foxsansbox
foxsansbox
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@dictep said:
Please, don’t cry killers for everything everyday. You won’t see a boil over in a week. I’m sure killers main here only have seen it in YouTube videos. In about 30 matches I didn’t see any boil over.
As long as there are map configurations where Boil Over makes hooking -impossible-, Boil Over will be a prominent perk choice.
This is not hard to understand. So don't lie.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
I'm up to 115 survivors I've bled out so far. Because of Boil Over/Flip Flop.
Soon, they'll be trained.
You're a man after my own heart. I may want both sides of the meta nerfed to make this game healthy, but I get a visceral pleasure from slugging someone who was clearly looking to make a Boil Over play.
######### I'm not going to fall for, for $500, Alex.
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@Gwinty said:
Okay, first of all thank you for clarifying that this thread is not for me. And this it not sarcasm, this is honest.
I will however ask you one question: What kind of meta do you want?
I get that you dislike second chance perks. However every time a new "strong" perk is implemented (Cycle of Healing, Boil Over, Shadowstep, Mettle of Men...) there are also complains even if those perks change the things you face. In order to overthrow the meta a new "most effective tactic available" has to be introduced after all.
So that's thing, imagine how much easier it WOULD be to balance the meta if everything wasn't based on over-tuned second chances? I know we all like a good power creep, but this is not it. There are a few perks/combos I really like, but there's no point in running them because at any given point the Killer might tunnel me or another survivor and once that happens I will need the top 6 to pull out the win:
- Detective's Hunch: I will die on this hill, the perk is FANTASTIC and one survivor should have it in every game. Whether you're just looking to come out with more items then you left with or if you want to make sure NOED and hexes get shut down, this perk does it all
- Alert: This is not an information perk. This is a loop perk. If you get a killer to kick the pallet on a high wall while you're LOS'd, they will never find you again. The extra 3 seconds or whatever of aura it shows you is more then enough to create a fake scratchmark trail and lose the killer for good
- Dark Sense: While Alert isn't an information perk, this one is and it's fantastic. If you're at the 3 stack on the map and you have this perk, sometimes it can be the difference between breaking that stack and not, especially if it tells you the killer is lollygagging on the other side of Mother's Dwelling
There are at least 15 perks that I feel provide a ton of value, just not as much as the meta, and that's incredibly depressing. If we gave up on the power creep and removed it completely, I think you'd immediately have a more entertaining and thoughtful experience in this game. Maybe there would be an imbalance, maybe killers would start doing too well. But here's the kicker:
That could now be balanced.
Edit: Maybe you could call it a #'s crunch, consistent with how WoW manages it's ever rising level cap or how DBZ handled it's galaxy destroying power levels. We need a crunch, we can't just keep going up and up infinitely.
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@RainehDaze said:
I think the main difference is that, aside from NOED, Survivors have a lot more ghost perks. i.e., until it's proven that they don't have it, a Killer has to assume a lot of perks are likely in play--because the cost of not assuming it is usually a lost hook/swing/chase. Hell, even Spine Chill gets in here--think how many Killers move around at an angle just because they don't want to maybe look at someone.
Most meta Killer perks can be checked for basically immediately or don't come into play until they get a hook. Or, in many cases, pop up a handy status notification.
But yeah, Boil Over just adds another one onto the pile. Maybe it'll happily go into being non-meta and people won't adapt to it because it's not necessary unless the other team is playing suspiciously. If they do...
You're absolutely right that spine chill belongs on the same list. But I'm not trying to make this us vs them, most of my games go really well for me because of how I play, I'm willing to see an entire perk overhaul if ghost perks go extinct as a result, on both sides.
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Solos will find uses for it just as much as bully squads do, until Killers put it on their no fly list and begin assuming the survivor has it if they went down in a suspicious spot.
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Are they using insidious or something? How are you not figuring out to use the other gate?
Do bones?
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@Mandy said:
Seeing as I don't have a bug report in on this, mind filling me in?
I saw the second blink bug brought up on the PTB forums. I don't know if it was ever acknowledged.
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@Brimp said:
thread gets closed in 3 2 1....
I'd love to see @MandyTalk 's response to this. But not about how it violates the Forum TOS or is in the wrong category, but how she feels being put in the position of defending the indefensible.
It would hurt my soul, I've been there.
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768987#Comment_2768987
Plague is not a 110 percent killer. She also has 2 fountains base kit. But I definitely don't think she's S tier. I will say if there's any killer that might be S tier that isn't currently considered S tier and that's Oni. And for that it comes down to, just how long can a competitive group of survivors keep an equally skilled Oni from getting any blood at all. From what I've seen in the most recent tourney, not long at all. 1 misplaced tile or even just 1 tile that's not close enough to another and the player takes a hit. An oni in their power is the most powerful killer in the game, I'd say stronger than Nurse easily.
