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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027535#Comment_3027535
That doesn't seem to be true. That 'tier 2 perks are uniquely tied to prestige 2'. But that Prestiging (any number) acts as upgrading the teachable perks +1.
This is apparent as buying the perk on the Shrine of Secrets will also upgrade the perk.
E.g. You P1, unlock Tier 1 teachables perks, then you purchase the perk from SoS and get tier 2 on all characters, then you P2... and get tier 3 on all characters.
Otherwise, there is absolutely no point in purchasing perks from the SoS.
I mean, there is, you could pay 2000 iri shards to unlock/upgrade a perk you really want instantly for all characters(worth 150k BP), or spend 2 million BP to get all 3 perks upgraded.
So there is a point in purchasing perks from the SoS, its basically a better version of purchasing perks from the SoS now. The only reason you would buy perks from the SoS is to not level a character 35 levels to unlock that perk. OR not having to purchase an entire character just to have access to their perks.
My problem with this, however, is that if you have all teachables through the SoS, its never gonna be worth to prestige the majority of survivors, or even purchase them. Like, lets say I have Kate's perks through the shrine all to t3. Its not gonna be worth putting the BP in her character to prestige. You're not gonna get any bonusses for 3 entire prestiges, and you're not gonna get the full bloody cosmetics untill prestige 6. That's roughly 12 million BP, that I could have spend on my main character instead to keep the item, addon and offering inventory filled.
So I personally hope that they will add a benefit to p7,p8 and p9 that basically give the character a buff to their personal 3 perks, and only when used on that character, making it easier to adept(its not adding much complexity to the base game for new players either, SBMM shouldnt put you up with people who have p9 characters untill you've learned enough to know that buffed adept exists), while also making it more interesting to play certain characters for their character specific perks.
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@Marigoria said:
I just think they need to be consistent. If Artist and Twins cant use their power near the hook, why can Hag do it? It's either all can or none can.
Yeah, the bigger question would be, if Twins cant, why can Bubba? Let alone that Bubba's current power design where he can hit multiple people at the same time will ALWAYS mean he's the strongest facecamper. I guess they reasoned that Twins could camp while being somewhere else on the map, sure, but slap on Dead Lock, Ruin, NOED and Thana on Bubba after the update, and it would practically be impossible for survivors to finish all gens unless they are a 4-man SWF on comms. The most common outcome would be 1 survivor dead after about 180 seconds, 2 gens popping around 93 seconds; 3rd one blocked for some time, so you either wait 30 seconds(and Bubba will know you've wasted time) or try and work on a next one, which now means the next 2 generators pop in about 95 seconds, but another one gets blocked for 30 seconds after 1 finishes, so you can finish at most 4 gens here and either wait 30 seconds, or hope that another gen is at slightly less % that can be popped within the next 10 seconds(probably not the case, cus Ruin). Not including time to go between gens either, which would average out to another 10 seconds each. So if you can down and hook a survivor within 60 seconds(which isnt really uncommon), you can guarantee a kill and still have at least 15 seconds to walk out of the basement, but you can wait on top of the basement too, and if survivors spend any second cleansing totems, trying to rescue their teammate or placing boons, you can have up to 60 full seconds before the next gen is cleared. Giving you up to 60 seconds to hook the next survivor(who you know is probably at the blocked gen), giving you even more time to camp out another hook state(cus you can camp the most progressed generator), then "leave" if you see the final gen popping near NOED or the exitgate, slug, go back, slug, slug. There is no more DS cus the EGC changes.
And that is assuming 4 man on comms. That is basically winning the game by standing still, against arguably the most powerful combo in the game itself.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023883#Comment_3023883
But it REALLY is that hard to create scenarios like this were the WHOLE team ends at 3-5k. That's laughably, impossibly, bad. That's the SURVIVORS messing up catastrophically. More then nurse being supposedly broken and OP
"supposedly broken and OP"
With double recharge addons, Nurse can recharge 1.8 charges before her fatique is over, wait less than 1 second and blink twice again.
With distance addons, Nurse basekit takes 2 seconds to fully charge, and can reach 20 meters at max charge. With Kavanagh, she takes 2.8 seconds to fully charge, and can reach 26 meters. But, how long does it take to reach 20 meters with Kavanaghs? 2 seconds. So you basically gain free distance and longer charge time. But that's not all. Nurse also takes 1.5 seconds to blink at max charge, but that doesnt get altered. So you can basically blink at 20 meters, but rather than 1.5 seconds, it takes about 1 second to blink. 0.5 seconds less reaction time for the same distance is a huge advantage on a killer that already doesnt need addons to win consistently.
So yeah, basically any addons that buff her basekit without having a significant downside to it is broken on Nurse.
And its not that hard for survivors to be only between 3-5k. You only gain chase points if you're in chase. Nurse breaks chase a lot, so no chase points. It takes 80 seconds for 1.2k points on a generator, but with 1 person on the floor, you have 3 choices: 1, help your teammate up(gaining no points untill the pick-up, 2, keep pushing the gen, 3, run cus she's coming for you now. Since 3 doesnt give you any realistic points, 2 is gonna work for once, but you'd only have 1.2k points and likely to be downed next, 1 gives you 250 points and maybe a bit more if the survivor being chased lasts long enough to reach an area thats not open and actually has some structures you can use against Nurse(back in the "old" days, thick trees were the main thing you'd use against Nurse, now there isnt a single tree remaining thats actually helpful).
So yeah, where would survivors get points from? Totems? You'd have no time to cleanse totems, your teammate is downed, a second one is in chase, its either pushing a gen or helping your teammate, totems would make you lose. Unhooks? Cant, no one is being hooked. Healing? Absolutely awful when it comes to BP, also takes too long to heal up against a slugging Nurse.
And this isnt even considering perks. Just her addons. Perks would empower her even more. Corrupt Intervention prevents a lot of gens from being worked on. Pain Res+DMS just in case to slow the gens down a bit if needed, BBQ if you've tried finding survivors and they arent there, the only reason Nurses hook in the first place, otherwise Infectious Fright.
Nurse is absolutely broken and OP, untill her addons are reworked, she will remain so. Her basekit is fine, but you can never call a killer fine just because their basekit is. You need to take addons in consideration.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
The cooldown and boons
Tbh it shouldn't have a cooldown, if survivors are getting downed that fast, haemorrhage and exhaustion are the least of your worries
I mean, you could be downed that fast because of the perk. Especially because other exhaustion perks, like Fearmonger, can pause the timer untill the gen is done. So apply something like Ruin, Blood Echo, Thanatophobia and Fearmonger on Nurse or Blight, and survivors are not going to be able to survive.
You could argue that survivors would be too exhaustion reliant, but thats like arguing Nurses are too reliant on recharge/blink distance addons, or Blights being too reliant on Alchemist Ring or Adrenaline Vial. If all those issues on Nurse and Blight(and a few other killers, like MD ring on Spirit) were removed so that survivors didnt need exhaustion perks against killers to stand a chance and their main use would be to gain distance last second or before chase, then Blood Echo's cooldown could be gone with ease.
But right now, without Sprintburst, Lithe, DH or Balanced Landing, you're not gonna last against certain killers consistently, while the lower tier killers end up losing consistently because of exhaustion perks. Once the devs create a healthy environment where exhaustion perks arent needed against S-tier, so that exhaustion perks can be nerfed a bit to indirectly improve gameplay for C and D tier killers.
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@eloise said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023868#Comment_3023868
It's not crowns I'm talking about but rift Challenge to win the complete cosmetics of Dredge and the new survivor of the 6th anniversary
Thats still 1-2 days right now. The final community challenge would be finished around monday, so you'd have till thursday to do those challenges.
Then there is a quite large chance that those cosmetics will either be given or be put inside the store within 3-9 months from now.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/329443/nerfnurse
I think the best (and most fair way) of nerfing the nurse is to straight up remove the omegablink add-ons. Even hardcore Nurse mains like SupaAlf admits this. It will definitely tone her down a notch, since the omegablinks also increase her blink travel-speed, making shorter blinks incredibly fast, and much easier to land.
