Sava18
Sava18
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Nurse has the highest skill floor for sure. But Blights skill ceiling is far higher than nurse. There is only one character people think is mechanically harder than Blight and that's Billy, but on the other hand Blight also has to learn more about maps than every other killer in the game by a large margin. Once you know what tile a survivor is playing, it's only reading them at that point for nurse. While Blight has to identify the tile, the collision around the tile and reading the survivor. It's just incomparable.
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Weirdest thing happened last night. I queued up as killer and my friend queued up with his other friend on survivor at the exact same time. First time we did it, we both had fast queues. Second time we did it we both had a few minute long queue.
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@Jangles said:
I noticed something interesting and I can't tell when it started, Most lobbies have 2 players that are well below your skill range. They're what it seems meant to be the "objective doers" and two "runners".
I could be completely wrong here, but its something I've noticed over the 100s of games I play a week. These players usually lack fairly basic strategy knowledge and objective efficiency.
I have seen since the dead hard update more games going to the wire at 2 or 3 gens forcing the game into a 3v1. Whether that be because of the issue I mentioned above or the adapting to the new meta or both I'm not sure.
There is a definite wider pool of skill getting matched into my games at least. But it only seems to be the survivors. The killers are still good players who don't fall for your average youtube techs.
You've got 0 chance of CJing/dumbteching someone I play against, they know how to pick up, know how to mind game and understand how to pressure someone to second state. You'll never hit a flashbang and I have never seen someone get looped for more than 2 gens unless its a bubba on a mission to take 1 person out of the game.
Match this with someone who cleanses before they unhook an infected survivor v pleg and you're going to have a bad time. 1 person is going to struggle to carry a game as it's up to the killer who they chase. You chase someone who can loop? You wont chase them until every resource on the map is spent by the baby dwight.
I feel like you solve this by culling pools by region and tightening the pool cap for players.
Unless I am going against a full swf(even then usually one bad player) I agree with you. I don't think it should be possible to get some of these survivor's in my games that don't look behind themselves while also going against the 6700 hour Elodie in the same game. I think both sides should just be able to hit a checkbox so that both their teamates and killer are closer to your mmr, at the cost of a longer queue.
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The others are right in that you will just be hurting yourself tunneling someone out at 5 gens. Once your mmr is high enough, freddy simply lacks the ability to keep up with good survivor's. You'll find yourself wondering how they got all the gens done before the person you are tunneling is even dead.
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@AhoyWolf said:
I wouldn't really base everything on stats tbh.
Demo isn't weak, he's just decent at everything, but not especially great at anything.
This. He has the most balanced kit. Not because he's in the middle of B tier. But because he does a little of everything besides insta-down.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Wow, you did not tunnel them? That would have been funnier because then the one guy has to sit there the whole time.
Huh, been awhile since I have seen the Budha around these parts.
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There straight up needs to be a checkbox to get matched against players closer to your skill level. I will wait the extra 5 min to not get matched against the 250 hour feng who only got me because I was in queue for 5 min at 3AM. It make's me just feel bad and get off the game when that happens, though I'm probably not in the majority there for either side. I just feel sad, bored and slightly annoyed in those game's.
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I get this sometimes on survivor as well. When it feel off, just think of it like they start and end slightly early.
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Gen regression, gen speedup, med-kits, map balance, Nurse(kit) and Blight add-ons being adjusted changed would make this game feel way better for everyone. Oh and the way survivor's mmr is gained or lost needs to be changed. No one in this game think's you should lose mmr for dying after carrying your entire team on your back. Killer could be changed to hooks instead of kills but I'm not convinced that would work better, it might even cause killer's to be more inflated than a full meta nurse if not done completely right.
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@Roaroftime said:
Not surprised at these high scores it’s such a killer sided game now.
I'm not for either side being overtuned, but we get it you want it survivor sided my guy.
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The problem is that CoH has no real counterplay. It's still s tier at 50% but it could go back up if to 75% imo if a perk wasn't required to actually deal with it.
