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@sizzlingmario4 said:
If you were hit during the DH animation and still downed/exhausted on the floor, that's because the animation lasts longer than the actual endurance. It seems like they left the 1 second animation it had on the PTB and didn't account for the fact that they nerfed it to 0.5 seconds. So the perk is actually only active for the first half of the animation.
Oh no, I got downed while I still had the endurance effect. Basically, I pressed E, the animation started, and I was downed. 0.5 seconds isnt long, but its definitely longer than 0.1 seconds.
Seriously, it seems like there is a bug with the detection system. It's basically like I was running DH before dedicated hits were applied.
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@Emeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3076338#Comment_3076338
Well if I see two Survivors, one healthy running to a bs loop tile and the unhooked survivor, still wounded running away.
Do you really wonder, Why? Really?
And this is exactly why DS exists in the first place. It's meant to be a deterrence.
Same logic goes for "if survivors see a gen and no killer nearby, you wonder why gens go so fast" and then you needing to run Pop or Pain Resonance to remove quite a bit generator progression for just playing the game. If perks shouldnt punish players for playing the game, and getting hooked is part of playing the game, then why also punish the survivors with additional regression?
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@Emeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3076208#Comment_3076208
Nobody should be punished for playing the game, tunneling is a legitimate strategy, perks are not designed to help you with everything.
One might ask, Why was the Killer not successfully occupied? Why were you unhooked within reach of the Killer?
Old DS was too much a get out of jail free card, perks are not meant to ensure your survival, your teammates are.
ah, so remove 80% of killer perks?
Perks are not meant to slow gens for you, you are
See how stupid that logic suddenly is?
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@Phasmamain said:
5 seconds was fine tbh. You should be punished for tunnelling if someone brings a perk to counter it just like survivors are punished in endgame if an endgame perk is brought
well, yeah, but sometimes tunneling is a necessity. The difference between 5 seconds on a Myers or a Nurse was already quite a big gap and IMO, picking a killer because they are better at tunneling should also have a harder punishment in tunneling than a Clown who is forced to tunnel because the game goes too fast. Since lower tier killers tend to translate to longer chases, that would also mean that DS has a smaller impact.
Or in short, 3 second stun against a Myers or Clown would be enough to reach a tile or for teammates to bodyblock. 3 second stun against a Nurse and you might aswell not run DS.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068837#Comment_3068837
I thank you for actually bringing up points.
*However* I don't entirely agree.
First, yes, three blinks is ludicrous. But I also know that it's not MDR; You're not seeing three blink Nurses that often. Omega Blink, again, very unfair and very unfun. Even if so, those are add-ons being busted; it's not like we called for Huntress nerfs because of Iri head, or Billy to get gutted for insta-saw.
Second, you claim that the bugs allowed Nurses to demonstrate mastery... what? A bug is something literally not functioning correctly. These bugs were also very random, such as the M1 bug or the Blink Swallow/1 blink bug. That's not mastery, it was an exercise in frustration because the game is literally not working correctly.
While I'm at it, I'll also point out that both Pain Res and Ruin are getting nerfed, so bringing it up feels a bit moot.
Well, in the case of Nurse people have pretty much agreed that her basekit overall is fine(with maybe the change that post-blink attacks should be considered m2's rather than m1's). So 99% of her additional power lies within her addons, and thus 99% of her potential balancing issues are within her addons. Basically, the Nurse you're facing relies entirely on what addons she's running.
With Huntress, it was mainly the opposite. Her only issue is that she could camp and guarantee a hookswap at the least and a guaranteed kill if survivors had no comms, if she runs babushka and oak haft. Before, it was that and being able to carry 3 long range instadowns. Her basekit is normally not altered that much through her addons.
And yeah, the bugs did allow to show Nurse mastery better. And while some bugs were basically frustrating, the reduced fatique through stuns. Before, you could stun her with a pallet and then she would also enter fatique, buying survivors a LOT of time, now you dont want to stun a Nurse because it will ignore her fatique, and her fatique is longer.
And while Pain Res and Ruin nerf will help reduce the less skillful Nurses to no longer guarantee wins, both Jolt and Knockout have been buffed and her range and recharge addons remain untouched. Since this implies a slugging Nurse, Infectious Fright and Ruin are also still going to be used since Survivors that are not on comms are unable to find their teammate while Nurse chains chases untill everyone is down.
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@Jasix said:
You do you - I was raised to appreciate bonuses and not whine about them; which let's be real - you are not OWED. It's a game - it's not anywhere near analogous to something like a job - but hey you think what you want to think - it has no bearing on my opinion nor will it affect the bonuses that people receive.
Thats why I made the post in the first place, so that it could be potentially reconsidered as there is a discrepancy between fair treatment and having 1 side get 1 character p6 and the other side getting 3 characters p9 for the same "dedication".
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Is anyone else getting sick of these Nurse discussions?
We get it! Omega Blink is dumb, never should've returned, and Range should be gutted. Everyone knows this. You're doing nothing but preaching to the choir under the guise of spreading awareness or calling for change; everyone knows already.
We know Omega Blink is dumb. We know Blight's Alch Ring/C33 is dumb. We also know facecamping is a problem that will only get worse. I am genuinely annoyed that I'm constantly being told that the sky is blue!
While we're at it, can I take a moment to point out some hypocrisy?
Before Spirit was nerfed: "Nerf Spirit! At least Nurse takes skill!"
Now: "Nurse is OP and takes no skill."
Really? Just really guys? Stop using skill as an argument if you're not going to remain consistent with it. I bet most of you are the ones who genuinely thought Wraith needed a basekit nerf instead of just All-Seeing.
And yes, she does take skill; she's not the hardest to master, but she's not Pre-Nerf Freddy that you just pick up and win half-asleep. If she didn't, she would have a much higher kill and pick rate. And yes, she does have counterplay. The problem is that her add-ons (a.k.a Range) *nullify it, much like Spirit with MDR.
*I should mention that certain maps are also death sentences such as Gideon but others are a nightmare such as Lerry's. Double Edged sword there.
Before Spirit was nerfed: Nurse didnt have 3 blinks unless she had direct vision, her range addons werent also increasing blink speed, stunning her with a pallet was actually rewarding(right now, you WANT to get stunned by a pallet as Nurse), lots of bugs that made a lot of plays possible and you could actually outplay a nurse even if she ran double recharge addons. This version of Nurse had a skill cap that represented the mastery behind Nurse. A Nurse who gained a 4k at 5 gens was a danmed good Nurse, only had a max of 8 downs and would then win the game, a Nurse who gained 2k or less needed more practice.
Now: Practically all of Nurses bugs are removed, her 3 blink addon was BUFFED, her range addons were BUFFED, pain resonance was added, which buffed the already powerful Agitation+Starstruck Nurse. This Nurse barely needs any realistic skill to compensate. A Nurse who gains a 4k at 5 gens now heavily depends on her addons and perks.
AKA, 4k at 5 gens Nurse back then: recharge addons, information perks, would still do amazingly today.
Now: 4k at 5 gens Nurse: at least 1 distance addon, Ruin and Pain Res, then either Agi+Starstruck or Corrupt+Undying.
Pretending both Nurses are the same is like claiming DH now and DH post update will be the same.
The only bad map for Nurse is Lery's since its extremely low map visibility and only 1 floor. Gideon is in her favor since she can literally cut you off everywhere and hear you up or down stairs. It's the same reason why Midwich is her best map.
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@Jasix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068773#Comment_3068773
- This is not a job - so that comparison is non-sensical to say the least. This is a game you are choosing to waste your time on.
- Fair is a subjective term - I think the rewards are fair.
- No one said the SAME compensation for "effort" - they said FAIR and frankly I think the rewards are fair. I am not some BHVR fanboi, but honestly I think how they are rolling this is out is fair to everyone.
- No - What you are saying is entitlement 100%. You think because you put x amount of time and x amount of fake currency into a character in a game you should get more than others who can't waste as much time on a game than you. I have almost 6k hours in game BUT have put BILLIONS into a few characters and only P1'd the majority of them - should I get more than you or anyone who has "only" played 5k hours?? I mean I have "sacrificed" more than you/others. See how entitled that sounds? Guess we are just built different - because I am grateful for the bonuses that I am getting on other characters and happy for others who are also getting those bonuses.
- doesnt matter, its an analogy. The core of the analogy is fairness.
- Fair is somewhat subjective, but its quite obvious that someone who has spend 7x as much time and effort getting the short end is not fair by any standard.