This won't affect good Nurse players too much, but it will definitely raise her skill ceiling
remove the omega blink AND the recharge addons, literally the 2 addon types that make her basekit far more powerful than she already is.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3011533#Comment_3011533
Let's face it. None of them are even using starstruck, myc. Anything. Their teams massively ######### up to be slugged at 5 gens. Sounds like survivor error to me
Ah yes, because not being able to communicate with other survivors, which is the main way of defeating Nurse, especially ones using Corrupt, Pain Res, DMS, Ruin or any combination of those perks. Which you can see is the case. With Ruin, all you need is to slug and find the next survivor relatively quickly, with the recharge and distance addons you can easily down them before that one survivor has had a chance to recover, let alone be picked up, so you blink back, down that survivor again IF they are picked up, or chase off the other survivor first, if they push through to pick up, down and then easily down the 3rd.
Really, its not that hard to create scenario's like this when at least 2 out of 4 survivors are not on comms and/or not SWF. Survivors build more to get BP or challenges done, playing a sweaty Nurse build is literally a free win. I literally wouldnt mind if Nurse, Twins and Blight are locked for the remainder of the event.
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@eloise said:
I can't boas played on weekends so I'm afraid of missing the crowns of the Rift event because it's too long to do the challenges, thank you
the crowns are very easy to get this year, literally play 12 games as killer, find the invitation and you're done
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@Obelt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016253#Comment_3016253
Wait does overcharge and brine stack???
Stack? Not really, but it will start out at 200% regression and go to 400% afterwards. Otherwise it would be 200%-500%, which doesnt really change much tbh, because you can use Pop too.
So Pop, Overcharge alone will practically ensure a gen goes to 0. Add Call of Brine, and it will definitely reach 0 cus you can simply kick it again and apply the 2.5% basekit regression on top of Overcharge and CoB.
It's healthier than Ruin tho, but 400% on a perk that can be triggered on multiple gens without being a hex? It's definitely going to be used by every single killer.
They might still change perks based on the PTB tho, let alone the current feedback.
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Well, you are forgetting 1 thing, people are going to run off the record so much that killers would want to hit ASAP to trigger deepwounds. The benefits: unless they changed it(which I doubt) haste still doesnt stack, so hitting someone ASAP gets rid of the endurance AND 7% speedboost.
To then keep on tunneling is going to be a bit more difficult, because Lucky Break will also see a resurgance because it can be recharged(btw, this alone means Guardian is completely useless right now, basekit and Lucky Break has the same effect, but better).
This is all going to entice most killers to stop tunneling and go for someone else. Because its going to be legit faster to get kills while keeping other people occupied(practically guaranteed deepwounds means they have to mend, you can pick up chase with someone else faster due to reduced hit cooldown too), and since survivors have a slightly longer time fixing gens, you rarely need to tunnel someone out.
The big issue here, is lower MMR. Because while higher MMR was super stale due to that gameplay, low MMR would now get super stale for the opposite reasoning.
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@MrMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016405#Comment_3016405
Agreed 4s would be much better. The first thing I thought is "Well, another Nurse/Blight buff since they can just immediately jump behind the surv after eating the DS"
They did already talk about working on Twins and Blight, 2 of the most tunnel potential killers, I wouldnt be surprised if Nurse was added to that mix too.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3017276#Comment_3017276
It makes a HUGE DIFFRENCE. Using a new character gives them time to make it MEAN SOMETHING. make it feel genuine. lets them use A BLANK SLATE to make something awesome.
Representation that is tacked on feels lackluster and not genuine
Honestly, a character that thought he was straight(read up on david's lore) and was closeted for the longest time, only to recently figure out he has been gay all along is much more genuine than simply adding a gay character. Already having a history, only to question yourself and finally take the stand to be genuine is a very real experience for a lot of people. The only thing about David that wasnt genuine, was the fact that BHVR PR thought it was nice to yell it out loud on twitter.
Adding a new gay character for the sake to have a gay character is quite ingenuine, because you know that character has purely been added because they were gay.
It wasnt tacked on, the announcement was just really forced.
Imagine this scenario now: BHVR didnt tweet it out at all, but still added the lore as normal, then people slowly started reading the lore and found out David was gay that way. THAT would have been the perfect way to reveal it. But just because the reveal was bad, doesnt mean the action itself was bad.
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@Pior_Morte said:
there is NO REASON AT ALL to use Desperate Measures with the new Botany Knowledge buff so they just completely killed the perk
Except, you can stack them and they are even better. If you look for the best perk of X, then I can give you a list of 200 perks that have "NO REASON AT ALL" to be used, because there exists a better version of them.
The only perk that has no reason to be used at all right now is Guardian.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3017737#Comment_3017737
No I don't use perks so I wont rely on dead hard I think its a wasted perk slot sb is 100x better but no its because you wont get any distance after getting hit and they will be right on you when getting hit giving you less time to get somewhere to loop. So best option will be to use dh for the 1 extra second and drop a pallet right away to get a little more distance to the next loop to then get blood lusted on if its a long wall. the literal only safeish pallets now are pallet window gyms. Which can also get blood lusted. But if its a blight or nurse your just dead lol.
" because you wont get any distance after getting hit" Except you do, except instead of 18 meters, its 16 meters. That still takes the average 115 killer 25 seconds+lunge to close where currently it takes 28 seconds+lunge to close. Thats a save of 3 seconds. If you think that 3 seconds is gonna be the difference between not finding a loop, then you're simply not cut out for this game. You need to be visually within distance of 12 meters before the chase even starts. When walking in a straight line, that means 7 seconds already passed + 15 seconds, means 22 seconds before bloodlust 1 starts. If you do not find a loop in 22 seconds and cant block line of sight for longer than 5 seconds, you've simply been outpositioned and deserve to be downed.
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@Adjatha said:
As it turns out: they were likely not actually playing killer very much and made various edicts based 100% on a survivor experience perspective. Nobody who's played this game for more than a dozen hours is surprised.
well, there are a lot of things that were added on killer side, in fact, 90% of buffs were given to killers in the first 2 years, and 80% of nerfs were given to survivors the first 2 years. Then it was made clear that certain killers could tunnel and camp and still get 4k's, which was around 2019. A lot of people claim these were the best years, but they were super boring from a survivor experience. So they nerfed toolboxes and then altered the meta to be more enjoyable. Tunneling and camping was still super taxing, but only on 1 of the survivors, rather than all 4, if they played as a team. Now they made chasing multiple survivors a lot easier, while tunneling harder. Facecamping with Bubba is still possible tho, wonder when they are gonna fix that.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
Yea like i said if you drop pallets you suck which now you have to do since there is incresed bloodlust hits decresed speed after hit and pallet breaking.
The thing is, you still dont need to drop pallets quickly, the only reason you would need to drop pallets quickly, is if you've been relying on Dead Hard to save pallets, in which case, you suck. If you need to rely on any perk to not pre-drop pallets, which you claim you HAVE to do now, you simply have not learned the basics of looping.
@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3017669#Comment_3017669
Comboing loops is a loop also not staying at one tile if you combo loops without dropping that looping which is now countered by bloodlust.
"comboing loops is a loop" You cant combine things and say they are the same other than chains and holes. You can chain loops, but thats not the same as looping. Looping literally is local, comboing loops is part of chase. As for countered by bloodlust? Nah, not really, you can easily break bloodlust by keeping line of sight broken for 5 seconds, which happens at tiles, and bloodlust t1 still takes 15 seconds to appear AFTER chase has started. Chase doesnt start untill the killer has already closed the gap, so it basically takes the same amount of time. It's simply faster to get bloodlust t3, which now takes 5 seconds longer than current bloodlust t2. And honestly, how often have you seen killers reach Bloodlust t2 in the first place?
@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3017669#Comment_3017669
Oh tunneling got buffed because tunneling was never a problem in the first place and now with all the adds for hitting people as killer the buffs dont do much.
Tunneling was always a problem, anytime a survivor gets out with less than 10k BP, I guarantee you they have been tunneled. That is a problem, the buffs literally prevent killers from counting to 12-ish and then hitting, bypassing BT and then eating DS early on, then count to 12-ish again and get them out.
Now they cant bypass bt and are forced to hit someone who is likely being protected by endurance, they cant start mass slugging because of the buff of WGLF, they can still camp, but other than Bubba facecamping, you'd still quite easily get out or at the very least hooktrade. Both giving more room to survivors while unhooking/being unhooked, and in compensation chase has been slightly reduced. This entices killers to try and hook as many survivors as possible, because that will legit be the fastest way to get kills now.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3017579#Comment_3017579
Thats not looping a killer and is boring as hell to watch.
Except that is looping a killer, its not a loop untill you stay at a tile. Not pre-dropping pallets is looping, if you consistently pre-drop pallets, you're not looping and thats super boring.
