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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800544#Comment_3800544
I think when a perk is only an issue for a handful of Killers, that shows the handful of Killers are the true problem, not the perk. (See Awakened Awareness being nerfed from Nurse alone.)
Awakened Awareness wasnt nerfed for ages tho. And yeah, while Nurse is literally the 1 reason why perks are an issue, the problem isnt that those killers are the problem. Its that the perk is genuinely problematic. Because the killers the perk is problematic on, are also the killers you need to face swf with comms. Meaning that all other killers need a basekit buff, and giving all those killers a basekit buff, means that a lot more perks become problematic, and the problematic ones are in obvious need of a nerf.
Like, lets take Grim Embrace, an amazing tool for someone like Trapper, but its mostly used on a killer like Blight who doesnt need it in the first place. -
@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800436#Comment_3800436
Delete the tombstone items and make him able to Mori the Obsession basekit, or able to build up to a basekit Mori somehow.
Nah, his 4 kills with judiths tombstone is an iconic play, getting t3 myers with both iri addons takes roughly 4 gens, even with stuff like Ruin and Deadlock, and somehow getting more than 1 kill without iridescent hair is even harder.
I dont think it should be basekit either (because then any addons affecting any part of his power related to the basekit mori will be kept at an extremely weak spot). The purple tombstone should also still kill people, just not at 5 gens. And maybe if they fix most of the murder options, they might wanna add a visual indicator (like fixing his open hand to just the mori's rather than his movementspeed) to show that he's about to murderize someone. -
@pandorayr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799749#Comment_3799749
Can you guess what is the reason was for nerf "Hex Ruin"?
Yes, the most killers used it but the biggest problem never been fix, I'm talking about "Gen rush", and yes...gen rush exist just as the tunneling and camping.
Many survivors complaing about play against ruin every match was boring.
Ruin was legit an issue on killers like Nurse and Blight tho.
WoO is fine, kinda. Like, its a type of perk that is crucial for soloq, while barely giving any actual benefit for SWF.
You can already guess where windows are, the main issue is pallets that are dropped or gone. If I am in a swf, I can tell my teammates which pallets have been used, which havent been broken etc. WoO is that for survivors. Kindred used to also have a 35% pickrate, because it gave info on what other teammates were doing. Now with the HUD you can pretty much guess if someone is going for a rescue or not. Its not perfect, but its something.
The main issue with WoO is that a survivor can plan ahead where the killer cant, but to be fair, Killers have Zanshin's Tactics which does the exact same thing as WoO. But killers dont run that, even though in the current meta, killers can easily swap out 1 of the 4 gen regression/slowdown perks with Zanshin for basically 0 cost. -
@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
Myers needs some serious numbers tweaks and some updates to what his kit HAS, but not what his kit IS. His kit overall is fine, it's the numbers being off and the need to rework several addons while basekitting others.
Absolutely, everything I have ever suggested is an addon pass and a numbers tweak. He genuinely doesnt need more than that. He could be a solid C tier killer if they just fixed his t1 to modern standards. Btier if they updated his stalking and an addon pass, and arguably A-tier if they also update his basekit.
Like, the dude has potential, its just that every potential he has, has been chained up in the basement waiting to get out. -
@Yoshirama said:
They can buff him whatever they want, but they need to remove his insta mori abilities
Nah, those make Myers what he is, the issue is tombstone piece being very easy to trigger and it removes someone from the match.
I feel like if tombstone piece could be reworked as follows:
You gain the ability to kill people who have no stalk remaining(even in t2). That way, only those who have been fully drained get the stab instead of people who havent even been spotted. -
@Valimure said:
I just hope whatever they do to him, they change his insta-mori and tweak the related achievement. Playing against him is already incredibly un-interactive as is without needing to worry about being instantly removed from the game because your teammates let him stalk for free.
His pink addon-combo is fine, in fact, I'd actually say it should gain a buff, since these are the actions you can do to not get mori'd on the spot:
1. use selfcare, constantly miss skillchecks
2. do a totem, let go for a short second and do it again.
3. sit on a generator, constantly miss skillchecks
4. hide in a locker
5. use a map. Yes, just use it
6. use the key aura
7. open the hatch
8. heal a teammate
9. keep vaulting a pallet.
10. spam unhook a teammate, practically pauses the hook timer while also buying you a LOT of time
11. open a chest
12. pick up and drop an item, so if you run out of map charges, you're still fine.
I could also list a lot of specific perks that counter it, but its ridiculous. If he uses Judiths Tombstone, he's 9% slower already, you can basically infinitely loop him if you slow-vault certain windows. But he should gain the ability to mori downed survivors with that addon. Survivors literally have enough time to finish all gens, even with Dead Lock.
Tombstone piece deserves to be nerfed to the ground tho, I think it should give the ability to permanently turn him t3 and mori survivors during the endgame for free, while blocking the ability to go t3 during the generator time. That would legit be a lore accurate myers endgame. -
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792196#Comment_3792196
I highly doubt it. Twins was left on the back burner for so long because nobody plays them. There was no urgency or pressure on them to do it.
Michael on the other hand is one of the more popular killers. I also don't believe Michael needs as many changes as what Twins or even Freddy does.
