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I think this an important thing that needs to me emphasized. Just for clarification, I'm a bad player and am not gonna be able to offer much (if any) input on whether the super optimized SWF team is too unbeatable or w/e. Just a majority of players is not capable of taking advantage of something potentially unbalanced to its fullest extent does not mean that the potentially unbalanced thing should not be looked at. If it is a strategy is genuinely unbalanced, I don't think the difficulty of said strategy or the frequency of said strategy should be able to singlehandedly prevent balancing things to keep things in better check.weirdkid5 said:Not every Survivor plays this way, but any game that takes its balance seriously always balances the game around the top-level players, because they are the ones that can abuse the systems the most.
Good example from outside of DBD: Krark-Clan Ironworks from Magic: The Gathering. A centerpiece to a deck in the Modern format that was apparently VERY difficult to pilot well and as a result wasn't exactly everywhere in the metagame. But in the hands of people who were able to pilot it properly, the KCI deck put up extremely good results and as a result was over time dominating the competitive field despite apparently being relatively tame as far as actual presence in numbers.
Rather than just deciding that things were fine because its difficulty resulted in limited numbers of people playing it, the people behind the card game looked at its viability over a lengthy period of time to see just how balanced it was and how potentially detrimental it was to the game. The end result was them determining that despite being not too big in presence, the success rate it had at the higher levels of play far eclipsed the competition with no sign of that stopping anytime soon. And as such, they made the announcement yesterday that the card in question was banned from the format.
Maybe super optimized SWF teams are OP, maybe not. Again, not good enough to really offer much on that debate. The main thing I can say is that while it can certainly be a factor, I don't think the small presence of something potentially overpowered should alone be enough reason to dismiss it as a non-issue, and I think taking care of a problem (assuming it is deemed a problem) while it is not widespread is a valid way to go about things. -
Sure, why not? :Pjus_Ignant said:@TAG said:
I generally take "couple of" to mean "few". For "two," I'd lean more towards using "a pair"."A pair" of weeks?
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I generally take "couple of" to mean "few". For "two," I'd lean more towards using "a pair".ModernFable said:
Perhaps I’m mistaken in assuming that most people view “couple” as 2.Peanits said:
To quote it directly, "We will share more details about the upcoming Moonrise event in the next couple of weeks."ModernFable said:@not_Queen post said we’d receive info within the next 2 weeks.
Today is the last day of the “2 week period”, so we’ll either hear about it today or it’s probably gonna be delayed.
So not strictly two. But seeing as how the event itself is starting at the end of the month, and that it would be silly to reveal details after the event starts, you can expect news on it soon.
Either way, I’m more interested in whether we’ll get 2.5.0 today rather than some event. I don’t believe we’ve heard anything in regards to dates on that. -
Technically a necropost, but I still wanna comment.
Gotta admit, this seems pretty cool. Idk if too good or too bad, but I like it. The two sticking points I have are with the Passive slowing down Survivors and with the logistics involved in rewinding a Survivor's position. The slowdown thing basically gives him 4.6 and then 4.8 speed in a chase and then more (which can be relevant since you can still be in a chase after smacking someone and presumably after dialing back time). I think at 110% speed, you could drop the slowdown thing and maybe fiddle with the amount of time needed to chase for balance.
As for the logistics of the rewind, my question is what happens if time rewinds in such a way that, say, the Survivor ends up overlapping into the Killer or into a pallet (I'm guessing if the Survivor was off the hook for less then 6 seconds, the Survivor goes back to the hook without getting back on). Obviously just having them clip into the pallet/Killer is a no-no. Would they take damage because of time anomalies? Would time re-wind a little less so that doesn't happen? That needs to be figured out to make that work. Also, just make sure that it doesn't become too easy to essentially guarantee a hit by re-winding them right in front of you or somethijg? Idk if that would br an issue. -
Not my point. My point is that there's a double standard in their reasoning.doggieman said:@TAG said:
@doggieman said:
@HatCreature said:
I was watching Tru3Talent and his match must have had 4 stacks of Huntress Lullaby and when he want to a Jigsaw Box it wasn't effected. Why not? This is the only reason I use that totem on her and now I know it's been useless this whole time.
