StarLost
StarLost
About
- Username
- StarLost
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@DBD_IS_AWSOME said:
Simply the question. Plz answer!
It certainly sounds like a decent cocktail.
-
@IamFran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660415#Comment_2660415
CoH is even more broken against Wraith due his "hit and run" mechanic and the fact he can't snuff a totem while cloaked.
Yeah, Hag is pretty rough too. CoH by it's nature sort of hard-counters attrition based styles.
I fortunately have a build that works decently against CoH, but it's really tedious to have to run it *every single game* in case someone brings it.
-
@GoodBoyKaru said:
Not at all. It could be used to create near-hostage situations (due to massively increasing the bleedout timer) and in some cases (like Freddy's mori) would cause those who suffer with epilepsy to have a seizure.
This was probably one of the funniest and ONLY bms Killer could do
Fun is obviously subjective so there's no reason to attempt to argue there, but only BM? Facecamping at 5 gens? Hitting on hook (most likely one)? Bodyblocking in a corner? There's definitely more than just "lol let me increase your bleedout timer by 3x for no reason you looped me so you deserve this".
and yes. that's actual reasoning i've heard someone give live.
To be fair though, I have photosensitivity issues myself - and flashlight macros give me serious problems (as do a lot of extreme strobe effects) as in I'll have to go and lie in a dark room with a headache/nausea.
@BenZ0 said:
This was probably one of the funniest and ONLY bms Killer could do... well ofc BHVR took it out cuz if Killers bm then its not allowed :(
I'll let you in on a secret:
I've never used a mori before.
Not once.
No idea why, just...seem to hoard them.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660432#Comment_2660432
Wanna hear something worse?
A lot of people playing DBD were born after the Dreamcast was discontinued.
And there are also those of us who are pushing 50...
-
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660447#Comment_2660447
I haven't specifically said bring back ranks, though; just that I don't think MMR is avoiding all of the problems with lopsided games, on top of having all of its own problems. And that it seems an unfair assumption to assume that everyone that doesn't like it must want to play Noobstomper 2021.
That's not an assumption I (or honestly anyone I've seen) has made.
I do think there are some that do miss that.
I think that others are simply used to much easier opponents, which allowed them 'less sweaty' games, more room to make builds and the game's imbalances to be less evident.
It's unfortunate.
@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660402#Comment_2660402
Only got two clips atm for This month, i'll post it here..
https://www.twitch.tv/verconn/clip/StupidMoldyTildeRiPepperonis-YCCmGdNTcyFeUncz This was on the game, the Feng was a subtle speed hacker and had Esp... by the time i finally downed her, she insta leaves the whole game... Glorious,
https://www.twitch.tv/verconn/clip/CoweringEnchantingMoonYouWHY-yEwK-ldBxw4Utkzh i dunno if i should context this.. the clip just speaks for itself,
Thanks. I'll give these a look in the morning. Genuinely curious.
-
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660420#Comment_2660420
See, ranks obviously have the elements of an MMR system, they just weren't particularly stringent about it. But it means that all the things that should ostensibly be factored into a deep, comprehensive rating system are already tracked and logged during a game. It's just... all been thrown out and replaced with a binary one.
And that should probably change. A more nuanced MMR system, done right - that I'd be up for.
I found that my rank as killer inflated really fast, which could be frustrating - a sentiment that a lot of other people on social media at the time seemed to share, hence a lot of deranking, which really made all the problems worse.
Again, there has to be a compromise position here. I just don't think the answer is going to be 'bring back ranks'.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660374#Comment_2660374
It’s funny, I don’t remember if I’ve ever gotten a grab with Demo after a tunnel. I think the killer I get the most grabs with is Michael in Evil 1, usually right at the start of the match. For a big guy he’s scarily quiet! 😄
Try the iri addon that gives you 15 seconds of undetectable and silent emerges. It's hilariously fun. Combine it with the Soda Can addon and you'll get a ton of grabs if you site your portals cleverly.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660415#Comment_2660415
Yes, I'd rather like to avoid a all-or-nothing scenario as well.
However, the Devs have known about these balance issues for years. They simply said that they aren't interested in fixing them. Now, that could have changed, but I doubt it.
Unfortunately, much like Hobson's Choice, they really don't get a choice. They either have to address high-level issues or the MMR system ends up not matching people with who they should be matched against.
Again, I think the next 6 months or so are going to be very telling. If Artist is allowed to remain strong, it could help mix up the meta a bit at high MMR. Certain problem perks (CoH, DH, probably Overcome) are probably on their radar. Ghostface and Legion are getting reworks - maybe they could also do the trick if they are 'Plague' tier not 'Pig' tier.
What I think we all need to do is stop bickering about the MMR thing and demanding reversion back to ranks and really start hammering them on the balance stuff.
-
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660402#Comment_2660402
I have absolutely zero interest in touching survivor; it's just the wrong sort of gameplay to me.