As survivor you just put CoH in a strong spot with no pressure like some spots on rpd and Iron works top floor or you throw it in a area with an already completed gen. If the killer wants to go waste his time snuffing it he is losing way more pressure than the survivor's when one sets up that boon. Typically you don't do it at the beginning when the killer is still patrolling looking for survivor's but instead in the mid game when people really need to start resetting and the killer simply doesn't have the time to make his way to where the boon could be. Shattered should have just been implemented with boons in the first place and then you buff boons that need it to compensate. And it's not like people run it less, it's in every game for the most part.
These are the top 4 perks seen in my games as killer.
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This is over 35 matches. It's usually 3-4 or 0-1 in my experience though.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233096#Comment_3233096
They definitely reduce the overall kill rate. The top 5% MMR isn't showing a crazy win rate either though. I suspect the people complaining about Nurse just have a mental block about her or can't be bothered to learn the counterplay. If the Nurses in the top 5% of MMR don't have a crazy winrate who are these 'unstoppable' Nurse players? The top 0.1% The top 0.01%? I don't think the rest of the playerbase needs to be nerfed due to the top 0.1% in any role.
Other killers are influenced by your highest mmr killer heavily, so if my blight is 2200 mmr and I go and play nurse for the 5th time it will still count as "high mmr" for example.
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In all seriousness, usually a high pick rate and win rate indicate something is op in video games. But you have to factor in dbd's players slow ability to adapt I guess, so maybe one month is not enough. In league or ow for example, stats like wesker has for a new character means that character is very overpowered. Don't forget not only are the survivors learning to play against it, but the killer are also learning to play the character. Just because it's dbd doesn't mean this philosophy doesn't transfer over. But I also know a lot of people just started killing themselves on hook because they were and are tired of facing Wesker.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233832#Comment_3233832
The stats also say that Dredge is a stronger Killer than both Nurse and Blight.
Maybe we should take that as an indication for them not being a good tool to determine balance by themselves.
Yes let's give blight 20 rushes and a gun. I think he will be in the perfect spot then.
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It really goes both ways. They seem super buggy. Most of the time I end up in that weird hook standoff, the grab animation will start then an m1 hit will go off. I don't even think it's based on ping, because I run 50 ping and I check the survivor I interacted there and they are usually good too. Though I don't end up in these scenarios often enough for a full opinion.
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@BFunkP38 said:
For me he’s the least fun to play against, just can’t figure out how to go against Dredge. Nothing I try seems to work at all.
A lot of times, you just hold W. Which is why I will never play him again. Any killer where the counter play is W is boring for both sides.
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@TheArbiter said:
Id much rather face the "bully squad" than the "gen rush squad" that brings bnps on commodius toolboxes, and doesnt waste time going for ridiculous flashlight saves etc. But hey congrats on your first squad xD
I think it takes a couple hundred hours of killer to get to the point where people feel that way. Most people eventually like going against "bully squads" because it's just chases but at the beginning it just sucks imo.
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@CoDismylife said:
Not only are people crashing games but I also had my 3rd cheater in the game trying to hold me hostage with infinite head on stuns aswell as exploding all gens so noone can get out.
Leave Game, no penalty, re Q.
Live is good.
@Roaroftime said:
Absolutely. I think it's a huge improvement to solo q game play, I personally hope they keep it.
zzzzzz
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I see an ash once every 50 hours I bet. And they always seem new. So you are probably the one and only p100 ash.
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@[Deleted User] said:
You don't. Just play a different game until they turn the penalty back on :c
I personally am really enjoying Overwatch 2!
Same :)
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231034#Comment_3231034
That sporadic lacking of bump logic is where the skill expression exists, where you have to know what you can and cannot bump off of, like you mentioned with Ormond. I'm confused how you can say the exact same concept makes it skilled on Ormond, but not on swamp. That is similarly the Yamaoka skill expression. Knowing what does and doesn't work for bumps is a combination of Killer specific skill, and map knowledge skill.
