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@Maperson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665159#Comment_2665159
Lets look it like this, survivor started looping the killer, killer wins successfully mindgames the survivor, which would result in a down, survivor presses one button and extends the chase, in that moment killer couldn't do absolutely anything more, he finded you, he chased you he won the mindgame and he is getting punished because of one button press, if killer tried to bait, survivor would use DH to distance and dropped the pallet, if killer waited he would get stunned by the pallet, which creates lose-lose situation for the killer, and shows how unfair it is, because killer couldn't do anything there but to watch. And wasn't Slinger nerfed because it lacked interaction? Survivors couldn't do anything but to hope he misses the shot, it's similar with the killer, he can hope you don't have DH because he cannot do anything to counter it.
I don't like to compare NOED to DH and I'll list you the reasons why. Firstly survivors have many things to find 5 totems, perks or map if you don't want to take a slot for it, plus survivors can destroy it even before it activates. Secondly killers play whole match with 3 perks against 16 which is already huge disadvantage. If killer gets more than one kill it's teams fault for not leaving, even then you can find and destroy totem. As much as you don't like it totems are second objective, and with teams 16 perk slots you can atleast take one for totems.
Maps are a problem, but it doesn't change the fact that the DH is aswell. You are not meant to loop the killer whole game because it's not 1v1 it's 1v4, the whole point is to take as much time from killer as you can, and even those 5 seconds are great, because killer heavily relise on time.
You are assuming a few things here:
- a survivor being hit means the survivor is outplayed, this simply isnt true since survivors cannot loop killers forever. Holding W causes a chase to take 50-70 seconds, where a killer is guaranteed to have 2 hits, how is that an outplay?
- How often is a killer mistake actually punished in a chase? A killer mistake is only punished if survivors are working on multiple gens. If 3 survivors work on 1 gen or 2 survivors on 1 gen and 1 looking through chests, a killer mistake is barely punished. Dead Hard punishes a killer mistake in a lot of scenarios, the only time it doesnt, is when it's used to reach a window.
You dont necessarily win the mindgame as a killer. As for things you can do: brute force the pallet. The sooner a pallet is dropped and kicked, the easier it is to set up a deadzone to catch others easier later on. If a survivor used Dead Hard AND a pallet, they used 2 resources when they could have only used 1.
As for things:
- killers have perks against DH(Fearmonger, Blood Echo, sometimes even addons)
- Killers can bait a DH early and then get an easy down.
- The perk difference isnt that much of a disadvantage.
- Being like "its survivors fault for not leaving and giving killer 1 kill" is like saying "its the killer fault for not brute forcing a pallet or getting an early DS". Not exactly a good argument. If a perk guarantuees a kill, it's similar to perks that avoid a hit.
And yeah, maps are DH's biggest issue. Literally anything DH can do, Sprintburst can do better. The only 2 exhaustion perks that do something Sprintburst cannot, are Head-On and Balanced Landing(technically Adrenaline too, but Adrenaline is more like a healing perk that punishes you with exhaustion, rather than being an exhaustion perk).
In any normal conditions, Dead Hard is just fine. It's being capable of reaching strong windows that makes it insanely powerful. And that is a map issue. Dead Hard doesnt give you the power to loop the killer forever(hence my first post, a hit isnt an outplay, an early hit is, but if it takes any longer than 40 seconds to not at least remove 2 pallets from the game or get a hit, it's not an outplay by any means).
Like I said, go out of your way of finding locations where Dead Hard does and doesnt do much. 99% of the cases, its close to a loop. And on at least half the maps, loops are very easily accessible.
There is a reason why tournaments limit not just Dead Hard, but also Sprintburst and Balanced Landing to just 1-2 perkslots. If it was just DH, only DH would be limited.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665212#Comment_2665212
None of that is the point. A random player may know or not know how to get into that spot, depending on if they're active in the game's social media. It doesn't matter if the killer knows and the survivor doesn't because the killer needs to be chasing the survivors if they want to win the game, so going into the spot achieves nothing. If both players know how to reach the spot, nothing happens beyond some minor time-wasting trying to get the right path up. But a survivor that goes into a spot a killer doesn't know how to reach is invincible. They cannot progress the game while in that spot, but they are a distraction and they can go into the spot while being chased for an automatic 'haha screw you' button. The killer has to either waste loads of time experimenting (giving the others free gens) or give up whenever the survivor goes there. This is why survivors go into these spots. It is deliberate use of an exploit in the hopes that the other player doesn't know how to deal with it. The purpose typically isn't hostage-taking, it's to win the game through unfair means.
Treating it like it's an intended part of strategy that has fair counterplay is BS. A player usually won't know about this until they encounter the glitch themselves. That's the point. Players can't be expected to know how to handle this. I don't understand why BHVR is chill with players abusing exploits to win as long as it doesn't result in 3-hour long games. Why is 'the game can still end' the bottom line of what's acceptable gameplay? The game could still end when Charlotte could bodyblock survivors in the basement while Victor hunted the ones that weren't, because she'd still come back to clean them up eventually. That didn't make that okay. BHVR should take a stance against it because it's against intended gameplay design and clearly in bad faith. Their current 'eh, whatever, we'll get rid of it eventually' mentality encourages people to find and abuse exploits because the only possible punishment for doing it is having the exploit removed after a month or two of trolling players with it.
Even killswitching the map is better than letting this keep happening.
A survivor going to that spot is a survivor wasting time going up there, not doing anything to progress the game themselves, being effectively a positive factor to the killer. And no, they cant go to that spot mid-chase, it's not a consistent thing. To get up there first try you wouldnt just need to have some very accurate inputs, but also enough distance so you can get up there without getting downed.
Seriously, if a survivor can go to that spot mid-chase, the killer doesnt even need to spend 1 second doing the same thing they saw the survivor do for 5 seconds. Killer hitboxes are larger and they are faster, so its much, MUCH easier for them to reach spots like that. Since it takes killers some time, that means it takes survivors more time on average to get there. The only time you can safely be on that spot is if you werent in chase before. At which point, you just ignore them and go for other people. Giving survivors free gens just to go after a survivor that doesnt do ######### is a mistake on the killer's end.
Thats like downing a survivor on the rooftop of Haddonfield, going for them, knowing they would drop down as soon as you vault the window and then blaming the mechanics that other survivors were capable of doing gens in that meantime. Keep that survivor slugged, go for other survivors instead. Dont blame your own mistakes on gamemechanics when there were plenty of other options. You decided to pick that survivor up, you decided to fall for the bait, while you could have ignored the bait and benefit yourself massively.
I never said it was intended strategy, I simply said that there is a counterplay you can make. And deciding against that counterplay that is heavily in your benefit to go after a useless survivor is simply wasting time and a bad decision. You can waste time going after survivors who dont do ######### later, you have other survivors to chase.
Bubba can still facecamp survivors to death without requiring any skill after his first hook. That has been part of his kit since his introduction 5 years ago, but the game can still end. Slugging survivors and slug camping them with iri head+infantry belt was also in the game for 5 years before it got altered because the game could still end. So kinda a moot point. There were still some plays you could make as a survivor to escape, they were practically impossible, but it still existed, where Twins was capable of downing survivors on the other side of the map while preventing any survivors to be unhooked. Which is not even comparable to the situation. Twins was able to exert pressure while making it impossible to unhook, survivors on that spot cannot exert any pressure.
You're literally making a small annoyance a massive issue, when things like uncleansable hexes existed for years before a killswitch was even implemented(it still happens, maps are still not killswitched, but when it happens to a boon, insta killswitch). This is barely an issue when it comes to gameplay. There are plenty of things you can still do that doesnt involve survivors on top of the cart and leads to your victory. The absolute worst case scenario is 2 survivors being on there and 2 survivors being dead and you trying to figure out what to do, and guess what? You should be able to down them and just slug camp them in that scenario, let them recieve a punishment for using exploits and bleed them to death.
It is not a gamebreaking exploit, it's an annoyance at best. You cant ban people for being annoying.
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665172#Comment_2665172
also, they are definitely not the biggest.
In terms of employment, no, in terms of earnings, I think they are.
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@Myla said:
Doubt people do Tbags to catch killer's attention purely as a distraction. Go join any random SWF lobbies comms and they're likely to be entitled survivor mains. A circle jerk on insulting killers.
Sure maybe there's a good survivor out there but it's very rare. Like one in a hundred.
