Predated
Predated
About
- Username
- Predated
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2957911#Comment_2957911
......Reworks are nerfs and buffs. Boil Over was reworked and it ended up being a buff for the perk. Acting like reworking things is neutral is absurd. The result is either lesser or greater than what it was cuz you're keeping the same basic conceit of the perk.
In any case I'm incredibly skeptical. Apparently forcing people to watch a mori animation is a good idea to some people on this dev team, so who knows what other random stuff they have in mind.
Not really. Reworks are when perks are altered. And yeah, reworking is neutral, it's taking a perk, altering it's mechanics and making it fit the current meta. If that makes the perk stronger, it just shows how outdated the perk was. Boil Over recieved an extra mechanic, which arguably is it's main mechanic now.
Ruin was reworked, and current Ruin is objectively stronger. Did Ruin recieve a buff? No.
Reworks can also mean it's getting weaker, which often mean the perks are dictating the meta. The following perks absolutely dictate the meta:
- ruin
- pop
- dh
- ds
- bt
- corrupt
- undying
- BBQ(the odd one out in terms of power, mainly used for it's BP rewards).
For the meta to change, some of these effects either need to be made (semi-)basekit. As examples: BT is a very big contender of being basekit, BBQ will probably see the BP rewards removed from the perk and turned basekit while getting it's aura reading buffed)
Pop and Ruin made it so that perks like Jolt, Eruption and Oppression are relatively weak. If you want Eruption to be better, both Pop and Ruin as perks need to be weaker. Kicking a gen and downing a survivor is a huge requirement for only 6% regression, but it cannot be buffed because of the meta.
Calling reworks a buff or a nerf because "perk stronger/weaker" is not understanding why it's called a rework. You could maybe refer to it as a negative or positive rework, implying the perk was stronger or weaker, but reworks are intended to match the meta or move perks away from the meta.
-
"Depending how close you are to server and how fast your internet is decides how quickly this is. we call it ping."
Thats what I meant with "The server validation doesnt favor any side, it favors the data that enters the server first.". If your ping is worse than the survivor, and your inputs are the same, the survivor will always be in favor. If your ping is better than the survivor and the inputs the same, it favors you.
"The server has to choose to favor one side in certain instances."
If their package arrives first, they will be favored. Survivors can still be downed mid-DH animation, the animation just flows over to the downed animation(relatively smooth, so you dont really notice). And as killer, you get a slightly sped-up animation which is easier to notice if you look at it, but its still smooth enough to not really notice if you pay attention to where the survivors are going.
"As a result of this interaction, it was changed to favor survivor unconditionally. In other words, as long you press E on your screen, the killer does not get hit. It is simple as that."
Thats the thing, they do. I've had times where my character started dabbing after an E press and I still got downed on the floor. There still is desync, but it doesnt favor any specific side. The only reason why it seems to favor survivor is because there wasnt a hit validation before. And on the killer POV you never see the DH animation start as you down. But on the survivor POV you never see the killer miss animation being sped up either.
And the fact that my DH animation has been interrupted and put me on the floor would hard counter the fact your claim that "as long you press E on your screen, the killer does not get hit.". Because with that logic, my DH animation wouldnt have been cancelled.
"I wouldn't say her ability is luck based or anything, but server does rob you from hits every now and again."
oh definitely, but it should, on average, cancel out by the amount of hits that were misses on the survivor POV. So basically, as a killer, you NEVER see hits that should have been misses. you ONLY see misses that should have been hits. Just as a survivor, you ONLY see hits that should have been misses, you NEVER see misses that should have been hits.
So really, there is no playing favourites here, its just confirmation bias.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2962487#Comment_2962487
Look, i see you put a lot of work into this. But the perks don´t work like you think they work. Starting with SC stacking with CoH. I stronly recommend you try this out. No, it doesn´t take 64 second to heal with SC inside the CoH radius. The stacking means that the heal is much, much shorter than using each of them alone. SC also has a longer healing period than CoH, despite the "50% healing reduction". Here is a video that shows them side by side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6FQUoo7xg
Oh and i won´t bother commenting on the rest of what you wrote, because according to you i´m a lyer. Which isn´t really a good way to start a discussion.
