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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2524701#Comment_2524701
It's not hyperbole; as far as I can tell, it's just straight-up false. Unless I am mistaken about something, nothing about the new Interlocking Razors makes it more likely to trigger than the old Interlocking Razors. If anything, it's LESS likely to trigger because in addition to the failed Skill Check, the Suvivor also already needs to be injured.
If a gun is buried underground, never used by anyone, can it still be triggered? No. If a gun is constantly being touched, but has a safety mechanism on it, can it still be triggered? Yes.
Is a gun that can be triggered, more likely to be triggered than a gun that cant be?
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@vacaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2524624#Comment_2524624
Wait what? Why would it only save 16 seconds if they heal themself next to a gen? And 16 is being conservative and the worst case scenario because I'm not counting the idle time the survivor spends trying to find another survivor.
Healing does waste time from gen progression. If you're not close to a gen, you could easily be injured again quite quickly and at best, you've done nothing for 16 seconds except require another hit.
If you remain injured as long as possible, heal next to a gen and then proceed to work on a gen, or heal and go to a gen before the killer finds you again, you gain time, while maxing out the chances of actually finding teammates. If there are 2 teammates, great, you save the medkit for later. If there are less, great, you can heal yourself and gain time. Otherwise, there are quite a lot of ways you end up losing time for your team as a whole.
The only way you could heal yourself anywhere without losing any time, is when the killer is being very inefficient. Self-Care is either a gamechanging perk for survivors or for killers, depending on how the survivors use it. If survivors use it as above, it's a game changer for survivors. If they use it anywhere, it's a game changer for killers unless killers are inefficient.
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Here we see a sour coinflip enjoyer, being sad their coinflip mechanics are getting changed to no longer be coinflips.
As long as his mechanics arent too clunky, nor too detrimental, they should fix his 1v4 to compensate.
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I'd honestly revert the haste boost to the killer being outside the radius tho, or at least disable it in chase. Having the haste boost in chase is insanely powerful, especially in combination with perks like Blood Pact and For The People.
I actually dont mind Sole Survivor right now, it's quite a unique perk. It just should mask your aura rather than not showing it. That way, if a killer looks closely, they could still see where you are.
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@DBDBalanceLUL said:
You guys must be very low MMR survivor mains and I've never cringed so hard in my entire life reading this nonsense. People like you praising these balance decisions will be the reason this game dies. You think nerfing Deathslinger like that is a GREAT decision? The guy wasn't even that good in the first place and that's how he gets treated? A joke. Absolute joke. The only people to defend these changers are low MMR survivor mains who apparently can't achieve skill in anything they do so they have to be hand fed everything in their life. It took a year for the developers to add a few seconds on opening a hatch, a YEAR. The only good thing I see is the fact that multiple survivors can't escape now through hatch which was just stupid a broken in the first place. Plague buffs? Barely anything, you still won't see her because she's awful. At least at higher MMR you won't see her, seeing as she will be destroyed by anyone who is decent and knows how she works, and what to do against her. Lets not even talk about survivor perk buffs and boon totems, as if killers are the one that need another objective and not survivors. I can't wait for VHS to release, that's all I can say. The VHS developers must be rolling on the floor laughing, watching the DBD developers destroy their own game. Survivor mains keep praising this type of balance changes, when there is no killers left to play this imbalanced mess, you can enjoy sitting in a lobby having all that fun.
Oh boohoo, out of 100 changes, 1 didnt go right :( Game is dying, cant get things 100% right.
Seriously dude. We dont know HOW MUCH Deathslinger is changed, and his 1v1 needed a change. It was super boring to face. Same coinflip issues that Spirit has. The 32 meter TR is even indicative of him maybe being turned into a 115% killer, which, honestly, would be fine. As with the changes he's going to be closer to Pyramid Head and Nemesis' power than Huntress anyway.
They are putting in the changes now, and worst case scenario, they buff him within 3 months(which really isnt that long, I havent even seen a Deathslinger the past 3 months).
As for multiple survivors escaping through the hatch, not really a problem as Mori's were a thing, and since Ruin+Undying, any key escape(that wasnt 3 people on 1 gen) has been earned.
You're literally ignoring all the buffs done to terrible perks that needed buffs for literal years. The only questionable buff being BTL, the rest is fine. And Boon totems ARE a survivor objective. Blessing a totem will take as long as cleansing one, if not longer. Removing it will literally take 2 seconds. That's a net gain for killers while also destroying a survivor perk, that might not even be as powerful as you think. Because I am 99% certain that Adrenaline and Hope would become Boon totems, and killers have found ways to deal with those perks for ages, now they simply have the option to permanently remove those perks from the trial.
So be a Sour Sandy and only focus on 1 or 2 aspects of the whole thing. It's by far the best changes made in the game since the EGC. And anything that turns out too negative can easily be reverted/balanced out within 3 months.
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@Veinslay said:
The problem is that a survivor's idea of a fun killer to play against is one that they can run for all five gens with ease. That's ridiculous in a 1v4 game. You're basically asking the killer player to take an auto loss every single game the way that the game mechanics are currently designed. No one is going to keep playing when one and two hook games are the norm at high MMR with the way the developer's design philosophy is moving in regards to killer nerfs.
Nope, that's you being an entitled killer. A fun killer is one where my actions have input on the 1v1, preferably close to equal to the killer. Ofcourse not the effects, but I should be able to bait the killer's ability and dodge it, which is impossible vs Deathslinger. It's the same reason why Spirit wasnt fun to verse.
Heck, even if Deathslinger right now barely got more than 2 kills on average and was weaker than half the killers on the 1v4. Doesnt really excuse his boring 1v1 mechanics.
You can bait a Nurse and use that bait to dodge quite a lot.
So the 1v1 change needed to happen. The only thing I am also hoping in return, is a better 1v4. Like making him 115% killer instead(with a 32 meter TR, that makes sense, having a 32 meter TR on a 110% killer is an extremely weird choice).
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2524562#Comment_2524562
DS doesn't need to be a 115% killer imo. He just needs to keep his quick scoping. The CD on canceling ADS is fine and making his reeling have consistent control for the survivor even if the killer walks backwards would give Deathslinger good counterplay around his gun.
Except that there is no counter to quickscoping. Consistent control for survivors would help out, sure, but that still wouldnt make it feel like you could have done something other than a coinflip. You can dodge a huntress up close, you cant dodge a deathslinger's quickscope within 10 meters.
That's the biggest issue why DS isnt fun to face. It's a coinflip at best, and even then, the coinflip is hugely in his favor. Let alone that it's not really a skillful thing either compared to all other abilities since it's very fast and extremely easy. It doesnt ever feel like a Deathslinger has "earned" the hit. Even if he has to trade in precious time to reel you in.
Now, it will take a tiny amount of time to charge the scope, giving players enough time to actually make a play. Flicking will probably become a lot more useful, as that isnt ever needed now. Arguably not even really affecting the 1v1 potential of Deathslinger, just adding a bit more skill to it.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2524500#Comment_2524500
"10x more likely to be triggered than the current addon"
How? Am I missing something?
It's hyperbolia, it's not 100x better either.
But if I am going add some logic: this addon has actually some reason to be grabbed from the bloodweb and thus has more reason to be selected as a filler addon to use if you dont know what you want to use.
Let alone that the effect applies instantly, where the other effect never really did anything useful at all. Even with Tampered timer, you could miss 40% of your skill checks and still get your trap off. While with the current effect, you would recieve a deepwound when injured. Not only giving you the indication where someone is, but also that they are deepwounded and cannot simply hide. Missing a skillcheck before was at best a small setback, missing a skillcheck with this addon is gamechanging.
Still not great unless there is another addon that actually makes it more likely for survivors to miss skillchecks. Like reverse skillchecks.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2524340#Comment_2524340
I don't think keeping a Killer add-on reliant is a good thing in the same update where they are trying to make Trapper LESS add-on reliant.
Being add-on reliant and add-on dependend are different thing though. Trapper was add-on dependend. You couldnt reliably play Trapper without one of his bag addons. Addon reliant means you simply cannot get the optimal results without using some addons.
Which is fine, you gain more addons than you ever will use anyway. Trapper will arguably still be addon reliant, he just wont be addon dependend.
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@HollowsGrief said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2524433#Comment_2524433
Because the balance lead probably had a game vs a slinger where he got his ass kicked so now he nerfs a killer who is AVERAGE at best. It's not about balance or fairness it's about making a killer he dislikes weak.
I mean, there are plenty of reasons to make these changes. Survivors have consistently called out how boring and unfair the 1v1 has been, which they are correct in. The only reason that made slinger "balanced" was that he had a terrible 1v4.
That's like saying it's fine to be stabbed in the chest during paintball, because at least your opponent couldnt shoot your teammates from afar. It's quite the no brainer to make those changes.
