Boon totems and how this is adding to the problem of Survivors only having 1 objective [PLEASE READ]
Dead By Daylight is a game that features 2 sides that go against each other to achieve opposite objectives.
4 Survivors enter the game with one main focus: Finish enough Generators so that they can power the exit gates, open the exit gates, and escape.
On the opposite end is a lone Killer, whose goal us to hunt and down Survivors before hooking them, and doing so until all Survivors are sacrificed to the Entity.
The problem begins right away with Survivors being 4 people vs Killer only being 1 single person, they have access to 16 perks in total vs. a Killers measly 4 in comparison. All 16 of these perks can be extremely strong and game changing, everyone knows about Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, and many others.
Killer has to juggle 4 Survivors and make sure they are both being pressured/injured/hooked AND make sure they are OFF of Generators. The amount of effort each side has to put in is no contest, Killer has much more on their plate that they have to focus on vs Survivors, and this is massively amplified by both WHICH Killer you are playing and which perks you are using. A Blight running the typical build of Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer is going to have a hilariously easier time compared to Ghostface running weaker perks for the sake of having fun.
The Developers have seemingly noted the idea that Survivors should have objectives besides just Generators, doing a Generator is already relatively boring as is so making it longer would just make Survivor not fun. However, Dull totems are NOT a secondary objective. This is BEGINING to change with perks such as Hex Plaything being added to the game, but besides NOED, there is 0 reason why a Survivor should ever wish to pursue and cleanse Dull totems besides a few extra bloodpoints.
Devs at some point added Doors that Killers could kick down to help deal with very strong loops, but instead created an new secondary objective for Killers to waste their very limited time on instead of... actually making loops less strong for Survivor. You saved Killer time by making them waste time, which is counter productive.
And now we have reached Boon totems, if Boon totems are a Survivor perk mirroring Hex perks where they are very powerful but can be cleansed, this is DEVASTATING for Killer. This means that Survivors can run 4+ very strong Boon perks that IF they are as strong as Hex's, basically demands the Killer abandons defending Generators or hunting and downing Survivors so that they must go and look for MULTIPLE totems, ALONG with having to deal with numerous second chance perks like the ones previously mentioned for Survivor. This is hoping of course that they aren't human and make 0 errors at downing Survivors at loops every single time without error, which also isn't going to be the case.
This is simply not feasible, this is taking a relatively stressful role when Survivors are competent and amplifying it even more by making them waste even MORE time doing things they should not have to be doing. Survivors can afford to hunt for Totems because while 1 or 2 people are looking, the rest are on Generators or potentially being chased. They have the time and the resources to look for them, everyone knows how awful it is to see their Ruin and Undying go within the first 30 seconds of the game.
Boon totems are an INTERESTING idea and I will give them that, but I would NEVER, EVER want to see this implemented into the game until they at least rightfully give Survivors a proper secondary objective like they said they would. Make Survivors be punished by some passive effect the more Dull totems are up, make them find Generator parts, anything really. You can buff SoloQ to compensate by making stuff like half of Kindred base kit so Survivors can at least see their teammates when someone is hooked.
If you want to add new things to the game to make it more interesting, at least do so without wasting even more of the Killers time. This is not fun, it is stressful and feels more like a job. This is supposed to be a game and the goal is to have fun, and this is not very fun.
Comments
Yeah, Survivors need a second objective.
However, Boon Totems could be "All Gens repair themselves at 50% speed until this totem is cleansed" and it could also just as likely be "Survivors aura-reading range is extended by 2 meters until this totem is cleansed."
I imagine they have to be stronger than non Boon perks yes? Dead Hard and Unbreakable aren't Boons, so how does one make a Boon better than them without breaking the game? It is simply not a good idea, at least not yet.
I'm really worried this Boon totem thing is going to be a totem that a survivor lights and the effect is active until the killer cleanses it. If that is actually what they are that is an absolutely terrible idea. The dead last thing killers need right now is an additional time sink in a balance where they are already vastly in the negative when it comes to time. Killers simply already do not have appropriate time for their objective before you even throw in a totem search nonsense. We needed extra objectives on the survivor side to slow them down and instead this would be the complete opposite of that.
We're just speculative at this point but if that is what it turns out to be (and it seems like it is) then I have no clue what they're thinking.
Yup, I'm actually kinda scared of boon totems since we do not know anything yet, but if they are hexes for survivors that makes them stronger, yup bye bye playing killer until properly balanced, I'm down to play survivor only.
In-between SBMM, boon totems, Spirit nerfs, I'm dropping killer. It's not fun anymore and why would I ever choose the role anymore? Survivor is such a fun, relaxing, and hilariously easy role. Just find a generator, hold M1 all game until you get chased off by the killer, insta-drop all pallets while having exhaustion perks carry you.