- Fair means that regardless of your position, you can agree with the rewards. Since p0 all perks equals 3x p3 lvl 1 in terms of time investment, the fair distribution is an equal amount of prestige for both. Now, one gets 6 free levels, the other gets 18 free levels AND a border. Even if you think the 2 levels per prestige is fair(and I agree on that), the time investment and dedication obviously is not. 21 million BP should roughly equal 21 million BP. One should not be 3x more valuable than the other. If there is a minor discrepancy, like 15 prestige levels for one, 18+border for the other due to sacrificing addons etc. Sure, it would be fair. But you cannot claim that 6 prestige + no border is a fair compensation when the other gets 18 prestige.
- No, again, its not. And yes, you should, again, you have spend more time and effort on it. The FAIR way for compensation is to give something for that additional 1000 hours. That doesnt mean that 5k hours should get 1/6th less than what you get, but you should get something more(since you spend more bp on perks, this should naturally show up in the conversion, no extra attention needed).
This isnt about how nice the rewards are, its simply how unfair it is to grant someone who has spend 21 million BP only 1/3rd of the reward that someone else also spend 21 million BP. The total investment is the same, so the fair compensation would be to reward both players with a roughly equal amount of prestige.
21 million bp=21 million bp anyone can agree on that
so why does this result in:
6 prestige(no border)=18 prestige(+border)
The fair way would be:
15 prestige(no border)=18 prestige(+border)
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068760#Comment_3068760
Look i get you are upset but those are the rewards lol
Which is why I am making this post. It would have made sense for p3 characters now to recieve t3 on update release. Its literally the lack of time to get everyone sorted out.
Its literally been 5 days since the update going from needing 240 million BP to unlock all perks so you better focus on your favourite characters to get the unique portrait instead, to "nvm, if you happened to have characters at lvl 50, now you can get their t3 perks on everyone for free"
That is a really short notice to go on, hence me expecting them to change the rewards again. To me, all perks is a bigger time investment and loss of resources than p3. Getting all perks on 1 character means you could p3 5 characters. Yet p3 will recieve 6 additional prestige levels, where all perks will only get you 5 as killer and 6 as survivor. Since you have 5 characters p3, that means you'd get a total of 45 prestige levels overall. So wouldnt the "fair" compensation be to give up to 45 levels of prestige to the singular characters that actually gained all perks? Its the same amount of BP spend, after all, its the same time investment.
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@Jasix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068742#Comment_3068742
en·ti·tled
/inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
- believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
Your "compensation" for all your "sacrifice" is the prestige bonus levels - tada - everyone gets the same "compensation" for their "sacrifice."
Yeah, everyone who reached p3 will get the same p3 reward, people who went the way of getting perks would also get compensated for that fairly.
Nothing I said contradicts that. The thing is, a "fair reward for time investment and dedication". The bonus levels isnt really a fair reward since there isnt anything you'd get from that. Lets say, 3 months from now, can you tell the difference between someone who was p0 with all perks and someone who p1'd everyone? Yes, the person who p1'd everyone had to spend less time and effort to unlock new content and would thus have more progression.
Is it a fair reward if someone who spend less time and dedication gets the better deal? No, obviously not. That is not entitlement, that is basic logic. You can get 120 million BP in about 500 hours of gameplay, that would be all perks, all characters p3(at the very least), both killers and survivors. Then you have someone who has all perks on 1 survivor, and all perks on all killers because prestiging wasnt worth it, thats 29 characters on p6, not really unlocking anything new for killers since you already have all the perks. No portrait either. All survivors would have 3 t3 perks. Thats 783 million BP, which would take about 3500 hours.
Now, again, is it a FAIR compensation for time investment and dedication, if someone with 500 hours will have more perks on more characters while having an average equal prestige as someone who has 3500 hours? No, its not. Its not the same sacrifice, its not the same compensation, and it surely isnt entitlement to expect people who has spend 7x more hours in the game to recieve the better deal. In fact, its quite odd that someone who has spend 1/7th of their time, get a better reward.
Seriously, how can you even say they get the same compensation? They dont. This is like working at a job for 7 years, and someone who has spend 1 year doing the same job gets a 50k end of year bonus while you get a 20k end of year bonus, even though they stated that everyone would get a fair compensation for their time investment. That is not entitlement, that is common sense.
I am not asking for cosmetics, nor am I asking for charms, I am simply asking for a way to close the progression gap between players who invested more time and dedication so that people with 3k+ hours do not get less of a reward than people with less than 1k hours. Entitlement is demanding 3x more reward, demanding an actual fair compensation is not.
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068742#Comment_3068742
The devs literally said to manage your expectations
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/56SJTXLCZQUH/screenshot-28428-29.png
Yeah, to not expect cosmetics, which was not great news, but again, I am purely talking about their statement of "fair way to reward players for their time and dedication"
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068700#Comment_3068700
They never said you were getting anything else I don't know why people keep claiming they did.
50:30 anniversary stream
"we're working on a fair way to reward players for their time investment and dedication, once the update takes effect"
This, this is what people refer to when they expect fair compensation. Because prestiging 3 times is just a sacrifice of items, addons and offerings. Getting all perks is a much, MUCH bigger time investment and dedication than just getting lvl 50 3 times. People back in the day either went for all perks and no prestige at all, or prestige 3 and get all perks afterwards. There isnt really anyone who has prestige 1 and all perks, or prestige 2 and all perks. Its pretty much only p0 all perks, p3 and few perks and p3 all perks.
Let alone that the prestige levels right now are not really a nice indication either, since you get at most p6 without any prestige, while someone at prestige 2 will get the same reward in prestige while only having invested 15% of the BP. So people who were 7x more dedicated and invested 7x more time will get the exact same reward. And that is just comparing p2 and p0 all perks. Is that a fair way to reward players for their time investment? No, its not. People who invested 7x less will get the exact same rewards. Having p1 on everyone, again, is only 120 million BP, and after the update, will give EVERYONE all teachable perks at t3. Where, if you have all perks only 10 characters, you'd have spend 270 million BP, excluding all other characters that you would have leveled for teachables(getting the remaining 49 characters lvl 40 is about 1.5 million BP, so thats another 74 BP on top of that).
Its not a fair reward for the time investment and dedication if someone with half the effort gains more value.
So yeah, everyone is expecting more than just the conversion. Otherwise, its an unfair way to reward players for their time investment and dedication, contradicting their statement.
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@Science_Guy said:
You can't postpone something that was never announced. The last midchapter came out on Wednesday, and the PTB for this update came on a Wednesday, so you can't say it'd be weird if the update didn't drop tomorrow.
well yeah, but they did announce the AoT crossover date, and those tend to be released 1 day after the update. I would be quite surprised if the AoT things were added before the update. Unless tomorrow is a hotfix update, which would be very weird to have right before a big update.
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@TheArbiter said:
Who knows, but im assuming tomorrow to keep with their 3 week schedule
Then I honestly hope they reward people massively based on how much they prestiged. Because before the announcement, I have had 12 characters p3 all perks, and the reward on the PTB was a measely 1.2 million BP, while the characters that were p3 lvl 1 had the exact same reward as those with all perks. And to me it was implied that having all perks would get you an additional reward other than just the special p3 portrait.
So right now, I am honestly expecting to get a portion of the 27 million BP per character, which was needed to unlock all the perks(in reality I must have spend at least 30 million per character), back, because otherwise I would kinda see it as a massive insult to those who actually grinded a lot getting the same rewards as people who "only" spend 6-7 million bp. I pretty much quit the PTB once I noticed that the rewards were exactly the same.
So I hope they either changed the rewards so that people who did put in more effort would have that to reflect(because lets be honest, losing 2 prestiges worth of addons and offerings isnt that big of a deal compared to the 27 million bp investment), or at the very least give those people an amount of BP based on how many perks they unlocked to put into other characters. It would be a bit weird if someone who has everyone at p1, having spend about 120 million, would have more progression overall than someone who spend time earlier to get p3 all perks on roughly a quarter of the cast, having spend 400+ million BP just on those characters.
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My biggest reason to leave would be because solo survivor is going to be even more lame than before.
If only they could make generators more interactive, or remove the standard skillchecks and instead at certain points of repairing add something like the wiggle skillcheck, where progression is faster if you hit greats multiple times in a row, but also gets smaller each time and would half the progress made if you miss it entirely, but stops if you hit the good skillcheck. Aka, high risk high reward. Ofcourse this would need to be balanced out, so personally I'd say you would get 20 skillchecks in a row that speeds up and grant 0.5% of progression per great skillcheck(so 10% if you hit them all), but you would also lose 0.5% of progression per hit skillcheck IF you missed(on top of the regular 10%). So if you missed the last one, you wouldnt just lose all the progression, but 10% on top of that. This isnt even adding the idea that the killer can interrupt, so you're forced to choose between a grab or losing up to 20% progression on an important gen.
