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Predated
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@Yatol said:
- this is not a problem and can easily be used against rank based matchmaking
- not a problem, can easily be used against rank based matchmaking
- can easily be applied to rank based matchmaking, blame game balance
- can easily be applied to rank based matchmaking, blame game balance
- can easily be applied to rank based matchmaking (4.1% of steam killers and 6.1% of steam survivors)
That has been pretty much part of all my points, this game isnt ready for an SBMM yet. Why else did I ask "how is SBMM in any way, shape or form good enough to benefit the playerbase at large?"
Once maps, items, addons, perk combinations(I dont think any perk other than NOED and maybe Adrenaline on it's own are problematic, but combinations and some synergies are too unbalanced to deduce any skill), powers and the gap between solo survivor and SWF is more balanced, all my points will disappear.
The game isnt ready yet for a strict SBMM as the better you get, the less you want to play the game unless you love playing meta every game. Which isnt what SBMM should be about. SBMM should be about being matched with people who have equal skill. Being able to be carried by perks, maps or addons is kinda the issue there.
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@Munqaxus said:
@Devil_hit11 is hands down the winner of this argument.
how so? where did he win? The only way you could consider his argument to have "won" is ignoring people who have 1k+ hours.
Love seeing creative builds on Otz? Like seeing his 50 win streaks? They will be much, much rarer from now on unless he starts the streak the moment he picks up the killer.
Love watching some players get very creative with their gameplay? That will become much rarer from now on.
Love playing casually yourself? Depending on your skill and how often you play, that will become an issue. Either you get skilled enough where you start facing opponents that force you to run meta perks, or you play once a week or so, at which point SBMM is a godsend since you would no longer face god tier opponents if you have potato teammates.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
"wrong, blight 1 got carried by perks and addons where blight 2 did not. If blight 1 were running the same build as blight 2, he would have worse statistics."
you have no proof of this. I am fairely certain that there are many good killer players and survivor players that do not run the most perfect cookie cutter stereotypical build and they do better than large percentage of population with their "inferior" build.
"again, irrelevant. The point is if you have only 3-4 maps that a killer does well on, and 14 that it doesnt do well on, that killer is going to be punished if they dont get the maps they need.
That means your bad at killer and you should play at lower MMR until your better at the 14 other maps. this will likely be reflected in your MMR scoring from a loss you incur on these maps.
"Sigh, irrelevant again. The power in SWF is that they can communicate. Needing to cleanse a totem? A SWF can communicate that 1 person is cleansing all the totems, having 1 person check the map for totems. If they have 2 people cleansing totems, they can communicate where they have been. There will always be people available to do gens. In solo's, you can have all 4 people checking the map for totems with no one doing gens. So yes, SWF is "magically better" than solo because of time efficiency without needing any perks at all. A team of potatoes on comms tends to have better results than an average group full of solo players(unless those solo players happen to play with each other a lot, but that would make them closer to an SWF than solo's). So yes, at one point in MMR, all you're going to see is SWF, simply because of communication. Just as an example: For a solo survivor to have the same information of an SWF, they will need Kindred, Buckle Up, Bond, Empathy, Better Together and Windows of Oppertunity as a basekit."
Being SWF does not automatically mean good. There are some games that I suspect that I playing vs SWF but survivor team is playing very poorly, far too altruistic and somewhat poor looping. SWF has potential to be stronger than solo at very very highest level but not everyone will play at that level.
again.
Blight 1 is running meta, Blight 2 isnt. If both were playing the exact same match and had the exact same results. Blight 1 can chain rushes consistently after every hit where blight 2 cant.
The only way you would be fully correct is this scenario: Blight 1 and 2 didnt get to use their addons and perks. Any other scenario, and Blight 2 is at a massive disadvantage compared to Blight 1, and needs more skill to compensate.
"I am fairely certain that there are many good killer players and survivor players that do not run the most perfect cookie cutter stereotypical build and they do better than large percentage of population with their "inferior" build." Agreed, and those players are definitely more skilled as they do not rely on their perks to do good.
"That means your bad at killer and you should play at lower MMR until your better at the 14 other maps. this will likely be reflected in your MMR scoring from a loss you incur on these maps."
No, that's simply false. Map balancing is far from accurate enough to say "you're not skilled enough at this rank" when any other killer you are just as good with does well on those maps. There is a reason why killer tierlists exist, and why half the roster has a consistent B-tier or lower, because b-tier and lower killers start depending on maps too.
You're only correct as of yesterday, because matchmaking was NOT facing survivors of equal skill. Deathslinger and Myers did alright because the survivors they faced were not equally skilled as you.
"Being SWF does not automatically mean good. There are some games that I suspect that I playing vs SWF but survivor team is playing very poorly, far too altruistic and somewhat poor looping."
Did I say good? No, I said EFFICIENT. And being more efficient makes you better by default. But being better doesnt mean you're good.
"SWF has potential to be stronger than solo at very very highest level but not everyone will play at that level."
Oh, why didnt I see that? Oh wait, I DID
- point 3: once survivors are skilled enough, they will never, EVER, play against new killers unless those killers are capable of reaching ungodly high MMR, or unless they play against friends.
- rant after the points I gave: Content creators would need to throw their matches for the sake of keeping content fun to watch without every match feeling like it's a tournament, or give up on the game. Players who have a ton of hours and can "win" consistently without relying on meta perks, will at one point be forced to run meta perks if they want to have any chance at having fun.
- conclusion: I am extremely skeptical of veterans of the game being able to enjoy the game as they currently are without consistantly needing to sweat
All points that are about high MMR.
I agree that for players below 1000 hours, SBMM will be a godsend. But get above 1000 hours, and it has a massive potential to become the most boring, most grindy kind of hell unless you are willing to throw games to prevent entering that hell.
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@darknesamongusteevee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2482182#Comment_2482182
We know killers will be cleansing the blessings, we know the blessings will provide some advantageous effect or otherwise they'd be white noise. What else is necessary to know? An advantageous effect that can be placed in a position of the survivor's choosing, an advantageous effect the killer needs to cleanse to get rid of it, and the killer is only one person who already needs to defend generators.
First:
- hex totems require 0 effort to activate, they are active from the start. Boontotems require time to activate. Ruin is active from the moment the match starts, boon totems wont
- any secondary requirement(aka, 5 stacks for devour hope) would be needed AFTER activating the perk, meaning as a survivor, you'd need to activate the perk FIRST before you can gain stacks, while as killer, you can just play normally and gain stacks.
An example:
NOED wasnt always a hex totem. Adrenaline could become a boon totem. Currently a very powerful perk that you cannot prevent as a killer. After the update, Adrenaline is very likely to become a boon totem, making it preventable. Hope could also become a boon totem(and be active indefinitely untill cleansed, rather than a 2 minute limit).
Would you be willing to cleanse a blessing if it means preventing adrenaline? If not, nothing changes for you, if you do, you could prevent adrenaline.
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@feruis said:
He is simply way to hard for how little he offers, not to mention how hard he is on console.
people said the same about blight. look where he is now.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I always enjoy BHVR Forums after a killer release as half the forum topics are "X KILLER IS AWFUL WHAT A JOKE!!!!!" and the other half are "X KILLER IS STUPIDLY OP WHAT A JOKE!!!!!"
The only thing that irks me so far about playing him is when they have Ruin and you can't find the stupid ruin bones cause his chains will force you off the gen if you get the yellow thingy but overall, he seems like a middle of the road killer at best. And this is before I have had the chance to play as him, which is usually the best way for me to learn how to best deal with a killer so I expect him to lower a smidge in my rankings once the queues have simmered down and this crashing issue has been fixed and I get a chance to give him a spin.
yeah, if anything is too problematic on the killers in this game, its the genregression perks stacking too well. Especially on killers that dont need that kind of stacking yet still use it. Nurse and Blight are really fun to face if they dont rely too much on gen regression perks.
Same issue with Pinhead, Ruin Undying will be ridiculously strong on him, with his chains interrupting totems.
The perks are the problem, the killers, not so much(except spirit and certain addons)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
- blight #1 is not more skilled than blight #2 if both of them are getting same amount of kills and hooks on average. If blight #1 or blight #2 were better than each other, Either of them would have a better winrate.
- Hypothetically, Imagine if Survivor 1 is good at countering Trapper but dies to every other killer. Suppose that survivor 2 is good at surviving every killer but always loses to Trapper. Do you think survivor 1 is better at the game compared to survivor 2? It should be obvious that how well a survivor plays is based off average of all killers. Not a specific killer. At the end of the day, you will still be unhooking, doing generators and doing a chase as survivor, so many of survivor skills translate to vsing all the killers. This is why single MMR is sufficient for survivor as the survivors objective does not change regardless of the killer they are facing.
- The third point is simply untrue. You will not start 0 MMR with one killer if your MMR is 2000 on another killer. I am sure that a percentage of your MMR is shared across all killers, otherwise a 3000 hour player would be face a 20 hour player every single time they play a new killer. I remember this being a problem the first time MMR was tested.
- A map can favor one side, however the survivor still needs to effective at winning on fracture cowshed. There will be many survivors that lose on fracture cowshed just like there will be many killers that lose on lery memorial institute. The map does not instantly decide the outcome of the match. This point is reflecting on game balance over MMR system being good or bad.