I mean, how often do those tbags happen in a safe location? As in truly safe. You can easily say that tbagging or clicking anywhere during the match is meant as a distraction. You could literally say that nodding or mass slugging would be toxic too in that regard.
I have honestly see more killers claim survivors to be entitled, when all they wanted to do was rescue their teammate. Bodyblocking the killer so their teammate gets to live isnt toxic, even if it's rude from the killer perspective, since they might need someone dead at that point, it's not like survivor want you to get the kill. It's sweaty at best, but sweaty isnt toxic.
I'd consider someone to be toxic when the whole team clearly outmatches the killer, or when the killer clearly outmatches the survivors and still plays sweaty.
It's similar to tunneling, sometimes you just need to tunnel to get back some pressure.
The only thing I could consider toxic in this game, is slugging for no other reason than just to slug(in example, when hooking a survivor is equally beneficial to the situation, but you just slug because you play blight with alchemist ring and infectious for example).
That is part the fault of the devs to design slugging without any usable mechanics. I'd honestly would even love it if slugged survivors could still do gens and open gates, but it would take them forever just to reach the next gen or the gate(they move at 0.7 meters per second, if they can do all gens while being slugged, that would be the fault of the killer). It would really punish slugging in a 2v1 scenario, and it really incentivises killers to hook whenever it's favourable, while it barely gives survivors any pressure at all and still keeps a ton of pressure to keep survivors slugged.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664658#Comment_2664658
Wow, that's an absolutely terrible take. How is your average killer player supposed to know how to get up there? I first encountered this from one of my teammates and the poor Nemesis wasted 3 gens trying to get Bill off of the wagon - and that was a ranged killer who could technically get the shot at a very precise angle. Awful decision on BHVR's part. They need to patch this, not sweep it under the rug with a 'well, it's technically possible for the killer to deal with this.'
That has been the thing with every single exploitabele spot in the game. Any spot that is reachable by survivors, is reachable by killers.
As for how is your average killer player supposed to know? Same for the average survivor. You learn about it in 1 game, try to figure out how to do it yourself untill you know or untill their teammates have finished the last gen.
If they do keep you hostage, stay there without doing any gens, start recording and send it over to the devs, as hostage keeping IS bannable. Survivors going on there are survivors who arent working on gens, if they remain there, they are literally the least of your worries and the game can still end through EGC. It's not untill it's an active effort by an entire team to keep you hostage that it's bannable.
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I honestly would love NOED to be changed from an instadown perk, to a mainly movement speed perk. I do think the instadowns are required for NOED, but I'd say that for every 2 hooks you'd recieve 1 token of double damage instead(not exposed status, just literal double damage, being capable of eating through endurance since it's 2 hits).
So effectively, you wouldnt lose a double damage stack if survivors are already injured since you only need to deal 1 damage to down them. Then you could boost the speed up to about 7%(note, the percentage isnt additive, 7% on a 115% killer isnt 122%, it's 123.05% Just like the 4% isnt 119%, but 119.6%).
Ofcourse, this would mean that it no longer needs to be a hex totem. Since it's not a Hag perk, the hexiness of the perk isnt necessarily required for the design.
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@GannTM said:
I would’ve loved to have this that one night when I got RPD like 4 times in 5 matches.
I came up with it yesterday, me and a friend were casually playing and we had Pale Rose 3 times in a row(no offerings), then we were delighted to see a different map, namely Midwich, only to have that map 5 times in a row(no offerings). We were like "how could this be prevented if it's RNG" since we already came up with plenty of idea's to change the situation for offerings(mainly, making map offerings grey for killers and pink for survivors, would also reduce the amount of keys and BNP's distributed to survivors)
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Well, I've been playing this game long enough as both killer and survivor that I stopped caring about meta perks at all in January 2020. At best I'd run an exhaustion perk, and most often this would be Sprintburst(especially since Dead Hard sucked back then, either it didnt work at all, worked 50/50 and very rarely worked every time). I'd only really use meta perks if I had a left-over perkslot or if it was necessary for a specific build I had in mind(or archives needed specific perks to get done as quickly as possible, like DH and BT for safe unhooking, DS for stuns etc).
I always go into a game with the expectation that 1 survivor is an m1 andy, 1 survivor is an urban evader and 1 survivor is a self-carer and the game falls upon me to be in chase as long as possible. It's been relatively rare to have multiple of each being in the same game, and those games I wish I ran Self-Care or Kindred, but more often than not, I could rely somewhat on the team to be consistently mediocre.
I still hold these expectations to this day, and it's been slightly better and slightly more consistent reliable players, but the amount of times I've seen people stare at me being on the hook while the killer is long gone, then come for the unhook as soon as the killer decides to check on me, not going through with the unhook(note, them being hooked 0 times and someone else with second stage being on the other side of the map) is quite ridiculous.
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@StarLost said:
The issue isn't gen speeds.
It's the maps themselves. Too many strong, safe tile combos and freebie gens. Combine this with the insanity of CoH and the 'fixed' (see: buffed) Dead Hard and...yeah.
There is a reason killers camp.
'Tunneling' isn't a thing. Removing one survivor from the game ASAP is how killers are supposed to play. If you don't have someone dead by 2 gens remaining, you've lost unless the survivors massively misplay or you have brought NOED.
It's literally a fix, not a buff. This is one of the only times that a mechanic has literally been fixed, yet people claim it's a buff. Yet when window blockers were added, people call it a fix, even though it was objectively a nerf.
And yeah, Tunneling is obviously a thing. If a survivor gained 8k BP because they have been chased from the start of the match untill the end of the match, they were tunneled. Your objective as a killer is to kill all survivors. Focusing on only 1/4th of your objective, is literally tunneling.
And while I agree that in the normal flow of the game, having 1 survivor dead at 2 gens is often a really good step to kill at least 3 survivors, that is ignoring the fact that when all gens are finished, the game isnt over. There still is quite a large portion of the game remaining. I cant tell you how often I have won the game with 4 survivors left and 0 gens remaining without even bringing NOED. I cant tell you how many games I have lost even though 1 survivor died with 3 gens remaining.
But there is 1 big problem: you're assuming you deserve to win. You dont. If you are playing against players of your own caliber, you should lose 50% of the game. And that isnt even applying the fact that with MMR, a 1k could be considered a win. If you're facing 3 potatoes with 700 ELO, and 1 survivor with 1900 ELO while you are 1000 ELO, then you kill the survivor with 1900 ELO, you gain MMR even though you only killed 1 survivor.
You have a personal definition of a win, while that definition of a win is in itself entitlement. If I play Treasurekeeper Bubba, I win as long as the item remains in the game. I'd lose if the item leaves the game. Survivors are going to be bored as heck and wouldnt really consider it a win, even though by your own definition, you won.
It doesnt even really matter if the majority of the community agrees with you, it's not something that is set in stone. If you consider an increase in MMR to be a win, depending on the players in the match, that win condition could be a 1k or a 3k. If you consider the pipping system to be a win, a 0k could be a win. If you consider having the most BP in the match to be a win, a 4k could be a loss.
Since MMR is the only way to face better or worse opponents, meaning it's the closest thing we have to a win/lose condition, dying as a survivor means a loss, even if 3 teammates escape, and gaining MMR counts as a win, even if 3 survivors escape. Meaning any specific win condition you have in mind, is an entitlement.
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@GrayEyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665132#Comment_2665132
You realize that bhvr is the biggest game developer in Canada right?
And that it took them five years to come up with a change to trapper a character that's been in the game since it launched and that change was changing the number of traps he carries at the start from 1 to 2
That's right it took them 5 years to come up with that
I understand optimism for your favorite game but like others said you really haven't been here long have you
"like others said", you literally are the first. And no, I have been here since the beginning.
Let alone that BHVR is an outsourcing company. The crew working on DBD actively is relatively small compared to the whole team.
As for increasing Trapper's traps from 1 to 2, you'd be surprised that that kind of change wasnt really needed for the majority of the time. It's the recent reworks of maps where Traps are more easily spotted that it truly became a necessity. Before, you could simply hide a trap in grass and you'd be quite certain it would catch a survivor off-guard and never needed to go back and reset it.
Just because a change became necessary recently doesnt mean it should have been implemented years ago.
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@BubbaDredge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665132#Comment_2665132
It's a multi-million dollar company with 800 employees. It took them a year to raise Blight's eye-level to normal.
You're assuming all 800 of them work on DBD, which obviously isnt the case. They created 3 seperate games in the meantime and helped/mainly created 5 games for other companies.