It's at 7:37Because otherwise if it did work on jigsaw boxes it would mean certain death because it would be almost impossible to take it off. The other option would be to look for the totem but with the reverse bear traps you might not have enough time.
Then something has to change for the sake of consistency. You can't just say "Oh, Nurse's Calling no longer works with Doc's power because we want to be consistent with what's considered healing." and then have a perk that screws with skill checks EXCEPT for one.
Nurses calling doesn't lead to certain death.
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"Alright, I rarely play Survivor, so let's give it a go!"
loads in
I'm the only Survivor who made it to the start of the trial
"Welp."
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@doggieman said:
@HatCreature said:
I was watching Tru3Talent and his match must have had 4 stacks of Huntress Lullaby and when he want to a Jigsaw Box it wasn't effected. Why not? This is the only reason I use that totem on her and now I know it's been useless this whole time.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAwxPxQQvFc It's at 7:37Because otherwise if it did work on jigsaw boxes it would mean certain death because it would be almost impossible to take it off. The other option would be to look for the totem but with the reverse bear traps you might not have enough time.
Then something has to change for the sake of consistency. You can't just say "Oh, Nurse's Calling no longer works with Doc's power because we want to be consistent with what's considered healing." and then have a perk that screws with skill checks EXCEPT for one.
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If I had to guess based on my experiences, probably Quentin.
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Anyways, I vote Frank West.
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I find that strange, considering neither Left 4 Dead game is PC-exclusive. Maybe they didn't want Bill on PS4 since L4D wasn't on a Sony console and just decided to leave out Xbox as well to be fair?JoyfulLeader said:@yes said:
Why can't they add Bill to console?Because Valve (The development team responsible for the rights of Left 4 Dead) wanted Bill to be Steam exclusive.
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That sucks, since the point of that (I imagine) was to try to combat lobbydodging.Vietfox said:
Yeah apparently now survivors spawn at the same time, but even if they dont they still get lobbydodged. Hilarious.@TAG said:I thought they implemented a matchmaking system thing that made it much harder to detect SWF or something? -
I thought they implemented a matchmaking system thing that made it much harder to detect SWF or something?
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I believe DCs can still count? If memory serves, someone DCed in the trial where I got one of the Adept achievements.
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I actually like the idea of someone's stalk juice refilling by Myers stalking someone else.Peanits said:I'm okay with it because that's the only thing stopping that one guy who always stands there and lets Myers stalk them from giving the killer a basically infinite T3. Though I would be okay with stalk juice refilling as you stalk others so there isn't a hard limit, but stalking just one person won't work. -
Maybe the Trunchbull can be the unused Smasher killer we never got. :P Her mori can be grabbing a person and flinging them over the exit gate, killing them on impact.
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So they made Doc's Snap Out of it unaffected by Nurse's Calling for consistency's sake. Okay, that's understandable.
Hex: Huntress's Lullaby does not function with Jigsaw Boxes. Huh? -
Idk about you guys, but I like this idea, personally. As long as it's still possible to identify/report players who break the rules in some manner.
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I think I'm the wrong person to ask about the numbers for a percentage-based system because I'm not a fan of that system in general.AntiJelly said:@TAG @HatCreature @NoShinyPony
I've created a new algorithm and written in some more specifics. Tell me what you think!
I'd be on board with any one of the following ideas:
1) Rules Set No. 2 base kit
2) First box is auto-fail; upon searching the first box, the key is randomly placed into one of the three remaining boxes
3) Timer auto-starts as soon as the the trap is placed instead of as soon as a gen is finished (with the timer pausing while being chased, downed, or hooked, ofc). -
I personally want access to every single perk I can currently obtain (even the ones I'd never see myself using because I'm like that) 'cause I'm just like that. I'm not gonna worry too much about going out of my way to get all the teachable perks; I'll just get them as I get them.