I'm legitimately afraid they will be something like survivors recover from exhausted while running as long as the totem is up.
Third Seal exists, as does Crowd Control and Blood Favor.
Hex perks don't necessarily equal strong effect.
Have you read developers news? Thrill of the hunt now affects Cleansing and Blessing so we have idea that survivor have to cleanse boon totem to get it's effect
Yes but these perks also aren't very good at all as a result sadly.
Ah yes, killers now need to dedicate one of their precious perk slots to counter boon totems when they already need ruin/undying/pop/corrupt to stand a chance.
Boon totems are a horrible idea all around.
That isnt bad though, as survivors would need to go out of their way to bless, and once it's gone, they permanently have 3 perks. As long as the recovery rate is less than walking recovery(aka, 25-50% normal recovery rate), it's fine. Really good survivors are already capable of using dead hard twice in 1 chase.
I wonder why some people find it so difficult to simply.. wait a few more days before panicking about a change they have next to no information on. Is it exciting to jump to worst case scenarios in your head or something?
This is DBD. Every Patch Killers claim that one Survivor Perk will be OP, and it never was. Survivors did not have good Perks since David was released, this will not change with Boon-Totems.
And even if, they can complain once they are live. But it is just silly to complain about something which is not even released at all.
Why not wait until tuesday to complain about it? If the boon perk is something like "+20% healing speed bonus while the boon is active" this post is going to look like a joke.
Also, how dull totems aren't an objective but breakable walls are? You can still kill survivors without breaking a single wall. That's like saying getting rid of pallets is an objective.
Oh no I'm talking 100% recovery remember its a hex level survivor perk. Now a single survivor not bad but if it effects the whole team. Remember killers have no totem tracking capabilities so its pretty much a shot in the dark when trying to find them.
I'm really curious about the how long it will take a survivor to bless them and a killer to stomp them out.
That's my point.
Whereas you have stuff like NOED, Devour and Ruin which are really good, you also have other stuff that isn't good.
And easy solution would be making repair slower when a dull or hex totem exist in the area.
I mean, try playing Dead Dawg or Groaning Storehouse without breaking those walls.
I believe I remember them saying at one point that you need to be around your boon totem to get the effect of it, but I could also be completely making that up and misremembering. If I'm not, then it would only be game shattering close to the boon.
Yeah, I also think that Ruin should reduce the Killers Movement Speed by 5% as long as it is up.
Why exactly should people run Perks which give them Debuffs?
Dead Dawg you can just get that 3 gen next to the gallows and have an ez game. That part of the map has like 2/3 unsafe pallets and nothing more.
Groaning Storehouse it's actually faster to just vault the window, that breakable wall does nothing.
I said hex or dull not boon ones.Well the thing is that if the scondary objective doesnt affect to gens people xont consider it as secondary
Oh, sorry for that one, I completely misread what you wrote because this Thread is about Boon-Totems.
But regarding cleansing to speed up (or bring to normal) the Repair Speed - IMO this would not really be good. In the end, Totems are also just M1-pressing, but without Skill Checks.
If they ever want to add a second Objective, it should be something like collecting Parts, while reducing the actual time on a Gen (like, you cannot make the Survivors collect Parts and keep Gens at 80 seconds). Because Survivors actually traversing the Map opens options for Killer/Survivor-Interactions.
I mean, the devs removed that for a good reason back in the day, no way they would add back such a mechanic at full strength without having additional requirements.
Besides, we dont know how Boon totems are going to take effect. It might give the killer a notification when activated. It might give a beacon-like vision. Assuming they are going to be simply reverse hexes isnt a healthy assumption. Because even if you remove 4 boons, there would still be 9 perks. Where if you remove 4 hexes, all perks are gone.
So while boon totems can be strong, it doesnt need to be that strong. I actually imagine ######### like Hope and Adrenaline becoming boon totems(Noed wasnt always a hex), while also being an excuse to make some buffs to otherwise terrible perks(aka, flip flop could be 100% it it's a boon instead of a normal perk, stuff like that).
I have a fear that 1 of 2 things will happen. Both are not ideal.
Either way I feel the killer has enough on their plate. Survivor needs more objectives and killer needs less. Killer is already stressed for time that gen slow down perks are damn near mandatory against decent survivors. Not sweat lvl, just decent.
I agree that we don't know the full extent of Boones but I know I don't like the possibility of what they could be and Behaviors track record doesn't make me more confident.
