I've officially reached the point where I want the old rank system back
I don't care how bad or inaccurate it could be, it still worked better than this. I have played five killer matches today and in only one of them was I adequately matched and that was because it was an instadown killer. An M1 killer would have been screwed. I can't take it anymore. I genuinely see why no one wants to play killer. Can't play for fun or get out of ash rank if I wanted too because every game is just a whole bunch of SWF groups who stomp the ######### ######### out of me before I get a chance to even make a ######### impact on the game. This is by far the least amount of fun I have ever had playing this goddamn game.
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At least with the old pip system, blendettes that hid all game never ranked up.
It isn't even that. Yeah it was broken sometimes, but I still got matched better than I do with the current system. Even when it took an average of the ranks I could play and do moderately well. Now if I'm not playing one of the 3 (maybe 4) viable killers in a roster of 25, soon to be 26, to choose from with the best perks and add-ons and sweating my rear end off I get crushed and don't even get a single kill. I keep just not camping like I see everyone else do and try to go after everyone else and every game just has all survivors leaving and the next game never gets any easier.
You are not the only one, that is for sure.
Mm.
I disagree.
The old rank system was amazing for people at high MMR and utter hell for everyone else. Before MMR, I'd be getting matched against high rank streamers and I had to sweat every single game for the 2k. Playing chill or trying different killers/perks and the like...wasn't even an option.
Not to mention that it was so ridiculously easy to smurf your ranks down that we even had some Fog Whisperers admit to doing this.
It was miserable.
Now, the system means that high MMR people will face other high MMR people and I'll generally face other intermediate types. This means that - yes, high MMR players will have sweatier games. This is the case in any game with MMR. The reason you are sweating is you aren't constantly being matched against people of lower skill. If you ease up, your MMR will drop down to a more chill level. If you start 4king those less skilled players again - it'll rise.
And smurfing is much more time consuming now, meaning that thankfully I rarely see it.
Your killer - that was fine. If your other killers struggle, their MMRs will fall.
The system definitely has some idiosyncrasies and needs improving, but honestly - going back to ranks now would probably result in me just leaving.
I second this.
I haven't been trying. That is my point. I haven't even been camping. Regardless of what I do it never gets any better which you would know if you took the time to read instead of jumping to conclusion. You can't defend it with your own experience because the MMR is affecting everyone differently. It works for some, not so much for others as evidenced by the forum and on reddit. Many people have admitted to having way calmer games with the old system compared to the new one and many people have expressed their frustration with how they are lower MMR and still matched against people way higher than them
How do they know they are lower MMR?
This is actually a fascinating piece of psychology. A lot of people who are bad at things think they are better at them than they are. Similarly, many skilled people vastly underestimate that skill.
Keep at it. MMR takes a while to fall. I know that when I started a new killer it was maybe a dozen very difficult games before it started to even out.
While I'm never going to advocate for someone smurfing - consider trying to grind BP at the expense of 'wins' for a while. Most killers have a brown addon that does this. Do maybe a dozen games, then turn up the heat slightly. See how you go.
Also - yes, the majority of comments regarding most aspects of a game, especially a significant mechanical shake-up are going to be negative, because generally people don't take the time away from something they are enjoying to make a complaint. It's the 'customer service' paradox.
I think that the MMR system has definitely illuminated the shoddy balance the game has in some areas (as high MMR always does) and that it probably needs some of it's quirks ironed out.
That said, throwing the baby out with the bathwater at this point...would probably be a disaster. I know that I wouldn't want to go back to 2/3 of my games being against BM smurfing SWFs with thousands of hours more experience than me. That would probably be it. And I think that a lot of people who don't frequent the forums (a lot of people here are the 'crusty veteran' types) would react similarly.
Somehow I doubt that. I've heard way too many people say they wanna revert back. Also I shouldn't have to get ######### crushed for 12 games just to have 1 or 2 enjoyable ones because just playing the game and getting your objective will undoubtedly put me right back against tryhards. Being at a significant disadvantage the whole time and not being able to do anything as a so-called power role completely drains fun from the role. I don't want to suffer while trying to have fun, and I'm not playing for points. I am playing killer to kill. I recognize it might only be 1 or 2 kills sometimes but Jesus Christ this is #########. I would rather just play survivor where I feel like I have some sort of power to make a difference.
See, this is the problem.
For you to have less sweaty games, the system has to match you up with less skilled people.
Which in turn makes things a lot less fun for those people.
