Predated
Predated
About
- Username
- Predated
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2918015#Comment_2918015
I have played against pre-Nerf Pinky Finger. I'd either drop a pallet early, or risk getting instadowned. In one case, I dodged 4-6 bottles, but went down anyway after he reloaded, but that probably wasted as much of his time as a normal chase without Pinky Finger. You don't realize how hard it is to hit survivors directly with a bottle, even when they're slowed. Where other people used the 2 extra bottles add-on in combination with Pinky Finger, I used Fingerless Parade Gloves for the bottle travel speed. His bottles really feel slow and clunky without that add-on, so I give props to any Clown who can direct hit survivors with the bottle even once. And it's a pink add-on, so why shouldn't it be strong with such a difficult activation condition for the Exposed?
It really wasnt that hard, maybe on console, but here's the combination:
- slow down survivor to close gap
- slow down survivor again to either force them into the open or close the gap
- try to hit the survivor, if you miss, they get slowed down anyway making it easier to hit
- hit the survivor.
That's it. Then slap on perks like Pop, Bamboozle, Enduring and NOED and just patrol the 3-gen region for free kills. You didnt really need to learn anything but hit bottles as Clown, so no good bottle shots to gain an advantage, no bottles to cut off survivors(well, a bit, but they didnt have to be good), no bottles on long distance to see if survivors are inside a certain area, just bottles on survivors.
Not a single map where you couldnt guarantee at least 2 kills. You could easily hook survivors faster than they could finish the gen, especially after toolboxes were nerfed. And if they somehow managed to finish the gen, well, 1 survivor would always be dead, so you'd just slow them down and hit them with NOED.
In "normal" play, pinky finger wasnt much of an issue, but it created scenario's that basically made it a free win for killer without much effort. That's always an issue. That's like bringing 1 medkit and being able to fully heal a survivor from dying state to full health when they are the only survivor that can be killed. That's like bringing 1 toolbox and instantly finishing a generator when you just hit spacebar. Old BNP wasnt always an issue, a lot of players used it to finish a gen when the killer was coming. It started becoming an issue when people used BNP at 0% of gens.
-
@danielmaster87 said:
It gets a little old, having killers, their perks, or their powers get nerfed or have a mass of suggestions calling for their nerfing. A lot of what people say is "X is too strong. It needs a drawback."
First of all, a lot of stuff already has drawbacks. Pop has a measly 45 seconds to be used, and Adrenaline Vial massively reduces your turn rate. But those aren't enough in people's eyes; no, they need to be nerfed again! I digress.
Secondly, why? Why should they have drawbacks? Killer powers are supposed to be meaningful and usable, something that they can't be if there's a drawback. Clown's yellow bottles can speed up the survivors, and Deathslinger's chain can be manipulated heavily and broken by the survivors. Killer perks and add-ons are supposed to straight-up improve the killer; they'd have to do that or there'd be no point in them. So you have add-ons like Pig's crouch add-ons, Trapper's disarm time add-ons, Wraith's uncloak speed add-ons. You also have various killer perks that may or may not be used in the meta. But the moment you give a killer a meaningful advantage in those add-ons or perks, people call for nerfs, especially via the introduction of drawbacks. And I'll tell you: that doesn't work.
We've seen countless ridiculous killer nerfs, clearly based around making the game easier for casual survivors, but made in the spirit of "fixing problematic aspects of the game." But as we've seen with many of those nerfs, they don't even nerf the part that people hated. You can still zone people out with Deathslinger, because guess what? His instascope wasn't the problem. You can still instadown people with Clown's Pinky Finger, because guess what? His bottle count wasn't the problem. You can still injure people with Engineer's Fang, because guess what? His number of chains wasn't the problem. All these nerfs have done is make killers' jobs harder, appease casual survivors, and irritate self-proclaimed competitive survivors because it wasn't "the right kind of nerf". The survivors who died and complained about these killer powers, perks, and add-ons are still doing so.
So you might say, "Drawback-based balancing can still work! We just need the RIGHT ones!" No. Nothing makes it work. Not only should these killer things, especially add-ons, be strong, they should also have no drawbacks. If the effect is so strong that it 'needs' a drawback, don't make it an add-on (or perk or killer power). Just don't do it, because it's not worth the hassle of this never-ending argument. We'll then start complaining that killer add-ons are generally weak, because the strong yet drawbacky ones would no longer be with us, but at least then we don't have to worry about stupid drawbacks. But back to the present, I have not seen one killer perk or add-on that has enough strength that it should require a drawback. Change around add-on rarities if you want, so that the stronger ones make more sense, but they don't need drawbacks. With a lot of these things that have drawbacks, and things that people want to have drawbacks, the drawbacks are so great that nobody even wants to use the thing. Let me give some examples.
Add-ons/perks that currently have drawbacks:
-Last Will (Pig): Increases the ambush attack speed, but increases the charge time.
-Trapper Sack (Trapper): Start with all traps on hand, but can't pick them up once set down.
-Ink Egg (Artist): Gives Artist an additional crow, but they disintegrate quicker.
-Deer Lung (Demogorgon): Increases portal travel speed, but decreases total portals by 2.
-Yakyoke Amulet (Spirit): Phase lasts longer and increases recovery rate, but decreases phasing speed by 15%.
-Iridescent Seal (Plague): When a gen gets done you get vile purge, but vile purge is 20 seconds shorter.
-Surge: Damages nearby generators, but it has to be with a basic attack, and there's a 40-second cooldown.
-Hex: Pentimento: Can relight hexes to create Pentimento, but only once each.
Highly requested drawbacks for add-ons/perks:
-Engineer's Fang (Pinhead): Shouldn't injure.
-Pinky Finger (Clown): Shouldn't expose.
-Flask of Bleach (Clown): Shouldn't slow so much.
-Pop: Should only last less than 45 seconds and be cancelled by Blast Mine.
-NOED: Should require hooks to gain exposed effect.
-Dead Man's Switch: Should last less than 45 seconds and shouldn't work on Artist.
The results we've seen from this kind of balancing have been bad, the proposed ideas using this same system have been worse, and the precedent it sets is very dangerous for the future of the game. If things that are "too strong" should have drawbacks, then we have to come to a consensus on what "too strong" is, and that's certainly not gonna happen. So people will continue wanting drawbacks on things that they deem strong, and the devs will give it to them, because they hate to disappoint, and the goalpost of that will continually move towards weaker add-ons. It seems crazy right now to suggest that "Windstorm needs a drawback" or "Fuming Mix Tape needs a drawback", but hey, those will be seen as too strong to some people, so they need that drawback. That's the direction this kind of drawback-based balancing takes us in. Doesn't matter the skill level of the people making the request, as long as it's popular and follows this easy-way-out system. It is, and will continue to be, disastrous.
Thing is, what you call a "drawback" isnt always a drawback. DH doesnt need a nerf/additional drawback because you get exhausted. Does that sound right to you? Then why nerf DH?
"Clowns yellow bottles speed up survivors" Yeah, but they are sped up less, let alone that survivors also get slowed down and can only medium vault windows when slowed down. Having both speed and slowdown would make Clown horrendous to play against, hence the "drawback" that survivors get sped up too(even though their boost is less than Clown). Let alone that Clown has had other drawbacks removed or reduced too. Adding one back in on top of being an additional tool that can be used in his advantage isnt really a drawback. Killers have to be fun to face too.
"Slingers chain can be manipulated heavily" not really, only if you actively move forwards as Slinger, any other direction and survivors would be lucky to get caught behind anything. "Survivors can break it too" well, yeah, everything with collision helps break the chain, thats not an additional drawback.
As for addons, that heavily depends on what they change. Because lets take Adrenaline Vial for example. It's only "drawback" is reducing turn rate, which isnt really an issue for a killer who can bounce into the nearest object and turn significantly. But then again, the old instaheal removed both addons and item entirely, that was a huge drawback, so what was the issue there, why did it need a nerf? Because the power was always beneficial compared to the drawback.
Just look at Yugioh for the basics of balancing. Pot of Greed, why is it banned in every tournament? Because it was basically a card you could put in your deck to reach the minimal amount of cards required, but pulling it means you can draw 2, so you could basically draw 3 cards and discard 1. In a game where 1 card can make the difference between a loss and a win, thats huge. So what is the reworked card? Pot of Desires, where you delete 10 random cards from play, only to draw 2 cards. People still use this card nearly as actively as Pot of Greed, because being able to draw 3 cards in 1 turn is just that powerful.
