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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2571909#Comment_2571909
According to the DBD twitter, though, they are responsible for the creation of NFTs. They actively collaborated on the project, after all.
Yeah, but mostly in the sense that they gave the assets to Boss Protocol and their tweet prior to that heavily hinted at the license holders of Hellraisers wanting to use the DBD assets to create NFT's.
So it's not directly BHVR and DBD creating the NFT's, they are (partially) responsible, but didnt create it. Let alone that they could also be contractually obligated to not shift the blame to the license holders. Either way, that doesnt endanger DBD in any single way.
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@Nayru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568674#Comment_2568674
uh no
yes bump broken key's uses (+ have it spawn with the yellow survivor aura addon in-game why not)
no keys were not weaker than nerfed moris (originally mori = you down someone, they die, like myers' tombstone piece, utterly insane), presumably you've never lost 2-3 people or been full swf'd the instant gens are done by people that already know where the hatch is and render your - remember me? no way out? noed? blood warden? killer-advantaged gate spawn? your chance at all past gen completion of getting anyone? - completely and utterly moot
by one key and one offering, if not key/map swf combo
Yeah, Keys were weaker than nerfed mori's(the first nerf, not the second one). And yeah, I have faced 3-4 man SWF's with keys. Keys were annoying, but they didnt really impact the course of the game that much.
Mori's though? Proxy camp 1 survivor while bullying survivors off gens, then once they are unhooked, wait 15 seconds before hitting them and then instantly remove them from the match, reducing survivor efficiency by more than 25%, making it easier to hook the second person. You would need to face the absolute best of survivors in your own skill level to not get any value out of Ebony Mori. Keys? You needed to face a killer who wasnt good at hooking survivors efficiently. You often didnt need keys to escape with the survivors you had available unless 2 survivors already died. Meaning even with the key, you had a 2k+2hatches. Where with an Ebony Mori? You just needed 1 hook to snowball. DS? Adrenaline? Any items you brought? Any other perks you brought? Useless. The only perk that would help was BT, and that only lasted 15 seconds.
They simply arent comparable. After the second nerf? Eh, keys were roughly as strong? You could still bypass DS and tunnel someone off second hook, and DS also got changed the same patch, so it was easier to hook survivors twice if they did anything related to objectives.
Keys were essentially putting salt in the wound, similar to NOED. Where Mori's were simply gamebreaking without needing a perk or addonslot dedicated to it. Not even including the fact that you could see survivors carrying a key before the game started, you wouldnt know it was Mori untill after the game started.
Yeah, keys were strong, but at least keys were part of a snowball before it could be activated, you didnt need to do ######### for Ebony or Ivory Mori.
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@Killing_Time said:
IDC how Slinger played, he wasn't viable against the best so he didn't need a nerf. Highly skilled and even competent solo blasted him easily in games. He wasn't a threat.
This is what happens when you balance games around low tier players.
So what if he wasnt viable against the best? Killers still need to be enjoyable to play against. If all killers are horrible and boring to play against, who would ever want to play survivor other than masochists?
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@ignaeon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2569113#Comment_2569113
The projectile does not leave the redeemer for .5 seconds after the slinger fires, so you're already wrong. after that, the projectile moves at a speed of 40 m/s, so to get hit in .05 seconds you would need to be standing 2 meters away. I can't find the exact numbers for a killer lunge, but the assuming it lasts a full second it reaches over 6 meters, meaning the only reason for a slinger to shoot you in that range would be if you're camping an unsafe pallet against slinger, which is the opposite of what you should do. average range I aim for is about 10 meters, so that's about .25 seconds, bringing us to a total of .75 seconds to react. Source: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Caleb_Quinn#Weapon:_Death_to_Bayshore
Don't spout numbers if you're not actually looking them up, it works against your argument.
You're ignoring the fact that Deathslingers animation is shorter than 0.15 seconds too, Slinger can shoot before his gun is fully up. And I never said the projectile leaves 0.5 seconds afterwards?
As for a killer lunge, its 0.3 seconds, you gain about 3 meters.
And even for 10 meters, you're ignoring windows, because at some point the only way to dodge an M1 is to go for a window, but slinger can aim and reel you in before you finished vaulting, even if Slinger didnt have vision on you going for the vault.
As for the 10 meters, that's pretty much when you're out in the open anyway, but that's still not 0.75 seconds to react, 0.15+0.25 is 0.4 seconds MINUS the 0.15 seconds it takes to react, meaning you have 0.25 seconds to go out of the way. And even in that scenario, only Dead Hard will actually save you, as you dont know where Slinger aimed. If you're lucky, you step to the left when Slinger aimed to the right half of your hitbox, barely dodging it, and even in that scenario, Slinger is the one who missed, because if he went for the center or waited 1 second before aiming, there was no way for the survivor to dodge it.
And I have to press the fact again that a Slinger could do this 5 times in a row while still gaining distance, making it practically impossible for survivors to know if Slinger is faking it or not. Now what other killer had issues with faking their power? Oh right, Spirit, who also recieved changes to no longer fully fake her power.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2569358#Comment_2569358
You are:
Discounting the 110 speed when it's suitable for your argument, which is ironic because you use it 3 sentences later.
Discounting missed redeemer shots from ZigZagging
It is a fact that map awareness and holding W hurts killers like DeathSlinger and Plague FAR MORE than Nurse, Wraith, Blight, 115 killers. For someone obsessed with coin flips you really like to pick and choose at your convenience.
So? His movement speed is irrelevant if he has a coinflip mechanic. Hag is 110%, doesnt have coinflip mechanics and her only way to manouvre quickly is through activated traps or mintrag, Nurse is even slower and doesnt have coinflip mechanics.
You're right. It's a missed shot, not a dodge. Slinger missing is slinger making a mistake, not survivors making a play. That is not discounting anything.
Holding W doesnt really hurt Plague, in fact, it tends to benefit her. The more survivors run, the more they get infected. Vaulting doesnt count as running, so infection doesnt increase. As for hurting Slinger, also not really, Slinger has deepwounds that force survivors to mend, meaning they either have to keep running, or stand still to mend. In either scenario, Deathslinger closes the gap since maps do not go straight forever and once you're within 14 meters of a slinger, you're at risk of being hit, where with other killers, they need to be within 3 meters to do so.
Besides, at what point is map awareness and holding W a coinflip? I am against coinflips, nothing you said had to do anything with coinflips.
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@hiken said:
when they get hit now they scream anyway why? becuase it is still the same, they didnt finally fixed it...for the killer it conected but the server will not give it cause it was a fake hit. what they should of done is fix it entirelly (not like they couldnt, servers were added more than 2 years ago).
it can feel demoralizing to hear survivors screaming and the hit doesnt connect, you feel robbed so at least make it so survivors dont scream...
Thing is, the sound comes from client side. It would be a bit weird to down a survivor and then hear them scream 0.2 seconds later if you have a ping spike.
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@JPA said:
Yeah I just had a match where I hit someone, they screamed, then they dead harded away and didn't go down. So they've basically just moved the problem to be a 50-50 issue now?
Considering Killers have to deal with it more often (assume at least 2 people have DH per game, if you hook them 3x that is an average of 6 occurences of playing around DH per game), I don't think it was that bad an idea to have it validated on the Killer side. If you're tired of being exhausted on the ground, you can also dead hard earlier rather than being as greedy as possible with it.
Thing is, due to latency alone, its sometimes impossible for survivors to predict a hit. If the killer has a 150 ms spike right before the hit and you have a 60 ms spike right before they hit, it will take 210 ms for their hit to appear on your screen, at which point, they already hit you from their perspective, while they havent even touched you from your own perspective.
Considering killers can already bait a dead hard, hit validation is fine.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
As in BHVRS servers for the game?
Curious as to their location due to the pallet and dead hard changes. I find it highly odd that I experience the deadhard hit take back even though I have a very solid internet connection.
It's not just your internet connection. Besides, the fact that you have the hit take back more often, is simply that you've been gaining free downs on tons of survivors before this change, while survivors were probably near the end of their animation. If there is a 30 ms ping from survivor and a 30 ms ping from you, it takes 60 ms for the dead hard to appear on your screen.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/290665/boon-totems-are-good-why-is-that-bad
Because if you take both of them you effectively give the other three survivors a free Distortion, Lucky Break and improved Self-Care with infinite renewals for zero cost in time or perk slots for those other three survivors.
Adding up to 9 free perks for no cost to the survivor's team is unbalanced.
Ah yes, free distortion, but only if you're in that 24 meter area around a specific totem on the map. Ah yes, free lucky break, except that you still have blood(it's more like Poised than lucky break). Ah, yes, improved self-care, except it's cost is that you cant use it unless you're in that specific area of the map.