Anyway, have fun!
"Starting with SC stacking with CoH. I stronly recommend you try this out. No, it doesn´t take 64 second to heal with SC inside the CoH radius."
I stated "IF" in front, I didnt say it stacked, I know it doesnt stack, I was simply replying to you saying "That SC and BK both stack with CoH" You were the one saying SC stacked. As for the healing being faster, I found out the discrepancy, the only reason its faster is because the self-healing speed is set at 32 seconds(at least, that's how I understand the math, normally its (total charges)/((1+buff+buff)*(1-debuff)*(1-debuff)), but in CoH's case, its ((charges)/(1-0,5)) and then divides by the buff. Which leads to the question: how do additional debuffs apply) for the self-care action and then CoH's healing speed is applied. This isnt normally how the math works. You're not being debuffed by CoH at all, you're required healing charges double. But you cant stack SC with CoH for the same reason why you wont use Unbreakable if you have Exponential: The perks are overridden.
"Oh and i won´t bother commenting on the rest of what you wrote, because according to you i´m a lyer."
I mean, I simply debunked your statements. I was ignorant on how CoH exactly works, sure, but that's because up untill now, not a single perk has changed the math of perks in DBD. Especially since the devs heavily implied that the self-heal would be as if you had the debuff, and only recieve the buff on healing others. That being said, even with the inaccuracy of how CoH exactly works, the remaining arguments still hold up. Besides, the healing speed is still reduced by 50% on both ends. CoH ends up beating SC in terms of speed by also applying a buff. Even in that scenario, you'd only save about 8 seconds, which means that if CoH is further than 16 meters away, you still lose time over Self-Care, which can be applied instantly. 16 meters is about the length of 2 border wall sections. Thats not that big. On smaller maps, like The Game, where the map is roughly 60 by 60 meters, its very easy to do so, as placing the boon in the middle of the map only means you, at most, have to run 14 meters. But on bigger maps? You'd be surprised how often you are more than 40 meters away from any single totem(aura+time needing to run there), meaning that in those cases, you'd still lose time over just using Self-Care unless you keep staying injured untill you happen to walk there, but staying injured with a heal that lasts longer than 20 seconds isnt really a good thing these days. Unless the killer can instadown(in which case, CoH doesnt really do ######### anyway), its almost always better to heal up these days.
-
@HectorBrando said:
Because having a lunge half the size of Mothers Dwelling is EW3+Coup Myers or Nurse thing not Wraiths.
P.D. Yes I know Nurse lunge is the same as the rest, but the way she is coded and moves makes her look like she has insane lunge, bigger than Myers at EW3.
Her lunge range looks like that because she has a very long window to keep lunging after a blink. As for range, post-uncloak Wraith has always lunged further than Myers.
-
@Leachy_Jr said:
No I'm not talking about the shadownerf he got in a recent update, I'm talking about the post cloak lunge speed boost. It got nerfed from 1.25s to 1s.
Similar to the pinhead add on changes I cannot understand this nerf.
He got a buff so he wasn't bottom tier anymore, which made him mid tier, then got nerfed back down to bottom tier?????????? Now he's barely played anymore because I really liked speed boost mindgames.
As of my understanding, there were some tiles where counterplay was impossible. The only places where you would want counterplay to be impossible is out in the open. Going to a tile only to be downed faster than if you were holding shift+W(without being able to do anything about it), when there is an interest in making shift+w less interesting is simply not a good decision.
Nerfing it from 1.25 to 1 second made counterplay possible on those tiles, making it more interesting for survivors to go towards a tile, rather than holding shift+w. They can still mess up, or the killer can still outplay them, its just no longer a low risk(or in those cases, no risk) guaranteed hit.