BHVR is mainly an outsourcing company. While DBD is their flagship game, the vast majority of the company has been set-up and created around being outsourced.
I do agree they could easily hire more people. Other companies with similar income tend to have about 2000 employees, where BHVR has only grown from 600-800 employees in the past 6 years.
Thing is, people here are blaming the developers, when it's the board of admission who is in charge of hiring more people. Dont blame the devs, blame the board of admission.
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@Maperson said:
Very, very badly designed perk. Rewards bad play, steals killer good play, press one button to get out of trouble. Uncounterable in most situations, it allows you to do things you wouldn't do. Creates lose-lose situation for killers. Needs a nerf.
How does it steal a good play from killers when hits are effectively inevitable. Dead Hard also rewards good plays when the killer plays badly.
It's comparable to NOED in that scenario, where NOED rewards bad plays and punishes survivors who played well. There are instances where it rewards good plays(like a killer setting up an endgame situation with NOED and Bloodwarden for example), but there are many, many more instances where it rewards bad plays.
Dead Hard doesnt need any changes, maps do. Seriously, the most balanced maps has about an equal amount of places where Dead Hard does a ton and doesnt do anything. The most imbalanced maps have a ton of places where Dead Hard does a ton and only a handful of places where Dead Hard doesnt do anything.
Take Cowshed for example: The only place Dead Hard doesnt have any real value, is if you're inside the cornfield and the killer has full vision on you. If you Dead Hard, you buy at best 5 seconds of time. Anywhere else on the map? Dead Hard allows you to reach a window or a pallet.
Maps are the issue, not Dead Hard.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664857#Comment_2664857
Now it has server-side validation, you can't say DH is not consistent anymore. It is now extremely consistent, and you can be absolutely greedy with it as the server has your back.
It's not anywhere near Ruin in terms of consistency. With Ruin you have games where it stays up the whole game, then you have games were it literally is destroyed in 20 seconds, and then you have games in between. Meanwhile, Dead Hard gives consistent value in every game, basically every single chase. Usually at least twice.
Even with server-side validation, it's not consistent. You literally dont know if you Dead Harded in time or if you didnt. The only real difference is that you'd never be exhausted on the ground as it would roll-back exhaustion if the hit validation was in favour of the killer.
The same applies to pallets, I can't tell you how often a pallet didnt drop because it rolled back the start of the animation because I got hit(even though I needed the stun for an archive and didnt care if I would get downed).
It's slightly more reliable in the sense that you dont get screwed over just because the killer didnt see your dead hard animation yet even though you've already finished and gained distance. The only thing I wish it did was also slightly change the movement speed of the killer, since you're losing 0.3 meters more than if you swung and missed due to the roll back slowing you down as if you hit them.
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@Pizzasauce said:
So obvious but DH.
The post says using, not facing against it.
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@FeelsBadMan said:
Same boring as going against 4 stacks of SWF all day who bodyblock hooks and take hits for eachother so the killer doesn't get a single hook.
Thing is, I know you're pretty wrong in this one, because only a relatively small portion of players are in a 4-man premade. The majority of players are 1 and 2 stacks, and even then, quite a lot of them play together simply because they could rely on each other rather than being matched up with random teammates who range from crayon eating toddlers to fallen demon overlords that come to this game to torment anyone they encounter.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665060#Comment_2665060
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GSCBNJOGCA5H/image.png
are they? hard to believe that sometimes
Have you seen the list of changelogs every single patch? There is only so much time one person can spend on fixing bugs and there is only so many people working at BHVR who can fix bugs. Demanding all bugs to be fixed is practically impossible.
There are only a handful of glitches and gamebreaking bugs in the game right now, and those were introduced with the latest patch.
It's like people not being aware that Stab Wounds Study was changed from 3-5 seconds. It wasnt mentioned in the patch notes, but it was in the changelogs.
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@str4wberryp said:
When was the last time you played against a Deathslinger? That's right, pre-nerf! Now that Behaviour made him clunky, weaker and unfun to play, I suggest buffing him by giving him a real gun instead of the current cringe launcher. Huntress can injure survivors and down them from afar, so why does Deathslinger have to deal with this annoying chain that breaks after 2 seconds and survivors jumping in front of him to tank hits? Just give him a gun! He could start with something smaller, like a .22 idk, some addons could give him better guns (they're all useless anyways, "reduces terror radius while aiming lmaooo")
The reducing TR while aiming was actually really ######### good in combination with the increased movement speed while aiming. It's too bad the latter had been nerfed out of the PTB. I'd actually would have been okay with a Slinger moving at 108.5% while aiming if it required double movementspeed addons.
Sure, he'd be able to aim and gain quite some distance, but since his flicking speed is very limited, he cant really turn around sharp corners(he still gains some distance when using both, but its pretty insignificant now).
The rest of his kit is fairly fine, the only thing that is missing now is making him 115% OR giving him a lullaby up to 24 meters(so it's not free hits whenever you use M&A) and give him back his old radius.
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@Wampa1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2656146#Comment_2656146
Pulitzer Prize for that one mate,well argued but totally disagree with the buffs killers got particularly plague which I play a lot they were minimal at best,if your relying on add one as a killer then you will only play that killer while you have that particular add on other than the killer is back at baseline which admittedly they have slightly improved ,the new perks for spirit are useless.Again everything is subjective and down to opinion,time will tell how this game will fair,i hope the answer to that is a positive one but it’s in the hands of the developers and the court of public opinion.
Thing is, agreeing on what is balanced is tough. There are a lot of broken mechanics that seem fine because maps are not fine. There are a lot of seemingly useless mechanics that are actually really good, but dont get to shine because of maps.
As for Plague, yeah, they were minor changes, but minor changes in this game easily have a butterfly effect. If you charge puke 1% faster, that means you can down survivors faster, which allows for snowball effects to apply quicker. If you infect survivors faster, that means they need to cleanse more often or be injured for longer without you even needing to do much. It's a numerical small change, but the effects are quite massive. No longer cancelling your puke because you didnt reach the treshold easily means you down survivors faster. Increased basekit infection time and increased infection rates means survivors get injured faster without you having to patrol gens as much.
Also, relying on addons doesnt mean you rely on specific addons to work(let alone that as killer, you can pretty much refresh addons enough to have a practical infinite amount of them, especially if you seek them out specifically in the bloodweb).
As for the new perks for Spirit? I only feel that applies to Stridor, and Stridor Spirit deserved to be flushed down the drain. It basically made Iron Will an utterly useless perk to run and would require Iron Will to be buffed or Stridor to be nerfed. Since you cant really buff Iron Will, Stridor needed to be nerfed. You know, the exact same argument that people have now that Stridor is useless because of Iron Will and demand Iron Will to be nerfed? I'd honestly be fine with Iron Will reducing Grunts of Pain with 90-95% instead of 100%, but the maths behind it could break the sound there and would need perk priority to be applied. So I personally think Stridor simply needs a minor change where it adds breathing on injured survivors. As for any other perk on Spirit, eh, I dont see too much of an issue with it.
Personally, I rather see maps being balanced a bit better. There is a lot of RNG that can literally make games unwinnable for either side(I have had The Pale Rose yesterday with only 4 pallets against a Bubba(shack pallet, 2 on the boat, 1 in the docks). I am assuming, in fact, I hope that I am somewhat correct that was the case since the killer was facing 3 survivors with relatively high MMR while he only had 2 hours in the game as killer and was probably told by friends to buy Bubba for BBQ. If the killer werent extremely new to the game, there was no way survivors would have any shot at winning that game. If the map was like that because the killer was lower rank and new to the game, I'd actually be shocked, since I cant find anywhere in the patchnotes that killer based seeds were added to the game.
Anyway, I guess my TL;DR would be that maps are the only thing right now that truly need changes. Most killers, except for 3, are mechanically balanced, some even overpowered, if it wasnt for certain maps holding them back.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
You know what the best part about it is?
Now you only need about 45 ish bloodwebs each chapter to keep your survivor up to date.
Unlike killers who if they play everyone need 5 times the number of killers + however long it takes to get everything on the new killer
That is assuming people only play 1 survivor tho. If I want to play Feng Min, I'd need to keep her up to date aswell.
