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What was the other nerf? The only one I see is her TR being slightly increased.Eninya said:Jesus f**k multiple nerfs. You should never be RELYING on Ambush anywhere, even at pallets. A good survivor will leave as soon as they realize you're attempting to use Ambush, and you just wasted your time as a result.
I mean, finally a buff to her blood point rewards, but that's not worth it for the nerfs she gets.
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Maybe, maybe not (I hope not). All I'm concerned with at the moment are that these are mostly good changes for the Pig (TR perhaps not).BadMrFrosty said:@TAG said:
BadMrFrosty said:My question is, what are the point of these changes? None of these help Pig become a viable killer nor do they fix the core problem with the character (a standard M1 killer with an RNG dependent power and a largely useless secondary - it's still useless). I feel like a couple interns just threw darts at a board with post-it notes on it with a random killer name/buffs they could receive. On top of all of this, they felt these changes were so good, that they even nerfed her TR? Really? Wow.
One thing people have been saying is that Combat Straps should be base kit; this is making it basically 70% base kit. That is, if nothing else, a step in the right direction. Same goes for making the TR disappear faster when crouching. TR being bigger is a minor nerf, but I think this was overall a net positive for the Pig.
Thing is, at the pace BVHR works, these are probably the only changes she'll get for the next couple months. Hell, I'm lowballing that, likely the whole year.
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One thing people have been saying is that Combat Straps should be base kit; this is making it basically 70% base kit. That is, if nothing else, a step in the right direction. Same goes for making the TR disappear faster when crouching. TR being bigger is a minor nerf, but I think this was overall a net positive for the Pig.BadMrFrosty said:My question is, what are the point of these changes? None of these help Pig become a viable killer nor do they fix the core problem with the character (a standard M1 killer with an RNG dependent power and a largely useless secondary - it's still useless). I feel like a couple interns just threw darts at a board with post-it notes on it with a random killer name/buffs they could receive. On top of all of this, they felt these changes were so good, that they even nerfed her TR? Really? Wow.
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Dev clarified that that was just people misunderstanding that line in the patch notes. It simply means that there is no limit to how many gens can simultaneously be affected by Surveillance (compared to how the limit is 3 in the current live version).Dreamnomad said:@ad19970 said:
@Dreamnomad said:
About the only real downside to this perk is that it completely outclasses Discordance.I wouldn't say that. You have to kick generators to get use of the perk, and Discordance also helps letting you know if you need to keep an eye out for multiple survivors or not if you find a survivor on a gen.
Maybe you missed the part where all generators start the game with surveillance in effect. That alone makes Surveillance infinitely better than Discordance.
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I meant in-game, not just from the patch notes.
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@Mc_Harty said:
ad19970 said:I'm surprised nobody is talking about the buff to her surveillance perk. That perk sounds like it'll be absolutely amazing. Or am I not getting something?
You still have to break the generators. It just now affects all of them instead of 3.
Yeah, but from the sound of it, it can now actually be used to tell when someone touches a generator because instead of just staying white for 16 seconds and then turning off, it stays white as long as it is regressing and then turns yellow (for up to 16 seconds, depending on the tier) when either someone touches the gen or the gen completely regresses back to zero progress.
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Can someone please show a screen cap of the description for the new Surveillance?
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@HellDescent said:
..NO. I WANNA DISCUSS WHY JIGSAW BOXES DON'T INSTANTLY EXPLODE AND KILL ALL SURVIVORS SIMULTANEOUSLY WHEN SOMEONE TRIES TO SEARCH ONE.
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OP is being disingenuous, but beyond that, vault spamming is barely anything to be concerned with, in my opinion.
