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@Star99er said:
the amount of evil within(stalk) required going from tier 1 to tier 2 should definitely be reduced, tier 2 to tier 3 as well but not as much as the first one. The amount of setup required is very time consuming. Some of his add ons like the stalk movement speed and aura reading ones should also be reworked imo.
Oh, the only aura one that is an issue is the T1 shard. His stalk movement speed addons are legit fun to use. Currently its bugged from what it was. Before the UE5, it was additive to the basekit multiplier, now its multiplied with the basekit multiplier. Difference? Before you could reach 5.0 meters per second with 2 stalk movementspeed addons, being faster than normal movement speed. Now you can at most reach 4.2 meters per second (105%), which is slower than normal movement speed. Which is probably the intended effect, but its an extreme difference in usefulness.
Before the update, T1 myers with green speed addon was "good", better than Boyfriends Memo. Now? Its absolutely the opposite. And Boyfriends Memo was never that good -
Well, thats fair and dandy, but most of his tweaks other than tombstone piece are literally 5 minutes of work. Enable his bloodlust again (they have disabled bloodlust before, so it must be nothing but a switch by now), increase the multiplier of his movementspeeds by stalking from 0.2x and 0.6x to 0.5x and 1x (why slow him down if he doesnt see any target anyway?) and change the number to his t1 movementspeed from 0.914x to 0.935x.
The rest needs bigger changes, but these easy number changes will be already HUGE and could be implemented with the next patch -
@Toxicboii said:
I want to take a step back from the game for a moment to actually look at the bigger picture.
Long story short: Why do some offerings exist?
The kind of offerings being stuff like the Sealed Envelope and the Hollow Shell, to start with, which offers 25% BP in all catagories.
It's a pretty neat bonus to cover all the bases… Until you realize it has the same rarity as a BP offering that just doubles your gain in all aspects, not just 25%. (Survivor Pudding, Escape Cake.) What's the point in having them both be the same rarity? It's not rocket science to choose the 100% boost over 25%, because they're both yellow Offerings.
And another thing to consider is that while a yellow offering is providing a 100% BP boost in all categories, we have green offerings that give a 100% boost in one category. Only to be outdone by a 100% in all categories to all players, which can stack. (Bloody Party Streamers)
At the time when the BPS, Pudding, and Envelope got released, they were implemented as an anniversary reward, but never got removed. So fast-forward multiple years later, and we've had little-to-no changes to the offerings and their functions as a whole, outside of new additions (which, let's face it, hardly anyone uses).
They serve as a means to tip the scales in your favor, which it does do that well when it's intended to. But everything else is a mish-mashed mess where 25% is equated to 100%, and 100% in one category is equated to 100% in all of them. Don't get me started on the Moris… They used to be a means to end matches early, but now, they're just kind of a neat thing to have.
If anyone has any recommendations for an Offering overhaul, I'd be interested in hearing about it. I bring this up just to bring attention to it, I've no idea how to remedy this myself that isn't just either remove the "50% in [blank] category" offerings, and have the Hollow Shell / Envelope be Common whilst also providing a 50% in all categories instead of 25%.
Offerings in general need an upgrade. For killers, the RAREST addons are green, because map offerings are green. For survivors, the rarest color is yellow, because of yellow addons, offerings and items.
I'd personally want a sacrificial altar where you can put in offerings, items and addons that you dont like, to basically get a small lootbox that has a chance on better things. Like, sacrifice 3 grey/browns to get 1 random yellow item, offering or addon. And then use 1 yellow one to get 2 grey/browns in return if you care for browns. This so that economically, you never gain from sacrificing and eventually do need to use the bloodweb.
This would give use to the 25% BP offerings that aid new players, while also being basically sacrificial fodder for long term players.
As an example, I have 1000 Blond Hairs on Myers, because I simply never use them, I dont have a reason to. With the logic above, I could get 333 random yellows (addons and offerings), and then turn those into 111 random greens. I also have about 50 iridescent mori's that I never use, because I might aswell use one of the tombstones I rarely use. So I can turn those into 100 random purples, and then turn those into 200 random greens. I can keep cycling through sacrifices untill I get what I want, and ditch what I dont need, at the risk of losing everything if I never get what I want.
That would allow me to spend BP on killers and survivors who need it more, instead of spending it on killers and survivors who have a massive inventory, but dont have any Midwich offerings.
Then the same sacrificial altar mechanic could be used to see what addons/offerings/items people care the least about, so they may be tweaked into something more useful. -
@Belzher said:
People with mandela effect saying it was always like that smh
Even Otz reported this in a video.
Because it used to be doable way back in the day. Besides that, stuns get her out of her power. And it is incredibly rare to stun a Plague using her power anyway. I've never been able to use a Blastmine against a Plague using Corrupt Purge. Nor have I been able to use Head-On against a Plague with Corrupt Purge (well, once, way back when she was released, and it did get her out of her power).
I dont think this is genuinely going to affect Plague anyway. Most Plague mains I've talked to have played as if Head-On and Blastmine would get her out of her power anyway. -
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708563#Comment_3708563
It literally does
Nope, a direct counter is something like Saboteur stating you could disarm traps with it, or how Small Game was a direct counter to Trapper and Hag (maps still have this mechanic tied to them, which will be resolved one day). A direct counter here would mean that using the perk directly counters her. But it doesnt.
It is an indirect counter, just like how Iron Will is an indirect counter to Spirit, or how Lightweight is an indirect counter to Spirit. Or how Fixated is an indirect counter to Pinhead, or how No Mither is an indirect counter to Spirit/Twins. Or how Any Means Neccesary is an indirect counter to Wraith (you can stun a cloaked wraith, pick up the pallet and stun him again). Or how Second Wind can instantly heal Legion's mending if he hit you off the hook, without any of the negatives from addons. I could go on and on. There are literally dozens of perks that indirectly counter a killer. You could even argue that Any Means Neccesary counters Knight, because you can drop a pallet while being hunted to prevent being hit by the Assassin (as it slows them down), and then reset the pallet so the killer cant break it.
Plague loses her power due to a stun, a perk with an entirely avoidable stun makes Plague lose her power. Therefor, it does not counter Plague directly. Especially since they are completely avoidable (you dont really want to kick any generator while using your power anyway, it allows survivors to get away). And you could argue that you have Nowhere To Hide and want to look nearby for survivors.
But guess what? THAT PERK ALSO BREAKS THE "RULE". Because technically, that perk Buffs Plague's basekit specifically. And those perks were also changed deliberately. Like, how Tinkerer no longer affected addons. Or how perks like Hex:Lullaby and Unnerving Presence no longer affect Doctor and Pig (this does get bugged from time to time). And Nowhere To Hide technically buffs Plague with her power.
So, we're reaching an impasse. Either we also give Plague blindness while she is using her power, making any aura reading perks completely useless in her power, giving her a massive nerf. In fact, Nurse would need to be blinded whenever she can blink. Or we keep the current status quo and keep the perks that indirectly affect the effectiveness of killer abilities.It doesnt counter Plague directly. Period. If it does, then we need to remove all killer perks that reveal survivor aura's whenever the killer can use their m2.