I do agree with Garden of Joy though, moreso because the visuals never match the hitboxes on anything in that map. Chainsaw and ranged Killers have no chance with trusting their eyes, and have to assume there is an extra 2 feet hanging off of each object in each direction. Strangely enough even the roadside guard rails appear to have extra height above them blocking hatchets.
Because there is not enough collision available for you to actually make bump logic work, there are a few areas where it's possible. It's not a lack of skill expression if there just isn't anything around to make it work, I can know that all three objects around the tile I am playing lack collision but does it matter? Most of the time you have to go so long in the middle that the survivor would have to be not moving to actually get that hit. The short boat just isn't playable not because of collision but just how the tile is. The large boat is semi playable but any of the outer walls and the backside entrance of random garbage also has no collision., what makes it playable is the top area has collision. As opposed to Ormond where there is enough collision around and throughout the snow pile area to make bump logic work. The rocks on swamp also lack collision on some sides and again the trees as well. There can be times where rng actually gives you a setup that is workable in areas that are usually not, but that is a rarity. And with Yamaoka there is enough collision to work around that its fine, but often time's any tiles near the edge of the map that would rely on trees for a hit are forgone because you end up having to go all the way to the map wall instead. Though it depends on what is on the opposite side of those tiles. With that said all of these maps are playable, Yamaoka is by far my favorite and I myself am fine with playing it myself.
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Huh I've seen a killer dc one time in all of my survivor games.
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I refuse to play until it's turned back on. Played one game with lethal pursuer blight, got a hit and insta dc. Me and Zarina mourned her transition into a med-kit and then I let them get all the gens done.
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@Rovend said:
If you ban people for DCing you will lose a % of the playerbase.
Plus you dont always know why people Dc, would you ban someone whose internet was down for 2 sec and were kicked out?
Yes, every other multiplayer game does this. League, Cs go, siege, ow to name a few. What do all of these have in common? A dc puts the side with a dc at a severe disadvantage. The only thing that should be added is the ability to join back if your internet cuts out. But internet is not an excuse for repeated dc's.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3227423#Comment_3227423
Do you mean how you slide off of traffic cone shaped objects? That is the basic learning curve of how to use Blight. If map geometry is shaped like a cone/triangle, then you can't bump.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3227546#Comment_3227546
Swamp maps are some of the most enjoyable due to varied height without RPD/The Game's oft complained problem of excessive floors, outer tiles often being not entirely worthless in the form of pog-logs, good balance of open and walled off areas for ranged and stealth/trap players (also tall grass and short grass aplenty), and it is the only realm where skilled Blights can show off their map knowledge, due to the abundance of cone shaped objects.
Absolutely incorrect. Pale rose just simply lacks bump logic in most areas. If you get hit at a lot of the areas of the map you played terribly. Pale rose simply just lacks collision for the most part. Like something you would never know without playing blight a lot is the fact that certain MacMillan trees that are nearly identical to the other have either 0 collision or only a very certain angle with collision. Now imagine that on swamp but it's nearly every tree. There is no skill expression when you don't have the potential to actually express anything. The map is just old and was never made with good collision in mind, that's it. Now a map like Ormond where there is very little collision out in the snow field, that can be skill expressive once you know about what has collision and what doesn't. A lot of the tiles in cold wind and red forest have no collision on any wall except the very end, which can also be played around once known. Yamaoka also has the problem CoffeeCrashing mentioned where most of the trees roots stick up, making your feet touch first and thus having no collision to work with. I think Otz actually mentioned swamp being a map that good blights can make the lack of collision work towards their advantage, even though I love otz he knows very little about blight and is not very good at him as a result. He even thinks dpi still affects blight in any advantageous way lol.