Besides, it's just the PTB. They could still make changes accordingly. Chances are they already have certain changes on the board, but want to see the practical effects first. Worst case scenario, Deathslinger and Spirit recieve some compensation in 3 months. Best case scenario, they arent actually as horribly affected as people think they are and the descriptions sound way more neutering than the actual effects.
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@vacaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2524384#Comment_2524384
Yeah, even a brown medkit saves survivors 16 seconds, the best repair kit saves 8 seconds.
I mean, there are ways around it, a brown medkit only saves survivors 16 seconds if they heal themselves next to a gen, and even then there should be only 1 or 0 survivors, as 3 survivors fix a gen slightly fast enough to be worth double healing that survivor.
Brown and green medkits(base) are fine. Yellow's are okay-ish, a bit too fast for healing teammates but fine for self healing. It's mainly the addons and Purple medkit that are absolutely disgusting when optimized.
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@nicnc82 said:
Yall prove, nothing the devs do will ever be good enough for most killer mains. Scott Jung was so right that killers are the more cry baby side. They made a really good balanced update this time.
Yeah, we all agree that purely from a vanilla POV, as long as 4 survivors are alive, the game is survivor sided, and as soon as 1 survivor is dead, the game quickly becomes killer sided(really, if you get 1 kill early and still have 3 people escaping, you are the reason you lost).
But killer mains take that fact and quickly make themselves the victim of the game. I agree that DS's nerf might be a bit much, but he was super boring to face. Spirit's nerf might have been a bit much, but she was super boring to face. You didnt see Deathslingers and Spirits make the game more fun for survivors who didnt have fun facing them, and now they complain that survivors will be having fun regardless of the fun of killers. If you dont care for the fun of your opponents, why should they ever care about your fun?
If I notice my team is overwhelming the killer, I tend to hold back as a survivor and try to give the killer some fun. If I notice I am overwhelming the survivors as a killer, I tend to hold back, or pick the worst survivor to be my assistent(if they are dead on hook early, for example). Yknow, be a bit laid back and have some fun. I can still decide to destroy the rest of the team. But whenever I face a deathslinger or spirit as a survivor, 99.9% are always the same sweaty type of killers to the point where I dont even give spirit's who wanted to have fun a chance to win because I have to assume they are sweaty.
While they might have overdone it now, they can always make adjustments, it's just the first step of a healthy change.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2524339#Comment_2524339
Survivors don't care if Deathslinger got nerfed. They only care about their fun of running the killer around all game, teabagging at the exit gate, and typing "gg ez" in end game chat.
I mean, ofcourse survivors care about their fun more than the killers fun. If a killer is extremely fun to play as, but really boring to play against, you never see those killers try to make matches more fun either.
No double standards.
Personally, the only other change DS needs with this is becoming a 115% killer.
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@EntitySpawn said:
You mean now we can max lose one survivor instead of all 3? Even after you put them in a 3 gen etc?
No this is a perfect change! Not sure why this took so long...
But let's not be a douche about "killers will still complain lol" like seriously keys was awful, if you couldnt see that I think it says enough about you as a player and what you think is balanced
My biggest counter complaint to these changes, is the fact that killers will still slug for a 4k when there are 2 survivors left. Which has already been one of the cheesiest mechanics in the game that still hasnt been adressed and is even rewarded more heavily now.
Unless one of the Boon totems give survivors the ability to pick themselves up when slugged for prolonged times, but even then, all the killer has to do is destroy that perk once.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2523535#Comment_2523535
You call that a good common? When, literally ever, has anyone failed a jigsaw box skill check? They're default, they're unaffected by skill check perks, and this only works if they're injured. Absolute best case scenario this triggers because they had to get off the box because you were nearby in which case who cares about deep wounds, they're injured near you, whack them.
Still 100x better than the current addon, and 10x more likely to be triggered than the current addon. Let alone that it's no longer a high rarity addon.
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@NekoTorvic said:
So the killer must find them, and after wasting their limited time interacting with them they don't just outright destroy the totem, they just turn it back into a dull totem so survivors can bless it again?
For real a survivor can just endlessly reapply the blessing to the same totem and the killer will have to go and deal with it?
So let's say, the totem grand some effect, a poor Legion is patrolling a 3 gen trying to scrape a kill or something. The boon totem is half a map away, so the Legion will have to slowly walk towards the totem, turn it into a dull totem, a survivor that was hiding behind a small bit of detritus, comes up to it and turns it into a boon totem again, the killer has to do that back and forth over and over again, all the while let's say there's 2 survivors on one gen and 1 on the other, one gen gets completed in around 45 seconds, the other one in 80, while the killer wastes upwards of 15 seconds each time just trying to prevent a perk that could potentially have devastating effects for the killer?
Um, excuse me, what is this? Why doesn't the killer just step on the totem and break it instead of allowing the survivors to rebless them over and over again?
The biggest reason I can think of why the totem becomes dull instead of breaking it, is NOED. The second reason probably so that someone else with a boon totem could activate their power instead.
But who knows, maybe boon totems get 1 blessing charge at best and we know survivors as a team can only have 4 boon totems total, we dont know if boon totems can be reactivated(let alone, that perks like Inner Strength and Counterforce will also counteract the usage of Boons).
Besides, who says that Boon totem effects would be powerful enough to be worth walking over to? Lets say Adrenaline would be a boon totem. Would you really think it's worth it to go out of your way to deactivate it? Or would it just be a nice option for killers to be capable of disabling Adrenaline before it can trigger?
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2523311#Comment_2523311
Maybe playing AS him should be fun.
No?
I mean, both playing as and against a character should be fun. DS was never fun to play against.
Honestly, the only change I am missing, is making him a 115% killer.
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@CakeDuty said:
I mean, he got small compensation. He moves faster while aiming.
Though now he's gonna break the tradition of 4.4 killers having 28m terror radius and 4.6 having the usual 32.
This is arguably one of my biggest questionmarks on Deathslinger. Cus Pyramid Head can damage people through walls, up to 10.5 meters ahead of him. I dont really see a reason to not make Deathslinger a 4.6 killer with these changes. It gives him a better 1v4 which he desperately needs.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2519793#Comment_2519793
Maybe because it was one of the only three killers who were viable against a good squad.
I have played Myers, arguably the worst killer, against plenty of 4 man SWF's. Won the majority of those games before the SBMM changes, havent really been playing Myers since SBMM(focussing on learning killers I barely play, since I now dont have to worry about short matches).
SWF isnt really the issue. Solo surv is. Killers are bad because they have to be balanced around Solo surv too. If something can handle optimal SWF but absolutely demolishes solo, then it would need to be changed to no longer demolish solo, even if that means no longer being able to handle optimal swf.
So maybe buff solo surv, so that killers can be raised, rather than raising killers and making all solo players leave the game forever.
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@vacaman said:
Yep, a dev answered that they added the cooldown to counter the possible genrushing with busted toolboxes. Tankbuilds with medkits will be incredibly strong now though.
Medkits have been the most busted items since the Toolbox changes, I am honestly surprised that you can have a Purple Medkit with Gel Dressings and BTL, and essentially have 9 full heals. Adding Streetwise gives you 12 heals. Currently, you would need streetwise, BTL, Gel Dressings AND Gauze Roll to get even close to 8 full heals.
Healing is by far one of the biggest reasons survivors can get the upperhand on killers, giving Medkits this big of a buff is insane.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2523367#Comment_2523367
If anything he is worse than her in every category now.
He needs to reload after every health state. That reload slows him down for 2 seconds. Meanwhile Huntress has the option to equip Iron Maiden to reload faster AND she can down two survivors and injure one without add-ons if she doesn't miss.
Huntress has a 32m Lullaby, same with Slinger. Slinger used to have an advantage over her by having the element of surprise. You would need to pay attention for Slinger when you don't need to with Huntress.
Slinger has a 20 meter max range on his weapon. Huntress does not and it hits like trucks.
One thing to note though: At 24 meters, Deathslinger's terror radius is already silent enough that he can sneak another 6 meters before you hear it over a generator. I doubt the added 8 meters will also increase it's loudness.
And Huntress has a 40 meter Lullaby.
Guess we have to wait to see his addons to see how much Slinger truly has been damaged, or if he simply became addon reliant(which, isnt a bad thing as long as he has 8 reliable addons to use)
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@Bangarang said:
I can’t believe I might have actually yee’d my last haw. This nerf really doesn’t sit right with me. At all. *cries in cowboy*
I mean, you cant really disagree that the 1v1 against a deathslinger was very boring from a survivor POV. They should have given him something to compensate for his weaker 1v4.
But who knows, maybe the changes are small enough to still pull most things off, just creating a slightly bigger window for survivors to have some counterplay and forcing killers to use their power a bit more wisely without just spamming it to zone for free. Still, weird that he doesnt have something to compensate for his 1v4.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2517974#Comment_2517974
That's not so bad if you're playing a high-mobility killer like Blight, but imagine Trapper or Hag if they have to traverse to the other side of the map to get rid of a Boon totem?
But then it would be gone, forever. Boon Totems are more of an objective that would give killers a reason to not camp and tunnel a survivor.