I don't really think that comparison works for me. The equivalent in my book would be if they vault spammed to get the killer's attention, proceeded to get rekt by NOED as a result, and then got mad at the killer for using NOED.Peanits said:So the gates are open and instead of leaving, you decided the stick around and vault spam windows to waste the killer's time? I haven't reviewed that report yet so I can't say if it's bannable or not, but it's not exactly unreasonable for someone to report you for unsportsmanlike behaviour when you sticking around spamming vaults when you could have left. That's like touching the stove, realizing it's hot, and then getting upset with the stove. -
This thread seeme to me like "the game didn't go my way in this specific instance but it totally should have so let's change the game to fix that."
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Two instances come to mind:
1) This was not long after I started playing. I was Trapper, Exit Gate was open, and there were 3 Survivors still alive. I hooked one and placed a bear trap on each side. The other two Survivors snuck behind the other side of the wooden wall behind the hook, but I could see them through the cracks waiting for me to leave. Right before the hooked Survivor died on the hook, they both jumped out and went straight to the hook from opposite ends. *snap* *snap*
2) The 'ol classic for me. Survivor with unpopped Decisive Strike makes it to the open exit gate but is downed JUUUUST short of the finish line. I slap a Reverse Bear Trap on their head and dribble them back into the trial. Immediate disconnect. -
Not even remotely close to problematic IMO.
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Reposting from another thread:
@TAG said:
Fat Survivor Build:Decisive Strike - The first time the Killer tries to pick you up, they are caught off guard by your weight and accidentally drop you. Sometimes they'll be able to pick you up and carry you a bit before they get too tired and gotta drop you for a bit. If the hook is close enough, they might carry you a little at a time, stopping every now and again to catch their breath.
Deliverance + Breakdown - Killer tries to hook you, but your sheer fatness causes the hook to break under your weight. Lay off the Hot Pockets, for heaven's sake.
Dead Hard - When running away from the Killer, you try to Sprint Burst, but you're too out of shape and can only take, like, two extra steps before you become Exhausted.
Until we get DBD's equivalent of Wario as a Survivor. :P
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Fat Survivor Build:
Decisive Strike - The first time the Killer tries to pick you up, they are caught off guard by your weight and accidentally drop you. Sometimes they'll be able to pick you up and carry you a bit before they get too tired and gotta drop you for a bit. If the hook is close enough, they might carry you a little at a time, stopping every now and again to catch their breath.
Deliverance + Breakdown - Killer tries to hook you, but your sheer fatness causes the hook to break under your weight. Lay off the Hot Pockets, for heaven's sake.
Dead Hard - When running away from the Killer, you try to Sprint Burst, but you're too out of shape and can only take, like, two extra steps before you become Exhausted. -
If you want my honest opinion, I think the idea as you have currently presented is good enough as an addition to the game (not because it deals with gen rushing, though), and a solution to deal with gen rushing should be approached from a different angle. What that angle is, I unfortunately don't know.Entità said:@NoShinyPony Thank you for your support!
@TAG What else? I'm open to proposals.
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I like the idea, but I do not think it would be enough in terms of dealing with gen rushing. Not even cakes and streamers would be enough to make a real impact IMO.Entità said:
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Casino Pig
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When was that a thing?Iceman said:I miss where you couldn’t leave the match until all survivors had the RBT off their head. -
2 Gallon and 3 Gallon Jug are interesting, but 5 Gallon might be excessive. Throw a Tampered Timer or a Crate of Gears on them, and I don't think you would have to spend a terribly long time defending the last box to force the trap to go off. (I'd also reword them as "Survivors caught in a Reverse Bear Trap must search at least X boxes to remove it." with X being 2 for the 2, 3 , and 4 for the respective jugs.). I'd be cool with having the 2 and 3 Gallon Jugs and maybe bumping the 3 Gallon Jug up a rarity.
