SpaceCoconut
SpaceCoconut
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Oddly enough, the "boring" "no counterplay" arguments are actually rooted in the power that survivors have in wasting killer time.
New killers have the power to have very short chases now because new perks do not have the gen slow down power they used to.
This reverse power creep is very disorienting and I didn't realize it until recently.
This is how the "gen rush" is going to be fixed, by creating a "chase rush" to balance it out.
If it keeps going this way, chases will feel very short and survivors might feel more vulnerable, leading to a new gen rush meta.
It's going to be an interesting year.
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The easiest solution would be to average the MMR scores of the group and then match them to other players with a similar mmr.
100 & 10 swf duo would get matched up with 55 mmr solos & killer.
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Considering the system is prediction based I don't think player skill is going to be the biggest factor for scoring and matchmaking.
"Skill" might play a part, but I don't think it will hold as much weight as people think.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1461837#Comment_1461837
Poker proves that wrong. Poker is heavy rng, and yet there are people who are really good at it.
This is pretty simple actually. All they have to do is define a win condition for each side. Skilled players will meet that condition more often than than unskilled players. Just like good poker players win more hands than they lose. Then they just increase your skill rank based on whether or not you met that condition, they can also increase your rank more or less depending on the skill ranking of your opponent.
Dbd actually isnt all that disimilar to poker, as often youre playing your opponent against the hand your dealt. Thats where the skill in this game lies once you understand the tiles and strats
I really like this analogy and it makes a lot of sense when you compare it to the RNG of dbd.
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@DaKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1464110#Comment_1464110
I feel like people vastly overestimate how hard it is to play hag. The only thing that takes real skill on her would be using mint rag. Everything else is spamming down traps at every pallet or chokepoint near a 3 gen or a hook and then mashing control to collect free hits. Probably the most skillful thing you do as hag is waiting to see if someone on the other side of a pallet is going to vault it to determine if you take a trap or not.
Tons of veteran players will just suicide vs. the hag because they know how cheap she is. And I say that as someone who plays a ton of hag.
I think playing an M1 killer is significantly harder than hag.
You're overestimating how hard it is to play an M1 killer. You only have to run up and hit survivors with M1. They move much faster than survivors so all they have to do is follow survivors until bloodlust builds up and get their easy hit in. Braindead easy.
/s
It's easy to say something takes less skill than something else if you ignore the finer details of each situation.
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This isn't an absolute.
Each killer has pros and cons, each of which hold different weight to different people.
In the end the only answer to this is based on opinion and personal experience and skill with those killers.
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@Darkskies said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1462064#Comment_1462064
I look forward to you discussing this on YouTube spaced you always keep it real.
🐷💖
I'm writing it up as we speak and it starts like this...
"Ok! I’m actually excited for this one so forgive me if I don’t rage at the devs in today’s video."
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@SloppyKnockout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1462051#Comment_1462051
Again - they say it's been successful. You know what else was successful in their tests? Dedicated servers. The DC penalties.
You put way too much faith into these people, lol
You clearly don't know anything about me lol
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1462006#Comment_1462006
Considering this is also the same team that said they were, "Fine with how Billy was performing", I'd take any claim they make with a dozen bags of salt.
@SloppyKnockout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1462006#Comment_1462006
This is BHVR we're talking about. Not Nikola Tesla.
The same company that:
- Left the door wide open for hackers in their DC penalty system.
- Implemented a DC penalty system before fixing the issues that sometimes FORCE people to DC.
- Nerfed Hillbilly into the GROUND after saying "We're happy with how he performs"
- Created an addon to buff his movement speed if someone is pointing a flashlight at him.
- For weeks, allowed streamers to be harassed with in game invites.
- For 2 months, allowed hackers to take control of their matchmaking system to match PC players, while playing as Freddy, against NINTENDO SWITCH survivors (just an example), where Freddy doesn't even exist, rendering him invisible.
I could go on for days. The point I'm making here is, there's "people doing the impossible", and then there's "BHVR doing the impossible".
I have zero faith in their ability to do the impossible. Or even the mildly difficult.
Both completely valid arguments considering who we're talking about lol
In this case, if it's been successful in their tests so far... maybe they've succeeded. I mean it seems like they've tested this algorithm much more extensively than they've tested the rest of the game ;)
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@SloppyKnockout said:
Not just because of the hatch. An MMR in a game based so heavily on RNG can't work, period. Scott explains why very well:
Here's the problem with his argument.
Humans have a way of doing the impossible.
Flight was impossible. The Lightbulb was impossible. The television was impossible.