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@CarlAlc7 said:
Considering that the devs said that they don't want survivor perks to directly counter killers' powers anymore it doesn't make any sense why they'd suddenly allow stun based perks to remove Plague's Corrupt Purge.
because they dont directly counter Plague
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@fussy said:
I'm talking about losing power from any stuns, not only from pallets. There was nothing about it in patchnotes, but i won't be surprised if it's not a bug.
Easy answer is Yes it was bugged, and it wasnt in the patches because it wasnt fixed.
So why did it change? Because they converted the files. Suddenly, everything that was supposed to work when Plague was released, but didnt, started working.
Its the same with Nurse and her Fatique after a stun. -
@moputopia said:
It's using a third party software to gain an advantage in-game, so by definition yes. This really is just the filters debate all over but in audio format lol.
At least gamma filters are relatively tame. You could in theory see things anyway. With sounds, you could remove all your personal noises, remove the noises from fires, reduce noises from gens. You could literally block any noise that is not made by a survivor. Like Diversion.
Its so, so much worse than just filters. Its closer to stretched res -
@ember__lol said:
I will die on this hill btw.
Tunneling is good, it forces survivors to improve at their looping skill, i wouldn't be half the survivor i am now If i didn't get tunneled.
You also won't be tunneled as much if you can improve at looping, killers like tunneling weak links, it's smart easy pressure. If your getting tunneled your probably the weak link, or so good the killer has to prove to themselves or you they can down you, in which case you buy loads of time for your team, and if your the weak link you can improve.
Now, i know alot of people rage bc of tunneling and complain it's bad. They have a skill issue and are not willing to forcibly improve themselves at the game. If they get discouraged and uninstall or leave that's shows alot Abt them. They were never worthy of improving.
If you want to improve you will, if you get tunneled all the time you'll want to improve.
Each time a survivor gets tunneled it creates harder survivors for killers to go against.
Tunneling is ultimately incredible for the games health, i know when i first got tunneled i was like "damn, I'm never gonna let this happen again" and i improved and now killers abandon chase with me after 30 seconds and i sit on gens all match because they know I'm good.
Feel free to disagree. But you have to admit i do have a point. Tunneling creates good players
And no. This isn't bait. And no I'm not a killer main (i play both sides evenly)
Hear me out tho:
Tunnelling at 5 gens should be a negative for killers. Like, giving the most hooked survivor a permanent 5% haste and 5% increase in vault speed untill they are no longer the most hooked survivor.
5% is enough for all survivors to outpace even a nurse or blight tunnelling. But its not fast enough to make tunnelling unviable -
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701015#Comment_3701015
Slugging has a 4 minute bleedout, and if the killer picks them up last second and refuses to kill that survivor, they can plop right down on gens while the killer searches aimlessly for the 4th. By contrast, two survivors trying to outstealth each other can last all the way until the server shuts down at 1 hour. There are multiple ways to prevent afk crows without putting yourself at risk.
Which would you rather deal with? 4 minutes or up to an entire hour?
I rather deal with neither. Both are a waste of time for the sake of wasting time.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/411117/can-we-talk-about-serum-vial
you can detach loops. the only problem is figuring out when he is going to summon husk which requires a lot of knowledge from survivor part.
Normally they give UI/Graphics to survivor related to something specific like that. this time they omitted UI from survivor but killer has UI for husk. Maybe the color of his body or hand changes as Husk charges up. alternatively maybe there is like glowing gas on the killer. creating good visuals is difficult to nail for video game characters.
Even then, a husk is basically permanent. If there is ANY husk within 8 meters, you'll be exhausted. If Unknown is able to push you anywhere nearby a husk, which you dont know will be there, you're doomed for the rest of the chase.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689389#Comment_3689389
Viktor does not need perks or scratch marks to find people. He's so fast that he covers the whole map in seconds. When I play Twins I'm not using Charlotte to find people, I'm using Viktor zooming around the map.
Yeah, but the thing is, with Old Twins, you would go around, injuring everyone ASAP, and then use Victor to zoom around the map. Survivors cannot hide, since they are injured and thus give away sound. Not only that, wherever they run or walk, they leave a bloodpool.
With New Twins, Victor cannot find them as easily, and since survivors can pretty much run away and hide without being found, that gives them a lot more counter play. Sure, Victor could also injure them faster, but as long as they re-add the ability to crush Victor on succesful pounces, then Victor cant be relied on too heavily. -
@Unimatrix00 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699342#Comment_3699342
Except the devs have stated that hiding from the killer for extended amounts of time is a bannable offence.
Yes, and no. As long as survivors are progressing the game, they cannot be banned. And on the other end, if their only way for survival is to wait untill the other is caught, then its a game mechanic issue.
Dont blame survivors for wanting to escape. Back in the day, a 2v1 could be solved by survivors finding 1 key. Either both of them met up, or 1 got out.
In a 2v1, either survivors will need a different objective to activate the gates, or survivors need a catch up mechanic the moment there are more gens than survivors. Thats the only way you can combat hiding being a legit strat.
Its basically how mass slugging is still a massive problem, but in theory, you have a 4 minute timer, so its "fine" (even though current rulings do consider excessive slugging as a reason to temp ban, since you could in theory slug all 4 survivors at the start of the game and they cant do anything for the rest of the game, essentially keeping them hostage for that duration as you have plenty of options to hook).I think slugging and hiding are both solvable with 1 update, by giving survivors basically a way to pick themselves up if they have been able to fully recover themselves (which is 36 seconds), then give them 100% crawling speedboost (again, 40 seconds of being forced to watch a bar fill is quite boring) and whenever they are near anything a survivor can interact with, they can pick themselves up. That would solve excessive slugging quite a bit. Then if there are 2 survivors left, simply give them an endgame switch inside the basement. That would give at least 1 survivor away, and survivors have reason to not hide as much since they have to reach the basement to exit.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689389#Comment_3689389
Viktor does not need perks or scratch marks to find people. He's so fast that he covers the whole map in seconds. When I play Twins I'm not using Charlotte to find people, I'm using Viktor zooming around the map.
Yeah, but Victor will have a sort of terror radius now, so survivors will be informed he's coming.
The problem with Victor was that you didnt know he was coming, and by the time you did, you were too late to get somewhere safe. That gives plenty of time to hop in a locker or run away (no scratchmarks seen by Victor). So if you dont have vision on survivors within 5 seconds of them hearing your TR, they can go somewhere safe.
Again, you're thinking too much of old mechanics with just the injuries/downs being flipped. Thats not the case. Victor is significantly weaker. Unless they add an addon that makes him undetectable for prolonged times. -
I mean, survivors are just not going to heal if you keep playing as Victor. They are going to heal if you play as Charlotte.
This is not overpowered at all. Victor cant use perks to find people. And while true, its annoying for him to constantly search the map. Survivors will hide if Victor is out, tap on gens, hide in lockers if Victor is about to hit them so he latches on.
I agree that on paper she sounds stronger, but she is significantly weaker. The fact that Victor no longer gives killer instinct is already a huge reduction in power -
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640328#Comment_3640328
I don’t find him difficult to counter respectfully.
