SunderMun
SunderMun
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@NullEXE said:
He has a larger hitbox than other killers, so even though he is supposed to have more speed than survivors. It takes him longer to go around turns, so if Survivors formula one corners on a loop, he won't catch them no matter what. This makes Bamboozle (a very weak perk), a requirement on him.
He doesn't have much map pressure, being a killer on the slower side of all the killers - so requires Ruin. That makes 2 perks required on him already that doesn't give him a big advantage - as Ruin is not reliable in most cases.
His bottles take him a long time to make, and slows him down further to make them. In a game where every second counts. That's a huge handicap.
It is more difficult to see when you are hit by one of his toxins, but you can see enough to still loop very well against him.
Those are probably the biggest reasons that makes him the weakest killer. Otherwise he is a harder to play Huntress.
I would probably buff him by decreasing his hitbox, or increasing his speed. Reduce the time it takes to make concoctions, or remove the reduced movement when you make them. That would be a good starting point for making him more viable.
That first one is something I find Oni suffers from, too. Tight loops are a nightmare for him; it feels like you're playing huntress.
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@Slaughterhouse3 said:
-Be me as Ghostface on Thomsons house without ruin.
-Starts first chase and ends it quick first gen pops. Me: No biggie...ill just use pop on the next gen and it will be fine!
-Walks over to the next gen and that one pops :') Me: This is fine...I got this! I am ending these chases quickly I can win.
-2 gens pop after actually thinking that. Me: Hmmmmm.
-Last gen pops as quickly as the last two. -Camps the last survivor that I downed cause I had no choice. They were not even toxic....they agreed with me at the end :/ I wasn't even mad, just kinda boring for both sides aint it? Devs this comes from someone who LOVES your game....please do something about this one little issue. Killers are fine it is just how the game is currently designed. I tried to be cool about it but when you run into gen rushers you are gonna have a bad time. 😥
This is a big issue with the game, and it's not even the gen speed that's the reason for this; if one person is distracting, other gens should be able to get done.
In reality,it's map size making it difficult for any killer that isn't nurse or billy (or oni once he's gotten his power for the first time) to apply any real pressure unless they hide in one side of the map the whole game...and that's easily countered by stacking on the 3 gen location and intentionally leading the killer away. If they commit, they lose the gen, however, if they don't fully commit, they still likely lose about 10-20 seconds of gen progress and if the survivors stacked, it's going to be half done after one round.
Right now, we only have 2 perks to deal with this early game issue, and one of them is going to be removed as a possibility for said scenario.
One idea I remember seeing from Ayrun when watching his stream was not to change the base speed of generators (assuming map size isn't addressed, which a recent satisfaction survey suggests the devs are aware of now...finally) we could get a kind of penalty for the first few generators; that is, they work slower until one is done, meaning if survivors choose to do the efficient thing and split off generators, they actually get punished early game since each generator is slowed down by quite a bit. The idea with this would be that the first chase, assuming it's an average chase, might still cost the first generator, but only if the survivors not being chased stack onto the same gen instantly.
Another idea could simply be extra penalty for working together on a gen. Right now, 10% isn't really that much. Prove thyself completely negates this, and with a toolbox, (or two) that generator will be done in no time.
And my final idea is...more early game pressure perks. Of course, the devs want to balance the game around the idea of no perks; we know this by the fact they've been doing tests relating to this with the community, but so far no changes have suggested anything was really learnt from them.
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@ReallyBigShoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1009935#Comment_1009935
Instasaw hasn't been a real thing since Tinkerer was changed. He can have a faster saw, but it's nowhere near insta anymore. It's nothing that can't be dodged or juked.
Stop nerfing things because survivors refuse to learn how to play.
LMAO both sides are so damn stuck in their views it's obscene.
Billy. Is. Fine. Instasaw add-ons are not. Just because 'it's not actually insta' doesn't mean it's not grossly overpowered and doesn't lack any form of real counterplay
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Base billy needs no nerf; instasaw is the only thing that needs nerfing.
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@newavitar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007333#Comment_1007333
Recognize
The
Double
Standard.
It's
Getting
Extremely
Annoying.
It's not a double standard just because you want it to be. :)
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@newavitar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007224#Comment_1007224
Oh but the threads about killers who are "toxic" because they dared to try and win aren't?
Recognize the double standard. It's getting annoying.
'dared to try and win' LMAO
I didn't say it's only killer mains that are an issue here. Just that that's what this is, and that it's prevalent on the forum. There are definitely plenty of entitled survivor mains here too.