No cost, except that it takes 14 seconds to bless a totem every single time and a variable amount of time to actually go into the radius.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
It's power creep. Power creep is bad.
What power creep tho? Since when is using self-care in the corner a power creep?
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@DorkianBae said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2593070#Comment_2593070
Killers had to wait a whole year for keys to be nerfed, while moris were nerfed without warning....Meanwhile survivors had a month to use their keys after being announced. So being happy with key nerfs is pretty funny considering the change was so easy they could of did it at the same time as Mori's shows how survivor sided this game is.
Wraith and Deathslinger nerfs were hilarous and if you think they are deserved I want what you are smoking especially since Slinger got 3 straight nerfs without any compensation. They nerfed his terror raidus. They nerfed his ability to quickscope. They nerfed his ability to fake shots. All 3 in one patch without a single compensation buff. Meanwhile both Wraith and Deathslinger were both only B tier killers even before the nerf. Shows how bad the balance team is in this game tbh.
Pig is arguably worse since they removed her most powerful addon's, her new addon's (starting with a trap on your head) are for memeing at best. They also broke her traps so they actually weren't working maybe still not working? Not sure if this was fixed yet but people were leaving matches with their traps still active on their head.
Trapper buff was nice though it's kinda pathetic how long it took them to even do something as simple as giving him brown bag as basekit...Something people been asking for since forever. He does have a few fun little addon's now though so I appreciate these changes.
If they only nerfed Spirit and buffed lower tier killers the patch would of been better. Other killers need to be brought closer to Nurse/Blight/Spirit level, not brought down from B tier to C tier. I'm down for S tier picks seeing nerfs just like any game, but triple nerfing a B tier killer in one patch is just embarrassing.
Mori's were gamechangingly broken though. You could still get 4k's when survivors brough keys, you couldnt even get 2 man escapes if a killer used an Ebony Mori. They cannot be compared. Mori's are comparable to BNP's, and BNP's were nerfed heavily 4 years ago. Keys are more comparable to NOED than Mori's.
"without compensation" cooldown after chainbreaks are faster, ADS is significantly faster in movementspeed. And arguably, he only recieved 2 nerfs. 1 zoning nerf and a TR nerf. Slinger's zoning was being able to quickly aim and let go so he would gain distance, untill the point where survivors either got shot or m1'd(hmm, what other killer had this issue but got fixed pretty much instantly? Oh wait, I remember, Pyramid Head).
Removed her most powerful addons? All her addons are still in her kit except for the skillcheck ones. She literally recieved a buff. The only aspect that got nerfed, was headpopper pig, and that needed nerfing, everything else is literally better than it was before.
I mean, it took literally 4 years to nerf Ebony Mori, Trapper was performing quite decently up untill rank 1 for years. Ebony Mori was overperforming in every single scenario other than rank 20. It's pathetic it took them 4 years to change a 1 into a 2. Same argument.
Deathslinger needed changes, he wasnt entertaining to face, he wasnt fun to face, he wasnt enjoyable to face. Even Trickster in an open field is more enjoyable to face than Deathslinger. Yeah, Deathslinger was super weak in the 1v4, but solo players exist, there is no communication in the game, this makes Deathslinger a boring to face killer at best, and extremely annoying to the point of DC'ing whenever the penalty was removed.
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@Veinslay said:
I just switched to survivor, it's so much more relaxing and easier to win. I can still escape because the devs are holding my hand and pulling me out the exit gates even though I spent the whole match kicking pumpkins and farming protection hits
To be fair, your killer play time does not affect your survivor MMR, even though killer mains are better survivor players than new survivors.
So it's kinda easy to say you are being held hands because you've been put into baby survivor MMR. If I played survivor only and switched to killer, I could make the exact same argument as you do, because when I first switched to killer, it was so much more relaxing and easier to win, I got 4k's while literally going to the bathroom mid-game. Heck, I got 4k's with 4 gens remaining when playing BK myers with 0 perks. That is how easy playing killer was when I first switched.
Wait untill you get matched up with actual decent players.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2596328#Comment_2596328
Pretty conveniently ignoring that it takes one out of four survivors not progressing the match. The others are doing just fine.
The break action is fast, but finding and navigating to the thing are not necessarily so. If it takes five seconds to do so that's twenty survivor seconds. So the net total time loss comes out in the survivors favor.
Killers move faster than survivors, if a killer takes 5 seconds to go there, it takes a survivor 7 seconds to go there. Then blessing a totem is 14 seconds while the killer only takes 2 seconds. But why would you go to a totem that survivors arent using? Circle of Healing only becomes a threat once it has 5 heals on average. As survivors need to run to that totem and heal up, often being faster if they just stood still and get healed. So Circle of Healing is only really good for healing yourself. Considering the average time to enter the aura of a boon, you're going to essentially face a bad version of Self-care, using the worst mechanics you can use when using self-care(going to a corner of the map to heal yourself with self-care is a terrible decision regardless of the situation, Boon totems only work if you go to a specific point of the map, especially since boons in the center of the map will only be a waste of time)
Boons are only good if they are easy to access, but easy to access boons are also easily accessed by killers. Thus, boons only really work if they are far away from the killer's patrol route, but in that scenario, its often faster to slightly go out of that patrol route to heal up, than it is to run all the way to the boon to heal up. Meaning boons are only really good for self-caring, and at that point, Circle of Healing is arguably worse than Self-Care.
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@Vampwire said:
I'm going to get straight to the point: there are 4 survivors and 1 killer.
The reason hex perks work on killers is because they're one time use and survivors can split up. One survivor looks for the totem, one distracts and the others do gens (hopefully). The gamble of a hex perk is what allows its powerful effects since there's the chance that it could be gone at any second. That's why hex perks work with killers.
Boons are the exact opposite.
1 killer doesn't have the time to go all over the map snuffing boons. Sure, you could find one in chase and go back, but that's still a loss of time investment. Breaking them during a chase is a great way to give survivors distance or potentially lose them as well.
There's also the fact that you can basically use them whenever. It does take time to use, but a little time off of gens for free healing is extremely worth it. Now everybody has an indefinite medkit to use whenever. This erases pressure since all that happens now is survivors run to the boon and heal. Instead of taking the time from their allies to get a heal, they heal while everybody else progresses the game.
Normally you want to build up pressure to snowball, but you literally can't do that if everyone is humping a healing totem. There is no room to snowball anymore because whenever you hit someone and switch targets they already healed themselves before you get the down. Boons create a lose-lose for killers. You either take time from juggling survivors to snuff it or you just let it be and watch your pressure vanish. Both are equally terrible.
And that's just Circle of Healing.
Shadowstep is arguably not as bad, but when paired with Iron Will you will lose the survivor unless you just charge at them like a bull. Looking for blood trails on some maps is a nightmare. Most of the time when you do find them the blood pools are already fading. And yet again if you snuff the totem you lose the survivor anyways.
Boons really just need a limit on how many times they can be placed. Maybe once per totem. The main issue is that survivors can use it as many times as they want and the effects are way too good to allow that constantly. While also demanding a time investment that the killer doesn't have.
inb4 "it takes 24 seconds to do so it's balanced"
Few reasons why you're wrong on your assesment:
1: 4 boon totems arent even close to being as powerful as 1 hex totem, this alone makes it worth for killers to snuff out a totem if it's starting to impact their progress. You kinda WANT survivors to bless totems as often as they can, the more they bless, the easier your game becomes.
2: You would need 5 heals per boon totem for circle of healing to have a benefit, you would literally GAIN time if survivors heal less than 5 times per blessing. So free healing isnt really worth it. It's only 2 seconds better than selfcare, and going to a specific point in the map to use selfcare is known to not be beneficial for survivors. You would want to use self-care as close to other teammates as possible so you could pre-heal to save time. Having a boon totem that has every bad thing of self-caring in the corner of the map being only 2 seconds more efficient(14+16=30 seconds, selfcare takes 32 seconds, that is excluding the time it takes to run to that boon) if used once, is extremely inefficient for survivors. So Circle of Healing is only beneficial if used more often than 5 times. Often it's faster to just heal under the hook, than it is to run to the boon and get healed there.
3: Long standing boons are only long standing because they are in area's where survivor objectives are not. This often means that survivors would need to run further away from the objective to heal up faster, then run all the way back, when they could remain closer, heal up with normal speeds and then go back, which in a lot of scenario's is also faster.
As for shadow step: footsteps are quite easy to track. Blood might be a bit harder, but the maps where blood is hard to track, footsteps are also much louder.