Personally, I feel like a lot of Boon Totems will be created around the most boring mechanics to face, just as a lot of hexes originally were created against the most boring mechanics to face(genrushes(punishing survivors), object of obsession(punishing survivors), camping(rewarding the killer). The same could be said for boon totems. There arent many vanilla counters against a bubba facecamping without constantly hooktrading, so it could be that one of the Boon totems makes it impossible for the killer to use their power inside a 16 meter radius of a hook. Which isnt game breaking as they could start it outside of that radius, but if the killer wants to use it within 16 meters, they would need to go out of their way to camp like that.
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@steponmeadiris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2518032#Comment_2518032
There are multiple female characters they could have licensed. Of course some of the game developers don't have much of an influence, just doing their job of programming and designing, but someone has to be deciding who they'll license. BHVR could have had more licensed female Killers, but they've chosen not to.
And 9:5 is still an unnecessarily large difference, especially considering they have full control of what their original characters should be.
There really arent that many old school female killers. Let alone that they also tend to base their killers around some real life killers/killer types that have historically been mostly male.
The only possible licensed female killers that come to mind is Pamela Voorhees(who, isnt in the game for the same reason Jason isnt), Samara and The Grudge. But there are many other licensed male killers that havent even been licensed yet, who already outnumber the female licenses, Pennywise, Candyman, Chucky, Art the Clown, Jason Voorhees, Babadook, Slenderman, The Thing.(not counting Predator, FNaF and The Strangers because they have both male and female characters)
Based on that alone, there will always be a huge differential between male and female killers. So then we have a few female-only type killers that still could be added: Bloody Mary, Siren, Banshee, Mermaid, Amazon, Succubus, Medusa, Harpies, Mantis(yes, the insect) and Black Widow(based on the spider, ofc) Not even including the fact that some of these might just be skins(or have already been made a skin). But against that, you have Frankenstein, Dracula, Werewolves(who could be female, but historically have been portrayed male), Bigfoot, Cyclops, Scarecrow, Zombies(not sure if they are going to be added after Nemesis tho) and Mummies.
Adding all those to the list, you would still have a differential of 32 male and 19 female characters. Which, all things considered, isnt actually that big of a gap. Let alone that there would also be a number of killers that will get both, and killers that get none. But it's really hard to create a list of equal male and female killers that are based on existing types of killers(Blight is arguably their only true original killer, and even he is loosely based on Jekyll and Hyde)
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2517974#Comment_2517974
Oh no I'm talking 100% recovery remember its a hex level survivor perk. Now a single survivor not bad but if it effects the whole team. Remember killers have no totem tracking capabilities so its pretty much a shot in the dark when trying to find them.
I'm really curious about the how long it will take a survivor to bless them and a killer to stomp them out.
I mean, the devs removed that for a good reason back in the day, no way they would add back such a mechanic at full strength without having additional requirements.
Besides, we dont know how Boon totems are going to take effect. It might give the killer a notification when activated. It might give a beacon-like vision. Assuming they are going to be simply reverse hexes isnt a healthy assumption. Because even if you remove 4 boons, there would still be 9 perks. Where if you remove 4 hexes, all perks are gone.
So while boon totems can be strong, it doesnt need to be that strong. I actually imagine ######### like Hope and Adrenaline becoming boon totems(Noed wasnt always a hex), while also being an excuse to make some buffs to otherwise terrible perks(aka, flip flop could be 100% it it's a boon instead of a normal perk, stuff like that).
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@steponmeadiris said:
Right now, there are 27 Survivors and 25 Killers.
Out of the Survivors, 13 are male, and 14 are female. Fair enough.
When it comes to the Killers, 16 are male, and only 6 are female. (I'm not counting Demogorgon since it has no gender, neither Legion nor Twins since they are multiple people with a 1:1 gender ratio.)
The last three Killers have been male. Then we got The Twins, technically a duo of both. Before that, we got 5 male Killers (+ the Demogorgon) in a row.
There are nearly 3 times as many male Killers as there are female ones. I'm not saying it needs to be completely even absolutely all the time, but 16:6 is a HUGE difference. Is it really that difficult for a professional game dev team to design a female character without making her a pretty little murder victim? Are all the Killers gonna keep being some tall (usually) white guy with a mediocre power and a boring backstory? If I wanted to watch women get brutally killed by men, I'd just turn on the news.
Seriously. If the next chapter turns out to be another male Killer + female Survivor duo, I'm gonna be both disappointed and unsurprised.
Alright, now, deduce the licensed killers, as the devs had no influence there and there have been little to no female characters to license. That removes:
Bubba, Pig, Myers, Ghostface, Freddy, Demo, Pyramid Head, Pinhead and Nemesis.
So, that's only 1 less female killer, and 7 less males. So if we look at OG killers. There are 9 males and 5 females.
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@GannTM said:
Yes Spirit needed a change and I’m not going to act like she didn’t. However, you only take one side into consideration. Iron Will users will be next to impossible to catch because they can hear where you are and you have NO INFO on where they are. Isn’t that the same exact issue survivors had with Spirit?
Congrats Iron Will, you have officially been crowned as my least favorite perk in the whole game. You’re a disgrace to the game and to all perks and I hope you get nerfed to the ground hard. It’s hard for me to actually hate Dead Hard and NOED anymore now.
To survivors, I better never hear “Spirit is OP” or “ Spirit takes no skill” anymore. If you still say that, then I honestly don’t know what to say.
Thing is, grunts of pain allow you to pinpoint the exact location. I am right now assuming that the directional phasing wont be as directional as people think it is. More like, a general 10 degree angle where spirit could be at any time, especially since Spirit still moves at 170% while phasing. You cannot pinpoint her direction quick enough, and even if you do, you wont be able to tell if she's on the opposite side of the wall, or on your side of the wall.
That being said, if I am wrong and you can tell exactly where she is, that would need to be fixed.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
I'm legitimately afraid they will be something like survivors recover from exhausted while running as long as the totem is up.
That isnt bad though, as survivors would need to go out of their way to bless, and once it's gone, they permanently have 3 perks. As long as the recovery rate is less than walking recovery(aka, 25-50% normal recovery rate), it's fine. Really good survivors are already capable of using dead hard twice in 1 chase.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2511197#Comment_2511197
imagine googling what meta means lmaoooooooo.
Med kits are by far the best way to heal, they aren't meta though, despite being "Most effective tactic available"
Keys are also the strongest item in the game, still aren't meta though because they aren't used that often.
BNPs are the fastest way to get generators completed, somehow despite being the most effective thing, still aren't what any player considers meta, because they aren't used enough to be considered meta.
gg, didn't even read your post after the first sentence because it's full of not understanding what meta in dbd actually means going purely by the first sentence.
Didnt even google it, I grew up when meta started becoming a standard gaming term. Imagine using a term entirely wrong just because it fits your bias tho, lmaooooooo.
No, keys are not the strongest item. They are annoying, and in specific scenario's they are completely broken, but if a key was in the average game? Wouldnt make that much of a difference.
Meta in DBD isnt different from meta in any other game. Just because something is popular, doesnt make it meta. Flashlights arent meta because they are the most common item. Heck, BNP is actually avoided because players think it's too good of a meta to be in the average game.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2511219#Comment_2511219
So survivors are not to blame for not using kindred when they need it so much? General non licensed perk that new players can get even more easily. It helps a lot but people still don't use it. Camping is so prevalent but they still don't use it. Before you say we shouldn't need perks to combat x then we shouldn't need ruin and pop either.
Also if survivors go down too fast during chases so gen rush is less effective (in situations where other teammates make mistakes too) you can't say that is not on them.
You can't devoid survivors of any responsibility when they can play more optimal if they wanted to.
"So survivors are not to blame for not using kindred when they need it so much? General non licensed perk that new players can get even more easily. It helps a lot but people still don't use it. Camping is so prevalent but they still don't use it. Before you say we shouldn't need perks to combat x then we shouldn't need ruin and pop either."
You dont need pop or ruin as a killer, tournament play rarely has either and has killers still performing quite well. You do need kindred, solo surv is crippled without it.
"Also if survivors go down too fast during chases so gen rush is less effective (in situations where other teammates make mistakes too) you can't say that is not on them."
Well, if they go down too fast during the chase, camping shouldnt become more effective either. That's on the game. In fact, EVEN if you go down quick, if your teammates have the info that you're being camped, they can still rush gens quick enough.
"You can't devoid survivors of any responsibility when they can play more optimal if they wanted to."