Now back to DBD, where 2% difference in speed can be the difference between a 10 second chase and a 40 second chase. Resillience and Spine Chill is often strong enough to make killers go for a swing that they will miss, and that's only reducing the time to vault by 0.3 seconds. And you're asking why any drawbacks at all?
The game you're asking for, is basically 2016 DBD, where nothing really had a drawback, you could use Sprintburst into a window, only to use Lithe to get a second burst while Sprintburst was 20 seconds away of being ready for use again.
Zoning out survivors wasnt the issue with Deathslinger, it was the fact that he could do it for free. Now he does it with a drawback. Let alone that Slinger could also guarantee a lot of hits that most killers simply couldnt without having a significant drawback(even Nurse would have a 3 second fatique AFTER the hit cooldown with the survivor being capable of adjusting plans last second to potentially dodge, Slinger could just aim/let go/aim/let go/aim/shoot/hit within 1.5 seconds and then have the hit cooldown, without the survivor being able to do anything about it. Slinger wasnt powerful, but once he was in range, it was harder to dodge a hit than a Nurse. That's simply consistently frustrating to play against. You do not want to create an opponent that can hit you without you having any chance to do anything about it. Because in that scenario, why even go for a loop at all? Why not just start hiding hardcore, making the game also super boring for Slinger. He probably would spend more time checking all the lockers than it takes him to reload with both reload addons and just quickscope you again. THAT was the issue. It wasnt the zoning, it was the fact that he could guarantee a hit without having any real downsides to it. You simply cant have that. That's like survivors being able to unhook in front of you without having any downsides to it.
And I agree that Clown's pinky finger wasnt changed correctly, but at the very least, the current nerf cannot have the Feather addon to spam 2 bottles and then guarantee an instadown. My guess is they altered it because it was easier for now(even though Clown has an addon that gives him 2 bottles, and a similar addon that caps the amount of inventory also exists, but ok), and my hope is they change it further that the instadown only applies to survivors who are not intoxicated at all, meaning you cant spam bottles to guarantee a down at all, but again, that's a whole different effect and requires a full rework, which requires more time, and pinky finger is used a lot less often because it cannot be combined with the Feather addon anymore to spam.
As for addon rarities, I rather keep the more useful addons common and the addons that require specific builds to be rarer thank you very much. Not all addons follow this logic, but more and more seem to do, which is nice. As for addons being too niche, yeah, I'd agree. While Mother's Helpers are very much in check with the lore for Billy, the pay-off you get for it is far too small. I dont neccesarily think the drawback is too much, since that addon is clearly designed around Spirit Fury and Enduring(which were common perks for Billy), its that the drawback outweighs the benefit too much.
Now, to your list of addons:
Last Will, its fine. Just giving her extra distance is going to be insane on a lot of loops, the drawback is needed just to add a risk to that gained distance. It's still a total increase.
Trapper Sack, even mains like Otz have stated that starting with all traps is insanely powerful, it absolutely needs a drawback, and not being able to pick up traps might sound super strict, but if you ever played with Trapper Sack, especially in combination with other addons, you'd know its not that big of a deal. You spend 0 time gathering traps, you can instantly create a perimeter thats insanely dangerous for survivors to take a wrong step and then you can simply harrass survivors into that zone. Where normally, Trapper tends to lose 3-4 gens before his traps start snowballing. Thats just 1 out of 2 addons, and not even taking perks into consideration.
Ink Egg, not really any downside to it, just forces you to play a bit smarter or launch your crows faster, and you'd get an entire additional crow.
Deer Lung, again, the kind of addon that has really nasty combinations with other addons and perks. The other drawback I would suggest instead of 2 portals removed is survivors being able to clear them 2-3x faster, which would harm him much more.
Yakuyoke Amulet is one of Spirit's strongest addons, it's drawback is non-existent when combined with Mother Daughter Ring.
Iri Seal is a bit more niche, but it also means 5 guaranteed pukes where you'd normally get 1. Combine it with Tinkerer, and you can charge a generator without being noticed and suddenly you have a free down, maybe multiple, in exchange for a gen, regardless if it lasted a shorter amount.
Surge is a bit of a weird one, and I feel like most of it is due to maps like The Game that are relatively small and could easily hit multiple gens in a row. You could have a Myers in T3 potentially activate Surge 3 times and regress all gens on the map. It's the kind of perk I like to use in my argument to change perk tiers into map tiers, where some downsides/upsides are only available on certain map sizes due to it being too strong/too weak on small or big maps. But that is a different discussion alltogether.
Pentimento is amazing, survivors waste 14(or more) seconds removing a totem only to create more for them to cleanse while slowing down gens with 6 stacks of Thanatophobia. The more totems you can relight, the stronger the initial effect gets. If you can place 4 totems, it would take survivors a minimal of 42 survivor seconds just to cleanse the totems, not taking in account the time it takes to retrace steps. Being able to keep relighting Pentimento would be extremely overpowered.
As for your "highly requested" section, which I tend to call paranoia BS for the most part:
Engineers Fang, no, I have only heard people request that it could also down survivors. Maybe the request to remove the injury was because it could be stacked with additional chains to the point where it was basically an instadown addon as Pinhead could vault through shack window before you could even reach the dropped pallet.
Pinky Finger, I havent ever seen that, maybe people requesting it to be reworked to not have an exposed status and instead an entirely different one, but I have seen similar requests to mine pop up very rarely, and I have seen that one 1000x more than people simply requesting the exposed status to be removed.
Flask of Bleach, probably the only one I have actually seen enough to be considered "highly requested". Clown already reduces movementspeed by 20% with his standard bottles, then he has a bottle to increase his own speed too. That's not even talking about how much easier it makes to hit Pinky Finger. Like I stated earlier, you want killers to still be fun. Flask of Bleach needs a rework. Personally, I'd rather have survivors have less visibility, which would overall work better in Clown's favor.
Pop, never really seen that one. The only thing I would change is to base it's regression on the amount of progression, like Boil Over does(oh look, another example of a perk that already had a downside, that wasnt "downsidey" enough, but weirdly not mentioned here).
NOED, I have seen that one, but not really highly requested. I've seen people suggest it to change it's activation method to be healthier. And one of those suggestions that are more common are indeed hooking everyone once for it to activate. But I have seen people request a full on rework more. I have seen people ask about NOED being just invisible all game to the point that cleansing 5 totems is still the only guaranteed way to get rid of it, but that there is a chance for players to have cleansed NOED earlier in the game more often than hooking people to charge NOED.
DMS, well, yeah, it needs a change, especially because of Artist. Artist right now can basically camp a hook and block gens for 45 seconds by spamming crows. Thats a free hookstate with 0 progression. Personally, I'd say it should have 2 countdowns, 1 countdown of 25 seconds where any generator that is being let go gets locked up and any gen that does get locked up gets blocked for the remainder of the cooldown. That would actively reward killers chasing off survivors from gens. Right now, it's basically a Scourge Hook/Hex ability without being a one.
But anyway, here's a list of things that I have learned with your logic:
DS, didnt have any deactivation method, with your logic given, it should be reverted, right? It wasnt nerfed, only given drawbacks.
Exhaustion in general should be removed, no need to have 2 perks share the same cooldown for any reason.
Instaheals should come back, it already had drawbacks before.
2019 toolboxes definitely should return, nothing wrong with them, they would be used up and disappear, and with survivor BP gains, thats a huge cost.
Boil Over could be reverted, no issues there. Cant be anything that's too strong in niche scenario's right? If they bring Boil Over and RPD, that's simply them outplaying you.
Circle of Healing overlapping was not an issue at all, the drawback was already that you had to find totems in the first place.
I could go on and on and on. You're obviously biased in your assessment and just want killers to be stronger. But for what reason? Because it's the killer's job to kill and they shouldnt be given a drawback for trying to kill? Well, it's survivors job to escape and they shouldnt be given a drawback for trying to escape either, right? The killer should work on that. So lets remove window blockers there too, because it's only a drawback for using windows.
Funny how your logic brings us back to 2016 DBD where every veteran player will tell you that today's balance is healthier for both sides.
-
@OpenX said:
Sadako not being dumpster tier would have helped
Seeing what good players do with Sadako compared to what they can do with killers like Myers, Trapper and Clown without too much effort, pretty much is a huge counterclaim to her being dumpster tier.