You're absolutely right. My bad. But that doesn't change my opinion. She's still an M1 killer if they choose not to cleanse, what's more, because of how tall she is she is very easy to read. She is powerless after those 2 fountains (Which don't they require an addon?)
Oni sidenote: I'd love him if he WASN'T. SO. DAMNED. CLUNKY.
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@selflessnea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768909#Comment_2768909
I would still say a majority of the roster is viable. If playing one killer over another provides the possibility of 1 extra kill over the other wouldn't you pick them as well
Pretty sure that's a big no. Legion, Plague, Clown, Deathslinger, Myers, just to name a few are not only non-viable, they would be utterly stomped. These are killers that just have no way to compete against what hardcore SWFs bring to the table.
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@Ronin said:
!PLEASE KNOW THAT THIS IS MY OPINION, FEEL FREE TO DISAGREE!
My reasoning on why i believe she is an s is due to the fact she completely destroys the use of boon circle of healing, one of the most problematic/strongest perks currently in dead by daylight. Now you could say "what if they all clense" well then use her corrupt purge more then, easy solution, and besides, her corrupt purge is incredibly powerful on its own And if survivors don't clense then well its an incredibly easy to down. Last of all i know people are gonna say "she does not have the potential of nurse" or "she can't damage people across the map like the artist" but none of the killers that are considered S tier are able to make boon circle of healing completely useless, and if they clense then they are giving her a stronger power. Also, sorry if i have bad english, its my second language!
The argument isn't "What if they all cleanse?", it's really "What if none of them cleanse?"
And then what happens, Plague loses. Tall, 110% Killer with only M1. That is a recipe for complete and utter failure with how strong tilesets currently are.
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@fblurbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768980#Comment_2768980
I mean, I guess Spirit is fun if you want to turn your brain off and put zero thought into your gameplay. At that point though I'd just pick Nemesis or Plague.
Found the survivor who's been absolutely walloped by Spirit.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768412#Comment_2768412
So.... you're suggesting what?
Both players hide in a corner for 20 minutes and hope the Killer finds the other guy first?
You know this type of gameplay should not be encouraged right
I am suggesting that the example you provided is poor because at that point in the game there is no genuine opportunity for survivors to earn MMR regardless. You know, unless it's versus a Myers who is out of ammo or a deathslinger on Mothers Dwelling. Either way the last 2 would have to work together regardless.
The only play left is the hatch, which is null for the purposes of MMR. This is an asymmetrical game and the killer has assumed full control by this point.
MMR is about averaging, not highlighting lucky or unlucky edge cases.
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Attempting to do the final generator in a 1 v 2 is absolutely not a skilled play. Very few 2 v 1s have the coordination to pull that off and you're suggesting it should be attempted in soloQ.
At this point, the only thing that matters is if the killer wants to slug and get both of you or risk 1 getting hatch.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767647#Comment_2767647
I know on Tru's streams he's gotten multiple in a day more frequently lately. Of course he's always in perfect position to record and report them, but your average player doesn't have obs running while playing just in case they need to reactively record evidence of a hacker. Hell with how bad optimization is, some people can't even run any type of streaming or recording software or risk halving their framerate.
And the reporting system is absolutely awful, too. I get it, the whole thing is frustrating. But I am still skeptical of the grandiose claims people make when they don't reconcile with my personal experiences. Everyone says the higher your MMR the more hackers you get, but at this point I don't know how many teams I have to 4k as Nurse to start getting the same results other people are getting.
If people said the opposite, that low MMR is what's being abused because these accounts are getting reported and banned before they reach high MMR, then I could stomach it better, as all 3 hacker experiences I had were when I first started playing a killer and presumably my MMR was lower.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767650#Comment_2767650
Everyone does not like to play with Discord. What about us?
So is this case of play SWF or don't have fun?
All it comes down to is do you want to pick your team in the end or not?
When it comes to being on a good team, picking is half the battle and there's nothing else to parse here.
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@ObscurityDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767690#Comment_2767690
In a situation where your ruin stays à long time and you can défend it well?
Its over S tier as a time gain on gens
I run Lethal Pursuit on nurse and it still goes down like a hobo on a ham sandwich. The survivors ability to spawn on it, communicate it to the team, and then make sure it goes down has been ubiquitous in ALL of my games.
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He puts Hex Ruin up at S. In no way shape or form can I agree with this tier. It goes down in 20 seconds my last 8 games. I actually changed it out as a result.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767657#Comment_2767657
If only we had some kind of automatic ranking system that separated those who want to win from those who want to ruin the games, you know, like a system that would measure your skill and match you accordingly with other players of similar skill level, right? If only we had one...
