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@Tsela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164015#Comment_3164015
These sound like excuses.
The killer isn't stalling the game in these cases. The survivors are, if they refuse to do their own objectives. Until the gates are powered up, or an escape route is open, their direct obcjective is fixing gens and helping eachother. Not doing that, it's not wasting time because of the killer. They waste time by refusing to do their objectives. You see on your own screen that there are gens left, right? You also see that your teammate is down. So the gamee directly gives you objectives. Not doing that and refusing to play the game is the survivor's fault for refusing to play.
So in this case any fix can involve the hiding survivor's position to be shown if for x amount of time the game is not progressing because he's hiding waiting for the miracle escape instead of playing the game.
Oh, so the killer isnt refusing to do their own objective of hooking survivors? As long as a survivor is alive, its the killers objective to sacrifice the survivors.
Survivors objective is to escape. There are 2 ways to escape: hatch and exitgates. If the chance for one drops, their bet is on the other one. Survivors dont need to do gens or pick up their teammates if it means reducing the chances of an escape. The killer can instantly end it by simply hooking and then search for the final survivor. The survivor would be at worse odds giving themselves up.
It's the killers doing that causes the situation, not the survivor. Hence the problem is at the killer, not the survivor. Hiding from the killer is a legitimate tactic. If picking up my teammate will give the killer info of my location, then I have the choice to hide. As long as the slugged survivor cannot do anything to speed up their own death or gain the ability to pick themselves up, it's the killers fault.
This is how burden of problem works:
- you are the one slugging the survivor
- you are the one initiating a 4 minute countdown
- you are the one refusing to speed up that countdown because you dont like a vanilla mechanic
- thus you are the one prolonging the game
The survivors has an option to escape, escaping is their primary focus. If their chances of escape reduce by aiding teammates, it is not an action they should be doing. Claiming survivors HAVE to put their chances of escape at risk because they are stalling is ridiculous.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164022#Comment_3164022
Unfortunatly there are archives and achievements that require the killer to get a 4k. There needs to be a counter to hatch or these will be complete RNG.
Not complete RNG, hatch still spawns in very early on and follows the generation rules of other structures. When is the last time you've seen a hatch spawn directly next to a generator? Only on the smallest maps right?
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164007#Comment_3164007
Hatch mechanic should be reworked to be more interactive and skill-dependent IMO. Then the killer won’t have to slug if they want a 4K, and survivors won’t just hide and do nothing and refuse to play.
So being the last survivor left isnt skillful enough? In that case, hooking survivors should be more interactive and skill dependent. So removing bloodlust, making it impossible to tunnel survivors and DS basekit for all would make hooking survivors a lot more skill dependent
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@Krazzik said:
It sucks but it's the counter to hatch.
hatch doesnt need a counter, its already a healthy mechanic
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3163991#Comment_3163991
Why would they deserve a fighting chance LMAO??? They literally lost.
Survivors lost, but survivors also lose at 3 kills. So why push on further to an unnecessary 4k if you already won?
As for deserving a fighting chance, well, they need a reason to keep playing right? Not giving a chance to escape gives survivors no reason to participate in the game. Remove the hatch entirely, and survivors have 0 reasons to show themselves. Hiding in corners, stalling the game for hours upon hours.
Survivors dont really win on escape, they merely gain extra points.
For MMR they might win through escape, but even through reasoning MMR, the 4th kill doesnt really add that much MMR for killers. The difference in MMR gain between 3k+hatch and a 4k is not really worth stalling a game for 4 full minutes.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3163969#Comment_3163969
That is not holding the game hostage as per game rules. The game will end in 4 minutes. Hatch having counterplay is a good thing. Hatch in the first place is a pity mechanic that exists for players on the side that have basically already lost. It should not be reliable.
Its already not reliable, thats the whole point. Its a final effort to give survivors a reason to keep playing. Not a pity mechanic, a final chance to keep playing. If there was absolutely no hatch and the killer was slugging for the 4k. I would have no reason to not hide in a corner of the map.
Hatch is an option for survivors to tie their personal score, denying the hatch means you refuse to give survivors a fighting chance to tie. That they dont deserve a fighting chance.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3163963#Comment_3163963
DBD players when mechanics have counters:
You do remember that ending a game is a mechanic too, right? And that survivors were capable of preventing a match to end for hours upon hours on end. Or remember infinites? That was a counter to chase mechanics. Why did those have to change? Because they were unhealthy mechanics, just like slugging for the 4k during a 2v1.
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@SuzuKR said:
I don’t know why it’s a bad thing for a killer to try and get a 4K. Have you considered just not unhooking a teammate? Do you really need the 4 escape that bad? Why not just settle for 3?
Why wouldn’t it be disadvantageous for survivors? That’s literally the point. The killer already got 2 kills and downed a third. It is meant to be in their favor. Same way it is when gates are open and a killer has nobody on death hook.
Because getting a 4 man escape actually takes effort. Taking away that final survivor takes good effort and teamplay. Reaching the EGC without any casualties is already more difficult than it sounds, and being able to open the gate and have everyone escape succesfully is quite a task with a lot of risk.
Slugging for the 4k, especially when there are generators left has no risk. Hatch used to be that risk, but hatch no longer spawns if more than 1 survivor is alive.
And I am not saying it shouldnt be disadvantageous, that is just you being entitled about the situation, because I clearly stated: "if a game lasts 12 minutes, only to be forced to spend 1/3rd of that match waiting for your teammate to bleed out". That is not a "disadvantage", that is holding a game hostage for 33% of the game untill the bleed-out timer runs out. It's already in their favor because 2 survivors are dead. Just hook the 3rd one and then search the 4th. You already are much more likely to find hatch, and if you find it at the same time, you have priority upon interacting with it. That is disadvantageous enough.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150352#Comment_3150352
Yes obviously, gens are going to pop. But Im speaking from a 2 man - 3 man Swf.