We don't know anything about boon totems yet except they're for the survivor and even if it's strong it won't be a bad thing , they're about to rework alot of killer add ons and I'm sure some buffs will come for certain killers to be able to adjust to whatever it is , it's no coincidence they're reworking that at the same time as boon totems are coming out, I've played clown to rank 1 this season even though I'm a nurse main and I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like I'm the best or I never lost because I got rushed on a few different times but I think that they might be buffing a majority of the killer roster and use boon totems as a reason so survivors don't pull out the pitchforks, you have to give survivors something strong if you ever want to justify buffing killers to the devs that's just the way it's always been.
That's not so bad if you're playing a high-mobility killer like Blight, but imagine Trapper or Hag if they have to traverse to the other side of the map to get rid of a Boon totem?
Killers HAVE to break certain walls to make certain loops actually manageable, I could say "Oh well Survivors don't NEED to drop pallets".
We have enough info to know WHAT they are going to be and how they are going to function, which could of course be changed. IF it is a Hex perk for Survivors, the premise alone is terrible. You could have 19 terrible Boon perks and only the single 1 that is really good and worth running would make the game miserable for Killer.
Well, they don't. It's a tool to help in chase, not a "secondary objective", or is dropping pallets an objective to you?
It's an asset they are obligated to use to their benefit, but is a natural part of the game that flows well and adds to it. Breakable doors were a time wasting Band-Aid solution to terrible loops that let Survivors run circles around Killers for 30+ seconds with no consequence.
Some people can't read. Or i don't know why are you talking like this. I said thrill changes give us idea what boon totems are. And there is nothing scary about them yet. Killers gameplay won't change
Im shocked i have to explain such simple thing
Boon Totems haven't even been released yet... We should at least hold our judgement off of them until we hear about how they function and test it out a bit on PTB.
Along with this, I would like to just point out that while Survivors do have more perks, I'd argue that overall Killer does have stronger and more influential perks (Along with a power and other abilities like faster base movement speed). That isn't to say there isn't a huge disparity between perk strength rn (Because there is, and this is an issue on both sides), but Killers do have some really good stuff available to them, some of which get overlooked a lot.
I also just want to point out that Survivors do have more objectives then just doing gens, in a same manner as Killers having more objectives then just Killing Survivors. Sure, those are the primary goals, but with things like daily challenges, archives, along with the popularity of certain perks (Like Thana and Ruin), they do have more to do then just 'Sit on the gen all game', and Killers do have a lot of opportunities to make and create pressure, along with buy themselves more time. (Again, Survivors do have to do things like bones to counter Hex perks, and healing to counter things like Thana- along with stopping and saving a fellow hooked/downed Survivor.)
Idk man, I'm just saying we shouldn't judge a perk type we know nothing about yet, and I think overall Killers have a lot more power then they tend to give themselves credit for over how the game plays out.
I heavily disagree. The good killer perks? Absolutely. Much better than most good survivor perks and the best killer perks are arguably better than the best survivor perks. But a good 75% of killer perks are absolutely useless. Not bad, useless. Survivors have lots of bad perks, but very few are useless. That is the key difference, imo.
It is just simple math. If a killer runs one or two meme perks, 25% to 50% of the build is compromised. If a survivor runs one or two meme perks, well, you know, the other three probably aren't going to.
And even then, some of the memes survivors have are genuinely effective with coordination and offerings. I once had a group with that Yui perk while running boil over and breakdown with a triple hook distance offering sending me to the swamp with brown cosmetics. That game was agonizing. But I got the annoying Jeff that seemed to be their leader.
Since 4 years, 100% of Perks released were not Meta. Having 20 Boon-Perks and one of them Meta would be an outstanding performance when it comes to Surivvor-Perks - 5% new Perks Meta!... Not gonna happen.
just like how all Hex perks are very good and meta?
just because Boon totems are survivor perks does NOT mean the effects will be strong. at least wait until the effects are revealed before you complain.
I am complaining because it is a terrible concept. If the perks isn't good why bother even adding it, and if it is good that's 4 totems the Killer has to find. It's an awful idea.
Yep its BHVR so Im guessing gamebreaking like old undying or near useless like scourge hook: gift of pain. It will be something dumb like you gain a permanent endurance effect that refreshes when healed while there totem is standing or it will be something like while the killer is breaking a pallet within 16m the aura of the nearest survivor is show.
Pre nerf mom? Deliverence? Soul Guard? Inner Strenght? Counterforce(it is a good perk imo)? Resurgence? Built to last? Desprate measures? Windows Of Oppurtunity? Aftercare?
Just because a perk isnt the best of the best doesnt mean its not a good perk. Like then have killers not had good perks since Plague? No there has been plenty of good perks and fun perks just because they arent the very best perks doesnt mean they arent good perks. A perk can be good without being the best. If anything that a perk has remained the best for several years it shows that it needs a nerf.