We do, and SWF's have no problem climbing it. You can climb it in SoloQ too, but it is certainly more challenging.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767657#Comment_2767657
You make more punishments for people who intentionally throw games. Seems rather obvious to me.
Of course, I've been advocating for that in plenty of threads, threads I've seen you comment on. Go post that suggestion up to BHVR and see where it gets you.
There is real action the OP can take right now to vastly improve their experience. It makes no sense to die on the hill that is SoloQ. SWF is the apex predator of this game and he can easily join it if he is genuinely frustrated.
Edit: And to remind you: This is his last sentence, "So what can you do when your teammates are enemies more fearsome than the killer, other than leaving the game of course? Is it just the curse of soloQ that will never be lifted?"
I answered it with only his bests interest at heart.
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767647#Comment_2767647
I dont exactly have a vod in my back pocket but people have gone against cheater squads of 3 or 4 then face more later on. Especially now that there has been a list of streamers thats been revealed for cheaters to stream snipe.
Like I said, if someone whos me 6 cheaters in one day I'll gladly eat crow. I've seen one a day myself, sometimes, I've seen other people maybe encounter two. But most of the time what I see is streamers going "Holy cow, was that a hacker?" And then they review the video and the perks post game and find explanations for what occured.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767650#Comment_2767650
That doesn't mean Solo Q needs to be hell.
What a terrible argument.
How would you suggest fixing potatoes?
There are people who DO NOT WANT TO WIN. You cannot incentivize them, their reasons for playing are starkly different from yours and mine.
Also, dude, it's not an argument. It's the best suggestion I can think of for anyone who needs help with SoloQ. Feel free to put up better that you can do within your own power.
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@Junylar said:
Just had a game in soloQ. Started doing a gen with one Cheryl in the shack. Spine Chill goes off, so I go into a locker, while the clueless Cheryl remains on gen. It was Ghostface, he starts stalking her, and she doesn't see him. She gets exposed, runs towards my locker and tries to open it to show to killer I'm there, and then gets downed. Of course the killer doesn't ignore it and accepts the help from the opposite team, like a good sportsmanship-like champ, grabbing me. I guess you can't blame be for DCing here.
The worst part is that such ######### is not addressed by the devs in any way. The problem does not exist in their worldview. Those icons (that probably will eventually get cancelled because it's BHVR) won't do crap against soloQ teammates who only play to ruin other teammates fun. The report system is a post-ironical joke, which stopped being funny 4 years ago: no one is going to record dozens of GiB's of footage and pass the e-bureaucratic hell just for occasional reports which will be ignored anyway. The devs don't see any problem and are not even going to start "working on it™", because two ruling classes of DbD society (killers and SWFs) are not troubled by this. No one ever cares about the third estate of soloQ.
So what can you do when your teammates are enemies more fearsome than the killer, other than leaving the game of course? Is it just the curse of soloQ that will never be lifted?
Easy solution is go to the looking for group sections of Reddit, this Forum, and your consoles platform, and developing a relationship with people so you have people to play with that are as equally invested in winning as you.
It's a team game for survivors, I don't know what else to tell you.
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767419#Comment_2767419
I mean streamers have proof that they go against 6 cheater idk why you would need it from someone that claims to gone against 6 cheaters when you already know the cheating problem is so large.
Because hyperbole is a bigger problem, it slaps a disingenuous face on real issues and makes it difficult to problem solve or discuss rationally.
I've watched a few streamers, I've never seen one get 6 cheaters in a day. But I would accept that video too and would gladly eat crow if you have an example.
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Unpopular take: But after listening to the full Q&A, I understand why BHVR goes with kills versus no kills. The hockey analogy wasn't good, but they did succinctly explain why hooks wasn't a good metric in any scenario, and why looping for 5 gens in an isolated game isn't a good metric either.
I don't like the current MMR because it's currently not working (Game is matching me with complete potatoes, even when I'm on a very long win streak as killer), but if they fixed the issues it currently has, and implement team impacted MMR like they stated they're thinking of doing, I do think it would be the most accurate MMR they could pull off.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767565#Comment_2767565
So to address the points you've raised here:
Do I think they WILL be addressed? I said could. And stand by that. It is possible. Anything is possible. And if the community is vocal enough about something I do believe we well see changes to that aspect they were vocal about.
Because they're toxic vs. perceived to be toxic. Do I think they are toxic behaviours? Not in themselves, no. Do I think they CAN be used to be toxic? Yes. If I think of something as toxic or not is irrelevant. If enough people say something is toxic, even if it isnt, I could see the devs changing it. Just like I didnt think OG Freddy was OP but was changed because so many people complained he was.