If calculating all of the things and probabilities in a match is impossible, then the coder doesn't have to worry about all of the variables. Only the most important ones.
Another telling point is that the announcement mentioned that the algorithm predicted the outcomes accurately. If this is the case, then they have indeed achieved the impossible.
We'll see how it all plays out by the end of the year.
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@ratsmacker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1461600#Comment_1461600
found the streamerjk, yeah it definitely does. but some streamers try to use their audience as an intimidation tactic for some reason.
Some streamers gain huge audiences by bullying other players... unfortunately it's that kind of success that some players are chasing by trying to one-up the established channels.
I do stream though ;)
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Let's be honest. This problem exists with all players and not just streamers.
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I believe this is relevant to the discussion.. it's been awhile since I made it so hopefully it is.
https://youtu.be/r8tJ57Ir_fE -
Bets on how long Stadia lasts?
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Lifetime stats divided by individual killer would be very interesting to me.
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Killers existing on the map.
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@SIeepWaIker said:
I think Sleepy Hollow would be great. It wouldn't even require Depp or Sleepy Hollow license. Washington Irving wrote the short story 'The legend of Sleepy Hollow", but I'm not sure if anyone owns the license for A Headless Horseman as the folklore of headless horse riders had been around well before Irving wrote his book about Ichabod Crane.
I'm not sure where the license for Ichabod Crane lies or if one would even need to be procured.
The Headless Horseman, is an iconic killer, but his horse kind of makes him the killer he is. I'm not sure how you could have a horse in dbd.. talk about cross map gen pressure, but 0 to no looping due to slow horse turning. Maybe he'd has like a phantom steed that rushes akin to billy saw(i'm thinking that gross deathly looking horse on the carnival map), but he hops off at arrival and chases on foot.. summoning horse, either like saw charge/run or spirit invis.. throwing his pumpkin head at survivors would be awesome!!
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow written by Irving Washington in 1820 entered Public Domain onJune 27, 2008.
Public Domain means that anyone can use the material because the public owns it.
They could if they wanted to with no licensing fees to worry about.
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Hag - remove the flashlight burn of traps - change the addons: Waterlogged shoe, granma's heart, disfigured ear, scarred hand.
Trapper - Diamond stone base kit, or survivors can't escape on their own. - Disarming traps should be more difficult, dangerous, impossible or traps should be much more difficult to see at base.
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It's a great idea, but the horseman's horse is a big part of his character. They'd have to drop it to make the headless __man a killer in the fog.
Although, throwing flaming pumpkins would be amazing on a horse or not lol
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There are a few leaks suggesting that it might happen around the 29th of July.
Considering the PTB timing and the usual 1-2 week wait afterwards I'll agree with the guess that the patch will drop by the end of the month.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1441230#Comment_1441230
More like most people don't want to sit through someone's 10-minute self-advertisement video that often doesn't impart any more information than a line of text that you read in 2.7 seconds.
This is a fair point.
Tl;dw - If the MMR system is good, the devs will eventually shift their balance focus towards high skill play even if they don't want to.
The issues that exist now will become more apparent when players of equal skill face each other, driving balance changes to fix those problems.
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@OutcastEric said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1441169#Comment_1441169
A link to your own video LOL. I hate you
Hey man, it's still relevant to the topic ;)
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Survivor's ability to "attack" a killer's power rendering them much less effective.
Flashlight Hag traps.
Flashlight burn Wraith.
Disarm Trapper traps.
Look at Ghostface.
Break Demo's portals (questionable since he still has Shred)
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I think this is relevant. In the end MMR will reveal balance flaws and the devs "may" begin to balance the long standing issues... Like the "gen rush" which means the game will become more competitive and lead to balance around higher skill levels.
https://youtu.be/cdvyWufiGrA -
They can do this when there's a system to avoid SWF groups :)
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1430255#Comment_1430255
Come on @SpaceCoconut
I run: Sloppy, Corrupt, BBQ, and Whispers
I also like the cooldown reducing addons (but with changes on the horizon don't use addons... get the timing of her wind up and cooldown)
I don't have any "no one else knows" tips but don't force a hatchet hit use your basic attack...
Relaod after a down not after a hook (survivors will be waiting for you to reload to save)
Sometimes throwing a hatchet at a pallet or window can slow the survivors just enough to get a hit
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/170669/huntress-tips-needed-please
lol ok ok
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Learn another killer. Huntress is probably going to receive some "minor changes" since she's in a pretty good place right now.
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1430201#Comment_1430201
Tested for myself. The item didnt glow, and wasnt consumed. Im fairly certain it uses the same code as the old Franklins did when applying damage. The item would only take damage if forcibly dropped, so I assume this works the same.