So in fact, staying at a single tile and mindgame is optimal, as it breaks chase and doesnt give bloodlust quickly, while shift+w gaming(the boring one) gives bloodlust quicker and gives the killer a quicker way to catch up.
So what's boring here? Let alone that you havent really given a reason that tunneling got buffed, when there are more perks overall to discourage it. "yeah, but ds gets disabled" I can hear you say, but yeah once all gens are done. At that point it cant really be considered tunneling anymore, cus no one is being focussed to be removed early from the game.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3017257#Comment_3017257
No no no you will see man all survivors will do is bring bnps and gen rush perks if you cant loop a killer 15 sec you should just drop pallets and run away anyways. Looping is a main mechanic of this game and they just nerfed it to the ground and im not talking about dead hard whoever uses that cant loop anyways and the people who can dont need it. Do you really thing haste and 5 sec of bt will stop tunneling then you are delusional killers already do it with it being way longer wont change anything. The only difference is you cant loop to counter the tunnel. The main reason gens got done in dbd is by having someone who could loop well and killers just chasing them the whole game.
You do realize that if you use pallets correctly and dont greed them in dropping, you can legit run a killer for 5 minutes? 300 seconds is enough to finish all gens. And yeah, that 5 second basekit and haste will reduce tunneling, then you have BT increasing that time by 10 seconds, and Off The Record giving an 80 second endurance effect, because do you know how peopel tunnel now? Wait 12 seconds, hit. Now they would have to wait 80 seconds for that hit, or hit ASAP to catch up quicker. So yeah, killers will eventually start hitting super fast.
Its not the basekit BT thats going to stop them from tunneling, its Off The Record that makes it beneficial to no longer wait.
So really, what tunneling got buffed?
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@Akumakaji said:
Iron Will invalidates a complete part of the killers means of tracking and destroys killers that rely on sound, ie Spirit. I can understand that 100% reduction is comfortable, but that perk allowed way too many cheesy plays with zero counterplay. -75% reduction is still pretty chunky, now you can't use it in every situation, but it still gives you way better odds when hiding somewhat away from the killer .. you just can't hide directly beside them while wounded.
Its like Bamboozled that counters windows, but you still have to vault the window, now imagine it just block all windows that you came within 5m. Or if Crowd Control or Blood Favour were no Hexes and had no cooldown and just shut down your ability to use pallets without any drawbacks.
Lightborn ... yes, there is lightborn. It completely invalidates one entire part of the survivors toolbox, BUT many say that its normally a wasted perk, and at the very least its not a base ability like vaulting, but the means by which a lot of survivors torment the killer. *soft sobbing noises*
Yeah, but one of the issues I have is that Iron Will now has the worst of 2 worlds, it has a reduction AND gets deactivated while exhausted.
Personally, I would have made people broken while Iron Will was active, but 100% noise reduction, but remove the noise reduction while exhausted. Meaning 3 things:
- survivors cant heal up while noiseless(giving up a base mechanic to remove another)
- survivors can only heal up while exhausted(but having noise)
- killers can tell when survivors have an exhaustion perk ready or not(like the new DH)
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@Adjatha said:
I also like how they removed the BP bonus from BBQ and WGLF, but only WGLF got a buff to compensate. Hey, how about some P A R I T Y
WGLF had only BP for 5 years, BBQ had aura reading, then BBQ got BP too for parity, WGLF didnt recieve an additional effect. Now WGLF doesnt really do anything other than amplify its use, you HAVE to tank a hit AND pick someone up for the endurance effect to be possible, BBQ's effect is strong enough to be standalone.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3017153#Comment_3017153
But the looping is dead faster break times faster hit regen times less distance after getting hit camping got buffed and so did tunneling im like really confused on where you see exactly the same.
camping buffed? Not really, tunneling alone also got nerfed. Sure, breaking obstacles is slightly faster, but with Blight, an S tier killer, breaking pallets faster than a Myers while also closing gaps faster, just didnt make sense. Then the regen times for hits, again, doesnt really matter that much. The bigger issue is Nurse here, since it means Nurse gets to use her blinks faster.
As for loops, well, I never really used Dead Hard anyway, and I see plenty of reasons to use it now. Rather than using it to dodge a hit, I can now tank a hit, which means I can use it before I vault a window thats too far to be a grab, but close enough to be a hit, and not get downed. The same would be true for reaching pallets. You could still use the effect to basically reach a pallet, but not its just a 1 time use perk in chase. You cannot use Dead Hard over and over and over again in the same chase by slapping on Vigil, you can now use it once, either to make distance for a window or pallet, and then not use it again untill you are mended. With Sprintburst and Vigil, you can still use it again and again and again. So now the choice becomes, either DH for dodging a hit and a 1-time potential distance, or Sprintburst for consistent distance during chase.
99% of chases do not even get bloodlust 1, and when they do, its often the moment the killer gets a hit.
Let alone that For The People's change means that killers would benefit more from hitting early than late.
So if you think tunneling and camping were buffed, when all changes indicate something opposite, you're simply delusional. Chase wasnt buffed that much, as it basically returns a lot of chase to mindgames rather than predropping pallets or making distance. The changes made were mainly made to counter shift+w gameplay, it barely affects tiles.
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@Unnamed_1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016779#Comment_3016779
To your first point: yes I do think if your teammate screws you over you should get punished. It is a team game for the survivors for a reason. The thing right now is (without perks or anything mind you) if I look at the unhooked (new base-kit+Injured) or the unhokee (healthy) it does not really matter for who I go here since both have basically two health states. So only really promotes people to make the choice to go for the unhooked, since he at least was already hooked. (If you are going to maximize kills stricly looking at logic)
And the Second Point: I brought that point up because of the sudden rise of endurance perks. I can only speak from my perspective and from my games where I had not so great experiences with whats currently there. I appreciate your insight on what you might think the balances shifts too. Thank you for your input ^^
Thats the thing tho, all other changes in the game, the added 10 seconds, the basekit 2.5% on kicking, the fact that Thanatophobia is buffed massively(0.5% might sound quite minor, but its 0.5% AND 10 whole extra charges, right now, 4 stacks of thana means 1 gen solo takes 100 seconds, after the update, 4 stacks of thana means 1 gen takes 115 seconds). Not even including things like Dying Light being indirectly buffed, while Gift of Pain being increased from 9% to 16% on top of the 10 extra charges means you can still slow down generators quite a lot, with just 1 hook. And the more you hook, the slower the game goes.
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@Unnamed_1 said:
Yes yes, killer main over here whining about the survivor buffs yadayada. The problem I have with these is not that dislike the idea behind the reworked perks in general. Anti-Tunnel and Anti-Camp? All for it! Devour and make-your-choice are some of my favourite perks for a reason. I need that extra spice in my life.
Now the problem, my dear fog wanderer, is that, at least in my opinion, many second chance perks reward bad plays. As it is now with Borrowed-Time and will continue to be with the new survivor base-kit and perks like Off-the-Record.
Example:
Killer hooks survivor and wants to immediately patrol to wherever he thinks is best.
Enter survivor friend who as soon as the killer turns away from the hook unhooks his fellow crouch-companion
I consider unhooking while the killer is within spitting distance of the hook a bad play. Normally. If it would be punishable.
Furthermore if you dare have any survivors left during end-game-collapse and hook someone, you need special circumstance to have a chance to secure your kill, like being skilled enough to play around whatever survivors throw at you , which if we are honest most killers are not, or having an exposure mechanic up your sleeve. And even then you may only get the would-be rescuer. But if they unhook them right in your face? That entity snack is gone.
Now. What I wanted to start with this is not a "camping bad" "survivor strong" debate. I want to offer the proposition of certain perks(Second chance perks like Borrowed-Time as example) or mechanics(new proposed survivor unhook base-kit) to only activate when the killer is already a few seconds around a certain distance of the hook (so most probably camping) and not activating during end-game-collaps at all (to let the survivor work for their escape).
And with that proposition I want to start a discussion by offering the first counter point: "many killers can camp from some distance still". A very valid point, which is why I would really like to hear your opinions and thoughts on that matter. Am I alone on this matter? Do you have a better proposition? Am I just really really dumb? Please share your opinion!
"I consider unhooking while the killer is within spitting distance of the hook a bad play. Normally. If it would be punishable."
Yeah, and it is punishable, by instantly chasing the unhooking survivor. Why should the unhooked survivor be punished for a horrible play their teammade has made?