The current killer MMR side does not care about closeness. It does not care about methodology. It does not care about soft skills. If I have what is presumably an evenly-balanced game with appropriate MMR, but I get 8 hooks and 0 kills, my MMR goes down and I'm more likely to get a trivial one. If I have a horribly one-sided game where I don't do much of anything on a new killer, but one person slips up in EGC and everyone leaves them to die, my MMR goes down less. If multiple people throw in that scenario, my MMR goes up and I'm more likely to get a difficult game despite having just had a terrible one.
And you don't want two MMR systems prioritising totally different things. That's just asking for bizarre interactions where somehow both sides gain MMR, or both sides lose it.
I think that it's a bit different for survivors, as losing MMR can feel like it's punishing you with worse teammates. I agree - it's tricky.
As I was saying in the other thread, there has to be some sort of compromise position here. I'd certainly quit the second ranks came back, but I don't want the high MMR types to leave in frustration either. I'm not sure how much of it is psychology, where 'fairer' games are less fun for folks, or if MMR is just really jank at some brackets/times - and I don't have the metrics.
All I can speak to is my own experience, and a bit of inference from the various streams and discussions I've seen.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660399#Comment_2660399
Well, I understand that, and that's probably why BHVR hasn't reverted it.
You lot are the future of the game, and it really only matters if you guys are having fun. If you manage to stick around for as long as some of us have, you'll see it too.
I'm simply seeing a disastrous possibility ahead of us. If we do not address the issues at high MMR, a trickle-down effect will start that will affect all of us.
The answer - and what I hope will happen - is that high MMR now placing a lot of attention on the longstanding massive balance issues in the game will make the devs adjust killers so that there's more variety at the high end and that everyone can have more fun.
High MMR does tend towards a more 'set' meta and does play out sweatier than more intermediate levels.
I really hope that we can reach a place where new/intermediate/veteran players can all enjoy this game without it coming down to a Hobson's Choice.
@IamFran said:
There are ways for make the people at the top feel better: nerfing or removing some survivor items or addons and nerfing some overused perks, specially Dead Hard.
I'm not in the top MMR as killer, but I watch streamers frequently who are in the top and they're forced to play "sweaty" more by addons and perks than survivor skill itself. Purple medkits, CoH, 4 Dead Hards, Borrowed Times, Brand New Parts, frequent offerings for survivor sided maps (Haddonfield, Ormond, Badham,...).
Nerfing or removing broken addons like BNPs and purple medkits would help a lot, as well as making map Offerings ultra rare items maybe.
Oof, CoH. Was watching an Otz game today where a Wraith was basically hard countered by 'CoH exists'. Even he was remarking on how broken it was.
-
@BowlofTofu said:
Been running into them a lot more lately, and can't seem to keep up with the coordination. At times it feels unfair, cause by the time I get one down they've done four gens even when I'm leaving chases to go get people off other gens.
Right now I'm playing a lot of plague and the perks I'm using are:
Discordance, Ruin, Thrilling Tremors, BBQ
Any suggestions?
Plague?
Oh, that makes it a bit easier.
I like a variation of the 'Otz' build - Retribution+Ruin+Discordance/CI+Devour Hope/Undying
I also personally like my 'sneaky Plague' build - Plaything+Retribution+Lethal Pursuer/Discordance+BBQ/Thana. Huge pressure, tons of info and works brilliantly against people who refuse to cleanse.
I also love the 'infect all the objects' addons, holy crap is that fun.
-
@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660293#Comment_2660293
i can give you multiple clips, Vods might've already been deleted after awhile,
I'd have to see those clips in context, because timeline is going to be key here. But sure, maybe do a montage and upload it somewhere.
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660383#Comment_2660383
I feel like a lot of your posts on this topic boil down to "my anecdote vs your anecdote", and deciding that everyone whose opinion on it is different is high MMR looking for stomps.
But... the thing is, the experience you describe no longer getting is the one I keep seeing, so I'm not sure MMR has been the amazing panacea you're claiming.
And a simplistic MMR system that ignores most of your gameplay isn't going to promote a fun and exciting experience unless most of that gameplay is necessary to MMR. Which it isn't, so you're still going to unintentionally filter out every other scoring category in the game.
No, just the guy who basically said 'I don't care about having fun, I just want to kill people'.
I'm sure that plenty of high MMR folks aren't deliberately trying to stomp (although boy were a lot of people smurfing back then...) - but again, those '100 win streak' videos do come at the expense of a lot of stomps.
It's just no fun to be constantly put up against people so much better than you that not only do you not have a chance to win, but you can't even really learn anything.
Do you play survivor or killer mostly?
If killer...I'm honestly not sure what to say. Survivor - yes, I totally agree that the system needs to be improved for survivor. But there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Someone earlier came up with the idea of tying emblems into survivor MMR gains - and that seems like a pretty smart way to go about it.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660390#Comment_2660390
Ideally, sure.
But those people have been playing for thousands of hours. They have experience and talent. You can't just replicate that overnight.