I dont claim what I said as a fact that will 100% happen. I said it COULD. That was the point. There is the possibility.
Just out of curiosity, can you elaborate on your last section (before TLDR)? "I've only ever slugged-to-death survivors that were clearly being inappropriate. Same way I only T-Bag and EGC hostage against killers that do the same (Which to be clear, is not camping and tunneling.)"
What was "being inappropriate" as survivor? And what is inappropriate as killer that "is not camping and tunneling"? Just genuinly curious as to what you deem inappropriate (when chat isnt a factor).
Okay, that's a bit easier for me to unpack. I think the correlation without causation on this forums has long been entrenched to the point where too many people accept it as fact. The Spirt nerfs came about, and tons of people were complaining about her. But was the complaining on the forum the justification for the nerf?
The reality is she was STUPID STRONG. She could sit at a pallet and the survivor would have to suicide into her. It was honestly nuts. It is likely that OG Freddy was overperforming by BHVR's standards too (Remember, brought to you by the guys who believe Twins is currently overperforming). There is evidence that Deathslinger was over picked at red ranks and while there was complaints about him, they weren't nearly as prolific as complaints about Spirit, OG Freddy, or a myriad of other addressed issues. He should've easily flown under the radar.
But he didn't.
BHVR gets it wrong. A lot. But they're not using forum whining as a metric, nor are they using cry wolf complaints about toxicity. Edit: In fact, we've seen their representatives question the desires of this forum to over label things as toxic, including post game chat.
Inappropriate as a survivor: Intentionally sandbagging their teammates. I watched a survivor I previously hooked go AFK and then run up to me with a crow halo and start t-bagging waiting for me to get him out of the game, so I slugged him until he DC'd. If you're going to intentionally sabotage your teammates, you're eating the 4 minute slug or DC'ing. I will make certain of it.
T-Bagging and clicking are both valid ways to sensory obfuscate against killers. An argument can be made against flashlight macros. Especially when the survivor is clearly using it just to show he has one.
Inappropriate as a killer: Huntress picked a survivor, slugged them, and then spent the entire game throwing hatchets at their slugged body without attempting to win. We did every gen, got the person up repeatedly, body blocked for them and then twerked at the exit gate until the EGC collapsed because she refused to go after us. I do not know what her deal was. I consider it very hard for a killer to be inappropriate. If they're playing for their win there really isn't anything they can do that is toxic.
All bets are off once Post-game chat boots up.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767568#Comment_2767568
It will probably stay the same.
People use him because he gives guaranteed value at the cost of playing like a dick. Slap on NOED and Corrupt and you've got an easy 2K, if not more.
He's a perfectly good Killer. Easily top half of the roster and is completely viable, people just choose to do the easiest thing they can
I get where you're coming from, but I want to see it. :)
My suspicions are there is a measurable subset of killers that are just so tired of having their playstyle identity tore to shreds that they feel that's all they can do. I'm willing to bet we'd see players shift away from Bubba if they felt they had real options besides spending an absurd amount of time learning Nurse and Blight.
Deliberately not including Spirit in my response because I honestly have no clue how she deals with Iron Will SWFs, and I'm afraid I won't believe anyone that tells me because my personal experience as a survivor against her has been so damningly one sided.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767547#Comment_2767547
Maybe?
I think a lot of them just set out to ruin other people's experiences. A lot of people just started hitting the first guy they caught on hook, regardless of how many gens were done.
You have other viable options. Nurse, Spirit, Blight ect ect. Bubba is just extremely easy to get value out of.
I believe you had an incredibly negative experience with Nurse recently. I've got a ton of hours on her now, and I still encounter squads that have too much experience and hold the entire game hostage. I'm one of the most stubborn try-hards I have the pleasure of knowing and those experiences were so bad they made even me look to take breaks from this game.
Bubba is your entry level value killer. He deals in wholesale and his discounts are plentiful. But the way he is used is a symptom.
I would be very interested to see Bubba's pick/facecamp rate after M1 killers are given some breathing room.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767542#Comment_2767542
You know you could have just quoted instead of showing off your impressive Paint skills, right?
You seemed to have used Ctrl+F and just highlighted the sentences with the word "toxic". Maybe try reading what was written...
Where did I say I didnt mention toxicity? I clearly said that I was "not saying X or Y is toxic" (I quoted because I dont have your Paint skills) but have stressed, ad nauseam, that things perceived as toxic seemed to be getting addressed.