Let alone that killers on average earn triple the BP of survivors, which means that not only are killers reaching level 50 3x faster, they unlock all perks 3x faster, get teachables 3x faster and can effectively infinitely refresh their BP. You can play 1 game as killer and refresh your bloodweb almost twice. You'd need to play 3 games as a survivor to refresh 1 bloodweb.
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@glitchboi said:
In my opinion, it should have an activation method other than simply being injured. Rookie Spirit, a worse perk than IW, requires 3 skill checks to activate, while IW you practically get instantly.
Thing is, Rookie Spirit has a power that is arguably stronger than IW(IW only really works when a survivor isnt in a chase). Getting injured means you can be downed and hooked. So its fine pretty much. When healthy, you have extra noise and can be found quicker, when injured you dont.
IW really isnt that strong of a perk. It allows things that you cant really do without Iron Will, but then you described literally every perk in existance.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/296520/why-mmr
The problem with the 'ranks' system was that:
- It was way too easy to derank and smurf. It was so bad that even some Fog Whisperers admitted to deranking for easier games on stream. Emblems would have the same problem.
- Killers had no matchmaking protections, so high MMR people would constantly get matched against people with much less experience/skill, resulting in those amazing '100 win streak with a meme build' videos.
MMR has it's problems, particularly in terms of people with high MMR now constantly having harder games than they are used to, plus the occasional 'wut' matchup - but it's been significantly better now, at least for me as a comfortably intermediate killer player that prefers to try weird perk and addon combinations.
At least 3/5 games are...pretty decent. Maybe 1/5 is a touch too easy and 1/5 is a brutal slog, but before MMR, around 2/3 of my games were me getting absolutely stomped by people with thousands more hours of experience, generally smurfing.
I do agree that MMR for survivors should be more nuanced than died/escaped, but there's plenty of room for refinement.
Except that people with high mmr literally can never go for any altruistic play if they want to keep facing decent killers while having decent teammates.
The MMR is good for new players or for super competitive players, but for 80% of the players, its worse.
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@Wampa1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648513#Comment_2648513
I like your argument but how do you quantify the position that the game is the most balanced it has been,i play killer/survivor equally,have played for over 5 years and the game is not balanced,boon totems and nerfs to previously good killers is killing this game.I do and will continue to play both but particularly killers are leaving or switching to survivor,because playing killer is so frustrating.
I never said the game is balanced, just that it has been the most balanced it has ever been.
Boon totems are actually fine, even in the case of Circle of Healing, a survivor would need to go to a specific area on the map to heal up which isnt too different from finding a teammate. Since it costs time to find a totem, bless it and re-bless a totem if snuffed, I dont really see too much of an issue with the perks.
As for the nerfs to killers, I mean, Spirit has recieved new addons that would be too powerful on her old kit, and she kinda needed a nerf since skill barely was part of her kit(there was skill, but people tended to rely on fake phasing etc). Slinger wasnt really a good killer, he was just too oppressive in chase while being too weak in defending gens, he suffered from the same aspect Spirit did: coinflips. Spirit is fun to face against now, and she is barely any weaker. Any issues Spirit players have now is simply how little skill she required to "fool" a survivor. The rest of the killers have actually seen a ton of buffs: Wraith is super speedy, Clown has access to speed bottles, Plague recieved a massive buff, Trickster was altered quite well, Myers recieved quite the impactful buffs on some of his addons, Trapper is much better off now than he was before, even Billy recieved some love(not enough, but it's a start). Slinger is the only killer who recieved a nett-nerf this year, and I dont think he is quite finished yet either.
Then we have a ton of perks recieving buffs and a few recieving Nerfs, DS got nerfed, Hatch has been heavily adjusted(not finished yet, I know, but for now its okay-ish, could be better tho). Mindbreaker recieving not 1, but 2 buffs, Third Seal finally being a usable perk for a ton of killers, the list goes on.
The only 3 things that IMO need changing, are medkits, bringing items to the match and the build-up to the EGC.
I am a heavy supporter of having perks like Fire-Up being basekit since it speeds up killer actions overall as the game progresses, and I am also of the opinion that the Entity should simply consume some tiles after the final gen is done, similar to how generators are blocked, so that if certain pallets werent used up early? too bad, permalocked, some strong windows leading into each other? welp, these windows are now blocked. Also speeding up the movement speed of a killer for 1% for every gen that is finished wouldnt hurt either, leading to basically having NOED movementspeed during the endgame.
Medkits are by far the most broken item in the game, allowing you to heal anywhere on the map at regular speeds or more, making them already extremely powerful, but adding one to the match without needing to spend time to get it leads to the possibility of 3 gens being gone before you even find a single survivor.
So the change to bringing items into the match would be to add in a set of chests to the match that can only be opened by the survivor who brought the item. Causing them to need to spend some time gathering the item, rather than starting out with it.
But that's not the issue the MMR brings, I used to sink in easily 30-40 hours a week in this game, playing both killer and survivor, now that number is down to about 16-24 hours a week, only getting the archives for killer, playing survivor with friends and then simply watching youtube or playing other games. As survivor, I get screwed by showing myself early to the killer(which I normally do to grab attention and chase, but since dying is a bad thing now, I cant show myself untill someone else has been hooked if I want to face decent killers), as a killer, I get screwed by playing the game too well. In one case, I'd have to play super sweaty as solo survivor to get matches with decent teammates and decent killers. In the other case, I'd have to stand afk with Lightborn and Insidious to not play against the sweatiest survivors, who probably play that sweaty due to the fact that it's the only way to not face bad killers.
Survivors were never really rewarded for escaping, escaping wasnt the main goal for any individual survivor, having as many survivors escape as possible was the goal. So getting punished for not escaping, when 3 of your teammates do escape is the worst decision you can ever make. As for killers, well, personally I do believe getting more hooks is harder to do than getting kills, especially since perks like NOED exist. But only up to the first kill. So effectively, what you want for killers is that their skill is based around getting as many hooks as possible before their first kill and any hooks after dont really matter, while for survivors you want it to be based on their ability to chase and loop a killer.
You'd effectively no longer base the win condition on killers to get as many kills as possible, but on their ability to quickly end chases and hook survivors up untill the first kill. Which is still semi-kill based, but at least this system would hold up for all killers, not just S-tier killers, and all survivors, not just those who manage to escape. It would most likely still be quite a mess, but at least games would be much less frustrating for both sides.
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@RenRen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648389#Comment_2648389
When survivors are injured their breathing doesn't even exist. So it doesn't amplify anything.
Also Iron Will applying when downed has shown to be a bad idea as there is a bug that has been in this game for years now where someone who is downed can be silent and the killer can't find them and if it's a situation of slugging for 4k and the killer kills the 3rd survivor the 4th literally can't be found because for some reason people move.
Yes, but it's only when they are injured, Stridor amplifies downed and healthy survivors too.
"Also Iron Will applying when downed has shown to be a bad idea"
I agree, which is why Stridor cannot be buffed to counter Iron Will, because doing so would require Iron Will to also be buffed. If Stridor counters Iron Will to injured survivors, but also amplifies downed and healthy survivors, you're effectively removing the usability of an entire perk. That's not good game design. So the secondary effect would need to be to have Iron Will applied to the dying state also, so that Stridor is also countered a bit harder by Iron Will. Forcing both sides to effectively run Iron Will and Stridor, meaning you might aswell make both basekit.
"because for some reason people move."
Then dont slug for a 4k.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648376#Comment_2648376
No lol. Literally all instadown perks have a prerequisite or require effort to get value out of like Devour Hope. What does Iron Will lack?
A perk slot that can be used for better effects, let alone that it HAS a prerequisite of being Injured and it doesnt work while being downed.
How is that more of a prerequisite of 1 hex totem being cleansed(Haunted Grounds), or 1 dull totem remaining(NOED) in the trial, or picking up a survivor, or hooking 3 survivors? The only prerequisite that Devour Hope has, is not being cleansed.
Also, funny cherrypick to grab the only instadown perk that actually is relatively difficult to get working, Devour Hope is more comparable to Off The Record in terms of "removing" gamemechanics than Iron Will. I am talking about any instadown that exists in the game that doesnt require you going out of your way to benefit from it. Which is effectively every single instadown except for Devour Hope.
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Chlorine gas isnt necessarily as effective as you'd think. Lungs are incredible at filtering gasses and you getting out of the chlorine gas relatively quickly means your lungs can pump out the chlorine gas and replace it with oxygen(that is assuming the entity actually provides survivors with oxygen in the first place).
As for A, the entity provides killers with what they desire to get their kills.