And you might be like "oh, but that would basically not change gens", yes, it would. Because this would mean that at MOST, you'd save 9 seconds, meaning gens are basically guaranteed to last 81 seconds or longer on average without toolboxes. Currently, you could in theory get 1 skillcheck every 4 seconds, meaning you could sit on a generator for 64 seconds and hit all greats, giving you a generator that has an additional 12.8 second progression, meaning you'd be at basically 77 seconds and only need 3 more seconds to finish it. Thats a 67 second generator there.
It would make gens more interesting overall, because its basically 2% of the time looking at the skillchecks and not your surroundings, and 98% being able to keep track of your surroundings. With merciless storm on top of that, it would mean 4% of your time focussing on skillchecks. Rather than being interrupted every so often by a random noise. Time I could spend quickly messaging someone I know because I know I wont get any skillchecks. It would basically be autoplaying the game while I am on the gen and only require my attention to focus on whether or not the killer is coming. Because lets face it, gens are the most boring part of the game. I'd rather do anything else than doing gens. So why not do this?
And yeah, I will be quitting solo surv untill its made more interesting, but there is still swf and killer to be playing
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3044218#Comment_3044218
I mean you can do that currently in current live servers. Am I missing something? I never seen anyone really use hex:pento or call of brine outside of meme streamer youtube videos. thano is pretty much only used on legion, so its more of legion buff rather than anything else. he's apparently perceived as weak or something.
Well, yeah, but you can do that through different reasons. Right now you can do it through Ruin alone as Ruin grants 200% regression. Call of Brine sucks right now because of Pop, Ruin and Pain Resonance literally doing everything Call of Brine can do, except better. Pentimento is quite good, but you'd have to get rid of totems through some means. But even with all the current perks, because gens "only" take 80 seconds, you could work on 2 at the same time if 1 survivor is dead, then have one at 80% after Pain Res, unhook the hooked surv asap while another is being chased, go back to the gen that is now at 70% and finish it before the killer can pull another Pain Res, even if you have current Thana or Pentimento applied.
After the changes, you would be at 70%, then have that drop to about 66% if Ruin is still active, and Thana or Pentimento is powerful enough on its own to prevent that generator from reaching 100%, because it has 10 charges more.
As for Legion, well, he's not really weak, especially not after his rework. There are some maps that he currently underperforms on, but that's more a map issue than his design issue. Most veteran players actually tend to put Legion on the top of C-tier(which by any means, cant be called weak) or the bottom of B-tier. "weak" killers are killers who are stuck in D-tier. C-tier and up are more than viable enough to not need any buffs.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040775#Comment_3040775
" Just force a 3-gen around Ruin, Thana makes them want to cleanse it very early on, giving space for Pentimento, which slows the game down to 160 seconds for solo gens."
How are you supposed to force a 3-gen around Ruin when it vanished after the first kill? If you're down to 4 gens done but no kills yet the game's pretty much over, killer lost.
You literally ignored half of the comment. You force a 3 gen by patrolling the area, having Thana makes survivors want to cleanse it asap, which is a good thing, because then you can place Pentimento in its place. Since it's a 3 gen region, they would have to come to you. Thana slows them down even further and since you're patrolling the gens, they can't afford to keep healing. The more they heal, the more time you have to chase. If they stop healing, it takes 18 seconds to cleanse the totem. But since everyone is injured, your chases are going to be significantly shorter.
And creating a 3-gen isn't about losing 4 gens. It's about ensuring 3 specific gens do not get fixed. You can create a 3-gen when there are 5 gens remaining.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
I've been thinking about the killers powers in this game and how much of them have changed either getting buffed or nerfed and sometimes being more fun to vs or play as to have unique playstyles in order to do well with.
Hillbilly didn't have the overheat and there was more players playing Hillbilly back then and while still being a fun killer to play as and against that overheat mechanic has made Hillbilly less common nowadays sadly.
Nurse didn't have any cooldowns on her blinks and could give herself 5 blinks if she wanted and omega blinks too. Though many people are saying Nurse needs a nerf still to this day just remember she had all this in the past and granted omega blink is still kinda here but, that needs a longer charge time then before if you want full blink distance.
Freddy only being able to pull people into the dream world and seeing there aura's all game from a certain distance from the Survivors was interesting and it felt like you were playing as Freddy and he was very unique but, also made him the worst killer for a while before his rework.
Spirit while I know many Survivor mains will disagree with me on this but, I personally think the old Spirit was more fun to play as and against there was different variety's of addons that they used rather than now which is mainly Mother's Daughter's Ring and that one purple addon that I can't remember the name of. Spirit didn't have directional phase which made for a unique challenge to learning how to beat her and Survivors had to be caution if they were in her terror radius and she was phasing cause since there would be no sound but, instead it all went down to Spirit has "0" counter play
While the abilities were more fun on certain killers back in the day(heavily disagreeing with spirit for multiple reasons tho, mother daughter ring was more common before the changes and more powerful too, twice as strong, no phasing sound, versing that every 2-3 matches, don't know why you think it's common now)
But one big factor you're forgetting too: corrupt intervention wasn't a thing for the longest time. Undying wasn't, Pop was, but Nurse was needed in that time period too. Ruin didn't regress gens at 200%.
With Ruin being buffed to a point where it actually was useful in higher tier games, Billy gained a massive buff. My biggest disappointment around the Billy changes are his add-ons, because I think overall the overheat mechanic is fine, it just needs some supporting add-ons.
Spirit truly had 0 counterplay. The only counterplay was predropping pallets, which is only valid if you're playing in a 4 man SWF on Comms and know what all other survivors are doing, and those survivors know where you've been dropping the pallets. Any other scenario, and no matter what you did, Spirit would benefit. And while I agree that in theory having no directional sound was fine-ish, having no sound at all was not. And Spirit had no sound while you were in her terror radius. I was actually thinking about a build that gave her a massive TR just to show how ridiculously powerful the lack of phasing sound is. If a killer can stand still and make a survivor slow vault a pallet in front of them, without any in-game indication of a difference, then that's basically 0 counterplay.
Freddy somewhat returned in the form of Onryo, except lacking aura reading. But the chase related mindgames(not being visible) are really fun to use again. After the update, Onryo is going to be somewhat viable again as she can walk through survivors with her ability and basically negate the bodyblocking. So that's nice.
Nurse, still needs a nerf. As long as her Omega blink also speeds up her blinking speed, it's simply busted. I don't mind longer blinking distance, but if the longer blinking distance means she can blink 20 meters 1.5x faster at basically the same charge speed, then what is the negative aspect of the add-on to balance that out? There is none.
If we're truly talking about mechanics from Ye Olde Days that I miss: visibility. Sure, trees were thick as hell, and currently it's easier to see someone working on a generator in the distance, which is good. But on the other hand, survivors also see you approaching from 3x as far. Survivors also have a harder time hiding in grass and behind trees, but that also forces survivors to play more optimal and sit on gens more often.
I simply feel like there is too much visibility on most maps right now. Eyrie of Crows is an example where there is too little visibility, which is also not great, but the big benefit is that it's one of the few maps where survivors will run into you on accident.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040775#Comment_3040775
it's gonna be a bit of a boring meta if endurance remains stackable and the slowdown perks aren't adjusted
second chances and slowdown perks. sounds like something about dbd that never changes. I'm just saying base-kit wise, the game hasn't changed for either side.
basekit wise there is a lot of things that changed: if your teammate doesnt run BT, you still have some time to get out. There is a 11% basekit slowdown on gens. This gives quite a bit of time. The cooldown and animation speedups are going to be more significant than people think.
As for second chance perks, well, the other solution would be to make it impossible to hook the same survivor more than once in a row, which is extremely abusable. The second chance perks HAVE to be in the game. The slowdown perks dont neccesarily have to be in the game. In fact, my preferred basekit killer mechanic is -12% movement speed and -20% wiggle time if the killer is tunneling(based on the most recent survivor that has been unhooked), but +12% movementspeed if the killer isnt tunneling. So the best strategy would be to hook survivor a, then b, once survivor b has been unhooked, survivor A would be very easily put back on a hook. You can ignore conspicious actions for this, since in most cases, -12% and -20% are not really going to impact the ability to hook, it just slows you down a little bit. It also means that as long as you are slowed down, another survivor is on the hook, which also slows down the game. So it would be beneficial for you to hook someone else as it speeds up the ability to get back in chase. Which is what all other mechanics also are for. They dont really speed up a single chase, but they do make it faster for you to pick up the next chase.