If you cannot trace survivors by footsteps because you dont hear it, here's what you need to do: Go to audio, crank that ######### up to 100%, then lower the audio of your headset/boxes/volume mixer accordingly. Just like the FOV in DBD, the Audio works a bit weird. Having 25% audio means you cannot hear hex totems unless you are up close, even if all your other sound sources are 100%. If you have 100% audio, you CAN hear hex totems, even if all your other sound sources are 25%. That audio also applies to footsteps.
As for the 24 seconds, that only applies if survivors are cleansing hex totems, and yes, that is much more balanced than before as it's nearly twice as long as normal(meaning survivors are essentially cleansing the totem and then blessing it, rather than simply blessing it).
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@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2595183#Comment_2595183
You didn't understand what I said. I suggested people who suicide on first hook (aka try to kobe) while there are still other 3 survivors alive should be penalized.
So what if there is a hacker? Should they be penalized when they want to get out ASAP because they dont like playing with a hacker? What about simply needing to go because of emergency reasons, should they just stay AFK in a locker and wait for a killer to put them on a hook? Because they cant DC without gaining a DC penalty that increases over time. What if they forgot they pressed ready and were busy with something else that needed their attention(cooking, getting ready for a night out, etc) and noticed they were put into a game?
There needs to be a way out for players. The only thing that is missing, is killers having a way out. I also think Killers should be able to open the gates and start EGC if they dont want to play the game anymore, rather than having to wait untill survivors finish all gens. Sure, some killers might use that to derank in MMR, but they can do that by standing AFK anyway. As long as survivors are awarded the necessary amount of bloodpoints similar to those that killers recieve when a survivor suicides, it would be fine.
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@Ramxenoc445 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PG98K52AXX02/desktop-screenshot-2021-10-27-18-32-45-09.png
Silent Hill map near exit gate.
Welcome to the issue of unsnuffable boons, let me put you through the helpline of survivors who have dealt with uncleansable hexes for the past 4 years.
At least boon totems do not impact your ability to hook and kill survivors much, where hexes do impact the ability to finish gens and escape.
(EDIT: not that this is an issue that needs to be ignored, it's just to laugh at killer mains who abused map offerings with uncleansable totems and Undying back when Undying respawned the totem untill it hit the uncleansable one, at least killers didnt have to suffer through survivors doing similar things because of the kill switch)
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@JohnWeak said:
Impossible to have fun anymore in the current state, survivors are way too strong now.
Boon totems are so much game breaking, it's clearly 100% impossible to win against good survivors no matter how good you are.
Only awesome nurse players have a chance now, even Blight is weak as #########.
Ruin/Undying/Devour Hope are now tier F perks, they are cleansed in less than 1 minute in every ######### trials.
Honestly BHVR, you clearly don't know what you are doing with this game.
Boons arent gamebreaking. If a survivor sets up a boon, they would need to use it at least 5 times to cut it even in terms of time efficiency. If survivors need to reset a boon, they, on average, need to use it 5 times per blessing to gain time. If they use it more than 5 times on average, that's on you.
Nah, Blight got buffed even.
Hexes were always RNG, the only difference is that survivors now have reasons to start the match looking for totems rather than just searching the totem if they need to get rid of it. 4 survivors working together could clear all 5 totems within 1 minute anyway. Boons simply created a reason for solo survivors to do so too.
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@staffilokokk said:
You know what, for long time i play i frustrated that much i even visit forum , i just cant win, im playing killer all the time since i brough dbd many years ago, i faced many problems, but its was okay, because game somehow were balanced for both sides, i mean broken for both sides, and now i just cant win, im trying my best, im downing fast, but while im downing or chasing someone, 3 other people is on 3 other gens and is on other side of the map, and im a trickster dude, all healed and good, they are can goof around, cant stand a chase for a half a minute, im stil losing, i dont know what am i doing wrong, but its just happens, im playing this game as i usually do, playing it fairly for everyone and fun for me, but now i should sweat my ass off to get 4k? Im not frustrating about surviors doing what they are supposed to do, gens i mean, im frustrated about fact that impossible for me to win, and im doing my best every game, is it healing time is a little to much or something? Im feeling like im winning now only agains absolutely pepegs
See, your problem is that you play killer all the time. More and more survivors have picked up killers and thus understand them better. Meaning no matter the situation, you're going to be outplayed simply because you're facing opponents who know how to counter your killer and how to use their mechanics in their benefit, while you barely know how to use survivor mechanics against themselves. Essentially, survivors know your killer better, than you do.
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself, but not the enemy, for every victory gained, you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle" - Sun Tzu
You're clearly suffering from the last portion of this statement.
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@galanonim25 said:
I tried him after the nerf and I have to say that shooting is nearly impossible now. If fps would look like this they would be a dead genre. Seriously u have to take a long while to aim otherwise u won't hit survivor but I won't hit survivor cause u r taking too long to aim. Its like somebody holding ur arm while u r trying to shoot. Idk what caused bhvr to change that but I wont be convinced that It was a good decision.
"the killer that got changed by buffing other mechanics and nerfing his quickscoping and thus plays differently, no longer plays the way I used to play him"
Guns in DBD should never work the way they work outside of DBD because DBD isnt balanced around having guns. Slinger plays differently now in the sense that you want to use ADS to quickly manouvre around a corner and then shoot, then force the chain to break quickly if they are healthy(its faster to break the chain and injure+deepwound the survivor than it is to fully reel them in. Why? because they buffed his stun duration from succesful shots from 4 seconds to 3 seconds and breaking a chain is often faster than reeling someone in, while hitting them after reeling them in gives you a 3 second cooldown while reeling them in takes longer than breaking the chain too).
Use addons like Bayshore Cigar and Chewing Tobacco, and that stun duration is only 1.5 seconds. You could pick up the chase much faster than you would before if you just focus on breaking the chain when they are healthy and going for downs when they are injured. Heck, Bayshore Cigar and Warden Keys might even be better, as warden keys save you 0.5 seconds on each reload, giving the same total amount of time if you reload after breaking chains, but benefits you even more over the course of the trial.
Deathslinger has access to different strategies now and is no longer a one trick pony. They arent always as effective as the quickscope, but it's a step in the right direction.
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@MarcoPoloYolo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2596226#Comment_2596226
You're arguing from subjectivity. I've stopped considering "fun" once I realized there's no consistent principle behind the killers that are complained about. Also, all BHVR did is make Deathslinger less "fun" for the DS players if you will. The problem is not solved.
You also brought up that he needed a buff in another direction, so you kinda agree with me. The NERF was not necessary. A rework was reasonable, but a nerf was not.
"I've stopped considering "fun" once I realized there's no consistent principle behind the killers that are complained about."
There is: coinflip mechanics.
"Also, all BHVR did is make Deathslinger less "fun" for the DS players if you will. The problem is not solved."
Yeah, agreed, it's not solved, but there have been plenty of examples where the devs nerf things too hard or buff them too hard when they buff or nerf another aspect and essentially revert those changes before the PTB even releases. Them taking a safer route and only going for the nerf first, checking for results and then going for buffs if needed is kinda logical. You cant really gain data from a PTB where people are screwing around with new addons, perks and other mechanics more than they are actually playing. Nor can they gain data from just numbers, since a 1% change in quite a lot of cases can be the difference between OP and useless.
You also brought up that he needed a buff in another direction, so you kinda agree with me. The NERF was not necessary. A rework was reasonable, but a nerf was not."
Oh, the nerf was absolutely necessary, as he wouldnt really recieve a rework. His addons wouldnt really change, he would just recieve a nerf in one aspect and a buff in another one. Besides, he has already recieved a lot of underrated buffs that people still need to start using regularly. Having a 1.5 second cooldown on succesful hits rather than a 4 second one is quite a massive buff, being able to move faster in ADS is really good for chase potential. The TR change is fine for now, as his TR is already quite silent the first 8 meters, 14 meters if you have a generator around you. I do hope they either give him a lullaby or make him 115% tho. Having a 32m TR on a 110% killer when they changed Pig's 28 meter TR to be consistent with other killers(even though Pig is off much better with 28 meters), is an odd decision. Heck, I wouldnt even mind giving Deathslinger 0 Terror Radius and just 24 meters Lullaby, then change his ADS addons to reduce his Lullaby, because M&A was by far the biggest reason why his TR got increased to 32 meters.
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I mean, how are they afraid exactly? I have yet to see a survivor be super terrified in-game(not the players, the character models). The only time you even see survivor character models afraid is during Mori's and other forms of instakills, which is easily explainable by them not being removed from the realm through normal means, meaning they never remember such a thing.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Not good, if the Nurse knows what she is doing. 3 Blink-Nurse should not exist at all. Yes, the Add On was bad before, but they should have changed it to anything else what is useful, but anything different than 3 Blinks.