I'm not saying claims of toxicity themselves are what drives BHVRs decisions - I literally said that it was the vocal portion of the playerbase! I've said this dozens of times now! And if that vocal portion becomes vocal about "toxicity" - which they seem to have - then that COULD be looked at!
I've stressed that camping, tunneling and slugging in themselves ARE NOT TOXIC. Just like SmartFace cosmetic in itself isnt toxic. But people using those tools to be toxic that was the issue. Are racists not going to be racist because the cosmetic was removed? Of course not! Did people wear the SmartFace cosmetic and play farming matches? No. Did they combine the cosmetic with a playstyle that enabled them to target and harass a person? Yes. And dont even get me started on the chat logs associated with it.
OG Freddy. Was he OP? No. Was it the vocal portion of the playerbase that got him nerfed unjustifiably? Yes.
TLDR: I have no idea why you seem so offended by a post asking people to decent to one another (I notice you ignored that part).
I don't think quoting you has proved any more efficacious. Forgive me for getting creative.
IF you believe they're getting addressed because they're PERCEIVED as toxic, I disagree with you and I've demonstrated why in my previous response.
IF you believe they're getting addressed because they are toxic, I disagree with you and I've demonstrated why in previous responses.
You are drawing a zero evidence conclusion either way, it is all correlation, and it appears just about everyone except this new stalker I have has misunderstood you if you're really genuine about the whole "I didn't actually say it was toxic" spiel. It's the association that is incorrect in either scenario. Toxicity is not what is driving these potential changes. Nor is forum crying (Although both sides love to claim that's the case).
I ignored the part about you asking people to be nice to each other because it's common sense. I've only ever slugged-to-death survivors that were clearly being inappropriate. Same way I only T-Bag and EGC hostage against killers that do the same (Which to be clear, is not camping and tunneling.)
TLDR: I'm not offended, your arguments are bad.
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@N8dog said:
So i was watching the recent Q & A and one thing mentioned was that they would do is look into forum suggestions about long queue waits. Well I have an idea to make waiting a little more bearable. After waiting a certain amount of time you get awarded an amount of bloodpoints. After each subsequent minute after that you get more (but a significantly lower amount afterwards. With this in play patient players who wait to play their chosen role for a longer period of time will at least be given something for their investment. It's not going to prevent long waits but I think it will be easier and more accepted than games with bot killer/survivers. What do you all think?
This is one of the few 'Band-Aid' fixes I've seen proposed on the forums that I can stomach. But this post has it:
@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/306387/long-queue-suggestion
The answer to long queue times (which is almost always for survivors) is to incentivize more people to play killer. Right now the game is so imbalanced against killers at mid to high levels that few people are willing to take the abuse of playing killer. Either make quality of life changes to improve killer or at least rewards with more BP/shards to compensate for the abuse.
As long as half the killer roster is stuck playing wack-a-mole with twenty plus pallets fortifying already strong tilesets, we're going to have this issue.
But I'm absolutely for your band-aid fix. Who knows when we're going to see anything bettter.
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@Pulsar said:
I think he's fine in terms of strength, but his ability to basically force a 2K regardless of skill is an issue for me.
In 257 games, this is how the Bubba split has been
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/16K99ST277E1/count-of-killer-281-29.png
Do you think less people would be playing Bubba, face camping or otherwise, if they felt they had other viable options?
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767531#Comment_2767531
Again - you are either misinterpreting what I'm saying or deliberately misreading to fit a narrative.
I at no stage said the OG Freddy was toxic? I, again, was saying that a vocal portion of the playerbase complained enough to have him changed.
I am not saying X or Y is toxic. I am saying that the vocal portion of the community seems to be able to get things changed, regardless of statistics, by claiming that they are toxic.
Again, I think we're just going around in circles here. Lets just agree to disagree because neither of us are getting anything out of this at this point.
Buddy,
Your entire thread is about toxicity. OG Freddy does not compute here, anywhere. And the claims of toxicity are NOT what drive BHVR's decision making.
Even with Smartface, there is documented activity of players stalking and harassing specific players and streamers, it has nothing to do with the crying on the forum. It's based on actionable evidence.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767523#Comment_2767523
Literally the first thing I replied to you on this thread was:
"Are all instances of camping and tunneling toxic? No.
Are both of them tools used to harass people? Yes."
I'm not saying that doing X or Y is inherently toxic by themselves. I've said that numerous times now.
Same with the SmartFace mask not being inherently toxic by itself.
The whole point of this thread was that a lot of people are calling these valid strategies toxic. With enough uproar and feedback I can see BHVR adjusting them. Similar to OG Freddy. Was he too powerful? No. Did that stop people complaining and getting him destroyed before he even left the PTB? No. Did BHVR change him because he was "testing" a certain way? No. They changed him because too many people complained. And then we got a killer so weak he required a complete overhaul to be playable.