Thanks :)
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/170666/new-franklins-question
No. Only if its knocked out of your hands by Franklins.
Just to be sure, you tested this yourself or witnessed it on someone's stream?
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Don't worry about it.
Some players get mad at killers for standing still...
Edit: For those unsure, I was referencing Camping ;)
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They changed him (gave him a complete overhaul) because they were happy with where he was at.
#devlogic
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The trick to countering this addon is recognizing when it's in play, then utilize the common Hag counters to take out or avoid the traps.
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Enduring = I'm not sure you need it since ideally you won't be eating pallets.
Monitor = Iffy. Smaller TR means you might not be able to mindgame medium distances since they're now outside of your TR. If you're in a chase, chances are your target is within short range.
I usually use Stbfl, Pop, BBQ, and a flex slot.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1425317#Comment_1425317
See the message above. Just remain optimistic that BHVR learns from past mistakes
If they had, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I love watching apologists try to make excuses in situations like these.
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"How do you know it's going to be bad? Just wait until the PTB drops"
Sometimes the veterans know what they're talking about based on how events have unfolded in the past.
This BS has happened so many times that NO ONE should be surprised anymore.
Mother's Helpers & Black Grease are ridiculous.
Killer power addons that require a survivor to have an item and use it in a specific way shouldn't be addons.
They should be tacked onto perks that are used for similar purposes.
In this case, Lightborn.
If you ever needed proof that the devs are running out of ideas and have no idea how to fix issues that exist in the game without player input...
this is it.
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@tippy2k2 said:
The issue is there are two kinds of SWF groups
- The group of friends who want to play together
- The SWAT Team
Group 1 is great to play with. They're fun; they get to have a good time with their friends while I as the killer get to go through my normal Killer Duties and stab people
Group 2 is the problem. While this may be anecdotal evidence, I have found that the SWAT Team is usually not only damn impossible to beat since they are in constant communication with each other but they're always the biggest toxic ######### to play again. If there is a cheap tactic, they'll use it and if they get any chance at all to mock the killer, they will 1000% take it.
The biggest issue that Group 2 causes though is that these are the groups killers remember and these are the groups that make killers quit the game because they're not only frustrating to play from a game-play standpoint, they always seem to make sure to rub it in your face and make the experience as awful as humanly possible.
The problem is that I don't know how you could solve Group 2 without directly hurting Group 1
100% this.
I think they should wait to think about the SWF problem until after the new MMR system is in place and working properly.
Changing SWF before players are matched up against equally skilled opponents, grouped or not, won't be a good idea.
The SWF problem could also be solved depending on what the devs do regarding the beginning of the match that they've mentioned before.
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@MongolPSR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1422118#Comment_1422118
It's also weird they think you live on here? when is a post considered abandoned? Or is it just called I have better ######### to do and the post has ran its course?
Can't comment all the time at work lol
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421477#Comment_1421477
I was honestly surprised to see him actually responding in his own thread lol.
I made the mistake of responding to Senzu in particular. A mistake I won't make again in the future. In general he's quite condescending to people who disagree with him and is particularly so towards me because he doesn't like my opinions.
I'll respond and have a discussion with anyone who wants to have a discussion, but when I catch myself arguing with someone who just wants to argue ignoring the original points or logic as a whole I simply stop wasting my time.
It's a general rule people of the forums should follow when interacting with an argumentative person.
Simply don't interact with them.
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What I don't understand is why do many killers have an action bar that fills as they use their power, but killers with a windup like Demo, Clown, and Huntress do not.
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@MongolPSR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/169541/the-billy-question-no-one-is-asking
Do you feel that the frustration with most decisions for DBD lies in a lack of communication?
I kind of got this feeling around the ruin nerf. Now with hindsight its very clear that ruin was nerfed alongside them developing the mass map changes. Do you think that if they either waited and released the ruin nerf alongside the map changes or at least said "we are changing this because we are about to massively improve and balance most of the maps in the game" that we would have been less inclined to get pissed. while their were some glaring ommissions in certain changes to maps I would argue overall it was a bonus to a more balanced dbd. In conjuction with the map changes the ruin nerf doesnt feel like such a severe nerf anymore on most maps. Anyway point is communication.
If the devs talked to us more about the ######### they were working on or atleast say after they announce changes that go live in the next update they atleast mention what they are working on next that everyone wouldnt feel so on edge and angry?
