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Predated
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769119#Comment_3769119
4-Man High MMR SWF's (ie, worst case scenario) escape a grand total of 5% more often than Solo Q.
Like you said, 5% is equal enough.
Someone else already commented that near 10% difference, but its also honestly such a simple fix:
Whenever someone is hooked, show all survivor aura's to each other.
When holding any emote button, trigger survivor instinct(aka, killer instinct, but for survivors) onto your teammates locations. So you have a general sense where they are without needing comms.
Those changes alone should drop the difference to 5%, which isnt perfect yet, but acceptable -
@Rick1998 said:
when i play at night the majority of my matches have a map offering . Could we make sacrificial ward only get burned if it activelly counters a map . I hate how most times i do bring a ward it just happens to be against a team who didn't try and send me to erye. Simply making wards only get used if they canvel a map would help alot against this. I am asking for to much just to get a random map and not be sent to the same 5 realms everytime ?
Map offerings arent an issue on their own. The real issue is that survivors could bring 1 map offering and 3 different offerings that could benefit them (currently most toxic combo is Springwood and spawning the basement in killer shack and the hatch in main building). Where killers can only bring 1 offering.
Not only that, but 1 killer map offering has an equal chance against survivors bringing a single map offering. Meaning if they bring 2 map offerings that oppose your map offering, there is a 67% chance one of their maps get picked.
They should change the killer map offering into something similar to a sacrificial ward, or only give killers access to green map offerings and reintroduce yellow map offerings to survivors. -
@Atom7k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765988#Comment_3765988
You could check if discord is running but I doubt they would do something this extreme. Proximity chat was never intended because they feared toxicity amongst survivors.
Well there are still tons of toxic people who then use the after game chat but behaviour pretends toxicity doesn't exist.That is installing malware tho. Cheat clients actively inject scripts and code into the server to bypass things, you dont check if a player has that software running, you check if that software is injecting it.
So no, you cannot ban discord, because guess what? People can just use their phones, or teamspeak, or skype, or use browser based comms. Or people who play on console can have parties where open mic is the default.
You do not neuter SWF in anyway, there are 5 killers who cannot deal with SWF properly (Myers, Pig, Trapper, Freddy and Doctor, Ghostface used to be here too before his buffs, he aint strong but he can manage). Everyone else has basekit mechanics that aid the killer more against swf than solo. Especially newer killers.
If you cant manage a swf, then you "abused" some mechanics that are hypersuccesful against soloq (slugging, tunnelling, proxy camping or just 4 gen slowdown perks) but has basically no effect against SWF.
SWF isnt really much of an issue, some killers just need tiny adjustments to manage (like Doc needs an addon pass and a slightly bigger basekit TR, Myers needs a stalk rework and 2 addons basekit, Trapper needs transparent traps, not dark ones (especially since every floor has been whitened), Pig needs gen slowdown if you are wearing a mask, and Freddy needs teleportation to gens even if they have been finished). But SoloQ, SoloQ cannot handle SM, Unknown, Singu, Knight, Xeno, Twins consistently. And handle doesnt mean win, it means being able to finish 3.5 gens on average. -
@Pulsar said:
Uh, we don't do anything because there isn't an issue?
Even High MMR 4-man SWF's escape less than 50% of the time. Solo Q High MMR is sitting around 43%, which means that there's a 5% difference between the two of them.
In every other bracket, SWF offers no significant advantage.
Therefore, I would say we should not punish people for playing with their friends. We get it, some people can't accept a loss and they have to blame it on something other than the fact that it was their own fault, but jeez.
7% is huge tho, you want less than 5% for it to be considered equal enough and preferably less than 3% difference
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yes, huntress and nurse on comms on Autohaven can catch a survivor quickly due to massive view, then hit him out, then with right positioning find the cage, stay far enough that people think its safe to unhook, then basically instadown again.
It might be a bit longer before 30 seconds, but it definitely happens before the first gens can pop -
@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768850#Comment_3768850
Im not thinking anything, its just strange to me to see double standards once again. Suddendly it becomes an issiue when killers team up.
because 8 survivors fixing 8 gens at the same time is going to be danm impossible, but killers can get a survivor out within 30 seconds of the game.