Freddy doesnt need a lot either, a small addon pass, give him back the old amount of traps and pallets and he's genuinely fine. Twins is in a weird ball-park where I think she could actually be fine if holding Victor inside her body gave her benefits that she loses while Victor is out, giving reasons to keep Victor away from camping hooked/slugged survivors. Like lets say that Victor-less Charlotte breaks pallets 10% slower than default, but with Victor attached she can break them 20% faster than default. Or Victor-less Charlotte having 10% longer cooldowns after hits, but 20% faster cooldowns if she's holding Victor. Because lets be honest, the only reason Twins players have to play Charlotte, is to bring survivors to the hook.
Twins needs probably a similar amount of changes as Myers, even if Twins changes are real head scratchers balance wise. But even then Twins has gotten buffs relatively consistently, Myers, again, hasnt recieved anything for 5 years. And technically, that means he's gotten nerfed, since map reworks didnt favor Myers, a tall wide killer, because a ton of vision blockers have been removed for killers like Nurse and Blight.
Just as a comparison, remember how people wanted Trapper to be (slightly) reworked and buffed for what seemed forever? Yeah, that was only 2 years after they removed the ability to sabotage traps, something that literally buffed Trapper at the time untill they reworked maps (which, again, also affected Myers equally negatively). The removal of sabotaging traps happened 1 year after Myer's last impactful change, and then he recieved a nerf.
That's how desperately Myers is in need of a nett-buff. Tombstone piece needs a significant nerf, but everything else could almost be doubled in power. I can legit pick 4 addons to basically be turned basekit, and it still wouldnt get him out of the bottom tier. Other than maybe Pyramid head, due to his addons being so ineffective, there is not a single killer you can say that about. -
@TheArbiter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792206#Comment_3792206
Freddy is confirmed to be getting an update first, he is the worst killer in the game right now so that makes sense.
Worst performing*, again, looking at tombstone piece, the singular reason keeping Myers from the bottom because sometimes he can get a very early kill. Remove tombstone piece, and Freddy is objectively better
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@Royval said:
I would want a Freddy update before Myers tbf Freddy is literally the worst killer in the game
No, he's not. He's arguably one of the least played, but worst? The dude can teleport, the dude has anti-loop. The man has quite a lot of nice addons, not amazing sure, but they are fine. And Freddy has literally been meta, twice, in the same duration that Myers has been bottom of the list.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792180#Comment_3792180
I expect Freddy in the next update and Myers in January
I honestly expect them to do Myers first, like literally, its been 5+ years since he has seen any significant adjustment. He has been the weakest killer since 2018. The only reason people putting him not at the bottom of a tierlist is literally tombstone piece
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N87O3S08CAUC/yay.jpg
Its coming. When exactly is anyone's guess.
Yeah, but I feel like he is on the radar like Twins was.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785566#Comment_3785566
The difference between 4.4 and 4.6 from a macro perspective isn't really all that significant. It only really matters for M1 chasing.
In fact, I'd say Trickster probably had a greater ability to generate pressure before his current rework. He's lacking in basically every department now.
then you have no clue about how mobility works in DBD. By buffing him from 4.4 to 4.6, they also buffed all other movement speeds, which is very significant. So lets say Trickster can be a lot better in moving around the map, sure, fine, I can agree he needed that, but now he also moves fast enough in chase to basically ALWAYS gain from throwing knives whenever. If he hits 1 on a loop without having to break the pallet, he can quickly get another 6. Not talking about how it makes him an even stronger tunneller than he already was.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Bhvr is very anti hinderance when it comes to killer powers that aren’t clowns. Huntress had an add on that hindered survivors by 3% for 15 seconds and it got nuked from orbit.
Trickster needed to be 115% because while he could be oppressive in the micro 1v1s at certain loops he struggled severely in the macro 1v4.
In case no one realizes it, being 110% is an insane penalty that accounts for entire MINUTES lost each game. No killer in this game should be 110% without a movement speed ability like Spirit. On top of being 1 of 2 killers in the game that have to drop chase to reload, it’s a huge punishment for even using your power.
He may not be fun for you but not every killer is fun for everyone. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes.
*looks at Wesker, who got 10% hinderance for doing nothing special, and still gets 4% hinderance while having an A-tier ability *
And while I get the idea of trickter being bad at 1v4, this isnt the solution. Or at the very least, reduce his movement speed of throwing knives to the same speed as when he was 110%. Because when they buffed his movement speed, they also buffed all other movementspeeds -
@Burniebotss said:
so…more m1, less skill showcase, another tunnler since deep wound, there’s no way to make him more fun, he’s simply built annoying but doesn’t mean you can’t counter him
Its not really skill showcase anyway. Right now, Trickster is basically a ranged ghostface. But everytime he stalks you, you lose a healthstate. And thats not fun considering not a single map has downsides.
Also, anything "annoying" being basekit isnt healthy anyway. -
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/424200/lame-meta-incoming
Pop got kicked out of meta, it's now solid A-tier on high mobility killers that can afford to PainRes + Pop gens across the map, while it's now B tier at best on rest of the killers, and definitely not your gen protection option for M1 killers lol.
Gen regression meta in general now is not even nearly strong as it used to be, but it's still meta because gens im general are still the main problem for killers across all skill ranges.
And honestly, gen regression meta is definitely nearly as lame as people try to present it, you definitely don't want things like Endfury to become true meta again
Oh, Endfury meta was fun. Its also counterable by predropping strong pallets if you're in trouble, which means less pallet density since survivors throw more pallets. Then its more a game between if the killer is faster in creating massive deadzones or the survivors being able to avoid creating deadzones while finishing gens asap.