100%
If I remember right, we got hit with the Ruin nerf and only heard about the map changes weeks or months later. I think there were some killer changes in there too. But the biggest issue was that we were hit with the nerf with the knowledge of past actions by the devs expecting to wait several months of gen rush (which we still are) with no word on actions taken or planned to be taken other than "we're going to watch and wait"
Communication is the most important aspect of any relationship and Player/Developer relationships are no different.
@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/169541/the-billy-question-no-one-is-asking
They’ll never answer this question because you’re asking them to explain the internal workings of their business.
Besides which, “why are you doing X and not Y?” isn’t a particular easy question to answer when they probably have to balance a ton of things - data, player feedback, management expectations, allocation of resources, cost, how long a particular task has been in the “to do” pile, and so on.
How do you prioritise tasks at work? Would you be comfortable explaining it to an online forum of people who know exactly who you are and where you work why you make every decision you make? I wouldn’t.
Possibly, but there's certainly room for transparency isn't there? We don't have to know every aspect of the decision making process, but it wouldn't hurt to be a little more transparent in regards to their decision making process right?
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421437#Comment_1421437
Didn't dodge it, making assumptions based off obvious information is very easy to do.
I gave three points that showed yes I'm making observations, but they're based on facts that I listed, no?
You ignored the question you quoted while answering.
Lessons in dodging questions #4, 6, and the entire "answering another question section"
You really never have anything constructive to say so I'll refrain from responding to you from here on out. I'm waiting for a response from someone on the dev team anyway.
Feel free to argue with everyone else though.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421377#Comment_1421377
Did they change maps? ✅
Does Billy Do Phenomenally Well With Pop / Infectious? ✅
Is the only downside missing a chainsaw attack with a minor cooldown? ✅
Lessons in how to Dodge a question #3
Dodging the question can be very useful for politicians and others. Here's how it happens. -
@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421368#Comment_1421368
and I've said why, they made sweeping map changes, billy has always been a killer that's had a high kill rate, obviously his contantly high kill rate isn't fun, especially with the majority of them (from what I've seen) running pop / infectious there's next to 0 downsides to playing him.
Are you a dev? Are you privvy to their prioritization decisions and reasonings or are you assuming like the rest of us are forced to.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421349#Comment_1421349
Their priority doesn't have to match your priority, I don't see why you think it should, when they see 90% off billies running pop/infectious and 4King almost every match because of those perks, especially with sweeping match changes you could maybe understand why their priority doesn't match yours.
No, it doesn't. Which is the entire point of the thread.
I'm asking what their reasoning is so I can understand why.
You're trying to pick a fight where none exists as usual and as evidenced by your defensive posts against other posters who understand the question/OP.
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@aliberkcivelek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421229#Comment_1421229
he said he does not care about billy change because he doesnt play billy at all; he said why is billy is nerfed when there are less controversial ideas like buffing clown and trapper
@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421264#Comment_1421264
That's the reason he was nerfed, because of all the sweeping map changes & loop reductions and pallet reductions, that's it, he's too strong for the game currently. and why should the devs shy away from "controversial" things just because there are other things to also work on?
More accurately, why weren't the changes to Trapper finished before moving on to Billy?
The question is at its core about their prioritization choices.
Also, is it a good idea to change killers according to the data they currently have rather than finishing and implementing the MMR system and using THAT data to implement changes as needed to create and keep fair matches between players?
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@Angelicus23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1420955#Comment_1420955
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2LSAN91DFFXR/image.png
coldwind are even more safe and no one complains about them, it just proves hoow people trust something because a lot say so
Two of those maps were reworked to be smaller than they were.
I'll give you one guess which two were reworked.
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So with the counterplay of simply dropping the item, wouldn't that make Franklin's exactly as it is now other than locating the item?
Toolboxes are used so quickly that they won't be affected now since items aren't destroyed when they're at 0 charges anyway.
So... yay we can see the item they stashed, but we can't do anything about it and it's perfectly safe until they pick it up again unless you're playing a specific killer or camp the item.
Wouldn't it be more fun for both sides if items placed on the ground could be taken? Chest items would stay until the item was taken or swapped by a survivor.
If Survivors were forced to carry the items if they wanted to keep wouldn't the timer would allow for the players to "fight" over the item creating more dynamic gameplay?
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@xenotimebong said:
Yes but it was an optimisation PASS, and it’s still passing two years later.
Halley's Comet passes earth once every 75 years.
Optimization will be here after it circles back in 2061
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@Kai6864 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1410218#Comment_1410218
I’m sorry if I sounded rude at the start, I’m also sorry for misinterpreting the post’s sarcasm for a real suggestion! I’m not sure what’s sarcasm and what not in this community.
Oh don't worry about it!
Considering the reputation I have I don't blame you one bit lol