Again, neither of us are changing our views here. I think youre wrong. You think I'm wrong.
Can we just acknowledge that neither of us will agree with the other and move on?
Okay?
Thanks and goodbye.
You can move on whenever you want to, I'm not holding you hostage here.
Toxic people are not getting these TACTICS and PERKS banned for non-toxic players. Your warning that they're potentially ruining the game for us good players is ill-founded and short-sighted. You can nitpick it after the fact all you want. It doesn't change.
They complained that Freddy was toxic? Or that he was unfun, or too easy? Or too overrepresented? Again. You've been using the wrong word this entire thread. Toxic is not the word you're looking for.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767509#Comment_2767509
And once again, I've pointed out that BHVR are literally changing the game based on aspects that a large portion of the community has called toxic. Just because you dont view it as such doesnt mean that others do. I also dont view a lot of things as toxic but I am aware that others find them toxic.
You literally said that they could implement the changes I refer to 2 years time as if to insinuate that I said they would be immediate changes. Me having to clarify on YOUR points and then you trying to make it appear like I came up with it out of the blue is farcical!
You think I am wrong. I think you are wrong. Can we agree on that much? Can you stop now? Can you also stop trying to insult me in other thread too? That would be nice...
A large portion of the community cried about it being toxic, and that makes it toxic? And that also makes it why BHVR is nerfing it?
That's correlation without causation, sir.
The 2 years time was just some extra exposition. I'll give you a pass on not understanding that since you were so lenient about the sarcasm.
I know you're wrong. That's the difference. Just like any killer who says dead hard is toxic would be wrong. Valid tactics are not toxic. If Dead hard sees a nerf, it will be because BHVR believes it's overperforming or it's being chosen too much. If tunneling/camping sees a nerf, it will be because BHVR believes it's overperforming or being chosen too much.
These are not cosmetics.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767487#Comment_2767487
When did I say we'd ever see changes in the next day or week or month? I didnt. 2 years would still be early in DbD time.
Camping and tunneling have been a basic tool in the game since launch. Why would they be looking or even considering changing any of these now? Are they suddenly over performing?
SmartFace was a cosmetic for Bubba on release. Why did it take so long to be removed?
Again, I think we're just going around in circles here. Lets just agree to disagree, if you can even do that much, because neither of us are getting anything out of this at this point.
We're still not going around in circles. I've addressed that nothing you've said at any point in this thread indicates or even supports BHVR nerfing these tactics due to toxicity. You just make weird counterclaims like, "When did I say we'd ever see changes in the next day or week or month."
Even if the tactics aren't overperforming. They've become the norm. That's why BHVR is looking into it. Again, they don't consider it toxic, and toxic people aren't getting tactics nerfed for non-toxic people.
You can beg to agree to disagree all you want, you're just wrong.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767474#Comment_2767474
I can lead you to water but I cant make you
thinkdrink...I'm sure facecamping changes are because they were just too much fun for everyone involved... /s
And BT as basekit would be to reward killers who stay near the hook... All that makes perfect sense! /s
Again, I think we're just going around in circles here. You are not backing up your side with anything and ignoring what I say without addressing it in a meaningful way. Lets just agree to disagree because neither of us are getting anything out of this at this point.
Not fun does not equal toxic. Again.
BT basekit, again, the devs made no mention that they are considering it because they think camping or tunneling is toxic. Hell, they didn't even say they're considering it. They just said they're not not considering it. So we may see it in 2 years. And when we do, it won't be an attempt to address toxicity.
We're not going around in circles, you're twisting yourself into knots.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767433#Comment_2767433
1). Balance changes to Facecamping: Q&A Livestream 1/20/22 timestamp 45:45. This is in a prototype phase at the moment. This is literally a change where "the Devs decided they want to take away another killer strategy". Why? Because a lot of survivors complained that it was toxic and unfun.
2). BT being basekit? Q&A Livestream 1/20/22 timestamp 15:20. Asked would DS/BT be basekit they said DS is not planned to be made basekit. When asked to clarify they simply reiterated DS is not planned to be basekit. Peanuts himself said that the statement would be picked apart because of that!
3). BHVR have previously shown they will remove tools used to be toxic. This is seen with SmartFace. Did wearing the cosmetic make the palyer toxic? No. Could the player use it to be toxic? Yes.
As for your comments on flashlights and crouching. I could easily see them putting a cooldown on rapid clicks of either the FL or ctrl button.
Again, I think we're just going around in circles here. You are not backing up your side with anything and ignoring what I say without addressing it in a meaningful way. Lets just agree to disagree because neither of us are getting anything out of this at this point.