And honestly, the most "fun" killer meta was the short lived M&A+Infectious Fright meta. -
@NarkoTri1er said:
if you add that kind of accessibility thing, what would be the point of playing her at the end? Honestly i've never seen e.g. CS2 having accessibility features for people hard of hearing in terms of direction of sounds
except they do, you have visual directional sound cues, visual footstep cues (general direction, its still better to actually hear).
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782920#Comment_3782920
was pointing out the fact that killers always run gen defense so i don't know why the op even pretending like there some new meta.
Its not a new meta, but each new gen regression meta gets more and more boring, because there is no limit on them. You have some killers using 4 perks, with some perks overriding the 8 damage limit (like pain res, it will damage the most progressed gen even if that gen has been damaged 8 times already).
They have quite significantly combatted the hold W for survivors by adding more obstacles, decreasing looping tile density and buffing chase. But survivors having to sit on any gens longer and longer gets boring, especially when tunnelling out a survivor massively slows down the game and that has been a significant problem since 2022.
I never said gen defense should be gone, just like I would never say exhaustion should be gone. I am just saying to buff the individual gen damaging perks but make them exclusive to each other. Right now if survivors have a 98% gen and someone goes down thanks to Surge, just doing what they needed to do, now its a 90% gen, then the killer gets to hook them on a scourge nearby for another 20%, another thing they needed to do, but also get Pop for another 15-20%. So that 98% gen that was already quite a chore with current times, now has been reduced to 55% while the killer did nothing special other than just filling a slot. And as a 4th perk just use Grim Embrace so they cant repair the gen for a while, again doing nothing special.
Imagine if all survivor gen related perks would apply it to nearby gens when they are in chase, or stun the killer with a pallet, block nearby hooks if they open a chest.
And yes, killer time is more valuable than survivor time, but 3 perks working in a row like that without the damage being exclusive is an issue. It's boring, it makes people not want to do any gens whenever you hook and just hide. Hence the post. -
@Sngfun said:
If only there was a perk that countered this strat…
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Surveillance
pro tip: It also increases zombies gen hearing range, which makes them beasts in multifloored maps!
kinda, but you're assuming you can finish a full patrol round before that gen can be popped
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
I cant miss the days when people didnt complain about regression perks because there were none.
Every single game slowdown meta we had was complained about. No exception.
Ruin Pop was complained about because it was the only thing you saw. Kinda the same reason why people (still) complain about Prove Thyself.
And same with Ruin Undying after the Undying nerf, mainly because it was so common.
Every other gen regression meta was rightfully complained about, because there always was a balancing oversight with certain killers, or a new gen regression perk is added with almost 0 consideration of the effects with other perks.
Gen Regression is very easy to overtune, especially considering more regression, gen blocking or slowdown like thana. Having them be exclusive, its much easier to keep em balanced. -
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777654#Comment_3777654
I mean both Riot and Blizzard are using massive FPS games with automatic weaponry and far far far more effects (like flashbangs/smokes/powers). DBD only needs to check one time per 2s at the most frequent (with back to back STBFL/hatchet hits). I think checking 10 600rpm guns being fired simultaneously would necessitate those higher level checks and servers, but DBD is nowhere near that.
All I'm saying is to check with the server on hits like the picture shown below. We currently use the Killer's Screen. Also I'm not advocating for something as extreme as the Survivor's Screen. Just what the server 'sees' at the time of the hit.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7RZRCJ355N4E/servervalidation.png
Also again, I'm merely proposing Endurance for these hits, so a Deep Wounded Survivor still goes down with one of these lag hits, even if they get the server validated Endurance. Or a laggy Huntress could land 3 hits on a healthy Surv and down someone, even if all hits were lag shots. All it does is add a single extra hatchet needed in the worst case scenario (Injured Surv), and in 2/3 scenarios lag shots are still fully effective (Healthy/Deep Wounded).
But the thing is, having any system to check takes a LOT of server effort, especially if you dont directly own those servers and have no genuine control over when to increase/decrease the load of the servers on a whim. The DH and Pallet checks are already quite taxing, and if you are on the laggy end of that exchange, you will definitely notice frame drops.
I know what you mean to implement, but at this point, its EASIER and less laggy to somehow create a replay function from scratch and then have the server check for things. In that case, cheaters could also constantly be rolled back (like if a ghostface teleports 20 meters, he could be rolled back within 100ms) as you can check for coordinates. -
@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/424176/lets-talk-about-artist
Artist main here:
Artist is a really difficult killer and she does not explain how she works. Sometimes I see videos from players who try to play her and do it in the worst way like sending all three birds out to find a survivor or to use her Birds as a tracking tool. They don't fire off one Bird to swarm a survivor and then try to injury or zone them out with a second one. Many players don't like this small time window where you need to hit a swarmed survivor with a second Bird. You also need to think a few steps ahead like placing a Bird in a chase that can be useful a bit later or in a more creative way than just zone the survivor out. Players also don't understand how strong the 8meter hitbox is and how to use it correctly. These are just a few examples, there are some more. It takes some time to understand and play her correctly. She is a really strong killer but why should you spend all this time in the eight strongest killer in the game when you can spend this time in the strongest, second or third strongest killer in the game, especially when these killers are super fast ones which is loved by many players. Overall, Her difficult learn curve, the boring playstyle that see many in her (she is not boring), and the huge time investment are the main reasons why not many players play her.