Realistically, you might replace half of them. 83% of the game's players have never made it past Silver I (Rank 10) on Survivor. Less than 10 PERCENT have ever made it to Silver I (Rank 10) on Killer.
If something isn't done about the high-ranked situation, there won't be a point to MMR at all. It will literally be the same system.
I don't think it will. While it would be a pity to lose you veterans (you particularly strike me as a decent bloke), if we were to go back to the misery that ranks were for me, I'd probably have to leave. I just can't go back to the stomps, the smurfs and just being miserable struggling to do anything in more than half my games because killers don't have matchmaking protections and even Fog Whisperers are deranking to stomp (which happened under the old system).
And I'm really getting into this game now.
-
@Pulsar said:
The issue is that as higher-skilled players get burnt out (which I think we can agree that high-ranked Killers will be burnt out first), less skilled players get thrown to the higher-skilled Survivors because there aren't enough high-skilled Killers....that's the exact same system that we had before.
Ideally, people will come up to replace them.
Again, I don't think the right way to do this is just to give high MMR folks carte blanche to buttstomp lesser skilled folks constantly. As much fun as they were, those '100 game streak' videos might have to be a thing of the past, for the good of the future.
-
@Aurelle said:
The best part about the old ranking system was the randomness. You never knew what kind of survivors or killers you were going to get, which made it more fun.
Maybe that would be true for high MMR folks.
This made it an absolute nightmare for those of us who are still very much learning. The current system feels...better. So much better.
It's no fun to get matched against people with 30x your hours played and get stomped so hard that you barely learn anything besides 'how many teabags can one survivor get away with before they just leave'.
-
@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2659741#Comment_2659741
"Then that'll even out in time" except the system has been out for 2 months. It's funny because matches when it released were actually mostly fine, and I was praising the system, but it started getting worse and worse, and almost every killer player that I know is insanely stressed with the game. And you know what's more funny? The first matches were probably cool because MMR took the results from the matches with the Emblem System.
It's not really a matter of "you shouldn't win all the time". I'm actually winning WAY more than I was when the system first released (my kill rate on November rn is sitting at ~3,3, while on October it was less than 3). It's a matter of having actually fair matches where both sides have a chance of winning, and that's definitely not the experience I'm having. I recommend you have a look at the "x more minutes of streamers suffering with SBMM" by Choy on Youtube.
Yes.
And from where I'm standing, it has evened out quite a bit.
My match quality is better than it was a month ago, and tons better than it was under the ranks system.
@JexxTron said:
I can spend 400K and not get any thing worth using. I cant use a flashlight. The matches where survivors are trying to make money are quite fair I think. Broke survivors need money to buy that stuff. You can't buy blood points (thank goodness)
Yeah the grind is real...but not really an MMR thing :).
-
@SmarulKusia said:
SBMM is so terrible.
Back to back, face-camping, tunnelling, noed and etc..
With the old system, killers were at least discouraged somewhat as you got a penalty for face camping, and it affected the 'ranking', what we have now is just awful.
Please no.
My matches have been so much better.
I totally understand that it's more stressful/sweaty for high MMR folks, but it's been amazing for us newbies/intermediate types.
What does need to happen is survivor SBMM becoming a bit more nuanced. But I'm having a blast right now as most of my matches feel so much fairer, win or lose. I'm no longer a punching bag for endless chains of smurfing SWFs and 3000 hour monsters and can actually gradually improve.
-
@dugman said:
- Doesn’t happen often but getting five tokens on Devour Hope and killing the survivors with it is pretty sweet
- Gen grabs while stealthed
This was...literally my exact thing. Grabs on demo coming out of the portal are the most fun things ever.
A few more:
- Landing a really juicy Surge on multiple gens simultaneously.
- Giving a pair of survivors who were really fun the gate.
- Prenerf Wraith.
- Chaining multiple Hunts together on Cenobite (RIP addons)
- Bending a hook through shack door, out shack window and hitting a survivor who then DCs.
- Watching people freak out when they trigger traps on Hag.
- Jumpscaring people in general.
- Downing, hooking and killing a teabagger or flicker.
- Playing Demo with the whistle and yellow fungus addons (seriously, this makes him almost 'A 'tier if you use it right).
-
@Zachcjjj said:
im gonna be honest dude if you cant even get out of ash rank i dont think its the game
Agreed.
I mean...I'm nowhere near a good killer and am infinitely worse as survivor, but that just sounds like hyperbole. I can reach Gold with survivor and sometimes Iri with killer.
-
@Zachcjjj said:
people are so overdramatic about "toxicity" in this game when realistically in my 2k+ hours of experience about 5% are ACTUALLY toxic and like 70% are actually so nice and wholesome and the rest are just chilling playing the game and they dont give af about what goes on outside the match. Maybe i just get exposed to the toxic stuff because realistically whose going out of their way to post about the good experiences but idk
I think that's true of most games, even the 'toxic' ones.
The thing is - it's the toxic experiences that stick in your mind, even if they make up only a fraction of your games.