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@Kable13 said:
i actually think the 'send to cage' is better than a standard hook in a location in my opinion…. as it makes the killer not know where the survivor gets hooked unless he stumbles across him… its literally pyramid cage of torment.. which has always been one of my fave things to do, vs pick up and hook.. more-so because it adds that element of uncertainty and fairness.. that way the killer cant just camp the hook, unless he stumbless across it.. as for the pinch maneuvers… it'd be nice to see a 'dead hard' style skill for the survivors to counter that, but atm, they're still ironing out the kinks… this is more 'open testing' than real. thats why it seems so unbalanced…..
Personally… I'd like to see 2v8 standard, with perks and addons, and all that jazz, instead of how it's currently set up with classes and forced skills. I think that'd be really funBut then slugging shouldnt exist, if a killer leaves a survivor slugged, they should be able to pick themselves back up without unbreakable
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I mean, what?
1 surv is 1 charge per second, so 90 second gen is 90 seconds
2 survs is 1.7 charges per second, so 90 second gen is 52.9 seconds
3 survs is 2.1 charges per second, so a 90 second gen is 42.8 seconds
4 survs is 2.2 charges per second, so a 90 second gen is 40.8 seconds
In the current patch, those are the exact numbers I get when fixing gens, so no clue what you're talking about -
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766179#Comment_3766179
i've used it before on demogorgon for portal ambushing and on knight. i don't think oppression is good enough. it will only become good enough when base regression is increased to like 200% than people might use it.
Baseregression isnt the issue there, oppression is good because it regresses gens like Ruin, where it doesnt count on the max 8 gen regressions.
The main issue IMO, is that it doesnt give you info on which gens are affected. I think if that was part of the perk, it would be SO good. -
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764272#Comment_3764272
Boon is unlimited, item is not, and killers never have any capability to control where survivor dies or chase, survivors have complete control to where items drop
I don't understand why peoples are so bad at comparison
Survivors dont have any capability to control where totems spawn, and killers can snuff the totems the moment they hear any sound.
So yeah, pretty good comparison, especially since items are literally unlimited. Survivors have to pick them up, just like killers have to snuff -
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764143#Comment_3764143
You have a problem with it because it's a killer thing. Survivors get aura reading like this constantly.
lol, when? The only perks even coming close to some killer aura perks are Kindred and Wiretap, both absolutely 100% valid and easy to counter in their own way.
Imagine if a boon got killer aura reveal. Or if a dead survivor means permanent aura reading within 20 meters of where that survivor died. Or everytime a pallet is dropped, the killer aura is revealed within 12 meters of that dropped pallet.
Seriously, survivors do NOT get aura readings the way killers to constantly. And even the aura perks that ACTUALLY do similar things at similar costs (like BBQ and Dark Sense, or Bitter Murmur and Dark Sense) often share that they suck in 90% of the cases. -
@n000b51 said:
Oh please no ! Don't make me more reasons to throw the games…
Perks that need you to stay in the same place to success it since the start (with a very reduced chance to be chased during this time) are the worst & we have all the reasons to hate this concept !
As we can't be aware someone has this perk in his build in the waiting lobby, we can't dodge this cursed lobby while there is still time. I'm convinced this perk shoudn't even exist…So to add more invoc' in the basement ? No way !
Weaving spiders is stronger than you think tho. Every gen gets a BNP for the price of a very tiny time investment and a loss of a permanent healthstate (which, honestly, not too big of a problem).
It has shown to complete gens more consistently than without. And completed gens are better than incomplete gens. -
@oxygen said:
I absolutely don't want a system where people that want to keep their mmr from getting "too high" are encouraged to bleed people out, actually. If someone insists on doing that that they can go for 8hook 0k if they want.
To be fair, that means more people will complain about getting slugged consistently, making it therefor a bigger issue, pressuring BHVR more to do something about it.
It's been an issue ever since the start of the game, but at least at the start of the game, we had instaheals to combat mass slugging. If survivors were carrying medkits, you were definitely not gonna be wanting to slug.