Respectfully, I dont think you're encountering many people from the SkyBilly association then.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I disagree that Billy is overturned. I’ve escaped 7 out of 10 matches against him in solo queue.
people are trying to loop him and counter him like old Billy and you will lose every time
Yeah, but Billy's has basically recieved a form of anti-loop, while his main strength was already outside loops. If you play Billy like old Billy, you have a very hard time countering him. Especially if he gets an early down or 2 with Grim Embrace and starts camping/tunneling.
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@Murgleïs said:
So, is Billy the new killer to complain about ? I just want to know because I have a job irl and don’t want to invest time into something that is going to be nerfed after survivors complaints.
I mean, yeah, Billy recieved a buff that was a bit overtuned. All he needed was an addon pass and his current best addons as a basekit while having Overheat only as an anti-camping mechanic (aka, gathering overheat when revving and not chasing, honestly quite simple. Have it charge up the way it was when not in chase, but let chase 3x the cooldown on overheat).
They did that, and gave him basekit increased speed and charge when overheated.
If anything is overtuned, people will complain. If DS was reverted to its original state (being able to be used without being hooked), I'm pretty sure all killers would complain and "it would be the new survivor perk to complain about".
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The problem with Myers, is how to balance him properly.
They want him to keep the instakill, which fits his design amazingly (they could still nerf tombstone piece).
They think his basekit is fine (they could revert the bloodlust in T1, and if a survivor with stalk remaining dies, that stalk should be spread over the remaining survivors, and on top of that make Jewelry and Boyfriends Memo basekit)
Then, what I think they need to do besides that, is give him an addon pass. His pink addons are fine, all his purple addons need a revisit (t1 myers needs to buff what t1 can do, t2 myers should reduce the red light, tombstone piece needs the requirement of old Mori's to hook survivors at least once before being able to murder them, and the duration addon can be swapped for one that increases vault speed and lunge range in t3, making that the "t4" addon). His green addons are mostly fine, assuming Jewelry is made basekit. Yellow addons, same thing, except for Glass Fragment, that one should be merged with Scratched Mirror or be entirely replaced, his brown addons tho, all of them can be replaced/buffed.
Then lets talk about his t3 duration addons. Even if you disperse stalk from dead survivors to the ones still in the game, they are extremely scewed. The green one is really good, the yellow one is mediocre, the grey one is only better than the purple one because the purple one costs a ton extra. Its never a good idea to run more than 1, and if you do, its never worth to use Purple or Brown. Myers just needs the green and the yellow one, with the Yellow one adding 25% and the green one adding 50%.
Then, his basekit vaultspeed increases, I genuinely feel like it can recieve a tiny buff. With Wesker being able to dash towards people, basically capable of instadowning AND vaulting windows at similar speeds, Myers deserves his window-vaulting niche to be the best of the best. Survivors should fear windows around a Myers the way they should fear pallets around a Nurse.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403778/first-match-and-it-s-started
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3638004#Comment_3638004
It'll be nice for me, i'll actually be able to play out matches and go for chases instead of hard tunneling out a weak link as the only viable way to slow gens down.
Though personally i'll be dropping pain res for that for nowhere to hide.
Then when they inevitably nerf the DMS/GE combo, i'll swap to GE/Deadlock.
the problem here is that tunnelling is made even easier. I havent had a single match with Grim Embrace where the killer didnt absolutely tunnel you out.
Why is this the case? Because they have no real losses. Before, if they tunneled someone out, Survivors could punish by being gen focussed, the killer would hook 1, then 2, then 1, and was then forced to go back to 2. But since hooking 1 blocks gens, he can leisurely hook 2 without caring too much for gens, then gens get blocked again and all the time in the world to hook 1 again and then tunnel them out. If anyone else tries to replace, he can simply down, hook and continue chasing 1 again.
GE should start blocking gens the way it does now, when not camping, as that is a REALLY healthy mechanic (and honestly, should be basekit), but should stop blocking gens the moment the killer enters a chase.
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@Mooks said:
But where is the swamp rework?
Kinda expected Adrenaline to be looked at sooner. Nice to see some more niche perks also getting looked at though.
Honestly, I am expecting Adrenaline to mostly work the same it does now. Just with a negative clause. Like, heck, I'd even see the perk being buffed (cleansing all negative states for 20 seconds, including exposed from NOED and Broken from Terminus), but then permanently being broken (if you get injured again) and exhausted after the 20 seconds have ended.
It practically wouldnt be a huge buff, since it would only really counter NOED and Terminus for a short time, but it would be a massive debuff since you cannot go for rescues and would want to exit the game ASAP. Killers who dont run NOED and Terminus will now have an instadownable injure
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@Thavus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625098#Comment_3625098
would the killer hook you in that case? Sounds like a juicy free kill and lots of value from the perk
You'd be surprised how often I managed to do this. Let them pick up the survivor, run in their face and they down you instantly
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"With these changes Save the Best for Last can be hard countered if the obsession has Plot Twist.
It will enable survivors to remove all stacks from a safe location, far from the killer."
All stacks, from a perk that can be used twice a game...
They realize this is possible by bodyblocking the killer carrying a survivor while using No Mither already, right?
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@xPrinceHarlequinx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547678#Comment_3547678
I agree with most of this. One of the two points I do not agree with is "but if killer fun is at the cost of survivor chances to escape" portion. The killer and the survivor's goals are conflicting goals. Odds are the fun of both sides will always come at a cost of the other's chance of succeeding because that's just how this game is designed. That being said, neither side should be able to completely delete the other sides experience.
If BHVR is looking to turn this in to a game where 12 hooks is the goal for balance, that is perfectly fine by me. It is what I go for, which frequently leads to me losing games almost on purpose, because I want everyone to have a good time, even if that means I lose.
They need to find a way to incentivize that playstyle, and "haste" is not a suitable reward for doing so. They should rework pain res, and give a weaker version as a basekit incentive for each consecutive unique hook. Maybe like 10 percent regression on a random gen.
Oh yeah, but the thing is, that survivors HAVE to be able to escape. It's why early game is so stacked in favor of survivor, and survivors who maintain that early game momentum are the ones who can escape with 4 people. The killer needs to be able to break that momentum in a way that is fun for the killer, for sure. But if a killer is having fun and easily breaks the momentum without really doing anything special, then it's a problem. Because then literally anyone can play that killer and guarantee 2+ kills. A few examples that currently are in the live version(but not in the PTB), is a Bubba facecamping at 4 or 5 gens with Dead Lock, NOED, Corrupt Intervention and either Insidious or No Way Out. Then that is a killer who can, at basically 0 cost, kill 2 survivors.
But the same is true for the opposite. Survivors shouldnt be able to do 5 gens uninterrupted without the killer being forced to walk across the map all the time.
As for Pain Res being basekit, no, I dont really think that is needed. We already have a small portion of Pop basekit and there are plenty of generator regression methods that would easily be overkill if there is even a 5% basekit pain res. 10% haste for 10 seconds is insane value for all non-mobility killers. It basically means that a killer is capable of walking 51 meters instead of 46 meters. It means that a killer can close a 5 meter gap between survivor and killer in 5 seconds, rather than 8. With the addition of a free bloodlust 1 if they manage to enter chase in that 10 second period, they would be closing that in 3.5 seconds.