She's heavily reliant on being the better mindgamer, which is actually refreshing, where other killers like Blight and Nurse often are brute force killers where survivors have to mindgame hard.
As for your points:
the grind (which they created); technically yes, but at the time of creation, DBD didnt have the expectation it has now. Fixing it isnt that simple, takes time and resources. Should they have looked in it earlier? Yeah, definitely, Pyramid Head was the last killer where it was somewhat fine, it should have been looked at from that moment. But before that? Not really that big of a grind.
tunneling meta (which they created); Nope, killers created it, you might claim there has been a lack of interest in fixing this meta, as perks arent really fixes, but BT and DS did have a big impact on that meta for a while.
half of killers being awful (which they created); Not all killers can be S-tier, half the killers arent awful, they simply are not gonna be capable of facing S-tier survivors. If all killers were equally good, then all survivors you face should be equally capable of countering those killers. Thats not really the case. The healthiest balance is a bell-curve. The current balance is close to a bell-curve. It's not neccesarily the killers being awful, its survivors you face being too good for the killer you're playing.
toxicity (which they created); You cannot create toxicity
MMR(which they created); Yeah, but its being worked on.
Meta being the same for five years(which they created); Objectively wrong, because there was a camping meta, a tunneling meta, a chasing meta and a genpatrol meta. That's just the killer side. Then there was a long loop meta, short loop meta, healing meta, genrush meta and even a flashlight meta. The meta has switched a lot, it just bounces between a tunnel meta and a gen regression meta right now depending on whether there are killers who can tunnel hard or not(if killers get nerfed, its often due to their massive power to tunnel).
lack of variety (which they created); There is a huge amount of variety, but that variety wont be used in higher MMR, even if all current meta perks are nerfed. Thing is, once there is a "best build" for a certain killer, that build will practically be static and only really vary with different addons. Same would be for a best build for solo surv, or a best build for SWF. There might be slight variance between certain combinations, but there is always going to be a list of 24 perks(out of 100) that would practically cover all possible strong combinations.
So out of all your points, 1 is fully legit, but being worked on, 1 that is semi-legit, but only because the game lived to be 5 years in the first place, the rest is what the players have created with the tools that the devs have given. Are those tools perfect? No, but thats more because the players are like toddlers. They run around with scissors, stabbing hundreds of people while laughing their asses off only to be stabbed by another toddler with scissors and then crying that that one toddler shouldnt be running with scissors.
-
@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911952#Comment_2911952
By setting it just before the grade reset, we gave people as much time as possible to separate. The people who play the most would end up further away from the people who play the least. This is important because under the grade system, grades reset all the way back to 20 whereas ranks would only reset one colour tier. Setting it two weeks into a reset would give people a lot less time to spread out and more than likely end up with the vast majority of players within the silver-gold range.
We could debate whether or not that's the worse time all day, but ultimately that's impossible to say. Under the old rank system rules, that would probably be true, given that players weren't reset that far back and will have a much easier time climbing a few ranks. However, since everyone's starting at 20, that's a much different story. The average person does not reach iridescent ranks each month.
In any case, even with different timing, this still would not be a conclusive test. You cannot switch it on for 1-2 days and get definitive results. A system like that takes longer for people to settle where they're supposed to be.
Have you guys considered testing it over the course of a couple of months? Not the entire time, but 1-2 days twice a season at random intervals? Or maybe having that as a standard at the end of each month, having 28 days of SBMM and 2 days of grade based matchmaking? While its important for matchmaking to be accurate, especially for newer players, it would be nice for long-term players to have 2 days of basically playing in a pool.
-
@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911964#Comment_2911964
Hence the need to make pipping stricter. I dont think an analogy to another game is valid,DBD's very unique as an asym,so idk about comparing it to overwatch, You should be able to lose a "grade/rank" or whatever for the system to work remotely okay.
The comparison was simply to counter your "people cannot lose their grade, thats bad" argument. When the obvious answer is "people cant get higher as easily too". Because Day 1, you'd share the rank with people who are much, much better than you, they will pretty much soar to iri ranks within the first 3 days. Day 4 is when you start to be able to climb a bit, but each time you climb is still facing good players who started a bit later. It's not untill the middle of the grade season that you can pip consistently, untill you start facing better players again nearing the end of it all. Its going to be more difficult to pip by the sheer fact that you'd consistently be facing better players. The old matchmaking system didnt really prevent that, because if you were rank 4 by the end of the month, you'd still face red rank players the entirety of the next month.
As for making pipping stricter, no, maybe for killers, but overall no. For survivors to even gain a single pip can be utterly impossible even if they are objectively the best player in the game. An extreme example is the following: Your teammate runs Bubba for 4 gens before they get downed. You've aided a bit to help extend the chase, but you and your teammates also needed to remove totems and do gens. Totems and gens are just for lightbringer. Your teammate dies on the hook, with iri chaser and iri lightbringer(teammates doing gens and totems also counts to the survivor in chase), no pip. You and the other 2 escape, with iri lightbringer, iri survivor but thats pretty much it, no pips. This is already true in gold grading, in iri grading you might even lose a pip.
Pipping doesnt need to be stricter, it needs to be more accurate to represent the match. It's fine-ish for killers, you tend to get -1 pip if 3 people are able to escape, you tend to get +1 pip or more when 3 people are killed. There are some killers that have it a bit easier, and those would need changing as they could get pips relatively easily even if they dont kill anyone(looking at you, legion, wraith and ghostface), but for survivors, they kinda need to be more evenly distributed.
All in all, while the argument for pipping is a relevant one(it always has been, even before SBMM, just like survivor bp potential in matches), I dont think its necessarily an issue for the current course of events.
-
@kizuati said:
Here's a simple thing to think about - you CANNOT lose a grade,compared to a rank. Thus making a test late in the Grade season allows everyone to slowly flow up regardless of their real pip tally up because you cant lose a grade.
Hence it being much worse than old ranked. Please reconsider.
I would kinda disagree here, the old rank based match making was arguably worse, because sure, a red rank would be a red rank consistently, but you can reach red rank within your first 20 hours of the game. Now you're 20 hours in and will consistently face people who have 1000+ hours.
The current "reworked" system works better because it will be harder to earn grades unless you're actively performing well in the game. You wouldnt really start facing people who are far outside your skill comfortzone untill the end of the month.
The fact that your grade gets reset back to the start, and good players earning grades much faster than people who arent as good, it's not really that bad.
Let alone that in games like Overwatch and League of Legends, you wont really lose a rank once you've gained it. Going from silver 5 to silver 1 is easier than going from silver 5 to bronze 1. And that matchmaking hasnt really impacted games any worse than before when you could drop down from silver 5 to bronze 1 with just 1 or 2 games.
So by default, this matchmaking system is better than the old one, because the reset is more significant. It's basically the old system, but *better*
-
Wraiths Iri's do have some unexpected Synergy. Yeah, All Seeing Blood is better cus it gives Aura's, but being able to know what gens are being worked on and being able to silently approach is quite good too. You might be less accurate as Blood, but you do waste a lot less time patrolling gens too.
-
@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895271#Comment_2895271
When in a trial you have 4 DH, 4 yellow items full of add-ons, bodyblock, BT, DS and gen rush to a point that only Nurse could deal with those guys, yes it is toxic.
If i go in a fight against you with an assault rifle while you have a wood stick, i do not think you would find it non toxic.
And when infinites were in the game, was using them abusing something broken ? Yes it was.
Abusing META perks + items on 4 survivors, with the amount of safe loops/maps and the gen speed, it is abusing something broken.
So let me get it straight, you went in a fight against me with an assault rifle while I picked a wooden stick. I would have known that an assault rifle was possible, because weapons were allowed in the first place, then I decided to go with a stick. How are you possibly the toxic one for me making a decision I know is not gonna end up well for me?
As for when infinites were in the game, guess what else was in the game: Iri hatchets+infantry belt+1 hook Ebony Mori. There wasnt a single day where I didnt see a huntress run this, then proceed to proxy-camp. Was that not killers abusing something that was broken? Or Ruin+Undying(on release, not the current one) being spammed every single match. Undying was meant to give Hexes a second chance, not respawn hexes at full power. Was that not abusing something broken? Or Nurse with 5 blinks, increased recharge speed and Tinkerer, giving her 5 blinks and practically infinite blinks, allowing her to search the entire map within 20 seconds and downing survivors within 10 seconds on average(because how are you going to dodge 5 blinks?)