Tbh, both of these groups are prevalent within the game as a whole. It's awful.
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@stvnhthr said:
The object of a survivors game is to get the gens done as fast as possible and escape. That is there only goal, they are slow, vulnerable, and defenseless. That is the core of the game. What are you suggesting they do instead of completing Gens?
Stand still to be killed by entitled people who want easy games and refuse to try and improve on their own skills. :)
This entire thread is just a circlejerk of that kind of person. Heck, a lot of the forum is.
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@newavitar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006877#Comment_1006877
Yes, it is. Especially when there's no DS, or when it's out of the way. Imagine how often killers would tunnel if there was no DS or borrowed or anything. It's the same thing with gen rushing. There's hardly anything left to stop it anymore so it's capable of happening any game, if the survivors choose to. Just like if there was no DS or borrowed or anything, tunneling could happen any game if the killer chose to.
Right, except that is not efficiently if you at all understand what is happening in a given game.
To claim it's efficient is rank 20 logic, at best. If you tunnel one person, 3 people get to do gens for free. It is a losing 'strategy' (a word I'd use loosely tbh) against survivors with half a brain.
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Tunneling is not and never was efficiency, though.
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If I'm solo, I'm killer. If with a friend, I'm survivor.
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@AlsendDrake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/995657#Comment_995657
Honesty, it's my opinion that the issue is right now balance is impossible.
Solo Survivor < Random SWF/lowtier/newer player killers < good killers < SWF team 6.
They really need to learn you sometimes have to kill your darlings. Give all survivors coms, bringing solo up to par with SWF, then buff killers who can't deal with coordinated survivors up to where they can, balance out gens with coordinated teams, and then from there balance is far easier to work on, as currently the rift between randoms and swf coordinating is so massive it's not even funny.
I dop agree with what you say the core issue is, but comms in an already intensely toxic game could be more negative, although I could very well be wrong with that one.
It's definitely an idea that I hope the devs at least consider.
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@AlsendDrake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994778#Comment_994778
Thing is, Ruin was most commonly used on lower tier killers as they needed the little bit of extra time because of how the gens can fly, as said killers simply cannot apply pressure as well as they need to, so Ruin was a band-aid.
BHVR decided to remove the band-aid before addressing the wound, and turned ruin into a perk that really mainly benefits the killers that didn't need ruin in the first place.
So, while this may give more perk flexibility, it'll likely hurt KILLER flexibility, as now slower killers like Clown, Trapper, Hag, and so on lost their one tool to slow the gens down a bit.
Many Trapper and Hag players made the switch to CI a long time ago; it buys some serious setup time and narrows down the search radius, so I really do believe this change is more likely to hurt those that relied on a zero interaction perk to do the work for them than those that always tried to adapt.
Ruin most certainly was a band-aid, though. I do agree on that. But I do see good players of even M1 killers getting some great use out of it...assuming it survives their setup time. Which is an issue with hex perks that I really think just need the rules for activation/deactivation changing tbh.
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@DeathBeam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993072#Comment_993072
They could have changed the Deep Wound mechanics earlier without flat out neutering Legion, besides the amount of DCs against Legion did influence the decision.
Yes, they could have. Just as they didn't have to give Legion that nerf recently, despite the entire community saying they need a buff.
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@DeathBeam said:
People forgot the fact that new players dced so fast and reviewed bombed the game when freddy and legion came out because they couldn't and didn't know how to play against them and they nerfed them into the ground to the point they became worst killers at the time (and legion is still garbage).
Legion's changes weren't down to new players; that was the community as a whole because they were horrific for the game.
That Legion is bad now is down to the devs' unwillingness to make them viable, not because of the community.
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@kurgan8282 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/984254#Comment_984254
yeah dont tell me, made 3 games with Freddy and got 3 rotten fields...thought it was a joke XD
Hey at least Freddy can deal gen pressure to some degree :P
it sucks though. Idk how but they need to reduce some of the biggest maps' sizes ASAP.
And maybe while they're at it add oin a rule that you cant have a super strong jungle gym right out of shack window on Sanctum of wrath when it's already such a good survivor map with its sheer size.
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@kurgan8282 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983259#Comment_983259
personally I look.for totem just after a while, when I play as surv, after 3 years into the game i learned to hit skill checks decently so i let someone else go look for ruin or other totems :)
the real issue they dont (or pretend not to) consider is that this nerf will make any game in a big map, or in a "surv sided map" like coldwind, simply impossible for.killers, especially against a pre made team.