It basically allows killers to get back into the game and prevent a gen from being finished, where it normally would be finished.
Haste is truly an underrated killer effect that people consider weak, but that isnt because Haste is weak, its because activating Haste for killers is unconventional.
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@radiantHero23 said:
For the busted idea: Pig + Nurse. Strong slowdown on top of op chase. Trapps can be put at 5 gens no problem. Also.... Your not getting that trap off...
For funny : Hag and trapper. No Bush will be safe.
Useless: two Freddie's.
Honestly, I think 2 Freddies could be incredibly nuts. You cant trust any pallet and you're slowed down at every move, while 1 Freddy can constantly teleport to gens.
I think 2 Wraiths would be useless tho, the only somewhat decent use is one camping basement and bodyblocking while the other would bring in new victims with scourge hooks (assuming Scourge Monstrous Shrine only applies to the one bringing it in).
Maybe when on comms you can do some nasty plays by bodyblocking during chase, but then you have 7 survivors doing gens with 2 killers focussed on 1 survivor, and that's kinda mediocre.
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@UndeddJester said:
Myers strikes me as a god here whoever he is paired with: -
- 80 points of stalk on the table.
- More survivors to find for stalk.
- Global exposed when in Tier 3.
If you combine him with someone like Spirit.... Yeesh...
Not only that, Myers that has Tombstone +3 PWYF stacks, together with Clown that has Garish Make Up Kit and Cigar Box.
He can literally give both killers aura reading, plus Myers running at basically Legion speeds(PWYF gets you to roughly 120%, while the boost from Clown gets you to roughly 130%). If both would run Lethal Pursuer(assuming the effect stacks), you have Clown downing tons of people while Myers kills off 3 people.
The only downside at first is that Myers takes a longer time to stalk up, but Lethal Pursuer alone would give away plenty of ways of gaining stalk early on.
Spirit would be nasty, sure, but Spirit would still need to find survivors.
It's honestly terrifying how powerful lower tier killers are if their powers are combined with any other lower tier killer.
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@Donkeybqlls said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547349#Comment_3547349
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547349#Comment_3547349
I agree 100% regarding the 3gen and camping.
The 3 gen is just bad gen management so it only seems fair that this blows up in your face in the end. At this point the killer won ... is that really so bad?
Regarding the camping, sure I dont like the smelly breath in my face on top of a hook through my body, but I get it as a last resort for the killer to get a kill in there at the end. If you start camping from the start that's just sad you're settling for 3 escapees but ok whatever floats you boat.
I just think it's sad they keep trying to find ways to make the game "not over till it's over" for survs, even if I'm a surv main. Killer should have fun too ... if you really want to add these mechanics, why don't you add a gen to be fixed before they can escape if 2 or more survivors spend to much time before the finish line. Now that wouldn't seem fair either right ... but why should killers not get a last chance
The problem with 3 genning, is that killers can enforce it. Especially certain killers. It's not bad gen management if the killer 3-gens from the start.
Camping early on no longer grants survivors a guaranteed 3 escapes unless they are coordinated survivors, which is rare. Let alone that the survivor on hook gets less than 8k BP in a game where you can get 18k BP for just playing. Both are issues.
Survivors are the ones that have an endgoal. If survivors dont have a "it's not over till it's over" option, they literally have no incentive to try until they are the last one remaining for hatch. Since solo survivors both want the hatch if 2 survivors remain with 3 gens remaining, then you have survivors hiding from the killer at all costs without progressing the game. And you can't punish them for it, as it's not holding the game hostage.
And I agree that killers should have fun too, but if killer fun is at the cost of survivor chances of escaping, then you have a problem that needs to be solved.
As for a mechanic that killers need, adding an extra gen is overkill, but they need a mechanic that rewards them for hooking a survivor. Like 10 seconds of 10% haste to give them an incentive to run back into the match. Or guaranteed bloodlust 1 the moment they enter a chase within 60 seconds after hooking which remains for 30 seconds even if you kick any pallets (which to me makes a lot more sense than Bloodlust appearing after 30 seconds of not kicking any pallets or using your power in a chase)
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@DemonDaddy said:
Not to say there is none, but what control does killer have at this point that is not desired/called for by some survivors to be heavily regulated or limited?
Choice of target: some survivor suggest that killers not be capable of repeatedly targeting the weak link or even the most problematic survivor. As it stands, this choice is already being influenced by the endurance status granted by several perks for various situation and (however effective or not) base bt discouraging the killer.
How many killers would continue to play if forced to take what is currently the least beneficial option?
Choice of action: this one is already fairly limited in option and I mean in reference to killing survivors. What are our options; hooks, mori, and bleedout. In most cases the choice comes down to attempting hooks for a stage 3 payoff or counting on poor survivor performance and bad team altruism for bleedouts. The mori was already changed for survivor benefit and many would like to see something similar for bleedouts despite it being an altruism issue.
Is there really any choice between hooks or failed altruism which can be consitantly applied?
I mean, here are some things taken away from survivors:
Choice of loop: Some killers suggest that survivors not be capable of repeatedly vaulting the same windows or even the most problematic window. As it stands, this choice is already being influenced by the window blocker by several perks for various situations and basekit window blockers discouraging the survivor from staying at the same loop.
How many survivors would continue to play if forced to take what is currently the least beneficial option?
Choice of action: this one is already fairly limited in option, and I mean in reference to escaping the trial. What are our options? Finishing all gens, finding hatch. In most cases, the choice comes down to attempt finishing gens before you reach stage 3 on a hook, or counting on poor killer performance and bad strategy for long chases. The BNP was already changed for killer benefit, and many would like to see something similar to hatch, despite it being a strategic issue.
Is there really any choice between gens or bad strategy which can be consistantly applied?
If your logic holds up for the opposing team, then your logic is flawed.
Yes, good coordinated survivors are extremely difficult and require a high mobility killer that either benefits from obstacles, or that turns obstacles against survivors. But good coordinated survivors are not that common, odds are more likely that you find pairs of 2 survivors who are good at cooperating together, and a soloq fill that is basically RNG if they can coordinate well or horribly with their teammates.
The main issue in DBD from a survivor perspective, is that 1 survivor exits the game before 4 minutes have passed, having only been able to do chase and nothing else, which in most cases means that 3 survivors cannot finish the remaining gens without sacrificing another survivor. While the first survivor dies with at most 11k points out of 40k possible points. And survivors have no basekit strategy to combat this issue.
The main issue in DBD from a killer perspective, is that they need someone dead before the survivors can work on the final gen if they want to consistently have 2+ kills in a game. However, the problem there is that while you want 1 survivor dead, everyone else has 0 hooks.
So optimally, you want to be able to 1 hook at least 3 survivors, and kill 1 survivor before survivors can work on the final gen. This is best done by rewarding the killer with a benefit to get back into the game after hooking, but also by punishing the killer more harshly when they stay when hooking.
Before gens were pushed to 90 seconds, if a killer camped early, survivors could punish the killer by rushing gens. Currently this isnt really possible.
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@Peanits said:
To set expectations realistically, I think the major flaw with this is that there isn't one single reason why people camp. If you ask ten people why they camped, you would get ten different answers. One person might say it's because the Survivors were being overly altruistic. Another might say that they did it because there weren't many generators left and they just wanted to secure a kill. Or camp someone specifically because they had a long chase and the Killer was frustrated. Someone might even do it just because they felt like it.