"not activating during end-game-collaps at all"
Well, thing is, the unhooking survivor would literally be your entity snack, if they did a very daring unhook, their unhooked teammate should not be just an easy snack, you've had all game to reduce the numbers for survivors, and with the current changes being made, its made easier to pick someone off before all gens are finished. So the odds of having 3 survivors being able to quickly heal up, 3 people going for an unhook, is going to be rarer in the first place. Meaning its much easier to swap 1 entity snack with another.
Let alone that these changes are also made so that killers have less chance to secure a single kill, many players have mentioned that killer average kills are going to be closer to 2.5 because 0 kills currently is practically impossible, especially for killers like Bubba. With these changes, 0 kills are going to be possible if survivors play well, even against someone like Bubba(still very hard, but possible). Right now, the most common outcomes are 3-4k's(depending if the killer slugs for the 4k, which sadly still hasnt been changed), or 1k. 0k's and 2k's only really happen when the killer never tunnels or camps. With the changes made, 4k's and 0k's should be closer in ratio, with 3k's and 1k's both changing scenario's to 2k's.
The only thing left to do is buff Myers' basekit a tiny bit, and nerf nurse and blight's addons a tiny bit and you have a very healthy roster of both killer powers and perks to accomodate them. Without screwing survivors over.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
Gameflow won't change until core dynamics are changed. Basically gen repair and regression.
Until these issues are addressed the best options for killers will be to still tunnel someone out of the game.
With the new perk changes a new meta will just emerge but not the gameplay.
Take d.h with it's changes earmarked survs will probably switch to sprint burst, which will be used as much as d.h, why? Because its a good way to escape a chase, and killing survivors is the best ay to slow gen repair speed, and regress gens.
Well, repair didnt really need to be slower, I disagree with the 10 seconds being added as its simply another 10 seconds that you have to look at a progression bar for no real reason. I rather would have slowed down gen repair dynamically by reducing the penalty for doing a gen together from -0.15 per player to -0.1, but compensating that by adding a secondary penalty when multiple generators are being worked on at the same time(-0.1 per generator being worked on). Meaning that people doing 2 gens at the same time will take about 90 seconds to finish, but a solo gen being the only generator being worked on would only take 80 seconds. The best part of that change, is that 3 people working on 3 seperate gens would basically mean gens take 100 seconds to finish. Giving you an entire extra 20 seconds to finish chase and interrupt a generator(especially if you brought something like Thanatophobia). But basekit 90 seconds also means that Overcharge(going up to 400% regression speed btw, 250% regression is equal to 80 seconds for a gen to regress currently, 400% means that you can go from 99% to 0% in 70 seconds) and Thanatophobia would be even stronger than their current changes imply.
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@DY86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3014867#Comment_3014867
Powerful? Bro, it takes over 30 secs the way it is now. Its faster to use a med kit, CoH or just have someone else heal u.
But what if there is no CoH? What if there isnt someone else available? 2 people selfcaring at the same time right now is an equal timesink as 2 people healing each other. So yeah, quite powerful.
If you think Selfcare is a weak perk, I can 100% tell that this has been your experience:
Claudette running to the complete opposite side of the map, healing herself with selfcare in the furthest corner away from the killer possible.
This is like using current pop, walking past a gen thats 99% to kick a generator that is 20%. Its simply bad perk usage.
Someone using selfcare nearby, especially when they've been recently unhooked and their teammate is being chased nearby, they can heal up before their teammate is losing a single healthstate, meaning they can easily jump in to bodyblock. Let alone that Selfcare is often ran with Botany Knowledge anyway, making that self-heal last only 24 seconds. Meaning that even if your teammate entered a deadzone, you can heal up fast enough to bodyblock and tank a hit. You could even tank a hit, run away, have the killer chase the same survivor, heal up before that killer is capable of closing the gap and then tank another hit. In a team with 3 selfcarers(+bk), it was basically possible to have an infinite chase while the 4th person did gens.
35% also means that healing takes about 46 seconds(without additional debuffs), then running the new botany means it will take 30 seconds rather than 24.
Again, the weirdest part about the nerf is the removal of item efficiency, especially since they buffed the efficiency of Botany by 17%. Meaning you can now run Botany and Streetwise, and have practically the same effect as you had when running Botany, Streetwise and Self-Care. So if you ran Self-Care for self-healing with medkits, now you even have an extra perkslot for even more healing speed. Like, you could use the purple medkit about 6 times with 3 perks, then have Built To Last and use it another 6 times, then Built To Last for another 4 times, then again for another 2 times for a total of 18 heals with just the medkit. Excluding addons, which could be fully dedicated to speed. Now you have Botany Knowledge being buffed so you can do the same with 3 perks, except healing is 17% faster, and you have another perkslot open for a 4th healing perk like Desperate Measures. Not even including that the Botany Knowledge buff also means that Syringe can be used even faster in chase.
The 35% healing is fine, the other alteration is the odd one out here.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SG609CT9WAIP/d.png
Here you can see that BHVR changes Perks only thanks to stats, 35% healing speed is awful, it's literally a 100% Killer Perk now.
My biggest question is the removal of self-heal item efficiency, why not nerf medkits? I get that 50% self-heal speed is still quite powerful, going from injured to healthy against a lot of killers can be game changing, especially if you cant find your teammates. So the 35% imo is fine, but the item efficiency removal is baffling.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3001267#Comment_3001267
It's not bias, it's math. And no, it didn't help your point it just made it insanely hard to read.
Dead Hard is STILL a messed up perk. It's been out FIVE YEARS. It's the #1 perk in the game, CONFIRMED. And still we are told "We are looking at it". Ruin was thrashed WAY faster than this. Undying was thrashed WAY faster than this. Boil Over was thrashed WAY faster than this. Parental Guidance got smashed before it left the PTB.
What do you mean Ruin was trashed way harder? It was BUFFED significantly with the change. The only downside was that you could no longer apply pop on top of a generator with ruin, but overall? Yeah, Ruin actually had viability in high mmr where survivors always hit great skillchecks and was practically useless. Old Ruin only worked on low tier survivors who couldnt really land great skillchecks. And being the number 1 perk in the game for DH? I mean, only in terms of usage, not in terms of strength, that title still belongs to Sprintburst. Also, with that same logic, Nurse has been out for 6 years and still is the number 1 most used killer in high mmr confirmed.
Also, Undying was utterly busted, having aura reading on ALL totems, while a fully powered hex like Ruin would respawn, utterly busted. DH has never been that level of busted.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3001237#Comment_3001237
Just to add to this, it really does seem like transparency is coming back. Not like it used to with the weekly dev streams, but we've got a genuine roadmap of changes and when we can roughly expect them, with promises to communicate to us in advance if these deadlines can't be hit for whatever reason. And after the radio silence of Year 5, and the semi-communication of Year 4, the fact they've decided to speak to us again is actually quite reassuring.
Yeah definitely, I am genuinely considering that the devs were too scared to talk after the backlash of the Ruin rework and the Toolbox nerf. Looking back, I cant believe people consider old ruin to be stronger. Yeah, it used to stack with Pop, but it was quite a bad hex. The group it worked best against would also be survivors who would lose the game due to old Third Seal.
@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3001237#Comment_3001237
If your sentence requires the use of the word "and" 11 times it is time for a new sentence.
But maybe, just maybe, I did that on purpose just to show your bias there. Too many people saying "devs do nothing", or "devs change things whenever survivors whine" or "devs change things whenever killers whine". Yeah, they could be faster and there could be more, but I dont really see any change that needed to be reverted, aka, they were good changes overall. Some changes were adjusted due to being too weak/too powerful, but they were never in need of being reverted.
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It really depends on the context of the situation. The balance of the game is overall fine. It's more that the gameplay to achieve that balance isnt always fun. Its been historically accurate that leaving the game can be the best course of action. If you do not like playing the game, then dont. Even if you like the game conceptually, if you keep playing the game, that means the game is enjoyable enough for you to maintain your position in the playerbase. A lot of BHVR's decisions are based on how much their playerbase grows and shrinks. Some decisions were made too early, like SBMM, the biggest reason why SBMM is considered to be awful is due to survivor BP when being camped and tunneled and that the perks that create such situations are making gameplay very stale. I have come to the position where I dont think SBMM is bad on its own, its mainly that the game isnt in a state where SBMM is applicable yet(Bubba, Twins, Nurse, Blight, NOED are all things why SBMM cannot work properly right now, because the survivor perks that exist to reply to those killers are also perks that basically negate the strengths of other killers)
@WesCravenFan said:
Well, we've been voicing "concerns" for years and gotten nowhere.