Don't get me wrong,I myself play with a team often and get fun from it, but it doesnt mean it's fair or balanced.
If they want to make this a standard, i'm pretty sure there will be a quick lose of interest in this game
I'll give you that. Those maps are awful. Earlier on I was trying to play Legion of all killers, and I got rotten fields, purgation, Sanctum of wrath (times 3) back to back. Unplayable as hell.
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@kurgan8282 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/979937#Comment_979937
it's POTENTIALLY powerful,but don't forget that in high ranks we know more.or less where totems spawns, it's powerful in the long distance for sure, but how many games you played with an hex stays open in the long distance?
In red ranks we have a tendency not to bother looking for the totem unless it's something like devour hope. Likewise, it would be more efficient to stick to a gen early game than to get off and look for the totem with new ruin.
Don't get me wrong, I do think something needs to be done about the way hexes work; (especially if we're going to go down the route of strong late game hexes) I don't think totems are the way to go. But I have no better ideas atm.
Often I leave games alive with Ruin still up, and as killer I get the same, with gens being worked on as if it wasn't there, so I don't even run it as a rule because it has almost zero effect on the survivors I go against on a regular basis.
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Survivors that always try to bait yuo and as soona s you so much as glance at them, they run to the infinite, on a map they put the offering for you to go on.
Had that yesterday as freddy on autohaven (the one with the two windows that is an infinite, IDK the name) A steve had object. As soon as I looked at him and walked 1m toward him, he'd run toward the infinite. If I hit him or any of his friends, they ran to the infinite. Even the snares couldn't help, and I couldn't mind game thanks to the object always seeing me lmao.
Made sure they all died though. :)
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@kurgan8282 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/979465#Comment_979465
that was because in more than 3 years they didnt think of an alternative perk to replace ruin, now they didn't make things better, just better for new players, which is not a right strategy for an online game, if you lose your base, the game fails.
The new ruin is incredibly powerful lmao it just doesn't do the same job that it used to; we already have corrupt for that anyway.
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This change is actually good for red ranks overall tbh.
That said, it never was about the red ranks. If it were, a lot of god loops would be destroyed instantly, as well as some killer mechanics.
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@kurgan8282 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/979280#Comment_979280
exactly, means that when you approach a new game you need to get better in it.
That is what I find challenging and interesting.
basically now they just made it easy and gen rushing friendly.
Right, except it was to the point that they were penalised for attempting to learn, and many new players quit very quickly for a number of reasons. Ruin's prevalence is definitely one of them.
Meanwhile Ruin had no effect on good players at high level, and so was useless but run anyway. Now it will actually have a function.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I played against a team with 4 tool boxes, got Temple of Purgation, and by the time I even waddled my ass to the other side of the map (was playing Myers by the way), two generators popped in under 30 seconds.
New Ruin totally doing work there.
Honestly, even when I had matches where my Ruin did survive and trying to hardcore do a 3-gen defense strat with many different builds (defensive hag, scratched mirror Myers, it just sucked. It did so little work. Losing 0.5 charges a second on a generator means nothing when survivors can just equip a toolbox and do 1.4 charges a second. Each.
As a survivor playing against it, instead of feeling obligated to leave me generator that's 60% done to go rescue someone immediately, I just push the last 40% before attempting to make the save. Everyone else does that too, making generators get pushed faster. Hell, I think Ruin has the opposite effect, since survivors feel more pressured to complete the generators before doing anything else, so they do not regress.
In that scenario, Corrupt likely would have saved you.
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@kurgan8282 said:
I'd like to receive an answer on that from the devs...if a perk like ruin which was an HEX (!!!),so could be taken off easily, was op, then how they consider a key that lets you go out in the kiddle of the game even if you did nothing to earn the win?
if they go on like this, soon we will be able to play without hands. Ofc for a little while before getting bored and move to.another game.
Ruin was an issue for newer players as it disincentivised them from doing gens since at first most people struggle to hit great skillchecks regularly.
Conversely, it is/was ineffective vs high nlevel survivors.
New ruin works on all levels and incentivises the killer to put out pressure on the gens rather than just committing to one really long chase, since any gens only one person was working on would end up with some huge regression on switching targets.
It had nothing to do with old ruin being OP, but an obstacle to new players coming into the game. And it was everywhere.
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@Todgeweiht said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/978282#Comment_978282
Thats one quote from Mcote, he rarely plays his game and has indirectly insulted the community on more than one occasion. It doesnt prove anything, you are just throwing dirt at the devs for the sake of it.