I know that it's not great to have to play sweaty or lose, but under the rank system, this is going to be the case for a lot of new/intermediate folks. Because for you to have an easy time, they have to have a much less fair matchup. And sure, you could say 'well, I'll just go easy' (which from your own statements I doubt - it sounds like what you enjoy doing is *winning*) - but that's not going to be the case elsewhere.
Again, my own experiences were terrible until MMR and if I hadn't been basically trapped in my house with nothing else to play, I'd never have stuck it out. I wonder how many potential players didn't stick it out because they were constantly being matched up against endless smurfs or people far beyond their skill level who just wanted easier games to just smash the faces of people less skilled than them.
And yes - killer has issues right now, but these aren't to do with MMR. You are just noticing them now because you are being put up against other high MMR people.
What should be the focus is fixing these issues: reworking maps, fixing infinites, buffing about half the killer roster, addons and perks.
EDIT: My original post came over as a bit harsh. Have edited.
Yeah, this current MMR is bad.
I don't enjoy stomping people. I enjoy fair matches which isn't what I've been getting when I can't even get a hook in before 2 gens. I'm not gonna camp and tunnel to get my kills. But you clearly don't listen to others and just make assumptions of the type of person some is. You are hard-headed and refuse to believe that the system can be broken just because it works for you and a select few others. If someone isn't liking it they must enjoy destroying people and totally can't just be getting screwed by the system. I have no intention to further discuss with you.
But...don't you see that this is exactly what you are asking for?
For you to have reliable wins, you need to be paired up against less skilled players.
Do you think that's fair for them?
They also want to have a reasonable match-up, and I think that both sides being more evenly matched is a good thing for the majority of people, even if it means that people at the top are going to have to struggle more.
And no, I don't accept that the system is broken, because I have a rational explanation as to why high MMR players might dislike it, and by my own experiences it's absolutely not broken - it is, in fact, a huge improvement.
Unfortunately, the way this game is designed is something of an inevitable snowball either way. Even-feeling '2k' games are rare. It's usually a 0-1k or a 3-4k. Sometimes one or the other will occur multiple times in a row. That's an issue with the game at a mechanical level, not MMR.
It’s certainly a better representation of what happened in the match than kills/escapes.
You would at least have to do more than current MMR where survivors can hide all game never seeing the killer or touching a gen but still raise their MMR, and killers can just tunnel/camp/NoeD and raise theirs; both pretty much without actually playing the game.
Problem is they are not going to fix those issues...
With old system games were kinda mixed and yeah that was way better for a killer -> 1 skill vs 4 skill needed
It's kinda weird that killers have to suffer time to time, so they can have fun games again...
SBMM wasn't main reason for me to stop playing, but it really didn't help.
Yeah, this sucks. Killer is stomp or get stomped, survivor is getting paired up with a team of newborn survivors or a bunch of 4K+ hour types. I get frustrated with my teammates when they are all playing scared out of their minds (i.e. new to the game), but it's not their fault that matchmaking is a farce.
It's madness.
Tbh no. My matches, every single one, it was a sweat fest for killer. Very unfun.
So people have tried it for less than 2 months/resets and dislike it. I agree it's WORSE!
It got better for you with SBMM?
Weird, for me it got way worse and more stressful...
1 game 0 kills -> lose MMR
1 game 4 kills -> gets MMR
repeat
2 kills average = balanced.
We aren't going to move backwards to a system that was worse, sorry.
I watched a popular streamer playing killer last night, complaining constantly about how the game was unplayable for killer now. But they pretty much won all their matches.
If feels like people are just complaining because they used to be able to 4K evey match and now they have to play against people at their own level. The irony is, because there is now a challenge, the games in the streams are better from a viewers perspective.
I agree with this to a degree, I think people genuinely wanted more of a challenge, but maybe not all the time. I think the issue is that in many cases now, if you don't sweat it out, you 0K. It's been kind of a "be careful what you wish for" scenario.
My impression is that if you're playing at high MMR, the challenge now is relentless, which is just exhausting. It makes for better viewing, though, or sure.
That's a nice, dry, mathematical way of looking at it, but that leaves out some context.
One game (or series of) where I just walk all over some poor noobs (to the point where I let off the gas just so they're not too demoralized and still 4K) and then the next (or series of) where I get totally eviscerated by a team with 4x my hours is not what I would call a fun and balanced experience. And those extremes are where I have been living lately. Actual 2K matches have been pretty rare.