Not even talking about the amount of killers using Pain Resonance, Pop and Ruin together with Tinkerer. Or Blights using Alchemist Ring and Adrenaline Vial.
You see how all your complaints start breaking down when survivors have to consider facing that loadout? Again, Survivors do not know whether you pick a stick or an assault rifle. They simply have to come with an assault rifle incase their opponents come with an assault rifle, then you come with a stick and then cry that they picked an assault rifle and call them toxic for "daring" to assume you would pick an assault rifle, when 80% of their opponents pick the assault rifle.
-
@SuzuKR said:
I think your title should be less combative. I think using it to dodge attacks is good design and healthy. It can be baited. It being used for distance to a loop is unhealthy, which BHVR correctly realized. It cannot be baited. Not a survivor main. I play both sides evenly.
Using it for distance in a loop is healthy, but not in the way that current DH is. I am almost certain there was a version of DH where you were basically unable to vault or drop pallets because the animation lasted 1 second longer than the action. That is what DH currently needs. A short cooldown where you cant vault or drop things. You can still use it to gain distance in a loop or chase, but you'd have to use it 1 seconds before reaching the window. Right now, you can pretty much vault the window instantly so turning the corner for a DH to a window makes it near impossible to counterplay. Add 1 second, and survivors would need to use the DH against the wall before they turn the corner.
I think adding a similar effect that Doctor gives to survivors(where they are unable to drop pallets/vault windows/or even dead hard, from the start of their 1 second scream animation, to 1.5 seconds lingering) would fix DH without reworking it too much. It would have a much, MUCH higher risk(because what if the killer mindgamed you into DH to the window only to be on the opposite side? Or what if they made you think they went back only to suddenly be behind you, things that cannot happen with current DH) while keeping the current rewards.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Do you remember how much this perk was broken on SWF teams and BHVR did not nerf it for years. Because they said "OoO users are dying most times, this perk does not help them".
Just gold old days.
It wasnt actually the OoO users dying a lot. It was the average killrates in those matches often being higher than people expected. Which, in return, was due to killer players playing 10x more sweaty against OoO users than non-OoO users, but it wasnt about the individuals dying.
That's like saying old Ebony Mori's were fine, even though the only reason they were fine, was due to toolboxes being powerful enough to compensate for it.
I can make a whole list of things that were "fine" in the past. The original BNP that instafixed gens? 100% fine. Why? Ebony Mori's were applicable when you downed someone. Billy didnt have any pink addons, add old tinkerer and charge addons, and you can see why you basically needed the original BNP to even stand a chance. That doesnt mean BNP was fine.
-
@eaebree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895022#Comment_2895022
Sure all you complainig are just bad at game and that is full story you will never admit that.
And out of those 8 matches, how often did you let 2 or 3 teammates die to escape? How often of those 8 escapes did survivors actually win?
Escaping consistently isnt hard in solo queue, you just let your teammates die on hook when hatch can spawn, or leave through gate as soon as its powered. But claiming that you're good because you escape by sacrificing multiple teammates isnt exactly skill.
That is exactly why survivor MMR needs to be teambased rather than escape based. Because is it really a win if 3 survivors died for your escape? No, ofcourse not. It's still 100x easier to escape 100 times in a row than it is to get a 3/4k in a row. But it is 20x harder to get a 3 man escape in a row compared to 3/4k's.
-
@AngyKiller said:
And on the same side of the coin; Survivors need to stop saying 'Be happy with the 3K' and shaming Killers who try for the 4.
Funny how it's always 'Killers need to stop'.
There is a bit of a difference between going for a 4k and slugging for a 4k tho. One takes actual skill in strategy, the other is a super cheesy way to guarantee 4 kills with 0 risk.
It's basically like old keys, survivors could finish the 5th gen after someone died, with basically a guarantueed 2 man escape and maybe a 3rd one if they played it well, or they could all hide untill someone found the hatch and guarantee the 3rd person escaping with 0 risk.
I am practically betting that the people who say "be happy with the 3k" did so because you slugged the 3rd survivor and then spend 3 minutes looking for the final one.
-
@SMitchell8 said:
Am I supposed to roll out a red carpet and stand + salute a survivor that has BT cover when they are saved from the hook during EGC? Had a survivor hooked just inside the doorway of Lery's, I chased a survivor out to the exit gates in demon dash, landing a hit near the edge, which she managed to squirm over the line, meanwhile the hooked survivor who was macroflashing all game gets saved and runs straight at me whilst I still had my power..... I knew exactly what was coming ..... I landed a demon smash and yep, BT. Didn't camp or tunnel, yet there's no counter to that play. Survivor showed there class by continuing to macro flash at the edge of the exit, whilst I'm standing there thinking well, I'm in my power, but im powerLESS.
Nothing should be uncounterable. BT imo shouldn't cover those hit by a killer power especially if they're x distance away from the hook.
Now lets consider this scenario: you've been hooked by a killer, its your first hook and noed spawns next to the hook. Shouldnt NOED deactivate then to make it more fair to the survivor? There is no chance to get rescued and escape after all.
-
@Malkhrim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2893684#Comment_2893684
Coldwind actually received layout changes. It made them even worse for killers. Cowshed is the most survivor-sided map in the game right now.
I mean, it always was the most survivor sided map in the game, but prior to the changes, the most survivor sided maps had a 60% escape rate, now it has a 53% escape rate. Thats going from an average 2.7 survivors escaping, to only 2.2 survivors escaping.
So it's less survivor sided.
-
@V1ntares said:
One of my friends gets really disturbed by the Onryo. He doesn´t have a phobia or some other mental health struggles but something about this killer really scares him. So I wondered what people with real phobias do, who also want to enjoy the game because not every killer bothers them.
To DbD community members with certain phobias killers can trigger like:
coulrophobia (fear of clowns / Clows), hypochondria (fear of illness / Plague), trypophobia (fear of bubbles / blight), emetophobia (fear of vomiting / Plague) and others or people who experience serious motion sickness because of clown´s blurring power - how do you deal with these killers if you get them in your game?
To everyone: would you think banning a/a certain amount of killers you don´t want to play against in the lobby would make your game experience better? For example if you don´t want to face nurses and spirits, you can just ban them as a team and don´t get in a lobby with a nurse/spirit player.
I would love if you share your experiences / thoughts with me!
I think you just have to deal with them, at best you can ask the devs to use a specific mod to help you out. There is plenty of mods available that dont alter the gameplay but do cover up certain issues. Like removing the bottle nausea effect in favor of even less vision(the nausea effect is meant to disorientate, literal blindness would be the closest compensation for such an effect), or removing Clown's make-up.
Now, mods are a very thin line between optimizing personal game experience and mechanics that are abusive. I really do think it would be nice if DBD added a filter for phobia's, but at the cost of something else. I think its quite fair for Plague's vomiting noises to be completely silent, so you dont hear it coming, nor do you hear it if you were playing the killer. And you could say that its unfair, but its practically impossible to change certain visual/audible designs without creating a massive benefit for people who dont have the phobia. It's one of the reasons why color blind mode took practically forever. Because how do you create a colorblind mode that doesnt give players without colorblindness a free perk? You cant really demand to see a doctors note. So you have to revisit all the important indicators and alter them in a way that cant be abused.
-
@Phasmamain said:
Thing is any boon besides COH will be useless in the completed gen area. As always this is a COH problem not a boon problem
Its actually more of a boon problem than a COH problem. CoH has all the negative sides of Self-Care being used by new survivors:
- slower heal speed than healing up with a team
- running to the far corners of the map to heal up
Sloppy Butcher alone practically fully negates 2 survivors healing up together or 1 survivor healing up alone, even with the current 75%.
Now, from my testing alone, CoH breaks the game in 2 scenario's:
- indoor maps(it's somewhat okay-ish on Lery's, but quite powerful)
- a group of 3 survivors healing up(because the 75% buff is applied twice).
Even for the 100% buff on CoH, this was mainly true. Indoor maps and 3 survivors grouping up simply broke it. The 50% version of CoH will still be broken in those scenario's.
Here's my suggestion for CoH:
- keep the 75% speed, BUT cap it per healing action, not per player. So self-healing is 0.75 charges per second, being healed up by 1 teammate is 1.75 charges per second and 2 teammates is 2.75 charges per second(it currently is 3.5 charges per second, which is too fast for a single healing perk)
- create a boon barrier inbetween floors on indoor maps, so that upstair boons do not affect downstairs and vice-versa.