As for the Sedative Needles, I know that the Ambush really struggles at being terribly effective outside of very specific points, but I worry anything beyond the Light Sedative Needle would make the Ambush too good at sneaking up on people at gens (or Hooks?). Like, consider that the Clown's gas only hinders them while in the cloud and two seconds after leaving it (even with the Flask of Bleach), the Huntress is only 110% speed, and the Waterlogged Shoe only hinders as long as someone is standing by the mud marks (and the Hag with the Waterlogged Shoe still isn't at 115% speed), having a full minute+ of chasing someone who is slowed down a fair bit at normal killer speed seems impossible for the Survivor to get out of. I worry even 30 seconds of just slight Hindered would be too lopsided against the Survivor. Also, I don't think permanently shutting off the Jigsaw Box auras for Survivors should be done without some trade-offs.
I don't have much of an opinion on the Myers add-ons, but it seems SUPER weird to directly reference disconnecting on an add-on, perk, etc. and intentionally incorporate it into a game mechanic somehow.
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I like Rules Set No. 2 and Combat Straps being base kit, but I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of making Annotated Plan base kit as well (even if I do use it myself in tandem with Last Will). Something about raising the default timer even higher just doesn't sit right with me, even if you add an extra box to compensate (not that I would suggest making Jigsaw's Sketch base kit, since that'd be dumb IMO). Plus, it means the Tampered Timer + Sketch combo would mean you have to search 6 boxes in 2:30, which could be a bit much. I think Rules Set No. 2 and Combat Straps are enough to be made into base kit, but if you had to add something else, I would personally vouch for Last Will.
As far as the Hatch thing, I reaaaaally want the RBTs to snap on the Hatch (at least, assuming they don't end up making improvements to the Hatch gameplay or just do away with it entirely by revamping the end game), but having thought about it some, I think to do that, there should be some adjustments to help a Survivor wearing an RBT still have a fair (in my opinion) chance of making the hatch. If you're going to go that route, I'd personally suggest the following modifications to RBTs:
1) Time to search a Jigsaw Box is reduced by half while there is only one Survivor remaining in the trial.
2) While is only one Survivor remaining in the trial, Good skill checks count as great skill checks while searching a Jigsaw Box.
3) Bag of Gears and Crate of Gears don't function while there is only one Survivor remaining in the trial (basically would be written as "Slightly/Considerably increases the time it takes Survivors to search a Jigsaw Box. Does not apply if there is only one Survivor remaining in the trial.").I have no idea if this would be balanced, but if this ends up making it too easy for someone to escape through the Exit Gates while there's only one person left, the aforementioned adjustments to the RBTs could only apply as long as there is one Survivor left and the Exit Gates aren't powered.
Beyond that, I think the main issue of Amanda lies in too many of her add-ons being underpowered. A good number of them need some buffs/reworks so that Amanda isn't overly reliant on the same few add-ons every time.
@Chi said:
Heads would be popping constantly, and that is not the goal of the reverse bear traps in game.I understand that the RBTs are meant to be a time waster/stalling mechanic first and a way of killing people second, but it's still pretty funny knowing that the death trap was designed not to be good at killing.
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As a Pig main, I'd like this to make ambush attacks better, but from a more objective viewpoint, I'm not sure how I feel about another class encroaching into the Legion's territory like that.
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To be fair, Hillbilly and Leatherface are both in the game.Mushwin said:The Trapper basically is Jason.
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Gonna try some names:
Killer 1) "Mark of the Damned"
Killer 2) "Make an Example"
Killer 3) "Sinister Sabotage" (no relation to Dimir :P)
Survivor 1) "Pick Up the Pace"
Survivor 2) "Not Without a Fight"
Also that first Killer perk would probably be played with Make Your Choice 100% of the time.
EDIT: NECROPOOOOOOST. Oh well, too late now. -
Help me get better as Pig.EntityDispleased said:Pig is stupid strong and is extremely underrated. -
Shotgun collar cosmetics for all non-licensed Survivors!
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Because this is an optional thing (I assume), people/teams who are deadset on going straight for the gens can just continue to do so anyways, so this doesn't really change anything in that regard. That being said, this is still an interesting idea in spite of that issue that I wouldn't mind seeing.
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At this point, I want bug fixes. Some buffs/reworks for Pig add-ons would be nice too.