- Many of survivors skills are personal skills. SWF does not magically make survivors better at their personal skills. Doing a generator is not SWF skill. Looping the killer is not SWF skill. SWF is a substitute for game sense and teamplay/teamwork. A solo survivor can have good game sense and good teamwork without the need of SWF. Admittedly, It is easier to have good game sense and good teamwork as SWF, so your point is not invalid, however a SWF is not magically better than a solo player if they do not have personal skills to back it up.
"A survivor running DS, DH, BT and Prove Thyself, should by default be considered less skillful than a survivor running Deception, Q&Q, Dance With Me and Lithe achieving the same results."
See killer point 1. This point applies to survivor as well.
"and most killers literally cannot be buffed untill solo survivors have access to portraying information to teammates(yes, killer mains claiming your killer is being ignored or nerfed without reason, solo survivor is the reason why your killer isnt getting the changes it deserves)."
This is very good excuse for poor balancing. Not a very good compelling argument.
- wrong, blight 1 got carried by perks and addons where blight 2 did not. If blight 1 were running the same build as blight 2, he would have worse statistics.
- Not even close to the point I was making. Fully irrelevant.
- I mean, all ELO's tend to start around 1000 points in general, and yes, seperating killers means that you will start at 1000 at all of them regardless of your ELO in any other killer(why else seperate them? Why not add the same system to survivors then?), there will be no ELO bleeding between killers."otherwise a 3000 hour player would be face a 20 hour player every single time they play a new killer. I remember this being a problem the first time MMR was tested." Yes, this is what happens when an MMR system is implemented. Every seperate killer will be treated as if you never played the game. This is not a problem, it is an inevitability that will fix itself within 2-4 weeks. Seperating killer ELO even if you are a 3000 hour player is THE POINT. If you are new at a killer, you would need to lean their power. If I have 5000 points on all killers and want to play the new killer but I am given 4000 points default on that killer because I am a good killer, it would he horrendous to learn his ability. Put him back at 1000 points and I have room to learn the ability in a short time and start climbing the ranks normally. Having ELO bleed over between killers is practically no different than the current matchmaking.
- again, irrelevant. The point is if you have only 3-4 maps that a killer does well on, and 14 that it doesnt do well on, that killer is going to be punished if they dont get the maps they need.
- Sigh, irrelevant again. The power in SWF is that they can communicate. Needing to cleanse a totem? A SWF can communicate that 1 person is cleansing all the totems, having 1 person check the map for totems. If they have 2 people cleansing totems, they can communicate where they have been. There will always be people available to do gens. In solo's, you can have all 4 people checking the map for totems with no one doing gens. So yes, SWF is "magically better" than solo because of time efficiency without needing any perks at all. A team of potatoes on comms tends to have better results than an average group full of solo players(unless those solo players happen to play with each other a lot, but that would make them closer to an SWF than solo's). So yes, at one point in MMR, all you're going to see is SWF, simply because of communication. Just as an example: For a solo survivor to have the same information of an SWF, they will need Kindred, Buckle Up, Bond, Empathy, Better Together and Windows of Oppertunity as a basekit.
And again, I will point out that survivor 1 would have performed worse if he ran the same build as survivor 2. Perks carried their ass. Survivor 1 would objectively perform worse than survivor 2 if they had the same build.
"This is very good excuse for poor balancing. Not a very good compelling argument."
I mean, this is literally the case. The fact that solo survivor is much, much worse than the worst killer, while SWF is much, much better than the best killer, is why killers cannot be balanced properly. Many killers rely on the fact that survivors do not have good communications. Which is why SWF destroys certain killers much more than others. Spirit and Nurse have trouble keeping up with the best SWF's, Myers steamrolls over a team full of solo's. Switch their roles, and Myers is incapable of getting any kills at all without camping with his stalk at 99, where Spirit and Nurse still steamroll over a team of solo's.
It might be a poor excuse that killers get gutted because of solo survivors, but it's exactly what is happening.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476674#Comment_2476674
How long have you been playing DbD? Dead Hard hasn't been a dodge perk since dedicated servers, when people realised it was objectively stronger as an on-command burst of speed.
And besides, that doesn't justify i-frames in a game like DbD, where your opponent doesn't have an equivalent ability. It's original concept was as a perk that robbed a killer of a hit for free because you could always see them swinging before they touched you - I'm glad it stopped functioning that way.
"How long have you been playing DbD? Dead Hard hasn't been a dodge perk since dedicated servers, when people realised it was objectively stronger as an on-command burst of speed."
Doesnt matter, it's still primarily a dodge perk.
"And besides, that doesn't justify i-frames in a game like DbD, where your opponent doesn't have an equivalent ability. It's original concept was as a perk that robbed a killer of a hit for free because you could always see them swinging before they touched you - I'm glad it stopped functioning that way."
It actually still functions that way if latency is good. And as for i-frames where your opponent doesnt have an equivalent ability, what about killers being unable to be stunned during an animation? What about blinding killers not letting grabbed survivors go unless they were blinded at the right time? What about killers being able to prioritize hooking after survivors have reached 100% wiggle progression, even though wiggling out is as impossible in this game as it can get. What about killers being able to slug in a 2v1 for a 4k to prevent a hatch game OR a gate game when they can just as easily hook the 3rd survivor and reach the hatch before the final survivor?
There are plenty of unfair things in this game, Dead Hard isnt really unfair as it gives killers a moment of hesitation that give ALL survivors(including those who dont run DH) a moment where they can pull something off rather than killers mindlessly swinging at survivors.
Like I said, DH would need increased speed and distance if you want to remove i-frames, that keeps the effect that current DH grants all survivors. Just like BT gives killers 12 seconds of hesitation, and DS gives them 60 seconds of hesistation, both reasons to not tunnel a survivor.
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@CornHub said:
I want answers. The devs have shown they aren't afraid of handing out nerfs & reworking killers yet people believe they're hesitant to touch spirit, why? Am I supposed to believe the devs are willing to kill their game over a killer supposedly having no counterplay?
What's more likely, some people are getting outplayed by a killer or the devs have some secret pro-Spirit agenda & most of them are collaborating to prevent any change to her kit?
Thing is, Spirit has a very thin line between utter trash and insanely powerful.
IMO, all they need to do is 3 things.
- remove scratchmarks while she is phasing(its not hard to see where a survivor is going anyway, phasing to where you think they are going is gonna work most of the time anyway, and her power recovers fast enough).
- dont give her fake husk passive phasing(that way, there is a way for survivors to know when Spirit is actually phasing)
- revisit her addons after these 2 changes.
Those are the only 2 feasable changes you can give to Spirit to make her more fun to play against as survivor, without making her utterly trash.
This is, ofcourse, ignoring the existance of sound bugs.
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@VioletCrimes said:
Larger maps? ######### no. The biggest problem with RPD is it’s size.
RPD isnt actually that big tho.
Its biggest issue is that Red is the shortest path between 2 points, when Blue or Black should be optional routes
and here where at least 1 blue route needs to be added
Other than those 2 parts, the map is actually quite fine.
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On the average match, dont really notice a difference. On the matches where the killer is obviously playing from Mars, definitely noticable as I no longer get downed from a chainsawing Bubba who would otherwise get stunned 10 seconds after downing me.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476590#Comment_2476590
Because it's not a dodge perk. If a survivor is exhausted on the ground, they ######### up and used it wrong. Dead Hard is a distance perk that can be used to extra-######### some specific killers by also dodging their attacks for free.
"Because it's not a dodge perk." Except it literally is: 'When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to AVOID damage.'
"If a survivor is exhausted on the ground, they [BAD WORD] up and used it wrong." Nope, it's dedicated servers. From their perspective, they used it at the perfect time.
"Dead Hard is a distance perk that can be used to extra-[BAD WORD] some specific killers by also dodging their attacks for free." Nope, it's a dodge perk that gives you a slight amount of distance to give you enough room to vault a window if a killer whiffed a hit. If you didnt gain any distance and just gained I-frames, the killer could just hit you directly again. Where other exhaustion perks are guaranteed to give you distance once used, Dead Hard does not.