I think the old addon was kinda niche tho, if you could see through it, you could blink through it. And there is a lot of holes you can see through. People would never expect a 3-blink nurse to go through a crack in the door or wall.
Personally, I would love it if Nurse had more addons that have creative playstyles like Spasmodic Breath. Whenever I use it(especially when used with Bad Man's Last Breath, Dark Devotion and Play With Your Food(you are guaranteed 1 stack if you lose the obsession after hitting them), survivors are always freaked out if a Nurse appears around a corner, since she doesnt have any footsteps, speeding at them at 120% or more movementspeed and hitting like a truck.
Give me more addons like that on Nurse, and I would absolutely main her.
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@NekoTorvic said:
No it absolutely wasn't and it shows a design double standard.
The devs wanted survivors to have clear, absolute feedback on when slinger was going to shoot so they could rEaCT, because prediction is apparently too advanced a form of counterplay.
The devs failed at fixing that problem, because as a survivor you still have no idea when Deathsllinger is going to shoot once he aims, you just now have a more obvious tell of when he is LIKELY to shoot.
In the process, they made Deathslinger feel clunky and unresponsive to play. They killed his potential to be reactive to certain survivor plays, and made it impossible for him to hit survivors he would have been able to hit before as they were about to reach certain corners.
They also made it so that the 50/50 is now on you. Now it's your responsibility to not only aim, but to also predict if the survivor is gonna twitch to the left or right, if the survivor is gonna run in a straight line, if the survivor is gonna move a little to the left and then stop, etc. Your weapon isn't hitscan. It's not just your aim that counts, but also your ability to predict survivor movement.
The motive behind wanting to give deathslinger a more obvious tell for survivors is hypocritical, because there is no such intention for the other side. The devs will never give killers a tell to where survivors are gonna move before they do it. They want survivor to feel snappy and responsive, which is good, I just wish they extended the same courtesy to killer.
That's not even talking about the horrid nerf to his TR. Survivors that couldn't be bothered paying attention complained, and so Deathslinger was nerfed. And now survivors get such a massive warning that he is close, that if they run as soon as they hear his TR it will take Deathslinger 35 seconds just to catch up to max range which is a shot almost not worth taking. In reality it'd take about half a gen's worth of time for Deathslinger just to catch up to a survivor if they run when they hear his TR. It's stupid.
Oh, tell me oh wise person, how can you predict when a Slinger is gonna shoot when he can aim at you 3 times per second without losing distance?
That was the issue with Deathslinger, if he does that ######### now, he loses massive distance.
"They also made it so that the 50/50 is now on you. Now it's your responsibility to not only aim, but to also predict if the survivor is gonna twitch to the left or right, if the survivor is gonna run in a straight line, if the survivor is gonna move a little to the left and then stop, etc. Your weapon isn't hitscan. It's not just your aim that counts, but also your ability to predict survivor movement."
Except, it's not a 50/50, the projectile is still very fast to the point that if you aim to the center of the survivor, they would need to use an exhaustion perk or at least need a haste effect to dodge it. Survivors would need to move before you decide to shoot. But predicting the opponents movement to deal a hit must always lie at the person being able to deal damage. Not having that responsibility gives you essentially free hits. Free hits are always a problem, because the opponent's input doesnt matter. When the opponent chooses to put themselves in such a scenario, that's fine, they knew they were gonna give a free hit, but if that choice was forced upon them? That's an issue. Not a single other killer has the 50/50 on the survivor side. Every single ability from the birth of this game has given survivors room to respond. Deathslinger and Spirit were the odd ones out.
So yes, the nerf was needed. It's not done properly(yet), but it was absolutely essential. Killers need to be enjoyable to face, Deathslinger wasnt fun to face unless you were a premade 4. Desicive Strike literally recieved a nerf that was, in terms of in-game effect, unimpactful on escape results(I think it even increased). The biggest impact the nerf had, was removing the annoyance of having to deal with DS early game, but in return, DS survives untill late game a lot more often. Yeah, you read that correctly, the DS nerf didnt change the outcome of the match, 99% of it was changing the experience for the killer.
Deathslingers numbers, well, we'll see that in 6-8 weeks from now. If they dropped or stayed the same, he's gonna recieve adjustments in other portions of his kit. If it increased, well, nothing is gonna change since he would be an objectively better killer that now plays differently.
Personally, I do agree with his TR being 32 meters while he is 110% is a bit of an odd decision, and I dont understand why his ADS movementspeed addons were altered that much from the PTB, but I do know why they were changed(the 10% wasnt really 10% increase of his movementspeed, but 10% of the movementspeed multiplier, meaning he went from 0.85x to 0.95x, while in % thats going from 93.5% to 104.5% and when combined with the other addon it would be 110%, also, its the 10% addon+cold creek whiskey+monitor and abuse that made them change it the ADS speed addon, which is still weird, but whatever)
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@MarcoPoloYolo said:
Look at the language in the patch notes. They also know it wasn't necessary. They just did it to shut the whiners up.
I mean, a killer needs to be enjoyable to face. Frustrating, but enjoyable. People hate doctor because he is frustrating, but you can still enjoy yourself against a doctor. Against a slinger? Well, no enjoyment to be had. It was literally just waiting untill Deathslinger closed the gap enough untill he could shoot you.
That's like a Demogorgon always being able to hit you once he is in range. That is like a Bubba always being able to chainsaw you once he is in range. That is like Huntress always being able to hit you once she has vision on you.
Any killer who can pretty much guarantee a hit when using his ability is a boring killer to face. Because what can you do as a survivor? Not much.
"B-b-b-b-but Deathslinger has a super weak 1v4" So? that is assuming survivors are always working as a team, which they are not. Most lobbies are 1+3, 1+1+2 and 2+2.
Yeah, Deathslinger is gonna need a buff elsewhere in his kit(heck, he recieved quite an underrated buff by reducing his cooldown from a succesful chain break to 1.5 seconds rather than 4 seconds, meaning he can very quickly pick up the chase again), but his quickscope needed to be nerfed.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2584503#Comment_2584503
Yeah I’ve noticed that too. Probably because OG 2016 and 2017 players have already quit or just don’t find going to the forums all necessary.
Also, who knows, it will remain a mystery. It did come from high school which I graduated from in 2019.
We're here too, and a lot of us have taken a break. Some multiple short breaks, myself, I took a break from late 2017 to early 2020 with some games inbetween(maybe a total of 15 games played over the course of 2 years, most being on a single day).
Besides, the forums didnt exist back then, the forums are relatively new, since old players never had a forum to go to other than reddit, a lot of them simply never come here. If you wanna find OG players, you gotta visit reddit. I ended up coming here because I took a 2 year break and was essentially a "new" player due to all the changes. The forums kinda helped out getting back on track with current mechanics etc, rather than having to scour the wikipedia for information, while players who took smaller breaks than me, wouldnt really have to deal with that, and thus never come here.
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@Beaburd said:
I think the company is doing fine, personally.
They only had a few hiccups around this patch when you think about it.
For example:
- Game crashes related to their big debut perk (circle of healing)
- Infinite loading screens
- Uncleansable boon totems
- Multiple maps disabled
- People disconnecting left and right due to removed penalties
- The original denial of being involved NFTs, following by a tweet saying they've been working for months with Boss on them
- The outcome of the NFT images (LOL)
- Long-standing members of the forum community banned or leaving
- Lackluster Halloween event after claiming they're canceling all other events to make them better a year ago
- Hackers ruining general gameplay
- Hackers holding people hostage in games
- Hackers interfering with the report system to bypass it
- Hackers taking control of their discord, with people apparently being held hostage in there and hackers using the N word in these official channels
- Terrible optimization problems, as per usual
- The treatment of some killers this patch (varies from person to person)
- Few to no response from the developers on any of these issues for extended periods of time
Wouldn't be surprised if I missed a few either.
I think they've done a pretty good job so far this time around.
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Edit 1: Oh, forgot to add the following:
- Terrible new character images (David's bee-stung face in particular)
- The new perk names for the Stranger Things Content
- The outright removal of the Hawkin's map offerings with no compensation
- The early removal of the Stranger Things cosmetic store
Maps werent disabled though, map offerings were.
You do realize the DC penalty got removed BECAUSE hackers kept people hostage?
Uncleansable hexes have been an issue since the inception of hex totems.
They didnt deny the NFT's, read the tweet again, they simply stated they gave access to the license holders to their assets. Never did they say they didnt work on it.
You cant really complain about hackers in general, there will always be hackers. The time it takes for hackers to be banned, sure, thats a complaint.