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Nope. The only thing that would make me end the game prematurely are a bug/exploit that prevents it from ending or an IRL circumstance that prevents me from finishing the game.
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I think I'm the wrong person to ask about the numbers for a percentage-based system because I'm not a fan of that system in general.AntiJelly said:@TAG @HatCreature @NoShinyPony
I've created a new algorithm and written in some more specifics. Tell me what you think!
Any one of the ideas among the following I'd be on board with:
1) Rules Set No. 2 base kit
2) First box is auto-fail; upon searching the first box, the key is randomly placed into one of the three remaining boxes
3) Timer auto-starts as soon as the the trap is placed instead of as soon as a gen is finished (with the timer pausing while being chased, downed, or hooked, ofc). -
I just don't really like the idea of the "link" thing being introduced via a random add-on. Idk.KingB said:@TAG Obsession only applies to one survivor, becoming "linked" would apply up to 2 per match. Obsession could not work. Tunneling would be a problem but I addressed that issue here:-The survivors will get a HUD indicator of who's trapper and linked with who, the killer will not.
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Favorite: I actually like Haddonfield. Cool little map.
Least Favorite: Rotten Fields. Me no likey corn. I guess I'm not big on Thompson House either. -
@AntiJelly said:
@TAG said:
1) What happens if the linked Survivor dies?
2) Still not on board with the percentage thing for Jigsaw Boxes, and especially not with those numbers. Almost 70% chance of the key being in the last box is ridiculous. Also, consider what would happen with Amanda's Letter if there were only two boxes, and no matter which one you chose, you only had a 5% chance of getting the trap off.- Forgot about that. I'd just say the trap is deactivated.
- If you would care to read,
@AntiJelly said:
No matter what, the final Jigsaw Box will have a 100% chance of finding the key, trumping the algorithm.
You misunderstand what I say. I'm saying that between the 4 boxes, with the numbers that you have posted, there is almost a 70% chance that you have to search all four boxes to find the key. That is ridiculously in favor of the Killer and would make it too easy to force the trap snaps way too consistently.
@thesuicidefox said:
@AntiJelly said:
@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
Right. Bad killers asking for handouts. The "objective" that the Pig provides with the RBTs is so miniscule, it has hardly any effect on the game at all. I'm not making this to KILL more people, I'm making it so it wastes more people's time. Something about the way you responded makes me think you didn't read the entire post.
It wastes time, and is based on RNG. Sometimes that can mean 30 seconds, sometimes that can mean a full 2 minutes. If you want more time wasted then use add-ons. Or pressure the guy the with trap and at least push them away from boxes. I can't tell you how many times I see a Pig just spam traps then hook you right next to a box and NEVER come back to pressure you. Know what I do? I space out my traps. I don't use the first one until either a gen or my Ruin pops, unless it's an obsession. Then I wait for the next gen to pop before using another trap. I save one for end game so I can proc my Blood Warden. If you space them out and use them at the right time they can help you waste time. Again, it's RNG, so the benefit you get varies. But for every time someone gets their trap off at the first box I guarantee there is someone that has to search at least 3 boxes to get their trap off. But you never realize this because you are too focused on the guy that got it off immediately.
Plus Pig's ambush already got a buff on PTB. RBT doesn't need a buff. RBT is just fine the way it is. Stop asking for buffs. It's sad.
The low end of the RNG is really low and super feel-bad for the Killer. The range in RNG results is simply too wide. That needs to be adjusted in some manner. Not to the extent that OP is saying, but it does.
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@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
Nah, she could definitely use a few buffs. Not these buffs, but some buffs.
Still haven't explained what makes RSN2 + Timer + Crate/Sketch a worse situation for a Survivor than just the latter two with the gen popping while on the hook.
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Does this mean that the Fat Survivor build would actually be possible with Clown?
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1) What happens if the linked Survivor dies?