Me and my buddy knocking out gens together while the killer is distracted with the other 2 is almost too effective. We are both very well at looping so even if he does pressure us, one of us takes chase and the other finishes the gen. Often times we bang through 3-4 gens just ourselves.
I will say it also depends on the quality of teammates we get. We are higher mmr so it usually isn’t an issue, but sometimes a new player will slip through and interrupt the progress with a 10 second chase, etc. But price is extremelyyyy strong when partnered with SWF.
Then maybe, the matchmaking is off, giving you teammates that are too high MMR compared to the killer, or giving you a low MMR killer that got screwed over.
Or option 3: the killer relied heavily on camping and tunneling to reach higher mmr, and now can't handle high MMR survivors who are much better at chase.
There are few perks that I would say are amazingly balanced. Prove Thyself is one of the perks that give quite a big reward if used properly while not really punishing the opponent. There are vanilla mechanics that are much stronger than Prove Thyself to a point that highly efficient survivors rarely run Prove Thyself to get rid of gens. Grey toolboxes are better than Prove Thyself and you can get multiple in 1 match without running any perk or item.
If there is any perk that helps speed up gens that I am worried about, it's Built To Last. 2 full extra commodious toolboxes? That's much more worrying than any gen progression perk.
That's not even talking about the power of certain medkits give towards genprogression. 1 quick heal can add 20 seconds to a chase. That's 20 seconds per survivor on 3 seperate gens. That's on top of the 15 second save when Prove Thyself is being used. So a single medkit can buy 35 more seconds over a single prove thyself.
Seriously, Prove Thyself isn't that big of a deal.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150344#Comment_3150344
the main difference, is the killer has substantially more time to push people off those gens and get some regress going. On a lot of maps, 2 survivors + prove will finish a gen faster than a killer can cross the map (ormond, crow, red forest). I run prove with my buddy and we always hit gens together. We can often get 2 gens atleast cranked out before the killer even patrols past those gens.
Yeah, but that's more on the killer not pushing you off the gen. That still means you've been working on a gen for 46 seconds.
Besides, it's not the killers job to prevent all gens from popping. It's the killers job to kill all survivors before they escape. Losing gens isn't an issue untill it's the last gen.
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Saying Prove Thyself is OP, when its only really good on pushing specific gens, not gens in general, proves to me you don't play survivor enough.
3 survivors on 3 gens at the same time can finish 3 gens in 90 seconds, assuming they all spawn next to seperate gens.
3 survivors on (1 gen+prove Thyself)*3 means that 3 gens get finished in 105 seconds. That's already a loss of 15 seconds, excluding the additional time it takes to go from gen to gen.
Prove Thyself is not an issue. Thanatophobia alone is more than enough to fully counter the increased speed of Prove Thyself.
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@Aurelle said:
These are more like nerfs than "fixes". Reassurance doesn't need any changes, don't camp and you don't have to worry about it. Leave the perk alone.
Doesn't need any changes? You sure about that? Because that same argument could go for old Pain Res. Didn't need any changes. Still oppressive as heck. Reassurance is at least 4x more oppressive and you can have 4 instances of that perk.
Yes, it does need changes. No killer should deal with potentially 30 minutes of hook time.
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@Zamiwami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130165#Comment_3130165
"Maybe disable it for when gens are powered, sounds more reasonable to me."
I literally wrote about the whole "its active after 5 gens" in my first response, did you not read it?
Also how do survivors play "unfair" im not familiar with it?
Also talking about killers playing fair and camping in the same message is funny. And how is Reassurance punishing fair killers?
Dude, there's like 20 replies in a few minutes time, I'm gonna be able to keep track of every single one of them.
And here's an example of unfair survivor gameplay:
Unbreakable, no mither, soul guard, breakout, 2 hook distance offerings, 1 basement offering in the killershack, 1 Springfield offering. Lure the killer to the school's basement and keep him there while 1 survivor works on gens.
That's a borderline exploitive one, but it's just an example of what is possible.
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@Crowman said:
I disagree that the perk needs to be a one time use. I think it's possible for it to be fair while not being so heavily restricted.
I do believe that reassurance whether it's alone or being stacked should never create a situation where a hooked survivor cannot die. While reassurance being an anti-camping perk is fine, a hooked survivor should die if survivors don't take advantage of the extra time to finish gens and leave or get the save. Reassurance should not in any situation completely removed the pressure a hooked survivor provides to the killer.
That's why I am suggesting the one time use. Giving a survivor full 30 extra seconds early on against a facecamper also means survivors have a full 90 seconds total extra. In addition to the regular 2 hookstates, thats 2.5 minutes of pure pumping out gens. Which should translate to pretty much all gens being done.
Adding more than 1 instance of reassurance guarantees all gens against facecampers. 3 instances also equals getting rid of all totems.
There is a reason why kinship only works once on second hookstate only. Having a perk that's equally powerful and multiple use is simply too strong for DBD.
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@Zamiwami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130112#Comment_3130112
That's the point though? If you are camping a survivor, one to activate reassurance, and the rest can do the gens making the camping pointless.
Easy fix = stop camping
Yeah, but it also works when there is only 1 gen left, or when there are 0 gens left. Both situations where camping isn't really an issue.
Camping is an issue due to early game camping. You shouldn't punish a player for trying to get a kill at 1 gen by staying near the hook. Reassurance punishes that.
This is like saying genrushing is an issue, and instead of giving killers a single perk that resets all non-finished gen to 0 on their first hook, you give them a perk that resets all non-finished gens on any hook.
The first one is a nice way to slow down the game, the second one is pure torture. Same issue with this perk.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130104#Comment_3130104
Bringing competitive DBD just shows that you have no idea.