There is no basekit deterrence to slugging. But since sluggers go to higher MMR, you have less people complaining about it, making it seem like less of an issue. -
@Sandt1985 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749630#Comment_3749630
………Did you just suggest that slugged survivors can still do gens??
yea, not at a 100% rate, but one of the main reason killers dont hook, is because slugged survivors are essentially hooked survivors. they cannot pressure the game at all.
Giving slugged survivors a 50% debuff to pressure gens, would give reason for killers to hook. Slugging needs a buff to a point where hooking is more preferable than slugging, and slugging would only be done out of sheer neccesity and slugging survivors next to each other should be detrimental
As for the reason why to pressure gens, well, in a 2v1, self-pickups/still being able to pressure the gen is the only way killers dont slug for 4 minutes to deny hatch. Another option is to open up hatch the moment someone is downed for 10 seconds or more, with the only way the killer can close it is by hooking a survivor or hoping they get picked up. But that is very difficult to code in. -
im hoping for 3 things:
1. better anti tunnel (not buffing basekit BT duration, but remove all detection: sound, scratchmarks, aura's, blood for the same duration. Make the survivor as hard to track as possible)
2. basekit antislug for solo surv (either a self-pickup after 60 seconds of being slugged, tweaking perks like unbreakable ofc, or being able to work on gens/unhook/pick up other downed survivors while downed, but at a )
3. something basekit so the survivors cant linger in exit gates (personally, a personal entity blocker if anyone gets hit based on how long you were camping inside the gate would be nice)
At least then the most boring/arguably toxic basekit mechanics will be bearable at the very least.
Also, the only killers having issues with self-pickups are old killers, pretty much every new killer has a way of dealing with it. -
@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757271#Comment_3757271
second one is never happening stop.
its gonna happen tho
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I can see an invocation removing the most recent hooks on all survivors. But dead is dead
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3755675#Comment_3755675
There's a big difference. Letting survivors escape is a loss for killer whereas bleeding out is a win but doesn't increase MMR.
Bleeding out DOES increase MMR. It shouldnt
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Not giving killers mmr for bleedouts will actually make the game worse for survivors because killers will intentionally slug to keep their mmr low. It's called smurfing.
Like killers already dont do that by going for 8 hooks
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@Royval said:
’still having trouble against nurse’ are you saying it should be easier? do you not know that she’s a killer
ah yes, because being a killer means you shouldnt have reasonable counterplay.
Thats like killers saying "I have troubles against sfw" and replying to that with "are you saying it should be easier? Do you not know that they are survivors?: -
@Neaxolotl said:
Does it matter though, whether she appears earlier or later if she managed to predict where you go, you'll get hit, and if you managed to predict where she go, you will dodge hit
It does matter, because the fact she hasnt appeared yet means you can still do something to avoid getting hit. If she basically blinked on top of you it doesnt really matter cus her increased autoaim does the rest, but in 99% of the cases, she teleports somewhere you could avoid.
It is fixable by leaving a ghost of her the moment she lets go. It doesnt matter for Nurse much, but it does basically give survivors that one small moment to actually react -
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751055#Comment_3751055
Pretty sure BHVR would understand that good killers having lower MMR as a problem, and would just make it so bleeding out counts as kills for MMR
And I hope devs to not do anything stupid like basekit unbreakable, because game just doesn't work with it
They already count it towards mmr.
And its not basekit unbreakable, more like old No Mither. There is a huge difference between a 20 second self-pickup, and a 50-60 second self-pickup. Thats a massive difference.
And yeah, perks like Unbreakable and Boon: Exponential will need adjustments, like needing to charge up tokens for speed based on how long you've been slugged. Unbreakable would be amazing with that rework if it consumed your bleedout timer to speed up self-recovery. Exponential could do something similar, but less draining since its a boon.
And yes, the game does work with that, people would actually have reasons to not slug since 50-60 seconds a survivor can self-pickup. Unbreakable and Exponential are a LOT less powerful because they speed up the bleedout, but they will still be insanely powerful because they can always quickly pick themselves up, forcing the killer to hook (which is a good thing, its a risk/reward for both sides). -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/417348/easy-distortion-fix
Distortion dont need a fix, the aura readings need a nerf, killers have become way too used to use aura readings to find survivors.
I mean, its quite powerful as you can gain stacks any time you hear the TR, even if its a fake one. Making it basically a permanent aura block from the start. On top of that, everytime your aura is blocked, you lose scratchmarks.