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Perks I (practically) don't use because they are too weak or too boring and I cannot really think of any builds that work or they are too good at what they are supposed to do(and thus least favourite):
Flip Flop(give it a 100% conversion rate and cap wiggle progress at 65%)
Buckle Up(add the ability to pick up other downed survivors while you're downed, or to be picked up by other downed survivors while you're downed, and it would be amazing, first perk to counter mass slugging without being a self pick-up perk)
Calm Spirit(should make breathing softer too, no screaming and no crows is a bit too niche and softer breathing would fit the perk theme)
Sole Survivor(since it no longer works with Object of Obsession, the distance should be 40 meters per token(having 120 meters at 3 survivors dead, AKA full aura reading immunity)
Up The Ante(buffing from 1/2/3% to 3/4/5% for a max of 9/12/15% of luck would actually be quite good)
No Mither(either being healthy from the beginning of the match, only to be broken for the remainder of the match if you're able to pick yourself up once, or reducing grunts of pain by 75-100%, it's supposed to be hard mode for survivors, not easy mode for killers)
Poised(also remove blood for 10 seconds, having no scratchmarks but still blood isnt exactly useful in any scenario)
Tenacity(the first 5 seconds you're downed, have 0 sound and 150% increased crawling speed(which would be close to Urban Evasion 1 crouching speed), then back to the 50% increased speed(which is roughly standard crouching speed))
Babysitter(also block aura readings on the survivor you saved, and up the amount of time to 12 seconds, that way it's a decent replacement for BT)
Red Herring(reduce the cooldown from 40 to 10 seconds, it already takes time to find a usable gen and a locker for it to work properly)
Visionary(double the aura reading on gens, Rookie Spirit would still be better value than Visionary if that were the case, at least Visionary would make it easier to find difficult gens)
Power Struggle(only an issue because of current Flip Flop, so either lower it to 15% with current Flip Flop, or buff Flip Flop and this perk is fine)
Hope(Hopefully this would become a Boon totem, and like NOED would last essentially forever as long as it's standing instead of only 2 minutes, otherwise, buff the time to 180 seconds)
Lightweight(make scratchmarks more spread-out, making it even less predictable, including the 3 second faster disappearance so it's still possible for the killer to deduce where the survivor is heading, but instead of having 3 seconds less to see the scratchmarks, they would need to wait 7 seconds to see which direction the scratchmarks are disappearing towards)
No One Left Behind(trigger the effect once the final gen is finished or increase the speed to 100%)
Premonition(lower the cooldown, even a 5 second cooldown would make Spinechill superior, it would just be easier to use)
This Is Not Happening(increase the chance for skillchecks by 20%, would make it a useful support perk for perks like Autodidact)
Dying Light(each gained stack should also reduce the healing buff gained by the obsession by 3%, stacks should remain once the obsession is removed from the game just like STBFL)
Beast of Prey(just gain undetectability whenever you enter a chase)
Territorial Imperative(notification and perma aura reading rather than just 3 seconds, distance could remain the same, I'd rather have it be based around the Terror Radius, meaning if the survivor is not in the terror radius while entering the basement, their aura is being shown)
Fire Up(should gain 5% per gen, 15% for the last gen, giving a total of 7 stacks(at 35% increased action speed after the final gen) as there are a total of 7 gens on the map)
Blood Echo(base 5/10/15 second exhaustion regardless of injured state, +30 second exhaustion(aka 35/40/45 seconds) when injured. Cooldown 60 seconds across all tiers)
Dragons Grip(should work like Make Your Choice. No cooldown, just the last gen you kicked having a 30 second "protection", disable the perk once a survivor is exposed. As soon as the survivor is no longer exposed, the perk can be used again)
GearHead(buff it to 45 seconds and include great skill checks)
Dead Man's Switch(activate the timer once a generator has been let go)
Distressing(make it 35% and give the bonus BP post-game rather than during, some builds benefit from a large terror radius, having Distressing be the best solo perk to get a massive TR would be great)
NOED(100% spawn chance if all totems are standing, 80% when 4 totems are standing, 60% if 3 totems are standing, 40% with 2 and 20% with 1. Or 100% spawn chance with 5 and 4 totems standing, 75% with 3, 50% with 2 and 25% with 1, OR 100% chance with 5/4/3 totems standing, 66% with 2, and 33% with 1, essentially making the perk less likely to spawn if survivors cleanse totems and more likely to spawn if survivors dont or barely cleanse totems. As for compensation, the totem should be entity blocked for 30-60 seconds after it spawns)
Thrill of the Hunt(increase to 7% per totem for a max of 45% increase, also bloodpoints awarded post-game)
Insidious(stand still for 2 seconds to gain undetectability, for each second you stand still, gain 2 seconds of undetectability while moving up to a max of 60 seconds)
Monstrous Shrine(should either apply to every hook, or should be 20%-25% flat in all values)
Spies from the Shadows(instead of notification, give a 5 second aura reading of anyone within 36 meters of a disturbed crow, 20-40 seconds cooldown)
Unrelenting(increase the % from 30 to 45% and we gucci)
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@Raccoon said:
1. How often do you see NOED in your games?
2. How often does it get you killed?
3. Do you cleanse totems?
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1. Probably 1 in 10 games in Purple/Red
2. Not very often, assuming it activates. If it's up and I can't find it after a cursory look (assuming I'm not running Hunch), I generally don't get downed unless I'm in chase/on the radar as last gen pops - I also have no issue being greedy and opening the gate/leaving if someone is hooked. I also have no issue stealthing in the endgame vs endgame builds.
3. I usually cleanse them as I see them. Generally 2-3 in an average game or a guaranteed 3+ if I'm running Hunch.
- recently quite often
- depends on the team, map, killer, my location and which totem it spawns on
- if I happen to pass by one and the killer isnt oppressive, sure, if the killer is already oppressive enough that I dont have time to do totems, no.
But those questions dont really matter. What does matter is the following:
How fair is an instadown with no cooldown/charge up, in a match where solo survivors cannot communicate which totems they have cleansed and any uncleansed totem guarantees it's spawning mechanism?
NOED is unbalanced because of a lack of communication in the vanilla game. NOED is unbalanced because it punishes people, who do cleanse totems they see, more than people who never cleanse totems at all(if you do 0 totems, you'll find NOED faster than if you have done 4 totems).
Add a ping system that communicates information to teammates, and NOED goes from problematic hex totem, to being completely fine, if not underpowered.
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@MadLordJack said:
NOED. All 'round terrible design. It needs a full rework to make it fair and scary - something like Devour Hope, but without the cleansing...? There's been plenty of ideas about reworking it into a solid perk, I won't rehash them, but suffice it to say this one is a big deal for me. No-one likes leaving someone behind because the killer equipped a perk and facecamped them. And I especially hate dying because some solo-que genius decided to cleanse all 5 dull totems instead of being a useful teammate.
Dead Hard - I dislike exhaustion perks, but this one takes the cake. And dashes away with it while being completely and utterly invulnerable. My solution? Remove the i-frames. The dash is fine - frustrating, but fine, because it affects all killers equally and makes it so versatile. The i-frames don't. They're what makes it a true, free second chance.
Tinkerer - too strong with mobile killers, barely useful with the rest. I would buff the Undetectable duration and shift the activation forward to 90%, or make it only go off 5 times in a trial.
Dead Hard needs I-frames though, otherwise any lunge would be a hit, removing any decent use for Dead Hard. If you'd remove the i-frames, the dash needs to be longer and faster to outspeed/outrange a killer lunge. Giving survivors more distance while keeping essentially the same effect.
Survivors already are consistently exhausted on the floor even with Dead Hard.
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6 meters is honestly fine, hangmans trick is good against SWF where it tells you if someone is ready to sabotage a hook. The only buff it should need IMO is giving a killer permanent aura reading on hooks in general(not survivors near hooks, just the hooks).
You already see the hook aura when someone is on it, you already get a notification after a hook is sabotaged. The only benefit it would gain is that you know what hooks are available to you before you down the survivor. That way you can create a pre-planned path before you even pick up a survivor.
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@CornHub said:
Which begs the question, will they finally break the cycle of relatively attractive female characters or will she "woman but she kills people" #5? I'm hopeful we'll get something different this time around.
Same could be applied to the male staff though. Pretty much all male killers are relatively attractive. Clown and Bubba have a bit of dad-bods, but even those are just "man but he kills people".
The only killer that is not fitting either, is Demogorgon, but he's a handsome puppy too.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2471287#Comment_2471287
Believe it or not, it was working quite well last test
I was shocked as well
I mean, I won 85% of my games, and I was still matched with much lower skilled killers and survivors because the 15% that I did lose were in a row. That's not exactly working well.
In consideration:
I had 70% of my games matched up with people who had 50 hours(I asked), the first 30% of matches was fine, I barely played SBMM, so its obvious I would be treated as a new player. After 70% of games playing with people who had 50-100 hours, I got matched up with my first full 1000+ hour match. I won, next match 2000+ hour players, I lost, but it didnt feel like a loss. Next match? 100 hour players. This happened over and over again. Where I would get 100 hours, 1000+ hours, 2000+ hours, then back to 100 hours because I "lost" once. Doesnt really make sense to put me back at players with 100 hours if I have the skill of 2000+ hours and the only reason I lost was because we were a full solo Q team.
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@EntitySpawn said:
Reasons I'm excited:
1. Wont have to do 4/5gens
2. Games will be more normalized
3. Allows me to play my weaker killers not at the highest level
4. Adepts etc. Mught become easier
I'm not actually going to hate this update, I wasnt lucky enough to get easy or free games for either side I played. It always felt the teams I versed as killer understood all tiles and was efficient on gens and then on survivor the killers always seems good. So for me all that would change is less bad teammates...
Anyone else excited? I know there so many negative threads, but honestly I feel they need a wake up call.
Positive is it allows a more accurate way to see balance points
reasons why I am not excited:
- The gap between solo q and SWF is far too large still
- Myers still doesnt even get close to the power of a casual SWF to get consistent wins
The fact that the roster isnt balanced for SBMM, makes it impossible to have a good SBMM. You will have people not playing lower tier killers because they are going to be absolute ######### once they are at their peak. People will hate playing solo q, because the better they are, the worse their games will be.