There are very few maps that are actually bad for blight
Swamp - very little collision to work around
Yamaoka - less collision to work around
Garden of Pain - way way too much collision to work around
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People still defending dc/suicide on hook. Disgusting. NO other game allows for this kind of behavior.. It's not a small penalty, it leads up to a ban real quick in any other multiplayer game. So yes if you dc or give up often you should just leave dbd. You clearly don't like the game. If I dcd vs 4 old dhs every time I would never be able to play the game. The literal only time I dc is on pale rose with adrenaline vial which is 1 in a 100 games.
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@drakolyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350872/dont-even-think-about-buffing-soloq-until
Killers got their buffs, Solo Q didnt receaved one in a looooooong time. SWF's doesnt happen that often. Solo Q is a major part of the player base.
It's not too much to ask for m1 killers to get a buff in the same patch as solo queue. What your saying is like me saying "oh blight and nurse isn't every game so its fine."
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No point in playing for me right now. I run no regression mid tier add-on blight with lethal pursuer. Almost positive I get that first hit and it's a dc.
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I'd much rather lerys than garden of pain. Maps complete trash.
It has the complete opposite problem of swamp, it has all of the collision instead of none of it.
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I'm NA, so I would imagine the region that has all the tunneling and camping must be EU. And I really think tunneling one person out of the game from the start is the only tunneling in the game. At least a decent amount of people think their being tunneled when they are not.
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@ElodieSimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230681#Comment_3230681
9 times out of 10 the killer B-lines it for the unhooked anyhow. "Take agro" doesn't work like that bud. Killer mains usually tunnel out someone so they can put more "pressure" on the rest.
9 out of 10 times is most definitely an exaggeration. I have been tunneled once in my 44 survivor games this month. I know it's different for everyone, but this idea that all killers tunnel every game is just not true. It does happen often but no where near as much as people think.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229830#Comment_3229830
I understand your point about things being fine in one mmr but game breaking in another, but all I'm saying is that we should be careful how we nerf stuff as to not make the casual players' experience too unpleasant. It's already super discouraging being a casual survivor. People play 300h and are still not good at chases, still have horrendous escape rates. How long is "eventually"? How much neglect is it tolerable to inflict on what makes a good part of the playerbase, because of another ?
I get that things need to be adjusted at high mmr, but all that is done is stuff that majorly impact average-level players more than it does high mmr. Killers were buffed to have higher overall killrates because they didn't kill enough in high mmr. That's all good and fine. Except most it did was make casual, average players' games harder.
So yeah, changes need to be done, but for the love of all that is unholy, let's tread lightly on making the beginner and casuals experiences worse. This game is not competitive by nature, everyone should be able to enjoy it without it taking a thousand hours of experience...
I mean, don't we just cap heal speeds? You say this may hurt low mmr and solo queue which isn't incorrect. But just make it so green med-kits can't heal you in 8 seconds twice. Solo queues with 4 stacked med-kits can just create game speed out of nothing. There is very little time wasted when there is 3 to 4 med-kits involved. And when very little time is wasted gens just fly. Just nerf the extremes, It really won't hurt solo queue/ low mmr that much. They can still heal, its just the extreme 3-4 stacked med-kits that allow 0 pressure to be made outside of downing players so fast that uninterrupted gens are impossible.
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One thing I gotta add, if you are a survivor and you unhook and the the killer is coming back to the hook. You do not hide. The unhooked survivor can't hide because they are injured. TAKE AGRO OR THE UNHOOKED SURVIVOR WILL BE TUNNELED. There is only two times I tunnel when I come back to hook and the unhooker is no where to be found or two the unhooked survivor is trying to force bt/off the record.
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Well this isn't really relevant to most players, but blight is the best killer to bait out dh in the game.
Let's say you start you first rush close to a survivor, then you rush past them without hitting them (brushing past their hit box). At any point you can hit them and they have 0 indication or ability react to it. You also if in the right position can repeat this 2 more times.
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@Mondhirsch said:
Same.
Dead Hards Hit validation being Survivor sided was totally fine before they Reworked it.
Especially now when it's so timing heavy (0,5 Seconds before Hit) the Hit validation should be Survivor Sided again since the Survivor has to do the timing part.