This is very true; I don't like the way he likes to regularly insult and deride members of the community for very real concerns. And he isn't the only one I've come across doing that.
Don't get me wrong, some people complain in the worst way, but his comments at times are just...oof. If a big company like Blizzard had someone in charge of development for one of their games say things similar to him, they'd have been lambasted and rightly lost a ton of PR/potential customers in an instant.
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@Slaughterhouse3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976058#Comment_976058
^ Agreed! I have so much more fun on the smaller maps...even as survivor.
Yep; I hate the big maps as both roles, for the most part. With the exception of Mother's dwelling as survivor being a map I enjoy. Hate it as killer because the survivors always seem to get the god window spawn and obviously they take a hit anywhere on the map and run back to it. It's so tedious.
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They just need increased interaction, which the new ruin change promotes. More changes and perks that do this, as well as better map design/more smaller maps (forcing us to run a specific perk like CI every game to avoid the issue of gens popping before finding anyone on the huge maps like swamp is pretty bad) would solve this.
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It's been 3 patches I think. He got the photography one while Jane got an artist one as part of the same collection. I do want more, though.
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@dfrenchiee said:
You really cant moonwalk anymore?? weird.
Yeah, and ironically it didn't fix the main thing it was meant to be a fix for: dedi hits through windows lmao
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/975812#Comment_975812
That's not mettle of man, it's yui's perk, any means necessary
It's actually the meme perk, Lucky Break
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Good job the thing we all have an issue with, the 3 second delay, is going to be changed, as confirmed by not_queen.
He's less clunky and doesn't have a perma-slowdown...definitely now better than legion tbh. We'll see how it goes once both sides have had plenty of interaction with the new version, including add-ons and new perk builds that we'll likely see.
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Guarantees they don't get out while spamming space and deadhard or whatever out of it and also they may see someone else they want to pressure while said survivor is downed. Hitting them is faster, as well as safer, than picking up and dropping them.
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This s just a case of situational gamesense tbh. Sometimes you have to 99, other times you open it up before becaus you know its necessary.
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Removing the ability to do skillful jukes or play stealthily is not healthy and clearly an attempt to succumb to the wills of bad players tbh. No thanks.
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@BadMrFrosty said:
Usually if I'm teabagging, it's just to have a laugh with the killer. I do the same to survivors on Ghostface. It's not meant to be a personal attack on their skill level or character as a human being. However, people with fragile egos tend to take these things the wrong way.
Tldr: Lighten up folks, if this game was a meal, it'd be canned by Gordon Ramsay for having too much damn salt.
While I'm the same way, there are definitely plenty of survivors that do mean it as some kind of an attack in this community tbh.
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@NurseMainBTW said:
Think about it:
Huntress' hatchets takes at least 2 seconds to cancel before she can attack;
Plague's purge takes 1/1,5 seconds to cancel before she can also attack;
Leatherface, arguably the closest killer to hillbilly, takes at least 2 seconds to cancel the chainsaw and also considerably slows down when he charges it.
The same is true for some other killers so why is hillbilly the only one not to be affected? There's 0 mind games at pallets since he can instantly cancel chainsaw and take a swing if the pallets doesn't get dropped. This is not coherent game design from all perspectives.
Either make every killer capable of canceling the power as fast as the latter (which would be honestly disastrous) or make Billy like everyone else.
He can't instantly cancel it; he has to wait for the bar to go down.
At worst, perhaps he could do with a slope in the volume/density of the chainsaw sound so we can predict; at best, it's fine because it allows for more fakes and mindgames.
Only thing I think needs changing is instasaw/curve add-ons tbh.
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966001#Comment_966001
Much more likely that someone Alt+F4s or kills the process in the task manager during loading because of the potential mori which causes issues for everyone else.
Right, except if you actually played survivor at all, then you'd have had the loading screen bug crash you out of the game a ton at this point. BPS also do the same thing.
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@underlord99 said:
Why do so many survivors DC over a hidden offering ?
Probably not as many as you think, tbh. A good half of the times I see a secret killer offering, someone ends up with the loading screen crash bug. It seems that these offerings play some part in its trigger.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965942#Comment_965942
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965937#Comment_965937
Yeah, once I get to rank 1 I don’t care about winning every game.
Im Actually gonna screw around today with some breakout, mettle of man build I’m sure it’ll suck but whatever
It'll suck,but if you get to make it happen...it'll be worth it; it will be fun! Basically what I began doing after hitting rank 1, and I still maintain it anyway. I'd rather lose the rank tbh though; games up here aren't fun.