However, in my option Artist is one of the most balance killers in the game which is good and there is nothing on her that should be changed. Only some of her Addons should get a rework or tweak - the iri ones are so bad or stupid while all of her green Addon (besides the sloppy one) are bad. It is also okay when a killer is underused as long as it is for the right reason (not because she is has a unhealthy playstyle or is hated by many players like Skull Merchant)
I can think of 1 thing I would change about Artist. IMO she has S-tier potential that is really hard to obtain because of stacking cooldowns. But I definitely feel like throwing 3 birds shouldnt be punished more in cooldowns than a Nurse blinking 3 times. Just do a flat cooldown per bird and she would be amazing to play as
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773685#Comment_3773685
I mean it would check every hit (ideally). One check every ~20s isn't going to exactly break the server bank methinks, it isn't like an FPS with automatic weapons. To be fair though, I don't have coding experience with programs interfacing with the internet (only local system).
So the problem with a lot of things is TPS and ping. Basically, you can see every player as its own NPC that recieves input from someone else. If that NPC is 500ms behind the real player, that means the player gets hit up to 0.5 seconds after they fully turned the corner. To check that locally is relatively simple, because they either basically have 0 ping or the ping is practically 0.
Ping is always the issue here, because you not only have to keep track of the killer input, but also survivor difference. You basically have to constantly calculate what the actual position is on the server.
You can somewhat mitigate that with having an actual game being played on the server itself, giving you a chance of a replay and all inputs are executed on the server, but that requires some beefy servers. Riot and Blizzard literally own entire warehouses to support their games being instanced on their own servers. BHVR aint that big (yet), and it will almost never be a financially sound decision unless they basically get regular events that are sponsored by Microsoft or smth. Instancing a game like that on rented servers is basically going to ######### on all other optimizations they performed the past 5 years. -
@Beaburd said:
Hey folks! I posted this on Reddit, but I figured I'd include it here since I frequent this forum a lot as well.
I have been learning some different data visualization software lately, primarily Tableau Desktop, and opted to make a personal pet project to put those skills into use and better ingrain what I've learned so far.
To that end, I played 100 games of the new 2v8 mode during and around the free weekend, collected the data from each game, then made and connected a few interactive Tableau dashboards to better make sense of the data. I also included some basic insights of my own to add some flavor to the project as well as to give me an excuse to test out some new features I hadn't used before (show/hide buttons).
The project is hosted on Tableau's public site, linked below:
DBD 2v8 Mode Stats Tableau DashboardPS: Hover over text and charts for key takeaways points, and use the show/hide buttons to control the display of filters and insights.
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10 Fun Facts from the Data:
- Games are very snowbally, with almost everyone either dying or escaping with very little results inbetween
- Escape and win rates are almost exactly 50% for both sides
- If the lowest scoring teammate had at least 13,000 points, the survivors always won in the 100 recorded games
- Escapist has the highest pick rate among all 4 classes
- Guide has the highest win rate among all 4 classes
- Medic has the lowest pick rate among all 4 classes
- Medic has the lowest win rate among all 4 classes
- Team win rates are at their lowest if the team either does not have any medics, or has more than 2 (so 1-2 medics per team is ideal)
- The killer duo survivors won most against was Wraith + Nurse; whereas they had the lowest win rate vs Wraith + Huntress
- The map with the highest survivor win rate was The Thompson House; whereas the map with the lowest win rate for survivors was Suffocation Pit* followed by Disturbed Ward
*Suffocation Pit was bugged where some survivors could not be rescued, and I only got this map 3 games out of 100. That's why I felt the need to include Disturbed Ward as the runner up, since there's more data on that map.
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If anyone has feedback or questions on the data, my insights, or the dashboards in general, feel free to leave a comment! Always happy to try help and/or learn more myself. Otherwise, hope you have fun browsing the data and dashboards!
Thanks for your time!
out of the data and personal analysis, I can 100% say the following on survivor:
- the 4th perk doesnt need to be locked untill the final healthstate, in fact, it would benefit killers more in general than it would survivors. Healing yourself is time consuming and in that same amount of time, a teammate could have healed you up and you would have progressed a gen much faster together than alone. That, and self-recovery should be at least 30% increased. Killers can already down, cage and keep chasing in a fast enough time to get pressure. People slugging definitely wont help.
- Medic is useless in mass, 2 is the most optimal amount. Scout is arguably the strongest one. While Guide generally gives quite an obvious reason for bigger chances of winning due to generator speed, 4 scouts can basically give permanent info on killer locations if they are positioned correctly. The only thing keeping Scout from truly popping off, is that the "killer is within line of sight within 64 meters" seem to be broken. I could see a killer, and their aura would not be revealed. Because while I could see them, my character couldnt make eye contact. And thats the only issue I think scout has to truly show how powerful it was. I think if they fix that and reduce the distance to 48 meters, it would be fine (64 meters is huge, thats a 128 meter diameter, meaning you can stand in any main building and reveal the killer anywhere as long as your character doesnt have something covering their eyes)
- There should be less aura reveals on survivors, or aura reveals that a scout sees when a killer kicks a gen or pallet should be mapwide too (a huntress hitting a surv with a hatchet reveals it to all, so I dont see why this would be different).
- I do think hatch should spawn once 2 survivors havent been downed/caged. That would fully prevent slugging for an 8k(its dumb that this even is a thing), and forces survivors to rescue their teammates or head out, IF they can find hatch before.