- make boons check for sky accessibilty, if there is an open sky, keep the current range, if not, reduce the range to 16 meters.
This should fix practically all super powerful boon locations, even the Library boon in RPD since it's on the 3rd floor.
-
@Awkweird said:
First of all you shouldn't care if your MMR goes down. There is absolutely no reward for having a higher MMR, you only get tougher opponents. Also it's a magical value that no one sees.
Why do teams suffer because of the actions of a member of the team? That's a fact of life that BHVR can't change. If someone gives up, yeah you're gonna have a ######### time.
I mean, you kinda want MMR to go up for survivors who keep playing when there is a DC. They are often survivors who play altruistic and survivors you can use in your favor. The reason why high mmr killer is either super sweaty or super boring is because good survivors lose MMR due to stuff like this.
How to fix it? Well, multiple options:
- replace the DC'd survivor with a bot. Even if the bot is utter #########, its better than nothing.
- increase survivor repair speeds based on how many gens left, with increasing speeds per gen left, 0% with 1 gen left, 5% with 2 gens, 15% with 3 gens, 40% with 4 gens and 85% with 5 gens(also goes the opposite way, so if 1 gen is finished, they now have 40%, when 2 gens are finished, 15% etc etc, and no, it cannot be exploited since the killer already gained a kill without needing to hook, which automatically reduces survivor efficiency by up to 35%, if not more)
- at the very least, give each survivor full points in Survival so they gain 8k points just to compensate(doesnt count if the teammate was pre-made). It's already going to be a 8k game at best, so ending the game with 16k points would be the smallest compensation you can give.
-
@beatddb said:
Back before Nurse was nerfed, her fatigue looking at the ground was an okay mechanic to give survivors some room to manage playing against a killer that was obviously OP. However, she's been nerfed a while ago now, yet the mechanics that were made because of her power level are still there, why?
Post-nerf Nurse has 3 mechanics holding her back: 96% Movement speed, cooldown after blinks, and fatigue. Even though she's not as powerful as before.
I still think she's the best killer in the game, but spending 60% of a match walking at snail's pace and looking at the ground isn't a very pleasant experience. I think she should have her fatigue straight up removed, but have a 1-2s grace period where you can't blink, or have the fatigue but make her NOT look at the ground.
If Nurse loses Fatigue, then I want the BNP back from 1.5.3 just to be able to keep up.
@AngyKiller said:
Same reason D. Strike was buffed because of Enduring, then changed to ignore Enduring, and never nerfed back to normal; Survivors benefit. 🙃
I mean, lets check the nerfs:
- could be used instantly when grabbed, once per trial. Enduring was a strong counter, but no one really noticed.
- Same, but nerfed with 1 second, Enduring started to be known as a strong counter. It was pretty much equal to a pallet stun.
- Nerfed further, now needs a 35% filled wiggle meter to trigger
- Endurance was buffed, now 2x stronger stun reduction(due to a bug), making DS only a 2.5 second stun
- DS nerfed again, now only activates for 60 seconds when unhooked, also removed another second, meaning DS was only a 2.1 second stun.
- Enduring fixed to actually be 75%, making it 3.5x stronger than its original value, making DS only a 0.75 second stun and super easy for killers to tunnel out.
- DS reverted to its original 5 second time to compensate for Enduring alone
- DS nerfed again to deactivate when doing anything that progresses the game
So that's 1 buff and 7 nerfs. Let alone that a 3 second stun for tunneling is laughable.
-
@prion11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892309#Comment_2892309
It would be faster to list my non approved survivor slots as a killer than list the approved ones
- brand new part
- map offerings
- circle of healing
that's it, everything else is good and fair
Only Map offerings are an issue tho, and even that isnt really as much as an issue considering the MASSIVE amount of green items, addons and offerings survivors have. Any specific map offering for survivors is less common as an ebony mori. Killers can get 1 of every map offering before survivors statistically get 1 specific map offering.
Even 4x BNP isnt even close to most killer addons in terms of power. Toolboxes and Medkits heavily outweigh in consistent pressure(in fact, medkits need a nerf)
CoH needs a fix for indoor maps and 3 people, if it cuts off the sphere through roofs and floors, and caps the speed on healing action rather than buffing each individual survivor speed, it would be fine with the current speeds(75/75). Any other map its either quick to snuff or hard to reach.
-
@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2891471#Comment_2891471
No I need to say one good thing about him too.
I actually really love a lot about Tricksters design, truly a serial killer vibe who doesnt really have any monstrous reasons behind killing people other than really liking the sound of murder. His looks fit him perfectly to. But lore and looks are sadly the only things I like about Trickster. I really loved his old design, needed a bit of a buff, maybe a singular knife bounce basekit, but really nice otherwise.
-
@Mr_Madness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892363#Comment_2892363
You mentioned Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde so I mentioned the Blight which is based on those 2 characters.
Like really, what's your deal? If people can make memes of things that are 1% related I can mention something that is closely related.
Difference is, those people werent arguing in a different thread about it literally 5 seconds before. In fact, i'll stop here, since otherwise I would be a hypocrit for continuing to discussing extremely unrelated things in this thread.
-
@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892356#Comment_2892356
The only other way to do it with no add-ons is to use a third party program (lag flicking). I dunno what to tell you.
I mean, we play during a time where cheaters are concentrated in a small portion of the game, where people are willing to do so. So that could be, or people have found a way to override the animation somehow. Then again, it could also be DBD servers updating the killer turnrate and position but forgetting to also update the animation from time to time.
Either way, it's an issue that exists and makes it impossible to mindgame from a survivor POV.
-
@Mr_Madness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892352#Comment_2892352
Fun fact, Blight is based on Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde so it is related.
Not really, the thread was about the observer, and about a dual killer/survivor. Me mentioning Jekyll and Hyde to make that work isnt similar to the design of another killer. That's like a post going like "wouldnt it be nice if Pyramid Head was added for the 4th year anniversary" and me saying "yeah, that would be nice to have Silent Hill being added to the roster" and then you being like "cough cough Nurse cough cough" because we argued about Nurse in a completely different thread, then countering that logic with "fun fact, Nurse is based of the nurses from Silent Hill, so it is related".
No, its not, you know why you made that comment.
-
@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892249#Comment_2892249
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892278#Comment_2892278
Sorry, but the two of you are just plain wrong. It’s done by either pre-turning 90 and then flicking 90, or by flicking, M1 to reset turn cap, and flicking again during the M1. The first example is just a 90 flick, just facing a different way when starting the rush. The second example is an intentionally coded mechanic:
https://www.twitch.tv/mclean_yep/clip/AmorphousFaithfulKleeTheTarFu-jPzbiLNS-Dku-899
The first part of this video is talking about J-flicking, an old exploit where super high DPI was able to break the 90 frame turn cap in a single frame, which was fixed. You cannot go past 90 in a single frame anymore. You either pre-turn, or flick, attack, and flick again in the new frame, since it is 90 per frame. And mindgaming it involves just putting yourself where he is not. If you think he's going for a 180 flick around something, don't be there, take a different direction. If you read him right, you evade the hit. If you didn't, you get hit. That's how mindgames work.
Thing is, you can visually see the difference between 2 90 degree flicks, and the difference between a flick turned into an m1. Yet, I've still seen people do greater than 90 degree flicks without visual confirmation consistently.
-
@Mr_Madness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892306#Comment_2892306
Cough
BlightCoughSorry, I must have a cold.
Oh, I am sorry, for your cold
@MandyTalk could you help this fellow out and keep his cold in the correct thread rather than spreading it in unrelated ones? Thanks <3
-
@Mr_Madness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892283#Comment_2892283
Blight is not even an issue lol.
Many ways to avoid this so called "Exploit". For crying out loud IT"s HIS POWER!
Gonna say Myers is op because he can Insta down anyone or Mori someone with a tombstone? It's a ridiculous argument.
Wanna have a Nerf like Deathslinger to make him less fun and have less players play him?
Main point, Blight requires skill and only issue is making your DPI or Mouse overclocked to make those sharp hits so if anything its about using a mouse.
Before you make yourself look like an idiot, I will quote the literal second sentence of the post "can you please nerf that 180 corner hit????".
Note how I also stated that flicks up to 120 degrees(with addons) are not the issue, nor are 90 degree flicks. It's flicks that are higher than 90 degrees without addons that are the issue.
And no, that super sharp hit can be done on console too. But either way, it would not be about using a mouse, because if that were true, it can be patched out.