For Pinhead, arguably the same was true. Guaranteed hits with very low risk or maybe even no risk.
I would love to see compensation in terms of turning the 0.25 seconds into an addon instead. Like, making Shadow Dance - White basekit and changing that addon into post-lunge speed boost. Because cloaking with Shadow Dance White and then breaking a pallet is slower than regularly breaking the pallet, it doesnt start being beneficial unless you break 3 or more things. So swapping the effects, IMO, would have been great.
-
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2962367#Comment_2962367
I'd still run it on nurse, blight, Billy, etc
I think Make Your Choice in combination with Scourge Floods of Rage is much better for Nurse tho.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2961302#Comment_2961302
Oh cool, you´re moving the goal post by presenting perks that i never mentioned.
- BBQ stronger than Ruin. Double bloodpoints compared to a passive regression that most likely won´t survive the first 60 seconds. Uhmm yeah...
- CoH being stronger than SC. You know whats funny about that comparison? That SC and BK both stack with CoH, which doesn´t even have to be yours. Could be anyones boon that drastically increases the healing speed. Oh and CoH on its own has a faster healing than SC.
- Never said anything about Dark Theory being good.
- Exponential being stronger than Unbreakable. Again, just as above, it stacks on the recovery speed and you won´t lose the one time recovery of Unbreakable, if you do it within the area of Exponential. Doesn´t have to be your boon.
- Shadowstep. I´m not sure if you´re trying to argue that walking during a chase is more effective than running.
- Coh (again). Didn´t you just claim, that CoH is weaker than SC? Or did i miss something?
- Thrill. You mean it saves you time IF survivors want to do totems. If you don´t take another hex perk, then there is little reason to do bones for them. Which effectively, as i already said twice, makes it useless on its own.
- HG. so not breaking a chase and trying to find uninjured survivors on the map during the 60 second timer is a bad idea. Ohhhkay.
- Retribution. It takes 14 seconds to bless a totem. Highly unlikely that a survivor will start blessing while inside the killers terror radius.
- BF. Again, its a Hex perk. It can be gone in the first 60 seconds of the match. Which makes it effectively weaker, because its not present unlike perks that are not hex perks. If it wasn´t a hex perk, then you would have an argument. Buuuut...
- Undying. I´ve never been scared of NOED as solo. The "gives tons of info" goes both ways. The first time a survivor is near a totem, he´ll get a notification, that there is a totem. 4 survivors getting this notification means that they´ll waste 14 seconds of their time and get rid of 4 out of 5 totems.
- CC. Again, hex perk. It could be gone in the first 60 seconds. "survivors wasting time to search for that hex" isn´t a selling point, since the killer will effectively lose a perk for the rest of the match.
- Pentimento. Glad that you agree that its useless on its own.
Now in regard of your real kicker. By that logic a killer should be happy to play with 1, 2 or 3 less perks. Because thats all totems the survivors had to cleanse and waste time on it. Does losing a couple of perks to save some time sound appealing to you, when you play survivor?
On boons, you realize that all 4 survivors can use boons covering almost the whole map with it. Even if they had to relight them, a killers time is 4 times as precious as a survivors. Him constantly searching and kicking boons will cost him more time.
Oh no, I just applied your logic. You might not have named the perks, but it most certainly is your logic applied to those perks in mind.
- 1. double bloodpoints is not gonna do ######### for you in the game. So no.
- 2. If SC stacked with CoH, a heal would take 64 seconds, thats not a good thing. BK could be stacked, sure, but when were we talking about stacking effects? Thats right, we were not. As for CoH being faster than SC? No, both SC and CoH reduce self-healing by 50%. You're literally lying here.
- 3. Oh, but that doesnt matter you said boons were stronger than hexes. That includes Dark Theory.