So people can still work on gens and retain DS and killers can still proxy-camp their first hooked survivor to get a kill 30 seconds into the game because of mori and people can finish 4 gens and sacrifice a teammate to escape with 3 people and people can stack ruin undying and force survivors to do all 5 totems for the most powerful hex and people can infinitely loop on any map and people can finish all 5 gens within 3 minutes and people can stand still with spirit to get free hits and people can facecamp with freddy and not get any risk of BT and people can use Amanda's Letter on Piggy to get at least 1 kill 75% of the time and killers like Demo, Ghosty and Legion have outdated addons.
Face it, we've gotten a long way. Its not always been fast enough, some things have gotten priority over others for seemingly no reason and in all honesty, the communication about things could be more transparent. The game is 6 years old, some transparancy is preferred.
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If I am playing with friends and guarantee a replacement? Yeah, definitely. If I am playing killer and basically just have to fart once during the game to get a replacement cake? Sure. If I am playing solo survivor with the risk of being facecamped and getting 500% of 5k and not even being able to replace that cake with a new one? No thanks, I rather save it for when I play with friends.
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@Deathstroke said:
So that's what im thinking I have dredge on level 50 and pretty decent perks with him but problem is that most of them are still only yellow so should I continue updating him but then I will not prestigate him before the new system or should I just prestigate him now?
TL;DR: depends on the extra benefits for prestiging. If its just the compensation+border, its not really gonna be worth it other than flex reasons.
Well, the benefit of prestiging right now is that the moment the update comes, all characters will have all the perks at t3, where otherwise you have to do that after the update.
They did mention people who significantly invested BP(like p3 all perks, or p0 all perks), which will recieve a very significant compensation for that. So for those p0 all perks its never gonna be worth prestiging.
For any non-p3 character that also doesnt have all perks, the "downside" to that, is that you will lose all your addons, items and offerings you would have gained between p0-p3. Although, those should be compensated for.
IMO, the biggest rewards should go to p3 all perks simply due to the amount of offerings and addons that have been lost due to prestiging, then p2 all perks, p1 all perks, p0 all perks, p3, p2, p1. There might even scenarios inbetween, where someone only has 75% of the perks as p3, but definitely invested more time and effort in total due to p3 on its own already costing 6 million bp at the bare minimum.
I really do hope its more than just a special border tho, a hook skin would be nice. I get that making legacy prestige skins while also having a lot of licensed killers that would be impossible to make that deal for(hence BHVR making blighted skins instead, its the closest you'd get to legacy prestige), but just a border and compensation is gonna be lame. They were hyped about announcing it tho, so I am guessing its gonna be more than just a border and compensation.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995436#Comment_2995436
people could just stand exactly like 5 meters next to the pallet and the killer would be forced to swing to waste dead hard, than the survivor could put down pallet because the killer has missed cooldown. you'd basically iframe every attack without needing the skill to time dead hard in first place while still being able to utilize it for its distance. Basically it just lowers skill-cap for dead hard while keeping its power-level very similar, if not stronger given that now casual players can use dead hard more effectively rather than using it into walls.
SB is balanced because in order to use SB like you do with dead hard, you have to sacrifice generator efficiency 99% sprint burst to use it in a chase. The walking constantly/running mindlessly is like the killer getting a free generator defense perk. The alternative of not wasting sprint burst and doing generators efficiently means that sprint burst will always get used at the start of a chase which gives killer more control for whether he/she wishes to take the chase.
You can bodyblock survivors at that point, you dont become intangible when dead harding, just invincible. Just bodyblock and bam, free down. So, that is your "argument" entirely debunked.
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@AcelynnBen said:
seriously what the hell
You got ghostface, gets nerfed by one loop
pig, which can be good with perks but her traps feel random even with changes
Nemsis, worst damn addons in this damn game
Sadako, forgotten
Myers, impossible to play without perks
Demodoggy, doesn't exist anymore (can't say anything about it)
Cenobite, again a forgotten killer
Pyramid head, will say is a bit good when he has the element of surprise but somehow made his movements feel so awkward while using the rites of judgments
Freddy : i forgot he even exists
the only good license killer is bubba, because he can one shot, which is honestly feels boring in general, but feels amazing when u want to make everyone suffer
and yet you might say some original characters are weak but let me remind you, at their time they were gods of the game, they just aged poorly
and then we get some forgotten original killers
Artist, can literally nerf any damn loop, she is just underrated
hag, again broken af but boring to play with or against since u always got a down
Trapper, you feel like Lex Luther when someone gets caught in your trap
Wraith, has either sanic build or sneaky
hot take : twins are a good since u can put vic as a UAV anywhere to check for survivors but the switching time is what's holding them back
Deathslinger, literally has an AWP
you get the point basically, every license killer feels nerfed on release while original killers are good but tend to age poorly, im gonna be honest i wasn't drawn to this game by nurse or blight
piggy is what drew me here because im a huge fan of the saw movies, then ghostface brought me back
it just feels sad that killers that people enjoy are so weak while u can just pick nurse and guarantee a 4k every game which is just lame and boring
But feel free to tell me how nemsis has the best addons, even tho he doesn't have a single addon that exhausts or literally does anything else
Because there is an argument to be made that DBD is pay to win if licensed killers are consistently strong.
You never want your game to be pay to win, because the majority of the money comes from mid and lower income players who probably cannot afford to get all the killers they would need just to compete.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
A common argument i hear whenever Dead Hard gets brought up is "If DH gets nerfed killers will whine about Sprint Burst"
For me personally, Sprint Burst is entirely fine as it is, Why do i think this? Let me explain
Sprint Burst is a very simple perk mechanically, if you hold down shift and start moving, you'll break into a sprint for 3 seconds, this sprint makes you move at 150%, making you basically impossible to catch for those 3 seconds, once that time is up, you become exhausted for 40 seconds.
If this sounds like one of the strongest perks in the game to you, then you'd be right, increasing your mobility to 150% for any amount of time is a fantastic perk to have, however, here's the kicker, SB is extremely easy to waste, if you want to use SB at the beginning of every chase, you will have to walk everywhere, and even with Fixated, you are moving a lot slower then the default sprint speed, and if you are like me and run everywhere, then you run the risk of not having SB on hand once the chase begins.
For a example, lets say you are a killer and you find a survivor, they use SB, you now have a choice, do you either ignore them, making the SB completely wasted, OR do you chase them now that they can't use SB again, alternatively, lets say you find a survivor and they have SB but it isn't quite off of cooldown yet, so you get a hit, do you now leave them and go for someone else? or do you think you can down them before their SB cooldown ends and they fly off into the night?
This, in my opinion, is what makes SB balanced, when it goes off, it offers the killer several options for how they want to proceed in response to it's activation, and if it goes off mid-chase, then the survivor is properly rewarded for managing the cooldown to a point where they can get away with walking long enough to reactivate SB
Now, i've given you the reasons why i think SB is balanced, now i'll explain why i don't think it's comparable to Dead Hard
Dead Hard and Sprint Burst have exactly 1 thing in common, that being the fact that they're both Exhaustion Perks
Sprint Burst is most used at the beginning of a chase, if they get it off mid-chase, then that's because they were able to set it up and walk around long enough for the cooldown to end, Dead Hard can be used Mid-Chase with zero set up required
Sprint Burst cannot erase a mistake on the survivor's part, Dead Hard can do so at the press of a button
Sprint Burst cannot outright IGNORE a killer's power, Dead Hard can ignore every single power in the game except for Hillbilly, Bubba, Myers, Ghostface, and Oni and that's only because they can Instadown, if the DH user is already injured then they can ignore all of their powers as well.
Sprint Burst does not force the killer to wait to swing, Dead Hard's mere existence forces the killer to wait to swing even if the survivor the killer is chasing doesn't even have the perk
All of those reasons are why Sprint Burst does not compare to Dead Hard, DH is in a class all it's own,
Watch this video if you need a more in-depth dive into why Dead Hard is a mistake
and if, after all of this and the several hundred other discussions about these two perks, you either think Sprint Burst and Dead Hard are even close to comparable, or that Dead Hard is balanced, then i passive-aggressively leave you this quote from the Emperor of Japan himself, George Takei
"Your intellect is as weak as your dollar. Failure is your destiny. You disrespect yourself and your nation. You are made of stupid."
g'night
Yeah, my issue with DH is basically that survivors get to choose when to use it, I personally think if DH was simply an "activate when a hit is detected" perk, it would still be quite annoying, but it would have a ton of counterplay for a lot of killers. It can no longer be used to dash over Trapper's traps. It can no longer be used to close the gap to a pallet, in fact, you can swing early on purpose to trigger the dead hard so they are forced into a dash to the opposite side, so you can block them off from dropping the pallet. Same would be true for windows.