This isnt the game where SBMM makes sense. SBMM should at best influence 30% of matchmaking, but never 100%.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/277138/sbmm-streamer-propaganda
I mean...
We have things in Favor of Survivors. Listed in this Order
1: Stretch Res
2: Multiple Ds / Unbreaks
3: Pre-throwing / Gen Rushing
4: Swf
5: Less than 5 minute games..
Oh, let me give you a list of things in favor of killers:
- dead zones
- increased gamma(why do you think maps have been made brighter? just like walls have been heightened to combad stretched res)
- stacking gen regression(ruin, undying, tinkerer, pop on killers who are already insane at patrolling gens)
- tunneling
- solo surv(optimal SWF might be the highest potential in the game, but solo survivor is by far the worst, Myers, Clown and old Demo were viable because of solo surv)
- less than 2 minute games because you got tunneled out.
- slugging
Before Bill was released, there was no counter to camping or slugging. DS could easily be juggled. Unbreakable is meant to combat slugging. If you slugged a survivor for more than 20 seconds without hooking them, you deserve the Unbreakable. If you tunnel a survivor, you deserve the DS.
Perks that do not get deserved as a punishment right now:
NOED.
That's it, all other perks are either deserved or earned. NOED is the only outlier where even if survivors spend time cleansing 4 totems during the match, they will get punished by a NOED. That is simply not deserved.
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@Emeal said:
Yep they do sure complain about it. But people who play sweaty, should get sweaty matches.
Except that streamers dont really play sweaty, yet the amount of hours they have compensate for public matches.
Expect a lot less released content from people who play this game for fun, because there wont be a lot of fun in high ranks.
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@Astrian said:
I am speaking specifically on the survivor side.
There are a lot of survivors complaining about Skill Based Match Making saying they get bad games now and it's not fun for them.
I personally have had the exact opposite, Survivor games are fantastic for me, people are actually trying to win, doing generators, saving their teammates, not getting downed in 2 seconds, many different, skilled killers being played like Hag, Hillbilly and Huntress. This is great!
I started thinking about it, and realistically, the only people who should be negatively affected by Skill-Based matchmaking are:
- Very High skilled people who will now get paired with equally high skilled, sweaty people
- Low skilled people who think they're good, but actually aren't
Now, I'm not trying to accuse anybody of anything, but all I'm saying is, most people probably aren't the high skilled people like Otzdarva or any content creator like that who have thousands upon thousands of hours in the game.
All I'm saying is, my experience from the tests that BHVR have put, says that the new matchmaking is doing it's job. I see a lot of other people who have had great experiences with the new matchmaking as well, and they all say the same things I do.
For those that are skeptical of the matchmaking, give it a try. You might actually like it.
For those that have had a negative experience with the matchmaking, maybe that's just where you belong :)
As for me, I am sure I will thoroughly enjoy SBMM when it is reimplemented into the game and I'll be glad to finally be able to play some good games of survivor and play some good games of killer without people instantly disconnecting when they see a killer they don't like.
3k hours here, can honestly say that people, especially content creators, will be less likely to create content/have fun consistently.
Yes, SBMM has left even me with some matches that were absolutely amazing, but on average? The matches were worse than current matchmaking. I've encountered more campers, forcing me to run perks I do not enjoy running just to be able to play more than 2 minutes after I am downed the first time.
SBMM isnt the solution, it's part of a solution. At best, SBMM should affect 30% of my matches. If half of my matches are based around SBMM, I am not gonna have fun, and I would be inclined to quit after 3k hours of gameplay where most games were fun, even if they were frustrating at times. Now, 90% of my games would be frustrating as I would gain less bloodpoints because people are going to run optimal strats more often, and optimal strats give both sides a minimal amount of bloodpoints. Increasing the already existing grind, making games less fun on average and forcing players to run boring perks.
SBMM is bad, even for the casual player. Because higher rank solo survivors will straight up quit. Higher rank killers would straight up quit. Leaving only the highest ranked spirits and nurses against the highest ranked SWF's, which arent going to be plenty, meaning to reduce matchmaking, those teams would need to be matched up with the next best thing.
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@Huge_Bush said:
Killers are supposed to be somewhat oppressive and have the upper hand versus survivors. Why shouldn't they be allowed to equip Franklin's or Lightborn, in order to counter an easily acquired item that can undo all of their hard work with a simple press of a button?
It is unfair that survivors can bring in items to flashlight save, sabo a hook or rush generators and the killer not be able to counter it. They only have 4 perks versus your teams 16 perks.
As far as swfs, why shouldn't killers know they're going into a match against a premade group with coordination and comms? The game isn't balanced around it and they have an unfair advantage, so why shouldn't killers be able to prepare to face them?
to be fair, out of those 16 perks, most perks dont even compare to any single perk of a killer. DS 4 times would be a 20 second stun. Assuming 1 second for the killer is 4 times more valuable than survivors, that's still 80 seconds. Pop goes the weasel has up to 20 seconds per hook of regression, meaning 4 hooks will compensate for 4 ds's, and you can have up to 11 hooks before the game ends. Meaning Pop potential alone is almost 3 times larger than 4 survivor DS potential.
So no, its not really unfair that survivors have 16 slots when 1 killer slot has more potential than 4 slots.
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@latinfla4 said:
So you are asking high rank players to go on a losing streak or too sweat way too hard to play? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 yeah why optimize the game or add a casual mode...thanks bhvr for reinforcing my decision to not spend money on your game anymore and watch dbd become lobby simulator 2021.
When higher sbmm swf groups cant find killers then killers not at their level will be thrust into those roles just watch and we can have more people leaving the game🤔
Edit: I know some people are saying lower tier killers will be buffed to compensate but I doubt it...look how long it's taking them to change the trappers basic carrying capacity from a 1 to a 2🤣
the game was always in casual mode. ranked mode was what needed to be added
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@YearOfTheHag said:
Hi good people of the DBD forums It has been a long year, but it is finally over.
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I have won every killer game I have played since last year, today, and I learned a lot along the way that I would love to share and discuss.
Before we get into an argument, I will define what I called a win:
• 4 kills
• 3 kills + hatch/gate if I was in control and allowed it
I know there is an ongoing debate about hooks vs kills, in which I am pretty firmly in the “kills” camp, but that’s a discussion for a different thread. If there was an obvious hacker (VERY rare), then I did not count a loss. I can remember only two instances of this happening, where people just escaped the trial before gens were done and without hatch being opened. A key escape of 2+ people, had one happened, would have been a loss.
I will try to answer some questions before they are asked:
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How many games did I win?
• About 700, by my estimates
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Why did I do this?
• I know pushing for wins is not all there is in the game, but I felt it would force me to learn as much as possible about The Hag and DBD from the Hag’s perspective.
• Just wanted to see if I could
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Do I have a life outside of DBD?
• Yes. The pandemic gave me time and an excuse to play more games. I am a PhD student (studying games, partially) so the rest of my time is pretty full.
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I only won because I did not play YOU or YOUR SWF!
• If you are in NA East, I probably did
• No, I am not interested in playing you now for your stream or whatever
• Might be true, might not.
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Do win streaks matter?
• I think so, I got to play a ton of games against a wild array of skill levels and got to experience a lot of different game-states. Having won all of them, I think that I learned a lot, at least.
• A win streak, IMO, is just saying that against X number of teams, none were able to beat me. That suggests that the odds of finding a SWF that CAN beat me is 1/X. The bigger X is, the less likely you are to find such a group.
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Which killer did I use? What was my build?
• I played every killer game as The Hag. She just clicked with me and I love her playstyle. She is one of the harder killers to learn and play optimally, IMO, so it was a great challenge.
• I played a lot with my build. I tried all the new perks as I unlocked them. I played a lot of meme-y builds, too, but my favorite has been:
• STBFL: Obvious pick for hag. Excellent.
• Pop or CI: I like CI because it helped me stay calm in the early game, but Pop is probably “better”. I also don’t love kicking gens. I feel like the time is better spent keeping the web set up.
• MYC: My favorite killer perk. This allows the hag to skip hook traps to free up traps for better locations while also increasing her lethality. Very strong.
• Franklins: Keys were risky, but beyond that people tend to lose their minds when they drop items that they like, so trapping them is a pretty solid move
• Add-Ons: I always used a TP range (cicada) and a Phantasm Duration (Egg shell) when I could. Any colour was fine. Never used any purple or pink add-on.
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This win streak is proof that the Hag is OP!
• I am one person playing in one region with one particular playstyle. This streak really does not prove anything about the game or the Hag. This is not data, this is an anecdote and, probably a pretty majorly outlying one.
• That being said, I think that the Hag does have a couple of bigger issues:
- Low skill hags get a TON of value from hook traps with very little input. The skill-in to power-out ratio seems broken to me. I think that a perfect solution could be that rescues break traps in a small radius around the hook. This would force newer hags to get better without really interfering with high skill play.
- Add-ons: OMG her shackles and mint rag need looking at. They should probably be nerfed. Her Scarred hand and Waterlogged Shoe need reworks, too, to make them more viable.