-
@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892230#Comment_2892230
I'd love to see your data for those figures on the hex destroyed time, can you please link the source?
The first one is easy, as you'd need both effects of Counterforce and Leader while spawning next to the hex. As for the other 2, I mean, thats simply averages of experience. I've played 3.5k hours, 2k of those being killer, the amount of times I have been able to get at least 3 stacks of Devour Hope has been more common than Devour Hope getting cleansed before I get 3 stacks. Me getting 5 stacks of Devour Hope and murdering someone has been more common than me getting 1 stack or less.
You feeling like every match you use a hex is gonna get them destroyed is a placebo effect. You dont equip hexes often enough to use your data as factual. It's actually more likely to lose a hex within the first minute if you rarely equip a hex. The more often you equip a hex, the ratio will even out.
Learn how to play with 2-3 perks, build around 2-3 perks, use any hex as the 4th perk, record your matches and start noting down when your hex was destroyed and add context(like, were you having the upperhand, or did survivors get enough time to relax and look for totems?).
-
@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892172#Comment_2892172
Don't get hung up on the self care analogy.
COH provides the ability to heal yourself without assistance, the whole point of survivor is cooperation if everyone can just heal up for free without needing an item or a team mate, and still bring 4x chase perks and a tool box with a BNP all because 1 guy has COH its a lil unbalanced.
Botany knowledge still requires a team mate or a medkit, if you want to pair it with selfcare for team wide healing then you gotta eat up half the available perk slots for it.
Team wide self heal without needing an item for 1 of 16 perks is a really good general trade. Because most killers aren't applying "tournament" level pressure. Toning down COH in a general game sense is not an unhealthy change given what it can do for what it costs.
Here's why everyone is wrong about CoH tho:
Lets compare it to a PERKLESS swf on comms. What does CoH do that SWF on comms cannot? Or even better, what can SWF on comms do better WITH CoH than without?
Because CoH cannot meet up with you next to an important gen, CoH cannot guarantee you being healed up. In fact, CoH gets in the way because a survivor cannot bring the killer too close to you.
So, if CoH is barely usable for SWF on comms to the point where Botany Knowledge or even Empathic Connection gains 10x the amount of value, then how is it busted?
CoH is only very powerfull when comms arent involved. It basically buffs solo queue closer to SWF. And this change is needed. The gap between solo queue deaths and SWF deaths is incredibly large. And you cant really nerf SWF. Boons reduce that gap significantly.
This is exactly why I get hung up with the analogy, because people are like "its a 5th perk". Like, is each totem of Pentimento an individual hexperk? With your logic it must be. Because 1 totem is slowing down gens as if you have 6 stacks of Thana. 2 totems is slowing down healing as if you have global Sloppyx2, 3 totems is also reducing self-recovery, 4 totems is slowing down exit gates as if you had 7 stacks of Remember Me. Or Devour Hope, 3 stacks give you an instadown as if you have NOED on and the 5th stack is as if you had the 0.9 version of Ebony Mori. All while gaining movementspeed whenever you hook someone.
Boons are much, much weaker than the effects of those hexes, especially since you need to spend a significant amount of blessing a totem uninterrupted, unsnuffed for long enough to lower the average timesink you spend on blessing and preferably used enough to gain time. You want the average blessing time per heal to be about 4 seconds pre-nerf, which means you need to heal at least 4 times.
Now, when do boons break the game? On indoor maps and when 3 people heal. Neither of those issues are fixed.
-
@fussy said:
Firstly it was 16 seconds to selfheal, now it will take 21 seconds. Do you guys really think this will affect the problems CoH has? Spoiler alert: No.
The survivors still have a perk that makes the WHOLE MECHANIC in the game free without requiring anything in return. And not even for me, but for the WHOLE TEAM. I don't need a medkit to be healthy. I don't need to look for a teammate. I don't need a selfcareer that takes a perk slot. I just take one perk and the whole team doesn't need anything of the it at all.
3 extra seconds does not solve this issue. Yeah, it's better than nothing, but it's not the way it should be
Lets play a little game of: "Can SWF on comms do it better?"
Search a teammate? Faster than a survivor can run to a totem, in fact, I can be guaranteed next to a gen, the totem doesnt guarantee that
Heal up? Faster than a survivor can do at a totem
What if a SWF brings CoH? Only an issue on indoor maps, any other map and Botany Knowledge is better.
Seems like CoH isnt the issue, indoor maps are.
-
@prion11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2891882#Comment_2891882
What's the official list of survivor approved, gold star killers? Trying to see if I measure up to their standards lol
I mean, what is the official list of killer approved, gold star survivor slots? Medkits, toolboxes, flashlights and even keys are disliked. So only maps, but not Rainbow maps. Then preferably only the duration addons. Maybe Streetwise and Built to Last to increase duration, but only if they carry maps, because if they find a commodius through Luck, that's too OP.
Killer mains are just as entitled as survivor mains.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2770351#Comment_2770351
Now THAT would be cool! A killer and a survivor using similar models and it's actually two facets of the same personality battling each other.
It could basically be Jekyll and Hyde(now that I think about it, the observer could be named Dr Jekyll, sadly the survivor name is already leaked)
-
@SS007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2876332#Comment_2876332
Are you serious ? the ace didn't even use his flashlight to save anyone he just followed me around and clicked the flashlight into my face and near me till it ran out . The amount of toxic moves these 2 players did is just too much for my mental health.
Being toxic is a choice just play the damn game if you escape good for you , you're a good survivor but don't bully killers every second.
What's funny is that * strategy * ends the moment you open that exit gate but they didn't want to leave so to avoid tea bagging I just moved away from the exit gates and waited them to leave but they chased me and forced me to chase them to the exit gate and every second of it they did toxic moves and what's even worst the post game chat..
Simple, he tried to get your attention or distract you using the flashlight, and you fell for it. Should survivors be healed up if you moonwalked a loop to get a hit in? I mean, they are the ones who fell for it, but "its really toxic". See how that doesnt really logic well? They taunted, you fell for their taunt, then you called them toxic for taunting. Taunting has been a strategy ever since the first wars. Court Jesters literally did nothing but taunt the enemy in medieval wars. Were court jesters toxic? No, they saved many lives of their own people by making the enemy less focused due to the taunting.
As for teabagging in the exit gate, yeah, I have asked the devs if they could make the exit gate a bit less safe so that survivors have reasons to leave or you have a chance of downing and hooking them, however small that chance is. But on the other end of the perspective, survivors are at the risk of dying on hook the entire game and dont have time to stand still without risking a hit all game, the exit gate is the only moment they can.
It's like asking the devs to make it impossible for killers to camp early game, since it can be considered toxic.
The only actual toxic moments in the game are the following:
- Trapper, Trickster, Huntress, Slinger, Cenobite, Hag, Ghostface, Piggy, Plague, Clown, Doc, Pyramid Head and Nemesis constantly using their M2 on you when you are the final survivor who is slugged and not being hooked in the meantime(aka, killers spending 4 minutes of you being unable to do anything), then picking you up last second to hook you as far away as possible.
- Killers shishkebabbing(m1/m2ing survivors) while they are on the hook.
- Survivors clicking and tbagging in the exitgate. Just the exitgate, nowhere else.
Any other scenario, and there is something you can do to prevent it.
-
@Mr_Madness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892179#Comment_2892179
If you mean "Exploit" you mean the functionality of a killer that has been base kit for over a year?
Just laughable seeing people calling Blight trash when he first came out and now everyone is saying his power is an exploit Imao.
So, working on a gen with old DS not deactivating wasnt an exploit of DS? It wasnt addressed for years after all. Pallet vacuums in 2017 wasnt an exploit? It was basekit mechanics for more than a year afterall. Oh, or saboteur permanently removing hooks from games not being an exploit because it was part of the perk for easily 6 months?
And no, I was actually one of the few people to say Blight had S-tier potential. And his power isnt an exploit, its certain functions related to his ability that can be exploited that are not intended.
The thing is, the exploit isnt as gamebreaking to be prioritized over other mechanics. The Nurse bugfix was a higher priority than Alchemist Ring, for example, even though Alchemist Ring has been in dire need of a nerf ever since Blight was released. There simply isnt enough people working at BHVR to move Blight higher up in the priority list.
Mark my words tho, the exploit will be removed, hopefully at the same time Alchemist Ring gets nerfed too.
-
@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892179#Comment_2892179
First of all, the creator of Blight literally made flicking like that an intended feature.