I call it the 'one really eggy fart in a cinema' syndrome.
@SunsetSherbet said:
The thing that makes the toxicity in DBD different from other games, is that there are two separate roles with two entirely different methods of play and goals. It creates a tribal mindset in the community where there is no empathy to the other side, and even an actual hatred for the other side. This doesn't appear in a lot of games because it's two teams or players with the same available characters/items/whatever going for the same goals etc. It also causes people to take greater offense and also causes people to stereotype all of X side as being a certain way. IE all killers are campers, all survivors are tbaggers etc.
Because you can just pick one side and ignore the other, I feel that just causes a lot of us vs them mentality than in turn creates a very visceral "sports team" sort of tribalism.
This.
Had a really nasty group earlier, so I'll definitely be playing a bit less mercifully for a while.
Same thing happened after I had an Ash and Meg play 'hide and seek' for over an hour because they gave me a 3gen on Ironworks. Just...not even trying to lead me off, do gens etc. Skulking around the map geometry doing just enough to avoid AFK crows, it took half an hour after I just AFKed for them to finally finish - pure sour grapes.
-
@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2659728#Comment_2659728
You did too much bones?
No seriously this community really is not that bad compared to others..
Eh...
It's not pre Tribunal LoL bad or original DoTA bad, and it's miles from early XBLive or Smite bad but it's still pretty awful at times.
It's because this game can be frustrating. Take a game I had earlier.
Playing Doctor. Wind up on Grim Pantry with that frigging log right in front of the boat, forming the pseudo-infinite. Yay. And I'm up against a 3-man.
Game starts rough, 3 gens pop before my first down. However, after I hook the Bill, the other survivors leave him to almost die because one is too busy showing off that - yes - she can play the log-boat infinite basically forever and the other two are healing or something.
I end up chasing the one on the boat over to the hook - she unhooks in front of my face. Fine. I hit her, then hit Bill (for some reason) attempts to bodyblock (maybe he thought he had BT or something?) and down him again, then down her. Feel a bit bad because he had a rough bounce, so I back off and let their friend them heal him up.
They end up stomping me - just hugging that damn boat loop every time I chase. And of course, Bill sits in the exit gates with his two chums teabagging away, then I get told to uninstall in postgame by all 3.
Welp, now I'm going to be playing no-mercy games for a bit because sod all survivors on principle. No streamers for you!
And that's how the cycle of toxicity continues.
Sigh.
-
Oh please, please no.
DCs finally seem to be rarer (I wonder if BHVR tweaked something to make penalties more aggressive) and with DC penalty off, it's almost guaranteed that the second I down someone or if they even see me too early, they just DC. It's near impossible to get a decent game.
-
@JexxTron said:
Hey all ( 5 of ) you switch players. It is possible to play iridescent 1 with the best of them on a Nintendo without fancy perks. I met Leon here in single queue.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DE287F2FKORY/red-1.jpg
so Sweet_Tour , Pulsar and Verconissp lets see your Halloween pics. Can you hold your own against a switch player? (Yes, I need a Ranger kit. OK so I bleed a lot. what about it?) And pyramidheadmain6233 can you even catch me?
Well done!
If I didn't guard my actual Steam ID so closely these days, I'd be happy to put my Hag up against you.
-
@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2659324#Comment_2659324
It does sound excessive, and i wish i was even kidding... but i ain't
i stream this game for like 8 hours or so, i can literally tell you...how many daily hackers i get,
even Subtle ones i've noticed too... and my reports do jack against them =I
Interesting.
Which game? Is it one of those on your Twich?
I really want to check this out (preferably without trawling through dozens of hours of video) - timestamps would be appreciated.
I've come across one overt killer since I came back 3 months or so ago and I've seen maybe 2 others in perhaps 100 hours of streaming content.
-
@Khelendrose2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660069#Comment_2660069
MMR is just as easily gamed as emblems. Maybe even easier. I've seen survivors destroy a killer, open the gate, refuse to leave, get sacrificed by EGC, and derank. Lots of BP and derank. I've seen killers do the same. Own survivors, get chili stacks, break pallets, kick gens, afk for the 4 escape and derank.
I've been playing tgis game since shortly after release, tgis is the worst matchmaking yet. Very bad for the game.
Yes - you can smurf your MMR down. It takes significantly longer than deranking would under the old system.
I ran into smurfing SWFs a month ago. I think I've seen 1 in the past week now. I think people are starting to realize that it's just not worth the effort.
-
@LeonSupremacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660160#Comment_2660160
I haven't used an account with this name is months, I wish I got to face you though, I hope there are more demo's out there to play with! :D
You'll see me around then! It was a very similar name.
I mostly play Demo, Doctor, Hag, Cenobite (RIP) and very occasionally Pig. Plan on learning Pyramid Head and Ghostface (post rework).
-
@Impartiality said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660208#Comment_2660208
There are loads that want SWF removed and any comms banned. If you read this whole thread there are already a few examples
When people are frustrated they tend to swing for the extremes, in the hopes of finding a compromise situation. It's an ill-advised but understandable negotiation strategy.