• Hag is not OP. I think that she has plenty of counterplay (see below). I also think that people do not like the counterplay that hag forces, so they do not do it and then complain that they lost. She makes for a very different game on both sides. Whether or not that is healthy or fun is a matter of opinion, I think. I think that there are stronger and weaker killers. Hag is fantastic, but can be beaten.
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Hag has no counterplay!
• I had a lot of close calls vs some very strong SWF (and non SWF) teams along the way.
• I play 50-50 killer and surv, so I also play my fair share of hags and I rarely lose to them, now.
• Some survivors went as far as acknowledging that they could have crouched over traps on the map but preferred not to because they didn’t think that was fun counterplay. I understand not liking a matchup, but if you want every killer to provide a similar survivor experience and allow you to play in a similar way without needing to adapt, I imagine that a lot of matchups feel awful. I promise that if you devote some time to the VS Hag matchup, it will be a lot more enjoyable and winnable than you think.
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How to beat the Hag, by a Hag main:
• Harass her traps:
- Identify quickly that you are playing vs a hag and keep her placed trap count low. If you are a competent runner, take a hit if you have to, just don’t let her set up her whole web.
- As soon as she picks up another survivor, start running around like a maniac to pop traps while she cant punish you for it.
- If a teammate gets injured, you could also try to harass traps and hope she drops that person and teleports to you instead, saving a down/hook, hopefully
• Always ALWAYS look at a trap you expect to go off
- Her camera swing allows the hag to place traps in locations that will force survivors to take one path over another. They can slow vaults, also. This swing does not occur when you look at a trap before it goes off.
- This allows you more freedom to dodge even an instant hit and pick your path
• Abuse loops:
- The Hag is a slow muddy lady. Greed untrapped pallets and loops to extend chase time.
- The longer she is on you, the less time she has to set her traps
• If you are in a chase, always move towards the opposite direction from which the hag came
- There are traps there.
• The game is about prediction and knowledge:
- The Hag wins when her game knowledge and prediction is just better than the survivors. She is not mechanically intense, but she gets the most value from just knowing things like running speeds, safety of pallets, totem spots, etc.
- You have to think like a Hag. Figure out where she WANTS to trap and avoid/harass those places as you go. Places like shack, dropped pallets, lit hexes, are all going to be trapped.
- A good hag will adapt to you, as you adapt to her. Watch for spicier traps in grass, outside of intersections, near unused hooks.
• Map awareness
- If you can, call out trap locations over comms
*Try to figure out where the hag is on the map at all times. When she is in chase and injures a teammate you should get some info. * Keep track of her locations so you can better anticipate traps in those areas
• Perks
- Borrowed time is a very strong counter to hook trapping hags. You already bring it, so keep that up!
- Urban Evasion is not good enough to bring in hopes that you will get value from it vs a hag, though it is a very good perk in certain situation
- Fast healing perks will save you lots of time, which is extra important in this matchup. I like Inner Strength, personally. Resurgence might be great, also.
- Most exhaustion perks really don’t bother the Hag. If you get away just to step in a trap, you still go down. Dead hard is an exception. Incredibly strong perk. It lets you dodge instant TP hits and cover up a mistake or spicy trap.
• Franklins
- Do not ever go back for an item you lost unless the hag is holding another survivor. You can think of it like you are taking one of her traps hostage, if you want to.
• Make your choice
- After a rescue, run back in exactly the way you came towards the rescue. It is the safest way to avoid a down. Bring the rescued surv with you when possible.
• Hooks
- Crouch while rescuing AND while being rescued. If the hag is far away, you are safe.
• Camping hags
- This is the big one for a lot of people.
- Bad hags will sit right near a hook after putting 2+ traps around it. Treat this almost like a leatherface. Do gens and get out.
- If you want to rescue from a heavily trapped hook, you need 2 people. One pops the traps and the other gets the rescue as the hag chases or botches her TPs.
• Scroll wheel hag
- Not really a threat. Good hags never do this, even if you think they do.
- A scroll wheel hag does not pick her TPs, she is basically a bot that instantly loses to any mindgame or successful harassment.
- Better hags will choose when to TP, but may still be faster than you would like them to be, that is part of the skillset.
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Is the game killer-sided?
• I play 50-50 surv and killer.
• I think that solo q players have it the worst, then killers, then SWF, then top tier killers, then optimal SWF.
• I have no doubt that there are plenty of SWFs that would have demolished me. The info and coordination they have access to would be more than enough to deal with a strong Hag.
• I think that top tier killers: Spirit, Nurse, Hag, Blight (In that order, fight me). When played by a good enough player have a pretty easy time against the average red ranked SWF.
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I must have been super sweaty and mean
• I try not to be mean. I try to give hatch after good games and I never tunnel or camp.
• Sweat, though? Big time. I was trying to win every game for a year. Yeah, I slugged early in some games against scarier teams. I brought a very strong build with good add-ons.
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Who is the best Hag player?
• Michi. Please go watch his videos on Hag and Trap guides. Even if you don’t want to play the Hag, it is a great resource in learning to play against her. I only won games because I watched his stuff. Space Coconut gets an honourable mention, too. He has some (older, now) good hag videos and plays with a different style from Michi.
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What is the most important thing for a Hag player?
• Knowledge
- Know the maps, tiles, perks, pallets, escape routes.
- Play survivor a lot.
• Style
- Develop your own playstyle. Be a scary unknowable mud lady. If they can predict your trap placements, they will beat you.
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How is playing the Hag for new players?
• Play a lot of survivor and a lot of other killers before you decide to main Hag. Learn everything you can about the game from both perspectives. This will also prevent you from not being able to ever swap to a more standard killer, as only playing Hag does not teach you some of the basics.
• You are going to lose a lot. Just be fine with it and learn.
• Watch high level Hag gameplay and try to figure out WHY each trap is placed and keep tabs on when each go off and under what circumstances
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What do I think about MMR?
• I don’t really see how an MMR system will be able to compare killers (simple metrics of success) to survivors (vastly more complex measures of success), so I don’t think it will be a very good system
• That being said, my games were a LOT harder during some of the MMR tests, though queue times were unbearable. Recent tests felt pretty much like normal games. Take from that what you will. Personally, given my experiences during testing, I think that good killers can still reasonably get big streaks, though it may be harder. I think it comes down to the odds of finding a good enough team and the point at which queue times will get too long in trying to find them.
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Why did I make a new account / what is my steam name?
• Based on my average end game chat, I think some people have a hard time losing to Hags. I also think some people have a hard time knowing what can and cannot be learned from data. As such, I think I will spare myself the hate mail.
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Did I lose?
• No. The goal was for a year and now that is over. I am not interested in sweating hard for wins anymore. I want to play friendly Demo for a while.
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Do I have any neat tricks?
• Yes! I stumbled across two fun mindgames that I would love to share with you:
• Egg tech:
- You instantly teleport to a trap, but the sneaky survivor was baiting you with sprint burst and ran away before you could slap. Don’t move. Follow them with your eyes, moving ONLY in the X axis, mimicking the phantasm’s movements. A lot of them will come back towards you, thinking you just have phantasm duration add-ons (Eggs). I’ve gotten a ton of hits from this and even some gen grabs.
- I like it because it works against good players’ knowledge and expectations. Nobody would TP just to stare at you, right? Standing still is a mindgame lol.
• Slapping wood:
- You are on the other side of a dropped pallet from a survivor. I typically don’t love trapping very close to some pallets and prefer nearby choke points so this happens sometimes. When the hag breaks a pallet, she is one of the few killers who use their hands and not their feet or some weird animation. That means that if you lunge at the pallet, it will look very close to her breaking animation to a lot of survivors. They will usually run away and right into a trap that you are now free to TP to.
- If the survivor knows what Hag’s animations look like you are going to embarrass yourself and confuse them. Let’s call it being unpredictable. I love this so much.
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That’s what I could imagine people would want to know. I hope we can have a discussion about this stuff and try to learn from each other. Let’s keep it civil.
GL out there in the fog.
TL;DR: I won all my killer games for a year, learned some stuff about the Hag, thought I should share.
Camping hag is my biggest issue, because the only counterplay is a genrush.
If the only way to counter a vanilla mechanic is to rush the objective, the mechanic is the issue. "just rush gens" should never be the answer.
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@Crowman said:
The thing with SBMM is at least it can prevent matching absolute new players with veterans since I doubt SBMM won't select the closest available MMR group to match people with.
But SBMM isn't a ranked mode. Queueing up is still the "casual" mode you are complaining that doesn't exist. I know League of Legend's normal mode has it's own mmr matchmaking as well. This idea that a casual mode can only be casual if it throws veterans vs new players so veterans can have "fun" is bs.
SBMM as a concept isnt bad, but in an asymmetrical game? In a game where there is a bigger gap between an optimal group of friends and solo q than a god nurse and a terrible myers? Nah.
SBMM should be part of matchmaking, but at best be influencing 30% of matchmaking
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@PsychoTron said:
SWF death squads: It's not fair. Why are we being punished just because we want to play with our friends.
Now we're only going to face nurses and blights running meta perks with thousands of hours.
Top killer mains: It's not fair. I put a lot of time and effort into this game to be good and now I'm being punished going against sweaty SWFs after SWFs.
How will I ever do my 50+ win streaks again??