- 4. Again, assuming all the requirements are filled. I have ran all boons 10 games in a row, Exponential was only used once, against a slugging Nurse. My teammates ran Unbreakable, that was used 4 times in the same span of games. The fact that exponential has so little usage makes it objectively worse. You could turn Dead Hard into a Boon, make it available for all survivors in that small area, and it would be worse than Head-On.
- 5. Oh, it is. Walking replenishes exhaustion, running does not. You would want to stand still and walk in chase as much as you can so you can use an exhaustion perk twice. The only time you run is to maximize distance. If you've already reached maximum distance in a loop, you might aswell walk away untill the killer spots you walking away. If they dont spot you walking away, they would have to search you again, giving you valuable time to recover.
- 6. I just repeated the fact that SC is objectively better.
- 7. seeing a burning totem makes survivors want to check, if it's thrill, they often want it gone in case it's protecting another hex, if they see no other hex and there is still 1 unknown perk, they would have to consider NOED, and to counter NOED as of today, is to cleanse all totems or hope you get lucky after the final gen. But with your own logic of extra BP: Thrill also does this. Let alone that Thrill also gives you info on how many totems are still standing, even after its destroyed. So its still good info on how determined survivors are on getting rid of totems.
- 8. You literally get a notification of where the survivor is who broke the totem. And since you were talking about combining BK and CoH: HG and Retribution is a killer combo. HG and Infectious Fright is too. HG and Undying. HG and Bitter Murmur. HG and BBQ. HG and Discordance, HG and Lethal Pursuer is quite good too.
- 9. You misinterpreted my statement, oblivious means they do not hear you coming. They could have started blessing a totem. If you also have Undying, you can see them working on a dull totem and approach them without them knowing you're coming. 14 seconds means 64.4 meters of distance. Which on most maps is practically covering the entire map.
- 10. BF would be far too powerful to not be a hex. And yeah, it can be gone the first 60 seconds of the map, but it could also last the entire game. High risk, high reward. Let alone that survivors wouldnt cleanse a hex if the effect wasnt powerful in the first place.
- 11. Great, that's 0 gen progression for 14 seconds. Excluding the time it takes for survivors to find all those totems in the first place. You're assuming all totems are found already and the survivors are ready to cleanse them at the same time. Thats a lot of time not working on gens. 2 survivors on 1 gen for 14 seconds would be 30% of the gen done. Thats more time saved than Pop, with 0 requirements. Sure, Pop can be repeated, but hooking survivors while gens are still kickable becomes less and less common in higher MMR. So in this scenario, Undying alone does more than Pop.
- 12. So? High risk, high reward. That is the essence of Hexes. The fact that people would spend time cleansing any totem at all means that people were not working on gens. Thats beneficial.
- 13. Yeah, but so is Dark Theory, Shadowstep or Vigil, or Streetwise, or Buckle Up, or Open Handed, or Soul Guard(its power relies on hexes standing), Built To Last, Breakout, BT(you have to unhook people for it to work, you cant always unhook people), flip-flop, any means neccesary(most pallets get broken ASAP), Ace in the Hole, Lucky Break(60 seconds of being injured happens very early in game, removing the perk forever), DS(only useful if you're being tunneled, if you're not being tunneled and still have DS after 20 seconds, you've wasted time), Distortion(4 reads and its gone), Poised. Not talking about the impracticality of perks that basically make them useless. For every Exponential that has seen at least a single use, I have seen 3 ruins carry a killer to victory.