Yes, I can, because survivors cannot communicate, hence they cannot play more optimal. You NEED to know what other survivors do to make the optimal choice. You literally cannot make the optimal decision if you dont know. At best, you can make a guess and hope it's the optimal thing to do. I just got out of a game, the optimal decision for each of the survivors was to finish their gen from their POV. They were all on gens on the opposite side of the match. But I was on my second hook and it would take 40 seconds for the nearest survivor to reach me, so one of them should have come for me, preferably the closest one. After not being unhooked for 40 seconds, the closest one realized the others might be further away, even though they shouldnt be, as the last time he saw them, they were in the middle of the map(they were chased to the outer bounds). I unneccesarily died, due to a lack of communication between survivors. That's devoiding survivors from responsibility, because from their own POV, they all made the optimal choice, but from the team POV, they all made the worst choice possible. My death snowballed a near 0k into a 4k, all due to a lack of communication.
Was my team bad? No, they were not. the killer wasnt even camping. You cannot say "just play more optimal" when the optimal play requires communication.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2511046#Comment_2511046
My pig isn't the problem. She doesn't have to run any of that stuff at all. But sure enough, getting comfortable with that amount of stall shows. In games where you're running around as nemesis, or trapper, or plague (even though her power can cut the average 24 health states needed in half) or Demogorgon, or most of the rest of the M1 only killer roster that can't insta across the map, your time per game goes down SIGNIFICANTLY! I've said for years now, that every killer in this game needs to perform to the level of pigs average game time, with the exception of the zoomy cast. Who for obvious reasons, don't need more
The thing is, with the existence of gen slow down perks in general, its an open letter stating "Yes...we know this is a feature of the game that you would probably want slowed down" Its the same logic they use behind some of these so called pink add ons like pinheads pink, or ruleset no 2. Stuff that ideally should be base kit, but for whatever reason its not base kit, and theres always some convoluted reason tossed up in the air about why it shouldn't be base kit.....when by default the fact that those things even exists prooves that the devs acknowledge that those things would make the killer better, they just choose NOT to have them there to hamstring players. Just like when we asked for a universal fix to totems and what we got was some perks instead. Matter fact that almost seems like their sole agenda when balancing the game.
Instead of taking the time to actually sit down and go over the fundamentals of the game even if it means full on reworks, they skip that, and just throw a bandaid fix on it via a perk. And now we have situations where those same perks are seen as mandatory on Killer AAAND SURVIVOR....
Like its not just killer with the slow down perks, Survivors are running just as many meta/mandatory nonsense as the killers are. DS, mandatory, BT, mandatory. All because the devs refuse to address 2 simple concepts within the games overall view that lead to the behaviors that cause you to even need BT or DS to begin with, which are camping and tunneling. Its inherently flawed. So much so that even little kids who make roblox games and clones of some of their favorite games have systems in place to prevent these things because they are aware that that will happen.
So if little 14 year olds can address camping, tunneling, and whatever else can be found in an asymmetric game, what excuse do studios full of grown adults have?
Well, there have been plenty of players that have proven that killers dont really need too many buffs to reach Pig's average game time. As for making things basekit, there is actually a good reason why some are not. As some killers having essentially 3 addons could very easily overpower them. The only addon on Pig I would consider basekit, it Amanda's letter's aura reading(you're much slower than wraith anyway). Ruleset No 2 can be extremely powerful on some maps, especially considering Tampered Timer still exists. Having Ruleset No 2 basekit, would essentially making the most disgusting addons(Tampered Timer+Crate of Gears) even more disgusting, while only giving players reason to work on gens as long as their traps arent active(and dont tell me that this is some "convoluted reason".
As for addons, well, the way the devs design a power is basically creating a massive board of "what if" scenario's. Then look for things that could combine very well with the basekit power and see what things should remain part of the basekit power and what things should be seperated because they would be too strong if combined with 2 other things. There are a lot of killer addons that might not feel powerful enough, but once you make them basekit and look at what combinations get stronger and how much those combinations affect the gameplay, you'll see the reason why it's turned into an addon instead. There are cases where making an addon basekit is one of the best ways to improve the killer. Take Trapper and Myers for example. Give Trapper the Trapper Bag basekit, and would he truly have a broken combination? No, not really. For Myers, give him Jewellery basekit, and would he truly have a broken combination? Well, technically yes, due to Tombstone Piece, but Tombstone piece is already broken and needs to change even in Myers' current state.
So for Pig, would Ruleset No 2 be too powerful? Even if Tampered Timer would get a nerf? I'd actually be willing to say yes due to map design as Crate of Gears and Bag of Gears slow down searching enough on some maps to still risk getting your head popped without you being able to do anything about it. Especially if Pig hooks you away from the boxes you still need to check. Which is why I'd argue Amanda's letter instead. Worst case scenario, you can combine it with Video Tape and Combat Straps, which isnt really too powerful at all.
As for the excuse they can easily make(and I agree, it's a dumb one): The core code of the game is heavily outdated and gives performance issues with each new chapter. The higher ups do not want to spend time and resources to rework that, as it means less income(and DBD is their only income). The higher ups rather have the devs work on bandaid fixes as it costs less money, even though the game can earn them a lot more money if they reworked the game/create DBD 2 instead. The devs arent the blame on this one. How would you create cilindrical tower if all you recieve is sand? You can spend hours and hours making it as cilindrical as possible, but as soon as a new bag of sand is added, the entire piece falls apart again. Or whenever sand isnt in the right place and you have to place it back, it might drop sand on the other side of the tower that was more important to the structure than the sand you placed back(aka, the pallet blinking fix creating the Freddy dream pallet stun glitch). That is the situation the devs have to work with. That's why the people who create clones are far easier off by fixing things in the game, because their clone has a better core.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2505066#Comment_2505066
And who is to blame for not doing gens? Survivors. Your teammates. I don't need to spoon feed em what needs to be done in situation like that.
Also you make it sound like gens are on another planet and running close to the hook and to some gen takes eternity. If you play a lot you already know where gens spawn even on indoor maps.
Even if kindred was basekit I bet people would still not be on gens. At least unreliable ones.
When I get decent teammates which is more often since sbmm, 2-3 people always escape against killers who camp heavily. I wonder why.
And I didn't said camping at 5 gens is neccessary. Again. Nor it is wise unless no one does gens lol.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2505126#Comment_2505126
Just because you agree with someone it doesn't mean it is a fact.
"And who is to blame for not doing gens? Survivors. Your teammates. I don't need to spoon feed em what needs to be done in situation like that."
Except, maybe some players run BT and are getting closer, maybe those players didnt see each other(why do you think people want kindred to be basekit?). Yknow, something that a ping system would fix.
"Also you make it sound like gens are on another planet and running close to the hook and to some gen takes eternity. If you play a lot you already know where gens spawn even on indoor maps."
Except that the killer could have hooked me on the opposite side of the map. It takes quite a lot of time to run around structures. Long enough to get me killed before the final gen is being worked on.
"Even if kindred was basekit I bet people would still not be on gens. At least unreliable ones."
But that amount would be negligable. At least all survivors would have the same info: 1. hooked survivor is being camped 2. other survivors are not on gens. 3. 1 other survivor is already going for the unhook, meaning they probably have BT.
"When I get decent teammates which is more often since sbmm, 2-3 people always escape against killers who camp heavily. I wonder why."
Just because it happens less often doesnt mean the problem is fixed. The problem is still in the game. Also, kinda useless statement without more detail. Maybe one of them had kindred and was playing together with someone else. Maybe all of them were far away enough that they didnt think they were the nearest survivor and decided to finish their gen instead. Maybe they were all thinking they werent the best survivor to go for the unhook due to lack of BT. Lots of reasons that could seem like the issue is solved, when in reality it was mere coincidence. And 2 people escaping against a camper is a bad thing, that means 3 survivors werent able to do 5 gens in 120 seconds+chase time(which, they should easily be capable of, the fastest possible generator fixing with 3 people is 135 seconds without perks or toolboxes, 122 if they have a key, the average chase time early game is 50 seconds and carrying to a hook is averagely 6-10 seconds). So if 3 people are not escaping against a heavy camper, survivors didnt recieve the info quick enough to combat camping.
So let me be clear:
Genrushing is the best strategy against a heavy camper, if 1-2 gens are at least halfway finished when you're downed by the killer and survivors decide to finish the gen, then find out very quickly you are being camped.
Any other scenario, and camping gets rewarded with more than 1 kill due to a lack of information(especially if that killer runs noed too, as there is no time to do all gens and all totems unless the killer doesnt camp).
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2505394#Comment_2505394
Nothing you've mentioned is a 'meta perk' meta perks are perks that are used often.
Counterforce doesn't do anything you can't really already do with small game.
Soul Guards "anti slugging" ability relies entirely on the killer having an active totem, other than that, it's an incredibly niche perk where I've only seen it work because the survivor has forced it to work (Unbreakable infront of the killer)
Resurgance? lol
and built to last again, not even close to meta, to you it's meta because it trumps franklins but then it's only meta (like soul guard) if the killer is using a specific perk (still not meta anyway) and who actually uses key charges? I don't think I've seen a single person run addons to on keys other than the keep on death / use addons.
none of these perks are even close to being meta and rely on niche circumstances which in my opinion completely void them being 'meta'
"Nothing you've mentioned is a 'meta perk' meta perks are perks that are used often."