The halloween event is literally better than it's ever been, you cant really create a halloween event in DBD without creating an entirely new gamemode, and that gamemode has to fit with DBD's existing mechanics because otherwise you're essentially creating an entirely new game. "b-b-b-b-but halloween events in 2017 were good", not really, they were a nice change, but they essentially slowed games down to a gigantic extend that Ruin can be jealous of, gave killers the power to decide who does and doesnt get points, meaning you kinda wanted to only play killer in those events cus otherwise you'd be #########, meaning no one would play survivor.
As for the treatment of players, I mean, that applies to both sides. Lots of killers essentially holding games hostage with old Undying claiming they were "only playing the game their way". Or did you mean the balancing? Because the balancing was quite good. Yeah, annoying killers got nerfed a bit. But lots of killers got buffed. Spirit doesnt really need anything, really, she's still comparable to Blight, she's just no longer stronger than Nurse(considering all maps and addons, not just their basekit). Deathslinger does need minor adjustments to compensate, I am still kinda baffled why they changed his ADS movementspeed addons out of the PTB, they didnt really need changing tbh considering the terror radius is bigger too, but I am assuming that combined with M&A and the ADS TR reduction addon would have been a bit much. I'd argue against that, as I'd think that combination would at least require 3 slots now, while back in the day it only needed 1 slot.
As for the last 4 points:
David having a potato face could easily be due to a different issue that would need to be solved first, you might patch up the face and next patch have Jake with bee stings. Solving that issue would be worth more.
The names for the perks needed to be renamed due to license agreements, BHVR would be breaking license agreements if they kept the old names.
There have been plenty of things straight up removed without compensation, just like things being added without you having to pay anything for it. Pig's addon changes literally means you gained 1k BP per workshop grease addon and 3k BP per VHS tape without you paying anything extra for it.
As for the early removal, you can still purchase the outfits. It's a bit of a preparation leave for the characters so they can be removed fully on the day they need to be, because if they stick around after that day, they would be breaking license agreements. DBD never had to deal with removing things from the roster, so it's a bit clunkier.
There are issues with DBD and BHVR, but not all of them are issues because of them. Especially considering a lot of the devs want to make changes that the player base wants, but they cant because their changes have to go through the people who created the vision of DBD, and if they disagree, the change isnt put in. McLean basically pulled a "I am leaving, but before I leave, I dont want a severance package, I want these changes in the game" to get his changes through.
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First off, if a boon totem stands for longer than 4 heals, thats kinda on you. Spending 14 seconds on getting a "medkit" that you need to run to that can be destroyed in 2 seconds, even if it can be applied over and over again simply isnt worth it for survivors.
Besides, Medkits overall are fine, the problem with medkits lies into the fact that you can bring a medkit to the trial without needing to pick it up from a chest first. The whole reason Circle of Healing is balanced, is because you have to spend 14 seconds, to then heal yourself in 16 seconds. That's only 2 seconds faster than selfcare. If 4 survivors selfcare there, you'd still have an average healing time of 19,5 seconds per heal. If you have to constantly reapply the boon, you can see how quickly it will lose value.
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@SasukeKun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592101#Comment_2592101
You can still use the perk just like a killer can use a hex, once it's gone its gone. Let's get off the easy mode mindset
Alright, so Boon Circle of Healing can be buffed to 500%? I mean, 100% isnt high risk, high reward, especially not when you need to spend 14 seconds applying it.
Hexes are applied instantly, without killers having to do anything, with very powerful effects that can lead to game changing results if left alone.
Boons require 14-24 seconds of application, dont really do much that other perks cant do either with more consistency(Dance With Me and Deception remove scratchmarks AND blood for the next 4 seconds without needing to spend 14 seconds cleansing a totem; We'll Make It gives you 100% healing speed that you can use anywhere on the map for the next 90 seconds) and require the survivor to be there. Hexes do not require the killer to go into a 32 meter range of a hex to apply Devour Hope.
You cannot compare boons and hexes, the only thing they share in common, is that they are applied to totems. Their mechanics have completely different purposes and are balanced towards those purposes.
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@BattleCast said:
They are a problem. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I believe that almost all exhaustion perks are entirely too strong and beat out every other type of perk in the game besides Unbreakable in certain situations. They are destroying the game by creating an unshakeable meta dominated by chase-oriented perks. I'm tired of running them as survivor if I want to win and I'm tired of dealing with them as killer.
Tell me, why would I ever bring a perk that allowed me to see the auras of my teammates around me over an exhaustion perk. There is literally no reason to unless you just straight up don't care about winning. Why would I bring a perk that allows me to see the killer's aura when a generator is completed? Dead Hard is an option, that allows me to possibly extend the chase by minutes. So screw Dark Sight that's useless compared to Dead Hard. That is what I am thinking as I go to select perks.
What would I do? Nerf all speed increase exhaustion perks to 130% speed and put some sort of breathing penalty on exhausted survivors making them easier to track during a chase. This would make it so survivors don't just gain as much free distance just for existing, and there is a sort of trade-off. Gain free distance in a chase, but become an easier target. Of course, the speed increase will always be worth the stealth penalty, but at least there is now a better chance for the killer after the survivor gained free distance.
Dead Hard should slow you down at the end of the animation, but keep the I-frames. That way it can't be used as an "oopsie, made a mistake, let's just pretend that never happened :)" button. This would force survivors to use the perk as it is intended; a perk that allows you to juke the killer as they swing for you.
Anyways, rant over. What do you guys think? Are exhaustion perks a problem, yes or no?
Nah, the only one that has some issues is DH, and even those issues are depending on map design more than perk design.
Also, do you know what nerfing chase-oriented perks would lead to? Buffing generator oriented perks to compensate.
Besides, I dont rely on exhaustion perks to win. Exhaustion perks very rarely are the difference between winning and losing. I've had a few times where I was like "if I had X, we would have won", but that's not just exhaustion perks. There have been plenty of times where if I ran Buckle Up, we would have won. Yes, Buckle Up has been THE perk that would have made the difference between a win and a loss, since I would know who of my teammates were ready to be picked up.
Also, survivors do have a breathing "penalty", its not even limited to exhaustion, it's even applied if they start walking from sprint.
Exhaustion perks arent the problem, loop chainability is.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2591984#Comment_2591984
If it gets stronger, that is a buff.
I mean, it's not stronger, its more consistent. That's like saying pallets got buffed or nerfed because of hit validation.
There are moments where DH shouldnt have worked, but still did.
There are moments where DH didnt work, but should have.
Hit validation at least makes sure that doesnt ever happen.
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@zumer said:
Return map generation to how it was in 2016-2018. I mean the number of items, pallets and fog. The assassins are too powerful. So much so that he lost 9 matches out of 10.
I think if I were to play super selfish and only for the sake of escaping, not helping teammates unless it's in my benefit(aka, them having shown they have an average of 30 seconds per health state in chase, meaning healing them is beneficial to my escape), I could easily escape 80% of my matches.
But I think that's kinda one of the problems in DBD, that survivors are not considered a team, and thus not balanced around survivors being a team.
There is a reason why we want a communication system in the game, so solo survivor gets buffed to the level of SWF, so that in return, killers can get a basekit buff too(Fire Up as basekit at the very least, being able to remove pallets faster when survivors are closer to their goal is kinda important, the fact that the situation during the EGC can be exactly the same situation as the start of the game because an area has never been looped, is kinda an issue)
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@AkiTheKitten said:
The main reason gens and slowdown are even an issue is because of map size. Tune it down so we can have atleast one good balance change
Map size isnt really the issue tho, patrol potential is. RPD isnt a bad map because it has a lot of paths, RPD is bad because it's nearly impossible for killers to patrol gens. Mothers Dwelling isnt a bad map because its big, Mothers Dwelling is bad because sometimes there isnt even a single 3-gen potential.
Move 1-2 generators slightly closer to the center of the patrol route, and those maps are fine.
Let alone that the biggest reason for generator issues comes from the chainability of loops. If a survivor goes from 1 loop to the next, they need to be at risk of getting hit, or they need to have stunned a killer. Right now, you dont need to stun a killer. I actually think Bloodlust should be removed and be replaced with a generic movementspeed buff when outside of chase(with a 10-15 second cooldown after 1 chase has ended, dont want killers like Wraith or Blight to catch up too fast ). That way, a killer has more mobility when not in chase, which is important to pretty much all killers, and smart killers could avoid chase as long as possible by walking backwards, giving them the ability to catch up to survivors holding W faster, while making loopable tiles much more important to a chase.
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I mean, I've had games where I was actively bullied, and games that would seem like me being bullied but simply facing opponents that were much, much better than me.