And yes, killers should be comfortable running less perks. You should start tracking how often perks you bring do not have any value at all. Scourge hooks? with bad RNG, you never get to use it. Pop? If gens are finished or have 0 progression, its literally useless. BBQ? Survivors working on gens can literally have their aura's hidden from you. Corrupt Intervention? Survivors have a chance of not even spawning near those gens and finishing 3 gens before even realizing you brought Corrupt. Killers mainly win games through using their abilities and addons. If having to chose between 0 addons and 0 perks, a lot of killers would prefer 0 perks. Perks are there to either give a shortcut or stall the game. Stalling the game doesnt matter if you cannot kill a player before the gate is powered. Shortcuts only work if you're already in a position where you can win without the shortcut, the shortcut just makes that win easier to access. Perks are there to amplify your gameplay, they are not, and should not, be neccesary for your victories. Why do you think Ruin is picked 50% of the games in highest MMR where Pop is only used 25% of the games? Because Ruin guarantees value. Either you get to bully survivors off gens and gain a ton of pressure, or survivors waste time cleansing a totem. Survivors are forced to cleanse Ruin to progress consistently. Pop has 0 guarantee to be used. You can go for a 5 gen chase with survivors constantly tanking hits and healing up for their teammates to tank another hit, then down a survivor. What value does Pop have here?
For survivors, if they run DS, Unbreakable and Self-Care, but do not get tunneled, slugged or are always healed by teammates, thats survivors practically only using 1 perk for 10+ games in a row, untill they do get slugged, or untill they do get tunneled, or untill they are not being healed by teammates. Thats 3 perk slots NOT BEING USED for 10 games.
You have to be comfortable with running 0 perks on both sides, because you are not guaranteed any value. The only perks in the game that have guaranteed value are hex perks. Sure, some perks are quite powerful and relatively easy to trigger, but even though Iron Grasp would guarantee a lot of hooks, people still rather run Ruin. Because that 14 second cleanse at the start of the game can be the difference between 2 gens and 1 hook and 3 gens and 0 hooks.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2961314#Comment_2961314
I understand that. Its just that you need hit like 60/63 projectiles to fully infect a survivor from 100 to 0 without add-ons and the fact that survivor can scream on some projectiles and not build infection meter can really mess with you as killer.
dead hard also had this problem where you'd press dead hard but be exhausted on floor but they fixed that by making it favor the survivor. The mechanic is called Favor the shooter. The idea is that if you see you hit the target on your screen, the server registers that you get the hit. In dead hard case, if you pressed E on your screen, it counts as dodge even if killer hit on their screen. You used to be able hear survivor get hit. Now you will notice your killer swing pulling back and survivor will like slightly teleport forward. that is the hit validation.
Plague's puke might as be called Favor the survivor. If survivor sees they dodged it on their screen, it registers on plague screen that they dodged, but the plague sees her screen as that they got hit. It makes incredibly challenging to use her ability properly because you can't tell where the survivor is standing on server screen. It just kinda feels like you get robbed off hits due to server validation favoring the dodger instead of the shooter.
I'm aware of trickster knifes, he is very aim intensive with his knives.
I think it was about 40 projectiles, but even without addons, survivors are running in chase, which increases infection(walking and crouching does not). Being infected would also infect every interactive thing the survivors interact with, except for hooks(for some reason).
And no, dead hard wasnt fixed favoring the survivor. You can still use Dead Hard and be downed, you simply wouldnt be exhausted on the floor.
As for "favoring the shooter" that's called hitscan, DBD doesnt have hitscan. As for favoring the shooter in DBD, that used to be the case. Where if it looked like a hit on the killers screen, even if ALL other players saw a distance of 10 meters, you'd injure the survivor. This is not really "favoring the shooter", this is simply "unplayable" as nothing you do matters. Dead Hard doesnt count as a dodge once you pressed it. Dead Hard counts as a dodge if your input reaches the server before the killer's hit registratrion arrives. It's not hit validation pulling your swing back and teleporting the survivor forward. Thats called synching your POV with the server POV as your POV is desynced. Desynced hits destroys any counterplay.
And again, no. If the survivor doesnt get hit on their end, and the killer does hit the survivor from their end, but the survivor's input reaches the server before the killer's input, then the hit misses. The same logic goes the other way. If the survivor does not get hit on their end, but does get hit on the killers' end, and the killers input reaches the server before the survivor's input, it registers as a hit.