Even if we addressed every possible reason someone might camp, you'd still be left with some folks who do it just because they can and because they want to. That's assuming we even can or should fix every possible reason, though. In the case that the Killer decides to camp someone who was hard to catch, we can't exactly punish the Survivor for playing well - that's not even remotely fair. Sure, we can continue fine tuning balance to make sure that the reason why they're hard to catch isn't because they got lucky or brought strong stuff, but even if the game were perfectly balanced, one person will always be able to outplay another.
But no matter what the reason may be, the outcome is still the same. It's not fun for the person being camped to have to sit there until they eventually die with no opportunity for them to counter it. This goes beyond something being strong or one sided, it prevents someone from being able to play the game at all from that point on, and it's something we still need to address. We simply cannot turn a blind eye to a major issue until we've systematically dealt with every item on the laundry list of reasons someone might give for camping.
I really think that the biggest issue that exists with camping, is the fact that killers can get huge rewards for doing so, and often feel like they get punished when they dont camp.
I am personally of the opinion to not only place a slight punishment on camping (if you are exceeding the 10 second timer of what the game considers camping, disable the killer's ability and give all survivors entering the camped survivor enduring), but also reward killers who pick up a new chase with survivors who havent recently been on a hook (lets say, 60 seconds or survivors who have done a conspicious action) by giving them bloodlust the instant the new chase starts, 20% decreased stun times and 20% decreased obstacle breaking times. The bloodlust being disabled after 20 seconds of chase, but increase it by 10 seconds if they manage to get a basic attack in(special attacks are generally easier to hit). Heck, give them an initial 10% movementspeed the moment they hook someone so they can rush back into action.
Right now, hooking a survivor is a moment where killer momentum is dead if you dont have a mobility killer. Just punishing an action doesnt hurt all killers equally, but giving a benefit that gives all killers more equal footing will help combat camping a lot more
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474487#Comment_3474487
every killers need to tunnel.
if you don't take out the one without MFT in the current meta you insta-lose the moment the last gen pop due to the hope combo... and considering the Prove-thyself+BNP combo people bring... IT WILL happen.
we are in an economy where 1st hook for killer means AT LEAST 2 gen off, if not 3... get real.
Every Killer? Dude, I play low mobility/low tier killers most of the time. Doc, Myers, Pig, Trapper, all of these killers do fine relatively. Simply slap on an exhaustion perk like fearmonger or blood echo and most of your troubles are fixed.
Wesker, Nurse, Bubba, Billy, Spirit, Hag, Oni(who actually benefits from MFT), Singularity, Skull Merchant, Knight, Pinhead, Twins, Blight, Deathslinger, Demogorgon, Plague, Legion, Clown, Huntress, Wraith, Freddy and depending on accuracy, Trickster all do not need to tunnel.
Prove thyself doesnt really speed up the game(its more efficient to do solo gens), BNP barely speeds up the game overall unless its a SWF.
"we are in an economy where 1st hook for killer means AT LEAST 2 gen off, if not 3... get real."
This has always been the economy. Your first hook is the hardest one to get in general. The average killer would get the most hooks between 3 and 1 gens remaining(about 6 on average, plenty to have everyone hooked once, 1 person dead and someone else dead on hook).
This is due to generally, the less gens remaining, the easier it is to patrol and keep survivors injured. If you demand more than 1 hook before 2 gens are done being the economy, with the 6 hooks on average in the final 3 gens, that means you can easily kill 2 people with relatively little effort before the exit gates are even powered. And while that on paper is balanced, its not really rewarding either for killer while really punishing for no reason towards survivors.
Get real. A 4 man escape should always remain possible. You "needing" to tunnel is basically you relying on old meta perks and assume they have the same impact. The meta has changed. Survivors cannot heal easily, so they rather remain injured. Since they rather remain injured, they will use perks that are good while injured. It's extremely beneficial to use something like Fearmonger(which is a free perk) to shut down MFT early. Add Sloppy on top to prevent heals and voila, MFT is no longer a real issue.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The chase aspect on both sides for me I find very fun. On survivor side I just like the final girl aspect trying to save your teammates getting out yourself and whoever else you can. On killer side I only play Dredge and Myers so the jump-scares are what I find most fun. I wish we had more actual final girls. Laurie Is one of the best, but we have so many others. I’ll post a few I would love to see In dbd.
Sienna Shaw Terrifier
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CYCX4GX9DCPG/e89ea241-efaf-459b-85fb-4b92c43cf578.jpeg
Sidney Prescott and Gale Weathers Scream
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F0ZOB6CPO9AQ/b0794927-24a4-453c-84b6-05e76238b014.jpeg
Buffy Summers Buffy The Vampire Slayer
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/153F3ITHDR4U/cc959d0e-53d3-4456-97ec-f18474dc7eef.gif
Nancy Thompson A Nightmare On Elm Street
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KARVFA96EH74/f63c05fd-d7ec-4536-a076-543e7142ddab.jpeg
Allyson Nelson Halloween
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/X508CLOPDNLL/c8b02137-9343-49b2-a8ce-785f17c028fa.jpeg
Personally, I would love to see someone like Ellen Ripley enter the mix. Arguably the most kick-ass final girl in horror.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474018#Comment_3474018
There is a reason that I'm not buffing zombies with this add-on, period: Zombie add-ons are the WORST add-ons in The Nemesis' arsenal and, in my opinion, should mostly be removed.
That said, the reason I made it into the add-on you see here is because it fits in line with the character. Additionally, if you believe that this would make him a better tunneller, you must also have to acknowledge that this would also make him better with map mobility and spreading map pressure around all other Survivors, thus removing the need to tunnel in the first place.
This add-on works best when you are NOT tunneling, after all. You need to hit every Survivor to gain the speed boost and you need to keep that infection going or else you risk losing not only your "tunneling" ability, but the other, better benefits of running this add-on.
So there's more to this add-on than the tunneling aspect. It's the ability to do MORE with Nemesis than that.
Nemesis doesnt have a need to tunnel. Most Nemesis that do tunnel, tunnel for the sake of rushing a kill. Nemesis is powerful enough to not really need any addon. And sure, while initially Nemesis doesnt need to tunnel with this change, here's a simple idea: Corrupt Intervention. Now I have plenty of time to infect survivors and still tunnel.
And while I understand the ability to do more with Nemesis, I personally would love more addons that make the Zombies an actual danger. Something where my actions as Nemesis make the environment overall more dangerous. Having a bigger detection range and faster speed at the same time is something that has massive impact on the playstyle of Nemesis. Zombies can not only hear a survivor on a gen from further away, they will reach that place faster.