And in this region for killer, every game is a red rank even if you're new...no joke, I remember getting almost exclusivelyred rank teams at rank 13 when I was relatively new to killer. Made me realise I have to try and have some fun with it or I'd just have to quit the game since the sweat is real.
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nemesis, blood echo, breakout are all perks I use tbh. If I want to meme, I'll use any means necessary too, (admittedly breakout usage is kind of memey too) but the others I don't really have a use for personally. That's 4 out of 6, which makes this a very successful chapter for me.
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Because Trapper is a good killer, albeit map dependent. Doctor is just bad.
That said, I would like to see Trapper bag become basekit.
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Since when is Lery's killer sided????? It CAN be but by no means is it by default; it's simply not a total stomp for survivors since they fixed the window spawns earlier in the year.
I'm only sad they're doing Lery's because we all thought it would be Haddonfield, which is in desperate need of changes while having potential for interesting loops and mindgames with its unique style. I mean, it's literally the map that caused Balanced Landing to be a pointless slot use for survivors.
@SpacingLlamas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/957036#Comment_957036
The devs said he will still slow down while charging his shock therapy
Most killers do when charging their powers in fairness; overall it's still much better than previously, imo, and some of the new add-on variations sound to be much more annoying to play against/potentially stronger, imo. Especially the chaining one. We'll see how it goes, though, since we don't have full details ;)
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Better matchmaking than I was getting when I was a green rank killer.
I remember getting rank 1 and 2's exclusively every game, and it happened all the way until I actually reached the appropriate rank. Matchmaking is a joke.
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While I think it would be cool; in fact, I considered some ideas regarding this quite recently, I don't think it's a good idea for this particular game as a result of the issues with the engine and spaghetti code...it would cause more problems than fun in the end.
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Made a hard camping, tunneling, noed/ebony mori/iri head huntress rage quit after she failed to down me after about 5 reloads. That was fun. People who abuse that kind of crap deserve to feel bad about it, on both sides.
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As usual, ######### awful. Bugs that stop us from getting games and super long lobby times, people getting kicked from games, infinite loading screens, matchmaking is dire. Etc.
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It's random...I can go 10 games without a single key with the plunderers build lmao. Anecdotes mean nothing over stats.
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Sprint burst since it's basically an actual functioning dead hard and can be used for some altruistic actions such as flashlight saves pretty effectively (dead hard is worthless right now thanks to dedicated servers...and yes, I use it the 'correct' way; I don't try to bait hits from killers)
Adrenaline
Spine Chill + resilience ( I love the extra action speed tbh, great for loops and objectives as well as information)
These are my main perks atm, but I also love breakout since in the right situation it will often lead to a relief of pressure from the killer if you play it right. And DS is kind of a must-have since a lack of its presence means the killer has a free pass to hard tunnel people off the hook.
Kindred is also a god-like perk right now, although I haven't been using it myself lately thanks to going for more themed builds and not getting many games in (thanks matchmaking bugs)
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
@Sairek is correct here in my opinion. Either the DCS need to go and game crashes and bugs need to be adjusted. Or they need to decrease punishments. I had to stop playing at a certain point yesterday because I was about to reach the 1 hour mark due to crashes and bugs and I don't feel like waiting to play for 6 hours. So I just quit playing. Something I shouldn't have to do because of bugs and crashes...
Hey that's what I do every time I try to play.
As survivor, I struggle to get games thanks to lobby bugs (even while I'm solo) and the quality is bad, riddled with game breaking bugs and all manner of unfun/OP crap from both roles...and dedicated servers which have been forced onto us make the experience much worse, too.
As killer, i find myself being cucked by bugs that stop me from literally ######### pressing M1, as well as randomly reappearing in different places while carrying survivors, giving them time to wiggle off.
And don't get me started on the bug that happens when a survivor is hooked but they get stuck in between...the only way out of those pieces of ######### is for either that survivor or the killer to DC.
DC penalties shouldn't be getting tested at all until the game is in a much better state, with regard to both balance for both sides and game breaking bugs. Not one moment sooner.
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Iri head needs it more. DS and BT are a necessary evil for now; iri heads aren't and it was about a year ago one of the devs said on their stream that they'd be essentially dead soon. Been a few chapters since then, and still nothing...so maybe it won't happen.
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@kate_main said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/925304#Comment_925304
Your argument wasnt better at all.
Also, Im a Legion main myself and I see those changes as a buff.
Have you tried adjusting your playstyle?
Nice bait.
I'm not struggling as Legion; doesn't mean they're not the worst killer in the game.