-
@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660028#Comment_2660028
With the lack of strong killer players right now, this would make queues even longer. The strongest teams prolly wouldn't ever get a match at times.
It is also sad that many a player will rejoice just reading that last part.
They will get matches. They will just need to wait a while.
This is normal in most games. Queue up as a 5man in HOTS or LoL...you could be waiting for 15-30 minutes at higher ranks.
I'd rather make people take a small hit to play with friends than let them terrorize everyone else.
@Impartiality said:
So people without friends are upset that others are allowed to play with their friends?
Sigh, no. Don't strawman.
I don't think anyone wants SWF to be removed or anything. There are simpler, smarter ways to work this out so both sides win.
What is annoying is that SWF provides huge advantages with nothing to offset those advantages.
Most other games will increase your matchmaking MMR when playing as a group, so that you will at the very least encounter a stronger opponent to compensate.
-
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660143#Comment_2660143
yes i want the Emblem system to be the determining factor whether you win or lose.
because just going off of Kills / Escapes is a horrible decision and is extremely inaccurate when it comes to actually determining who is good and who is bad at the game.
just because someone died does not mean they'd be bad at the game (or worse than the people that got out for that matter) - yet MMR says so.
just because the Killer killed two people does not mean they'd be good at the game / they'd be bad at it (e.g. instant facecamp + NOED kill) - yet MMR says so.
Emblems would allow such scenarios to not matter as much as they currently do - if you were the absolute MVP this game but died right at the end, then you're still going to get MMR points (or at least not lose any), while that one claudette that hid in a corner all game and got out is not going to be treated as superior (or even equal) to you.
it would overall just be a significant improvement over the current system, thats for sure.
I'm fine with killer MMR going off kills. Honestly, MMR works best the simpler it is and I think emblems would just cause a problem here. Killer emblems are...weird. I know that I wouldn't want my MMR going up after getting stomped just because I chased a lot.
Survivor - yes. That system needs to be a lot more nuanced. Maybe emblems would be a good way to go about this? Make MMR gains/losses some product of emblems+escape?
-
@LeonSupremacy said:
Hii everyone, I'm new to this whole forum thing so please treat me nicely! :D
I came here today to tell all of you killer mains out there that I appreciate you very much.
I usually main survivor only because it's always stressful to play killer even though I really really want to so I congratulate any of you that continue to still do so.
Today, I felt like playing pinhead for some reason so I did. I didn't run any meta perks because I'm here to have fun, not sweat. You can tell how that game probably went, but if not, gens basically popped everywhere even with pressure applied. Anyways, I'm not here to complain about that because frankly I expected it and don't really mind. What I want to point out is the toxicity I'm observing as killer from survivors.
I got absolutely DEMOLISHED by the survivors in the endgame chat and it was because I got ONE kill on their friend and I don't see why it's that serious when I did not tunnel/ proxy camp until endgame seeing as there was nothing else for me to do at that point when they were all hovering around. It's cool though, just get into another match and continue on.
Now survivors, I know there are killers that may do the same thing, it's not just one sided. From now on, I think everyone should play their part and have a positive mindset! It's not just what the Devs do, but the community plays a huge part in the health of this game too. :D
Oh yeah, I hope everyone is having a very amazing and wonderful day today! <3
Thanks, and welcome to the forums! Also - I could swear I played against you very recently. If I recall...I was playing Demo against you on Midwich?
Killer is indeed a very stressful, often entirely thankless role so it is appreciated.
@Sakurra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/296509/killer-mains-i-appreciate-you
That's the killer experience. Most of time I'm insulted in chat. You should play more killer. It's fun. Joke.
Yeah, this. Wow, but it can be rough sometimes. You'll try not to play scummy and get teabagged all the way to the gate for it.
-
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660109#Comment_2660109
the Emblem system judges your ingame performance and gives you a score based on that - this score is later used by the Ranking system to determine whether you get to rank up, lose your rank or stay where you are. The Rank is then the determining factor for your Opponents in your next match.
in short: the Emblem system judges your ingame perfromance, the Rank system is used for matchmaking purposes. They used to work together hand in hand, but they arent the same system.
if we want to remove Ranks, that does not necessarily mean the Emblems had to go as well, its just the matchmaking determining factor that has to be replaced.
Sadly, the Devs didnt do that and instead removed both at the same time, which lead to them giving MMR a much worse system to determine your performance - essentially the thing determining whether you win / lost right now is the Unbroken / Devout Emblem alone (even a worse version of those, as some of the extra requirements these two used to have arent being taken into account at all (times you went down / hooks achieved)), as the system only cares for whether you escaped / how many you killed.
so its not a very accurate system and its completely inferior to the previously already existing Emblem system, due to it ignoring away everything you did during the trial.
Nope, still not totally grasping what you are asking for.
So...you want the emblem system to be tied to the MMR system - like, the emblems you earn increase your MMR somehow?