It would be a very annoying perk to deal with in a lot of scenario's, but it would have some actual counterplay.
I am of the opinion that SB is currently the most powerful survivor perk in the game in terms of direct effect. I think this change wouldnt really nerf DH in terms of power, it would just nerf it's utility, because DH might not be the strongest, but it definitely has by far the most utility.
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to be fair, Inner Focus literally only works well when facing Dredge. The rest of her perks dont really do much at all.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
Dredge is a very balanced Killer TBH. Only played against him a few times but it was fun and actually scary at some points lmao.
Oh yeah, definitely, but that doesnt mean Dredge has a very unbalanced aspect. Here's a build that is already quite strong for Demogorgon, and Demogorgon has to place his own portals:
Territorial Imperative, Make Your Choice, Devour Hope, Undying/Darkness Revealed.
It's more powerful than Bubba facecamping basement with Insidious and running NOED, because at least Bubba is limited to be inside the basement untill all gens are done. Dredge can basically do the same thing while chasing other survivors off the gens.
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@Icaurs said:
This applies to both
The one thing entitled survivors and killers both have, is a massive inflated perspective on their own skill. They see themselves as way more skilled then they really are and believe they have reached the peak of their killer or survivor abilities. They often say things like "it's not possible" Yes, it generally is possible, if you have the skill for it. Fact with proper perks and add-ons, every single killer in DBD is viable. The only exception is trapper. Similar survivors can turn most matches around by following basic strategies, such as taking the killer away from gens.
Most players who are entitled tend to run meta builds and say "I need it." If you are running meta for survivor or killer and you are losing regularly, you are bad, and the game should not be reworked to inflate your ego. Yes I struggle as killer, but that's because I don't like running meta builds because its boring. If you run meta and complain that the game is unbalconied, you are bad and have no idea what you are talking about. If you don't run meta and complain the game is unbalanced, my response is that is why the meta is there.
As a counterargument to the "its not possible": I personally say that quite often too because I know from my POV it shouldnt have been. I know that there can be a slight desync, especially when it comes to projectiles, but it shouldnt have been possible from my POV.
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@ImAJoke264 said:
Begin with S or K and then a line between them to make it easier to read, thank you.
S
They complain about camping and tunneling.
Easiest one of my life:
Survivors: when you dont camp but patrol an area that happens to have a hooked survivor, because you know protecting the generators on the opposite side is a waste of pressure and time, but still are called a camper. Let alone if you want to secure a kill in the EGC(my personal rule is if the final gen has popped, the killer has no reason to not camp or tunnel if they desire to do so) they always call it camping and tunneling.
Killers: when they spend 2 minutes chasing 1 single survivor who obviously outplayed them during chase so much that the only reason they are downed is due to bloodlust 3, then camp and tunnel because 3 gens have popped and "I will keep playing like this untill survivors dont genrush". We didnt rush, you were slow.
TL;DR to the bit below: While entitled survivors are more common, they are less of a pain to face than entitled killers.
And to be honest, I dislike entitled killers a lot more than entitled survivors, because at the very least, entitled survivors sometimes try to give their opponent a fun match or a match they can learn from. Where entitled killers think that any game that has less than 3 kills is a loss. Per week, I face at least 5 killers who slug for the 4k and refuse to hook the 3rd survivor for ages even if it means they bleed to death, I've been able to turn at least 1 of those matches per week into 2k's by simply being a pain in their ass and picking up my teammate over and over again untill we finally finish the final gen(its much easier to do if they also have Adrenaline), then they've been blaming me that I was dragging the match out. I only face about 1 SWF group who has dragged a match out for further than they should in about 5 months time.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/327022/prove-thyself-is-way-better-then-dead-hard
A single smart use of Dead Hard can add a solid 20 seconds to a chase if the killer actually decides to keep chasing the Dead Hard user. It basically hits the reset button on the chase to start over from scratch if you time it right. And it's usable multiple times in the match, it's not a "one use perk".
Not that Prove Thyself is a bad perk, it's a good one. But it's not "way better" than Dead Hard, Dead Hard could be the best survivor perk in the game currently.
Well, Sprintburst is, but its a similar scenario as 2020 Nurse and Spirit. Nurse was objectively the strongest killer, but Spirit was so easy to use and get hits with that Spirit had a higher succesrate. Sprintburst is objectively the strongest current survivor perk, but the ease at which you can use Dead Hard gives it a much higher succesrate.
A smart use of Sprintburst gives you 30 seconds to a chase which gives you at least 20 seconds of those seconds to recover exhaustion mid-chase. You could in theory use SB infinitely often against everyone, except current Blight due to Alc Ring, and only use pallets to prevent hits. You cant use Dead Hard that much, you'd be quite lucky to use DH twice in 1 chase. The distance you gain from DH is not enough to lose chase, and thus not enough to remove bloodlust.
But the amount of mindgaming skill it takes to keep using SB over and over and over again is quite a big gap between how little mindgaming skill it takes to use DH. DH still requires skill to use properly, but its not the skill that people consider is in need of a reward. Its a similar situation with old Slinger mechanics, where he could instascope you and there was practically nothing you could do. It required skill to do, but it wasnt a skill that people considered should be rewarded.
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@WaveyTrey said:
I’ll say it a million times. Borrowed Time endurance should last 15 seconds, and if the player is hit during that time they’ll endure another hit. If a protection hit is registered while BT is active the player will fall down instead.
It’s supposed to allow the rescued person to get away from the hook after being unhooked. A means to counter tunneling as killers come right back to down the same person. If killers knew that unhooked survivors were protected for 15 seconds they would look for the unhooker most of the time.
The moment unhooked survivors use their endurance to protect the other then it’s beyond the intended purposes.
With the way protection hits work, this is too easily abused.
Lets take this scenario:
Survivor unhooks you with BT, then dead hards. Since that survivor is injured, now your hit counts as a protection hit and you would be downed in a situation where survivors literally brought you a perk that protects the unhooked survivor from being hit.
There is no real issue with blocking when BT is active, its a high risk high reward situation, the biggest issue with BT blocking is the way Dead Hard works right now. For someone to block you with BT, then reach the other side of the pallet(without Dead Hard) and stun you without you being able to block the pallet drop yourself is someone who simply outplayed you. Personally, I would say that either Dead Hard wouldnt work while you have endurance or that Dead Hard only works while the killer attacks you(similar to how Overcome works). In both those cases, BT is no longer an issue.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974376#Comment_2974376
you can't not play killer with 1 perk for gen regression
what are you smoking?
If you need 1 regression perk to win about 50% of your games, you're being boosted by the perk and should refrain from using it to drop a little bit lower untill you can play without regression perks. You should be able to win about 50% of your games regardless of the perks you use. If you heavily rely on certain perks to win 50% of your games, your MMR isnt based on skill, but on perks. If you need 2 to win about 50% of your games, you're being hard carried and should stop using both to drop a little bit as you will never have fun playing killer.
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@Souplet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974376#Comment_2974376
Try to play ruin at a decent mmr since boon implementation.
My hex totems last fo4 less than 2 min in almost every match.
Pop ? Take out some progress over 1 gen if you can make it there in time
Scourge hook is great
The game got balanced for years by adding regression perks. The gens are too fast and the devs know it. They implemented boons ti try to give survivors an incentive to do bones, they kept adding regression perks and here you tell me "just take one regression, its ok"
And by taking perks you mentiin, i cant play others like stbfl, md grit, bamboozle, etc
If having the killer to rake 3 perks to counter DEAD HARD is your solution, maybe you should consider to think about ir a bit more.
The difference between survivors and killers : killers NEED regression perks to even have a chance to win. Survivors dont need dh. At least if you want killers to actually go for 12 hooks and not having them camping.... oh wait
I have, it barely changed the outcome
So? survivors went out and stopped doing gens to remove your hex. That's quite a lot of time wasted.
You forget that I included Nurse and Blight in the argument. Nurse and Blight very easily can use both Ruin and Pop to maximum value.
Eh, its a bit too much considering it can stack with Ruin and Tinkerer. It basically tells you if you can ignore the gen or have to go there before it pops.