Zombies walk at 25% of survivor speeds and can already be annoying to deal with around gens. With Mikhails Eye, it's roughly 34% and they can already harass gens (especially if you have things that draw their attention). With the pink addon not adding 2.5% per stack, but 5% speed per stack (and the vaccines not respawning, FYI, forgot to mention that), you suddenly have Zombies that can walk 45% of survivors running speed. Add Mikhail's Eye on top of that, and you're close to 55%. Double Iridescent addon and everytime a gen gets done, you're looking at 85%. And Zombies can do something survivors cant always do: take the shortest route. Meaning that most likely, 2 survivors would have to run away from zombies for 60 seconds if stacked. You could even up the number to 10% per stack and you'd have zombies run for 110% movementspeed for 60 seconds if you have a double addon(meaning survivors basically HAVE to drop pallets not to get hit, which is easy to clean up).
And yeah, Zombies can be a bit of a reliability, but the zombie addons do make them less of a reliability. There should be addons that make his gameplay mostly around powering up his zombies, just as there should be addons where you can basically ignore the zombies.
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When I play killer, I like to confuse survivors as much as I can using what I know I can do. Either that, or make them think they are safe and have the upperhand when I actually have a trapcard (like fully triggering Pentimento while not running Plaything, gets them almost everytime, or I've managed to hook 2 people and down a 3rd when having 2 stacks of Devour)
As a survivor, I like to confuse killers as much as I can using what I know I can do. Or I play extremely casual most of the game untill I am dead on hook and suddenly take them for an unexpected ride. Before I would be the most predictable survivor ever, at the end I suddenly hide/crouch between environmental things without the killer seeing me do it and then I run away with them being confused. Not as effective as my killer trap cards, but effective enough to buy enough time to let the final generator be finished.
Right now, I kinda dislike that the rift between killers seems to be growing again, while 1 year ago the gap was significantly smaller. I dont really know what caused the shift in that. Maybe its perks affecting killers with different amounts of impact, maybe its maps having been rebalanced a little bit. But right now its either high mobility killers who love to tunnel(which isnt fun), 3-gen maniacs (hag, skull merchant and knight), or high mobility killers that are stacking so many slowdown perks that it doesnt even matter if they camp or tunnel(and some of them still do).
And while survivors have access to a lot more info than 1 year ago, there almost feels like communication between survivors is a requirement if you want to do well. I know there are some things in the works, but the fact that a hooked survivor can still not effectively communicate that they are being camped to teammates or what general area they are if they are being tunneled is pretty much crucial these days.
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"the Onryo's most powerful, and most enjoyable, playstyle - using her power effectively to reach max condemn stacks and mori the survivors"
This basically tells me you're trolling here, because its not her most powerful playstyle (its only usable against solo survs), and as for enjoyable, I mean, if it relies on solo survs to work, there isnt really a challenge is there?
Besides, now there is an actual playstyle to force people in condemned that SWF cant counter without screwing solo Q. Is it weaker than the current style? I dont think so. It's very different for sure. Demanifestation is a lot more powerful now than it was before and is definitely nice to use.
She definitely needs some slight tweaks in addons and timings, but that's pretty much it. If a killer is heavily reliant on 1 playstyle, then there is a bit of an issue with that killer (either too good at something or too bad at something else). Sadako is on average a stronger killer than she was before.
As for her pallet stuns, thats actually hugely beneficial, the only thing missing IMO is her being able to break pallets while demanifested. Pretty much all killers that have a secondary state in their power(wraith, legion, oni) can interact with dropped pallets and generators, so its odd that Sadako cannot. That to me is the only thing they truly missed with this change.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473871#Comment_3473871
That perk at least has downsides. Which is the main difference between dead hard and the other perks. MFT literally has no downside, it does not counter some toxic killer strategy, nor does it have any requirements. It just HAPPENS, 100% of the time.
While I agree somewhat, personally, I dont mind too much. Resilience makes you vault 9% faster, but you have to be injured to do so. MFT makes you run 3% faster, but you have to be injured to do so. That doesnt seem like a huge downside, but it does mean you're basically choosing to be louder and instadownable.
It's not really like old DH, where using the perk basically grants you another 20-30 seconds of chase, and it barely affects 115% killers(a chase on average lasts 5-10 seconds longer).
The downside is that you have to be injured, and there are plenty of perks that punish survivors for being injured.
Then it also has the downside that it basically cannot be used with most exhaustion perks(except maybe Smash Hit and Dead Hard).
As for your list of killers being affected, Trapper, Sadako, Plague, Trickster and Pig I agree with. The rest, not really and here's why (you can scroll past the list if you dont care about the details):
- Myers is often played by stalking as much as you can, the 3% increased movementspeed barely affects the stalking time and once he reached t3, he'll be able to easily close the gap that the 3% has created with his increased lunge range, not even talking about fully skipping the injured state on most survivors. After hooking people once, they wont heal ofcourse, but Myers has a reduced TR and any negative impact isnt due to MFT, but due to him being in need of a buff in general.
- Hag, if she dedicates to a chase(which is often a bad decision for Hag in the first place), then sure. Other than that? Nah, she teleports faster and lunges further than survivors can run.
- Doctor, I'm a doctor main, and while it is an annoyance, you'd be surprised how little he is affected by it. The biggest reason he SEEMS to be affected by it, is due to event pallets. Because Doctor's biggest weakness is pallets. All you have to do to combat MFT is to use your M2 a little bit less often.
- Huntress never cared for movement speed unless it was an exhaustion speed. Huntress is barely affected by Hope, so I dont see why she would be majorly affected by MFT.
- Freddy, well, you gotta understand DBD mechanics a bit deeper. Basically, debuffs dont take (x+buff)-debuff, but more like (x/debuff+buff/debuff). This isnt accurate, but it does mean that a survivor being 103% being debuffed with 25% doesnt make them 78%, but more like 76.6%. Which means Freddy(just like clown) is barely affected. And that is bloodpool Freddy. Pallet Freddy literally locks survivors in place when they drop a dream pallet and speed doesnt matter. He is affected in the sense that you have to place pools on the exits of a loop, rather than placing them on where a survivor could be in 5 seconds in a loop, but its mildly affected.
- Ghostface, similar reasons to Myers. You either go for instadowns, or he is stealthy enough to bypass most of the gaps in the first place.
- Demo, I mean, his Shred is sliiiightly easier to avoid, that's it.
- Slinger, while for m1 range, he is definitely affected, his m2 range makes up for most of it, especially his synergy with STBFL, the time saved from 2 stacks of STBFL is greater than the gap that 3% could create.
- Trickster, while I did put him in the list above, I am till putting him here. Why? Similar reasons to Slinger. If you've played Trickster a lot, you're used to survivors being significantly faster while you throw blades, the 3% wont matter much, but if you're relatively new or above average, the 3% will matter a lot.
- Nemesis, definitely not an issue. He's one of the best tunnelers in the game, his whip is a little bit easier to avoid, but similar reasons to Wesker and Pinhead, and you agree those are only mildly affected. I would consider Pinhead to be more affected in general, since its easier to break his chains.
- Artist, hard disagree, similar reasons to Huntress. Artist barely cares for Hope, so why MFT?
- Dredge, the dude is 115%, is one of the stealthiest to approach survivors and can surprise them by teleportation. It's only an issue in his early game at best.
- Knight, while his power is not good at injuring the survivors anymore (which, against good survivors it never really was), its still really good at occupying those survivors. Other than that, he tends to camp out in any 3-gen region if things dont go his way.
- Same as Knight, Skull Merchant doesnt really care for speed as she camps out in any 3-gen region.