First of all, competitive DBD has nothing to do with Public Games. There are Perk Restrictions, you can be sure if Perk Restrictions would not exist, Nobody would run Kinship.
Second, camping is so beneficial and just the strategy to go in competitive DBD. So Kinship is way stronger than in public games.
If you dont camp, the Perk is useless. I get that Killers wnat to keep their camping and tunneling, since the Devs made it super-easy. But a Perk which just counters one of the most boring things in the game (camping) is healthy for the game. And it gets countered by just not camping.
Kinship is by far the strongest survivor perk to run in a setting where the fastest way to get any single kill is to camp. It's either slug for a 4k asap or camp someone out asap. Everyone would run kinship and unbreakable if there was no limit to it.
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@Zamiwami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130112#Comment_3130112
That's the point though? If you are camping a survivor, one to activate reassurance, and the rest can do the gens making the camping pointless.
Easy fix = stop camping
But it also works when there are 0 gens left. And when 3-4 gens are gone, camping might be necessary just to gain back some ground. Having no risk of losing reassurance would punish killers for playing fair and reward survivors for playing unfair.
Camping at 5 gens is playing unfair and should be punishable accordingly. Camping at 1 gen might be necessary or survivors 3-genning themselves with a hook in the center(aka putting themselves in an avoidable situation) isnt really camping either, but the killer would lose because survivors misplayed.
That doesn't make sense.
The other fix I had in mind is to entity block the hooked survivor during the same time, so they can't be unhooked and give killers a reason to leave the hook without it being a free unhook.
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@Zamiwami said:
Making it a one-time use, to me at least, kinda ruins the whole point of the perk.
The whole thing seems to try and stop face camping, if it's only usable once they will just camp through that one use, making it pointless.
Maybe disable it for when gens are powered, sounds more reasonable to me.
The problem of being multiple use, is that you can have 4xreassurance used multiple times, and kinship on everyone.
That's 4 minutes of camping on 1 surv. You can fix all gens in that time if the killer camps, multiple use is just overkill at that point.
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Kinship is already at the strength of competitive DBD that it's the first perk killers try to avoid. Reassurance is literally the strongest perk survivors have had access to. It needs to be kept in check.
Besides, not a nerf, it's not on live servers
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@YOURFRIEND said:
You can't kick a regressing generator with pop, so I dunno your issue. You can't just butcher perk synergy cuz you don't like how people play. It'll make the game one dimensional and uninteresting.
Yeah, except DMS stops regression.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
PR/DMS is one of the weakest combos we currently have, and PGTW and Thanataphobia are all dead.
Your complaints seem pretty empty, and are just whining for the sake of whining
except you can now stack PR/DMS/Pop, which is the strongest regression/slowdown combo we've seen since old Ruin/Undying
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@MaxIsBased said:
Since when is nerfing something the equivalent of buffing it? Also gens never regress when blocked, so that DMS + Pop combo is going to only regress 20% which happens instantly after kicking a gen. Thanatophobia is quite literally useless unless somehow you manage to injure everyone or you play as plague and for gift of pain to go away just run at the killer and make them hit you lmao. Pain resonance is easily countered by being good at the game. You can counter pop also by being good at the game.
Skill issue?
Thanatophobia only really had a problem around Legion and Plague, that issue still remains. Killers that are smart enough wont simply injure someone that they know have gift of pain unless they are bodyblocking, at which point they can switch targets and push you out quicker.
DMS+Pop isnt the issue, its Pain Res+DMS+Pop. Pain Res isnt really countered, because all it takes is a scourge hook. You dont know where a scourge hook is by "being good at the game". You can at best avoid one commonly used scourge, but that still leaves 3 more.
And how do you counter pop by being good at the game? Sitting on a gen?
You might be like "yeah, but hooking can be avoided by being good at the game", not really. The game is literally designed for the killer to gain hooks. You cant loop a killer forever. You cant communicate in-game with teammates. You cant always predict what orientation loops have, and you dont know where scourges are unless you run Saboteur(which isnt a skill), or if a killer hooked you on a scourge hook and you notice the result.
Getting downed or hooked isnt really a skill issue, its part of the game and happens to even the best survivors. A hit can happen because you mindgamed, but the killer mindgamed themselves. A hit can happen through slight desync. A hit can happen because a killer approached you from an angle you had no clear vision off and you dont have comms with teammates for call-outs.
If this game made every game equal to 4 man SWF, yeah, sure, you can argue its a skill issue, but thats not the case. And with devs refusing to make survivor auras be shown to other survivors as basekit(even though knowing where teammates are is crucial to close the gap between SWF and solo), you need to combat things that are only really powerful because there is a lack of information.
So yeah, either buff survivor information heavily, or nerf the perks that only work because of a lack of survivor information.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112948#Comment_3112948
Yea. I don't see a problem. You still need to be by that gen after 30 seconds. Just the way you needed to be by it at 45. You need to take time to kick it. Nor is pop as strong now
Pop isnt as strong as before, sure, but with the 2.5% basekit kick, its pretty much as powerful, if not more powerful in terms of saving time when it needs to be:
Kicking an 80 second generator at 25% or less meant it was going to be at 0. But did you really need to kick that gen in the first place? Not really. Kicking a generator with pop at 70% now removes more time than it did before. Before the change, it went from 70% to 45%. Which means you had 44 seconds to go before the gen popped. After the change, it goes from 70% to 50%, which sounds worse in theory, but in practice you have 45 seconds to go before the gen pops. At 99%, you end up removing 25 seconds from current gens, while before you only removed 20 seconds.
The only times Pop is weaker now, is between 16% and 67%, and even then, the biggest gap is at 25%. The difference is less than 2 seconds between 55-67%, meaning that from 55%-80%, they are practically equally powerful(less than 2 second difference).