____________________________________________________________________________
You're being matched against someone just as skilled as you. Sorry but no more lopsided matches for you.
My suggestion for both if you don't like it?? play less sweaty and maybe your SBMM will get lower.
I dont want SBMM for the following reasons:
- I cant ever take off-meta perks
- Solo Q and SWF has the biggest gap, the highest level Nurse and lowest level Myers are closer than the highest level SWF and lowest level Solo. Meaning, if I play with friends, I will be under my skill because of how horrendous Solo Q is.
SBMM should have some effect on matchmaking, but it should not be the number 1 decision maker in matchmaking.
I think the best matches would be 30% SBMM, 30% random/rainbow matchmaking and 40% current matchmaking. That would most likely cause the most consistent matchmaking where you can have fun while facing skilled opponents without really having to care about the meta.
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@Crowman said:
People don't like playing against strong things, because they want easy wins. It's too much effort for the average survivor to cleanse totems.
Kinda wrong tho. I dont like playing against it because of Solo Q. For the average Solo Q there is a multitude of things that makes this build super boring to face:
- I dont know when a teammate is cleansing a totem, meaning I could be looking for a totem that is already being cleansed
- I dont know where a teammate has been, meaning I could be looking in places my teammate has already thoroughly checked.
- I dont know if a teammate has seen a hex totem before or during their chase, meaning I would be wasting time searching for a totem for quite some time
Solo Q looking for totems is essentially people looking for 20 totems. SWF looking for totems is people looking for 5 totems.
This build is boring and a problem because of solo q.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466908#Comment_2466908
Ruin is a high risk-high reward perk. Ruin can be cleansed as early as 20 seconds into a match which would cause it to provide 0 value. Ruin also provides 0 value if you manage to complete a gen without interruption. It's not unhealthy because it makes survivors take longer to complete gens if the killer is pressuring survivors.
What would make ruin unhealthy if it was just a passive perk that survivors couldn't remove from the game, because then it would be far too strong.
What is unhealthy is this mindset that killer perks shouldn't be impactful and provide a hinderance to the survivors. Especially on perks that provide direct counterplay (cleansing the totem).
Ruin alone? Yes, agreed. Ruin and Undying? Bit of an issue
@konchok said:
Before this was even popular, which was way back because it was right when blight came out. I was running Surveillance rather than tinkerer, it's surprising to me that no one uses or complains about surveillance when it acheives basically the same thing.
Yeah, but surveillance still keeps your TR, so survivors know you're coming in advance. On killers like Nurse, Blight or Bubba where being out of position is the difference between a 5 second chase and a 40 second chase, especially considering you cannot warn your teammates.
Current Ruin, Tinkerer Undying would be fine on high mobility killers if there was a ping system. Ruin, Undying and Surveillance is fine without ping system
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In all honesty, it depends which killer is running the build, if it's a Nurse, Blight, Oni, (Mintrag) Hag, Spirit or any other killer that is already good at keeping chases very short while having enough mobility to patrol a large area. It's really danm boring as Solo Q cannot do #########. Even if they cleanse both totems relatively early, they cant communicate where a totem is, so everyone has to find the totem themselves. Meaning it's not 1 team searching 5 totems efficiently. It's 4 individuals searching up to 20 totems.
On killers that are a bit weaker and need to buy every second they can get and this build isnt really as noticable.
So yeah, super meta gen slowdown on killers that dont need it to get consistent wins is boring. You're literally doing it to push a 70% winrate up to a 90% winrate at that point. Why would you even want to win 90% of your games if its done through the most boring way possible? This isnt a tournament, survivors are not optimal, losing is fine. You should try to win ofcourse, but keep the games fun too. 1-2 gens popping isnt a big deal. If you have a build that gives you a consistent 4k with 3 gens left, maybe you should consider playing less sweaty with the builds you run and people wont complain about it.
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@TwitchyMike said:
There really isn't a way to counter it unless they drastically change the way the game is played. (AKA making the game mechanics for killer and killer perks based off of the fact that survivors are SWF)
I love Solo Q and SWF but unfortunately they're completely different experiences. I know this is a discussion that gets talked about a lot but just thought I'd put my $0.02 in.
SWF isnt the problem here. Solo Q actually is.
The reason quite a lot of killers arent as strong as they should be to work with optimal SWF, is because they would be far too powerful to deal with Solo Q.
Nerfing or removing SWF would mean nerfing killers. Buffing Solo up to the potential of SWF would mean buffing killers.
Dont hate on SWF being strong, hate on Solo Q being weak.
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@Timeman63 said:
Hello class, welcome to Bad Perk University! I'll be your professor for today, and we'll be going over the worst perks The Entity has to offer and see how to make the most out of them. I haven’t talked about Hex perks in a while have I? Let’s change that today, with The Third Seal. Third Seal is a pretty simple Hex perk. Upon hitting a survivor with a basic attack, you apply a permanent Blindness status effect to them until Third Seal gets cleansed. That’s pretty much it, and Third Seal has a token counter to show you how many survivors have Blindness.
So why is this perk bad? It’s important to understand what Blindness actually does, since it can sometimes feel like a nothing debuff. It makes it so you do not see auras for as long as the status effect lasts. You immediately think of your aura reading perks like Object of Obsession, Empathy, Bond, Visionary and so on, but even without those perks, you have basic aura reading that happens in a few instances:
1. You see when a teammate is downed
2. You see when a teammate is on a hook
3. You see your teammates’ auras when you are downed and hooked
Blindness will prevent you from seeing all of those things, and while only having the effect for about a minute with certain killer addons is not really anything to be worried over, having it active all the time, on every survivor, can get out of hand very fast. Nobody knows where anybody is or where they’re getting downed from, and if the killer can continue to apply considerable pressure, your team will be scrambling for the totem faster than Ruin. But the issue here is how long it can take to get to that point. Finding all four survivors and being able to land a basic attack on them at least once can be a feat, especially if you’re up against really good loopers. And remember, this is a Hex perk. You’re lucky if the totem lasts a minute in a lot of matches. Even with Blindness, survivors still have many ways to play around it. When you hook a survivor, Blindness does stop others from seeing them...after the fact. But when a survivor gets hooked, there’s a special bubble that pops up for a few seconds and then disappears. And since every survivor with functioning ears and eyes can see and hear when a survivor is hooked, hiding that aura will only delay them for so long, and might only be effective if you’re somehow sending every survivor into a panic. But perhaps worst of all is that Blindness is almost completely nullified by the existence of voice coms. It doesn’t matter how many survivors you inflict Blindness on, if they’re communicating through Discord or other such means, you are completely wasting your time with this perk. Now the perks in Dead by Daylight weren’t designed with that fact in mind, but the truth remains.
So how do we make the most out of this perk? Once again, we’re operating under the assumption that the Hex totem lasts long enough to inflict Blindness on most of the survivors, but not all of them. How do we make sure this effect lasts long enough to make a difference? To do this, we’ll need to employ the strategy that Third Seal was designed for: slugging. Will you get nasty comments in the post game chat? Yeah, probably, but keep in mind that slugging is a universal method of creating pressure, and a survivor on the ground basically can’t do anything. A Killer’s time is far more precious than that of the survivors, and they have to give themselves breathing room whenever possible. If you go around hooking every survivor after you down them, you will not stop the generators from being finished. So what perks work well with Third Seal? It’s pretty simple actually, we need a perk that simulates the entire team having Blindness but not quite. More precisely, Knock Out. Knock Out is a very unpleasant perk to be hit by, but the idea here is that since the survivor we downed with a basic attack is blind, and Knock Out hides the survivor until someone is within 16m, they’re going to be there for a while. This helps to potentially land a hit on all four survivors so you can get the full effect of Third Seal. Sloppy Butcher along with Coulrophobia are also perks to consider, as they are excellent slugging perks that help make sure survivors can’t pick up others quite as quickly. I might make a mini lesson about Coulrophobia going more into detail about the strategy to employ with it. Like with any Hex perk, Undying can be used to make sure your totem survives one cleansing, if you care about Third Seal that much. You can also potential run Third Seal along with a stronger Hex perk to sort of act as “bait”. Of course, it’s a 50/50 chance there, and it may draw more attention than it’s worth, but it can sometimes help to try. Finally, with an upcoming Hex perk, Plaything will work incredibly well with Third Seal, because not only will the survivors have to deal with Blindness, they also have to deal with the much more problematic status effect that is Oblivious. They won’t see or hear you coming now. In regards to Plaything, Blindness will stop the survivor from seeing their totem within 16m, so it’s a scary synergy if you can keep it protected for a while.
Closing thoughts, how do we make this perk better? I’ve mentioned before that the best way to make Hex perks better is to make totem placement better. Some of them are fine, but they should not be placed near generators or out in the open, a survivor should have to actively be looking for them to discover them, in my opinion. This is what I would say for Blood Favor as well, so I’m saying it now so I don’t have to say it again. As for the perk itself, I still think Blindness is an underrated debuff. Any addons that inflict it for a duration are mostly not worth using, but permanent Blindness can easily get out of hand before you even realize what’s happening. That said, the perk only working on basic attacks is a little too restrictive for a perk with a rather underwhelming effect. Third Seal actually used to work on killer powers long ago, I say it should be reverted back to that. Hey, if Hysteria and Eruption can work with killer powers, why not Third Seal? If you want a more threatening effect for the perk, don’t worry, that’s what Plaything is for. Perks are meant to be used together after all. If anyone has any ideas for any extra effects Third Seal should have, let me know. Thank you for coming to my lesson, see you next class!