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Well, Nurse has currently the most busted configuration. She was already more difficult to play against after all her bugs were fixed, this was fine. But then recently they also "fixed" her distance addons, which make her impossible to play against.
Let alone that 9/10 of these games go as follows:
Corrupt Intervention gives them 2-3 hooks before its gone
Pain Resonance gives regression and info on gens
Ruin/Pop just to regress gens even more
Thana/BBQ depending if they want to injure as many survs as possible or chain pain res as much as possible
once 2 survivors are dead, slug for the 4k.
Its really boring gameplay, there is a killswitch that could lock those specific addons and alleviate the extremely boring gameplay, but they dont.
The amount of posts is basically begging to either killswitch the addons or nerf them asap. Since the next update doesnt have any nerfs to those addons, yeah, people will complain about it. There is a solution available, anyone at BHVR can access it, so why dont they? Same would be true for Alchemist Ring, it can be killswitched. Dead Hard, killswitched.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3033250#Comment_3033250
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnPu298VlY0
Just not reality. Otz tested killer changes with perks.
well, the expected BT basekit was 12 seconds Endurance. Survivors only got 5. That's nothing. That 7% speedboost? Over the course of 15 seconds is barely noticeable, but noticeable enough so killers don't need to count. A survivor suddenly slowing down in speed out of nowhere? Endurance is over. For a patch that is supposed to counteract tunneling and camping, that's a very safe basekit mechanic. Off The Record is only unsafe in the EGC, the rest of the game, it's basically the "don't tunnel me, you'll regret it
As I said, the changes on survivor to discourage camping and tunneling are really effective. BT is objectively stronger post-patch. Off the record grants endurance effect which discourages the killer to go after the survivor as they have to hit the survivor twice to down them as opposed to going after the unhooker who is injured.
Survivors only received two notable changes, but their changes are spot on.
The killer changes on other hand were suppose to increase their potency in the chase. Otz played pinhead and clown to test changes. He got like 5 hooks with pinhead. With clown, he got 2 hooks(9:46) within 5 generators. 2.5% generator regression is great. 10% on pallet breaks, recovery and speed boost loss are correct changes. but the numbers are too low, too safe numbers.
Maybe if the numbers were like all doubled, it would help more. At least they acknowledge the killers having poor chases and generator being a problem. silver lining i guess?
The most scary aspect of their dev update was that apparently, they said kill-rates are lower than expected. in case you aren't aware, The dev balance this game on 50% kill-rate, you know, 2 kills. lower than expected means that killer get less than two kills.
I assume they're talking about high MMR killer vs high MMR Survivor. it doesn't make too much sense for low MMR/weak survivors to be thrashing high MMR killer players.
Conclusively, as I said in my opening post. I was more concerned about the changes doing too little. I guess I was more correct than I wanted to be.
Oh no, you are not aware of the killrates. Look back on the introduction of the SBMM: "survivors will escape roughly 50% of their games, killers, well, a bit different, but they should be killing a bit more than half". The killrates posted were 2.2 kills on average. That killrate is lower than they expected, but still higher than 2. On average, since most killers can basically guarantee 1 kill, their average is 2.5(10/4) where survivors range from everyone dying and everyone escaping, so 2 on average (10/5). Also note that they didn't mention that the escaperates for individual survivors were higher than expected. Which means that on a large scale, survivors were dying half the time on average. Normally you'd expect that number to be the same, but that is assuming both sides are being played equally. It's perfectly possible for the escaperates to be fine while killrates are not due to having disproportionate players.
As for Otz's builds, well, they weren't meta. I'd say that you should look at Dowsey this time, as Dowsey has been experimenting more with the new meta, where Otz has been trying out perks that would benefit from the speed changes in theory, but don't really.
Forced Penance with Thanatophobia alone slows down games massively. Add Pentimento to it, then Ruin or Call of Brine, and it's quite easy to guarantee kills. Just force a 3-gen around Ruin, Thana makes them want to cleanse it very early on, giving space for Pentimento, which slows the game down to 160 seconds for solo gens.
It's gonna be a bit of a boring meta if endurance remains stackable and the slowdown perks aren't adjusted
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@Maelstrom808 said:
Like I said, go do something else then if it's so bad for you, play killer, find swf groups, or play another game until BHVR finally decide to fix her. Stop screwing other people over. In fact, not playing soloQ will make a bigger impact and statement than afking ever will.
Again, limited time event, same logic goes there, why am I forced to miss out on a limited time event, with limited time offerings and cosmetics, just because of a thing that can be killswitched.
I am on break now untill the update, and if I encounter more than 4 nurses using the same add-ons, you bet im gonna stay on break untill my MMR has lowered or Nurse has been nerfed.
Note that I didn't afk myself at any point during the event, but I am not going to blame anyone for doing so during the event. Outside events? Yeah, sure, screw em.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3033545#Comment_3033545
And I've played almost exclusively mid to low tier killers that 8 hook and let most if not all survivors go unless:
1) they are complete asses (and even then)
or
2) I need to complete a challenge
Yet I still face sweaty genrushing swfs...so here we are. The difference is I still play the game and try to get my 8 hooks even knowing it's probably not even going to be close. I still try because it's a game and I'm here to play, whether I get demolished or not. I'll get better at it with practice against them...and I don't have three other people counting on me to at least try to play.
Nurse is broken, it sucks for you guys, I feel for you. But go do something else then. Stop punishing the people who aren't causing the problem and are depending on you to at least have a reasonable chance at a good game while rewarding the very people you have a problem with.
Yeah, but 1 key difference there is, even though your game sucked, you'd get a decent amount of BP every game, let alone 3 flans per bloodweb. I switched between killer and survivor quite a bit, soloq is simply at a point where I'd rather not play the game, but its a once a year event.
Then a second difference, you can guess that survivors use toolboxes with BNP and dodge, you dont have that benefit as a survivor.
Really, consider all the negative things about soloq, then add Nurse that can destroy SWF's 24/7 on top of that
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3033521#Comment_3033521
I view this as a wrong mindset. You cannot blame the players for choosing those killers just because the game suffers from balancing issues.
While I understand your frustration is not a valid complain.
I'd say it is, especially since her addons were (somewhat) fine untill they updated it right before the events. They released a hotfix, they have killswitches, they could have delayed the update untill after the event. Not like Nurse needed another buff.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3033500#Comment_3033500
You could also blame the sweaty genrushing swfs that ruin the event to the point that people want to play sweaty nurses just so they feel they can compete...and the cycle goes on.
OR....you can blame people afking and screwing over thier own team instead of people on both sides playing the game the way it's designed.
Yeah, I'm going to go with option B.
"You could also blame the sweaty genrushing swfs that ruin the event to the point that people want to play sweaty nurses just so they feel they can compete...and the cycle goes on."
Except no, it does not. Because there is an MMR at play. And since I play solo surv mostly, my MMR shouldnt be within 150 points of sweaty genrushing SWF's, hence I shouldnt face Nurses who play sweaty because of that. This problem originates from the Nurse, not survivors.(Thats not even talking about how the current genregression Meta, especially on Nurse, completely obliterates any attempt on genrushing, genrushing these days is a myth, they might still be faster than you'd like, but thats not genrushing)
Unless SBMM, for whatever reason, has been turned off without notice for the duration of the event. If SBMM has been turned off, then yeah, ######### the people who go afk. If its still on, nah, dont blame em. There is a temporary event that increases BP a lot and Nurse games that heavily limit the amount of BP you can earn. I rather use cakes versing A-tier killers than stockpiling all my cakes and not using them at all due to the way games against Nurse go
(Flans, I'm too used to cakes, but flans*)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3033505#Comment_3033505
That's my point, it's sweat vs sweat or you get slapped in the face.
Event or not event...
It also connects to meta killers, meta perks, same maps all the time and the crap around it.
Except, the only time that is true for Nurse is if you have 4 man SWF on comms who are prepared to do so. The addons make Nurse much easier to get hits, there either is a quirk that makes her lunge further too(probably the increased speed) or makes her desync making it seem like she has a bigger lunge.
I dont mind the super sweaty blights, even if I get tunneled out, at least I would have had time to be unhooked and reach a loop. Even hugbug with Alchemist Ring is refreshing.
As for Event or not Event, they literally were non-existent untill the event. I had about 30% Nurses, 30% Blights, 15% Bubba's, 15% Huntress, 5% Nemesis and 5% any other killer. The event? I have 95% Nurse, 3% Blight, 1% Bubba and 1% any other killer.