Yeah, the game also got balanced by adding anti-tunnel perks. Gens arent too fast, but if that's your main complaint, use perks. If they "fix" genspeeds, that also means reworking all genregression perks into completely different effects. And yeah, just ######### use them if it's annoying you. I have played plenty of games without gen regression. Because do survivors win when the 5th gen is done? No, and my gen regression becomes worthless if there are no gens. Heck, if I have Pop, I often dont really use it unless I happen to go to a gen that's nearly done. No need for me to go out of my way to kick a gen and let my pressure go away so survivors can recover.
So? If I take DH, DS, BT and UB, I cant take self-care, I cant take Kindred, I cant take Bond, I cant take Resillience, I cant take Spine-Chill etc.
It's 2 perks, and yeah, Exhaustion perks are survivor resources that are very important once pallet in an area are gone, let alone that deadzones also spawn into the game. Without exhaustion perks, there is very little chance that you can reach a tile before being downed. So if you want to counter 4(!!!) EXHAUSTION PERKS, yeah, you better get to use 2 perks. The same is true for Pop or hex totems. If you hate hex totems, you often have to use 2 perks if you want to get rid of them quickly. You can still counter DH by simply baiting a bit, its really not that hard.
Killers do not need regression perks to have a chance to win. That's like saying survivors need DS to even have a chance of escaping. If you heavily rely on regression perks, you're simply in the wrong bracket. Stop using regression perks and let the MMR sort you where you should be playing at.
As for killers going for 12 hooks if there was no DH. Wrong. Killers would be more likely to tunnel. Remember the month where DS was changed to no longer work if you touched any gen, and there were games with no DS at all? Did killers not tunnel that month because there finally was no DS to worry about, or did killers start tunneling so hard that the devs were forced to implement a basekit obsession just to stop the hardcore tunneling? With your logic, there would be no basekit obsession these days. DH, BT and DS are all deterrents to not chase a survivor directly off the hook. Without DH, killers would be more likely to tunnel, as there is no DH. We already have 2 era's when there was at least 1 deterrent unavailable: back when generators were 70 seconds, killers camped and tunneled hardcore to the point where survivors invented the saboteur meta. Without DS being a possibility, killers proxy camped and tunneled hardcore.
So no, killers would never go for 12 hooks. If you'd remove all the perks that "force killers to tunnel and camp", you'd only end up with more killers tunneling and camping, except they would have no punishment for doing so. Besides, the average amount of hooks in a game is only 8. You have 3 for your first kill, 3 for your second kill, either 2 for your 3rd and 0 for the 4th, or 1 for your 3rd and 1 for the 4th. That's the average. That average will be reduced to 7 after the mori is made basekit, but that's still not even close to 12 hooks. The remaining 4 hooks are an optional objective for the killer, just like hexes, boons and dull totems are optional objectives for survivors.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Killers leave this game in droves, come back for a chapter, then leave again.
And Survivor Mains are like "Damn, SBMM is ruining this game".
Survivors leave the game in droves too, come back for a chapter, then leave again.
And killer mains are like "danm, SBMM proves survivors only love meta perks, and thus ruins the game"
That argument goes both ways. I have friends who love playing killer, but refuse to play survivor unless we have a full team because they have had too many random teammates either screwing up, or being camped and tunneled where the random teammate didnt know what to do because they were not in comms.
I also have friends who love playing solo surv, and refuse to play killer because of SBMM.
If you gonna be biased, try to not show it as much.
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@Annso_x said:
The website says this: "For now, note that each prestige level will modify your Character-specific Prestige crest, which other players can see in the post-game tally screen. That way, you can proudly showcase your commitment to your favorite character."
So I think the reward will be like a special crest to show everyone that you P3ed your character before the rework, which would be very disappointing to say the least, I'd literally take bps over that.
Well, a crest would be cosmetic, wouldnt it?
My personal guess is that it might grant a permanent BP multiplier or multiplied prestige rewards(aka, if p1 unlocks 100k increased BP cap, you'd recieve 150k increased cap. So instead of unlocking 8 million, you'd recieve 12 million total if you p1'd all characters).
I personally was hoping for Legacy Prestige 2.0, since arguably, this BP change is much more impactful than the last one. So maybe at the very least, this will unlock the Legacy Prestige outfits on existing characters. But Legacy Prestige 2.0 would also take a huge amount of time considering the amount of characters. Back in the day, it was only 9 outfits, now it would be 39 outfits. Let alone that they would also need to be good outfits too. Not only that, but 20 characters would be excluded due to licenses. That's nearly half the cast.
The thing is, the devs are really excited about it, a special crest isnt really something to be excited about. It might be part of the full package, but I am assuming it is gonna be something that people have asked a lot, and the only people who definitely would need certain things are people who played this game over 1000 hours(again, bloodpoint cap being increased doesnt really matter for a huge portion of the players, but it does for veterans). If it's not cosmetic, its 100% going to be mechanics that are not part of the game.
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@ChurchofPig said:
Devs: We're going to make sure that we call it a distinct reward
Community: Okay so it's going to be a cosmetic or charm of sorts
Devs: No
Community: ...
But seriously, if they do a reward and give us bloodpoints that's not good. The new prestige system will, more or less, destroy the grind. You'll barely need bloodpoints anymore unless you don't have every perk on every character. Which, depending on how many characters you have P3, that might not be that tall of an order. Even just prestige in general because for every prestige your character is, everyone else will get that perk unlocked at the tier that corresponds with the prestige. (Last sentence was worded horribly, but we get the idea)
You still need a lot of BP. Most players arent even close to have the total amount of BP to get it on all killers, let alone all characters.
Right now, only 50 players or so have the amount of BP needed to get all characters p3 all perks. Changing the prestige system would give about 30% of players p3 all perks on all characters.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974339#Comment_2974339
Excuse me but Do you think going for distance is the best strategby against Nurse? That's almost as bad as saying that you should loop a nurse...
And also... that's not a good logic, DS is, overall, a fair perk (the only unfair situation is when you force the killer to a lose-lose situation in the EGC but other than that, the abusive part of the perk has been removed), anyway point is... no one thinks DH shouldn't be in-game but there are several ways to make it fair and removing the abusive part of it... several of suggestion has been made on the forum already. One of them is meeting a requirement, if it requires to take a protection hit or safe unhook, which are not hard to get, it means you won't be able to use it in the early game without taking the perk's value and also you will encourage altruistic actions. Other suggestions that have been made were removing the frames that gives invulnerability, this helps because sometimes you as a killer have hit a survivor but that's been nulified because they were invulnerable... needless to say, there are killers such as trapper whose power can be totally negated by a survivor perk.
Distance untill you reach an area where you can lose vision quickly. A lot of maps are open, being able to dodge 1 additional barrage of blinks by making distance is often the difference between a Nurse being able to consistently use Pain Resonance and not.
And yeah, I agree, in the EGC, BT and DS shouldnt trigger. I am firmly believing that current DS and BT could be made basekit as long as the exitgates are not powered. Meaning you wouldnt have to be scared of DS once the final gen is done and tunnel a survivor out quickly to get maximum value for other potential endgame perks.
As for DH, again, right now, the only reason why I think it should be is hugtech/alchemist ring blight and recharge addon Nurse. Because Alchemist Blight+Recharge Nurse can down you before you even reach anything you can use, even if the game just started. And Hugtech Blight removes a lot of intended counterplay. That's only 4 reasons why DH still has a reason to be in the game. As for changing DH, I am of the opinion that DH just triggers when the killer tries to down you. Remove the control from survivors and give it to killers. That does mean you are forced to hit a survivor twice, but it would remove reasons to tunnel even more. As for the benefits of that: You can swing towards a pallet, and if it were registered as a hit on the survivor end, they would DH. Since you already lunged towards the pallet, you can now block them from using the pallet. If survivors are running to a window, wait untill they are close and then swing, so they are forced to glide off the wall instead and, once again, block the window.
As for the I-frames being removed, that's a huge no. Because that would basically return DH in a worse state as being exhausted on the floor. SB gains distance faster than DH does. Hence the i-frames being necessary. For DH to remove the i-frames, means to increase the distance covered with DH. Which makes Dead Harding to windows and pallets even easier than it already is.
So I prefer the automatic dodge. It would be no different from Overcome, but instead you're injured. You cant negate Trapper traps anymore, as Trapper doesnt down survivors with his traps. It does give additional counterplay to Hag, but not much. It would be a bit annoying, but it wouldnt be hard to counterplay. Hitting the survivor ASAP in the open would always be beneficial. Hitting an injured survivor who tries to bodyblock and bait a hit would be very likely to accidentally trigger DH. An injured survivor running for an unhook cannot DH to bypass you, but instead you can trigger DH early to make them zoom past the hook and then block their angle.