Being able to get a gen from 99+% to 85-ish and then kick it with Pop removes enough progress to be worth walking past it.
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@cluxdx said:
Lately I've felt my kill rates have been very high, so I sought to find out why. I tracked 4 different sessions on the last patch (6.1.1), each spanning 5 games. I played Blight every game, no add-ons or offerings. My build was Shadowborn/Agitation/Pain Res/Tinkerer, and I did not camp or tunnel.
Combined results below:
-Average 8.9 downs per game
-Average of 4.1 times per game that a pre-patch Dead Hard would have gotten someone to an additional pallet or window
-Average 3.1 gens completed before first kill
-Average 3.1 kills per game (77.5%)
-Average of 1 forfeit (DC or suicide) every 3 games
-Average match length of 11 minutes (all values rounded to nearest minute)
These kill rates seem pretty high, but when put into context they're not as bad. I'll go into that more below:
-In the majority of my 4ks I noted exceptionally poor teamwork at points, like leaving someone to stage 2 or death, or not working on gens for extended periods.
-Dead Hard's nerf is likely a small factor in increased kill rates. I noted many instances in which I got downs off of mindgames that possibly could have been negated by DH pre-patch.
-The biggest factor in kill rate was match forfeits. When discounting all games in which someone forfeited, my kill rate was 61.7% across 15 games.
-When survivors work as a team and play efficiently, my games are still very competitive. I had a lot of really good players giving me a hard time, often with some really surprising builds.
61.7% isn't the huge jump everyone was expecting. In fact, it's fairly on-par with what you could expect from a Blight pre-patch. To be fair, I used no add-ons. That said, 61.7% isn't a big difference from what I at least felt like I was getting before, and I rarely ever used add-ons on Blight even before 6.1.0.
All-in-all, I believe the main factor in why survivors are doing so poorly right now are forfeits. When you have a nearly 16% difference in kill rate between when a survivor isn't throwing the match and when one is, that's probably the issue. If you have forfeits an average of every third game, of course kill rates are skyrocketing. So to the ragequitters out there, if you think a match is hopeless, it probably isn't. Don't DC every time you're losing, because if you do then you're the reason every match is hopeless.
Its quite easy why the kill rates and forfeits have been higher.
- camping and tunneling has been very common. Even if you dont camp or tunnel, you might show a lot of similarities with the usual camper/tunneler.
- There is no added communication between survivors. So while killers in general have been buffed to close the gap between killers and SWF, the gap between solo survivor and SWF still remains the same. Which means that the gap between solo surv and D-tier killers has been increased.
So from a different angle, you could say SWF has been nerfed a tiny bit, while solo surv has been nerfed quite a lot. This is also a huge reason why people are leaving again. They basically only play when friends can play as there is no real reason to play solo anymore.
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@Midori_21 said:
So apparently, after you reach a certain prestige level, lower rarity add-ons and offerings stop appearing. One of my friends just got pig to prestige 20, and the only addons he ever bothered using were combat straps and john's medical file. But now he's upset, because those add-ons are literally never appearing in his bloodwebs.
At first when he told me this my response was "PepeLaugh you didn't know the lower rarities would stop appearing lol."
But this makes me wonder, if this ends up being a problem that enough people talk about, will the devs do anything and what will they do? Often times some of the best killer add-ons are brown and yellow, and the higher rarity addons are either busted, or far weaker than the brown and yellows. So what happens if you run out of the addons you like to use, but you literally can't get any more of them because you've prestiged so many times, and the game refuses to put them in your bloodwebs?
An easy fix: prestige 50 makes grey addons, offerings and items permanently available and automatically sells all the addons and items that remain. At prestige 100, the same is true for yellow addons, offerings and items.
I've never seen a reason to not make that rarity permanently available after spending a certain amount of time.
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@Seraphor said:
I'm surprised that isn't a generic Boon perk, now that we have Shattered Hope as a generic.
It could also be cool to have a 'reverse' Boon perk, similarly to Hex: Haunted Grounds and Retribution, penalises a killer for snuffing.
I'm not generally a fan of Boons, but anything to water down the frequency of Circle of Healing is a positive in my eyes.
Yeah, I was kinda surprised about that too. When hexes were introduced, Thrill of the Hunt was added. Now, after boons, there is also a generic killer perk.
I personally would like to have a generic boon that simply shows the aura of survivors in that area to other survivors and the other way round. Meaning if you cant find your teammates, you enter the boon radius. If you want your teammates to find you, you enter the boon radius.
Its not extremely powerful, but it would be better than Kindred for solo survivors.
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@Marik1987 said:
Hello,
I really love how the devs butcher Freddy every single patch, its unreal.
Let us talk about this in this:
Until now, Freddy has received a rework, 9 offical Nerfs (imagine this!) and a lot of passive Nerfs too.
What is Freddy designed to do:
He has a mediocre Antiloop and a Teleport to Generators. Im wondering why the Teleport isnt nerfed yet, maybe only 40m or some crazy ideas? When my main ability is to go to gens across the map, what am I supposed to use? Exactly, GEN-PERKS. After complitely annihilating a lot of Gen-Regression-Perks, finally u found a way to even kill Dead Man Switch, which was his only weapon left. Congratulations. And for what? For a stupid little error in your pragramming of Merciless Storm. At least official...
What am I (or Freddy-Players in general) supposed to use now? You have nothing left, you cannot use a lot of perks thanks to their "If in the Terror-Radius"-#########. Guess what, I DONT HAVE A TERROR-RADIUS in my wonderful passive Ability, so called "Dreamworld", which is doing absolutely nothing. Oh wait, I have the Oblivious-Status-Effect on my side. That sound wonderful, unfortunately survivors can hear a lullaby only when I am coming, so they can easily prepare themselfe for the next Loop (at least if they know what a Loop is, of course).