So yeah, it does matter, especially since I am playing soloq and have no comms with my teammates, let alone that I purposely dont really run sweaty builds to keep my MMR lower than it should be because I dont enjoy super sweaty games. So either 1 of 2 things have happened: 1. I have been yeeted into the highest brackets of MMR(which I doubt, I've barely been playing prior to the event) or 2. People are purposely playing Nurse to ruin the fun of other people. My bet is on 2.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3033489#Comment_3033489
From everything I've heard about soloQ, lowering your MMR is a bad idea because while the killers get easier, your teammates are more likely to he potatoes as well.
Yeah, but potato teammates are better than super sweaty nurses in the current state of the game. Its not about killers getting easier, its about not encountering nurse
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3033489#Comment_3033489
I blame them for ruining other's players game if you do not mind that
Blame the sweaty nurses ruining the event for people to the point where they want their MMR to be lower.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
I've had a bunch of matches lately with that one afk survivor. Either back in a corner of the map, or hiding in a locker. At the endgame you see they had no items, no addons, no offerings. Hmmmm....
You guys are just screwing over everyone, except usually the killer. In my case you are screwing over the killer too, because I just can't bring myself to play 100% against a team that is -1 due to afk or DCs.
People complain about tunneling and camping by killers, but you are many times worse because you just did all of that against your team and the killer literally had to do nothing. Quit being lazy and even if you suck, you'll at least get much more BP out of it, and your team will at least have a chance.
For the rest of the survivors on the team, know that I'm going to sacrifice the afkers and the rest of ya are free to go. I might grab a hook or two from ya for my trouble, but you don't mind, right? :)
To be fair, I wouldnt be surprised if half these players were just afk to reduce their MMR so they wouldnt face Nurses etc. I dont blame em.
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3031950#Comment_3031950
Hot take but.... hag really isnt as good as people think. Sure you have area denial but then you can have a single person watch you from a distance placing traps and just interrupting your web the entire time.
Hag's prime strenght is in that people dont know its a hag untill its too late. But even with that in consideration, she's still very powerful in her own right. I rather face a good nurse(without the exploity addons that currently reign surpeme) than a good hag. Because a good Hag would make you second guess whether or not the loop she's pushing you to is fully trapped, if she just pushes you there to get rid of pallets or if she's bluffing so you'd go to somewhere else.
If you do not have flashbang, flashlight or blastmine against such a hag(yes, blastmine will get rid of traps, not many, but still enough to buy time, especially on top of the stun), you better have Circle of Healing or Selfcare or you will have to sacrifice teammates.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
I'm more concern of the changes not doing enough really for killer.
Killer changes are very safe. 2.5% for generator kicking is laughable. its too little of a number to make much difference. when a killer goes to kick a generator, they're at 0% efficiency in term of killing survivors. across 3 other survivors working on generators, its still net-negative to kick a generator.
tier 1 brutal strength is ineffective. 10% will not punish survivors for using pallets at all. they'll still link every pallet on the map with ease. 10% speed down and 10% cooldown is also really safe numbers that are unlikely to make killers more deadly in a chase.
On other hand, the survivor changes are extremely very impactful. Base-kit BT is pretty powerful effect. The meta perk BT grants 7% haste for 15 seconds after an unhook is pretty big as well. They also got off the record, a perk that grants 80 seconds of endurence. The perk as bonus also grants additional benefits in form of immunity to aura reading and Iron will for 80 seconds. Nothing in killer perk changes have as much impact as this.
Killer changes are extremely safe... while survivor changes are.... well... not safe at all.
Except the reverse is true.
The 2.5% was added to counter gentapping. Demanding a compensation for survivors working on multiple generators at the same time is ridiculous. Survivors do not win once the last generator is finished. The 2.5%(+increased kicking speed) is plenty to not only counter gentapping, but punish it. Over the course of 5 gens, yeah, kicking a gen isnt gonna be worth it, but when there is 1 gen left, that 2.5% instantly removes 2 seconds of progression. Excluding any secondary effects.
Then the kicking speed, while also making the kicking of generators faster, getting rid of pallets 10% faster might not sound like much, but on the grand scale, you'd remove 10% of the pallets for free compared to now. Then the 10% animation reduction, might not sound like much on every single instance, but over the course of 10 hits, that's an entire hit saved in terms of wasted time. Same for survivors gaining distance, that 10% might easily be the difference between reaching a pallet and dropping it, or being downed. 10% is not "safe". It's a huge amount.
Then you have survivors, well, the expected BT basekit was 12 seconds Endurance. Survivors only got 5. That's nothing. That 7% speedboost? Over the course of 15 seconds is barely noticeable, but noticeable enough so killers don't need to count. A survivor suddenly slowing down in speed out of nowhere? Endurance is over. For a patch that is supposed to counteract tunneling and camping, that's a very safe basekit mechanic. Off The Record is only unsafe in the EGC, the rest of the game, it's basically the "don't tunnel me, you'll regret it"-perk. And since gens were upped with 10 seconds, perks like Gift of Pain and Thana having their effects buffed very significantly (20% on 80 seconds makes a gen last 100 seconds. 22% on 90 seconds makes a gen last 115 seconds, that's a big difference).
Let alone that there is nothing done to combat camping, even though that was promised. Heck, with the longer generator speeds, but perks like deadlock significantly reducing the ability to actually finish generators, especially when not on Comms, makes camping quite powerful.
The only reason that makes me think that you think the changes for killers are safe and survivor changes are not, is because you expect the "balance" of the game to be 3 kills before gens are finished. If you go with the perspective that the game is supposed to end with 2 alive, 2 dead, on average, then you can see that your perspective is quite twisted. You would want survivors to have the capability of finishing 1 generator each before one of them dies. And you would want the killer to kill 1 survivor before gens are finished, preferably with 6 hooks total, 3 on 1(dead) and the remaining 3 spread out as 1-1-1 or 2-1-0. Since, for the sake of survivor gameplay, you're not supposed to tunnel whenever you can, they have implemented measures that make it easy for you to pick up chase with someone else. This is also the reason why DS was reduced to 3 seconds for no real reason, because that way you can pick up chase with someone else faster. That's not what it's going to be used for, but that is the intent.
So really, claiming it's amazing for survivors, when they get a huge nerf in terms of cooperation, and meh for killers when they are receiving the biggest buff in dbd history is pretty entitled.
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@Maperson said:
We just have to wait and see. On the paper Bubba sounds like one of the most broken killers ever, but we all know that's not really the case.
Id say that on paper Bubba sounds fine, a killer being able to instadown when coming close, being able to hit multiple survivors when they happen to be in reach, breaking pallets while recieving a stun, hitting objects and revving too much causes a tantrum. Compared to a lot of killers, that's not too bad.
Untill you realize he can use this ability near hooked survivors, and that this ability basically ignores Endurance.
Bubba isn't a busted killer as a whole, but he certainly has one of the most busted mechanics currently in the game.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
I mean dh-ing over a trap should have never been a thing to begin with
Neither should hook grabbing, using abilities near hooked survivors and/or abilities that make it extremely easy to camp or tunnel. But hey, Nurse still gets buffed and Bubba's anti-camping measures are laughable.
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@Brimp said:
You do realize... hags whole kit is literally camping one area of the map right? Honestly hag is poorly designed in general as setting up multiple traps after they've been triggered as a 110 takes FOREVER and some can just come easily by and mess up your web with no repercussions as they will usually see you place the trap and stand on the edge of the trigger zone.
Yeah, so she can set up an entire web around several hooks and push the survivor there. She would just need to exit the 16 meter radius to teleport back. It basically solves the issue of Hag camping after a hook without requiring much thought, and instead would reward a hag who has thought out her plans. It also solves the issue where survivors are forced to crouch, making it extremely easy for Hag to go back. So now, if Hag goes back for pressure, she needs to stay out of the 16 meter radius or otherwise she loses the ability to tp to her traps. And again, if there are no traps near a hook, this would be the time for Hag to be placing traps there before she picks up the survivor. The same logic is true for Trapper.
Would it nerf the power of Hag? Yeah, I think she would drop from low s-tier to mid-a tier with this change, but MYC+devour Hag would still reign supreme and the upcoming changes would also easily compensate.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030988#Comment_3030988
That just means you are very bad against nurse.
Sure, only 1 thing has changed that made me go from 3 gen chases to barely half a gen, that change was a patch regarding the distance addons.
Surely that means the issue is on my end, it totally doesnt mean that my window to react to blinks has been reduced by 50%, it totally doesnt mean the distance I gained was 40% more, enough to actually reach a location where I could consistently break line of sight with Nurse. It totally doesnt mean that Nurse only needs 4 blinks instead of 6 to cross the entire map. At the cost of what? 0.8 seconds of extra charge time, which Nurse already rather uses because it gives her more time to aim properly and have a longer time to keep track of me, she just has more reasons to let go earlier since it closes the gap faster.