Third seal is really really good at what it does, the fact that it's a perk that requires a basic attack is why it's not good.
Apply it to any effect the killer gives the survivor(including the cursed status effect), and it would be so much more powerful. It's not that powerful in a SWF, but absolutely terrifying for Solo's.
Third Seal is my favourite hex, but also by far the hardest that is to apply to cause chaos. Even harder than Blood Favour as 1 working Blood Favour can cause enough chaos for an entire team if even applied to 1 person.
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@Emeal said:
Would be better to make all addons/ Offerings viable.
But they are viable, you could easily run Blond Hair and Tacky Earrings and win games in red ranks.
Thing is, since there are 2 of the same type of addons in a higher tier, that are more viable is what makes these addons a bit worthless. Why would I ever run Blond Hair, if I have 20 Hair Bows left that have the exact same stalk requirement but lasts 3 times longer, and 35 hairbrushes doing the exact same thing? Why would I run Tacky Earrings, if both Jewellery and Jewellery Box are 2x and 3x more powerful and I have 100 and 40 respectively of each?
It's not about making the addons and offerings viable, because they are. It's that there is a consistent flow of things that are more viable that make these addons and offerings practically useless. So why force players to buy more items that will never see use, rather than making it forever available or give the player a way to sacrifice them outside of games. I could easily get rid of 500 grey addons on Myers, and still have plenty to always play those grey addons.
Because even if they make those grey addons more viable, you'd still have yellow, green and sometimes even purple addons that do essentially the exact same thing. There are only 2 addon slots, there is no way I could use all 3 of them consistently.
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@Seraphor said:
How are you not finding uses for brown medkits and charge/speed add-ons?
I pretty much only run brown medkits.
Yeah, my point is that I dont really have use for 35 of them. At least for the yellow medkits, I can run out(so many yellow addons for survivors), for the green ones, I can run out(thanks map offerings), for the purple ones, I can run out.
For grey/brown ones? I would literally have to not level my survivor to even get close to running out. I might aswell have an infinite amount of them. Let alone that this is on my main survivor, who I haven't leveled since last year's anniversary except for unlocking new perks. On survivors that I leveled recently, I have 100 of each brown item. That's 300.000 BP, that I am unlikely to use at all, since I have also 40 yellow medkits, 25 greens and 15 purple medkits. Let alone that I dont always run an item, because I dont really need items in the first place.
So the solution that's currently in game to get rid of that many items is to never open chests and to never level your survivor, while always equipping brown items, and then either dropping them on purpose before you leave, or die, for 200 games.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2462479#Comment_2462479
How exactly are perk tiers a coherent part of the design? Their only purpose is to increase the grind.
Nope, they were made the way they are because of a learning curve. It's why the devs find it so important that any effect can be split into 3 tiers.
Just because they are a pain in the ass if you play longer than 100 hours doesnt mean they lost their purpose. It's just basically that you're forced to go through a tutorial.
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@dweetmain said:
I'm a red ranked killer and when ever I get a game where the survivors all escape and I got like 6 hooks I get extremely sad and angry at myself which might just be me but regardless.
Does any body have any mental tips to visualize losses less negative in the mind to feel less bad!
Few things to consider:
- this game is partially designed to be frustrating, because you can redirect your frustration to a specific match and relieve said frustration
- remember that it's a multiplayer game with 2 teams, you're most likely already "winning" 60% of your matches, if not more. I have killers where I am good enough with to "win" 85% of my games with, if not more. The fact that you win so commonly is probably one of the reasons why you take losses so seriously
- during the game, start commenting on good plays survivors have made and on mistakes you've made(including dedicating to a chase too long, forgetting to use a perk properly(it's easy to forget on BBQ that you saw 2 survivors running towards the same gen on the other side of the map because you focussed on that 1 survivor who was already injured and quite close). It's much easier to end a game in a loss knowing you've been outplayed by a survivor being cheeky than it is to blame in-game mechanics.
- You can predict the way the match is going to end before it's actually going to end. I've said quite often "oh, this game is lost, I'm just gonna secure a kill then" once the 4th gen popped, regardless of my interaction with the game, and no one was dead yet. So I ended up tunneling the first survivor that was dead on hook(which at this point in the game, is considered fine, they have had 4 gens to run around freely) and the game ended up in a 3k because their teammates kept throwing themselves at me to save the 1 person who was dead on hook.
So TL;DR: This game is meant to be frustrating, it's multiplayer, you're already winning most of your games, find your own mistakes, compliment good plays and cast predictions on the end of the game.
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@Kebek said:
Yeah no, that basically never ever happens, at least compared to killer giving hatch.
When you meet competent SWF, they're there to make your game as miserable as possible most of the time or they'll just extremely efficient and just leave. Solos usually won't get results anywhere near crushing a killer.
I don't think I've seen a single survivor in almost 3,5k hours do that to me.
I mean, to be fair, unless you've been a rare killer to them that is actually memorable on the long run, they wont really have a reason to give you a sacrifice.
Why do you have to be rare to them? Because 0k's are already rare AF due to the nature of public matches. If 0k's were as common as 4k's, survivors sacrificing themselves in a similar way that a killer gives hatch would become much more common.
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@Junylar said:
Similar idea has been proposed countless times, along with the idea about removing perk tiers. Unfortunately, the devs don't care and don't intend to change anything about the grind.
Perk tiers are a coherent part of the design, the devs will never remove perk tiers.
1 of the solutions I have offered has been proposed quite often, which is why I added it because I think it's one of the best solutions that fits the lore of the entity perfectly. But other than players complaining about the grind in general, I decided to give a very concrete piece of evidence instead that explains why we want such a system. The other 2 solutions I have never really seen.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
This post is both for killer and survivor! What made you fall in love with the characters you main? Their perks? Their power? Or something more? I want to get some positive vibes going, lets talk about what made us adore the characters we main.
Survivor: Meg. To be fair, when I started playing, there were only 4 survivors, and Meg is the first I unlocked all the perks on. Right now I've added Cheryl and Felix to the mix where I have 3 survivors I can play pretty much whatever I want.
Killer: Doctor, he was the first killer to truly change the looping mechanics(you could argue Nurse, but there wasnt really any looping mechanics against Omega Nurse, just hail mary's). Myers ended up being my second killer to main, purely because he is one of the few killers with mechanics that will actually (jump)scare people. It's quite fun to see someone run into the corner of a wall because they threw their mouse away after a spook. Doesnt happen too often, but it's absolute gold when it does.
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First thing I suggest: stop running meta things. Meta builds will give your opponent the incentive to play a lot more sweaty just to keep up, especially if they dont run a full meta build.
Second thing: get creative, one of my favourite builds to run right now is Slippery Meat, Up The Ante, Second Wind and Autodidact. It's a challenge to use Autodidact to charge up Second Wind before your first hook so you can unhook yourself. None of it is a guarantee, but it's a lot of fun and an absolute gamechanger if you pull it off(also an absolute game changer if you do not pull it off). Up The Ante with Slippery Meat ensures you're able to unhook yourself about 70% of your games, giving it a lot of worth when you play an entire session.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I expect it... it's a killer not some... show host
I mean, the game doesnt reward you on killing. You can kill all 4 survivors that way and depip to green ranks.
So yeah, the killer is supposed to do more than just camp and tunnel. There are 3 other survivors he's supposed to kill.
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I mean, there are multiple aspects to it:
- when you're getting tunneled/camped
- the type of killer that is going for the tunnel/camp
- the perks your teammates are running
- the perks you yourself are running
- the location of the hook you're being tunneled/camped from
If the killer tunnels/camps you early, while you decided to not run DS and your teammate doesnt have BT either.
Camping during the EGC is always a nice challenge, do you take the safe route and give the killer a 1k or do you risk a potential 4k just to have a shot at a 0k.
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As far as I've understood map rotations:
They take 3 realms that get priority, these 3 realms are practically randomized every X hours. And they will be picked about 80% of the time(not 100% sure on this number, but excluding map offerings, 20% is high balling it and is due to map offerings interfering)
This means if Lery's, Hawkins, Gideon, Haddonfield, Dead Dawg, Ormond, Silent Hill or Raccoon City are on the rotation(especially if it's more than 1), you'll get the same exact map very commonly. If McMillan, Coldwind, Springwood or Autohaven is on the rotation, you have a lot more different maps in the rotation.
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@pizzavessel15 said:
I'm a rank 1 killer and I am tired of having to sweat, use certain killers, and use certain perks. I want to depip from rank 1 to at least 15 where its more chill, I can play around with other killers, and play around with more perks etc.. Could I be Banned for throwing games and depipping for this?
The most fun way of depipping:
Basement Bubba.
DBD devs have confirmed that since there is no official win or loss, you can decide what is a win or a loss. If to you, securing the item in the basement is a win, it's not bannable. If you lose the item, you lost. Any survivor entering the basement is fine untill they touch your precious chest, at which point any survivor trying to rescue the sinner will also be severely punished.