The manner in which people get their kills/escapes can vary greatly, and many don't involve much skill at all.
Clearly we're not going back to the old system, but these things are evolutionary, and this cannot be the best way. We just need to move on to the next. Hopefully something a little more nuanced.
Yeah, maybe in a year or two...
That's not how it worked for me.
When I started out as a new killer, with maybe 7 hours under my belt I was getting opponents with 1000+ hours in a SWF, who smurfed their ranks down (extremely easy to do) or that just got matched against me regardless (killer matchmaking protections were almost non-existant). You can go back to some of my first posts where I posted screenshots.
This was great for high MMR killers, as most of your opponents would be less skilled than you. It's how a lot of people did those amazing 50-100 wins in a row 'streak' videos.
It was also pretty great for high MMR survivors, for the same reason.
Who it wasn't great for was the lower MMR folks getting stomped.
"who smurfed their ranks down"
Way more killers do it now...
So I am not sure it's really good for new players now, mainly: you gain MMR by escapes, but when your whole team sucks it's kinda hard to escape, so with SBMM I would guess it's really hard to get from elo hell as soloQ...
Record for escape streak is something over 500 (Wima TV) and they didn't really lost it, they just got bored...
I mean as survivor yes. Before sbmm I faced only pro killers and it wasn't fun dying with 5 or 4 gens left. I'm not a pro survivor. As killer now is either hard and stressful, either very easy.
Do they?
I've seen literally one on the forums thus far. I guess it's...possible, but smurfing would now takes ages, and you essentially have to bot it (which, ideally, will get you banned).
You'd have to AFK/throw dozens upon dozens of games, where under ranks it was so easy to 'depip' that even a Fog Whisperer admitted to doing it 'to get easier games' for her stream.
I'll agree that survivor SBMM needs to be more nuanced. But I'm skeptical of 'elo hell' - this is something that I hear in nearly every MMR based team game and it rarely exists.
Yeah, that's how they got 2 kill average. 1 game 0 kills, 1 game 4 kills, balanced...
What survivors you play with? I kinda expected it, that it should be impossible to get from low MMR as soloQ, because you need to escape to gain MMR, but that is kinda hard with bad survivors that just don't do gens...
Unfortunately, that's DbD. The nature of the game is, at it's core, snowbally. You're either going to have 1 survivor dead with a decent amount of gens remaining in which case the game is yours to lose, or no survivors dead in which case you're probably going to get 3 or 4 outed.
High Mmr also Introduces Hackers =D,
But we don't talk about them here at high rank...
They're subtle...like my hopes my dreams
Could it be that there always were hackers, but because you were facing a far greater variety of opponents you didn't run into them as much - but now, as you aren't facing a lot of lower MMR people, they seem more common?
Hackers are Very common in High mmr when you get there...
...im getting anywhere between 3 hackers to almost 20 hackers everyday in dbd,
i've lost count the many times i've reported them and Still see them a week later playing...
Also the Bubba that just camped someone with Insidious and NOED didn't win more then the Trapper that got 8 hooks but killed no one
I did. Some streamers did too I think, I remember FarmerJohn did it.
I "abused" the fact that killers have different MMR.
So I had Oni and Blight, where I actually tried to win each game, when I was in mood to try.
Then I had Legion and Nemesis, where I always played normally, got everyone on dead hook, then let them leave. It worked great to be honest.
I didn't go really super low, I make it so I get survivors with around 500 hours +/-. I don't really want to have games where I can get 4k on 5 gens, that's just boring imo, but just wanted to have option to try meme builds, or just chill.
Survivors I got with Oni and Blight are around 3-4k, where yeah there is no way I would want to play there with Legion :D
That sounds...excessive. Watching Otz and Tofu's streams, they do encounter them but it's nowhere near that frequent.
Yes, as I said - it's doable. And I suppose you could do it like that, but you *are* having to spend a lot longer doing it and it takes significantly more effort. I know that I'm not running into smurfing SWFs anymore - which was insanely frequent under ranks.
It's something that also would have probably happened naturally with Legion/Nemesis, as you'd lose games and in time your MMR would stabilize in the correct place.
I know that when I started learning Doggogorgon, I got hammered flat for maybe a dozen games and then it stabilized.
Either way - don't smurf. It's a very easy way to bottleneck new players coming in and it can kill games (it basically killed Starcraft 2, I know that).