Just as a comparison, the actual permanent aura block is Sole Survivor, and that requires teammates to die -
@Laluzi said:
Are we actually complaining about Distortion? Why? It's a pure perk/addon counter. If Distortion is wrecking you, then you're too reliant on your build to locate survivors and need to start employing more game sense.
Like, there's an argument to be made that Distortion is a selfish perk along the lines of Left Behind and Sole Survivor, but that's not a killer concern, that's a teammate concern.
Its more that perk counters to other perks in general are kinda dumb. Almost every somewhat counter has other use. Vigil counters exposed, but it also aids exhaustion and its not good enough at countering exposed nor is exposed common enough to be used consistently.
The problem is that you want people to not have their perks denied entirely. -
@Neaxolotl said:
So by slugging survivors I can intentionally lower my MMR while also killing everyone in the worst imaginable way possible
Do you actually think it is good, I honestly don't think so
Kinda, slugging in general has needed a rework since 2018 when DS Unbreakable became Meta to combat slugging and tunneling. It's been problematic for a significant time.
If slugging would count as a tie, that means it doesnt intentionally lower your MMR, but if its your only means to killing, yeah, it does lower your MMR. And then slugging will become a bigger issue to a larger % of the people, at which point BHVR will be forced to rework it anyway.
The simplest solution is just give survivors any way of picking themselves up if they reached 95% recovery. Be it crawling to gens, be it having to crawl to a dropped pallet, be it having to crawl to another downed survivor and help each other up. Just ANY way. Because then slugging stops having as much pressure as a hook, giving killers more reasons to hook. Right now, the only reason to not slug is that it takes longer to kill and has some risk, but if you have a killer (like Nurse or Blight) who can traverse the map quickly, keep survivors injured and just never hook while slugging, there isnt really any risk. If they pick up a survivor, you just go there and slug them again, then chase the person who picked them up.
There needs to be a basekit solution to slugging (aswell as a better basekit mechanic against tunnelling) for survivors to be in a position that they do not NEED to rely on comms to face a Nurse. -
@apathyinc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749628#Comment_3749628
The devs have never specifically said that bleed outs are considered kills. They have said kills and escapes raise/lower MMR, and have defined kills as sacrifice, mori, times-up, head trap, etc but have never specifically said anything about bleed outs. Look at streamers who habitually bleed out survivors, they play at low MMR and it never appears to go up.
Because a lot of those streamers are already at one of the higher MMR's and due to matchmaking not having enough opponents in their bracket they will face lower mmr. Or those streamers derank on purpose.
Why do I assume this? Because tournament Nurses never hook, and those Nurses are only found at the highest MMR. They got there by slugging their way up. -
@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750971#Comment_3750971
Even if it's not the only reason, it's definitely the main one. Even I, being the nice person I am, feel the need bleedout survivors for several games after an unsuccessful game against SWF. SWFs can make any wholesome player into a toxic one. Although there might be a few killer players who are toxic just because they want to be, most of toxic killers become such once they learn what "playing nice" against SWF usually leads to.
by your logic, the SWF might do it just because a killer player was
toxic to them. So maybe everything did start with killer players after
all?Not quite, SWFs have a huge advantage over killers. They are guaranteed to win against 90% of killers unless they intentionally goof around. It's the power role that has the stronger ability to start being toxic unprovoked, and the true power role in DbD is SWF.
And why did that SWF go there? Probably because they were facing killers like this.
Believe it or not, the first toxic strats came from killers. Every toxic survivor strat is literally a counterplay to a toxic killer strat. Rarely are toxic killer strats a counterplay to toxic survivor strats.
A nurse can turn an entire lobby into toxic players. So that Nurse pissed of a SWF, and then that SWF pissed off the next killer.
If a SWF is toxic, they had a toxic killer before you. And that literally can apply to every other of your arguments:
"After a killer gets destroyed and BM'd by a 4man, they have a high motivation to do something like what happens in the OP."
After survivors get 4 man slugged, they have a high motivation to destroy the next killer and BM him.
The correct response to toxicity is to let it be in that one game. The main source of toxicity is taking it to the next game.