- Singularity, I would say mildly affected, sure, the distance gained from survivors after you sprout out from them is bigger, but on the other hand, that basekit ability massively closes the gap in the first place. With MFT it just closes the gap slightly less.
Most of the killers that are actually affected by MFT are killers that are either in dire need of a buff/rework in the first place, or are killers who can rely heavily on injured perks in the first place (what will MFT be worth when Thanatophobia is at 100% power most of the match?)
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Problem here is that nemmy is already a 115% killer with quite a decent range who is already quite good at tunnelling, making him faster would make him a better tunneller.
With that in mind, I do think the movementspeed buff could be applied on when nemmy is drawing out his tentacle, OR infected survivors should increase the walking speed of zombies.
Either that, or his iri addon shouldnt be able to down or injure survivors with the tentacle (the 60 second respawn is still really beneficial to nemmy, since it takes time to use, which slows down the game). Slap on STBFL with this addon, and all you have to do is infect 2 people, and you're a tunnelling machine. Remove the ability to down or injure survivors, and Nemmy, while zooming, would need to use his speed to push survivors towards zombies more.
Personally, I would be in favor of this addon making each infected survivor buff zombies(speed, detection range, reduced attack cooldowns)
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@CorvusCorax86 said:
- That's too much of a nerf. Also, survivors would harass this by always being on drones.
- So you would punish the SM as the match goes forward?
- Isn't the range too big? Way bigger than a jungle gym? I wouldn't approach, at all.
- If they are always on drones, they are not on gens. Besides, the fact that SM right now can place a drone as soon as a battery is pulled off has similar vibes as kicking Victor. Kicking Victor should be something survivors want to do, but kicking Victor benefits Twins. Holding Victor hostage on a locker isnt something survivors should want to do, but it is by far the best way of containing Victor. SM has a similar issue, survivors shouldnt want to work on a gen with a drone nearby, but sitting on a gen with an inactive drone is the best way of getting it done. Getting rid of the drone and keeping the battery as long as possible is something that is really beneficial for SM during chase but detrimental to her drones, instead, neither option matters for SM, both are beneficial as destroying the battery through a pallet vault gives her an instant drone to place.
- Its not really a punishment. The drones are meant to be pressure for 4 survivors. Having pressure that is meant for 4 survivors when there are only 2 left is simply overkill. Is Pig punished the longer a match goes forward because she runs out of beartraps? No, she loses them because it would be an insane amount of pressure once people start dying off. I'd call it more of an oversight.
- I wont consider it too big, right now it's already the size of an average jungle gym. But right now, one of the issues for survivors is not the detection range, but the distance between 2 drones, especially on smaller maps. Besides that, it also has the benefit that Skull Merchant will have more pressure on bigger maps too. Survivors not wanting to approach that area would be the exact wanted result on bigger maps, while on smaller maps, deactivating 1 drone would mean reducing a ton of killer pressure at relatively low cost.
Without these changes, 3-gens will be "fixed" to be more managable for survivors, and a lot more killers rely on 3-gens. How will you differentiate between 3-gens that killers like SM and Knight can force vs 3-gens that survivors caused by fixing the wrong gens? Fixing 3-gens to be managable that even SM and Knight will have trouble keeping them forever will mean that a killer like Myers, Trapper and Clown will be entirely non-viable to play. Fixing SM and Knight to reduce their 3-gen capability and instead force them to switch focus based on survivor interaction with the killer ability is a lot more healthy.
In fact, I wouldnt mind if SM bloodlust timers were halved if she chased someone with a battery, to me that makes total sense.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338528#Comment_3338528
I haven't played those Killers
Oh right... thanks
That does happen...
Honestly, while I really hate the overall design behind the killer, Cenobite with the pin addon is honestly one of the best, most fun killers you can play right now to circumvent DH, reduce chase, and not rely on generator slowdown too much.
You dont even need to abuse the chainhunt mechanics too much, nor do you need to rely on tunneling to compensate much either, the fact that 1 survivor has to go to the box while 1 is in chase(without being able to use the most common exhaustion perk) and soon to be hooked leaves realistically only 1 survivor on a gen. For some bonus fun, Chatterers Tooth allows you to consistently find survivors, while also being undetectable and having basically no footsteps. Causing a quick injure, a big enough frame to hit the chain to prevent DH later on and then simply chase that survivor into a deadzone.
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Honestly, throwing a god pallet isnt even always that bad, teammates can finish 3-4 gens if you do it for the right reason. So that's 1 god pallet and 1 hook, with the return of investment on 4 gens. Thats a good trade-off.
What is bad, is throwing a god pallet when others need it a lot more than you do. Like, if you have 0 hooks, while you have 2 teammates who are dead on hook. You just killed a teammate, and saving yourself for 20 extra seconds of chase isnt worth the dead teammate.
As for other irking reasons: killers who tunnel at 4 gens while running 4 gen slowdown perks because "games go too fast otherwise" and then complain that 4 gens are done before he even killed the first person and that survivors only rush.
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@Canas said:
I've been collecting data from several matches since the last patch dropped and noticed an increasingly worrisome trend: matches have become VERY survivor sided. It's borderline impossible to have a normal match as a killer anymore, literally every single survivor group is comparable to a SWF sweat squad and gens pop at rapid speeds. I also see bp incentives for killers seemingly throughout the day, that's how bad things have gotten.
You want some pics? I got pics.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SZMKSTDXCYTL/playtime.png
This is my profile; I currently have over 2600 hours on DbD. I've been playing since 2018, mostly as killer.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4DJLM9XTECBZ/last-18-games.png
This is a compilation of recent matches, 18 of them in total. I've been playing as Knight, Legion and Plague in those games and it's been one loss after another.
Some of these matches even featured players with hacked items (yellow flashlights with instablind capability, being able to blind from behind the killer) which has drastically lowered my enjoyment of the game. It's plain torture, not even camping seems to work against these teams.
Everyone brings Adrenaline and Dead Hard, every single survivor is playing at maximum efficency and chases take so long that half of the survivor objective is done when I finally hook someone. The constant information buffs for survivors have created a gap that's so vast that most killers can't even cross it anymore, it feels completely hopeless.
I urge you to revert these HUD-changes, survivors should NEVER have this much information to begin with. The killer entirely relies on survivors mostly lacking coordination and stumbling around; you've put this important aspect entirely on its head and enabled survivors to make a mockery out of killers. This cannot go on.
Ah yes, increase the gap between solo and swf to make killer easier thanks to exploiting the lack of communication, instead of closing that gap to see where killers lack the most when playing against coordinating survivors.
You do realize that after the meta changes in 6.1, with Thana being the way it was, the average killrate was 3.5? That means that survivors rarely escaped, and when they did, it was most likely hatch.
Yeah, killer meta kinda sucks right now, but survivor meta has sucked too. Just take a break from the role/game untill they change it. I've done it before, heck, I've played killer games for 3 chapters only, I've played survivor games for 3 chapters only, I've left the game for 8 chapters once. Taking a break when you cant handle the current stress around the meta is not something to be ashamed of. You're not unskilled for it, you're not hating the game for it, you're not even lame for doing so.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337657#Comment_3337657
So just Legion and Deathslinger.... 2/30 Killers
Deepwound addons? Who and how many??