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I disagree with this, because it's not a statement on the balance of the game, it's a statement on the MMR system.
The game is in the most balanced state it has been, EVER. The MMR just put killers who get a ton of kills against survivors who are extremely good at surviving, or extremely good at leeching off teammates and hiding all game. While the MMR puts a lot of survivors who are good, but dont really care about escaping against killers who are really bad at killing.
Effectively, 80% of the players play this game casually, while the MMR forces survivors to play competitively if they want to face players of their own caliber, or forces killers to throw games if they dont want to play against super sweaty survivors. If they reverted to the old changes, only a few people would be complaining about how frustrating the matches are.
DBD effectively needs to change the MMR from kills vs escapes towards kills vs chase. It would still raise the MMR of good survivors who effectively carried the game, but didnt escape, while it would lower the MMR of survivors who didnt do #########, but still escaped. While the killer system is actually half decent, it just seems to suck because the survivor side of MMR is broken.
Seriously, the only way for the current MMR to work properly, is to buff solo survivor with basekit aura readings and a ping system.
If me DC'ing as a survivor to turn a killer's 1k into a 0k is beneficial for my MMR so I wont face killers that are far under my caliber, then there is a problem in the MMR. I should be able to die against a bad killer while still gaining MMR if 3 teammates escape. I should be able to escape against a really good killer and not gain MMR if I am the only survivor escaping, or even lose MMR if my escape actively caused my teammates to die.
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@LaFlamme said:
Can't believe people are even saying yes. Deathslinger was easy to play against before the nerf. Completely unnecessary.
As a full squad? Yes, Slinger was easy to play against. But you dont play with full squads. The majority of players play solo or duo.
Let alone that MMR bases your "win" on escape or kill, and as a solo player, you cannot really win against Deathslinger, hence a nerf is needed.
So yes, a nerf in his quickscope was needed, and due to M&A making his lethal kit even more lethal than it is, and a lack of him having a lullaby, caused them to change his TR untill they either create a Lullaby or untill they make him 115%.
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There actually is a rotation at play. It's not a map rotation, but a realm rotation. Meaning one period, you have McMillan, Midwich and Yamaoka on the rotation, and 80% of the time, you get McMillan, Midwich or Yamaoka maps.
As for retiring haddonfield, or any map, that is never gonna happen. Heck, Hawkins wasnt even retired, it was removed. Let alone that even with the player annoyances, the maps are relatively balanced. If you lose on those maps, odds are more likely that items, offerings or addons cost you the game, rather than the map.
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
Make is so after you use it you can’t interact with windows or pallets for a couple of seconds, and for a couple of seconds after you’ve used it
This way it can still be used to avoid a lunge or special attack but it can no longer be used to create distance to make it to a safe pallet or window, which is the real problem with the perk
survivors making mistakes only to rectify said mistake by DH’ing to a pallet is BS, as is getting hit validated the second someone vaults a window
adding a short cool down between pallet and window interactions would make the perk a lot more fair
Issue here:
Why not remove the exhaustion recovery too? Exhaustion perks create distance, Dead Hard no longer creating distance means it's no longer an exhaustion perk. It could still have a similar cooldown, but it shouldnt be part of the exhaustion pool if it doesnt create distance. At which point, you can combine the i-frames of Dead Hard with Sprintburst to have a god-tier survivor.
This is why you cannot nerf dead hard.
As for "rectifying a mistake" by dead harding to a pallet: The survivor just used 2 resources, a pallet and an exhaustion perk to avoid 1 single hit. That's fine.
As for windows, there actually already is a downside: Using DH too early or too late causes you to either med-vault instead of fast vault, or give the killer the oppertunity to hit you.
If you nerf dead hard like that, killers like Nurse, Wraith, Spirit and Blight also need a nerfing for similar reasons.
Dead Hard isnt a perk issue, it's a map issue.
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@Leatherface1990 said:
Press E and hold W. If that doesn't work just D/C. I see it all the time when I played.
BHVR took 5 years to nerf Decisive Strike. Not in my lifetime but interesting idea. BHVR could not come up with an idea like you just did. That's why I quit.
Except that his idea completely makes the perk worthless in any scenario. Exhaustion perks exist as a tool to create distance between the killer and the survivor. Removing the distance making aspect from any exhaustion perk is essentially destroying the exhaustion perk.
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@Myla said:
You can have fun in Competitive just by the fact that you're an SWF. You don't have to be sweaty to stomp on most killers lol.
While I did say that splitting the player base on two game modes is dumb imo.
Here is a good reason:
Competitive mode MMR: kills vs escapes
Casual mode MMR: kills vs chasetime
You absolutely need 2 modes if you want a proper MMR system. Kills vs escapes doesnt work for obvious reasons(good survivors get tanked for sacrificing themselves so 3 teammates can escape, while scared survivors who hide all game can climb the ladder), while kills vs chasetime has some other issues when it comes to competitive play, but is actually really good for seperating good from bad players in casual play.
And you're not really splitting the playerbase. You simply seperate people who solely want to play comp from people who solely want to play casual, while people who want to play both, do not have their competitive ranking affected by their time playing casually.
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@RenRen said:
I think all Iron Will needs is to allow breathing while injured that's it. Also make it so Stridor can actually counter Iron Will.
Perks fully countering perks shouldnt exist. Stridor countering Iron Will makes Iron Will quite worthless. Iron Will doesnt counter Stridor as breathing is also amplified, so Iron Will doesnt fully counter Stridor. Heck, Stridor originally wasnt even meant to counter Iron Will. Grunts of pain back then were very soft to start with compared to today.
If you want Stridor to counter Iron Will, Iron Will also needs to be applied when downed(making No Mither even more worthless)
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@GannTM said:
One perk shouldn’t take away an entire gameplay mechanic with no downsides. Yes the perk needs a nerf.
Ah, so instadown perks should be removed, noted.
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@RenRen said:
I haven't played the PTB but from what I've seen from various streamers, she does not seem close in strength to Blight or Nurse. Are they really complaining about how strong she is or is it just how fun she is to go against?
Side note: Why do I see posts about buffing Overcome and nerfing Hex: Pentimento, am I missing something?
Thing is, there were plenty of people claiming Blight didnt have S-tier potential, the counter argument was that people didnt have time to learn the killer properly enough to show why he DOES have S-tier potential.
This killer is a killer like Blight and Nurse, where they are as powerful as their users are skillful and any ability or addon that doesnt require skill is instantly too powerful(take recharge addons for Nurse, or alchemist ring for Blight, neither take skill to use, both make the killer infinitely easier to play for people who are already skilled at them, which is why those addons have issues).
In the case of Carmina, it is the crow disintegration timer being reset upon placing another crow which is a bit too powerful. Giving her effectively 30 seconds to place 3 crows before they disintegrate. If that was limited to 10 seconds(aka, you had 10 seconds to place down crows, then you'd be forced to recharge), she'd be fine.
Now she is effectively a combination of strengths shared by Hag, Twins, Pyramid Head, Doctor while having a Huntress level range.
Limiting the time she can use her power is gonna be the best way to "nerf" her while still keeping her S-tier.
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@my_name_jeff_69 said:
I see this more and more, people saying a Blight is exploiting when they have no idea what they're doing is just game mechanics?
For example, people who say the hug tech is an exploit, I see it a lot surprisingly, this is just abusing collision in the game, it's not an exploit. This is like saying a Billy who can curve and not bump into a wall is exploiting for okaying around the collision of an object.
S flicks, Z flicks, moon rushes, and all these, are no exploits.
The only real exploit a Blight can do currently, is a lag flick.
"this is just abusing collision in the game, it's not an exploit."
'Officer, I didnt kill that man, I just pulled the trigger and the bullet went straight for that man's head.'
An exploit is abusing a mechanic in a way that isnt intended. Avoiding collision by curving isnt abusing collision.
@my_name_jeff_69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2640728#Comment_2640728
Mclean knew, he was actively up to date on everything regarding blight.
Doesnt matter if they knew, it would take quite a bit of time to address hugging the wall. It's similar to fixing some issues that Trapper had. Like traps snapping onto survivors after the reset mechanic was introduced, where trapper still had to pick up his traps to place them back.
Just because the devs know, doesnt mean they can solve it in a short time, especially not when they effectively have to change the collision system. The current solution would be to disable Blight untill its fixed. Blight also is still colliding with the hatch, which has been known since his introduction on the PTB, so why havent they fixed that yet?