What Perks did Freddy used over the Time:
Thana, Dying Light, SH:PR, DMS, Tinkerer, Pop, Hex:Ruin, Hex:Undying. Boom, thats it.
Guess what: Everything was killed besides Pain Resonance for itself. Congratulations. Its a "little too opressive", right?
Of course, U can still win against Survivors who arent even capable of holding W and pressing Spacebar correctly when a Skill-Check is coming. Against any other survivor or even team, you stand alone.
Im wondering you havent butchered No Way Out or Rancor, but I am well aware, thats next on the list, after removing Moris out of the game. I cant wait to reach F-Tier again like oldest Freddy.
Am I frustrated? Yes
If you have to destroy every perk my character is supposed to use in combination with his GEN-Teleport, just to say sorry for killing Deadhard, then ######### it, give this ######### back to survivors and let me have at least something to work with. Im so sick of this nerfs every ######### patch. Of course, u dont even noticed how u butcher The Nightmare over and over again, do u?
I dont care about a 10% faster cooldown for kicking a gen or breaking a pallet, thats nothing compared to taking away every perk worth using as Freddy.
Am I overreacting? Maybe
If u think so, let me hear some build I can use without losing by default against a good SWF. Im curious what ideas I have missed.
Oh and dont forget his absolute crazy Addon-Pass he has currently. He has literally ONE Addon worth running, everything else is meme or even more bad.
Its frustrating, absolutely frustrating. Oh and lets be honest for a second: I dont want to hear the "Then play Nurse, Blight and Spirit"-#########. I want these killers get nerfed so that trash-killers like Freddy can receive buffs man.
Last but not least: Dont forget the overwhelming kill-rates he has. If the january-released-document is correct, he was the third deadliest killer in the game. I know, numbers are the most important thing, but guess what: Its only because he will appear in Low-Tier-Games more frequently. As higher u get, as lower his pickrate. Wouldnt u agree @Killer-Mains, that Freddy is complete garbage against at least decent survivors, now even more than before?
The overreaction is calling Freddy F-tier. There are still plenty of things possible, but Freddy's main playstyle is preparing for the Endgame. No Way Out, Noed, Bloodwarden and Remember Me are quite good on Freddy. You use the generator part of the game to hit the obsession as much as possible, while hooking everyone once. Generator teleportation makes this relatively easy to do. You dont need all 4 stacks of No Way Out, you just need 3 stacks of Remember Me and 2 stacks of No Way Out. If you do manage to hook everyone at least once, go find the obsession again and kill them, even if it means tunneling(lets be real here, if you hooked everyone once and can tunnel out the obsession who might run both DS and Off The Record, survivors have had time to finish all gens or at least heal up for bodyblocks, there are no gen slowdown perks available).
With Freddy, I personally consider this to be a very interesting build, as he becomes less mobile the more gens are done, while also becoming more intimidating during the EGC.
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@BrokenSouI said:
Whatever you say. Solo has nothing to do with letting go of the gen for .1 seconds.
The problem is more that there are a lot of times where you seem to be able to finish a generator, and then cant due to slight desync. I've had moments where a gen was visually 100% on my end, but still got procced. If I didnt let go, then the killer would have gotten to us anyway and we wouldnt have finished the gen in time before DMS was procced.
Regardless of the situation, that generator was going to be reduced by 15% and blocked by DMS. The only difference was whether or not it was going to be blocked at 85% or 88%.
The problem here is that regardless of the situation, the survivors working on that gen are the only ones who know that gen was that far. The person on the hook might have known people were working on that gen, but they dont get to see the DMS timer.
But thats not all, they reduced the timer to 30 seconds, which means Pop can be used on top of Pain Res and DMS
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107312#Comment_3107312
The perk is effectively a 60% nerf. The big bonus has such a small effective uptime, then it doesn't sway the numbers enough to be meaningful. With the new thana, 3 survivors need to be affected at the same time, in order for it to be better than 1 survivor being affected by the current thana.
And the stacking math doesn't work. You're supposed to take a certain combo of perks, and compare the effectiveness of the current thana to the future thana, within that combo. You can't just take the current thana as standalone, and compare it to future thana within a combo of slowdown perks.
After it had recieved an effective 40% buff.
And you're kinda wrong, because you're comparing new thana to current thana. 6.1.2 is a correction. You have to compare pre-6.0 thana to the 6.1.2 thana to see the effect
As for the stacking math, its not perfect, but it is close enough, in reality, 4 stacks of buffed thana on 90 second gens was equal to 6.2 stacks of old thana on 80 second gens.(4 stacks old thana 80 second gens=100 second solo gen, 4 stacks new thana on 90 second gens=115.4 seconds. 80/115.4=0.7(ish), =30% debuff)
And that is excluding combining it with any other perks. This is just the flat amount of a fully stacked thanatophobia, any additional slowdown on top of it slows it down significantly more. I didnt add the rest of the perks because it didnt really matter, its very easy with a lot of killers to keep 2 or more survivors injured. Having basically 10 second longer gens on gens that are already made 10 seconds longer is just a snoozefest
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@Sludge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107312#Comment_3107312
Lets not pretend pre-patch thana was strong ok
I dont need to pretend, it was. The reason it didnt seem strong was because most killers were afraid to not dedicate to a chase. The only time thana wasnt strong was due to Circle of Healing keeping the average injured survivors from 3 to 2.
Was it stronger than Pop? No, but you can go to Otz comparison video, which showed how much slowdown perks added to the game, and Thana added an "unexpectedly" high amount of slowdown. Just because pre-patch Pop and Ruin were 2x stronger doesnt mean Thana was weak.