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Opinions tend to have reasons behind them to support them, no?Fnatic47 said:TAG@ You don t need evidence from nobody bro, if you feel the Nurse is the strongest killer in the game feel free to say it laugh and clear.. But you can t denied there is only between 20% 25% players playing has Nurse. And 1 more time, opinions is opinions men :chuffed:
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Wouldn't the solution then be to buff add-ons?
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I felt like I was going in almost perkless. I pulled off MYC maybe once when I was chasing who I thought was the rescuer, only to lose them and then inadvertently hit the actual rescuer by coincidence with maybe two seconds left on MYC.PigMainBigBrain said:@Eninya said:
Both gen-watching perks are useless.Surveillance should allow you to get an aura read when the generator is worked on and allow you to better defend against cross-map generators when down to 3. THEN it would actually be useful. Currently, it offers no benefit whatsoever, especially in the context of the Pig. It should've been what Tinkerer is now.
Good luck on Adept Pig.
I ended up getting adept, but it was basically like going into the game with 2 perks only. I was sweaty as [BAD WORD]!
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That's what add-ons are for.
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It's specifically when both sides want the Hatch but neither are willing to make a move. Survivor does not want to try jumping in because the Killer can grab them, and Killer does not want to attack the Survivor because the Survivor can jump in during the wiping animation. By acting first, both players risk losing the Hatch, so they wait for the other person to act first so they can attempt to capitalize on it.Rebel_Raven said:
Oh, do explain!DwightsLifeMatters said:
I advice you too look up what a real hatch standoff is lolRebel_Raven said:
It wouldn't really fix the hatch stand off. Survivors can crawl through the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade.TAG said:Until the end game is properly fixed, I'm gonna vouch for giving the Survivor Exposed while the hatch is open while also taking away the Killer's ability to grab someone out of the hatch as a band-aid fix to deal with stand-off.
Pretty sure it's when the killer is camping the hatch and the survivor wants in. -
Yes, I do. If both Killer and Survivor reach the hatch, Survivor has every reason to make a run for the hatch instead of just wait, and Killer has every reason to hit them before they get too close instead of just wait.Rebel_Raven said:
It's entirely effective to play chicken still, though. Killer hits and downs a survivor. Survivor uses hatch while killer is still wiping their blade.I do not see any real higher chance of success.
Do you feel like the time it takes for all that to happen is any better with exposed? -
Is that so? Wellllll, that is a load off my back. I guess I did get the achievement. In that case, the Adept Killer achievements need to be re-worded to "In a public match, let no one survive as the __________ using only his/her/their 3 unique perks."JawsIsTheNextKiller said:You don't have to earn merciless killer, you just have to get the "no-one survived" bonus. It is poor wording on the achievements.
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If the Survivor becomes exposed while the Hatch is open, just playing Chicken no longer is effective because the Killer making the first move now has a higher chance of succeeding. The Survivor now needs to either chance making it right up to the Hatch and going for it or run off and lure the Killer away with a generator; just playing the waiting game doesn't work for either side becuase now both sides are incentivized to act first if they don't want to lose the Hatch instead of second like it currently is.Rebel_Raven said:
You would think so, but why when it's easier to just get hit, and get the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade? It doesn't matter how long it takes, it's just easier.TAG said:
In that case, the Survivor is incentivized to leave and do a gen, and the Killer is incentivized to chase because they can down in one hit, but by doing so, the risk of losing the hatch is greater. It's easier for one or the other to lose the hatch battle.Rebel_Raven said:
That's not really a standoff if the survivor is far enough away to be lunged at, hit, and can't get the hatch by crawling.TAG said:
The exposed status allows the killer to make a dash for the nearby survivor to down them just far enough that they won't make it in.Rebel_Raven said:
A hatch standoff generally requires the killer standing on, or near the hatch and the survivor being near by as well.TAG said:
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.
The survivor won't try for it to get grabbed.
The killer won't hit to give the window of opportunity for the survivor to jump in.