I gave you the benefit of a doubt and rewatched your timestamps
1) Where did they say it was toxic and unfun? Where did they say they were trying to outright take it away? Those are your words. And in fact, if you only used the word 'unfun', I'd of said great, you might be onto something there! But you didn't, from the get go your thread has been about toxicity. Lets not move the goalpost now.
2) And you're connecting this to toxicity how?
3) Smartface is not a perk, it is not a functional aspect of the game. It is a cosmetic. Borrowed time is a tool, Dead hard is a tool. You are creating a very loose definition to associate these facets of the game and it doesn't track.
As for my comments on flashlights and crouching. SURE, they could absolutely do that, but then guess what? Those tools would still function to the advantage of the player using them exactly as they were designed to. They wouldn't disappear. Non-toxic people wouldn't be punished.
Your entire premise is wrong.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767396#Comment_2767396
I get that you were trying to be amusing, but from the past few posts I've seen yes you do.
I didn't want to seem petty and bring it up because I was arguing with them on another similar thread, and it's not good taste to follow people around on the forums, even if it's unintentional.
Thank you.
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@BenZ0 said:
Had again a moment where I had 1 single hook in the entire shack area of torment creek.
After I sacrificed a survivor there I had nothing there left, I was forced to slugg all 3 survivor there since there where 2 gens almost done there so the survivors had to stay there, I dont blame them for that.
They eventually just dcd (2 of them) and the last one just let him kill himself on hook since they all got slugged. They ofc insulted me and my mother, which I dont really care about tbh.
However my point is I was forced to slug all of them because I literally had no hook anymore left, this situation was incredibly unfun for the survivors and also me, we also got barely any points out of this match.
There are maps with way worse hook spawns like Midwhich, Swamps or Red forests but tbh you can get on any map a stupid set of hook spawns.
This happens occasionally to me and also to others, hook spawns STILL are an issue which needs to be adressed. Since we are getting now fancy new scorched hook perks it would be time to start looking into that.
There are people who would have you believe that you're toxic and you should be letting them wiggle off.
But yes the maps are busted, and your solution is A+. Let the slugs wiggle on the ground.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767416#Comment_2767416
How is my stance wrong? I've layed out multiple points supporting my stance.
Your stance? Semantics. Once you have an actual argument I would be happy to derail it for you.
Again, I think we're just going around in circles here. Lets just agree to disagree because neither of us are getting anything out of this at this point.
My stance is common sense. Flashlights aren't going away because of click macros, crouching isn't going away because of tbagging. Tunneling isn't going away because of some killers using it as a BM tool. There is no evidence to draw such a ridiculous conclusion. Or to even wield that as some kind of forum warning to toxic killers. (Not like it would make them hesitate for 2 nanoseconds anyway)
I don't know why you need to agree to disagree if you keep making nonsense call outs of my responses and dismissing me. If you want to agree to disagree, you can just stop and it would be implied.
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@FriendlyBubba said:
It wasn't 1, 2 or 3, no, it was 6 cheaters today. 6 cheaters. I really don't know what to say here.
Do you have video proof? That's a big claim.
I'm not disputing that there's a cheating problem, but usually it comes without evidence when the claim is this large.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767406#Comment_2767406
You've repeatedly said you didnt understand my comments.
You asked if statements were "typoed".
You admitted to not understanding obvious sarcasm.
Clearly youre misunderstanding a lot.
Again, I think we're just going around in circles here. Lets just agree to disagree because neither of us are getting anything out of this at this point.
Yes you can bring those up again, and my concerns were still valid. Yet, those concerns have nothing to do with the fact that we are now crystal clear. Your stance is wrong.
BHVR will not nerf strats to address toxicity. Especially when the claim of toxicity is weak.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767380#Comment_2767380
Look, I think we're just going around in circles here. You say you dont understand a point I make, I try to make it as basic as possible for you to understand and then you criticize the analogy. I'm doing my best to help you keep up but it's obviously not happening.
Lets just agree to disagree because neither of us are getting anything out of this at this point...
I disagree with your entire premise, there is no misunderstanding there. Several people have responded saying the same thing. The devs will not ban strats to manage toxicity. Full stop.
@Xanqu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767380#Comment_2767380
Nah fam! It veeeerrrry obvi dat it was sarcasm! U just playin da fool and making you look dumb
Okay.
Edit: Fixed two typos so Xan wouldn't lose his mind.
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@Yatol said:
is there a way to be toxic in a way for them to remove strech res?
Asking the REAL questions here.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767315#Comment_2767315
Without confirmation or reliable leaks, all we can do is speculate?