Wrong. Meta: Most Effective Tactic Available. Popular perks are not meta perks by definition. In a lot of other games, the most popular build IS the meta build. But that doesnt mean the most popular build is meta by default.
Yes, it does, it speeds up totems. In fact, when there is a hex totem, counter force is the best perk to remove that totem as you can hear hex totems. Next to that, small game doesnt work well when there is more than 1 floor, as it triggers on totems below the floor and above the ceiling too.
Soul Guard literally allows you to be picked up in front of the killer without your recovery bar being reset(aka, slugged again), which is common when a killer is slugging. You dont need an active totem for soul guard to work. It's endurance effect guarantees a pick up, where unbreakable does not. The reason it sucks, is because either a killer isnt slugging, or teammates refuse to pick you up.
Lol is not a counter argument
Built To Last adds 50% extra charges to commodius toolbox, purple medkit, resets keys that can no longer open hatches into keys that can. Also, you're not seeing Blood Amber often anymore, because the devs changed the keys into being unable to open the hatch if it has 0 charges. Since Blood Amber increases charge usage(lowers the key from 30 seconds to 20 seconds), its harder to 99 the charges. If more people were aware of how Built To Lasts works with Blood Amber and keys, you'd be seeing them a lot more often.
Thing is, people in DBD dont really need to care about what perks are meta. They have to care about what vanilla mechanics are meta and counter that. Tunneling is the meta killer tactic, DS, DH and BT counter that. Rushing gens is the meta survivor tactic(rushing gens is not a genrush, btw), so generator slowdown perks are used to counter that.
Essentially, the most popular perks tend to counter the vanilla meta of the opponent, rather than being the actual meta of the player.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2505394#Comment_2505394
I mean, you stretch the term "Meta" a lot. Meta-Perks are those Perks which are run often.
If I look at your list, those Perks were all called good or OP when they came out, but nobody used them a week after the Chapter was released.
Like, Counterforce is nice with the Speed, but unless you run Inner Strength, Dull Totems are not really useful to do (yeah, yeah, NOED; but whatever). And Small Game is better IMO to track Totems, you cannot cleanse Totems if you cannot find them in the first place. When I did my Adept Jill, I had problems to find the initial Totem, lol.
Soul Guard is the best Perk out of those you mentioned, however, it needs the Killer to slug AND a Hex to be active. And it is always better to cleanse Hex-Perks, unless the Killer is running Third Seal against a 4 man SWF. But other than that, always better to cleanse Hex-Perks, especially the most used one, Ruin. It is only really useful in combination with another Perk, Unbreakable, and this is also seen way less often than other Meta-Perks, simply because the slugging-part still needs to be fulfilled.
Resurgence... We Will Make It is better, it does the same, cuts healing time in half, but does this for potentially multiple Heals. And even this is a Perk you almost never see.
Built to last... Again, really specific scenario you are describing. Unless you Dedicate a Build to it, not worth running, but then you are already off-meta.
The last Meta-Perk which got released was MoM and this was OP and a Cashgrab. Other than that, nothing for years.
So I dont think that Boon-Totems will be good. Let alone, we dont know anything yet, except that Survivors have to bless a Totem and Killers can snuff it out. It starts with Blessing already - there is a huge difference between a 5 second animation to bless and a 30 second animation to bless. Also, the Devs will most likely keep in mind that 4 people can run Boon-Totems, so they will not be too strong. If I had to guess, I would say they will be Totems which remove Killer-Debuffs... Like, as long as your Boon-Totem is lit up you dont become Mangled. As an example.
So, yeah, there is currently no indication that they will be good Perks. And given the last Meta-Perk was years ago, I doubt it. (And this does not have anything to do with people not having Perks or not learning to use them... Many players will have all Perks unlocked and you dont really need to learn anything when it comes to Perks, it is not like DBD is a complicated game)
I mean, no. Ironically, YOU are stretching the term meta. Most commonly used perks are not meta perks in DBD. Self-Care is not a meta perk, DH is not THE meta exhaustion perk(I'd still call it meta, I'll explain that a bit later, however, THE meta exhaustion perk is SB, DH is simply easier to use, and thus more popular). Even though Self-Care is the no 1 most used perk, it is not meta. The definition of meta: "most efficient tactic available". Meta itself has been deranged to most popular by a lot of gamers. But just because something is the most popular, doesnt mean it's meta.
Camaraderie is often better than most popular perks. It can add a whole 55% extra time to the second hookstage. Yet it's not commonly used due to people farming(which isnt efficient), people unhooking you whenever they get the chance when the killer is away(also, not efficient, the efficient way is to do gens and unhooking your teammate as close to last second as possible, especially if they are being camped).
So yes, the perks I named were META, because they are the most efficient tactic available when it comes to DBD as a game.
Heck, if I did the definition of meta dirty, it's because I consider the top 3 viable perks for 1 objective the meta perks. Just because a strat is popular, doesnt mean its a meta strat. Anything on Myers that is not Tombstone Piece and J. Myers Memorial is not meta. That is his best addon combination by far. Yet, barely anyone uses that and rather uses Hairbow. Not because it's the most efficient tactic available, but because it's one of the best tactics available that are also fun to use. But if we're talking killers, running Myers isnt even close to meta.
That being said, I wont elaborate too much on the other points, simply as clearing up the definition of meta vs popular would have done enough:
"Counterforce is nice with the Speed, but unless you run Inner Strength, Dull Totems are not really useful to do (yeah, yeah, NOED; but whatever). And Small Game is better IMO to track Totems, you cannot cleanse Totems if you cannot find them in the first place. When I did my Adept Jill, I had problems to find the initial Totem, lol."
Small Game is better if you dont know where to find totems and also want to keep track of them. However, it would still take you quite some time. Counterforce gives you the aura of the furthest totem, which is the one you actually do not want to go for, but just make a mental note of where it is. Besides, there is a thing as sound for burning totems too. If you know general totem spawns, it's quite easy to lap around the map and do totems. But if we're talking the absolute meta slot for totems? That's not even a perk. It's Rainbow Map. But Counterforce is arguably better than Small Game(especially because Small Game works in a cone, meaning you dont know if it's upstairs or downstairs, possibly making you waste a lot of time). I'd personally say Detectives Hunch is THE meta perk for totems tho, it's only downside is teammates not doing gens.(yes, I would have elaborated more, this is the shorter version)
"Soul Guard is the best Perk out of those you mentioned, however, it needs the Killer to slug AND a Hex to be active. And it is always better to cleanse Hex-Perks, unless the Killer is running Third Seal against a 4 man SWF. But other than that, always better to cleanse Hex-Perks, especially the most used one, Ruin. It is only really useful in combination with another Perk, Unbreakable, and this is also seen way less often than other Meta-Perks, simply because the slugging-part still needs to be fulfilled."
It even works without hex tho, not being able to be downed instantly again after pick up is absolutely insane. Also, Third Seal, even against a SWF, needs to be cleansed if all 4 people are affected(Third Seal is weaker against 4 people, but once all aura reading is gone, it's quite strong, especially with perks like Trail of Torment). Ruin, on a 4 man SWF, is actually one of the worst slowdown perks. Besides, we're talking meta anti-slugging perk.
"Resurgence... We Will Make It is better, it does the same, cuts healing time in half, but does this for potentially multiple Heals. And even this is a Perk you almost never see."
We'll Make It is only better if you're being unhooked by someone who runs it. Even then Resurgence cuts the time in half on top of that. As a SWF, you actually would want Resurgence on the main runner and We'll Make It on the designated unhooker. Even if the designated unhooker is being chased, you'd get half the healing time and can gain attention of the killer again. If the designated unhooker unhooks anyone else, it's still half the healing time. The only time it sucks, is when the designated unhooker gets hooked. Resurgence always cuts your time in half, We'll Make It only cuts it in half when the user does the unhooking.
"Built to last... Again, really specific scenario you are describing. Unless you Dedicate a Build to it, not worth running, but then you are already off-meta."
Specific scenario? I mentioned 3
- franklins demise counter
- fully using a key
- making strong items even stronger
Built to Last is better than Streetwise(unless the entire team has items). Built to Last can turn 3.8 quick heals(purple medkit, green addon, yellow addon) into 5.6 heals. On it's own. And Medkits are THE meta item to run(yes, medkits are the best items in the game, better than keys, better than toolboxes, the only thing making toolboxes better to run, is BNP not deleting the toolbox on use). There is no bigger gamechanging item than medkits. The worst thing about it? Medkits have 4 perks that increase the amount of heals out of a single medkit: Built to Last, Self-Care(20% more efficient, but only when healing yourself), Botany Knowledge AND Streetwise(flashlights do have the sport flashlight and low amp filament). The most supported item through perks, is also the best item in the game.
Hence, running any item, Built to Last is THE best item support perk. It's meta, especially on things like purple medkits. It's just not very popular.