So no, I am not bad against Nurse. If 1 single update changes the outcome of a result, then its likely that update that either is the issue with no counterplay, has unknown counterplay or relies on extremely specific conditions to offer counterplay. Since Nurse didnt gain new mechanics, there is no unknown counterplay at work here. Leaving only the options of no counterplay and extremely specific conditions. Dead Hard, Endurance, Adrenaline and enough distance to reach a location where you can break line of sight consistently are extremely specific conditions against a killer that ignores obstacles.
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@Mewishis said:
Because the developers don't killswitch things just because people play to win if this was the case meta perks all over the place would be kill-switched all the time including dead hard, bt, ds, and adrenaline.
Please do not compare actual game-breaking bugs and glitches to a killer that you find unfun it's just childish and immature, if the devs did what you said then all the killers deemed unfun to play against or boring would be kill switched. Which is basically every killer lol.
Normally I'd fully agree, but outside events BP is already expected to be horrible. The average base BP you get against a Nurse during the event is less than you'd normally get because they patched the addons recently. I am actually saying that Nurse is in a state where the average survivor lobby stands no chance against her unless they prepared for the absolute worst case scenario, brought 4 BNP's on commodius toolboxes with wirespools, everyone communicating and running DH, DS, Unbreakable and BT. If that has to be the loadout just to stand a chance against Nurse, during an event, that's gamebreaking.
It might be working as intended, but here's a fun fact: Legion's filthy and nasty blade were also working together exactly the way they were coded. People got actually banned for using that combo. It was gamebreaking and the only survivors that stood a chance were survivors who ran full tournament loadouts with communications while jumping in lockers. If there was a killswitch back then, those addons would have been killswitched, even though they werent bugged or glitched. It was just an oversight. These addons are also an oversight. That is why this case is different.
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@Mr_K said:
Never gone against a camping Bubba during an event I see.
3 out of 4 survivors can do gens, totems and still have a decent chance of escape. Worst case scenario, Bubba runs Dead Lock and 2 people die. Yeah, that first survivor dies with maybe 8k to their name, but that second survivor would have had time to finish 2 gens with a teammate and maybe even a totem before entering chase before getting chase. So they would get 6k-ish chase points+3.5k+maybe 1k extra due to totems, leaving roughly 11k points for the second survivor. 3 and 4 are very likely to escape, or they could manage to trade some hooks in the meantime, and since the exit gates are powered, each altruistic activity grants 50% more points too. Cleanse some totems too and you'd be quite likely to exit with 15-17k points(depending on event points).
Mathematically, that means you'd have an average of 12.75k. Its still low, but its at least arguably decent.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/331117/nurse-issues
No one should have to explain to you why Nurse isn't kill-switched.
Well, the reason is that for some reason they consider Nurse perfectly balanced. Besides, my argument was either Nurse, or her addons. Its kinda similar to the Mending thing on Legion. The addons were working as intended by code. Nothing was "wrong" with the way it worked, it was an oversight that gave Legion uncounterable gameplay that was extremely unfun to go against. I'd argue the same is true for Nurse right now. Except, they now have a kill switch, they could easily alliviate the complaints by temporarily locking the addons causing the issue, at least untill the event is over.
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@Ruma said:
If you earn less than 12k BP as a average as a survivor, thats a massive skill issue on your side.
Note how this only happens against games against Nurses who run these specific addons. I havent talked about Blights with super meta builds, while Blight is relatively close. So definitely not a skill issue.
About 3 updates ago, absolutely 0 issues in getting BP against a sweaty Nurse when playing solo survivor, because the charge addons were "bugged" and the blink time was also increased(which should be standard), so even for shorter blinks, there was time to react. With the addons, Nurse can literally blink the same distance, but faster. So where you used to have a small timeframe to actually react, now you cant even do that. If there is a little bit of delay between players, then the blink is so fast that Nurse gets desynced for a bit and will appear outside of lunge range for a moment, before she gets repositioned back, appearing like she's running Coup.
And again, do the math, what do you need for 12k BP in a game of survivor?
1k bp in survival if you die as obsession, 1.5k if you survive as obsession, 5k if you escape. So if you die by any means, which 3 out of 4 survivors practically will, you have a 1/4 chance of even earning more than 1k points here, on top of a 1/4 chance of even recieving that 1k points.
1.25k points per full generator being done in objectives. But you cant even finish your generator because DMS and pain res, forcing you to go to another gen, but 3 gens are blocked so you'd have to go across the map, making it very likely for you to be the next target. If you're lucky, you can finish 2 generators, so lets be generous and give the 2.5k points here. 5k if you happen to escape through hatch.
Then Evader, you'd think that this one would be full, but not really. Chase points increase faster the longer you are in chase. Nurse's ability ensures this will never be the case, either you get hit quickly after starting a chase, or you have 3 seconds of chase before the points stop being given to you again. So while normally this catagory would grant 8k bp in chase, but against a Nurse who isnt unbothered by slugging you or tunneling you out? 5k would be lucky. The only time you'd get more is if you have had time to cleanse totems. But why would you? Your random teammates are dropping like flies and no one else has time to sit on gens.
Lastly Altruism, your only real source of BP against a Nurse. 1.5k per unhook 500 per heal 200 per protection hit. You'd be very likely to get at least 2 unhooks in the game, 2 heals if Nurse keeps chasing, 2-4 protection hits if she decides to come back to the hook. So this has the highest potential, still about 4k.
So considering the majority of my games playing solo survivor against a Nurse running those addons during the event has ended in 3 kills, that means you at least have 50% chance of getting 0 points in the survival catagory, leaving only 3 catagories left, assuming you had time to do 2 gens, 2.5k BP in objective, had a lucky Evader streak and gained 5k, and the average altruism of 4k, thats 11.5k. Then adding the 500 points you gain from finishing a masquerade generator, and that gives you 12.5k BP.
Considering you did 2 gens tho, odds are likely that you werent the person who was unhooking, so that altruism is probably lower than 4k. And if you did altruism, odds are that you barely were capable of touching gens. Hence the average being lower than 12k.
The solution to this, ofcourse, is being in a SWF. But since you cant tell you're going to face a Nurse when playing solo, you cant really dodge.
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@supersonic853 said:
I don't enjoy breaking god pallets 5 inches from eachother for 5 minutes but at least the rework made its ascetic better. But the fact it has 28 pallets (i think was the number floating around) just makes it the most boring map for me to play on. I don't enjoy just kicking for 10 minutes. Maybe other people like it better so thats why I'm asking?
Quite balanced in terms of kills/escapes, horribly balanced around fun/enjoyment.
The biggest downfall for killers who lose on the map, is that they have learned from other maps that quite a lot of pallets are mindgamable.
But a lot of people forget that survivors have access to a lot of windows on other maps. Windows you cant break, windows you cant really mindgame. Windows that you have to force the survivor to use 3 times in a short timespan so it gets blocked and you can get a hit in. The game only has 5 windows that have some use: The T&L in the corner of the map(often a last ditch effort for survivors), the dropchute(an annoying window, but once the pallet downstairs is gone, its almost always a free hit), the window in the icebox, which is the most used window of them all, and quite easy to chase in, and finally the jungle gym next to the basement, but oddly isnt used that much. Then you have 2 windows that people often forget exist: one next to an exitgate, and one in the double pallet room upstairs. If you can get away from a chase without being hit using those windows, you've deserved it.
So this is basically how you play on The Game: Push survivors as close to basement as possible, force pallet drops, dont try to mindgame them, bruteforce them. Its fine to get stunned and break them as long as you get rid of it, if they refuse to drop, its a free hit. Once you're happy with the amount of pallets dropped, even if they dont get injured, approach from the opposite side of the map and push the next survivor in. This one will definitely get injured and get rid of the remaining pallets that are still in the area. If they try to greed, bam, you down them close to the basement.
Since you've been in that area a lot, generators surrounding the basement will have little to no progress, and since all usable pallets are gone, they cannot enter the basement without trading hooks.
Once you realize you WANT those pallets down asap, and see a possibility of 2 pallets nearby being dropped quickly, you greed for the pallet being dropped again. Survivors might tbag, but they dont know what they have just done to themselves. You would need a genrush build with BNP's to compensate for the massive deadzone that gets created. Since you get frustrated less because you want the drops, you're also going to make less mistakes that happen due to frustration.
And sure, you're gonna dislike the first 1-5 games on The Game playing like this, because you probably never really cared for the layout, but once you eat those pallets for breakfast, know which areas to avoid(the T&L is opposite from the basement, utterly useless for your interests, no pallets that can be dropped) and odds are that your winrates improve.