Wait, let me rephrace that: YOU ARE THE MAIN SOURCE OF TOXICITY. Stop letting past games affect your next games. If you cannot let the last game go, go play a single player game. SWF isnt the source, singular killers arent the source, its people like you that are the source."They are guaranteed to win against 90% of killers unless they intentionally goof around. It's the power role that has the stronger ability to start being toxic unprovoked, and the true power role in DbD is SWF."
Nah, a random Nurse is the true power role. besides, they are not able to guarantee wins against 90% of killers. In most cases, those survivors prepared to face a Nurse and were then matched up against a Pig. You cannot blame survivors for being forced to deal with a slugging Nurse and then defeating all others. If 1 killer requires survivors to gear up, then the killers also have to gear up as if they are facing a SWF who gears up against a slugging Nurse, which means solo's have to gear up as if they are facing killers who are gearing up against a SWF who is gearing up against a slugging Nurse. -
@govengoben128 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/419012/so-this-isnt-reportable
you can counter any perks like no mither or boon, unbreakable.
why you dont use it?
Because a basekit mechanic shouldnt only be counterable by perks.
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@mizark3 said:
I don't think most perks should get this, but I would say BBQ might be a decent exception to the rule. BBQ is typically seen as a healthy perk, that encourages hooks, and gives somewhere to go other than proxy camping. Killer Instinct also means that you can't see the character model to cheese tunnel someone out, so you still have to roll the dice when choosing who to go after. It would probably need an extra 2 seconds to account for not only Lethal, but also KI being harder to catch the start and end of.
Yeah, replacing aura's with killer instinct definitely would need some readjusting in most cases. But it would fix the current issue where there is an oversaturation of aura reading capability for killers causing survivors to run 1 single perk to counter all of them.
And either you reduce the saturation of aura reading by switching over to screams (which just gets people to use Calm Spirit if that gets oversaturated) or killer instinct.
Survivors' 1 advantage over the killer is that the killer doesnt know where they are so they can progress gens in the time that a killer is searching. Especially since survivors dont know where every other survivor is.
You could combat that by giving survivors 100% info on where everyone is, by revealing their aura's, then it doesnt really matter because survivors can sit on gens and see if a teammate is going to unhook or not, but that would also mean survivors will always touch gens at any given time. Its basically how gen regression needed an all-round rework, because they added too many ways to regress gens to the point that they needed a limit on how often you can kick a gen. Aura reading perks on the killer's end are close to reaching that point too, especially since every killer now gets some form of info in their basekit (even Wesker, who absolutely does not need it). -
@VomitMommy said:
Who cares about MMR? It's not a reward...
Bleed out should definitely count as kill, so full slugging bleed out killer won't get stuck in low MMR farming babies.
I would do exactly opposite and count it twice to increase their MMR more...
I care about MMR, because the higher your MMR gets as a survivor, the less you can play the game because your slugtime increases.
Besides that, denying MMR for bleed outs doesnt mean they get stuck in low MMR, but it does mean their games will also get super boring as they get good at what they do, but the survivors become less of a challenge. They would be forced to hook to keep enjoying themselves.
Another solution is simply giving survivors the ability to pick themselves up or pressure gens in some way, because rewarding a killer for putting a survivor through the most boring gamemechanic is ridiculous by 2024 standards. Its literally the most outdated mechanic in need of either punishing the killer for slugging too long or reward the survivor for being slugged too long. With hooks respawning, there is literally no excuse to not hook. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748053#Comment_3748053
Fair enough, but don't crawl away from hooks and then complain about being bled out. :)
Thats not logically sound tho, if I can crawl away to a point that you can no longer find me, you made a bad decision and should have hooked me.
I should be rewarded for denying you a sacrifice by suffering for 4 minutes, you shouldnt be rewarded for making a bad decision -
@emetSdidnothingwrong said:
I'm gonna play the devil's advocate here and say this: if you don't like bleeding out (I'm assuming this is mostly because the killer slugs to combat the hatch) then don't crawl away into some far off corner or the basement. Which is more important to you, not bleeding out or the small chance you get that hatch?