This might be decent for survivors, but for killers...eh. Honestly, even on matches I lose handily I'll get 2-3 golds, sometimes iris. I think that would massively inflate killer MMRs.
-
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660069#Comment_2660069
but he was talking about the Emblem system, not the Rank system?
those are indeed two very different things - one determines how well you played (Emblem), the other one determines who you get to play against next (Ranks).
they want to merge the Emblem system with the MMR system to more accurately determine an individuals skill, not bring back the old Rank based matchmaking.
I'm...a little confused.
What would be the difference?
-
@Fuzzels said:
Why does MMR get determined off of kills /escapes while we have an actual semi decently functioning emblem system?
Why is it that if you die, you auto lose MMR, instead of "oh you died BUT with 4 iri emblems? Mmmmm MMR+ " or "oh you escaped but with 1 iri, 1 silver, and 2 bronze? Yeeeeahhh.. that's an MMR- do better / more next time."
Using the emblems would actually take into account what you did or didn't do throughout the match. Ya know.. a thing most people who have made suggested fixes to MMR, have said?
I understand the old emblems and rank system were jank af. That's fine. It's in the past. What we have for emblems now though actually feel fairly accurate.
Not only would it take your various activities in the match into account, but it would also (due to that) lessen a few of the various things people do that generally cause frustrations for the opposite or even same team. IE you lose points for camping a hooked player. Or on the surv side, lose points for unsafely unhooking or hook bombing.
Obviously there would still be people playing in some less savory ways but it would lessen, and at higher MMRs would be near non existent because if that's how you play at high ranks, you won't be staying at high ranks for long. Things like camping and tunneling, hook bombing or trying to force DS (and subsequently being tunnelled out of the game).
I just don't really understand why effort went into fixing the emblem system if its original use was simply going to be scrapped and replaced with a (generally accepted as and called a) mediocre change.
The problem with the 'ranks' system was that:
- It was way too easy to derank and smurf. It was so bad that even some Fog Whisperers admitted to deranking for easier games on stream. Emblems would have the same problem.
- Killers had no matchmaking protections, so high MMR people would constantly get matched against people with much less experience/skill, resulting in those amazing '100 win streak with a meme build' videos.
MMR has it's problems, particularly in terms of people with high MMR now constantly having harder games than they are used to, plus the occasional 'wut' matchup - but it's been significantly better now, at least for me as a comfortably intermediate killer player that prefers to try weird perk and addon combinations.
At least 3/5 games are...pretty decent. Maybe 1/5 is a touch too easy and 1/5 is a brutal slog, but before MMR, around 2/3 of my games were me getting absolutely stomped by people with thousands more hours of experience, generally smurfing.
I do agree that MMR for survivors should be more nuanced than died/escaped, but there's plenty of room for refinement.
-
@IronKnight55 said:
None. I don't play scummy.
The only time I'll camp is when someone's teabagging or flicky flicky macro'ing me.
Otherwise, I'm pretty chill.
I still regularly get cussed out in postgame.
Bring addons and win? 'OMG carried nub scrub killre uninstal reported hacker'
Play a strong killer/use meta perks and win? 'x killer/perk so OP sweaty tryhard l2p'
Play a rare killer or use odd perks and win? 'srsly just play normally scrub y u so sweaty?'
Give a team a chance to farm after a DC? 'reported for holding game hostage just end'
Don't give a team a chance to farm after a DC? 'reported for unsportsmanlike I know the devs enjoy ur ban'.
Lose or go easy on people? 'LOL babykiller games full unninstall'.
This game...tends to bring out the worst in folks.
-
@LaChicalinda said:
Moments a go i play as a Cheryl survivor and i enter in a match of killer-surv team, one or two survs search for the others, sabotaje the gens when u almost finish and them follow you, leading the killer to your position to get down, hook, and unhook .. And again and again._. I dont care if ill be banned, maybe is the best they can do, u know what i mean.
This is my fourth day playing, i feel i wasted my money.
I've seen this...maybe three times since I started playing.
Once was a situation where a 3man got a random Dwight on their team who constantly (and deliberately) sandbagged them or led me to them. We...sort of conspired to end him and all stood around watching him die on hook.
Once was just an obvious troll who would lead me to everyone else. I tunneled them out and let the rest farm a bit.
The last time was recently, where two people deliberately blocked a Leon into a room and went AFK. I cleared them out and eventually gave him and the other chap the gate.
Out-of-game, DbD has a pretty decent community.
In-game...woof.
-
@Yatol said:
my killer queu times take an eternity, i try to spread my playtime across them so that might be why.
That's so odd. You must have a very high or very low MMR, because I reckon mine is slap-bang in the middle and even at the weirdest hours, my queue times never exceed 90 seconds or so.
-
@Yords said:
I happen to get quite a lot. In fact a streamer was going off in it just last night for me.
Do you get salt often? Do you find it funny?