2) Still not on board with the percentage thing for Jigsaw Boxes, and especially not with those numbers. Almost 70% chance of the key being in the last box is ridiculous. Also, consider what would happen with Amanda's Letter if there were only two boxes, and no matter which one you chose, you only had a 5% chance of getting the trap off. -
For what it's worth, I've adopted Identity V's system of determining a winner for when I play. Assuming 4 Survivors, Killers win if 3 or more Survivors die, Survivors win if 1 or less Survivors die, draw if 2 Survivors die. Wouldn't be opposed to DBD officially adopting that. :P
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My main issue is mainly that the idea of "linking" Survivors as described above seems like it could just be done using the Obsession mechanic, but that in itself creates a big issue of tunneling. My thought would be to make it so the add-on hides the Obsession's identity from the Killer, but idk if the issues THAT creates would be worth it.
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I don't DC (barring a hypothetical scenario where someone abuses a glitch/exploit to hold the game hostage with the intent of preventing it from ending), but if there is one thing that would make me DC if I was that kind of person, it would be instances where my character completely locks up when trying to grab a Survivor that DCs or otherwise becomes un-grabbable in some way. Had it happen twice yesterday (once grabbing a person on a Jigsaw Box who DC'd, and again a few games later trying to grab someone at the exact moment Adrenaline fired off), and HOO BOY DO THOSE INSTANCES FEEL BAD.
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@HatCreature said:
@TAG said:
HatCreature said:The Jigsaw boxes need a chance percentage to find the key, right now the key is randomly placed in a box the moment you put the trap on. A lot of us are agreeing we need the first box to not have the key, the last box to always have the key and a percentage chance of finding the key in the other two boxes you search.
Other than add-on tweaks, Pig is really solid. We just need to change her Ultra rares and add in more add-ons for Ambush distance and speed.
I'm still not a fan of the Jigsaw Boxes being converted fully to a percentage system (especially if the percentages are not evenly distributed). I am on board with the first box always failing (either that or RSN2 being base kit), but I don't really like the idea of boxes being randomly success or fail. I think if they were to implement the guaranteed failure on the first box, they should make it so after searching the first box, one of the other three is randomly selected to have the correct key.
So even if the first box never has it and the last box always has it but the other 2 boxes with a percentage chance to have it you don't like? It's basically what you said, you said you're ok with the first box never having it and the other 3 nhaving a percentage. But to be fair the last box always needs to have it. Box 2 and 3 could have a 25 % each.
I didn't say that I''m okay with the other three having a percentage. I said I'm okay with the key being put in one of the remaining 3 boxes. With your suggestion, forcing a trap snap becomes MUCH MUCH easier because you have over 50% chance of having to search all four boxes (3/4 chance of failing the second box * 3/4 chance of failing the third box).
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Hatch - My stance is that they should make the trap snap on the Hatch, but there should also be compensations to make the trap easier to escape from if there is only one Survivor left. I feel like just giving trapped players a free out is too generous, but just flat-out making the hatch a death zone with no compensation is a liiiiittle too much in the other direction.DuckApproved said:So I have played quite a little bit of Pig. Now I see that the devs are actually buffing the Pig in the next patch, but it being Year of the Pig I just wanted to throw out some ideas to improve the killer.
1. Survivors can't escape through hatch with the Bear Trap on.
- Probably the biggest issue I have with Pig really. It makes absolutely zero sense that they can even escape with the trap on. Just have it so that when they try to escape they get their head blown off.
2. Jigsaw boxes.
- Don't know if the devs have actually fixed this one witht the next patch, but when the Jigsaw boxes spawn literally two feet away from each other its not fun for either party.
3. Timers.
- This final one is a bit iffy. As the Pig you actually don't see the same timer as the survivors do. Now I don't know to well how the timer actually works from the Pigs POV, but I've noticed it isn't the same one the survivor has.This is just some ideas I've thought up to just improve the killer and not neccesarily changed how she is actually played. More so just some general improvments. If anybody has some other ideas or can give me some good discussion on why these shouldn't be changes, feel free to shoot some ideas back at me.
Box proximity - Allegedly this will be improved on in the next patch
Timer - I still am of the belief that Pig should see the timer but Survivors have to rely only on the beeping. MAYBE I'm wrong, but I don't think giving the Pig access to the timer will result in a significant change in the effectiveness of forcing traps.