- Now ofcourse for killers, Nurse would be fine with this even if she gets a little nerf. Huntress wouldnt need a nerf if they apply all those changes to survivor. Billy would need a little tweaking, Wraith and Trapper can get a significant buff if they do(like wraith getting All-Seeing Blood in his kit, and Trapper getting iri stone or smth).
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@danielmaster87 said:
He just doesn't hold up anymore. He's not viable vs good survivors. If you miss at all with your power, or they're going around a loop forcing you to fake and keep cancelling your power, you lose. And with tiles like jungle gyms, shack, even rock loops, that's especially true. Sometimes you physically won't be able to get them with your power, and are forced to play M1 trash. He has like 5 useful add-ons too. The rest, you might get use out of them, or none at all.
I think he is honestly quite fine atm. A few tweaks in addons could be nice, but he literally has 18 usable addons out of 20. Some are less strong than others, but still impactful enough to bamboozle survivors. They are not even "might get use or none at all" because you will definitely get use out of them if you dont tunnel.
And that kinda is the main issue with 90% of weskers I face, they tunnel. They dont need to, and they have addons that are amazing at giving them early kills if they simply dont tunnel. -
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773628#Comment_3773628
I would disagree. All you need to do is give people (hidden) Endurance by default, and remove it on verification. That fulfills the Deep Wound while injured concept without adding a bunch of new things beyond the verification itself.
Also it would only mess with laggy Huntress mains, who were getting effectively cheated hits, and give them an extra damage state to chew through instead of abusing lag.
Edit: I play at night a decent amount, and also get an above average amount of players VPNing from across an entire ocean, so I really get annoyed by enemy Killers effectively cheating with the bad latency system that favors the Killer almost exclusively.
Well, the problem there is still that you have to check every single hatchet throw. Pallets and DH are already quite a thing, and they bypass pallets by ignoring the validation at all if the killer gets hit with the pallet first (this is very noticable if you M1 and still injure the survivor, because on the survivor end, the hit still connected).
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They are probably going to do the cosmetic ones tho. There is a space for it in the UI, and that space wasnt empty for survivors.
They wouldnt do basekit unbreakable, but they HAVE to if they do finisher mori's. Hence they wont do finisher mori as basekit -
@MechWarrior3 said:
What’s happening to my Plague? :/
The only things I can think off is removing the aura reading from the iri (or reworking it into something else) and changing any stun to only pallet stuns again (imo, the biggest issue was blastmine, headon is fine)
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@mizark3 said:
Her hitboxes are fine, it is the latency that makes it horrible. 2v8 just reveals a flaw that has existed for a long time, any laggy Killer gets bullschenanigans hits because there is no server verification. The best solution is to add server verification (like during that one patch where pallet stuns had verification). If a server sees someone clearly around a corner from a hatchet, then deny the hit with the verification.
Alternatively, we could do a middle ground, and deep wound on injured hits when server verified. That way you can tell lag hits on injured Survs if you Deep Wound them instead of downing them. You can still get another lag hit to down them, but it gives just enough on the Surv end to know their efforts weren't useless. People forced into far off servers as Killer can still get downs eventually, but would be enough of a disincentive to VPN for a lagvantage like currently happens.
The deepwound is REALLY difficult to code in without creating more lag tho. The best solution is to simply move the hitbox on hatchets a little to the back of the projectile. That way, there could be like a 0.2 second delay on a survivor getting hit, but a hit would 100% be a hit. While a survivor turning the corner would not get hit.
It would mess with Huntress mains who have the entire throw with muscle memory, but it shouldnt impact their performance. -
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773382#Comment_3773382
Ah. I know he seems pretty oppressive in games where I see him. I assume the devS want to tone him down some to give survivors some kind of counter play beyond trying to maybe, hopefully, hide behind a wall and hope he can’t curve.
Well, there is a bit of other counterplay, but its just that he can tunnel so easily with overdrive. And if he cant instadown in overdrive, that means that he wont down quick enough to tunnel someone out at 4 gens. Could probably tunnel someone out at 3 gens tho, but at the very least thats winnable for survivors.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773450#Comment_3773450
Just because Nurse is a problem doesnt mean distortion isnt a problem. Because of 1 killer rest of the killers shouldnt suffer no?
How often do you see full aura reading builds anyways? Most common killers i see rocking aura readings are nurse and huntress, and even then they usually have 1-2 gen defense perks or some form of slowdown.
Full 4 aura reading builds means the killer has no gen defense and 4 survivors should be able to do gens pretty damn fast. No where to hide is easy to regonize if the killer has it. If the killer straight lines at you after kicking a gen you learn she or he has that perk and next time don't hide near the gen. Weave attunement is only strong with franklins and even then there is counterplay … but sadly survivors never use this counterplay.
Most times you will only see 1 or 2 aura readings on killers. 4 aura readings on huntress usually means they like to snipe and do long shots and why would anyone hate a huntress whos that good to be able to pull those?
Also again i like to remind my hate towards distortion is purely because people using that perk tend to be selfish. They hide and won't take chase even if they have 0 hooks and death hooked person is getting killed. Multiple times i have been left to die on hook while people hide in corners. I wish i could say this is broken MMR problem but more and more even 4000 hour players are playing as selfishly as possibly not caring about anyone, and using builds to go with that playstyle hurts teammates and killers. I don't care if you want to urban evase all match but i don't think its fair that 1 perks allows you to hide from the killer while rest of us die.