Maybe I can put this in a way you can understand:
Police: Did you murder your wife and child?
Murderer: Well I didnt murder my child...
Police: But did you murder your wife?
Murderer: I didnt didnt murder my child...
Any better for you? Or are you still confused?
It's a horrible analogy. They were asked about two perks and they conveniently left one out. It doesn't mean they're actually considering making BT basekit, and it certainly would have nothing to do with punishing toxic players. Because again, these tactics aren't toxic.
@Xanqu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767315#Comment_2767315
Bruh. Is English ur first language? I aint tryna be mean or nuttin but u dont seem ta be understandin basic sentences here
Yes. I've explained to the OP why I don't understand their argument. They used sarcasm poorly (using sarcasm any time you have an actual point is a bad idea in a text-based forum), and what appeared to be the wrong words at the wrong time. They clarified, so what are you still on about?
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767276#Comment_2767276
"They've clearly solved racism by removing the SmartFace cosmetics". This was sarcasm. I thought it was clear and didnt need elaboration... I guess I was wrong on that one...
I dont think theyre on the rise solely due to CoH. I think its mainly due to MMR but can see CoH playing a small role too.
As for what the devs will or wont do, all we can do is speculate. That is literally what this post is regarding. The speculation of what actions we can see in the future. The fact that they went out of their way to avoid addressing BT becoming basekit (when asked for clarity) COULD be an indication. Again, not saying it definitively, but not saying its also not a possibility.
So the whole point was to speculate on something due to the absence of referencing something in a comment made by the devs who have a HORRIBLE track record of bringing anything they say to fruition?
Yikes. And you spoke with so much certainty in your thread opener too.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767165#Comment_2767165
What part do you think was a typo?
"Making BT basekit would not be an attempt toxicity"? How would the devs doing that be an attempt at toxicity? Surely it would be to elevate the complaints about camping and tunneling which seem to have increased...?
Again, as I've said prior, camping, tunneling and slugging themselves arent toxic. They are often the smart choice. What I've said is that they can be used as tools for toxicity. The entire point of this post was to point out that if toxic players keep using these valid tools to be toxic, they run the risk of having them removed for all of us.
Again, tunneling, camping and slugging are not by themselves toxic and are often the best thing to do in a given situation. Its players going out of their way to be toxic using these tools that are going to ruin these tools for all of us.
This is what you wrote:
"They've clearly solved racism by removing the SmartFace cosmetics from the game so clearly if they do make BT basekit now it cant be due to racism anymore? Whats left then?"
Either you worded it wrong or you did something else.
The complaints about tunneling and camping are a misnomer. Those tactics are on the rise because COH has singlehandedly removed the divide and conquer strat. Full stop. The devs can fix that easily by further adjusting COH.
Again, using legitimate strats to harass people will never result in those legitimate strats being curbed. They will only be curbed if the devs don't want them to be legitimate strats anymore. The devs ain't the brightest bunch this side of the gaming industry but they deserve more credit than you are giving them.
Smartface was just a cosmetic. It had no direct impact on gameplay. Removing it, improving the reporting system, punishing griefers more effectively, doesn't matter what they did because smartface isn't a strat. Your whole point is a false correlation.
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@hiken said:
the rest who did all gens are the skilled ones and will go up :(
If you evaluate yourself over the outcome of a single game, you're being completely disingenuous.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767143#Comment_2767143
which is why I said "could be" and not "will be"
They've clearly solved racism by removing the SmartFace cosmetics from the game so clearly if they do make BT basekit now it cant be due to racism anymore? Whats left then?
Your response makes me sad. I'm assuming you typoed. Making BT basekit would not be an attempt toxicity. If it DID happen, despite no evidence that it will, or anytime soon, or in it's current form, then it would happen because the Devs decided they want to take away another killer strategy. Not because they believe it's toxic. Literally the best streamers camp and tunnel when necessary to win their games, I have no clue why you're so desperate to brand it as toxic.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767126#Comment_2767126
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767127#Comment_2767127
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767129#Comment_2767129
Was everyone that used the SmartFace cosmetic a racist? No.
Are all instances of camping and tunneling toxic? No.
Are both of them tools used to harass people? Yes.
So now you're not speaking in hyperbole and more measured responses? Great, lets breakdown the nonsense of your assumption. Toxicity will not move the devs beyond anything clearly racist and gamebreaking.
- Flashlight macros
- EGC hostage holding
- Mass Slugging
Not even a modicum of activity from the devs for months and months.
So why do you think sanctioned activities like tunneling and camping are going to be nerfed? Also, in cased you missed the boat, they made no promise or indication of BT basekit, and when they did discuss it by absense of outright denying it, they didn't attribute it to toxic activity.