Not that this is the solution to The Game, normally I do enjoy maps having specific oddities that you can use in your favor, like Midwich and Trapper, sounds like a horrible combo untill you've realized the bathroom is a death trap for survivors. But untill they either add a second form of pallet. Personally, I like the idea of one that bounces back up and gets blocked for 3 minutes, so you can only use it to stun the killer, but it wont block the killer for another 3 minutes, the best part would be that Spirit Fury would still break these pallets. Survivors would get 2 seconds of haste if they succeed, and 2 seconds of hindrance if they fail.
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@DBDVulture said:
BT needs to be weaker if it's going to get a nerf. What you posted as a preliminary change makes it stronger than it is now.
its not really a meta nerf, they want killrates to go up, but by making gens take more time, tunneling is also going to be easier, so all perks relating to tunneling have been buffed.
This means you're supposed to tunnel less. BT is not going to be an issue if you dont tunnel, in fact, BT will most likely help you. Survivors now need to spend 10 seconds longer on each gen. Someone needing to mend for 14 seconds is beneficial.
Also, they pretty much had to make Off The Record the way it is right now, because: 1. killers already waited 15 seconds before old BT was done, when BT got nerfed to 12 seconds so killers could have a second option if they needed to tunnel, instead you had killers simply wait 12 seconds and tunnel harder. Now they added a perk where you would need to wait the entirety of a generator before you can hit once. Meaning you're forced to hit and have to assume you cannot down a survivor who just got unhooked.
Since this means, you're gonna go after the unhooker, because that would be literally faster.
Personally, the only change that would be needed IMO is that survivors with Endurance effect will no longer have a collision with anyone else, so they cannot block their teammates, they cannot block killers and teammates cannot block them. This effect should linger 5 seconds after the endurance effect is gone, so you cant use your own collision to check if you can walk through them.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
Adding 10 secs more to complete a gen, and kicking gens now removes 2.5% of gen progress (just 2 secs lol). Do you think these changes are enough justify completely destroying gen defense perks? Survivors get a mini basekit BT, why don't killer's get basekit Corrupt? Killers still have to reserve one perk slot for Corrupt Intervention at all times. Killers will still have to rely on 3-4 gen defense perks (just different ones) to stand a chance against good teams.
Honestly i wouldn't even touch gen speed, it's fine (it's not fun for a survivor to sit on a gen for 90 secs). What i would do is get rid of god pallets and time waste loops, that have zero mind game, so the killer doesn't have to waste time while survivors slam out gens.
You do realize there is 1 vanilla killer mechanic trumping you're entire "some windows or pallets dont need mindgames": Bloodlust alone guarantees you're going to get a hit, even if you lost 100% of your mindgames. You need to start mindgaming yourself, aka be winning mindgames for survivors, to be not getting any hits.
If we're gonna delete all survivor mechanics that dont need mindgames, then we need to delete all killer mechanics that dont need mindgames.
Survivor in a corner while you're Plague, Billy, Trapper, or Bubba? Now survivors can walk through you if you bodyblock them in that corner. No more free instadowns. Survivor being forced to drop down and take a hit due to stagger or not drop down and take a hit? No longer, there were 0 mindgames involved on either side and always leads to a hit. So now, if a survivor stands still for longer than 2 seconds, they gain stagger immunity for the next 2 seconds. Bloodlust? Well, you'd literally only get it when you lose mindgames, so also removed. Let me think, what else... Oh yeah, Killers now move at 100% in straight lines while in chase, because otherwise you'd hit a survivor in the next 25 seconds with nothing they can do to prevent it, thats a free hit with 0 mindgames. Protection hits now no longer injure survivors, they correctly timed when and where you would be to prevent the other survivor from being downed. That is good strategy from their part and deserves to be rewarded by not injuring them. Also, survivors will be color coded red, yellow, blue and green, each survivor has their own set of pallets that they can see and use, whenever a pallet is broken, their color will be removed from your pallets. This is so survivors cannot be forced into deadzones where pallets have already been used by a teammate, meaning you cannot get a free hit on a random survivor anymore /s
As a gamedesigner, its horrible game design if your player has to keep track of every single detail on the map. So you have to design certain locations that a survivor can exhaust untill the window is blocked, pallet is being dropped, wall is being broken. You'd need about 2 locations like this on a map. Mainly killer shack and main building. They are not free though. Once you get rid of a wall or a pallet, suddenly that chase is a lot smaller and easier to get hits on.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027863#Comment_3027863
Free 4k ? Prove it, show us your gameplay of you getting free winstreak. Not someone else, you (you are the one claiming she is easy).
After the update? Sure. If they do not touch her it would be extremely easy to get a winstreak going, relatively easy to get 4k's too if you slug for it.
Also, it doesnt matter who plays though. Before her bugfix, Nurse only had 3 addons being banned in tournaments(the green recharge, the 3rd blink and campbell's breath if I am not mistaken). Currently, practically half her addons are banned in tournaments. This alone shows how much Nurse has been buffed by fixing her bugs. Imagine that survivors who literally cannot run full 16 meta perks and can only use 2 BT's and 14 individual perks, could stand a chance against pre-bugfix Nurse addons. Right now, both recharge addons, both distance addons, 3rd blink, campbells breath and fatique reduction addons are banned. So you're left with meme addons, metal spoon, plaid flannel, pocket watch, bad mans keepsake(basically Nurses Calling), and Matchbox. Even Jenner's last breath is too powerful for tournaments after her bugfix. This alone should indicate Nurse is too powerful for random lobbies, if coordinated SWF's that would finish 5 gens before Myers even stalked to t2 would even have trouble against Nurse, that means she's an absolute monster.
So yeah, you're not gonna need much to win after the update. We literally have games after games after games with nurses getting 2k's and 3k's, I have yet to see a single nurse game end in a 1k, let alone a 0k. And the times Nurse got a 2k? Because she didnt run gen regression perks.
Note, a Nurse with 0 gen regression got a 2k. How good was she? Not very, I dodged 95% of her blinks(including double blinks). But 95% is not good enough. Imagine a huntress being able to throw hatchets quickly and have infinitely many of them, even if you dodge 99.9% of them, doesnt matter, cus if she can throw 2000 hatchets in 1 minute, you're going to be downed, because 99.9% accuracy isnt good enough.
Imagine dodging 95% of the hits/abilities against any other killer in this game, and still losing.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027776#Comment_3027776
90% of the killers get rammed harder by good / comp swf survivors...
Nurse shouldn't even be touched at all until they just heavily nerf survivors imho, and that'll never happen so.
gotta keep Nurse where she's at,
Yeah, they should have kept her where she was at, before they fixed her bugs. Fixing her bugs buffed her massively already, and now she's gonna be even more powerful because gens are slower, basic attacks are faster and survivors gain less distance. That's 2 major buffs.
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@Carth said:
"Nurse was the sole Killer who could deal with current gen speeds without needing gen slow down perks. Slower gen speeds is necessary for almost every other Killer, but it is gonna further make the Nurse stronger."
Nurse should be nerfed but you answered your own question. 90%+ of the killer roster gets decimated by good survivor teams/swfs. Ergo they need buffs, based on trends and the last stats provided by BHVR killers probably avg < 50% kills which bracketed by MMR probably means 75%+ escape rate for swf at high MMR which is just pretty awful.
Yeah, but considering Nurse is 1 out of 28 playable killers, where survivors are about 80% of the playerbase, what is the most logical steps to be taken here?
Option 1: Nerf Nurse or even killswitch her(or certain addons), then buff the rest of the roster. Keep 99% of the playerbase happy except Nurse mains.
Option 2: Keep Nurse the way she is, buff her even more, piss off up to 80% of the playerbase and encourage every killer to play her as she becomes a free 4k machine
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027759#Comment_3027759
No one knows the rate of SWF vs solo players.
Also I don't know where you got this solo escape rate from. Playing solo isn't a death sentence.
Pretty sure this was 2021, which was mostly before SBMM.
That was a 54% solo vs 46% SWF's.
Solo players have dropped since SBMM. Either playing only when friends are available(half my friends no longer play solo surv, they used to do so on a daily basis, now they either play SWF or killer). The people I know and the people they know, and the people they know, all have stated that the majority of their friends playing DBD either stopped playing solo, or stopped playing DBD entirely since SBMM. If that is accurate over the entire community, that means solo has dropped AT LEAST with 10%(this is generously low, because applying it over the entire community would mean that 25% of players who played solo before straight up refuse playing solo survivor, dropping that chart by at least 20% because the other 25% left entirely), which in turn means SWF's have increased by 10%. So you'd have a 44% to 56% comparison.
The worst part? this is assuming that SOLO means solo surv, not 1 player lobbies, because killer lobbies are always 1 player.