Absolutley not, the way they implemented dh validation is what made the perk go from s to triple sss tier last time. If you were a survivor with 70 ping plus you no longer had to time it correctly. It came with deleting killer power instead of someone just having i frames. It's a prediction perk now instead of a free reaction perk. Perk is still s tier most good players agree. Gonna just have to deal with it.
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@UMCorian said:
Eh, if they're gloating about an escape hatch survive, they're probably a big reason why the other 3 souls are the Entity's caviar. I'd just thank them and say: "Hope you're in my next game too."
no
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@Slaughterhouse3 said:
Just curious.
100% killer main for the first year. Since 6.1.0 I have been duoing with my survivor friend more than I play killer(blight). Just because there is more to learn on survivor than killer for me at this point. And mmr is rng whether I get an even match several games in a row or play one match where I'm so far beyond them that I get off right afterwards.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229639#Comment_3229639
Just because a perk is used often doesn't mean it's bad or needs to be changed. I'm tired of seeing pain resonance but I'm not making posts on it
Yes but this adapt thing just seems like a salty come back instead of any form of discussion. You might as well not say anything. Pain res probably does need a nerf. IDC about dh myself because I play blight and bait it out easily, but you can understand why most people who hate it when there is no counter play at pallets when played properly. When a perk is Used at high mmr more often than any other perk it's probably due for a change yet again. Though I doubt they will.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3228847#Comment_3228847
Blight can take that role, nurse is outdated. If that's the argument which I understand, then don't nerf blights op add-ons and full rework nurse(not a "bhvr rework" where its just a number change).
Although I do think a couple add-ons should be nerfed even as a blight main, just saying if there has to be a killer that can play on equal playing fields with comp swfs make it blight, who at least is fun to watch and obeys any rules in the game.
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@xni6_ said:
some nurse complaints are valid, but she should remain the certified swf stomper since no other killer can do that. necessary changes tho are blink hits being special attacks, and her not seeing auras when charging her blink. thisll fix the whole having to nerf perks so that nurse cant abuse them thing, and keep nurse basically equal strength
Blight can take that role, nurse is outdated. If that's the argument which I understand, then don't nerf blights op add-ons and full rework nurse(not a "bhvr rework" where its just a number change).
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@dspaceman20 said:
I absolutely cannot believe people are still complaining about Dead Hard.
Just adapt
Bro on both sides this term is just dumb. Like people say it about everything, stop being salty. You can't believe people are complaining about the most used exhaustion perk yet again? wow. It's not as broken as before and it takes skill now but it's still s tier.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IKBMG2NQF10H/20221015033847-1.jpg
Is it obnoxious to grab an item from a "ripped" teammate before you leave?
tldr: I opened the gate a millisecond after the Rebecca got 3 hooked (waited incase of Blood Warden).
Ran to where she was hooked, grabbed her event flashlight, and booked it out.
EGC timer wasnt even half down and didnt wait for the killer to come to the gate or anything.
Do people actually find this "obnoxious" and "toxic"? Like, those items are pretty much non-existent in my games?
I try to play fair on both side but can't imagine this is actually toxic behaviour.. Or am I just missing something?
Uh what. Your saying they would rather have their item be deleted than another player pick it up.
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Basekit bt was enough for now. What needs to happen before anything else as of now?
Killer side:
Nurse needs a complete rework not what bhvr classifies as a rework ex. Ghostface and legion. Regardless of if you like playing against her, her power does not fit in this game. She Ignores everything in the game in a very unhealthy way. Every killer has scenarios where they just kill you with nothing you can do. Nurse just has LoS which is not good counterplay.
Blight needs alch ring nerfed/reworked, c33 reworked and I would say iri tag as a blight main but I have quite literally never seen anyone complain about it or run it when I'm playing survivor
Survivor side:
Med-kits clearly need a nerf, 3-4 med-kits is a loss for most killers vs a competent team
Survivor spawns need to be the same every time. Either a 4 man spawn or 2 2. 4 might be too much but really all the survivors have to do is split up. We all know a 4 man split means game over for all but the top few killers.