Then the killer has even less reasons to hook. Killers need reasons to hook over slugging. Like in 2 v 1's, if the killer wants a 4k, the best scenario is to slug. If they get picked up, you get info, but you get more time to search for the other survivor than hooking, because survivors can reduce the hook sacrifice time from 2 minutes to 20 seconds, while they cant reduce the bleedout timer by any means, nor can they do anything else that would actively create pressure either. Hatch used to be the answer to this scenario.
So either they need to bring back hatch as an actual threat in the 2v1 if more than 1 gen remains, or they need to make slugged survivors be capable of still pressuring gens, even at a reduced rate. -
@apathyinc said:
Bleed outs have never been confirmed by the devs to be considered kills or affect MMR. Everything in the game points towards them not being considered kills. Players can't get an adept, tome, or daily challenges done through bleed outs, and for every bleed out a player does, they get knocked down a rank from the Merciless Killer rating.
except, they have. Exit gate escape increases survivor MMR and decreases killer MMR. Hatch doesnt increase or decrease MMR for either. Anything else increases killer MMR and decreases survivor MMR, because technically speaking, its still a kill. DC's would count as the worst possible outcome for the player DC'ing.
Since you cant get adepts, tomes or dailies, it should logically not count as an MMR increase, but it does. It's why the highest ranking Nurses slug their kills to death as it creates the biggest pressure. If it didnt count for MMR, they should get lowered for every survivor that manages to escape. -
@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745640#Comment_3745640
Nice of you to completely change the subject of the discussion, but my point stands: bleeding out is the killer's reflection of survivors' teabagging, blind and stun spam, saboing and other BM, so it would be unjust to remove one without addressing the other.
Except, tbagging is not BM if it takes away attention from the weak link. If my friend has 50 hours, and I know for a fact you will have at least 900, I am going to tbag to get your attention.
I am going to blind you so you will keep your focus on me.
Stun spam isnt really a BM considering the only stun spam works if you are tunnelling, and I dont even see how saboing could be BM, its literally a mechanic meant to prevent you from using that hook.
While slugging isnt meant to be used to bleed out. The only reason the bleedout timer exists, is so you dont slug people forever. The only reason the bleedout timer is 4 minutes, is because its entirely possible that your team can either pick you up safely or finish gens within those 4 minutes. Anything less, and you would bleed out too fast.
Slugging for the sake of creating the same pressure that a hook does, was never intended. But they couldnt fix it, since hooks would permanently disappear.
Now hooks dont disappear forever anymore, and killers have no reason to keep slugging you for the entire 4 minutes. So survivors should get a slugging buff. Either survivors being able to pick themselves up, crawl significantly faster while being silent or being able to interact with totems and gens (at 50% reduced speed), so that killers HAVE to hook, to get hook levels of pressure. Or make extensive slugging bannable.
Tbagging doesnt create pressure. Blinding doesnt create pressure, stun spamming only happens if your pressure is too high or your game sense is too low and saboing is literally doing what you are supposed to do in that scenario. Slugging for 4 minutes isnt ever needed. -
@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745166#Comment_3745166
So no one ever has to pick anyone up ever again, they can just stay on generators.
I mean, you do realize it would take 30 seconds to recover to the point of needing to help yourself, and then another 20 seconds to pick yourself up. You can literally hook that survivor before you pick up chase again.
Slugging right now is basically the same pressure as hooking, without needing to spend time to hook. Allowing survivors to be able to pick themselves up means that you still have reduced gen pressure from survivors, but you'd have to slug survivors 5 times before they bleed out. OR, you can hook them and force survivors to go unhook them.
Seriously, you get them off the gens by hooking. If you cant be bothered to hook, you deserve the self-pick up. If you for some reason cannot hook (which is quite impossible with 99.9% of the current map layouts), you can come back after 40 seconds and slug them again. For every second that they dont pick themselves up, they waste a chance of another self-pickup later when they might need it.
If you want to get that same pressure, just hook. -
The biggest issue is that there isnt a GOOD anti-tunnel mechanic in the game. The anti-camp is great, better than it should be sometimes, but survivors no longer have the power to punish tunnelling with genrushing because genrushing affected non-tunnellers.