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2640594#Comment_2640594
I think that would be fair then! If the intent of the change is just to reveal who the killer is I would think a better idea might be to have some kind of emblem/name somewhere that doesn't go away as 3 seconds is a very short time and unobservant/new survivors might miss the small window at the start. As to your other argument I agree, but the idea of 1/16 of the survivor pool countering 1/4 of the killer pool AND providing anything on top of that is just salt in the wound of 'why does 6% of the survivor team loadout hard counter 25% of the killer loadout'.
To be fair, OoO would be a bigger counter to Lethal Pursuer, and I dont think it would be an issue even then. Lethal Pursuer isnt just about seeing survivors and then going for them. Lethal Pursuer is about you knowing where survivors are and using that information to your advantage(aka, 3 survivors with 3 toolboxes that are likely to have BNP spawning together might not be worth to stop since the gen will pop before you reach them, meaning you have some extra time to set anything up if you need to, scout out an area for dead zones and pallets and then going for the survivor).
If all Lethal Pursuer was good for(or aura reading in general), was going directly to survivors you saw, then there are a LOT of survivor perks that hard counter it.
If you personally use Lethal Pursuer just to go for survivors, then you're not getting much value out of the perk other than reducing your early search time.
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@RoboMojo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/294920/would-dark-sense-be-overpowered-if
Kinda? I dunno. This might just make weak Killers who depend on being unseen at the start (Trapper and Ghostface mainly as Myers already starts Undetectable) much MUCH weaker, while not really affecting the top tier Killers at all. I'm not against Dark sense being buffed as it's current effect is a little underwhelming. However, I'm not a huge fan of stuff that makes weaker Killers suffer while leaving strong Killers untouched.
This is assuming it's strong enough to run though. If it's only really good to use against 2-3 killers, it wont see much use in SWF and only rarely see use in solo.
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/294920/would-dark-sense-be-overpowered-if
It would make it better yes but always think of perks when it comes to swf, I know this isn't a swf topic but remember that OoO has a drawback which is the killer knowing meanwhile this change would only benefit.
I mean, OoO also has:
an aura read every 30 seconds
an aura read everytime the killer reads your aura, meaning things like Nurses Calling are hard countered by OoO, I cant think of any perk being hard countered by Dark Sense if you add aura reading to the start. It would be a strong perk against killers who benefit from survivors not knowing who the killer is, and that's pretty much Trapper and Hag only these days.
This perk would literally add 5-ish seconds of you knowing where the killer is at the start of the game, other than that, it is already quite mediocre for a SWF, it would be really good for solo survs tho.
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@OhEtsu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2638282#Comment_2638282
So you're cherry picking certain situations where DH isn't broken to prove a point? That's literally just telling me you have no argument lmao
I didnt cherry pick, I gave killer specific counters. Seriously, you're now just trying to validate your own argument.
Sprintburst is by far more powerful than Dead Hard ever wishes to be. Dead Hard is simply easier to use. There exist plenty of counter measures against Dead Hard to make it far from OP. I mean, how specific are your situations where a survivor has to be pretty much the perfect distance away where Dead Hard buys them enough distance to reach a pallet or window(the net gained distance is 1 meter at best unless the killer swung)? Half the killers I mentioned have equal, if not more oppertunities to deny DH.
So who really is cherry picking here?
Yes, Dead Hard in some very specific scenario's, especially against the second list of killers I mentioned, can be practically uncounterable, but guess what? There are plenty more scenario's where a survivor has no chance of dodging a hit, even if they had Dead Hard. At best, they postponed it for 1 second. Do that times 12, and you'd have 12 seconds gained from 4 survivors having Dead Hard if they dont get the oppertunity to use DH to use a window or pallet. The longer the game lasts, the less pallets there are.
Seriously, run bamboozle, you'd be surprised how little effect DH can have.
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@OhEtsu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2638242#Comment_2638242
Hit and run was the most viable for killers that can't afford to chase all the time, which is most of them. As for slugging, it's the other viable playstyle that'll be gutted with the new boon. You act like killers have a chance if they avoid playing into the boon. They'll lose regardless because you can't win without slugging or at least keeping multiple people injured. Boons create a lose-lose situation. Ruin is found extremely quickly and doesn't create a lose-lose situation. CoH is FAR more powerful.
Everything that causes exhaustion does nothing against anything other than SB, since any half decent survivor walks in chase and those add-ons are for 5 seconds at best. The amount of distance doesn't matter. What matters is the lack of requirements that make the perk more versatile, as well as the fact that it is used once you've already committed to the chase, which wastes more time than any other exhaustion perk. What matters is that DH extends chases more against the weakest killers who can't afford to have the chase extended than the strong killers who can.
You need slowdown to win. You can tie without it when playing a strong killer. Gens definitely do go too quickly. Pair that with spawn locations, CoH, DH, medkits, and broken maps and you have no chance without slowdown perks even when playing Nurse.
Slugging being gutted by the new boon? Excuse me? Since when does the boon spawn near downed survivors? A slugged survivor would need to CRAWL to the boon, moving at 0.7 meters per second. If that boon is 12 meters away, that means they spend 17 seconds just crawling there, only to pick themselves up 16 seconds later, meaning they were laying on the floor for 33 seconds. You'd be able to hear the boon if you are in range of the boon as a killer. Faintly, sure, but it's a sign that you cannot slug this survivor for longer than 14 seconds. And that is assuming the boon is close. What if only 1 survivor brought the boons? What if the boon was on the opposite side of the map? 12 meters is what a killer walks in less than 3 seconds. You would literally be able to walk to the boon to deny the self-pickup and keep the survivor slugged, meanwhile, the survivor is only 1/3rd of their way towards the boon. Being slugged is insanely boring and non-interactive. Exponential gives survivors essentially an objective that allows them to pick themselves up after spending a long time crawling to the position. Which is still boring, but at least it is interactive, let alone that in the vast majority of cases, the boons would be towards the outside of the map, as central locations are too easy to snuff, pretty much guaranteeing that the survivor spends at least 30 seconds just crawling there. Meaning they would be picked up faster if they didnt move at all, but in the case of a 2v1, it denies the slugging for the 4k in a 2v1 scenario.
Hit and Run is absolutely dogshit when it comes to high mmr. Hit and run works when survivors do not have comms. CoH doesnt really do much to affect that. It just makes it easier for solo survivors to work on the level of SWF.
Ruin isnt found extremely quickly, that's RNG. Ruin can last anywhere from 16 seconds up to 10 minutes. If you have to reapply a boon every 2 minutes, you'd be wasting easily 1 generator worth of time alone. Since hit and run isnt viable in high mmr anyway, you can see how this is a waste of time.
5 seconds of walking in chase is an eternity. If a survivor gets the 5 seconds back without you closing the gap for a hit, you're simply outmatched.(also, good survivors can use Sprintburst on-demand in situations Dead Hard only wishes it could be used. About to injure a survivor? Haha, now they are 20 meters ahead of you and didnt even gain damage, with Dead Hard? They gained 1-2 meters at best and had to use a window or a pallet). I am not going deeper into this, as I already used a killer specific list.
And no, I played 20 matches today with 0 slowdown. Playing Trapper, Doctor, Myers(I am a doc and myers main, so the survivors are quite competent, I do play trapper enough to face very decent survivors at the very least), even some on Legion(Blood Echo carries hard).
So no, you dont need slowdown perks to win the game, if you hook survivors in the right locations rather than the most convenient ones, if you know when to pressure the hook(example, 10 seconds for a survivor to hit second stage/die, its worth to stick around and make sure it happens), if you know to care about which gens(you are not supposed to defend all gens, try finding the 3-5 closest generators and limit your activities in there to create a deadzone), slug when necessary(when done in your patrol area, you would know where survivors would have been since it's effectively 50% of the map), use things like BT in your favor, trigger DS early if possible, if there isnt a DS, they are a free kill when you need one, find creative uses for your power that could surprise survivors. It's high risk high reward. If all else fails, bruteforce a chase untill they leave your patrol area.