The literal last thing killers need right now is ANOTHER objective.
I doubt this will be the case, but I'd be for Boon totems if they act as a double-edged sword. For example, let's say a lit Boon totem allows all survivors to heal at 150%, but if the killer destroys it, then survivors suffer a 10% increase in healing time for the rest of the match, plus maybe 30 seconds where all survivors are exposed.
If it just adds an additional objective for the Killet and the effect oa significant, then it puts pressure in the wrong places.
How often do you see those Perks? Survivors only get "fun" Perks like Head On or Blast Mine, but not really Perks that may become Meta. I guess you can play 100 games and check the Perks of the Survivors. I bet, all of those you mentioned combined will be less than one of the Meta-Perks (lets say Unbreakable, which is probably the least used Meta-Perk).
Yeah that is the Meta so people run it. Like do the exact same with killers. Undying would be the most recent probably and that is now coming up on a year old and imo is pretty overrated. The meta is rarely shifted for either side. I run fun perks because well they are fun most people run perks to win. "Given the oppurtunity players will optimise the fun out of a game". Im not saying you shouldnt use those perks Im just saying it isnt entirely BHVRs fault when people are given the option but choose the old perks. Like R6 added map bans a long requested feature and it has made it a pain in the ass to play any new maps because everyone just sticks to the old perks they are comfortable with. Personally those old perks need nerfs so people will actually consider using the new good perks. Like if UB gets nerfed we would probably see more WGLF or SG. Dead Heard gets nerfed probably SB or Lithe would take its place. DS got nerfed and BT has overtaken it. Iron Will gets nerfed(which should happen imo now spirit is getting nerfed.) suddenly other perks like off the record become used. A lot of the blame for repetive builds falls on BHVR but not all of it. Also it isnt BHVRs fault for not making new best perks because thats how power creep happens its their fault for letting the best perks be the best perks for so long.
I dont get the arguement of its 4 people vs 1.... we know that. Its that for a reason, 3 vs 1 in almost every game. The killer is a stronger, faster entity. Imagine it 4v 4 there would be no game
My hope would be that if a hex totem was cleansed, and then there's a boon totem I place, maybe the killer stomping it out would replace it with one of his cleansed hexes, thus reactivating it :O
It will definitely depend on their implementation. If they are so strong that the killer is pretty much forced to go search the boon totems, than these perks will become a problem. If they aren't strong enough, nobody will run those perks though, because perks like Dead Hard already exist.
I'm curious but also worried. I am still hoping that we will soon see the changes to Moris, which sounds like it could have a second objective for survivors. With insane luck we could even hear about it in the second part of the dev update on monday, but I doubt it. But what I am fearful of is that adding a second objective could easily break the game, as it would require many other balance changes to go along it.
We'll just have to wait and see. Perhaps blessing a totem takes like 30 seconds, that would kind of be a second objective for survivors as well.
On the 4th anniversary it was communicated in a new project like: An Early Game similar to the End Game Collapse, but nothing was known until ... the 5th anniversary, that they said they have eliminated that idea but they have another idea in mind, but. .. the question how long will it take the devs to realize that the game presents big problems in the time of the games?
Problems with the wide variety of maps, the RNG, the size, the distances of the structures among other problems, I hope they will deal with some problems this year.
What I would like to see as a player of 2016, is a new objective for the survivors something at the beginning of the games, it could be great.
It cannot be that for X survivors they are super clear about their objective and focus in a "competitive" way on the generators. Even "casual" players have this objective in mind which makes many of the games boring for the killers, during the last months ... years, I have had games of 4-6 minutes where I have made 2-4 hooks (I consider myself a good killer with 5000 hours.), I have not had time for more, and others will say ... why not tunnel and camp? It is not a game I seek.
whos to say that some of the strong survivor perks wont become boon totems..
i dont recall anyone saying the boons have to be "new"
But then it would be gone, forever. Boon Totems are more of an objective that would give killers a reason to not camp and tunnel a survivor.
Personally, I feel like a lot of Boon Totems will be created around the most boring mechanics to face, just as a lot of hexes originally were created against the most boring mechanics to face(genrushes(punishing survivors), object of obsession(punishing survivors), camping(rewarding the killer). The same could be said for boon totems. There arent many vanilla counters against a bubba facecamping without constantly hooktrading, so it could be that one of the Boon totems makes it impossible for the killer to use their power inside a 16 meter radius of a hook. Which isnt game breaking as they could start it outside of that radius, but if the killer wants to use it within 16 meters, they would need to go out of their way to camp like that.