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@Souplet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974339#Comment_2974339
So your point is
"Because 2 killers with very specifics addons are op, dh is fine. Screw the other killers, they can take 2 perks to counter a single one from survivor side and leave their regression perks which are absolutely not necessary"
Let me put this straight
Dead hard is op because gens are poping too fast. Why ? Because dead hard makes the killer lose tremendous amount of time in every chase, meaning more time to do gens.
When gen speed gets nerfed or survivors receive a secondary objective, dead hard will be fine. In the meantime its way to op in a game that people played for 6 years and learned to abuse mecanics
Considering 4 survivors run DH, and DH is by far the more difficult one to counter, yeah. Use perks to counter it. Every other perk has a vanilla counter:
DS? Dont tunnel off hook. As long as you do not waste time to chase that survivor, you wont really lose time through DS.
BT? Count to 12, not that hard.
UB? Pick up the survivor.
Self-Care or CoH? Often not really used correctly, but if it does annoy you, Sloppy Butcher!
That still leaves 1 perk free for gen regression. Leaving your whole "gens pop too fast" argument null and void.
Because here's another thing, I didnt even include perks like Ruin, Pop or Pain Resonance in the mix. Ruin and Pop alone can massively increase the amount of time survivors spend on generators to the point that DH doesnt even buy time.
As for genspeed being nerfed. No. Never gonna happen. It was already nerfed from 70 seconds to 80 seconds. If you want to slow down genspeed any more, the effects of the following perks need to be completely removed or gutted to the point of uselessness:
Ruin, Pop, Thanatophobia, Dying Light, Pain Resonance, Call of Brine, DMS, Dead Lock, Eruption, Jolt, Tinkerer, Grim Embrace, Corrupt Intervention.
Perks that basically already do what you want in a game.
As for secondary objecive: Already there. Totems, hexes, boons.
As for too OP? SB is more powerful. The only reason you do not see SB a lot is because of Nurse and Blight. Once Nurse and Blight are rebalanced a bit, and DH nerfed, I 100% foresee SB replacing DH as an exhaustion perk, and that is the day when survivors will relearn how to 99 SB, which is gonna make you wish DH was reverted.
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@Breadn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974339#Comment_2974339
Don't get me started on hug tech if you think it draatically improves his viability. It is equally as powerful if not less viable than playing normally and forcing down pallets.
Hug tech drastically decreases the counterplay against Blight. Therefor improving his viability. Drastically? Not really, but definitely more than enough to excuse the existance of DH.
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@RisingTron said:
So, I'm a survivor main, and I've mostly been playing killer during the Bloodhunt for BP. But, I wanted to play Survivor and track whether or not the killers camped or tunneled and WHEN they did it. And whether or not it gave them a win. I do see camping and tunneling as a valid strategy at times, but some killers will camp at 5 gens and it's like...why? But, you'll see.
My build was the same throughout all 10 games: Kindred, Windows of Opportunity, Distortion, and Spine Chill. (I'm a solo queue noob cut me some slack plz. But hey, at least it's not Dead Hard...)
Game 1: A Plague that camped and tunneled at 4 gens left.
Game 2: An Oni that camped and tunneled at 3 gens left.
Game 3: A Huntress that didn't tunnel or camp at all. But, I found out after the game that one of the Steves in my lobby was hacking. However, the Huntress was still very kind of me so shout out to her.
Game 4: A Nurse that TRIED to camp and tunnel someone, but only at one gen left because that's how long it took for her to down and hook one of us. So I definitely think camping and tunneling is a fair play then.
Game 5: A Nemesis that didn't camp OR tunnel...(I know...it shocked me too.)
Game 6: A Deathslinger that camped but only when all the gens were finished. And even then he didn't tunnel at all. Always went after the person who unhooked. Shout out to that Deathslinger.
Game 7: A Nurse that camped and tunneled at 3 gens.
Game 8: A Huntress that tunneled and camped at 5 gens.
Game 9: A Doctor that didn't tunnel or camp, shout out to him. However, he had Hangman's Trick and ate up my Distortion stacks so that was very rude.
Game 10: Another Doctor that didn't camp or tunnel. BUT, I had a group of survivors that were trolling around the whole game. Taking hits for avoid hooks (he had sloppy) refusing to heal or do gens, AND they brought us to the game...was a tragic end to my experiment. But the Doctor was cool though.
This isn't a "Omg killers are camping and tunneling I hate them" post so killer mains put your pitchforks down.
I actually wanted to address the amount of kills each killer got. The ones that camped / tunneled early. Games 1, 2, 7 and 8. All got 4ks.
However, the ones that didn't camp or tunnel at all, got 0-1 kills...even the Nurse in game 4 didn't get a single kill. What I hate about camping and tunneling is that it's such a valid strategy that I can't even argue against it at times. Like, this could be something that's changed with the meta shakeup. But, why hasn't BHVR addressed this. It's such a boring and annoying play style but it's annoying how necessary it is.
I'm also not saying that every killer can ONLY get 4ks if they camp or tunnel. And a couple of my games had survivors DC or give up on hook so there's not much you can even do there.
How would you guys stop the camping / tunneling issue? For killers that camp or tunnel early on, what would encourage you to move away from the hook and patrol gens / start a chase with another survivor?
By far my biggest issue with tunneling and camping, is that the survivor who got tunneled and camped out recieves little to no BP, while their teammates still expect them to stay hooked as long as possible.
I have no incentive to stay on the hook as long as possible, I am already going out with 8k BP at most, why would I stick around for another 2 minutes when I could go into queue and find another game? It's more BP efficient for me to suicide on hook than it is to stick around. Meaning in those scenario's, its also better for the killer to tunnel and camp, because survivors are much more likely to suicide on hook early in the game due to the amount of time saved for just going to another game.
My solution:
- Split killer BP gains in 2, right now, practically all 4 catagories get filled for simply playing the game. Split the catagories in 2, 1 that reduces the BP you get for sticking inside the hooked range while not being in chase, and the other one that gets you BP as it does currently. This would highly desentivize camping as it actively reduces your BP.
- create a survivor BP pool, with a cap of 32k bp per catagory, and divide the BP based on how active they have been in certain catagories. Lightbringer would coincide with how much you've been working on gens and totems(but totems would still fill up Evader, as to basically "tip" the person being chased). Survival would be based on Unhooking teammates. Altruism based on healing and Evader based on chase. That means if you have done 99% of the chase, being tunneled and camped, and the evader catagory gained a total of 30k BP, you'd recieve 29k BP in that game. Your teammates would have to do with the remaining 3k in Evader, but they would divide the remainder of the points. It also means that if you've basically carried gens, chase, healing and unhooking for everyone, you'd be able to recieve more than 32k bp. This way, you fix the issues of survivors not doing ######### all game and still recieving 10k BP because they escaped through the hatch as the obsession, and also fix the BP issue around tunneling and camping.
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@Breadn said:
I know that this is a dead horse, but there are STILL people who think Dead Hard is fair, even against fatigue-based killers such as Nurse or Billy.
There are people who say you can bait out Dead Hard for distance, or bait it out as Nurse when in fatigue.
Do these people not play killer, are they trolling, or is there something I'm not getting?
If you think Dead Hard is counterable and fair, please tell me why.
Here's why DH is fair:
Nurse can stack 2 recharge addons and basically give you 0 distance to gain. Without DH, you're not really gonna last.
Nurse also can use an addon for 3 blinks and use the best recharge addon to compensate the negative, which basically gives her 3 blinks, aka, give you 0 distance. Without DH, you're not really gonna last
Blight with Alchemist Ring. Without DH, you're gonna be downed fast. That's not even talking about hug tech.
That is not even talking about perks, as a lot of these killers either build to slug or build to slowdown the game. As long as those exist, DH must remain in the game.
In any other case, DH isnt really a fair perk, but the same logic goes behind DS. You dont know what the killer is or what they are planning to do. You dont know if the killer is gonna tunnel or not. But if they do and you dont have DS, then you're screwed for no real reason. Since you cant know if it's a Nurse with double recharge, it's always best to equip DH just in case.
As for counterability, well, technically yes? Blood Echo practically negates any exhaustion perk for some time, and if you really hate DH you can stack Blood Echo and Fearmonger. It's quite the scary combo for killers who dont really need gen regression, but only lose due to DH. I'd imagine Oni would love Blood Echo and Fearmonger these days.