"So I dont think that Boon-Totems will be good. Let alone, we dont know anything yet, except that Survivors have to bless a Totem and Killers can snuff it out. It starts with Blessing already - there is a huge difference between a 5 second animation to bless and a 30 second animation to bless. Also, the Devs will most likely keep in mind that 4 people can run Boon-Totems, so they will not be too strong. If I had to guess, I would say they will be Totems which remove Killer-Debuffs... Like, as long as your Boon-Totem is lit up you dont become Mangled. As an example."
First off:
- even if 4 people can run boon perks, doesnt mean they can activate their boon totems unless the game actively spawns new totems when boon perks are used
- it's likely going to be about 14 seconds to bless(the same time to cleanse a totem), with cleansing speed likely affecting blessing speeds, you're still removing a totem from play for killers, afterall.
- even if they remove killer debuffs, that's quite a strong power. Imagine having 4 people injured with Thanatophobia active, aka 100 seconds to do a solo gen, and still doing solo gens in 80 seconds. That's quite nuts.
"So, yeah, there is currently no indication that they will be good Perks. And given the last Meta-Perk was years ago, I doubt it."
Wrong, last meta perk was flashbang. It's quite effective against a lot of killers, better than most flashlights and is fast enough to stun a charging Nurse, who is a meta killer.
"(And this does not have anything to do with people not having Perks or not learning to use them... Many players will have all Perks unlocked and you dont really need to learn anything when it comes to Perks, it is not like DBD is a complicated game)"
Funny, as I just had to teach you why popular perks aren't neccesarily meta, and why other perks are meta even if they arent popular. And there is a lot to learn when it comes to perks. Did you know, for example, that the 25% on streetwise doesnt make a 30 second item last 37,5 seconds(aka, 125%) but a full 40 seconds? This is because it doesnt add 25% of the charges, but lowers the charges per second taken by 25%(basekit is 1 charge per second, meaning normally 30 charges is 30 seconds, but having 0.75 charges per second on 30 charges is 40 seconds). There is a lot you can learn about perks. You dont need to, to use them correctly. But you need to, to use them most efficiently.
There is an optimal window in killer lunge animation where you can trigger dead hard and never be exhausted on the floor, regardless of latency, but this window doesnt really exist in a short lunge animation. There is an optimal angle to still get a flashlight save against a killer, even if they are facing the wall(yes, the only strat to never be blinded is to face a wall with an angle, any straight walls still have flashlight angles).
Some perks take time to properly learn to use.
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@glitchboi said:
Imagine getting Hoarder T3 before Tuesday, and on Tuesday this happens in the 5.2.2 patch:
"We noticed the Cenobite's ability to synchronize with the perk Hoarder quite well, however this was not our intention. We have decided to make a few changes to Hoarder to balance it out.
Hoarder triggers a Loud Noise notification for 4 seconds, whenever a Survivor performs any of the following actions within
32/48/6416/24/32 metres of you:Unlocks a Chest or opens a Supply Case.
Picks up any Item, including Limited Items.
We figured that Hoarder may needed to be toned down because of how powerful it could be to easily track survivors that picked up the Lament Configuration. The Cenobite will still have great synergy with Hoarder, albeit a bit more fairly."
In all honesty? That would be a buff. Currently Hoarder doesnt trigger on Supply Cases(you do get the notification when survivors pick up the vaccin, not when they start opening the supply case). The wiki, for some reason, says it should. But I see no source on where they got that information. I'm actually about to alter that info since it's plainly wrong. Supply Cases fall under the same catagory as Jigsaw Boxes and Pools of Corruption. Those spawn in the same places as chests. Just because they act like chests, doesnt mean they are chests.
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@UnknownKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2505013#Comment_2505013
I would like that shrine I dont use add ons on any killer but i would gladly give those pesky wrealth offerings
Out of my 7 killers I have at P3 all perks right now, I have an average of 1.2 million BP in grey offerings that I am very unlikely to ever use. And even when I do, I get like 10 back for every 1 that I use. That's almost 9 million BP unused, and that's just the addons on my finished killers. If I add in my 3 finished survivors, and killers I am working on, all the grey offerings and grey items that I cannot ever use up, I end up having about 20 million BP.
That's literally enough BP to finish an entire other character as it takes about 21 million BP to go from P0 level 1 to P3 level 50 all perks and all my characters are at least level 40.
That's not even talking about yellow addons I rarely use because there is a green and purple variant too. That's not even talking about yellow, green and purple addons I barely use because they either do not have enough oomph to be worth using in the average match, but good enough to use for some very niche builds(I have 100+ Jewellery on Myers, that's 400k bp on an addon I rarely use, because it's only good for stacking with Jewellery Box. Any other combination, and Jewellery Box is the only addon worth running if you want movement speed while stalking. As for Tacky Earrings, it's grey addon, I've got nearly 240, aka almost 720k BP).
So yeah, a way to recycle the current inventory into BP would be amazing for the grind, even if it's only half the invested BP.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2504766#Comment_2504766
The problem when discussing gens is the fact that Ruin and Pop need to exist in the first place. If gen times weren't as ludicrous we could actually turn those perks into something else. I'm personally tired of running them just to be effective. The problem is, the margin of being effective vs the margin of not using them is so god damn wide it makes them god damn mandatory.....
Here's a secret: I rarely use either of the perks. I just run whatever I feel like running. If I am not certain what to run, I either run, Ruin, Pop or NOED as the 4th perk. If I feel like I am going to face an optimal SWF, I am slapping on NOED, because I refuse running Ruin, Tinkerer and Undying due to it's boringness. Otherwise, I only use Ruin, Pop or NOED if it's preplanned in the build.
There is something called hook pressure, and not enough people are using it. The benefit of downing a survivor on the opposite side of the map, is that to save that survivor, 1 of the other survivors has to run there too. If you come across that survivor on your way back to the gens and push him towards the gen, another survivor has to run to the opposite side again. It's a very powerful form of pressure that is quite rarely used. Almost as powerful as mass slugging in fact.
My biggest question would be, why feel like you're forced to run Ruin or Pop when you have Pig? Pig has built-in slowdown. Heck, I'd suggest you run Trail of Torment, Third Seal, Scourge Hooks and Thanatophobia. Thana and Scourge, especially on Pig, have quite the synergy. You could add in Rusty Attachment if they heal up with a hat on to keep em injured for longer, but I rather suggest Crate and Bag of gears to keep em busy for as long as possible with their party hats without being a dick about it. I used to run it with Sloppy instead of Scourge Hooks, and the only downside was that I had to M1 survivors.(also, Dying Light, Scourge and Thana have nasty synergy together, arguably more disgusting than Ruin, Tinkerer and Undying on some killers)
You'd be surprised how many perks you can use together on certain killers if you decide to ditch the meta build. Pop didnt exist for a long time and Ruin was worse(yes, it was worse, it was only good against bad survivors, the better the survivors, the less effect Ruin had, Old Thana had more effect against good survivors than Old Ruin) yet killers still managed to get an average of 2.7 kills in high tiers.
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@Seanzu said:
Survivors literally haven't had a meta perk since Dead Hard, besides an OP perk Mettle of Man, which was swiftly nerfed.
Survivors don't really get anything strong added to the game so I don't see boons being strong, let alone OP.
Idk, there have been some meta perks that were added, that simply arent used because either the killer meta changed a bit, or because people are too used to the old meta perks.
Counterforce is one of the best perks to get rid of ruin undying(and even noed), its just unused.
Soul Guard is one of the best perks to prevent slugging, it's just unused(it's objectively better than Unbreakable with the killer meta being mainly around Ruin)
Resurgence is one of the best anti tunnel perks if you heal under the hook. BT is only outshining it if you get camped and tunneled, but DS is a better anti-tunnel perk.
Built to Last, THE best perk to run if you have an item. Fully counters Franklins Demise, gives you the ability to fully use up a key and still open a hatch, makes strong items even stronger. Better than Adrenaline at any time of the day.
There are enough new meta perks that can be run, its just that most people have access to old meta perks, dont want to waste BP unlocking the newer perks and dont want to spend time learning how to use the new perks. Why learn how to use 4 new meta perks if there are 7 meta perks you know how to run comfortably? Desperate Measures is overall better than Botany Knowledge unless you're using a medkit(2 stacks are enough that unhooking and healing is faster than unhooking and healing with BK), yet people still use Botany Knowledge because they think it's better, yet you cannot unhook a survivor in the face of a killer and dead hard away with the unhooked survivor tanking the hit with BT unless you run Desperate Measures.
It's why you see veteran survivors run newer perks more than casual survivors. Veteran survivors tend to see the value in newer perks, where casual survivors think the meta perks are the best because everyone runs it.
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@Impose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2505072#Comment_2505072
Except by definition boon totems will be overpowered. Game is survivor sided. Killers are pressed for time. Adding in a perk that gives a survivor extra power that the killer has to use time to get rid of lowers killers already non existent spare time in the game.