Second of all, it can be mindgamed, which is what you are supposed to be doing anyways.
"Slam:
- Minimum Angle of Attack: 45 °
- This refers to the minimum Angle at which The Blight must hit an obstacle's hitbox to initiate a Slam, otherwise he will slide past it.
"
This can be exploited by looking up or down. Just to add it in, since this is another exploit on Blight that was even abusable on super close corners which should be Blight's weakest position, not his strongest. That's like giving Nurse aura reading through walls or giving her 3 blinks basekit.
The original flick was made 180 degrees, at which point it was decided it was too powerful and lowered to 90 degrees. Now there should be a max of 120 degrees with 2 addons. Doing 100 degrees+ flicks with no addons is not intended and will (eventually) be patched.
And no, it cannot be mindgamed unless you know what the blight is doing. Newsflash, you wont as flicking doesnt have a different visual effect. Oni's flick DOES have different visuals since his head moves with the camera, Blight doesnt.
If a flick needs things that can
- Minimum Angle of Attack: 45 °
-
@Nicholas said:
The only issue is that killers will circumvent the 10 seconds, and just leave at 8 to 9 seconds and then come back. It definitely needs to eliminate the other survivor requirement but not sure how to trigger the pause. But then again, does the pause really need a trigger? What if it just worked?
You can simply add the clause that the timer is cumulative and doesnt drop untill the killer has left the hook by 24 meters. Meaning if you stood within 16 meters for 9 seconds and get out, but remain in the 24 meters, and then get back, it would still trigger.
As for the pause needing a trigger, yeah, it absolutely does.
Personally, I would rework Kinship like this:
When both a survivor and a killer are within 16 meters of the hook: pauses the timer for 34 seconds and gives all survivors a notification where the killer is standing.
Secondary effect: if a killer is within 16 meters of your hook, show the perk icon to other survivors to let them know.
-
@MilManson said:
3rd person view counters tinkerer and also sound.
It doesnt counter Tinkerer's sound notification to the killer, which is the biggest issue with Tinkerer. There is no way to finish any gen without the killer knowing about it.
@sizzlingmario4 said:
I'd be fine with tinkerer having a cooldown on activations on the same gen, but limiting it to once per gen is too much. The perk only really shines with ruin/undying or other slowdowns and by itself it's honestly not even that good.
Technician does need a buff, but suppressing perks like tinkerer isn't the way to go.
Once per gen is still really danm good. It simply removes the ability for Blights and Nurses to basically kill a survivor with 4 or 5 gens left, dedicating time to rush out 1 survivor should be "punished" with the removal of at least 3 gens. Often gens that are far away from the action, meaning the area of the map that requires your presence as a killer is significantly reduced. Meaning you can prevent gens from reaching 70% for practically 10 minutes since 1 survivor is already dead, at which point, Tinkerer would have a ton of value.
And yeah, Tinkerer needs to be suppressed. The only other way is to make it's activation exclusive to Pop and Ruin. Or maybe token based where each hook gains you 1 Tinkerer token(which is much, much worse than the once per gen clause, even if you can theoretically use it twice as much).
-
@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2888138#Comment_2888138
How many Hex is destroyed in the first 12 seconds of a game? At least the Boon's spot can be chosen.
I'd rather give one gen free to the survivors than having boons in a game.
On average? 1 every 10000000 games is a hex destroyed in the first 12 seconds of the game.
The first minute? Maybe once every 50 games.
The first 3 minutes? About once every 3 games.
Difference is, Hexes are 100% beneficial. You dont need to waste time to place them, they take time to destroy, time that could have been spend to fix 1/7th of a gen instead. Killers do not need perks to win chases, killers do not need perks to hook survivors. Killer perks are mainly designed around either lowering average chase time, or increasing the time it takes to fix gens. Any secondary effect that perks have is simply to spice up the gameplay a bit.
Boons? They are a side quest for survivors. Sure, the spot can be chosen, but here's a few things to consider:
- how close is that spot to the active spot on the map? You want it to be as close as possible to waste as little time as possible running back and forth. The more time is needed, the more pressure the killer can build up.
- how easily can a killer reach it, it might be close to the active spot to be hugely beneficial, but very easily snuffed by the killer, making the placement of the boon itself a waste of time.
There are 3 maps that negate these downsides: RPD(especially the library totem), Midwich, The Game. Funnily enough, these maps are all indoor maps with totems spread on multiple levels and few access points to those locations.
It's not boons that are the problem, its boons on indoor maps that are.
-
@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890035#Comment_2890035
No giving a perk that has both distance and Iframes is a problem. Not only does it allow Survivors to correct big mistakes they make they can gain distance but the killer can't do anything to them while gaining that distance while the animation is going on. While SB gives distance but a skilled ranged killer can still get a hit or two in.
That's why the Devs are looking at DH because players are using it more for distance than Iframes. DH is the only exhaustion perk with new negative side effects as some of the others.....SB can't run or you activate it, BL if you fall too far it activated, Lithe slow vault or you accidentally activate it. DH you have the choice when to use it and not worried about it activating when you don't want too.
Its not distance and i-frames. All other exhaustion perks, including Head-On, gives you at least a 30 meter distance gain. Dead Hard only gives you 2 meters distance.
As for SB, well, a skilled survivor could easily dodge the ranged killer.
The problem with DH is that it's too easy to use for it's reward. It's basically like pre-hex NOED. You just slapped it on together with old Unrelenting, and you could spam Lunge to gain distance on survivors after the final gen was done.
And I dont even know how to properly touch up DH. On one end, you want survivors to be able to use DH for unhooks and flashlight saves, meaning they would need to be able to use it at the press of a button. On another end, you want survivors to not use DH in a way that makes them use an unsafe pallet as if it were a safe pallet. I would extremely dislike the change if I couldnt use an exhaustion perk to rescue a teammate, but I would also dislike it if the pallet issue wasnt change.
I think the only way to fix DH is to give it a token system based on what killer it is. Unknown which token is used from the survivor perspective, but if its a Nurse, DH can stay the way it is now, 0 issues. If it's a Trapper, make DH use up traps so Trapper can follow suit. If it's a Myers, make DH refresh the personal stalk meter so that Myers can stalk more, etc.
-
@nostrada96ass said:
right now too advantageous for survivors who can run while looking back
at least it takes a bit of skill to run incourse looking backwards without losing momentum in fps
not in tps, so there big difference between killer and survivor skill cap
and another reason why finding survivors quickly with most wm1s is meaningless is that survivors can destroy game on a safe course from structures
this is the reason why the unsafe pyramid or crow's ability attack is more effective than the skillful "mind game"
also avoiding sight of strong killers is more difficult and has more meaningful results when its failed
Looking backwards can be very disadvantageous to survivors too. There is a reason why there are random branches and random planks sticking out of loops, so you can get stuck on it.
-
@Nos37 said:
When a survivor successfully sabotages a hook, the Entity should block the nearest 2 or 3 hooks, preventing them from being sabotaged as well.
The current state of mass sabotage is ridiculous. I literally just quit a match because I would rather wait out the penalty than stay in a stalled game that has very little counterplay.
"has very little counterplay" -> drop the survivor you're carrying for 30 seconds near the hook that was sabo'd most recently, then hook again. It's really not difficult. Let alone that you can fake going to 1 hook and then quickly turn around too.
-
@Mr_Madness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2891855#Comment_2891855
Have you ever tried playing Blight?
Just because an exploit is relatively hard to learn doesnt make it any less of an exploit. Clairvoyance was very hard to learn to exploit with, and that exploit was one of the few reasons why the perk was actually good in comparison to things like Detective's Hunch, for example. It wasnt even an amazing exploit either and actually very easy to counter too. Oni's exploit is kinda easy to avoid too. Blight's exploit? Not really, if the Blight knows what they are doing, it's always a hit. Hence it needs to be fixed. I am assuming it will be (somewhat) fixed by the time they rework Alchemist Ring.
-
@pseudechis said:
The free self healing is the main prob of COH. Basically group wide self care for the cost of 1 perk slot.
It undermines the team work required by survivors, which invalidates hit and run play styles and reduces the threat of being injured all for one perk, and that's why its so unbalanced.
Boons themselves aren't a real problem its just all that COH can do on its own is th eproblem.
Since when do people complain about self-care? Self-care has been pretty much declared to be a killer perk since the start of DBD. Its too easy to heal up wrong.