Oh I picked Nurse because its the easiest, but Wesker, Blight, Spirit, Huntress, Plague, Nemesis, Billy, even Clown can all do massive damage if they go for aura reads.
Distortion is a problem, but the main reason its not changed is because aura reading is an equally large problem.
As for the counterplay, there really isnt one. If you unhook someone while having an item, you literally gave the killer free camping. How to counter that? You cant. By the time you can pick up the item, the killer can proxy enough to down you before you even unhook -
@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773470#Comment_3773470
With iron will back on the manu I would not care much if people play spirit.
Well, I dont think you realize how good Predator Spirit was to fight against Iron Will. And now there will be a literal line tracing you if she uses it while before it would have looked slightly closer together than the current picture.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773298#Comment_3773298
The counter IS easy though, the perk tells you exactly when it is in effect. The survivor that dropped the item should know where it is because they got hit and dropped the item. It takes maybe 15 seconds to move the item to a corner and drop it, and then what happens? Now the killer has 2 perks instead of 4.
Would you rather they run 4 slowdowns instead? Because quite literally every single time some new perk combo comes out for killers, survivors complain until it disappears, and guess what? Back to 4 slowdowns it is, because every other killer perk is basically worthless.
It tells you when it is in effect, but it DOESNT tell you where the effect is coming from. The survivor that dropped the item doesnt know where it is, because that survivor doesnt know where the hit was registered, as the item drops where the killer injures you. But if you vault a window and drop down, that survivor wouldnt know.
Not to talk anything about how EASY it is for a killer to take advantage of that, if the item dropped close to a hook, its free camping from a distance. And yes, I rather have 4 slowdowns than ANY permanent aura -
@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773334#Comment_3773334
Idk if you are out of the loop, but predator no longer does this, in fact it does the opposite, it clumps scratch marks toghether making them harder to see, while yes the perk needs a rework because it is detrimental to use it idk how its related to this change.
Thats exactly what the update will do tho, they will gather scratchmarks more than they used to gather before. I get that the new scratchmarks had a little bit of a spreading issue, and then a lighting issue (not too much tbh, and nothing color blind settings couldnt fix, its a workaround sure, but whatever). But after this update, everyone will play Spirit because of how easy its gonna be to trace.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773269#Comment_3773269
I don't really think Aura reading needs a nerf in general. As it stands I don't think there are any super problematic perks. The only problematic forms of Aura reading are stuff like Blight's Compound 21.
8 meters is not a large range whatsoever, it just applies in a large number of places in the case of Darkness Revealed. An aura perk that revealed Survivors within one singular 8m radius would basically never get any value.
For what it's worth, I don't want to see Distortion gutted, but as it stands you can throw it on and have complete immunity to aura reading against any killer with a Terror Radius. It is rare that Distortion tokens will ever get exhausted, regardless of how many aura reading perks the killer brings, and I don't think that's ok.
All they need to do is make Distortion only recharge in a chase. That way, it remains a potent counter to aura reading as a whole while not being a functionally unconditional counter to all sources of aura reading in the game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773349#Comment_3773349
Lightborn doesn't even fully counter Blast Mine. You still get the stun so it's functionally the same amount of time wasted, you just have the killer see your aura.
While the rest of those things are correct, Distortion currently counters:
A Nurse's Calling, Alien Instinct, Awakened Awareness, Barbecue & Chili, Bitter Murmur, Blood Warden (sort of), Darkness Revealed, Eruption (also sort of), Friends 'til the End, Gearhead, Hex: Retribution, I'm All Ears, Lethal Pursuer, Nowhere to Hide, Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage, Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick, Shattered Hope (sort of), Thwack, Territorial Imperative, Weave Attunement.
That's not to mention the ~55(!) addons there are (I didn't count Scratched Mirror).
Distortion counters LEAGUES more than Franklin's and Lightborn combined.
Like yeah, there's the argument to be made that Distortion needs to exist as a counter the huge selection of aura reading that exists. I agree with that sentiment, and I'd like to see Object buffed too. But to have ONE single perk slot counter 20 perks and 55 addons for practically the entire game is far too much.
They just need to tone down the recharge. The perk will still be an extremely effective counter to aura reading, it just won't completely obliterate it at all times.
To be fair, if there are 75 things that can cause aura reading, and any single aura reading is enough to turn Nurse from an S tier to an S+ Tier killer, demanding more than 4 perks (yes 4, because all survivors need one) to counter them all is insane.
At the very least, blinding is a basekit mechanic since you can find items in chests, and it can mostly be avoided (except for flashbang, but thats a perk) by looking towards any wall. Aura reading isnt a basekit mechanic, with no genuine basekit counter. You used to be able to hide behind gens, but then they made generator aura's partially transparant.
And just look at 2v8, the billion aura readings is one of the biggest problems with it, since there is genuinely no way to avoid it. Aura readings are very powerful, there is a reason why back in the day there were only 3 viable aura reading perks, and 1 technically not being an aura reading perk (Bitter Murmur). Right now, almost all aura readings are viable on their own, which is fine, but they dont have limitations. The strength of the aura perk relies on ease of use and range more than duration and cooldown (to a point ofc, like, 50 seconds of aura read would be worth kicking 10 generators). And 95% of aura addons and perks require little to no work while giving quite a massive value at almost unlimited range.