Thing is, you have to play as someone who actually cares for wins and wins alone if you want to win in higher MMR. You would have to go for the most optimal strats. You might not want to camp, but you would need to camp if necessary(especially if the hook is within your patrol area). If you do leave the patrol area, make sure you hook the survivor as far away as possible that still allows you to return to your gens before one pops. It costs you less time to walk back than survivors, meaning 2 survivors are slowed down by 10-15% on their way back, meaning you only have 2 survivors in your zone. Let alone that at least 1 survivor has to cover that distance there, slowing that survivor down even more. If that survivor happens to be spotted, even more time is wasted and another survivor would need to go for the rescue, only leaving 1 survivor. That is using 0 perks. And survivors would need to use 5 perks just to try and reduce that amount of vanilla wasted time.
There are a lot of vanilla mechanics that killers have access to that are often ignored in game. If you hook a survivor on the nearest hook and go to a gen that is gonna pop anyway, you might aswell spend some extra time making sure the survivor is harder to get. If you know the gen isnt gonna pop for a bit, see what hooks are available and hook a survivor on the least reachable hook. If you know a gen is gonna pop if you're not gonna be there ASAP, then you hook them on the nearest hook to contest the generator.
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@OhEtsu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2638170#Comment_2638170
Circle of Healing completely removes one of two or three viable playstyles for killer and it's not possible to completely get rid of. Ruin slows down objectives that you pressure fir a short while until it's cleansed. I'd say CoH is better. Oh, and the survivor objective is so fast the time wasted for boons is inconsequential unless the entire team is doing them.
DH is not counterable when used correctly. That's not opinion it's fact. I'm not talking about dodging hits, just the bullshit distance aspect. Also the main issue with it is the fact that it works best against the weak killers who can't afford to have their chase extended, which makes it even worse.
I do agree with NOED, but I've also countered it multiple times in solo queue games. It's not as bad as you make it out to be.
I don't have bias, especially considering the fact that I haven't ran any slowdown in months.
Also, considering Dead Hard, I am not even going into killer specific counters yet. As Hinderance also slows down the boost that Dead Hard has. Doctor fully denies any survivor action(vaulting, dropping pallets, hopping in lockers, and yes, dead harding) for 2.5 seconds for everytime he hits a shock. Huntress can get around DH in chase by holding a hatchet and throw it when they need Dead Hard to dodge it but cant afford to use Dead Hard at the time. Plague with red puke can easily burn through Dead Hard. I am not including instadown killers for obvious reasons. Trapper now has a common addon that gives him the ability to essentially surprise survivors who Dead Hard over traps, you'd literally gain 20 of these addons for every match you play. Wraith's lunge, believe it or not, is more than long enough to take longer than DH's animation and dashes further, meaning you'd easily catch up to a survivor and still hit them. Nemesis has a very niche one: his zombies can hit through i-frames(if you place a trap next to you while you pick up a survivor who has DS, they wont be trapped because of their 2 seconds of i-frames, Nemesis can pick you up next to a zombie and it will instadown you, this also applies to Dead Hard). Hag can down so efficiently that she doesnt even care if you have Dead Hard. Heck, Dead Hard is pretty much required if you want to succesfully face a good Hag. Freddy and Clown have hinderance effects, which reduce the distance DH can make. Demogorgon, same reasoning as Wraith, except the timeframe is smaller(Pig too, except for the fact that her charge time and recovery time is a bit too punishing, but she has hats to compensate). Blight, Spirit, Trickster, Artist, Nurse and Cenobite all kinda fall under the rule of Hag, where they dont really give a ######### if you brought Dead Hard. Twins does care, but not much as she can simply use elevation to bypass the 16 meter rule.
That leaves Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Ghostface, Myers and Legion who have some issues with DH. Myers and Ghostface because they need to expose survivors, and the more aware survivors are, the harder it is to get them exposed. Deathslinger, kinda depends on the addons, otherwise doesnt really care too much about DH either, it's that he isnt 115%, otherwise he would join the list of Blight and Spirit. Pyramid Head, well, he can bypass DS. If you can bypass DS, you're already strong enough to not really care for DH. Leaving pretty much only Legion. And yeah, Legion is in that perspective quite a sad killer. Luckily for Legion, he can keep survivors injured very easily and Blood Echo is a perk.
Leaving no killers that dont have ways of dealing with Dead Hard specifically.
As for killers that have no real ways of succesfully dealing with Sprintburst.
Doc, Freddy, Pig, Legion, Ghostface, Pyramid Head, Trickster, Nemesis, Demogorgon, Clown.
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@OhEtsu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2638170#Comment_2638170
Circle of Healing completely removes one of two or three viable playstyles for killer and it's not possible to completely get rid of. Ruin slows down objectives that you pressure fir a short while until it's cleansed. I'd say CoH is better. Oh, and the survivor objective is so fast the time wasted for boons is inconsequential unless the entire team is doing them.
DH is not counterable when used correctly. That's not opinion it's fact. I'm not talking about dodging hits, just the bullshit distance aspect. Also the main issue with it is the fact that it works best against the weak killers who can't afford to have their chase extended, which makes it even worse.
I do agree with NOED, but I've also countered it multiple times in solo queue games. It's not as bad as you make it out to be.
I don't have bias, especially considering the fact that I haven't ran any slowdown in months.
Hit and run was never viable in high ranks, so irrelevant. As for slugging, same reason why Boon Exponential isnt as strong: you'd have to be downed there. Let alone that you'd essentially have to allow survivors to gain value from boons. There are only 2 maps where I'd say boons are somewhat of an issue, and that reason is similar but actually the direct opposite of what allows Twins to camp basement hooks from 2 meters distance(even though she needs to be 16 meters away from other hooks). And even then, hexes on those maps are even more deadly.
Ruin affects survivor playstyles a lot more than boons affect killer playstyles.
Survivor objective isnt really that fast. Finishing 5 gens isnt the survivor objective. Escaping is. Gens are simply 1 part of it. Once 5 generators are done, the game doesnt end.
Oh, and it's not counterable? So, Bamboozle doesnt exist? Kicking pallets doesnt exist? Exhaustion inducing perks and addons dont exist?(Fearmonger is actually very good on a lot of weaker killers, partially because it fully denies Dead Hard), instadowns dont exist?. Let alone that using an exhaustion perks always gains you distance, and Dead Hard objectively gives you the least amount of distance while using the most resources. If you Dead Hard to a pallet, you lose both an exhaustion perk AND a pallet. If you 99'd Sprintburst in the same scenario, you wouldnt even need to drop the pallet. Let alone that Dead Hard is always a straight line, meaning if you didnt angle up right, you'd actually be quite some distance away from where you wanted to be. Dead Hard is heavily annoying, sure, but it's not even the strongest exhaustion perk in the game. It's one of the easiest to use, sure, but even then, Balanced Landing will have a bigger impact on most of your games than Dead Hard since survivors gain more distance. The only benefit Dead Hard has over other exhaustion perks, is i-frames. Survivors pick dead hard, because it allows them to dodge an attack they otherwise wont be able to dodge. Yeah, there are some other uses, but every single other use is outdone by Sprintburst alone.
And yeah, I have countered NOED plenty of times, but that doesnt make it less of an issue. You could be hooked, have NOED spawn next to you, and you're dead. You could have killers camping their first kill, then use NOED to kill 1-2 or maybe 3 more survivors depending on if survivors know you're camping.
I can make a huge list of things that are wrong with survivors, but perks aint it. Items are, especially medkits. 1 grey medkit is more powerful than CoH(seriously, you would have to pretend Boons dont exist at all and be surprised everytime someone gets healed in 8 seconds for CoH to beat Medkits). If I would change anything in this game, it would be for survivors to have a specific chest in the killer basement where they would need to gather their item if they want to use it. Spending 12 seconds on gathering the item while giving the killer some actual counterplay against items(3 people using BNP with purple toolboxes and socket swivels on a gen literally makes it impossible to defend that gen, spending effectively 36 survivor seconds in the most killer sided room on the map would be a fair mechanic to obtain your specific item with specific addons). As for things wrong with killers, perks also aint it. Maps are. I think DBD has been experimenting with killer seed based maps, as I have seen certain configurations be common for killers like Blight and Nurse, configurations that are near impossible for killers like Clown or Myers, while when Myers or Clown is picked, the configurations are very doable by those weaker killers(example being: the game room in Dead Dawg Saloon doesnt have a window against Blight and loses survivor beneficial doors so they can dodge his power, while when facing Myers, all doors are shut and the window is open). It's not perfect, but if it's true, it's at least a start.
And yeah, you dont need slowdown, at all. Which kinda contradicts the statement that survivor objective goes too fast. If you dont need slowdown, how is it going too fast? It would be going too fast if you need slowdown.