Heck, thana didnt even recieve that big of a buff, it just showed how effective thana is by adding 10 more seconds to a gen. 10 seconds that you could easily have gained pre-patch by kicking an abandoned gen.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
It is not as though any buffs or nerfs are made because something is gamebreaking. That is what killswitch is for.
These are just made arbitrarily. Of course it was fine, as many other perks were before they got gutted (BBQ being the one that hurts the most).
The only perk that NEEDED changed was DS free escape, and only that aspect of it. It could have even used compensation buffs to get rid of the conspicuous actions caveat.
I mean, the slowdown perks in general needed a change with all the basekit changes. If the gens were upped to 90 seconds but all slowdown perks remained the same, while camping and tunneling remained the same(its less awful nowadays, even though the change is barely noticable), then I would have expected 60% of the playerbase to drop out untill the changes were reverted
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/338552/an-odd-thing-about-the-new-thanatophobia
Exactly, like this is very important! I really really wish it was for all actions.
All actions except mending at least. Mending is already quite a pain, unless they will add another way of getting rid of deepwounds that isnt mending.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
I’m more concerned about the perk being a 60% nerf, because the big bonus that requires it to be active on all 4 survivors at the same time, will be a very short and rare occurrence for anyone besides plague.
Why is the perk balanced around this unrealistic big bonus?
Because its very easy to get 2-3 survivors injured at all times, its not as easy to get 4.
Let alone that the basekit 10 extra seconds is basically already 2 stacks of old thana anyway. Having 4 stacks of thana on the old 80 second gens was already large enough to slow down a game significantly. Having basically 6 stacks of thana on 80 second gens was a really hard game to win. Add the amount of time needed for mending(with basekit bt, mending is a lot more common and ensures thana for longer) and a perk like Thanatophobia is simply a snooze fest. Thats not even talking about perks like Gift of Pain, which is a scourge, requires a hook and then a heal.
Oh, did I forget to mention, you could stack them? Slap on Dying Light, Thana, Gift of Pain, STBFL, hook the obsession first and rush the rest. The obsession basically cant do gens if you keep the rest injured and they wont finish gens because you can down them super fast. Thats a 128 second solo gen for the obsession at almost all times, and 108 second gens for other survivors(increasing to 130 seconds solo gens)
After the change, 6%(3 survivors injured) would equal to 3.5 stacks of thana on the old gen speed. But the 4th injure would give a huge benefit.
Personally, I would have split it up like 6% for 1 stack, 2% for the second stack, 2% for the 3rd stack and 10% for the 4th stack
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106376#Comment_3106376
True but people experience motion sickness from the fixed fov so that's why I wanted to change shadowborn as well as make it a slider for both sides. Killer allready has it behind a perk but surivor dosent. We would have to be careful with the surivor but it should be a thing
FOV on both sides would need to be done carefully. Increasing survivor FOV isnt as impactful to a game compared to increasing killer FOV. Increasing killer FOV isnt just for motion sickness etc, increased FOV also means gaining a lot more information. Its going to be quite weird for 2 killers to play the same match, but one gaining less info purely due to the change in FOV.
There were very similar reasons behind scratchmarks and bloodstains not simply getting a different texture for colorblind people, because it would basically give a huge advantage by using it if you were not colorblind. The same is true for things like the terror radius, right now even with a really good headset, Spinechill gives me extra info that a Terror Radius was there. It gives me 0.3 seconds extra info, but thats quite a big gap. At least in this case, everyone will recieve the info at the same time, but you can see how this can work against a killer that uses M&A because the terror radius will increase in intensity very quickly visually, but not audibly.
This is basically why adding an FOV slider isnt as simple as it might sound.
In a game like Rainbow 6 Siege, everyone has equal access to FOV. But in a game like DBD, the FOV isnt the same for all players. That makes it different.
Would I personally like a bigger FOV? Yeah, definitely. But at the very least, I would add a reversed FOV, where bloodlust will make your FOV smaller to hone in on that one survivor, with Bloodlust 1 being basically the current FOV.
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@NemmyMan3000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107059#Comment_3107059
Tunneling and camping may be an issue but lets be honest there is no way to fix it without making killers have 0 pressure in some cases.
Its actually quite an easy fix in theory:
Camping:
Disable the killer ability within 8 meters of the hooked survivor, make this effect linger for 3 seconds after the unhook has been performed(Dredge has a 4 second cooldown before he can teleport). Including traps.
Force killers out of their power within 12 meters of the hooked survivor, including things like T3 myers, if they havent been in chase in the past 15 seconds. Meaning you can still proxy-camp, but you can prevent hooktrades outside 12 meters.
Reward the killer by giving a 10% movementspeed bonus outside the 16 meter radius that goes away when they enter chase or if a survivor is unhooked(giving killers quite a hefty gap-closer and survivors a reason to prevent the gap being closed).
Tunneling
Give the unhooked survivor a 200% movementspeed bonus on-hit if they are hit within the bt countdown.
Rework DS: give them 1 healthstate upon succesfully hitting DS and grant them an endurance effect for 30 seconds or untill a Conspicuous Action is made. So if a survivor got hit by Nurse after Off The Record, then had only a 3 second DS which basically means a free hook, this now means that a killer can get rid of DS early on for later by simply eating it, while making it harder for killers like Nurse and Blight to simply continue the tunnel. A healed up survivor that needs at least 2 hits to go down after already having been downed is definitely a deterrence for tunneling. "but that sounds stronger than old DS" But its not tho, old DS other than gaining distance for 1 survivor, also reduced your pressure on other survivors. Eating a DS with this change would grant the user a lot of extra time, but the killer can easily pick up another chase to keep the pressure.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Thana
I don't like it. Thana was buffed because it was a niche perk, and... now it's still niche. The change will do little if you're against a Plague or Legion with Legion Pin.