The exposed status won't really fox anything with both people being right there next to the hatch.
The lack of grab makes it so if the Survivor gets close enough, they basically get the hatch even if they are downed.
Both Survivor and Killer are incentivized to act first because acting second realistically means the other succeeds. Hence dealing with stand-off.
The hatch stand off is when survivor cannot jump in to the hatch because the killer is standing on it, and just that. The survivor doesn't clip through.
Basically the killer is blocking the hatch access. The only way a survivor can make it through is if the killer moves, or attacks. If they do neither the survivor is SOL.
That is a hatch standoff.
If usually happens withing 2 or 3 meters from the hatch.
More than enough slack for a downed survivor to get the hatch.
I mean the option to leave and do gens for what ever reason exists now, but in my experience people rarely take it.
I've watched a lot of hatch standoffs on youtube, and in reality haven't given that much a damn if they get it or not. -
I wish I could use that fourth slot for whatever I want. Or even for just a Neutral Perk. Being stuck with Make Your Choice, Hangman's Trick, and Surfreakinveillance is brutal. It basically feels like you're going it perkless. The worst part is that the game glitched and I got the achievement anyways despite only hitting Ruthless Killer. Not really the same if I don't properly earn it.
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In that case, the Survivor is incentivized to leave and do a gen, and the Killer is incentivized to chase because they can down in one hit, but by doing so, the risk of losing the hatch is greater. It's easier for one or the other to lose the hatch battle.Rebel_Raven said:
That's not really a standoff if the survivor is far enough away to be lunged at, hit, and can't get the hatch by crawling.TAG said:
The exposed status allows the killer to make a dash for the nearby survivor to down them just far enough that they won't make it in.Rebel_Raven said:
A hatch standoff generally requires the killer standing on, or near the hatch and the survivor being near by as well.TAG said:
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.
The survivor won't try for it to get grabbed.
The killer won't hit to give the window of opportunity for the survivor to jump in.
The exposed status won't really fox anything with both people being right there next to the hatch.
The lack of grab makes it so if the Survivor gets close enough, they basically get the hatch even if they are downed.
Both Survivor and Killer are incentivized to act first because acting second realistically means the other succeeds. Hence dealing with stand-off.
The hatch stand off is when survivor cannot jump in to the hatch because the killer is standing on it, and just that. The survivor doesn't clip through.
Basically the killer is blocking the hatch access. The only way a survivor can make it through is if the killer moves, or attacks. If they do neither the survivor is SOL.
That is a hatch standoff.
If usually happens withing 2 or 3 meters from the hatch.
More than enough slack for a downed survivor to get the hatch. -
The exposed status allows the killer to make a dash for the nearby survivor to down them just far enough that they won't make it in.Rebel_Raven said:
A hatch standoff generally requires the killer standing on, or near the hatch and the survivor being near by as well.TAG said:
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.
The survivor won't try for it to get grabbed.
The killer won't hit to give the window of opportunity for the survivor to jump in.
The exposed status won't really fox anything with both people being right there next to the hatch.
The lack of grab makes it so if the Survivor gets close enough, they basically get the hatch even if they are downed.
Both Survivor and Killer are incentivized to act first because acting second realistically means the other succeeds. Hence dealing with stand-off. -
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other. -
Not if the Killer hits the Survivor before they get too close. At that point, it's not a stand-off so much as a race to the Hatch.Rebel_Raven said:
It wouldn't really fix the hatch stand off. Survivors can crawl through the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade.TAG said:Until the end game is properly fixed, I'm gonna vouch for giving the Survivor Exposed while the hatch is open while also taking away the Killer's ability to grab someone out of the hatch as a band-aid fix to deal with stand-off. -
Until the end game is properly fixed, I'm gonna vouch for giving the Survivor Exposed while the hatch is open while also taking away the Killer's ability to grab someone out of the hatch as a band-aid fix to deal with stand-off.