The most problematic ones being Lethal Pursuer(you literally do nothing), Nowhere to Hide(you literally just kick a gen that arguably needed kicking anyway), Floods of Rage (you literally do nothing), Weave Attunement (since its unlimited time). But even perks like Gearhead, Darkness Revealed and Bitter Murmur are issues, because they can be combined with something else too.
So either a basekit mechanic gets to be that survivors get a warning that their aura's are being shown, which heavily nerfs a lot of addons and most perks too, or the perks all need higher restrictions and maybe even exclusivity in the sense that you cannot have more than 1 aura perk active on any survivor for X amount of time. Like, lets say 1 aura effect gives a survivor 20 seconds of aura immunity once that read ends. It still makes a lot of aura perks viable together, but it wont be that a Nurse can use Gearhead to find people super easily after a down so she basically has 30 seconds of aura reading, then get close and use Nowhere to Hide, then use Floods of Rage because that person got unhooked on a scourge, and Lethal Pursuer to basically give her 100% aura duration -
@Ayodam said:
doesn’t he have the highest kill rate now?
He has a pretty high kill rate, but the most common annoyance is that Billies just spam revving to get into overdrive all the time, and overdrive is REALLY annoying to counterplay. Especially when his base ability already does something very similar.
My guess is like others, that they will put a longer cooldown on Overdrive so it cant be spammed, but also give Billy more control on WHEN you activate it, a bit more like Trickster's main event.
Either that, or basekit should instadown, but overdrive should inflict deepwound when they are healthy, to give reasons for either state (if a survivor is already injured, you go for speed to down them faster, but if they are healthy, you're slightly slower) -
@mikaaareid said:
I recently started playing the game and I noticed the ugly sweaters, and they are not in the shop. It's completely unfair to new players not to have a chance to own them. Is there a chance they'll appear in the shop, at least in Christmas time?? I already lost 8 years of exclusive cosmetic content, some of them should at least go in the shop every once in a while while maintaining their exclusiveness.
The only truly exclusive cosmetic is Legacy. Any Prime skin will eventually release in the shop (I think its after 2 years), any event skin will return during those events (and sometimes during the year).
The only exclusive-exclusive skins would be like Nancy, Steve and Demogorgon when they left DBD, as those skins were tied to a license. If the license expires, then the skin becomes truly exclusive. -
@Mag1cian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771749#Comment_3771749
It is visible after game but still seeing prestiges in pre-game is better. And IMO prestiges not the main problem of Matchmaking quality right now but MMR itself.
Even then, it does negatively impact matchmaking. The same with showing profiles tbh (which I think should be removed pre-lobby too).
The only thing I think should be somewhat preferential, is if ANY survivors are premade or not. Since any pre-made does affect whether you should leave hook or not. A premade definitely is more pressured if you leave hook, while non-premades are more pressured if you proxy the hook in your patrol. -
@Ohyakno said:
So killers can't generate pressure by slugging anymore? Nah.
People pretend like it happens all the time but it really doesn't. There's only a handful of killers that can generate enough pressure to slug an entire team without huge mistakes from the survivors.
I've been playing since blight released and I've only been bled out less than a dozen times? I know, I know "muh experience". People who the it happens a lot are simply suffering from negativity bias. Sorry.
you dont need to pressure by slug when you can spend literally 0.8 seconds sending them to a cage
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@DPYROAXIS said:
I see your side but iit's about adaptation. Every player has a set skill set, no special perks. Doesn't matter if you play a fresh character vs a P100 you can't play the same way as a 1 vs 4 game. I do agree with the aura reading tho, I have been hit by aura reading and I am pretty sure I was at least 40 metres from the gen. I saw their pink aura look about then come for me from a distance and I was behind a wall so no direct line of sight.
There is a slugging issue too
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773292#Comment_3773292
To be fair, you're supposed to be able to see scratch marks across the map. That and crows being disturbed are the main ways killers have of noticing survivor positions at basekit.
The basekit solution on the survivor end, if you're trying to hide, is to not run or to have LoS blockers between you and the killer. Otherwise, you should expect that the killer might notice you and come to chase you.
My main issue is legit that this is basically Predator t2. So I feel like that perk needs a rework with that change too
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773269#Comment_3773269
Sole Survivor is an anti-teamwork perk, and should be nerfed too. In fact, all of the perks that help enable the "excessive hide, and wait for your survivors to die" strategy, should be nerfed.
Lol, Sole Survivor isnt an anti-teamwork perk. The benefits do NOT outweigh the downsides. It's balanced to make the 1v1 or 1v2 easier.
Besides, in theory, 90% of the perks could be claimed "excessive hide and wait for your survivors to die". In which case, all "find survivors for free" perks should be nerfed too. And thats basically 95% of killer perks. -
@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771920#Comment_3771920
Let's suppose the killer just goes for chases. As you said, 1 survivor is doing gens.
What do they get for hooking all 4 survivors? Apart from perks? Nothing.
What do they get for hooking all of them again, with none dying? Nothing, no kills again.
How much time has passed? Supposing a chase is very short, like 45 seconds, that's 45*8, which is enough to complete all gens.
Btw, if with mid tier killers, in 1v1s good chases on average last 2 minutes, if not even more, there's a reason: either maps are unbalanced, or you have to buff mid tier killers in chase to make them A tier.