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@OhEtsu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2638138#Comment_2638138
...I have literally never ran NOED in my life. Nor do I facecamp, or get ran for several gens. You know why? Because I'm actually good. If you see me complaining, it's going to be about something that genuinely needs changes, and over half the time it's going to be MMR.
Not to mention the fact that NOED is a ######### perk anyways that actually good survivors have no issues countering, and that Dead Hard is uncounterable when used correctly. Or that boons, Circle of Healing in particular, are extremely bad design literally mirroring old Undying, but with a stronger effect than Ruin.
Good survivors don't complain about ######### killers, or ######### perks. Get good.
Boons having a stronger effect than Ruin, thats heavy grasping tho. You dont really need to do anything to gain any value out of Ruin. Survivors would literally need to never leave gens and never do totems to not give you any value. Once they cleanse Ruin, it already gave you value.
Boons require quite a lot of good decision making, timing, placement and coordination between survivors to gain value, and even then, if it's easily accessible, it would be gone before you gained value out of it. Boons need to actively be used multiple times to gain value, Hexes are pretty much guaranteed to give you value. Boons are strong, but they are only as strong as survivors can manage to make them, just like Self-Care(dangerous in the hands of good survivors, practically a 5th killer perk in the hands of the average survivor). Not even coming to the fact that Boons are nowhere near mirroring old Undying. Old Undying with Ruin literally meant you didnt need to defend your hexes untill you saw an aura, at which point, it was a 50/50 of it being Undying or Ruin. If it was Ruin, another 50/50, assuming they could find it. You as a killer could ignore the vulnerability that hexes are supposed to have and just focus on getting people off gens, while with Boons, survivors have to actively stop their objective to set up boons and use it multiple times for it to start having some value. Old Undying didnt have risk, worst case scenario for you, survivors needed to cleanse 2 totems to get rid of ruin, best case scenario, they needed to cleanse all 5 and couldnt find the 5th. Boons do have a risk, worst case scenario for survivors, they wasted 14 seconds to set up something that got removed, best case scenario, the killer is actually visually impaired and doesnt see survivors run to the same area to heal up or refuses to accept the fact that Boons are a thing.
Not even talking about ways how Dead Hard is counterable.
As for NOED, you're forgetting comms. Good survivors with comms have no issues countering NOED. That is why NOED is a problematic perk. It's a perk that's extremely strong against solo survivors, but weak against SWF.
I do agree with most of that you said prior to this, as this guy is complaining about Iron Maiden because it counters BBQ(guess he hasnt seen Iron Maiden on a Doctor who uses Whispers yet). But you should have stopped before you jumped into personal bias.
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@Blueberry said:
First of all, map wide. No need for a distance cap on mediocre effects.
Second aura reading, not some measly location ping.
Lastly the aura reading lasts while they are within 12 meters of any chest. Will Persist for 10 seconds after leaving the area.
This all would be a good start.
10 seconds is a very long time to see someone's aura though. Even Bitter Murmur and Rancor dont give 10 second aura reads untill the final gen is done. And even after that, the only other aura reading perks that last longer than 5 seconds are pretty much 1 time uses or hexes.
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What I would change:
Give items gained from chests a specific addon that causes the item to be revealed to the killer every 8 seconds. Meaning survivors could carry an item gathered from the chest, but at the cost of revealing their location. This, IMO, would fit with the perk as the killer wants to keep all the items. Since it needs to be gained from a chest, it wouldnt apply to temporary items like the box or vaccines(it would still trigger killer instinct on where the survivor picked it up).
@Altarf said:
I think Hoarder should make chests close themselves 10-15 seconds after being opened, like Vaccine Cases. No additional item would appear inside - instead, any survivor that takes the time to unlock that chest again will have their time wasted and location revealed. It would also uniquely interact with Elodie's Appraisal perk, as it would (probably) cut off the Rummage action halfway.
I think it'd be a nice buff to a perk that's weak by design, and maintains the subtlety of Hoarder. Part of what makes Hoarder even slightly useful is the fact that the survivors don't know it's active, and therefore aren't prepared for you to ambush them while knowing their location. If you gave an Exposed status effect or something the perk would lose a lot of its surprise factor.
Eh, countering Appraisal like that would never make it work, as you would effectively deny an entire effect simply by equipping it. That is not how perks are designed. Even Iron Will and Stridor are not denying each other everything. Stridor still gains an effect from healthy and downed survivors. No Mither counters Stridor more than Iron Will, and I doubt people would consider No Mither to be a strong perk.
@[Deleted User] said:
I don't understand why they removed the decreased rarity effect.
This is personally my biggest question, I am guessing because it hard countered plunderers, but then they could simply tweak it to the point where iridescent items are never found rather than no iris and purps. Or that it maybe lowered the rarity effect a bit too much without plunderers that survivors would only gain grey items(so no flashlights, meaning you literally do not have access to the weakest item). Otherwise, they could have simply used the perk to have a completely seperate loot table.
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@Kurri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2637865#Comment_2637865
It's like Resident Evil. Dead by Daylight having a Killer featured in the game for a specific franchise is strictly only advertising that the license owner is being paid for. Which the owner of the Stranger Things license is Netflix. They are pretty smart, and I highly doubt they would look at Dead by Daylight being competition over free advertising, like it is for every other license that Dead by Daylight pays for.
If I am putting my money on any reason why BHVR didn't renew the license was because the chapter wasn't making enough money. Demogorgon was never a very strong killer, and personally I haven't seen them played much. Either the characters. Up until they started to talk about how the product was leaving the store. It was all a money making idea on something that wasn't bringing in a lot of money. When Stranger Things is popular again on Netflix, we'll see the License come back on Dead by Daylight.
Thing is, with Resident Evil, you already had RE3 to play against Nemesis and Resident Evil: Resistance to play as Nemesis.
While in this case, Netflix doesnt really have a game where you can play as Demogorgon. Dead By Daylight was that game. So it makes sense that Netflix would want to advertise their new game as THE game where you can play as Demogorgon to Stranger Things fans.
After that hype dies down, there is no reason for Netflix to not renew the old license. Untill then.
As for the chapter not making enough money? You'd be joking. They would do pretty much anything if it means keeping their roster. Demogorgon basically has a cult following. Plenty of money earned from the license. If any license wasnt making them enough money anymore, from a weak killer, it would be Myers(let alone that Myers would now only cost them more money, since Haddonfield still needs a visual update, but they need to go by the license holder to come to an agreement).
BHVR earns about 3 times the amount companies of their size earn on average. So unless they pay their devs 130k per year, they have plenty of income to keep the netflix deal.
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Eh, I am 100% gonna miss Hawkin's. The players who I have seen hating on it tended to be (ex) Billy mains, huntress mains, deathslinger mains and some Trapper mains(but not always, depended on their Trapper playstyle).
Which is understandable, since those killers are pretty much the only killers who are heavily affected by the map's design. The rest of the killers did fine or even excelled on this map.
As for RPD, you'd be surprised how close that map is to being balanced. It's not right now for 2 reasons:
- it misses a drop down near the library
- it misses a tunnel under the staircase from one side to the other
That's it, that's all that is needed to fix RPD from being "nigh impossible" to "I can Swanton Bomb these b*tches to hell".
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Here is a pro tip to hide from BBQ against a huntress.
Tip 1: stand inside her lullaby, it's 45 meters, BBQ is 40 meters, meaning if you are inside her lullaby, you just need to run for 1-2 seconds inward and you wont be seen.
Tip 2: crouch behind generators that arent finished yet, you cannot see aura's through aura's
Bitter Murmur is better than BBQ on huntress since you cant hide from it. Huntresses running BBQ give up guaranteed information for some BP.
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Also, as a last FYI. You know that you as a killer could screenshare your screen with friends, to essentially have 3-5 pairs of eyes that keep track of every detail on your screen? Like that Claudette you didnt see in the corner of your eyes, a friend could have seen it.
If you are mad at comms being used, then use comms while playing killer.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2637833#Comment_2637833
Please provide proof of your claims and statistics.
Otherwise, I disagree and I say that 99% of SWF's have comms and all of them communicate killer location. Especially since official DBD discord has SWF rooms and LFG.
Statistics: look at how many players play in tournaments, it's the 1% of the 1%. Those players are who communicate as accurately as you claim. As for knowing generic killer location, that's not an issue at all. It doesnt matter if you know where the killer is when your teammate farts in the mic and distracts the whole team.