The server validation doesnt favor any side, it favors the data that enters the server first.
I am willing to bet that if you play survivor and jump through a window while the killer swings, you'd also be injured when from your POV you shouldnt be, same logic there. The servers are first come, first serve, no favoring any side.
For the longest side, servers were favoring killers, meaning you could drop a pallet as a survivor, stun the killer as a survivor, run 5 meters away and still be downed because the killer was lagging. Realistically, that killer should have been stunned and the hit should have been rolled back. Sure, this mainly favors survivors, but realistically, its simply fixing something that was not meant to be anyway. Again, if you are able to play 10 seconds and then recieve a hit, what can you possibly do as a survivor? Nothing.
There are cases where it favors the killer though: grabs, hook animations and still injuring survivors who used DDoS to basically lose connection for 30 seconds to avoid damage.
-
@Jivetalkin13 said:
I don't think it would be a great idea and it's probably never going to be added, but what would happen to the game if after a game of using a perk it was disabled for 3 or 4 games?
You definitely wouldn't see the same Perks every game unless it was a perfectly in sync swf.
This isn't a serious recommendation, just wanted to hear others thoughts on what it would be like.
This would be nice for a personal challenge(like hardcore killer or hardcore survivor), where winning with a perk means that perk "dies". But in public games? As long as you do not get to see what killer you're facing, or what inventory the survivors have equipped, that's not a good idea. And seeing the inventory of survivors or seeing what killer is being faced can literally change the outcome of the game.
-
@Alexmon70 said:
Please just keep the bp bonus for hooks, I don't care if you remove the aura reading. Just k e e p the bp for the love of god.
BBQ and Chili is known to be a very mediocre perk. If you have all the perks and all the addons, why would you ever run BBQ over perks like Bitter Murmur, Nurses Calling or even Sloppy Butcher? Those effects are objectively better.
So I dont think BBQ is gonna get nerfed, I think, like some others have stated, that the BP bonus is going to be basekit. Which(hopefully) also makes WGLF bp bonus basekit. I think BBQ is even going to see a slight buff after that, as 4 seconds is very minor and is easily countered by sitting behind a gen. So my guess is that BBQ is going to give 4 seconds of killer instinct together with 4 seconds of aura reading.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2959564#Comment_2959564
I have no issues with doctor's shock but have issues with plague's puke. survivor often scream but do not get infected. its extremely annoying. your lucky that you have no such problems on plague.
"survivor often scream but do not get infected" You mean injured? And yeah, if you move your mouse too fast from left to right, there might be a visual blob hitting the survivor, but the projectiles all missing. Or do you mean the grunt at the start, because the grunt at the start of an infection is based on predictive math, not on actually hitting(although, most times, you should be hitting them). This is the same math that made survivors on your end scream while dead harding.
The visual blob connects between projectiles that are X distance away, or other blobs that are within Y distance. But the blob is not the projectile. The projectiles are invisible. For a fully charged vomit, there are about 63 projectiles. Sounds like a lot, but more often than not you're going for a smaller charge. Trickster's projectiles are larger than Plague's, and look how many knives you miss during main event, which often is thrown in the general location the survivor is running to. Plague's left-to-right movement spreads out the projectiles more, and now those projectiles are moving at an angle, so the inverse square law applies. The inverse square law in combination with the visuals not being a perfect representation of the projectiles make it very easy to have moments where it looks like you should have hit, but you really didnt.
As for being lucky with not having such problems, well, it could also be since I have about 10 hours in Plague total, which is still about 60-ish games, but thats too small of a sample size. Sheer statistical inevitability could have prevented it from occuring in those matches.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2959526#Comment_2959526
Thank you for confirming what i said right before the list: We have plenty of weak Hex perks which require either another Hex or are simply terrible.
- thrill: is just annoying and does absolutely nothing apart from that
- hg: lies in the survivors hands when its triggered. Could be when the survivors are already injured. Useless on its own.