You're forgetting the fact that they will also retroactively change perks too. Adrenaline might become preventable because it would be a boon totem. Hope would recieve a minor buff by being a boon totem(instead of 2 minutes, potentially forever).
A lot of current strong perks could recieve a direct nerf by becoming a boon totem. If there is going to be 5 totems total still, and a killer is running Ruin Undying. Then suddenly there can only be 3 adrenaline's at best, rather than 4. That is a direct nerf to survivors.
If there are still 5 totems, and hex totems are applied instantly, that means survivors would be forced to cleanse haunted grounds to be able to activate 1 more boon.
If there are 5 totems, and survivors brought 5 boon totems, yet you're running 3 hexes, that's 3 boon perks that never see the light of day.
If 2 solo survivors decide to run a full boon load out without communication, and one survivor cleansed a dull totem for Inner Strength, that's 4 unusable totems.
So how are boon totems overpowered by definition?
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@EntitySpawn said:
So boon totems, hexs for the survivors... why is this so bad?
1.like hex perks for killer these are usually the strongest perks in the game (although alot of killer ones suck) this is likely to be the same for survivors, does that mean same level as DH and DS? Stronger?
2. Killer has to find these and cleanse them, another objective for the killer and one for them to track. So not only do you have to manage survivors, gens, hooks, pallets and loops but now possible search for a strong perk.
3. Survivors place the boon totem on a dull totem, this means a survivor can place a boon totem in one corner of the map after they do the gen there, this means the killer has no reason to go there and likely not to ever see it.
4. Being that a strong perk can be hidden way out of the way and providing more objectives for killer this will hurt slow mobility killers even more than high mobility.
All of these downsides for killer and I haven't even mentioned theres 4 survivors, these perks will likely counter killer ones or speed up the game even more. Itll be a sad day for killer mains in October
I mean, 1 boon perk might be quite broken, yeah. But you might forget that NOED once wasnt a hex perk. It became a hex perk much later in life. Same would definitely apply to survivors. So a lot of currently strong perks could turn into boon totems instead, giving survivors an extra requirement to activate that perk.
- hexes spawn instantly, survivors need to activate their boon
- 3 things: 1. we dont know how fast cleansing a boon is. 2. killers can remove survivor perks from play. 3. the fact that survivors need to activate their boon means as long as the killer has a faster time of cleansing a boon than it takes for a survivor to set up the boon, it could very much be worth it(they are probably much easier to find than hexes too)
- Also a few things here: 1. there needs to be a dull totem. 2. there might be more dull totems added, making it harder for a hex to spawn close to survivors. 3. they might need to do something specifically to activate the boon totem(like, finish 1 generator to activate Boon: Adrenaline, get chased for 1 full minute to activate Boon:Hope). 4. There are a limited amount of them, meaning if survivors risk not being able to run any perks at all if they face a killer who runs 4 hexes.
- The only hex that will be affected directly, is noed.
Considering all that, Boon totems arent going to be that much of an issue.
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"It doesn't take rocket science to see that killer is camping and go back to do gens (even without kindred) instead of not doing anything behind some rock."
It doesnt take rocket science, you know what it does take?
- time to run to the hook
- time to get closer to the hook to see if the TR sound increases when you go to the hook.
- if there is no sound for a long time(due to undetectable or smaller TR), you need to actually get really close
- walk back all the way to the gen and hope your teammates do the same thing
- If your teammates dont, you have to find them and physically communicate to them to follow you and do gens, otherwise, you'll be soloing gens alone
Thats a lot of things that need to happen, a lot of time wasted that could be spend on a gen, which is why the argument "just do gens" is a ######### one. You cant communicate to your teammates to do the same. Hence, ping system.
"Also I said it is sometimes neccessary not camping at 5 gens neccessary. Making sure camping/tunneling is not seen as something evil in all situations."
It's never neccesary to camp at 5 gens tho. You're not playing in a tournament, you're not facing the top 0.1% of survivors.
"Also even if killer is camping at 5 gens 3 people can escape easily by doing gens. Just hold m1 and leave. Simple."
See the prior argument.
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I have 3 things that I hope DBD might do(hopefully together):
- a sacrificial shrine to gain back (some) bp from offerings(also would double as a method of getting least wanted addons, right now, unused addons and least wanted addons share the same group)
- turning map offerings grey(reduces the chance of getting hundreds of grey addons and makes green addons slightly more common, so far, green addons are almost as common as purple addons, if not less common, its because of map offerings)
- add in a ping system(to add a vanilla counter to tunneling and camping, and thus on average more BP)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2504740#Comment_2504740
If PGTW does nothing that means Ruin did everything (because it was never cleansed). If Ruin was never cleansed then Undying would've done nothing just like PGTW. At best you'll get some value out of the dull totem aura reading but that's about it.
Also going out of your way to defend a totem often loses you a game more than it wins you a game. Doesn't work well against intelligent opponents.
yeah, thing is, most of your games arent going to be against cooperating survivors, because this game lacks a way to communicate for survivors.
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@Shaped said:
Can we get some paragraphs in there?
Survivors are to blame for not punishing camping imo. They reward it and people will keep playing that way.
Also camping/tunneling is sometimes neccessary and it's not done to provoke others or something like that. I know it can be frustrating tho.
"Survivors are to blame for not punishing camping imo. They reward it and people will keep playing that way."
Impossible to do without a ping system for survivors to tell other survivors they are being facecamped. Camping does not have a vanilla counter that it desperately needs.
"Also camping/tunneling is sometimes neccessary and it's not done to provoke others or something like that. I know it can be frustrating tho."
Only when the game needs an absolute slowdown and perks arent going to give you a quick enough time. Even then, quite a lot of killers are capable of end-game slugging all 4 survivors and abusing any altruism that survivors might have to save their friends.
Saying "tunneling/camping is sometimes neccesary" in response to killers facecamping at 5 gens isnt exaclty an answer.
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@latinfla4 said:
Title
Believe it or not, gens are actually quite balanced. So much so even, that Ruin and Pop would need to be gutted if generator time gets upped by even 5 seconds.
80 seconds on a solo gen takes forever to fix, the solution is not to increase that time, because no one would play survivor if they have to spend 5 minutes just looking at a progress bar to fix 3 gens.
2 people doing gens together is even slower than 2 people doing gens solo at the same time(even with Prove Thyself).
3 people doing gens together is so inefficient, that the time saved between 3 people doing 5 gens together and 2 people doing 5 gens together is only a 10 second difference.
4 people doing gens together is even worse than 3 people.
So gens arent the issue here. Nor is it killer ability.
You know what is, tho? Map design. If it takes more than 20 seconds to go from one spot to any other spot on the map as a killer, you have a problem. Because all a survivor has to do is try and lead the killer to that spot and BAM, 3 survivors fix that gen before the killer can even return.
Maps are the things that need balancing here(including spread of objectives, RCPD is actually quite okay to handle if the gens dont spawn on the far-ends of the map, it's an absolute abomination if both gens spawn on the furthest ends of the map). Maps need a killer seed(aka, RNG ranges, lower max distance for "bad" killers, higher min distance for "good" killers, more tiles being Jungle Gyms when facing a Spirit, more tiles being T&L's when facing a Trapper, for example). A Nurse can obliterate survivors on RCPD regardless of gen spawn(if she knows the map layout), a Myers can only handle himself if the gens spawn closer together.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Main problem IMO is how slow the retry chains are (the ones that spawn after the first few break on the environment). They're pretty much a guaranteed miss in 90% of scenarios. I know they made them spawn faster from PTB to live but I feel like that doesn't mean much (and if anything, it hurts them). If they were more consistent he'd be better.
Yeah, the faster spawning didnt really do anything, because the activation time is so long.
it's like buffing old hag by increasing her range, without fixing her delay after teleport. it wouldnt solve her issues
Or like buffing old demogorgon by giving him more portals, even though that wouldnt have solved his issues.
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@Schardon said:
I honestly don't think most of those things really are a problem. Most things you've mentioned are either niche issues or don't really matter in the sense of what SSBM is meant to do.
SSBM is not a rating that is designed to be pushed like other rating systems (LoL for example). It's simply made so players will have a more balanced and fair match experience on average.
- How does this matter? The outcome of both of those blights matches will be, according to your own argument, similar. Even if there is a skill difference it doesn't matter since the outcome is the same. Again - this rating is not meant to be something you chase to improve.. it's just there without being visible to provide more equal match experiences.
- It's a niche problem and a temporary one at that too. Sooner or later they'll have enough experience vs every killer. Otherwise it remains a niche problem since they're not facing that killer often anyways.
- I don't really understand what you're trying to say here tbh. Do you mean "new killer" in the sense of new player or a newly released killer? I assume the latter... While this is probably true, this is an issue of the games balance, not SSBM but yes, this is one reason why this game is not ready for SSBM but then again I prefer that over the clusterfuck of match making that we had until now..
- Yes, map balance sucks but this is pretty much my first and my third point combined.