MoM
Niche perk getting nerfed. Fun.
Pain Res DMS
Can we discuss the irony of nerfing slowdown perks because of upped gen times, and then brought this combo? Idc if a little weaker, the combo remains and is still dumb.
Clown
Good to see him back.
Glyph
I hope this horrifying challenge never returns. God, the headaches...
Incentives
I don't have a joke for this. A hyped up feature breaks day one, and we need to wait ages for it to return. Wow.
Thana isnt really that niche tho, it became viable for half the killer cast, and with generators being 90 seconds it made it very simple for killers to tunnel someone out. Teammates that bodyblock? No problem, just slows the game down more. And it might not seem like doing a lot against Plague or Legion, but you can avoid 4 people being injured against Plague and Legion, let alone that this is a huge incentive for people to cleanse against Plague too. This change is mostly done to also prevent Thanatophobia and Gift of Pain stacking(I used Dying Light on one build too, just hooked the obsession once for the Gift of Pain slowdown and have Thana do the rest, it was disgusting)
MoM I rather have them remove the aura completely now, then I would be quite okay with the change, less Niche than old MoM, but also slightly less powerful.
PR+DMS personally, I wish they capped the Merciless Storm skillchecks at 20 instead. On a solo gen, you'd get about 11. With full Thana stacks it's about 15 checks. If you happen to get one with Pain Res, grant those 5 bonus skillchecks, making the scourge hook still rewarding, but be punished with only 20 seconds of blockage if it misses.
Incentives, well, I honestly believed that the incentive was like that due to the amount of nurses and legions running thana from day one. When I tried playing any killer it took nearly 4 minutes to get a match, while my survivor queue was instant at the time. I was quite shocked that it wasnt like that.
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@Dead_Harder said:
Yeah i always got confused when people said being tunneled was 'denying to play the game' and then turn around and say the chase was the most fun part of the game and gens were boring.
Well, often chase is considered going from full health to down and having some time inbetween to wind down a bit as you have to make a lot of decisions in a short amount of time, its this time that you tend to sit on gens, do totems or search chests, and most importantly determine your next path ahead, bait the killer where you want the killer to go. The wind down time is the most important part of making chases fun.
Tunneling doesnt have a wind down time and removes the ability to determine your next path. Especially not in games where you dont have comms and thus dont know if certain areas have pallets or not. Tunneling removes all the fun parts around the chase.
People comparing tunneling and chase as if they are the same do not understand the fundamentals of survivor chase.
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@Lyonic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092283#Comment_3092283
I did not know OTR was disabled when gates were powered. 100% knowledge gap on my part.
But the point stands - 99% is a rubbish mechanic.
If a gate is open, a suvivor should be able to escape through it - but running upto a gate and touching it to get out?
This is why killers can also open doors. You know survivors are going to 99% the doors anyway, but the doors arent open. So if you have the chance to open the door, why simply not do so?
The benefits:
Next to the hook timer, there is now additional pressure on the survivors, no time to consistently trade hooks, they can only trade 2-3 hooks before they HAVE to leave, where if gates are 99%, they can trade 7 hooks with little to no extra pressure other than you leaving the hook to pressure them.
You know which gate is for sure open, and can plan around that, this works great if there is a deadzone towards that gate.
You can build this strategy up before the final gen is done if you know you cant get a kill during the generator phase and force survivors to get as close to the gate as possible
Bonus pressure if you hook someone before opening the gate, because survivors are going to be deadly afraid of Bloodwarden and might leave when there is at most 1 minute left
The downside:
All survivors can focus on unhooking and bodyblocking, no one needs to be close to the gate. A coordinated team does this anyway, as the first one bodyblocking uses the speedboost to get ahead of everyone else and open the gate, but this strategy does give a benefit to uncoordinated teams too.
Seriously, you should see the amount of survivors leave the game just because there might be bloodwarden after you opened the gate. End game situations that would have guaranteed me 1 kill if my killer game was simply horrible through RNG, mismatch or me simply making a ton of bad decisions, opening the exit gate is more likely to also get me a second kill simply because at least 1 survivor leaves if I get a down after the half-way point
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@KayTwoAyy said:
Empathic connection is really strong IMO.
The range at Tier 3 is insane, and the information it gives a survivor-in-need is crucial.
Some might sleep on it, but I personally think its one of the best survivor perks released in the past 3 years.
But then why not just run Aftercare?
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083496#Comment_3083496
Well, I can tell that tunneling is harder now.
Camping the same. Yes, dirty and unhealthy but viable tactics are still exists.
When? I'm not allowed to answer.
OTR is the only thing that somewhat slows down tunneling, but the faster recovery times meant to pick up a new chase also makes tunneling easier. Slap on Thana and Corrupt Intervention, and you can basically get a free kill early on.
So since this patch made both camping and tunneling easier as a whole, I'm wondering when hook timer pausing/slowdown returns. I dont see a reason for it to not be added now, chase has been buffed. I get that back in the day it was temporarily added and relatively easily abused, but that was due to chasing not actually being beneficial back then. People would just go to a pallet or window and loop you while a person gets unhooked for free. But with less overall pallets thanks to the map reworks and the overall faster recovery times on the killer side, refusing to chase a survivor thats near a hook that would pause the hooktimer would be your own fault.
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@Grigerbest said:
This question exists for 6 years.
Oh, no, because this time they promised to put it in a patch. There is a difference in asking for something to be patched, and something actually being announced.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
Reading most of these comments let me remind y'all
DS stun time was changed to 5s because of Enduring, and when Enduring was nerfed BHVR was too lazy to change the stun time back to 3s
A lot of these debates are 1v1 mindset, and y'all forget that the game is 4v1. But I guess 4v1 doesn't matter until endgame when the gates are opened.