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@Rebel_Raven said:
To be fair Legion's gen perk is kinda useless, too. Had survivors go 2 on a gen to bait me, then they split just as I arrived, then the other 2 started working on a gen across the map.
In other words survivors that are coordinated can abuse the perk.Discordance can still be used if Survivors don't play around it. Surveillance hinders itself by giving itself a short enough timer that unless your eyes are completely fixated on the tagged gen (not gens because good luck getting more than one tagged within 16 seconds) for a full 16 seconds, you won't know for sure if the white aura went away because the timer expired or because someone ran up to it. And even then, if someone starts working on the gen right before or after the timer expires, it's STILL not clear what caused the aura to vanish. And that's assuming your eyes are glued to the dang thing, which is just wasting your time that could be spent doing other stuff.
There's a VERY real argument to be made that Surveillance is the single worst perk in the entire game.
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If you don't like playing Nurse, that is understandable. If you disagree with the idea that Nurse is strong, I'd need to hear some compelling evidence to agree with that.Fnatic47 said:TAG@ Its opinions. I played has Nurse on PS4 and PC and i didn t felt it alot stronger.. I am 80% Killer player and i prefere to play more with the worst killer in the game the Legion than the Nurse to be honest
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Why not? What don't you like about her speed and power? I'm a terrible nurse (playing on PS4 doesn't help) and I acknowledge her as undisputably the strongest killer in the game.Fnatic47 said:Well i don t agree with that about the Nurse be "the strongest killer in the game" but i respect your opinion bro ^-^
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Video games are more than just a set of mechanics. Otherwise, the whole Magneto comment for MvCI wouldn't have sparked such a massive backlash.doggieman said:I think you guys are looking too much into this. Moris are suppose to be used to easily get rid of a survivor from the game. The animation shouldn't really matter as long as the job gets done.
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Realism mode - Wraith can't cloak, Nurse can't blink or float, Hag can't teleport, Doctor isn't a walking fuse box, Huntress needs a more convenient way to carry dem hatchets, Freddy doesn't exist, Clown needs to spend an hour making a bottle of gas, Spirit doesn't exist, and Legion plays all at once.
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@Aladeen said:
Ok guys, it's sad that I got attention in december but still. It was just like this: With Patch 1.5.0, those Perks got augmented/decreased by one rarity respectively to fix an error in Perk distribution introduced in Patch 1.4.1, which caused the Bloodweb to spawn Perks in order of rarity, making it near impossible to obtain Tier II and Tier III Perks unless you unlocked all lower Tier ones first. So Devs couldn't fix it I think so they rather removed common (brown) and ultra rare (pink) perks, which is bad I think. It was more colored and players could feel that they're making bigger progress within their perks.That hardly sounds like an issue worth fixing, even if this was a band-aid fix to begin with.
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No. I tried him once or twice but did not like him.Speshul_Kitten said:
Except you can’t counter it. Do you play Legion at all??TAG said:
Oh. So, like, every other Killer?Speshul_Kitten said:Hits as in frenzy hits -
Let's get stupid:
Speed Unlimiter
Ultra Rare Chainsaw Add-On
NO BRAKES RAAAAAGHJDSKLJFAOOAIJFDSAOIJASDLKF-Chainsaw does not automatically trigger the Dying State.
-Tremendously decreases the Chainsaw's charge time.
-Tremendously increases the Chainsaw's Movement Speed.
-Tremendously reduces the time penalty when bumping into objects.
-Tremendously decreases steering while using the Chainsaw.
-Tremendously increases the Chainsaw's cooldown when hitting a Survivor.
-Tremendously increases the noise made by the Chainsaw."Rollin' around at the speed of sound..." -Thompson Family Motto
Tremendous.
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What is the right build, out of curiosity? I've never had a chance to use the Black Box.thesuicidefox said:
Black Box is very strong, but only works if you have the right build. And it has no use outside the start of the trial. I wouldn't say it's useless, more that it's just a very particular and specific use at which it excels greatly.