Oh not all survivors, but always having a different survivor on hook does mean you can benefit more from different weaknesses. If you hook the same survivor 3 times in a row, you are basically facing the same strenghts and weaknesses the entire match. Which could be hugely beneficial (which is why tunnelling specifically needs a nerf, not hooks, but BHVR understandibly doesnt want to risk implementing something OP), but also very detrimental. Swapping between survivors means you get to see more weaknesses and really hit where it hurts, while tunnelling only hurts 1 survivor in reality and thats not fun.
Optimally, you want survivor 1 hooked, then 2, then 1, then 3, then 1 for a kill, then 2, then 4, then 3, then 2 for another kill and then 4 so you can chase down 3 without having to search out hatch. And this logic is theoretically what should grant you the most pressure. And it does in the current meta, the only killers that dont, are C tier killers and lower.
The biggest issue people have playing killer, is admitting defeat in a chase after cleansing some pallets and keep on with the goose chase. That survivor has used resources in an area and is taking you to a new area with new resources. In that case, especially if that survivor is injured, just go find another survivor. It takes someone else off a gen, and you can push them to the same resourceless area that the other teammate used before, in the meantime the other resources get dropped.
Creating deadzones is the least utilized mechanic modern day killers use, because tunneling is easy and has a similar impact. If we punish tunnelling, creating deadzones would become higher priority again. And for some killers (like clown), a dropped pallet is often worth more than a broken pallet, so they dont even have to kick pallets, because vaulting is slower than running through. That didnt use to be the case, where vaulting was faster than running. And barely anyone is actively using that information except people who manage to get C tier killers into extreme high mmr.
That all is to say, tunnelling early game should be a net negative thing for killers and only be done when absolutely neccesary. And I have done the maths for something that basically does exactly that, benefit the most tunnelled survivor, and it doesnt impact the killer in any realistic way unless he tunnels. -
@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771922#Comment_3771922
No, while I'm chasing one survivor, the others, far away as my opponents always do gens in parallel, will push the gens further because they have 10 more seconds.
So instead I'll break chase and go to the hook when appropriate (which may or may not be about 3 seconds later than usual) and tunnel the heck out of the survivor or ensure the next hook stage.
In the vast majority of cases, while they do have 10 seconds more to unhook, you have 10 seconds more to chase and prevent that unhook from happening afterwards too, meaning that survivors have less room to be sloppy and threading the needle, while you have a bigger timewindow to make up for sloppyness.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Being able to be completely immune to aura reading without ever getting into a chase at all is a bit much.
Fair point, but on the other hand, having 10 super easy to trigger aura perks. Even if you fix Distortion, people are just going to run Sole Survivor instead. Even old Distortion with 3 tokens and no regen is currently S tier because of how many aura reading is going on.
There needs to be an aura reading nerf. Make some perks distance based instead of basically infinite range. Make other perks have slightly higher requirements than kick a gen for a HUGE benefit, or in that specific case, REDUCE the aura reading per hook that you gain. Start out with the 24 meters, sure, but each hook should reduce that range by at least 2 meters so that once you have 8 hooks and are still able to kick gens that often, you'd only have 8 meters of radius (which is still a large range btw, Darkness Revealed is 8 meters per locker, and that one has a cooldown of 30 seconds). -
@drsoontm said:
The first idea that comes to mind is "gens-before-friends is now more powerful".
That means the killer will have to punish it even more harshly, tunneling being the first option coming to mind.
Lol, no, you punish that by not camping and tunneling, but chasing other survivors. If they want to stick on gens till the last second, you now have a 10 second extra window to chase and thus more ways to get rid of pallets for free.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
I don't think it's gonna be good:
Killers still have NO default incentives to leave hooks and not tunnel or camp.
So it's STILL not gonna solve the fact that tunneling a person in 3v1 ASAP is always the best play.
Now perhaps even more the best play, considering survivors can just finish the gens and save last second.
They DO have an incentive to leave hooks and not tunnel and camp. Its called pressuring survivors. Its really easy, you have 1 person on the hook, so you chase another survivor and now 3 people cannot waste time on gens.
For survivors to leave someone on hook for 70 seconds, without you already having hooked someone else, means that either a lot of pallets have been destroyed by you, aka easy downs next time a survivor goes there, or you have been royally outplayed.
This 10 extra seconds is additional pressure to leave the hook, because you literally cannot afford to stay in 1 place for 70 seconds. -
@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771873#Comment_3771873
Explain what buffs survivors got this patch.
Next patch will have 10 seconds longer hookstates, to mitigate the strength of proxy camping a lil. Buffed a few low tier perks that genuinely cant hurt getting a buff (like Deception, the strongest perk getting a buff is Wiretap going from needing 45 generator charges to 36 charges (50% to 40%). And the rest is similar small numbers being changed so they can be used more often
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@legiondoctor said:
I see this absolutely a survivor patch. Theres 2 killer buffs and all survivor buffs. Why no buffs to killer perks?
wdym? There has been 2 killer focussed patches
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The longer someone is on a hook, the more pressure it creates for you. The more reason survivors have to unhook.
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100% killer sided
Killers could slug from the start instead of doing anything, survivors cant pick themselves up untill they are dead on hook. Survivors cannot rush gens without killers being able to do something about it.
The hardest time you have as a killer, is if all 8 survivors spawn next to a generator and no one else there, so you could in theory lose 5 gens within 90 seconds.