Both sides:
Gen speed on both sides need to be way less significant. A full gen speed up build with a toolbox will make gens fly no matter who you are playing and what build you are running if survivors split up. And at the same time killers can make games last way too long in one of the most boring ways possible, holding a 3 gen all game with call of brine, overcharge, pain res and eruption. Perks just shouldn't be able to carry either side so hard, aura reading just gives you information and how you use it is actual skill expression. But either way it needs to be less impactful on both sides.
Map sizes need to be reduced and tiles need to have less rng imo. Like there should never be a t and l into a deadzone, but more commonly there should never be shack window right into a strong filler pallet into a long wall window facing shack window.
In regards to mmr, they at the very least gotta give a option to wait longer for more accurate opponents and teammates. Because while I'm fine getting opponents better than me or equal, dominating people worse then me when killer queues happen to be long at that time just makes me want to get off right afterwards. Although the survivor indication of gaining and losing mmr needs to change.
Finally solo queue needs those action indicators asap.
The only thing I could see being a problem to implement is gen speed up/slow down. That would probably be too hard to balance, but then again as it stands now its not too balanced either way.
I forgot about camping and tunneling until the end. But I really don't know what they would do about camping personally, other than just making all hooks function like p-head cages in terms of them moving. Tunneling really isn't worse than pre 6.1.0. I know most people don't like to be tunneled but I really don't know how much further they could take base-kit things there. DS nerf is fine as it stands because of how it function with otr. If you really don't want to be tunneled run otr, dh, ds and something else.
I really don't see a need to implement anymore basekit perks as it stands before other core things in the game are changed.
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Hit a meg as blight yesterday who insta dc'd. Me and the Zarina mourned her unfortunate fate of turning into a med kit. Then I just let them get the gens done and leave. I never want to play a 3v1 and this event just gives me more reason.
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I mean, putting anymore than one trap infront of a hook is just a waste. Other than that, her web would be weaker.
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This is the only actual real "gen rushing". They would rather keep doing gens than save you.
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@rook10682 said:
As for camping, my thoughts are as follows:
Just talking about the concept of camping for instance. Many survivors are SCREAMING for punishing the killer who camps. Devs just nerfed two major perks that I can see that encouraged EFing off as soon as you hook. With BBQ and chili, it showed you where people were, FAR AWAY.So, reason to leave and GET EM...same for pain resonance. You had an idea of what gen needed pressure RIGHT then and the regression gave you JUST enough time maybe to get there. Buuut, they got rid of the part that encourages people to leave the hook. Sooo, question for you survivors...honest one. Would you prefer it this way where they get LESS info and MORE reason to camp...or they get MORE info and LESS reason to camp?
On a related note:
The problem with camping. What if...when a killer hooks someone, all generators not being worked will regress very slowly starting at 35m after hook, and the rate of regression goes up faster the further the killer is from the hook. (Nothing insane) but this encourages and rewards killers for not camping and applies extra pressure for survivors to get someone off the hook ASAP...but it would mean a lot LESS camping and both sides get a trade off for it...then you can just have ruin do something like double that speed that it goes up by or whatever. I don't see any abuse problems with this right off the bat but I could be wrong. What do you guys things about something like this?
I'm already 40+ meters away 5 seconds after an unhook, so works for me.
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@catnipthegreat said:
I understand it's a licensed chapter and all---It was cool to finally have a male japanese character in the game... but we can't dress him up. :(
Yoichi? More like Whoichi. Sorry.
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@usesPython said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3228098#Comment_3228098
Could just alternate so that both players have to play as killer and survivor with the winner being the one who lasted longer, would naturally reduce the number of prethrows because if one person prethrows everything and the other actually gets value from loops then the prethrower will lose
I still think it would be better to make a map made for this mode with very little rng involved. The back and forth is a good idea though.