And Camping... The game shouldn't rely on Camping in order to deal with stuff
You're forgetting Wesker and Knight.
The addons belong to Trapper, Cenobite and Pig.
As for camping, I didnt mention camping at all. The BT can easily trigger if you see a survivor running for the rescue(or the crows/scratchmarks they leave behind while b-lining to a hooked teammate), then go after that survivor and hit the unhooked survivor ASAP too. Thats not camping, it's not even proxy camping, thats just keeping an eye out.
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@ProGamerMD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337704#Comment_3337704
The CDC data on suicides lumps hanging, asphyxiation, strangulation, and other means of suffocation all together. Firearm is by far the most common. Time to ban the Gunslinger's bullet add-on, I guess. Also need to take a look at all the pills/poison add-ons, as these are very common methods.
Except that these are also some extra statistics:
- you are seeing firearms in movies etc a lot more common, they are considered a normality in most people's life to have seen.
- pills, also a normality, most people will have seen or used pills for medication
- Nooses? most likely to be seen when personally thinking about it or finding someone yourself who did think about it, absolutely not a standard encounter in someone's life.
So that is not just only people dealing with heavy depression, but also a PTSD trigger for the loved ones they left behind.
Context matters.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337703#Comment_3337703
The Survivors making an opportunity for the Killer to Tunnel isnt an exploit, its a mistake with consequences by the Survivors.
Survivors, who have no way of communicating what they want, need or expect from their teammates who unhook them or are nearby without knowing their teammate is coming. Making it an exploit.
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I mean, Twitter has been removed from my life a long time ago due to the rise of toxicity, same for most social media btw. Its not really a good source of deduction.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337709#Comment_3337709
So please BHVR, revert the timer by 10 seconds and add a punishment for multiple gens being worked on. It's a lot more effective in the long run.I want to understand the idea here. BHVR has time punishments for working on the same gen. Would those still exist in this plan? Or are we just counting how many survivors are working on gens regardless of where they are? And how much of a slowdown are we talking?
Yes, all current basekit slowdown remains the same. So 2 people working on the same gen get just the 15% each. But 1 person working on a gen AND 2 people working on a different gen would result in the solo gen being slowed down with 10%(aka, 89 second gen) and the duo would be slowed down with 25% each instead of 15% each(so instead of 47 seconds, it would be 53 seconds, right now, a duo gen takes also 53 seconds). And again, 3 solo gens would take 114 seconds instead of the current 90.
This makes single generator progression in, lets say, a 3-gen scenario easier to deal with when there is most likely already 1 survivor dead, while multiple generators being worked on gets punished.
It is exactly what killers needed, it doesnt make generator slowdown like Thana, Dying Light or Gift of Pain overkill(Gift of Pain is really underappreciated, 16% slowdown on a 90 second gen means 107 seconds for a SOLO generator, on the old times, it was 95 seconds, more than plenty to finish a chase and interrupt the gen from finishing). It pretty much destroys the 1/1/1 strat, even in tournaments(because 90 seconds of chase isnt enough in tournaments to finish a chase, but 114 seconds would be), it reduces the gap between solo and swf, as communication on gen splitting isnt as important anymore and it just fixes so many other minor issues.
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Buffing chase also buffed tunneling. The killers dont actually have a harder time defending gens than before, its just that the 10 second increase gives survivors all the more reasons to split gens in 1/1/1.
Before the generator time increase, the most common generator strategy was 2/1. Then 2/1 and then 3. With 80 seconds gen, this took about 300 seconds assuming survivors werent being tunneled. During a tunnel or a camp, this would be less.
Nowadays, because of the 10 second increase, its 1/1/1 because early game 2/1 isnt really viable anymore, and then 2/1. So while basekit gens are increased, the average time is now 240 seconds, assuming someone is being tunneled, otherwise its about 260.
Personally, I would revert gens back to 80 seconds, and add a 10% slowdown for each extra generator that is being worked on. This makes 2/1 more viable than 1/1/1(2/1 results in 2 gens being finished in 89 seconds, where 1/1/1 results in 3 gens being finished in 100 seconds), as the slowdown is less overall, and results into a time of about 380 seconds, assuming survivors are not being tunneled.
So please BHVR, revert the timer by 10 seconds and add a punishment for multiple gens being worked on. It's a lot more effective in the long run.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333949#Comment_3333949
I was going to leave this alone but since you brought it up......
Hanging oneself is a tactic, but according to this website, https://sprc.org/scope/means-suicide the top 3 are firearms, poisoning, and suffocation. Which across all age groups represent 87-93% of all suicides.
The noose hasn't been culturally relevant for close to a century in the USA.
Ultimately I find it odd that, an object so seldomly used for suicide, to be removed for that reason. Especially from a company based in a country who's government actively brags about the number of assisted suicides performed since legalizing the practice.
"seldom"
its 23%.
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@Emeal said:
No, Killers need to be able to exploit a situation of a unhooked Survivor not taking proper care.
You have DS, to change that. You need to invest a Perk slot for it. If you give base DS for free, Killers cant exploit any situation.
You talk about Killers not fearing DS, now what about Survivors not fearing the Killer? Seems like a bigger issue.
But the problem is that it is an exploit right now. Survivors have no basekit comms, so they cant take "proper care", especially not if a killer decides to tunnel.
Personally, I am also of the opinion to have a basekit DS, but not the whole match. Just the first 2-3 gens to remove the exploitation of no comms. That way, a killer can still take advantage of situations where the unhooked survivor is not taken proper care of, but a survivor would also not be screwed over early game due to a lack of comms. The only other "fair" way is for survivors to be able to revive a tunneled teammate by sacrificing 1 hookstate each, which is busted on a whole other level.
On the other end of the stick, killers need to get a reward for hooking all 4 survivors once before they kill someone. Perhaps the addition/respawning of 1 more gen(but spawned away as far away as possible from non-finished gens to not make 3-gens easier). So that the killer has reasons to not tunnel/kill 1 survivor ASAP, but has reasons to search out other survivors.
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Honestly, its a bit of both. I dont feel like you "need" slowdown, nor the "need" to tunnel(which a lot of people do claim), but I do feel like playing killer is somehow a bit worse, even though gens are slower, chase is faster and me barely having played with slowdown before.
Personally, I think its probably because the 10 second increase on gens having taught survivors to finish 1 generator solo at least, where back in the day, players were a lot more likely to sit on the same gens. I'm still of the opinion that 90 second basekit gens shouldnt be a thing. I feel like having slowdown when more than 1 gen is being worked on, similar to the 2 survivors sitting on 1 gen slowing them down.
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@RaSavage42 said:
That was a lot of words... Please try to split up and provide a more readable argument as to why DH is OP
Also if you want to prove your point don't use whataboutism... it makes your whole point crumble
But yes DH is still a problem but we don't have to deal with DH'ing for distance which was one thing players were complaining about... would you like that back???
Honestly, DH isnt that big of an issue. Its in a nice state right now. Deepwounds negating DH is a huge nerf. Slinger, Legion, any killer with Deepwound addons, survivors being hit during the BT duration.