But they buffed chase, which buffed tunnelling. Then they released a ton of killers who are strong chasers, which also means they are strong tunnellers. Buffed and released relatively strong chase related perks while they nerfed most survivor chase related perks, causing tunnelling to be stronger. DS got nerfed, DH got useless (the nerf was needed, but since it only works off hook, I feel like the endurance should work like Mettle of Man, since you can otherwise bypass it by hitting them during the BT window)
And what did we get to reduce tunneling? Basekit BT, which needed to be buffed 5 times before it was in a relatively decent position, and can still be easily bypassed by quite a few killers.
The only solution to tunneling, is to give survivors a 50% haste and a 100% vault speed buff for the next 10 seconds on top of basekit BT, while disabling blood and scratchmarks. Which sounds ridiculous, but if you REALLY need to tunnel someone out, you can go try finding them. If that's too much of a hassle, go find someone else instead. -
@board24jason123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744603#Comment_3744603
so your wanting another nurse like S tier killer who can blink through objects and get free hits and downs?? The thing is we don’t need another nurse like the devs can’t even work on their low tier killers who doesn’t have the same advantage as nurse. Ghostface Onryo or Pig can’t even reach at the high level as nurse
Nurse is legit very close to being in a healthy state. There are some client side issues on survivor side, where Nurse can hit a survivor before the survivor can see she finished her blink. And they should reduce her auto-aim post-blink a little bit (Hag doesnt have it, Nurse literally only has it because its otherwise nearly impossible on consoles), so that survivors have a better shot at dodging.
Other than that, her biggest issues are her addons, her basekit it pretty much fine.
As for Onryo, she had a period where she was definitely more lethal than Nurse. You could legit kill the first survivor with STBFL before the first gen could be done and chase the second survivor who is also close to death at that point. Even a Nurse didnt have that power.
Pig had something similar too, where she could literally do nothing all game, and the only way to counter her was to 99 all 5 gens, get everyone to check all the boxes and hope 3 people got their traps off so the 4th survivor could get hatch, and those were the lucky 7% of games. In most games(50-ish%), at least 2 people had traps they couldnt get rid of, or games where random survivors finished the gen before realizing piggy was bodyblocking a box, ensuring the death of at least 1 survivor(20-ish%), games where all 4 survivors could not get their traps off(3%) and games where 3 survivors couldnt get it off (20-ish%).
Yeah, Nurse has the most powerful gap closer in the game, making her very lethal in chase. But even Nurse was not so lethal as to being able to kill survivors by being AFK. -
@Junylar said:
If survivors have one single perk that turns off half of killer perks, can we have the same for killers? Like a perk that keeps all survivors permanently exhausted or something? Without it being a hex, of course, since Distortion is not a boon either.
You mean like Ultimate Weapon? Or Mindbreaker?
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Easy fix to Distortion: Delete the perk🥰
If we're deleting perks, there are about 20 killer perks and 17 survivor perks I would want to delete. Either because they are busted or because they should be basekit
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@ChaosWam said:
Could just force everyone to die instantly if they don't have a way to pick themselves up.
Or pick themselves up after 20 seconds of being fully recovered. If you cannot pick someone up within 50 seconds, they deserve to pick themselves up.
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@C3Tooth said:
Ultimate weapon
- After care
- Alert
- Any means necessary
- Babysitter
- Better together
- Blastmine's Gen aura
- Blood pact
- Bond
- Boon Circle of healing's injured survivors' aura
- Boon illumination
- Breakdown
- Buckleup
- Chemical trap's Pallet aura
- Clairvoyance
- Dark sense
- Dejavu
- Detective's Hunch
- Empathic Connection
- Empathy
- Fogwise
- Inner focus
- Kindred
- Lucky star
- No one left behind
- Object of obsession
- Open handed
- Plunderer
- Quick gambit
- Red herring
- Repressed Alliance
- Rookie Spirit
- Saboteur
- Still sight
- Troubleshooter
- Visionary
- Wakeup
- Wiretap
- Basekit slugged teammates
- Basekit hooked teammates.