And it used to be 4 seconds before that, when Enduring also reduced it. So why didnt they revert it to 4?
And no, its not a 4v1, its a 1+1+1+1v1 if all survivors are random. If it truly was a 4v1, then the unhooking person would be the one recieving the punishment, not the one being unhooked.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079933#Comment_3079933
I was just saying, Kate should've been smarter, ik it's not your fault, but there's no way around if the killer wants you out and kate doesn't want to help, this is a team game after all
Its a semi-team game, if there is no comms, then there is no team. The way survivor MMR works, the devs also dont see survivors as 1 team.
So once again, exact reason why DS used to be 5 seconds in the first place. It was to decentivize going after the unhooked and instead going after the unhooker.
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@Xendritch said:
Pretty silly to me.
People would rather cry than learn how to do skill checks and do gens efficiently.
And yet, when I hit 90% great skillchecks and my team is split pushing gens, its still not enough to combat thana and mending, because you have less than 1 survivor working on a gen at a time.
For a patch that was supposed to stop camping and tunneling, I sure see a lot more camping and tunneling.
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@Anara said:
Im a survivor main, playing killer sometimes. Im playing since 2018. I think the game has never been fair like this patch.
The changes are good. The new meta is way more interesting, less frustrating and more skillful.
Thank you devs for listening to us.
I cant wait to see whats coming next.
Dbd is so much fun and its fair now, thank you again.
2 minute gens+mending 40 times in one single game sounds like fun?
Overall, the perk variety in 50% of the killer roster is nice, but the other 50% is literally DC worthy imo. 2 days ago was the first time in literal weeks where I decided to DC and close the game after facing 5 legions with Thana.
Killer games have been too easy too. I've gotten 3 4k's in a row, as a Myers.
I think the DH change alone was going to help a lot. I think Gift of Pain and Thana changes were a nice optional way to increase gen times. I think the 90 second gens were absolutely horrible.
Maybe if deepwounds and hooked players aren't considered for Thana stacks.
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@BlazePyron2 said:
I just had a legion game where an extremely obvious bully swf just simply gave up partway into the match because they simply didn't want to play with the gen speeds I had forced them to. I was running thana, thrilling tremors, surveillance, and oppression. They finished one gen but it was obviously going to require too much of a time investment for them to continue the game, and they weren't going to get the satisfaction of stomping on a killer, so they just simply locker-hopped to annoy me until I finally hooked them all.
These are the kind of survivors that are going to be very vocal about how the balance in this patch is too killer-sided. So enjoy your slowdown builds while they last, I can't imagine bhvr not listening to the bully swf people who want to be able to feel invincible again.
Or maybe, just maybe, people don't want to sit still for 2 minutes pressing spacebar every 8 seconds. That's not even including the time it takes to mend against legion.
Seriously, I took Pig with the videotape add-on and the exhaustion add-on so they couldnt use exhaustion perks to speed up the removal of beartraps. I ran Thana, Gift of Pain, Ruin and Pentimento. I took RPD on purpose. I hooked everyone at least once before the first gen popped, the first kill happened before the second gen popped. Everyone was dead on hook after the second gen popped.
Ruin was gone at 4 gens, it was purely Thanatophobia and Gift of Pain that gave me enough time to chase someone long enough to get rid of all the pallets.
Thana doesn't need a nerf if the gentimes are reverted, otherwise both Thana might need to be reverted back to 4%.
If you think people don't play because they don't stomp killers, you're mistaken. People play survivor because they want to enjoy the game. 2 minutes per gen simply isn't enjoyable. Especially since mending is a lot more common too.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Honestly standing still for 5 seconds was kinda lame. It feels way better now
But the survivors can't make any distance whatsoever
I would say 3 second stun but the survivor gets a speedboost so they can actually get away. If you can't get outside a nurse blink then what's the point
Less killer downtime and survivor have some defence against tunneling
Yeah, but that was kinda the whole idea behind DS, so you wouldnt want to tunnel or you'd get punished with a 5 second stun. If you get a super short stun, then what really is the deterrence behind tunneling? As a dev you want tunneling to be less useful, but you dont want chasing the next survivor to be too easy.
Personally, I'd say that a temporary, but very powerful hinderance effect rather than a stun would be much more impactful. You could still move around a bit, but even mobility killers wouldnt be able to catch up(unless Nurses blinks are just an animation rather than actual speed, which I kinda suspect due to the distance addons)
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079206#Comment_3079206
Kate should've been smarter,
So I should be the one punished for her actions? Doesnt make sense. Punish her for her actions or reward me for her misplay in post-game BP.
Thats why DS exists, so you do not get punished for mistakes you didnt make.
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@Emeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3076370#Comment_3076370
What do you mean, playing Plague, Nurse and Twins is legitimate too.
As a Survivor you know these Killers exist.
And as a killer, you know DS exists, what is your argument?
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3076317#Comment_3076317
This right here is your answer.
DS is enough of a window so that a team member can come to body block. Or they can get in range for a flashlight save. Or maybe they can sabotage the nearest hook.
Survivors were used to 1v1 the killer as if they were taking their dog for a walk; those days are over.
oh, so then where is the basekit comms? DS was implemented because there is no basekit comms. I cant yell at Kate to tank a hit if she's running away from me while I am dead on hook.
DS isnt enough of a window for a teammember to bodyblock unless you have basekit comms, especially not against recharge addon Nurse, alch ring blight or MD ring Spirit. This is why people run Off The Record rather than DS. Because Off The Record still gives you that window of time.
3 seconds is not enough of a window for abilities that basically negate distance. So either block abilities for 5 seconds instead, giving players versing Nurse and Blight enough time to actually get inbetween while not really impacting killers like Trapper of Myers, or change the stun based on how quickly a killer can down someone off hook.