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I'm still not a fan of the Jigsaw Boxes being converted fully to a percentage system (especially if the percentages are not evenly distributed). I am on board with the first box always failing (either that or RSN2 being base kit), but I don't really like the idea of boxes being randomly success or fail. I think if they were to implement the guaranteed failure on the first box, they should make it so after searching the first box, one of the other three is randomly selected to have the correct key.HatCreature said:The Jigsaw boxes need a chance percentage to find the key, right now the key is randomly placed in a box the moment you put the trap on. A lot of us are agreeing we need the first box to not have the key, the last box to always have the key and a percentage chance of finding the key in the other two boxes you search.
Other than add-on tweaks, Pig is really solid. We just need to change her Ultra rares and add in more add-ons for Ambush distance and speed.
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Thankfully, by the time I decided I wanted to do Adept Pig, I had, like, 20 Ebony Moris saved up. Eventually managed to crack it (even though I thought the game just bugged and mistakenly gave me the achievement because I didn't know the difference between "Merciless Killer" and "Merciless Victory"), but it would have been a bit easier to manage had I done it after both the Pig and Surveillance got buffed.
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I got 5 Reverse Bear Trap kills the last time I played DBD. 2 in one trial, too. Pretty good stuff.
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I have faith that Santa will give me the patch tomorrow. Do you?
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It's different when you have 10 traps at once that would all go back into your inventory as a Survivor attempted to disarm his way through them. You could very easily make the area around the hook way more unsafe to approach than flooding the hook area with mud traps (since, again, mud traps can be crouched over to avoid detection).PigNRun said:@TAG said:
KillerRaccoon said:
jaerthebear said:
Dokta_Carter said:Becausean infinite trap like scenario?
Y no limit trap like hag tho???
I was about to say that...
What if he could have 10 traps, and when he places all ten of them, the circle arrow mark appears. If he tries to to place more than ten, the earliest placed trap (the first one) disappears. Just like how the hag’s traps work.
If a Survivor disarms a trap, the trap goes back into his inventory. If a Survivor sabotages a trap, there’s a cooldown before the trap goes back into his inventory. This cooldown could be altered by add-ons.
You know how you can crouch to get past Hag traps? Try to do that when a crapload of bear traps are surrounding the hook.
Its 2019. Trapping hooked Survivors hasnt been viable for a long time (unless its the basement).
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You know how you can crouch to get past Hag traps? Try to do that when a crapload of bear traps are surrounding the hook.KillerRaccoon said:
I was about to say that...jaerthebear said:
Y no limit trap like hag tho???Dokta_Carter said:Becausean infinite trap like scenario?
What if he could have 10 traps, and when he places all ten of them, the circle arrow mark appears. If he tries to to place more than ten, the earliest placed trap (the first one) disappears. Just like how the hag’s traps work.
If a Survivor disarms a trap, the trap goes back into his inventory. If a Survivor sabotages a trap, there’s a cooldown before the trap goes back into his inventory. This cooldown could be altered by add-ons. -
From what I can gather, Save the Best For Last was originally godly, then suffered a concussion when it was smashed in the face with the nerf bat, then recovered back into being a solid perk.
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If I am willing to play through a game where I'm the only Survivor who spawns into the trial, I can play through this.CornChip said:What a sweaty loadout. I would dip too.
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Yeah, Ultra Rare is about what I had in mind. And even then, I'd probably want it to also come with a penalty in the number of RBTs you start with specifically to stop that interaction.Vietfox said:
If it's ultra rare then sure. Ultra rare addons are meant to be powerful.@TAG said:I'm all for Pig buffs, but I think the ability to get back RBTs is better off being an add-on rather than base kit.
Btw, how nasty would be to face a pig running Amanda's letter and that addon? -
Good Guy Entity being mindful of teaching kids the wrong values.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:@BigBadPiggy said:
The Perk:
Nail on the Head: “Show them why they should wear their hard hats.”