And this happens on both sides. I've had killers actively keep punching me on hooks, tunnel me and keep me slugged while slug camping me, even games where killers simply slugged everyone for 4 full minutes with the comment that "i bought the game, I do what I want". I've had survivors use Haddonfield, 3 hook distance offerings, saboteur and sabo-toolboxes while also running flip flop, unbreakable and break-out with their end game comment being "at least we didnt rush gens", as if gens being rushed matters if you can barely hook anyone. If it wasnt for unbreakable, I would have slugged everyone that match and let them wait out those 4 minutes. I was so close to pulling off bloodwarden too.
But there are also plenty times where I had super memorable times where players either outplayed me so good I simply couldnt kill them/escape without them killing me or where I outplayed them. Or when something really silly simply happens, there is an awkward stare-off and we just act like it never happened.
This game is an emotional rollercoaster.
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@melodyabusa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2590060#Comment_2590060
The boon was nerfed because killers complained that the totems overlapped. The patch notes outline that. It doesn't matter to have a key anymore because if you're slugged you can't escape through the hatch with a key as the last survivor.
You do realize that overlapping boons were an issue, right? As in, with the right build, it was impossible to down a survivor, right? There were locations where you could essentially trap a killer in a small room, then heal the survivor before the killer came out of a cooldown.
That's a problem, you cannot have overlapping healing buffs that apply to everyone at 100%. It would only be fair if the totems were nerfed to being 40% each, OR no longer stack when overlapping.
What would you rather want? Weak ass boon totem that doesnt do ######### untill they overlap, or good boon totem that doesnt stack when overlapping?
As for the 24 seconds, that only applies to blessing hex totems, dull totems still take 14 seconds to bless.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2587941#Comment_2587941
Thing is - none of those are a reason to DC. It's a bug, and it happens to killers too.
Moreover, I'm not seeing people DCing because of a bug. I'm seeing people DCing the second I down or hook them, which means that they are doing this out of pure spite.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2587953#Comment_2587953
In the words of Spock, 'the needs of the many' and all that. The solution can't be to just give people the power to troll/grief games at will, indefinitely.
its not indefinitely though, its untill the issues that have no solution yet.
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@OvercomeTrout40 said:
With the current state of DBD the game is and has gone down a path it can't get out of. The things people say are unfair would be perks, item/add-ons, looping, and the objective for both. The thing is that is literally the game. It's always been this way and I'm not here to argue why these things are unfair or bad, I'm here to tell you the only to fix the game currently would be to basically redo everything in the game. And the devs are not going to do that. It won't die until a new, better game rivals it and that is already on the way. You can discuss why I may or may not be wrong but it is the truth. The game is too broken to be fixed, the only way is replace it all and that's not happening. Have fun while you can, if you even can.
Well, I've been here since the beginning of DBD, so lets break something down:
Items, not broken, the only broken thing about items is that you can bring an item with you without spending any time obtaining it in game. If you would need to run to a player specific chest and spend 12 seconds getting your item, suddenly, items are fine.
Addons, eh, some killer addons are still broken(yeah, BNP's or any other survivor addon's brokenness is pretty much the same reason as some items like Commodius being super strong, if you need to spend 12 seconds getting a toolbox with BNP, it's suddenly no longer game changing unless used to break 3 gens, super powerful, sure, but unfair? Nah), but most addons are fine, if not a bit weak.
Perks, there are about 2-3 perks in the game right now that are objectively too strong, the rest is only super powerful under very situational circumstances that are pretty avoidable in the first place, or laughably weak.
Looping, this one is unfair due to the design of maps. At this point in time, killer seeds on maps are a must. You cannot really loop a killer if all the tiles are in that specific killers favor, nor can you really die to a killer if the loops are heavily against that killer. What that killer seed should do? Affect how many breakable doors, how many unsafe pallets, maximum of jungle gyms that can spawn(I'd say Blight is capable of handling 3 on even his worst maps, but do more than 1 and Myers can have a serious problem), minimum of jungle gyms that need to spawn. How many T&L walls, how many dead zones. A killer seed would pretty much solve most map issues, because low mobility killers would have it a lot easier in m1 chase on maps where it matters, where high mobility killers would have it a bit harder.
The devs really dont need to redo the entire game for the sake of balancing. Just 2 changes(killer seed, player specific chest) and the game is in a very healthy state. The reason why the devs DO need to redo the game, is in terms of longevity. Because the core of the game wasnt designed to hold a lot of DLC, there were 4-5 planned DLC's, we're at DLC number 25. 5 times as many as planned. Games that arent designed with the purpose of expanding a lot, tend to suffer from heavy spaghettification.
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@Thr_ust said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568744#Comment_2568744
Considering how adamant steam seems about that rule. I doubt they’d care at all about a loophole like that and will ban it anyway.
Nope, they are banning games that directly are responsible for the creation of NFT's and only give access to content through those NFT's.
In both cases, DBD doesnt do this.
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@BlueMeansDeep said:
How do these people sleep at night? They intentionally misled us into thinking it was only the pinhead IP side doing this.
Not really, the only thing they did differently with Pinhead than any other model is making it viable for NFT's. That would have been done by the IP anyway, because the IP has access to the models and keys anyway. All they need to find, is a 3rd party that makes the models available for NFT's, and in that scenario, BHVR would still have done 95% of the work for the creation of the NFT, as they supplied the models and the in-game codes.
Regardless of the situation, BHVR would have been the biggest responsible party for the NFT.
Let alone that NFT's arent actually directly the cause of a carbon emission stamp, that blame still lies at governments refusing to replacing coal plants with nuclear plants.
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@Raccoon said:
....that the population is stable/more or less unchanged.
It will be interesting to see if it increases with the content drop, given the vocal outcry.
The vocal majority is almost always a minority.
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@GannTM said:
You’re defending a company that’s supporting an environmentally harmful scam that has no benefits. Defending them for releasing crappy patches is just whatever but are you actually serious right now? NFTs are awful they along with the people associated with them should have no reason to be tolerated whatsoever.
I’m just absolutely disgusted right now and it’s such a shame because I was looking forward to today as Spirit got a great update. Now I don’t even want to play the game anymore. Good job devs.
NFT's are as much as a scam as the art world is. And the environmentally harmful argument is more on governments refusing to use clean energy sources. If governments pulled through 10 years ago and started replacing coal power plants with nuclear power plants, there was no environmental argument to be held here. The best the people who use the electricity to create blockchains and prove of stake/prove of work can do, is make the process more efficient and consume less electricity. But that doesnt take away that the governments are responsible that electricity is mainly carbon fueled in the first place.
And before you try to argue, all total disconnects on DBD has had a bigger carbon footprint than NFT's. Because you had to connect to a server that was idle, and taking a server from the idle state to an active state will increase it's carbon footprint.
If you think art is a scam, yeah, you'd be correct, art is incredibly overinflated, with people literally recieving millions of dollars for taping a banana to the wall. But that is more upon the license holders of Hellraisers than BHVR. You can be somewhat mad at BHVR for supplying the license holder with the content that they owned. There are plenty of companies that would have turned it into an NFT anyway. BHVR would still have helped creating that NFT because they created the 3d models. Would you still be mad then? All they did was help convert the file after creating the models. And the models were created for the game. It's Boss Productions that wanted to claim the models back to sell for NFT's. And they would have all the legal rights too. So regardless of the situation, the only extra thing BHVR did to help was convert the files. They could have converted the files somewhere else, and BHVR would still be blamed.
If you're gonna be pissed about something, at least be rationally pissed at something. And sure, perhaps BHVR only could get access to Hellraisers in exchange for the NFT models and codes. In which case, you should still focus most of your anger more towards governments and the art world in general, but then at least you can be slightly pissed at BHVR for conforming, for good reason.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2569113#Comment_2569113
You are incredibly disingenuous. The counterplay is the fact that even with Monitor and Abuse, if you are not a potato you can gain tons of distance on DS before he even has the option of shooting you. If you're in the open, greater than 15 meters away, you can additionally use LOS, Zig Zagging, and light feints to dodge the spear. This isn't hypothetical, it is something survivors ACTIVELY do every game I play him, and every game I play against him.
I cannot even count the number of games where survivors who can rub 2 brain cells together are already frolicking off into the fog anytime I approach them, forcing me to spend considerable amounts of time chasing them, and then dependent upon the loop I may be stuck breaking pallets or slow traversing T walls hoping bloodlust kicks in.
Survivors be ridiculously spoiled.
Edit: I changed two words for clarity purposes, as I do not believe you contain the 2 aforementioned brain cells above.
I mean, that is literally counterplaying any killer ever. Break LOS and you can do a lot, but against a good deathslinger? Zigzagging is just gonna lose you distance faster, at which point he can literally just shoot you faster.
And holding W isnt counterplay to deathslinger, its counterplay to any killer. But once they are within 15 meters, there is nothing survivors can do. If they loop, they will just be shot through a window, so the only counterplay against Deathslinger is literally holding W against a wall and hope you dont get stuck.