For the best success of this strategy, depip down to rank 5 or rank 9, then wait for rank reset.
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@dtavares7 said:
There's just so many ways for survivors to mess with the killer. The entire game as the killer you just feel like you're chasing a stupid carrot on a stick dangling infront of your head but you know you're never gonna get that carrot and that carrot is getting all the entertainment in the world
It's like the entire game is designed with the torturing of the killer in mind. The killer is just the plaything for 4 survivors who have ZERO fear of the killer whatsoever. That's the game at red ranks
The killer should never have survivors WILLINGLY run at him, that's a joke
The power dynamic is completely reversed past rank 5 honestly
No wonder survivor queue times are so long and all the red rank survivors constantly get matched up against purple and higher rank killers. It's because all or most of the red rank killers stop playing because IT'S. NOT. FUN.
"The killer is just the plaything for 4 survivors who have ZERO fear of the killer whatsoever."
You're expecting players, who have seen the same killer tactics to still be afraid? Even if the killer was capable of instadowning a survivor, there would be no fear.
And yes, survivors spending hours upon hours of time learning how to use their surroundings to survive as long as possible, and you expect chases to be as short as if you were facing yellow ranks?
You have to be creative to be a red rank killer.
"No wonder survivor queue times are so long and all the red rank survivors constantly get matched up against purple and higher rank killers. It's because all or most of the red rank killers stop playing because IT'S. NOT. FUN."
Also wrong, it 100% depends on when you play and if there are red rank killers willing to play. Right now, I happen to take a small break from killer because I've spend the last 1300 hours mainly playing killer and only playing survivor for archives. I'm still a rank 1 on both sides, I just get bored from winning killer matches that I didnt deserve to win. Plenty of times where 1 survivor makes a mistake, that punishes his entire team. Plenty of times of RNG not spawning in a pallet in an area that looks like it spawned a pallet, giving me a down in a dead zone where there absolutely should be a pallet available. Getting kills through means that are simply getting lame. Pinhead will revitalize my killer gameplay a bit, as I think he's very fun to play, but untill that day, I'm playing survivor, because even the highest red ranks will fall for perks like Deception.
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@Anara said:
Many people complain about gen speed since the rework, and ask for balance.
Imagine the game remain the same but there is 8 generators on the map instead of 7 and we have to do 6 generators to activate the exit gates.
Would it balance the game or make it worst ?
Gen speeds are not the issue, gen splits are.
Punish gen splitting. Make the game detect how many survivors are on seperate gens. If 3 survivors are on 3 generators, give them a 15% slowdown(same as 2 survivors working on 1 gen). It would slow gens from 80 seconds to nearly 100 seconds.
This makes a 2/1 split the new optimal strategy, the 2/1 split has always been the most fun strategy. Its fast enough to combat a tunneling killer if needed, but slow enough for killers to dedicate a bit longer to chase without being forced to give up a chase that was almost going to end.
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oof, those disgusting recharge addons
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@Luckyz17 said:
I am not sure what it is lately. But I end up queuing up not only with red ranked killers, as a yellow/green ranked survivor constantly, and when I say constantly, I mean.... every damn game (to give you perspective, im rank 12/13, they are rank 3/4). The matchmaking in this game is absolute trash and I don't understand. My fellow survivors are console, and usually tunnel vison down gens, get grabbed off of gens, or the killers straight slug all 4 in the beginning leaving the highest score to barely breach 10k.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6LGQK57SROX8/image.png
I dont get it....
3 possible reasons:
- player activity. If there are 20 red rank killers, but only 30 red rank survivors, there would be an average of 1.5 red rank survivor available for each red rank killer. Meaning the matchmaking has to start looking elsewhere. Now, if there are 45 purple ranks available. You would have a total of 75 survivors for 20 killers. Which is still too little. So 5 green ranks will be picked to compensate for those gaps. Now, if killer traffic is especially high, you'll have 30 red rank killers, with 30 red rank survivors and 45 purple ranks, now you'd need 45 green ranks too. But whoops, only 40 greenranks online right now. So the matchmaking needs to grab 5 yellow ranks. Add in premades(1 green rank teaming up with 1 red rank) and things get even more complicated from there on.
- SBMM. Not 100% certain on this, but we've had a week where matchmaking created matches of yellow ranks facing red rank survivors with a much higher consistency and seen those matches be quite beneficial for some. While some red rank survivors fared not so well against yellow rank killers. I've noticed that after SBMM, matchmaking has been kinda broken. So my guess is that matchmaking has been using information from the SBMM week to create matches.
- Premade SWF's. Matchmaking does consider SWF's to be better than solo survivors(for a good reason), so chances exist there was a SWF available. Combine this with reason 1 and 2, and you have a perfectly good explanation on how it's so bad.
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@Horror said:
Passive - Nemisis spawns with 3 zombies on the map. After a brief delay, a dead survivor will will turn into a zombie.
Changed - Zombies no longer grant mutation progress to Nemisis when he kills them. Instead, Hitting a zombie with Tentacle strike infects them with T virus , increasing their speed by 15%/20%/25% depending on mutation level.
Changed - zombies hit with pallets will be knocked down for 60 seconds (instead of respawning) but are not destroyed.
Tentacle strike
Range - 6 meters.
15 second cool down.
2 seconds self slow on missed Tentacle strikes.
Hitting a survivor with Tentacle strike infects them, causing the hindered status for 2 seconds. Also, the survivor will be inflicted with 1 of Blindness, Hemorrhage or Mangled at random until cured. Hitting an already infected survivor inflicts another debuff from the list they don't already have (but does not injury them)
At mutation level 2 the range of tentacle strike becomes 8 metres.
At mutation level 3 Tentacle strike Damages survivors ( Infected or not).
Hitting a healthy survivor with Tentacle strike gives 2 mutation points and an infected survivor gives 1 mutation point. Mutation Level 2 is achieved at 5 points and mutation level 3 is achieved at 10 points.
These changes make Nemisis's power always useful, be it hitting zombies to speed them up or hitting survivors to slow them down to punch.
Removing gaining mutation points from hitting zombies removes a boring part of game play.
Having a debuff be applied to survivors gives them extra incentive to use vacines.
Having more zombies spawn from dead survivors increases late game effectiveness.
Having his power do no damage until level 3 means he has a ramping power spike , from a pure utility ability to a powerful Ranged ability.
Having a 15 second cool down means there is counterplay. Dodge his tentacle and he will struggle to close the gap without his slow. Becoming an M1 killer temporarily.
This would solve most of the issues with Nemisis, namely, using his power being often a poor choice compared to just hitting them. Now you will do both and apply a debuff in the process.
Hope this is the right section x
3 zombies is a bit overkill though. Just spawn zombies based on map size: under average size=2 zombies. above average size: 3 zombies.
The rest, he's fine. The biggest issue is zombies being able to give survivors a speed boost, to which survivors can use a vaccine instantly and still have gained distance. So the simplest solution is for survivors to spend more time on using a vaccination. Right now, it takes only a tiny bit longer than Plague(opening the chest AND vaccinating), but unlike plague, you can collect the vaccine early on and use it when you need it most.
Just increase the times for vaccination to compensate for the speedboost so survivors cannot use a zombie to gain free distance(increase it from 3 seconds, to 8 seconds, and the total time to get vaccinated is 12 seconds, slows down the game also quite a bit more than the current 7 seconds excluding the time saved from survivors who vaccinate after a zombie boost)
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@lemonsway said:
Yes. It's absolutly fine, do gens, open gate and leave. Whoever dies, dies, at a moment you have to make a choice, the choice of saving someone, of going for a Totem or a chest or simply trolling the killer has a consequence, if that consequence is NOED then it's your fault, you should leave.
NOED only hurts bad survivors. I don't see any decent killer relying on NOED for a measily 1 camp kill...NOED just like any and all Hex Perks only works on beginer ranks, where survivors don't know anything, and they don't know anything cause the game's Tutorial is still trash after 2 updates, still doesn't show you totems, obsession mechanic, different vault speeds, doesn't teach common loops and how to loop, etc,etc, i've written this in so manny damn posts it's riddiculous BHVR doesn't have a Tutorial for those basic core designs of the game. They made the Obsession a thing in all matches so killers wouldn't tunnel out of fear of DS cause DS creates an Obsession so if there wasn't an OBsession there wasn't DS and yet the tutorial doesn't explain the existence of teh Obsession Mechanic.
Funny survivors have to be bad, when NOED is RNG and the more totems you cleanse, the harder NOED is to find if it still triggers.
And no, I've faced plenty of high tier survivors who end up getting demolished by a hex perk, because they either underestimated the effect.
Also, no, the obsession is no longer created, and any obsession perk/addon created an obsession(STBFL, Furtive Chase, PWYF, Mettle of Man, Myers' addon, Wedding Ring, Blood Pact, For The People). DS was simply the most common perk to create one. Once they changed DS to the point where some players didnt care to run it anymore, there was no more obsession, leading to killers tunneling survivors out since there was no DS.
So it doesnt matter what the tutorial teaches. Totems are a side objective. In fact, chests are arguably more important to survivors as a side objective.