CoH literally has all the bad things that makes self-care users lose games:
- you have to go to a specific spot of the map to heal up, which wastes a lot of time, time that could have been spend doing gens.
- sloppy butcher exists and instantly counters it quite hard, other mangled addons and perks have been added for quite some time.
Self-care was quite ######### unless paired with Botany Knowledge, at which point it was still mediocre. And self-care gives infinite heals WITHOUT needing to place a boon.
So, how is CoH an issue when Self-Care has been proven, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again to very easily be a waste of time to use? Every single time I see someone complain about CoH, its about how it's "infinite", but ignoring the amount of time survivors have wasted on simply placing one and healing up. In a lot of cases, especially with a perk or addon that inflicts mangled(and soon haemorrhage too), CoH is going to buy you more time than it will from survivors.
There is a reason why tournament squads rather run Botany Knowledge over CoH unless they send you to very specific maps, because simply put, Botany Knowledge is objectively better as a perk slot.
-
@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/318240/can-we-just-hide-the-grades-permanently
I disagree that it has nothing to do with MMR. I would bet money that there is at least some correlation between grade and MMR. Especially when you see players at red rank 1 like only a week after grade reset. These guys are playing like 12 hours a day, so they’re probably pretty good. It’s true that there will be outliers. The most likely outliers are players who are good but haven’t played in a while, so their grade will be far lower than their skill level would indicate.
Not really, I have a friend who got rank 1 on day 3 after the reset, but he's absolutely horrendous at the game. He might escape about 50% of his games, but his average chase is 20 seconds, his longest chase was 50 seconds against a killer who wanted to get 3 PWYF stacks before downing him. He plays a lot of DBD, knows what secondary actions give him a lot of emblem points(like, consistently doing 2 totems and 2 gens per match, rescuing and healing 2 teammates, that's often already enough for 1 pip).
In fact, the people who are really good actually have started playing less in my experience. I tend to have much easier games against full red rank teams than teams that have 1-2 silver or gold players. When I play survivor, my rank rarely reaches red rank anymore, but I am by far the strongest player in my group of friends.
-
@AsherFrost said:
Frankly, the more rounds I play as Survivor when one of my teammates disconnects the more I kind of wish the killer would just go into full sweat mode so we can just end the match and move on to the next one. I realize that's not a particularly popular opinion around here
Oh, you dont have to farm as a killer, but you can try going for 9 more hooks that game, rather than going for 3-4 hooks and optimally using your gen regression build. Farming can be nice from time to time, simply for the sake of bloodpoints(especially if everyone brought cakes during a bloodhunt weekend or smth), but that's not what people mean by a killer taking it slightly easier.
If my teammate DC'd very early in the game, I dont want to endure a facecamp, I dont want to be tunneled out too, I dont want the killer squeeze the most juice out of their scourge hooks and hexes. 3 survivors simply cannot fix 5 gens without running out of hooks. But being a bit more laidback does allow survivors to finish 3-4 gens before they run out of hooks, you can still be brutal in chase, just dont spam stuff like pain resonance and pop too.
-
@JamnJelly said:
I've noticed there's a stigma against killers playing as usual when a survivor disconnects early.
Should the killer go easier in your mind? Let one survivor go or something?
None of it makes sense, it's not their fault for a teammate leaving early.
With that said, what's the opinion of adding a bot to help?
Untill they add bots that replace DC'd survivors, its simply common courtesy/sportsmanship to go slightly easier. Survivors basically get rushed to what would have been a killer endgame without anything they can do. Your opponent loses easily 35% of pressure without anything to balance it out, they dont get any significant points for it, survivor repairspeed isnt increased to compensate either, while you gained an equal amount of pressure as if you facecamped someone out with all other survivors being afk during your facecamp.
Like, why should a killer still rush a kill when they already got a freebie? Why should a killer sweat when they might finally have the oppertunity on a laid back game?
Must they? Ofcourse not, but they should out of basic sportsmanship.
-
@Bubbalover said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890902#Comment_2890902
The entity buffs there physical capabilities and the Killers are Not Human anymore, it makes sense
Yeah, the entity does the same to survivors. How do you think they endure a chainsaw without being split in 2? How do you think they get their lungs perforated by a rusty hook and yet still have the capacity to scream out loud?
-
@drsoontm said:
- Shadow step can effectively hide survivors from afar unless you know there is a boon there.
- Dark theory f*cks with your distance estimation and make you miss from a hair.
- Everybody knows Circle of Healing (although it appears it has been nerfed in 5.7.0)
The problem with the boons isn't their power, it's they can be relit ad infinitum. Remember "high risk high reward"? I think the first half has been forgotten in their design.
Its high risk high reward. Boons do not pay off unless their effects have bought more time than it cost to set up/run to them.
CoH pre-nerf required 4 heals inside the boon just to break even. Shadowstep barely had value in the vast majority of cases as you can hide in lockers or behind gens, it's main power is actually the lack of scratchmarks when up close. Which then requires you to distract the killer for 8 seconds after you've already left to break even. Dark Theory doesnt even break even unless you're also running Resillience. Exponential doesnt break even unless you slug and ignore.
Boons have a high risk of being a massive time investment for survivors with low rewards. They need to be infinitely placable because that means they can be a bigger time sink.
You WANT survivors to keep placing boons. 6 boon placements=1 gen that could have been finished.
The issue with boons is their range, and in CoH's specific issue: giving each person the buff, rather than the buff being applied to the healing action in general. 3 people healing and boons on small/indoor maps are a bit busted. Medium size maps and less than 3 people healing up is fine. Large maps and 2 people or less healing up and boons are an absolute joke.
-
@MonsterInMyMind said:
So it's clear the Dev's don't wanna give Trapper all his traps. But with that being said, how come every reworked map that comes out barely has any grass, why is it hard to add grass on maps, this would help his kit a lot better.
I get wanting to reward Trappers for not just being basic and trapping at pallets, but currently that's how it feels on 99% of the maps right now; indoor maps are a prime example, and that's fine, but why every rework do you guys nerf him more by taking away trap spots and putting grass in such random spots that become predictable and aren't traditional looping spots. Haddionfield being one of the prime examples, the grass isn't at traditional looping areas, it's just random and respectfully bad placement if you want to reward people for trapping at random this isn't how you do it the playstyle will be just trapping at pallets due to how bad the grass spots are.
Indoor maps are fine and Trapper needs at least a couple of bad maps that require you to use your brain, but every map shouldn't be a downside; it's very unproductive. It just feels with every rework you guys nerf Trapper even more by taking away the environment he so needs to be useful.
There are plenty of places to hide traps other than grass. Go load a custom with a friend on Asylum, go inside the Ward and place traps in the ash. BAM, trap fully hidden, no grass.
Then load up Haddonfield and start looking for similar spots.
You dont need grass for Trapper to work. Eyrie of Crows is the only exception to this rule, as sandpiles are part of the floor and not decals.
-
@PixelBush said:
Typically new Killers get balance updates in the second midchapter after their release - has Artist's been delayed? Or is she gonna stay the way she is?
And before anyone draws any conclusions, I'm not petitioning for her to get buffed or nerfed. I'm just interested to see as an Artist enthusiast who wants to make a guide on her without risking the information in it becoming instantly outdated.
If anything since Artists release will need adjusting, its actually the DMS buff. Artist is worse than Twins when it comes to hook camping if she has DMS.
Honestly, I think I would like it if DMS could only be triggered once per hook. That way, people cant really spam Pain Resonance and DMS on killers like Blight and Nurse, while Artist instantly loses her ability to consistently camp someone on a scourge hook. There is plenty of hooks on the map, even 4 in the basement.
-
@AcoZnas94 said:
Look the video from 00:12
this is nowhere NEAR 7% per second
its like 1,5-2,5 (max) % per second
Does someone know why ?
XD sry for not posting the video
It is 7%, its just that regression rates are different from progression rates. For example, the 100% regression rate of a generator is about -0.3 charges per second. While the 100% progression rate of a gen is 1 charge per second. 7% per second seems to equate to -0.27 charges per second. This is probably to compensate for Mangled that already increases time for healing, and the massive amount of anti-healing builds available.
EDIT: before you think "that sucks so bad", remember that this is implicative of future perk ideas that have faster health regression. 100% health regression would be nearly 4 charges per second, meaning you'd lose your progression within 5 seconds. Imagine Hex: Haemorrhage, where survivors need to dedicate to fully healing or staying injured.