That's not really counterplay to Deathslinger's ability, that's counterplay to killers in general.
And dont get me wrong, I can loop a slinger on any map that has walls, but thats more because he is a 110% killer, that doesnt excuse any coinflip mechanics
Also, to the contrary, it only takes 1 braincell to see issues with coinflip mechanics, and it takes at least 3 braincells to see that general counterplay to killers isnt counterplay to any specific killer. Thats like saying holding W and camping pallets while your teammates genrush is counterplay to Myers specifically, when that is literally counterplay against every single killer.
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@ignaeon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568971#Comment_2568971
You keep saying survivors shouldn't have to deal with coin flips, but don't address that killer gameplay against a competent survivor is nothing but trying to react to coin flips.
No coinflips there. Pallets arent coinflips. You can bait a pallet drop or even hit a survivor before they drop the pallet. The only "coinflip" is DS, but that only happens if you tunnel or a survivor doesnt do ######### for 60 seconds(which is worth the 5 second stun tbh).
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@ignaeon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565394#Comment_2565394
It's not a map balance issue when it affects the majority of maps, it's a game issue.
A survivor who loops/disengages perfectly won't be caught by the killer until they reach a high bloodlust, and even then it's likely they can still last a loop or two. The reason survivors don't see it this way is because of how severely even the slightest mistake is punished by a good killer.
Not how it works, when survivors have an average of 2.3 deaths on one map, and an average of 1.2 deaths on another, it's a map issue, not a game issue. Every single person that has experience in the game will tell you that it's a map issue more than a game issue. Genspeeds are fine if they are slightly easier to patrol. If loops are slightly harder to chain, its so much easier for killers to mindgame and have shorter chases if they play well.
Maps are 100% the issue. If you can go from a jungle gym into a 4 wall into killer shack without dropping pallets and without mindgaming the killer, they are simply too close to each other. No changes to killer is going to fix the map issue.
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@ignaeon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568631#Comment_2568631
"Humanly impossible to counter" is a blatant lie, you could easily use most maps to break LOS.
Killer gameplay is almost nothing but calling coinflips survivors give us, the idea that survs should be able to juke anything but an m1 is stupid, even if bhvr agrees with it and is balancing the game around it.
A quickscope is 0.15 seconds before you can shoot, at which point the projectile hits you within 0.05 seconds. The fastest possible human reaction is 0.15 seconds, and that is reacting to an instant, not to something repeating.
So yes, humanly impossible to counter.
And no, survivors dont have coinflips, coinflips are moments where your input doesnt matter. A 50/50 isnt neccesarily. And yes, a survivor SHOULD be able to juke anything that directly leads to a health state. Just as a killer SHOULD be able to injure at any given oppertunity they can injure. Which is why killers can still hit a survivor even if they started dropping the pallet. Heck, survivors are even able to juke an m1. It's called spinning. Works less and less the better the killer is, but even m1's are jukable.
If you cannot juke something, your input doesnt matter and when input doesnt matter, there is no interaction. If there is no interaction, it's objectively a boring mechanic. If it's a boring mechanic, it needs changes to be more enjoyable.
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@MarcoPoloYolo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568257#Comment_2568257
Once again, what are you arguing? You made this massive reply to Botrax and haven't even refuted what he said, but reaffirmed it (particularly here). You are just saying you think that the devs behaving this way is good, but it's not.
DS is not ridiculous to play against. You have the tools to win. You simply find him annoying, that is all. The devs responded by attaching a net negative to a kit that was simply decent at best from an objective standpoint because survivors didn't like DS. That shouldn't happen. And no, they're not simply being cautious. The stealth and the anti-loop's strength is what people found annoying with DS (basically DS himself). The Stealth was gutted despite that, contrary to what the forum's believe, was a core part of his design (to the point add-ons are centered around it), and his anti-loop, while still good, is weaker. There's no bad direction to go that warrants caution. If he's getting curbed this hard, his power clearly needs to be giving him other benefits because his ability to win matches wasn't the problem, making net negatives unacceptable by concept alone.
Nope. Billy did not need those changes. Calling what Hillbilly does free zoning also shows you don't understand his mechanics are and what free zoning is. He has a built-in penalty for missing his chainsaw, so he can't intentionally whiff just to seal off a window or pallet unless he had cool-down add-ons (which is the add-ons, not the base kit). He also has a charge bar, which forces you to either A. Keep it low, making what you do nothing but an empty threat B. Keep it high, risking having to go through a lengthy canceling process where survivors are faster than you. By bringing up free zoning, are you just copying what Scott Jund says about Slinger and Demo and applying it to Billy while not understanding what he was actually saying? Billy didn't have free zoning, just zoning since his kit already has a cost associated to it. The overheat mechanic is just a double penalty, which is stupid.
Please tell me you're trolling. You can't unironically be saying that survivors have weak perk strength relative to killers. A lot of survivors have good utility perks that are only overshadowed by blatantly overpowered ones. Killers, on the other hand, are loaded with legitimately useless perks or perks so niche, that they are only ok on 1 or 2 killers. Some of the perks actually have nice effects, but are on far to long of a cooldown. This is why the last 3 chapters were actually great for killer gameplay, because we're now getting perks that don't just collect dust.
You also revealed you haven't seen the average kill rates. They already are close to 50% (buff Nurse). The reason for high kill rates was bad survivors. It was a matchmaking issue. Also, guess who's in the bottom half of kill rates? DS, who's getting a net nerf.
His argument was that Billy didnt need changes, yet, he did. From a gameplay perspective, infinite zoning for free is an issue. That alone warrented the overheat mechanic. They overdid it, sure, but that doesnt make it a bad mechanic. As for the addons, yeah, they were far too careful. But to be fair, they literally have tons of data where Billy literally never used addons, just perks and consistently won games.
No, I dont find him annoying, he is objectively a badly designed killer. Being weak in everything does not validate coinflip mechanics. As for stealth, well, not really. If you look at his addons, his stealth should only have been a factor when he uses ADS. Yet, who used ADS for stealth? No one. So his stealth got nerfed, and his ADS stealth got buffed. As for net negatives, they didnt know how much their ADS changes would benefit him. It could easily have benefitted him more than enough to make his chases shorter on average. If that was the case, you literally cannot make him a 115% killer, because it would make him faster AND make his chases shorter. So yes, the devs are being careful. It wasnt known to be a net negative untill practice has shown it. Changing theoretical numbers and predicting practical results is very hard to do. Remember people getting mad at Spirit losing collission with survivors while she was phasing? People claimed it would destroy her, it didnt. And that is quite a massive change. While making a tiny adjustment to Trappers trap reset(where it would stay in the place it was placed at, rather than snapping to where the survivor was caught), was such a tiny change, but had a massive impact. It is very easy for 1 tiny change to have a bigger impact than you might expect.
Yes, he did. Getting a penalty from missing an instadown, is punishing an instadown, not zoning. As for A and B: survivors dont know. The animation for 0.1% charge and 99% charge is EXACTLY THE SAME. That's free zoning. And no, I am not copying Scott. Free zoning is literally being able to push a survivor into a zone purely because of a threat without having any real penalty for doing so. Billy did not have a penalty on his revving while he still had free movement. Bubba didnt have free zoning, because his animation gave away his revving. You can still as a billy rev in front of a locker and go into a locker grab, without survivors knowing if you're at 99 or 0%. If you're at 99 and they jump out, its an instadown, if you're close to 0 and they dont jump out, it's an instadown, Bubba doesnt have this, as his chainsaw lowers before he can grab. So yes, a double penalty makes sense. The overheat mechanic is still too severe, and should lower faster outside of chases(same rate when overheating, which is 6.6 charges per second or so, while normal reduction is 3.5), while lowering slower during chase unless you overheated. Because if you overheat a chainsaw in a single chase, you've been using it to zone too much. The biggest issue with Overheat, is that it applies outside of chase equally as inside of chase.
And yes, survivor perks are objectively weaker than killer perks. 90% of survivor strength comes from items and map resources. Perks only sprinkle a relatively tiny bit on top of that. And most killer perks get ignored for the same reason most survivor perks get ignored. A lot of killer perks that you'd call niche, are actually really good. Just as the survivor perks that survivors call niche are really good. They are simply overshadowed by the same 6 perks. Heck, to drive this even further home, there are survivor perks that should be basekit for solo survivor, there are barely any perks that should be basekit for killers. The only perks I can think of that I would want to be basekit for killers are Fire Up(faster actions overall the more gens are done, it makes the endgame feel more like an endgame), Monstrous Shrine(its a bad perk, but it would be really nice if it's basekit) and a weaker version of Dying Light that applies similar to Thanatophobia, where each hook adds 1.5% slowdown(again, basekit) to healing and generators, but that slowdown is lost when that survivor is killed, encouraging killers to leave people who are dead on hook alive rather than killing them as quickly as possible. That's only 2 and a half perks that should be basekit.