They need to adjust SBMM to be more than just kills/escapes.
I'm...okay with it being kills on the killer side of things. I'm not sure how this could really be better without getting overcomplicated.
Survivors - yes. It needs to be more nuanced. It's absurd that the Claudette who hid all game increases in MMR while the Yun that ran me for 3 gens but died on hook doesn't.
Today was really horrible, one squad with styptics who all used it in the first chase but even this is good enough if everone is doing gens and the killers first hook gets delayed considerably. next squad was just really good at looping and even though i played best possible perks and add-ons i had no chance (hooked every once and thats it).
I feel like BHVR really hates M1 killers. Instead of buffing them they throw out one ranged/ anti pallet killer after another, those are not fun to play against but really the only way to have some chance in this meta. The healing meta makes M1 killers borderline useless. Maybe it's because 2 of them are free and they want you to pay2win. I haven't seen an M1 killer without instadown ability in ages.
For killer could have number of hooks before each kill. You hook a player once and camp them your mmr will only go up slightly for the kill, you hook them 3 times and it increases greatly. It's just a small change but it would make a difference, especially with the killers that get stuck in a chase all match. A killer that chases one survivor for 5 gens and camps to secure the kill isn't as skilled as the killer that got 9 hooks with 1 kill - their MMR shouldn't increase the same.
Survivors definitely need the change. My swf teammate and I are consistently matched with teammates that are just useless/hiding. They don't even break 10k BP escaping through hatch while my teammate and I die with 15-20k+ (depending on match). I'm tired of deathloop because there's only so much my swf teammate and I can do in a basically nonstop 2v1. We're not getting 50/50 escape/death at all and the matches themselves just aren't fun.
Eh...
The problem is that sometimes other survivors leave a survivor on hook for multiple states through no fault of my own (RPD...you are evil sometimes). This would be punishing killers for survivors playing poorly.
I agree regarding survivor.
I agree with this post. Before MMR, nine times out of ten without fail I would play against red rank killers who were all about being efficient. Meanwhile as killer, every third game was against red rank swfs who brought full meta builds or just went for the "bully the killer" route by using head-on to disrupt a chase. The only way I could win as Ghost face was to 3-gen them with ruin/surveillance and force them to make mistakes.
Games were miserable. I didn't want to play but I stuck with it to hopefully make these miserable games learning experiences. Under the new system, I'm having a much better time as survivor and killer.
Bingo.
I think this is a case of a 'silent majority' - the 3000+ hour monsters are having a bit of a rough time, and thus they are frustrated on the forums, but a lot of newer/more intermediate players are really benefitting from the new system.
I know I couldn't go back to the way things were before. It was terrible.
I don't think the killer should get harder match thanks to MMR increasing more because survivors couldn't make their way through terrible map for a save. Their MMR would still increase for a kill but not as much as it would had they had multiple hooks through out the match.
Making hooks be part of the MMR the killer has to do more than camp a survivor. The camping killer shouldn't be at same level as the one that actually makes an effort to get hooks.
If you only got one kill thanks to bad map but you had atleast hooked each survivor once - maybe a couple of them twice - you shouldn't have a lower MMR than the camping killer that got 2 kills on 2 hooks, one for the camp and one for NOED.
Camping in DbD is just like cheese/rush play in SC2. It'll get you only so far, and then you'll start getting stomped. I'm fine with that, it's sort of natural.
I'm not...against your idea, per say - it just strikes me as a minor improvement at best.
The focus right now, in my opinion, should be on the survivor side of things.
Minor improvement, see how it does - if it needs more tweaking then see what else is needed.
Survivor definitely needs the most adjustment, no argument there. I'd just attach the emblem system to survivor side with maybe a few tweaks. 😂
It sucks too because I want to play double BP coming up and use my cakes, but all my cakes are on killers. I dont want to give these survivors cakes either.
Why?
I personally love bringing Streamers etc. because it gives everyone a decent about of BP, win or lose.
It does sound excessive, and i wish i was even kidding... but i ain't
i stream this game for like 8 hours or so, i can literally tell you...how many daily hackers i get,
even Subtle ones i've noticed too... and my reports do jack against them =I
Interesting.
Which game? Is it one of those on your Twich?
I really want to check this out (preferably without trawling through dozens of hours of video) - timestamps would be appreciated.
I've come across one overt killer since I came back 3 months or so ago and I've seen maybe 2 others in perhaps 100 hours of streaming content.