- This is an issue which is the result of super try harding in a game, which isn't anything bad but other games have similar issues, even League of Legends. There's a meta in every game and the higher you climb the more you'll see the meta being played. To stay with my LoL example - you'll more and more see the same champions and builds, jungle routes, strats, etc. You'll also have waaaaaaay longer queue times. It simply is an issue every game has in some way or another.
I absolutely agree that this system will have its flaws but I want to give it a try. The previous match making was just atrocious. Either you stomp those survivors like they're bots (who're even playing worse than the new tutorial bots) or you get annihilated by super sayajin gods of doom survivors who kamehameha the living hell out of you.
I rarely had really balanced games where I thought to myself "Well, that was really fun and a close call". Sure, there were games like that but not nearly enough.
Well, SBMM isnt exactly working for that, and it's not that niche of a thing, because almost every killer player I have talked to is facing similar issues. There is too many balancing issues to the point where people will play sweaty because they feel the need to do so, meaning most games you'll face are gonna have boring killers with boring builds and solo survivors will at one point stand no chance. Solo survivor is so horrendous that being matched with players of your own skill level is the worst idea ever, as you dont have any form of comms.
- matters, because people can get carried by perks, meaning they never learn skills they would need to learn if it ever gets balanced, at which point you can never actualy balance it, because you would kill a massive part of your playerbase(who got carried by their perks). Let alone that anyone playing against them would be bored out of their minds, because of how boring the effects of meta perks can be(especially on meta killers or SWF)
- but will that process be quick enough to keep people playing, or is it too frustrating, causing players to leave? I still havent faced enough Twins to consistently counterplay her, I havent faced enough Tricksters to consistently counterplay. I havent faced enough Hags to consistently counterplay her(let alone the fact that she has some problematic addons and campy mechanics that need solving too), and I have been playing this game since 2016. Hags are so rare, that I can counterplay them somewhat, but I've faced less than 100 hags in the past 5 years. I've faced thousands of spirits in the past year alone. The system wont really change that. Having a seperate gamemode, where SBMM rules supreme is fine, but there is no more casual now.
- I mean, the last matchmaking was kinda fine, the biggest issue was killers not having seperate matchmaking, but other than that, it had it's issues, but part of those issues did keep the game fun for a lot of people on the long term.
- Thing is, if maps are truly balanced towards survivors having comms and specific killers(aka a ping system and killer mapseeds, P L E A S E), then a lot of meta perks on survivors can get a decent nerf, same for meta killer perks. Right now they cant, because some killers are in absolute need of getting any advantage they can get, while good players on stronger killers take advantage of weaker killers by putting on the perks those killers need to just have a decent match(its why I considered facing old Billy to be boring, they all ran the exact same builds and used the same addons, the only time I had actual fun against old billy was billy's without any addons and slightly off-meta builds as they were actually good at destroying survivors where the others just ran meta with crack addons because it was easy, same issue I have with Blight at the moment, actually).
- Which is why, once again, splitting the queues up in casual and ranked would have been much better. People would expect to tryhard every single match in ranked, and tryhards would occur less often in casual(I mean, there would still be some players tryharding in casual games, but it would be much less often, as competitive people would actually play competitive).
I mean, the previous matchmaking wasnt perfect, but as far as I have noticed, I've had only 1 game I would consider decent. 90% of my killer matches on my main have been sweaty stretched res SWF's running 12 meta perks and coldwind farm maps(which, has by far the worst 2 loops in the game I have encountered yet, Rancid Abbatoir has a practical infinite that only Spirit and Nurse could combat easily, even with increased range addons on Doctor I had issues gaining distance there, there needs to be a breakable door ASAP, then you have those haybales that are the absolute worst loop I have seen in the game, especially since all other loops on Coldwind have been raised or lowered to give both sides near equal mindgameabilites, then you have these wretched haybales with a pallet that is stretched res heaven).
I have refused to play my mains casually ever since, even though those should be the killers I should be able to casually play.
Solo survivor is hell too, as killers start tunneling just out of prevention of sweaty SWF's, forcing people to run DS on every build. I am starting to refuse playing solo survivor too.
So all that's left, is 2-4 man SWF's to play casual at this point.
Right now, it's the worst hell. Map offerings are survivor sided already(1 survivor offering=1 killer offering in this case, any other offering requires at least 3 survivor offerings), then you have SWF's with stretched res. It's basically playing like you are in a tournament, without any of the tournament rules. There is a reason why tournaments ban certain things, because the game is not balanced for tournaments. Yet here we are, having a matchmaking system that kinda enforces that unless you want to throw games.
And sure, I have gathered 3k hours at this point, but I refuse to be placed against tournament level survivors if I am not playing in a tournament, and I refuse to throw hundreds of games in a row just to not have to sweat. I never camped someone to death unless it was a tournament, I was forced to camp 3 people to death just to slow the games down as hex totems spawned in front of survivors 70% of the time. I am not playing in a tournament, and unless certain perks or medkits get disabled at some point, I refuse to play untill it's fixed
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2482468#Comment_2482468
Love seeing creative builds on Otz? Like seeing his 50 win streaks? They will be much, much rarer from now on unless he starts the streak the moment he picks up the killer.
Otz being able to decimate 200 players is the exact reason for SBMMR. That means the game is absurdly screwed on matchmaking. That shouldn't be possible on ANY game.
Love watching some players get very creative with their gameplay? That will become much rarer from now on.
No it won't. If people play sub-optimally, then they're not going to progress in ranks and will be able to play these creative builds. In fact, this will actually make it easier to play sub-optimally because you're not randomly getting an Otz every other game.
Love playing casually yourself? Depending on your skill and how often you play, that will become an issue. Either you get skilled enough where you start facing opponents that force you to run meta perks, or you play once a week or so, at which point SBMM is a godsend since you would no longer face god tier opponents if you have potato teammates.
You don't have to ever run meta perks. You can play however you want and the game will adjust for it. This system actually allows playing sub-optimally to be viable. Before you couldn't because you didn't know if you were getting a Level 20 Brown killer, or a sweet-lord Red Rank 1 killer, from one game to the next.
"Otz being able to decimate 200 players is the exact reason for SBMMR. That means the game is absurdly screwed on matchmaking. That shouldn't be possible on ANY game."
Or, yknow, a seperate matchmaking where SBMM is solely at play? Yknow, giving people who want to play sweaty a place to sweat, and people who want to play casual a place to play casual?
"No it won't. If people play sub-optimally, then they're not going to progress in ranks and will be able to play these creative builds. In fact, this will actually make it easier to play sub-optimally because you're not randomly getting an Otz every other game."
My point is more that the most viewed section of DBD are players with very high skill, who are capable of running very off-meta perks to keep up, that will disappear. People personally using it, was never my argument.
"You don't have to ever run meta perks. You can play however you want and the game will adjust for it. This system actually allows playing sub-optimally to be viable. Before you couldn't because you didn't know if you were getting a Level 20 Brown killer, or a sweet-lord Red Rank 1 killer, from one game to the next."
Right now, as a killer, I would be forced to go full meta just to play. I would need to throw hundreds of games just to get low enough, and once I do, I would be forced to run full meta quite soon, cus I am really good at that killer.
My last 10 games: 2 okay-ish game, 2 solo survivors in those games. 8 games with SWF and stretched res.
So at the cost of my fun, cost of bloodpoints among other things, I would have to throw games permanently with killers im good at. That's boring and not worth playing this game for. Meaning I would be forced to play other killers untill I reach that level and hope they fixed the issues that are going to be part of it.
AKA, the vanilla game isnt balanced enough for SWF against killers, nor is it for killers against solo's to rely on SBMM.
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@C3Tooth said:
- If I have enough skill, have over 60% escape rate without using 4 2nd chance perks. I deserved to face a better opponents.
- If I dont have enough skill, and still have over 60% escape rate because I sweat and using all meta perk. Yes, I deserved to face a better opponents.
I dont see the problems of a game between "a great casual player" vs "a bad but try hard player". You can NOT put either of them vs a bad casual player.
Thing is, the tryhard player would still consistently win games relying on their perks. Once those perks would get balanced, they would stop playing the game.
My point is, this game is not in a state for SBMM yet. A seperate ranked mode would have been better
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@MadLordJack said:
I'm just gonna say two things: First, we know for a fact that they don't just take into account kills and escapes, they said it themselves. Which means you are clearly wrong, be ause you have eliminated everything else. Second, the point of the system isn't to be perfect, but to get sweaty players and new players in their own ecosystems.
I said nothing about kills and escapes alone, i said "same results".
And sure, you'll seperate sweaty players from new players, but you could do that with the old system and be more strict around hours instead. That way, the only slip ups would be players making new accounts, which the new system also doesnt account for.
secondly, you're just gonna give good players all the sweat. I havent been able to play a casual match without facing SWF with stretched res as a killer. For the first time since I came back, I am actually considering quitting this game untill they fix it. Having their core playerbase leave because all they are forced to do is sweat, is deadly to a game.