Survivor perks that are so bland that they should be basekit for solo survivors, since it offers pretty much the same information as a 4 man swf:
Kindred, Bond, Buckle Up, Deja Vu, Empathy, Kindred, Left Behind(especially now), Rookie Spirit and Situational Awareness(better known as Better Together).
That's 9 perks that need to be basekit for solo survivor alone to compare with the information of a 4-man SWF. That's not even talking about perks that should be (partially) basekit like Flip Flop(if you slug a survivor on the floor long enough that they can fully recover, that should affect the wiggle speed at the very least, you could even make it 25% basekit with Flip Flop being changed accordingly), Wake Up(if you're the last survivor alive) and maybe even a rudimentary decisive strike(one that only activates if you are chased within 15 seconds after an unhook, purely to punish tunnelers) so that the actual DS can be used to prolong that timer instead.
So in total, we have 12 perks that can be argued to be (somewhat) basekit, when there are only 3 killer perks at best that should be basekit, because otherwise there are too many other perks that it could stack with.
The fact that we can have 9 perks alone that need to be basekit to equalize solo survivor to SWF, when there are barely any killer perks that can be basekit without breaking the game, pretty much shows that survivor perks as a whole are weaker. Are there strong survivor perks that are at the level of some killer perks? Sure, definitely, but even if you have 4 survivors running the 4 best perks, I can point at killer perks that are objectively stronger than those perks combined. The bigger issue that killers have, is map mobility and design. That is the biggest reason why killers and their perks feel weaker than they actually are.
And no, the reason for high kill rates wasnt bad survivors, plenty of amazing survivors that still died. The bigger reason was solo survivor. If survivors all had access to a ping system, the kill rate would easily drop to below 50%. And as for average killrates, well, Trickster has been altered quite a lot, and Nurse is heavily skillbased. So its quite obvious why those 2 killers are under 50%. And let alone that most killers do not actually run Ruin Undying anymore either.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568263#Comment_2568263
I hadn't meant too argue against the hatch. I just meant the green key shouldn't let survs have easier escapes just to give it extra power and get rid a wasted chest search
Oh, no I agree with that, I've always seen the green key as the intended aura reading key. But even then, it's ######### at that.
Skeleton key has 30 seconds of aura reading(20 if you use blood amber), which makes sense because the dull key(5 seconds) is pretty much only good for opening the hatch and maybe wedding band as that gives permanent aura reading on the obsession, where the skeleton key needs to be different from the dull key by also being good at aura reading.
But then comes the green key. 10 seconds of aura reading, only 1/3rd as good as the skeleton key.
The only key rework that was truly needed, was buffing green key from 10 seconds to 45 seconds(it cant open the hatch, so it's only use will be aura reading) and nerf the skeleton key from 30 seconds to 15 seconds. Because believe it or not, keys arent as effective as people claim it is. People love comparing keys to mori's and demanded a key nerf together with the mori's. But a key didnt have the potential for all survivors to escape with 4 gens remaining, a mori did have the potential to kill 1 survivor after 1 single hook. If keys had the same impact as mori's, sure, they needed to be nerfed together. But keys are not even the strongest survivor item. Heck, they are barely stronger than flashlights. Toolboxes are stronger and medkits are by far the most powerful. Keys are annoying, but the only reason keys can effectively do what they do is because of toolboxes and medkits.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568257#Comment_2568257
"So ofcourse the devs will look at the largest set of players, and balance towards their enjoyment. Because this game is a party game, first and foremost."
So why do you care about balance of killers and whether they win or lose if it is party game? I mean if survivor say its party game, than they shouldn't care if they win or lose.
80% of the players isnt survivor only players. It's survivors AND killers. They are ignoring both the highest and lowest tiers of players, whether they are survivors or killers.
Besides, regardless if it is a party game or not, if 1 character consistently wins 65% of their matches just by playing that character, than that character needs to be adjusted. Survivors still dont even get close to an average winrate of 50%, even the best survivor perks have less than 50% escape rate. That is why you dont see survivor nerfs as often right now. Back in the day, there were a lot of perks that had a 70% escape rate when used, lots of maps that had 65% rates of escape. These have all been nerfed already.
The thing is, the way the game is designed, you personally do not feel it a victory if you see 2 survivors escaping. I had a game where I played quite nice and laid back, had 1 kill and everyone dead on hook. If it wasnt for desync screwing me over a few times(server predicting I was closer to a locker than I actually was, stunning me when I shouldnt be stunned, twice), I would have been completely fine with that result. It's just that you know you've been screwed in one way or another that makes it feel like a loss, even though by any competitive means, it's a win.
Feeling like you lost, when you realistically didnt, doesnt mean the game is imbalanced, it just means that it feels like it is.
Seriously, go ahead and start tracking your games, how often you win, how often you lose, how many hooks you've gained etc. Start tracking how often you actually win and actually lose. You'd be surprised to see that you win far more often than you lose. Yet the moments you lose feel much much worse. But did you truly deserve to feel much, much worse because of 3 games you lost, when you won 7 in a row?
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568257#Comment_2568257
And that justifies severely nerfing the things that made him more appealing to play as than Huntress? Answer is no.
I'm not saying that Deathslinger didn't need changes... but the thing is the counterplay to DS's chase should have come from the reeling mechanic. If you go that way, then the chase becomes more interactive for both people because the terrain suddenly matters a lot more than it does currently. Instead... from what I've heard, they've made Slinger feel significantly worse to play, significantly weaker to Survivors holding W, and barely gives the Survivor any additional options once Slinger does finally get into range.
Seriously, the nerf they went with seems like the worst possible option and the changes seem like an overall nerf which shouldn't be what an average Killer should be getting.
"And that justifies severely nerfing the things that made him more appealing to play as than Huntress? Answer is no."
Yes, yes it does. Coinflip mechanics are never fun to face, especially not those ones that can be used every 0.15 seconds. Because the killer could fake it 5 times to see your reactions everytime so you become predictable on the 6th time, where as a survivor, you literally do not have time to react. The average human reaction speed is 0.25 seconds, the fastest possible human reaction is exactly 0.15 seconds, meaning that if you press dead hard the moment you notice the aim, you could dodge a quick shot.
Deathslinger was literally humanly impossible to counter.
As for the reeling mechanic, that is by far one of the worst attributes he has, giving that counterplay means survivors are more free to strave to left and right, meaning you cannot reel someone into a window anymore, since the chain is under constant stress. Or if you'd give counterplay to letting go of the chain where the survivor could react instantly, survivors would never use dead hard untill the moment they are freed.
And from what I have experienced and noticed, he's fine. You cant really go off short term deductions when the core gameplay went from quickscoping to being able to shoot around corners more consistently(as you're able to start aiming before turning the corner, turning overall faster). If you literally played him the way he is played now, he's gonna suck. But that is like playing Freddy the way he was played before, where you dont have snares, pallets or teleports. He would absolutely suck if you played him like he used to be played. So I literally wouldnt listen to deathslinger mains who relied heavily on quickscoping and m&a to down survivors, because that is exactly the kind of deathslinger that has been nerfed. I would listen to deathslinger mains who have more variety in their playstyle. And for those players, deathslinger has been overall better. Not that he is made stronger, he's objectively weaker, but his weaker intended playstyles have recieved some neccesary love.
I do have to clarify that I am for making Deathslinger a 115% killer, comparing him to Pyramid Head, who has similar ranges and can actually shoot through walls. I dont see a reason for Deathslinger having a 32 meter radius and being a 110% killer. Either give him a lullaby that is permanent from 24 meters(doing effectively the same as 32 meter terror radius: making M&A less powerful on Slinger), or make him 115% with 32 meter TR.
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@Regulus47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568076#Comment_2568076
Idk dude he still has insta down, I've seen good myerses slug everyone at 5 gens. Clown can't do that 😂
I mean, if a Myers can slug all 4 survivors at 5 gens, survivors have been bad. Against a good clown, you would need to DC to prevent him from popping a gen in a 3-gen scenario, because he can permanently keep a 3 gen since he can down people fast. Myers can snowball, but his snowball potential is very steep and heavy survivor dependend.
I mean, really, play clown for 100 games and myers for 100 games, both without addons, and you'll see the difference in strength.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565403#Comment_2565403
That's why there are other keys that can allow you to open the hatch.
But you argued against the existance of hatch in general. And there are no keys inside the game vanilla wise. You HAVE to bring a key, or bring plunderers and hope for a key.