I set my profile to private after I ran into a smurfing streamer and his mates a good while back and managed to beat them (was playing Hag) despite having 1/10th their hours. He evidently sent his two dozen or so viewers over to take a poop on my lawn, accusing me of 'hacking'.
It's been so much better since then.
-
@Fuzzels said:
Since killer ques are (typically) instant or nearly instant, we get to pick and choose what teams of survivors we want to play against, again.
See a group of 4 using toolboxes and don't wanna deal with it? Exit lobby, reque, and have a new set of 4 in seconds.
Get a very obvious 4 stack swf? (As in, all the same character, similar names, etc etc) and don't like that? Mmmmm next. 5 second wait and you're good to go with a new group.
I think that's enough examples. You get it.
Alsoooooo.. the fact that with less killers, it becomes harder for the MMR system to CORRECTLY match people up in their proper mmr range, so as survivor ques get longer they have a wider range to be put into. And maybe in wrong but I feel like that could be a very viable explanation as to why your games as killer can feel so varied in terms of survivor skill levels. So basically MMR is creating the exact situation it was meant to prevent. Kinda silly imo.
Here's my lobby policy.
Obvious 3-4man SWF? No problem if they are on console.
If they are on PC? Check profiles. If it's a bunch of sub 1000 hour people, I'll give it a shot if I'm on a killer I'm decent with but I'll throw on the strongest addons and perks I have available.
If they are all private? Maybe dodge.
If I'm playing a weaker killer? Maybe dodge.
Legacy skins? Probably hackers. Definitely dodge.
A lot of the time, I'll discover too late that it's just a bunch of mates jamming together, not a coordinated stompcomp.
That said, there is the odd time that it's a group of jerks that send me to Haddonfield and abuse the hell out of the infinite. In these cases...well, I'll be watching Bob's Burgers. You chaps have fun.
-
Thing is - it wouldn't be that hard to apply a temporary MMR inflation to SWF teams, to ensure they went up against stronger killers. Say, 1.1x for a 2man, 1.3x for a 3man and 1.6x for a full squad.
@Veinslay said:
SWF isn't a problem, killers just play like ######### and are babies!
Don't be a jerk.
It is very frustrating to go up against a full SWF with stacked perks, addons and a map offering.
-
@PsychoTron said:
currently im running sloppy, franklins, nurses, and monitor.
Im only getting at best 1K in my matches. I don't feel like im getting any nurses value since the survivors are able to heal really fast.
anyone found a good Hag build post healing boon meta?
Monitor+Devour Hope+Retribution+Plaything works for me.
-
@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2659494#Comment_2659494
"Before MMR, I could be matched against almost complete newbies or insanely skilled SWFs with thousands of hours between them. Those games were never fun." That's exactly my experience with MMR. Every match feels like a "will I stomp or be stomped" gamble. I still win most of my games but it doesn't feel like it's because I go against equally skilled players. Every team feels like there's a weak link with <500 hours who I can exploit to win.
The old system wasn't actually that bad. People like to say that being rank 1 didn't mean that much, but the emblem system at least felt more detailed than the "unga bunga kill escape" that we have now. Everything it needed was to never match people who were 4 ranks away from you (so rank 1s would never go against people under rank 5 for example) no matter how long the queues were, and maybe don't let people who are also 4 ranks away SWF.
Then that'll even out in time. It could be a matter of them going on a winning streak (the omnipresent 'hides all game' survivor) that then runs into you after their MMR inflates.
And sure, you get the occasional bad matchup.
It's nowhere near as bad as it was before. It was fine for people with high MMR, but not for everyone else. Again, I'd have to dig up the old screenshots I took of the postgame match screens - nasty TTV premade after nasty TTV premade all day.
@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2659711#Comment_2659711
Then you are easily one of the most unlucky players I've ever met.
However, that is all your situation is about...bad luck.
I first started playing DBD in 2018, and the matchmaking never game me such unfair games at the very start.
There was a period where everyone was a lot less experienced, sure. That wasn't the case when I started.
It could also be that this was before BHVR removed killer matchmaking protections.
But let's take Otz (and a few other ultra high-end streamers) as an example. Pre MMR, he was able to do his 'streaks' with some regularity. It wasn't unusual for him to get 30-40 wins consecutively without too much difficulty using no addons on some very weak killers. A great deal of those games were absolute stomps.
Now? He's struggling to get past 10-20 on Pinhead. Pinhead isn't strong, but he's way stronger than pre-rework Trapper.
To me, that clearly demonstrates that MMR is putting him up against more consistently experienced survivors. Sure, there's the occasional weird match - but there's a massive difference.
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2659461#Comment_2659461
Uhhh, no?
Matchmaking had its problems occasionally, but you didn't see people complaining that every single one of their games has been sweaty and miserable. Unlucky players did get some weird streaks, but never 100% of their games as a whole.
That seems to be the case now.
There are COUNTLESS, and I mean COUNTLESS, things in DBD that should have been left untouched.
Matchmaking is one of them.
If you went back to the era where I first started - it wasn't just unlucky streaks.