But nah, its only Windows of Opportunity
I mean, Ultimate Weapon is fine now, because its a shorter duration and a limited space. But before its nerf it was far too much yeah. And I thought Boon Illumination bypassed blindness, since its a different type of aura (like pig's boxes)
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@Neaxolotl said:
Killer instinct is basically a pure upgrade over screams or auras though
Depends, the perks I mentioned I think its quite a good change, because I think their aura reveal is too niche to be risked with a block. I think aura perks should be powerful enough that blocking actually makes sense. If its a weak aura perk, it might aswell be killer instinct.
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Yeah, I was kinda hoping the 8.0.1 patch made the insta hook require 2 tokens instead of just 1.
I hope that they will either have fixed tunnelling or nerfed that ability before next year/before they release a perk like that. Bypassing DS, pallets and flashlights is insanely powerful for a 30 second cooldown. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744681#Comment_3744681
I don't think people realize how impactful this change can be in the current survivor meta. The current meta is already hold W until completely zoned. With Iron Will, you remove any audio input the killer had to tell that a survivor was even still at the tile.
wdym? You have footsteps too
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@Jwmj said:
I don't even really consider it tunneling when I kill survivors early on. I'm playing a game to win, just like survivors are playing to win also. I paid for the game the same as everyone else and I'm going to play(and kill early, and whenever possible) the way I want to.
Now that's not to say that I won't have fun and let survivors go occasionally if I'm enjoying messing around with them and I can tell they're being friendly, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm playing to win and improve at the game with the killers I've purchased.
I'm still relatively new to the game with about ~150 hours currently and I've seen nothing on the forums but killers complaining about survivors and survivors complaining about killers. It's absurd almost that survivors expect the killers to not…play the game the same way they're doing it.
I would agree with you back in 2022, when tunnelling would be punished with genrushing and it was the killers job to interfere with gens.
Right now, its quite the opposite, tunnelling does not get punished while the killer still can interfere with gens.
Aka, survivors HAVE to rush gens while they can, because if they dont they literally cannot win. While normally, killers SHOULD have to rush kills to slow down gen progression. THAT is the healthy balance. Killers should be the one in charge to slow down the game, survivors should not be in charge to speed up the game because survivors do not have the power to slow down the game. -
@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739873#Comment_3739873
Ah yes the most fun part of the gameplay loop finding where survivors are by wandering around the map at 4.6m/s. Other than the fact that 9 times out of 10 they have no where near the amount of time to support that kind of playstyle.
It is part of the gameplay loop, because it gives survivor a small moment to breathe to avoid the killer and move pressure around.
A killer being able to beeline to a survivor right after hooking a survivor means that 3 survivors are always busy, be it healing, being hooked, being chased or moving somewhere to avoid being intercepted.
Especially with how popular tunneling is these days, meaning 1 survivor gets killed at 3-4 gens remaining, and then keep the gameplay loop with 3 survivors being always busy means gen progression comes to a full stop.
Thats an issue. I'm genuinely more fine with killer instinct replacing at least half the aura perks. Survivors cannot avoid it, but it also doesnt mean a killer can simply beeline to their location as its not fully accurate. It just gives a general sense. -
See, the difference is, pain res and pop are strong when they are both needed (even after the nerf), but also when they are not needed.
DS, Off The Record and DH are only strong together when they are needed. If they are not needed, 2 of them are going to be wasted slots.
If you want to complain about any combo, its windows of oppertunity and resillience, but that one got nerfed because they removed Spine chill from window vaults. -
Ah yes, because everyone has the ability to suddenly record tons of games. Thing is, it happens more often than it should, and when it happens, its more effective than it should be (no one should be able to succesfully tunnel at 5 gens without survivors being able to do 3 gens).
Tunnelling should be a last ditch effort for killers because they HAVE to kill someone, not because they CAN. Camping isnt too bad anymore, anti-camp is pretty good at even combatting killers like Bubba proxy-camping. -
@Depressedlegion said:
Something I've noticed without slow-down is a good amount of the time gens go pretty fast, hoping they add a secondary objective to slow stuff down.
I honestly have noticed the opposite. The only time I see gens going faster than I can handle, is if people bring 2-3 toolboxes.
Genspeeds arent really an issue for most killers, as you can counter that by pressuring survivors. The only time I see gens pop quickly without toolboxes is if a killer decides to tunnel and not put any pressure on anyone else. -
@dknb said:
he is a killer.
never get justice.you think survivors get justice?