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@Avocium said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027729#Comment_3027729
first of all idk what youre smoking if you dont know about half the killer roster can be looped indefinitely. I have no problem with various ways a survivor can extend a chase to 20, 30, or 40 seconds with mind games - but there is a problem if it is due to map abuse which it often is with 4 swf.
survivors can loop very easily because they have 3rd person perspective, it is not hard at all. they can stun with flashlight and grenade upon pickup, there are places where they can basically disappear into bushes on many maps as well, and you believe that a 20+ second chase time is reasonable for a chase with no pallet? With 3 gens left a 20 second chase is all you need in 4 swf
I played every single killer, not a single killer can be looped indefinitely. If you've been looped indefinitely, you've been playing against survivors who are at least 3x as good as you are.
"they can stun with flashlight and grenade upon pickup"
So, every survivor gains either a flashlight or a flash grenade basekit, no more durability, got it.
"there are places where they can basically disappear into bushes"
Ah, but there is a thing called sound. They might visually disappear, but you can perfectly hear which direction they are from your POV. If they went ahead of you into a bush, you can hear footsteps on your left or right, and bam, problem solved.
"with 3 gens left, a 20 second chase is all you need", no, you dont, because gens will take 90 seconds, that means you need a 90 second chase to pop. Otherwise you can hook them, so 1 would need to go for the unhook, 1 would be on the gen, and 1 would be in chase. Ruin alone would regress gens fast enough, Pop, Call of Brine, Overcharge and Pain Resonance would slow the game more than enough to down a survivor within the next 60 seconds, meaning out of those 3 gens, maybe 1 has popped. And repeat.
Since there are no loops, 20 seconds chase means you can down and hook a survivor within 40 seconds of finding them. So you can chase 1 survivor off a gen, use Overcharge+pop, go to the next gen, use Overcharge again, and now at least 1 generator will be regressing at 400%. Then chase that survivor, hook them again within 40 seconds, and only 1 gen has popped, go to the one gen you kicked first before and now you've gained 2 hooks for the price of only 1 gen, and the rest being practically 0% progression.
That means on paper, you would easily have 10 hooks on 5 gens, only 2 survivors surviving, both on dead hook, so you can slug for a 4k easily. This is already quite bad. But it gets worse, with that optimal survivor strategy, you can kill 1 survivor in about 5 hooks(they would HAVE to work on gens, heal teammates or unhook them), so no risk of DS, or they basically tell you that you've gained a ton of time. Since the first survivor would die at 2.5 gens being done, now you'd have 1 survivor on hook, 1 in chase and 1 in need of unhooking+healing. Since there are no loops, you can now guarantee to kill your second survivor, assuming you didnt do so before(which you could have done). Leaving only 1 survivor that can do chase, and 1 that can do gens. Now maybe the 3rd gen pops, you have 1 survivor on hook, and 1 that cannot be on gens, they are either trying to unhook, or in chase.
So now, to make it fair for survivors, 2 generators are being removed from the game because there are no more windows and pallets.
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@TheLastHook said:
You can play Nurse, too. Ah no, you don't kill anyone because is not that easy to play Killer.
I had a 4k on my first try, a 2k on my second try, a 3k on my 3rd and a 1k on my 4th try(people hid all game, the game lasted nearly 4 minutes before I finally found my first survivor because a generator popped, popping 3 gens right after, because they waited untill I continued my patrol to start working on gens). I only used the recharge addons and tier 1 slowdown perks.
You dont need to be good, you get plenty of tries to down. The only time you'd lose, is 3 man SWFs, who you do not encounter untill you've basically played 50+ games, which is plenty to learn her basics and start using the distance addons. Especially in combination with recharge addons. That means you have to wait a tiny bit longer, but you blink faster to your target, giving them less time to react.
So really, your point is kinda moot. Nurse has entered the realm where she is very hard to master, sure, but her addons and current perks make it easy enough to simply spam your ability untill you hit. The past 5 games against Nurse were games where Nurse was literally carried by her addons and perks. She wasnt good, fell for every mindgame, but mindgames dont really matter if the walls are super thin and there are no thick trees, because she can just blink once nearby, and if you're not within lunge range, you blink again and you'd be within lunge range before the survivor even has a chance to use any counterplay that works against basekit Nurse.
Since her addons basically give her no counterplay in chase, her perks can be focussed on either information or gen slowdown.
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@DBD78 said:
In high MMR solo is fun and balanced, that is something at least. I do think they will give solos more information in the game soon, they have to after these changes that I think is good because killer really needs buffing.
Many of us have said "play survivor" for a few years now when killers have complained, so now..play killer perhaps?
But even with that extra info, there is no coordination, and coordination is truly what makes SWF powerful. SWF can basically have permanent kindred of info available, except whenever they have vision on the killer rather than the killer being near the survivor. I could be chased, see the killer on the second floor, deciding to go where my teammate claims he was working on a gen, and BAM, this situation was basically 50% of the perks in the game. The only perks they would need are Dead Hard, DS, BT and Kinship, any other perk would maybe speed up the game, but ultimately unneccesary as the above perks would prevent any kill in the first place. CoH? Nah, they just call out where they are and you can be healed up in 16 seconds, maybe even do a gen faster too since you're already there.
@Tsulan said:
There's 2 possibilities.
1. The amount of SWF is so high, that it drags the kill rates down, even for solos.
2. Solos aren't as bad as you wanna make them.
Except you're forgetting this:
A swf has a greater chance of a 3-4 man escape, even if this is a 2-man swf, a full team of solo's is very likely to have a 0-1 man escape. This alone would mean that 3-4 man escapes happen slightly more often than a 0-1 man escape. SWF also means 2 man escapes are practically guaranteed, where a 2 man escape would be quite rare for a full team of solo's.
This means that based on that alone, SWF's together would have an escape rate of 2.8-ish, Solo's would have an escaperate of 1.3-ish per game, The rate of SWF's overall is about 50/50. This would mean that on average, based on this alone, while solos have a horrendous escape rate when put together, the survivor total average would be 2.1 escapes. And this isnt even considering deathrates of individual survivors. SWF's are more likely to save whoever they teamed up with, and rather let you die on hook. So in those games where 3 survivors escape, in a 2-man swf, that means you have a 45% chance of being dead. In 3 man SWF, thats a 95% chance that you are dead.
This combined, would have average killrates being 1.9 kills per match, while the solo deathrate can be as much as 75%. Thats a possibility where killrates are too low, while solo survivor is still horrendous.
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@Avocium said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027480#Comment_3027480
so you're just afraid of new opinions then or can't explain why this is a bad idea?
Looping is no skill map abuse that can buy a ######### ton of time for survivors unless killer immediately gives up chase. Many slower killers can get looped indefinitely. Are you saying this is good game design then? Even without looping you can mindgame to buy plenty of time so please explain why looping should continue to exist other than to provide literal escape areas against some killers at best and buy an extra 30 seconds to a minute against other killers at worst
Looping does require skill, the difference between a 20 second chase and a 5 gen chase is literally based on mindgaming skill. Slower killers cannot get looped indefinitely, plenty of resources and/or actions the killer can do to prevent that from happening. Either 1 of the following 2 scenario's are happening if the killer is being looped indefinitely:
- the survivor is 100x more skilled in mindgaming and you've fallen for it every single time that it mattered
- the killer is switching targets too often, and refuses to dedicate to a chase with anyone
Both instances are the killer's fault.
As for mindgaming a killer, sure, mindgame a killer for 15 seconds around without any pallets or windows, literally hold shift+w and run against a wall, oh wait? You get hit in 10 seconds, oh, whats this? the killer gets their attack refreshed faster, the survivor gets less distance and now the killer can shave off 5 additional seconds off a chase since there are no windows and pallets, and just gains free 5% after 15 seconds. So you'd be downed within 30 seconds without any loops. And that is pure m1 killers, excluding abilities.
Killer abilities alone means that loops should exist. Otherwise the maximum chasetime is 40 seconds. Even with mindgames, because while a good mindgame can buy 2 seconds of time, that 5% bonus buys the killer much more time per chase. So if you want to remove loops, all killer abilities might aswell be removed, this would also solve killers who can facecamp very easily. Since there are no more abilities, might aswell make everyone 115%. Since they are 115%, they would all have a 32 meter terror radius, and since they all have no abilities to hide the TR, they wouldnt need lullaby's either. But that would mean all killers are the exact same character, just with a different skin.
Removing the ability of looping would literally reduce the killer gameplay to Spasmodic Breath Nurse gameplay, permanently. So what's your choice? Keep loops or keep killer abilities, you cant have both.