Nearly every one of my games was against people far more experienced and skilled than I was, to the extent that I really couldn't do much. I came to the forums and asked about this, and was told 'that's just the game', 'queue times for high ranked survivors are too long so we removed killer matchmaking protections' etc. Not to mention the endless, endless smurfs - people at yellow/brown ranks with full meta perks, 1400 hours played in a SWF together. Multiple times in a row.
This is why you can't really do crazy 100 win streaks anymore. Those streaks were you being matched against people much less skilled than you for the most part.
Now...it's different. I get the odd weird matchup, but by and large I'm playing against people around my hours played and similar skill.
-
@gammatsunami said:
It sucks too because I want to play double BP coming up and use my cakes, but all my cakes are on killers. I dont want to give these survivors cakes either.
Why?
I personally love bringing Streamers etc. because it gives everyone a decent about of BP, win or lose.
-
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2659482#Comment_2659482
The whole 20 hour newbie going against comically lopsided matches that don't teach anything.
Ah, yeah. That's pretty much the core of what I'm saying.
And it's not even complete newbies. I know that at 200ish hours of killer experience, I can punch my weight against 400-600 hour survivors soloing - but still get rolled over by 1000 hour SWF groups. Especially on certain killer/map combinations (that's...another discussion).
-
@kolosovski said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2656654#Comment_2656654
I don't get this type of complaint. So what's the solution here? Match top players with new players so the top players smash the new ones? What you just described sounds like a balanced scheme for me. You rank up, you get matched with ranked up players. That is just... obvious in every type of online game? Of course the game has to be balanced around most of the player base. Balancing the game around the top 1% players would completely mess with most of the player base.
That, unfortunately, really does seem to be what the veteran players are asking for, even if they don't realize it.
I do think that more attention needs to be paid to balance at the high end of things - as high MMR is where these imbalances really start to become a problem - but just unleashing the top MMR on everyone else again is just...bad for the game.
High MMR in every game is sweaty and limited. But there has to be a better solution than making the game just worse for everyone else.
-
@lauraa said:
Since the algorithm to determine MMR is a wash, high mmr as a concept is meaningless anyway.
A 100 hour killer is still going to be matched against 3k hour survivors.
That was the case with the old system and nothings changed. Now you just get rewarded even more for being selfish and taking as few risks as possible which is the wrong attitude to promote.
What?
It's definitely changed. I can see the difference very clearly myself.
Most of my games are against people of a similar experience level on average. Sometimes I'll lose, sometimes I'll win - but there's seldom a game where I go 'well, I had no chance' or 'well, they had no chance'. Before MMR, I could be matched against almost complete newbies or insanely skilled SWFs with thousands of hours between them. Those games were never fun.
I've also seen a significant improvement over the past month. Either the system has been refined, or people have found their correct MMR positions and everything has stabilized.
Now, there are still some odd moments and matchups - I'm guessing that lobby dodges result in parameters being widened to find a new killer ASAP, that sometimes the system is down for maintenance/tweaking and that there are situations where people at both the very high end and very low end wait in a queue for ages and get bizarro teams - but these are a pretty rare occurrence.
For the most part, my match quality has been drastically increased.
-
@Marigoria said:
Yes, camping/tunneling killers also make me want to quit the game, but my momma raised on pussy and I can learn to adapt by changing my own gameplay.
...Wut.
-
@solidhex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2659437#Comment_2659437
yeah but the Dev's admitted how it works by themselves, there is footage from some stream online (i think you can also see it in Otz' video), so basically its 4x 1v1 and kill/escape decides whether you lose or gain MMR points
Yes, that part the devs confirmed. I'm talking about...another source that I can't really discuss without risking a forum ban.
-
@RainehDaze said:
No, no, I think that still feels accurate, you're just beholden to time of day more than how matchmaking works.
What feels accurate?
Times of day definitely factor in. When I play a few games before work, I generally get longer queue times and a bit more variance - but the games still feel 'fair' for the most part.
When I play at peak time, aside from the occasional 'wut' matchup (which I suspect is due to someone dodging a lobby) it's both instant and pretty even.
-
@RainehDaze said:
It doesn't seem like a lot of people are enjoying the accurate MMR experience anyway, at least someone would be happy then?
I'm enjoying it.
Quite a few of the other newer/intermediate players seem to be enjoying it.
The people who aren't enjoying it are generally the multi-thousand hour veteran players who do seem to make up a disproportionately large amount of forum posters (I did a thread surveying hours played a bit back).
I understand that no longer getting tons of lowbies means that games are sweatier at the high end, but...honestly, that's how it should be. That's what high MMR is like. It's no fun when 2/3 of your matches as a 20 hour newbie is against people who are so far above you in skill and experience that you can't even really learn anything from those stomps.
I'd actually love to see an in-game poll for this, as Steam numbers are looking pretty damn solid (barring the standard autumn 'dip').
The major issue, to my mind, is on the survivor end of things. The system needs to take into account more than just a binary died/escaped.