When the killer hits a survivor that survivors vision will blur and their controls will be negatively affected (Like being drunk in GTA) while maintaining their speed. Effect will last 1/2/3 seconds.Can't agree because your idea promotes alcoholism:
Players who are drunk and move terribly will instead have their controls corrected by Nail on the Head, meaning that the way to counter this perk is to drink alcohol.Otherwise, cool idea.
(;
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I'm all for Pig buffs, but I think the ability to get back RBTs is better off being an add-on rather than base kit.
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That should not be possible. Either you miscounted, or the game bugged out.ThatOneGuy said:There wasn’t a 3rd gen to do it was on the Michael Myers map I ran around that entire map in the houses between them behind them and there were only 2 gens left. -
NEW SURVIVOR: ISSAC
NEW KILLER: THE LEG -
I've been kinda sorta experimenting without using Ruin on Pig recently. My build these days is usually BBQ (good at tracking of people with traps, since they are less able to play around it), Spirit Fury + Enduring (to keep up with chases a bit better once pallets inevitably start dropping), and a fourth slot that I've been trying to figure out. Sometimes it's Ruin, sometimes it's Nurse's Calling, sometimes it's Whispers. Currently it's Save the Best for Last, just to try and further keep up in chases.
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Would it? How many of the most popular ones are still accessible on, say, mobile?BigBadPiggy said:
It would take away the popular ones at least.TAG said:
Considering how many options there are to take into account (including some that cannot be dealt with, such as chatting using a different platform than the one you are playing on), I would say that it is indeed impossible.BigBadPiggy said:
I don’t remember what game it was, but is it really impossible when we have cheat detection stuff? A code could be written to see if a 3rd party chat is running like Discord, and then stop the player until it’s closed.TAG said:
I don't believe that without evidence.BigBadPiggy said:
I don’t know, it just wouldn’t let us enter matchmaking. But I know it’s possible.TAG said:
How on earth is that even possible?BigBadPiggy said:Here is a quote from the second paragraph.
"This would be a perfect addition because it would allow the Survivors to communicate but with a risk, unlike SWF that has no consequence (Maybe no third party chat rooms could be added?)."
I've played games before that didn't allow you to play if you were in a third party chat room, even on playstation. So I don't see how it'd be much different here.
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Considering how many options there are to take into account (including some that cannot be dealt with, such as chatting using a different platform than the one you are playing on), I would say that it is indeed impossible.BigBadPiggy said:
I don’t remember what game it was, but is it really impossible when we have cheat detection stuff? A code could be written to see if a 3rd party chat is running like Discord, and then stop the player until it’s closed.TAG said:
I don't believe that without evidence.BigBadPiggy said:
I don’t know, it just wouldn’t let us enter matchmaking. But I know it’s possible.TAG said:
How on earth is that even possible?BigBadPiggy said:Here is a quote from the second paragraph.
"This would be a perfect addition because it would allow the Survivors to communicate but with a risk, unlike SWF that has no consequence (Maybe no third party chat rooms could be added?)."
I've played games before that didn't allow you to play if you were in a third party chat room, even on playstation. So I don't see how it'd be much different here.
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I don't believe that without evidence.BigBadPiggy said:
I don’t know, it just wouldn’t let us enter matchmaking. But I know it’s possible.TAG said:
How on earth is that even possible?BigBadPiggy said:Here is a quote from the second paragraph.
"This would be a perfect addition because it would allow the Survivors to communicate but with a risk, unlike SWF that has no consequence (Maybe no third party chat rooms could be added?)."
I've played games before that didn't allow you to play if you were in a third party chat room, even on playstation. So I don't see how it'd be much different here.
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How on earth is that even possible?BigBadPiggy said:Here is a quote from the second paragraph.
"This would be a perfect addition because it would allow the Survivors to communicate but with a risk, unlike SWF that has no consequence (Maybe no third party chat rooms could be added?)."
I've played games before that didn't allow you to play if you were in a third party chat room, even on playstation. So I don't see how it'd be much different here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PzL8aL6jtI