- retribution: again, useless on its own.
- bf: weaker as dissolution, because it can be cleansed.
- undying: again, useless on its own.
- cc: weaker bamboozle. Because bamboozle cant be cleansed + it gives a vault speed bonus.
- pentimento: useless on its own. Especially in boon meta where survivors don´t cleanse totems. You could play a whole match without the chance to ever use it and even if, you would have to go to a part of the map where you can´t pressure. The penalty doesn´t make up for the time wasted in going there.
Boons are stronger than hexes. For the simple reason, that they can be relight. If a hex gets cleansed within the first 60 seconds of a match, then its gone for good. Not so for boons. Even more, as stated above, the overwhelming majortiy of hex perks require another hex perk to work. Imagine survivors had to equip SG, Detectives Hunch or another totem perk to use boons. They would be considered far weaker.
"For the simple reason, that they can be relight."
BBQ is stronger than Ruin for the simple reason that you can hook survivors more than once - Tsulan probably.
Calling boons stronger because they can be relit is assuming their power is significant enough the moment it's active. Here's my entire counter argument:
CoH: worse than self-care. Self-care can be used anywhere anytime, and can be used to bait a killer to chase you if you heal up to 99%, then jump a window, fully heal and waste a lot of the killer's time. Healing together? Botany Knowledge is better, can be used anywhere, anytime.
Dark Theory? Spinechill saves you more time and creates more distance through 1 single vault than Dark Theory does over a chase of 30 seconds. Let alone that Spinechill can be used map-wide, where Dark Theory only applies on a small portion of the map AND if the boon is lit. It's literally never worth placing Dark Theory on its own. It's worth playing Undying on its own. The info from Undying alone is 1000000000000x more useful than the 2% haste effect that Dark Theory gives. But wait, you might add, running Blood Pact would mean you can run at 109% right? NOPE. Haste doesnt stack. So if Blood Pact is active, Dark Theory doesnt even do #########.
Exponential: Unbreakable is better. Unbreakable has the boosted self-recovery anywhere anytime and can pick yourself up without any requirements. For exponential to work, you need to: 1. place the boon 2. be in range of the boon(crawling is slow as #########) 3. not be picked up. Relighting Exponential doesnt do ######### if the killer doesnt down you within range.
Shadowstep: its best effect is removing scratchmarks. There are some addons that matter for the aura blocking, but perk-wise, the only perk affected is Nurses Calling. Holding W rather than Shift+W is more effective at removing scratchmarks.
The only boon in this list that is somewhat dangerous is CoH as it has the potential to save time. The rest tends to lose time. Losing time is always a bad thing.
So how are they stronger than:
Thrill: "does nothing" except buy you a lot more time. Survivors doing totems means survivors are not doing gens. survivors doing totems twice as long means survivors are barely working on gens. Loses survivors time for working on totems.
HG: Instadowns literally divide a chase in 2. If a survivor is already injured when the exposed status effect is activated, and you dont use that effect to your interest, its not Haunted Grounds being useless, its YOU not using it. HG has the potential to end games, that alone makes it extremely useful.
Retribution: Yes and no, survivors are oblivious when blessing totems too, meaning you can catch them off-guard. Thats a free hit. Free hits make perks worth running. Are there better perks than it? Sure, but that doesnt make Retribution useless.
Blood Favour: You're objectively wrong. Dissolution has massive downsides: there needs to be a terror radius. So if a survivor is oblivious, or you are undetectable, Dissolution has no effect. Blood Favour has an effect everytime a survivor loses a health state. It's also an effect that causes survivors to stop doing gens and look for totems. Dissolution can be very powerful, but survivors arent gonna let go of gens when its active. In fact, they will very likely keep sitting on gens.
Undying: Gives tons of info. Also makes survivors scared of NOED if there is no other hex active, so they waste a lot of time searching and cleansing every single totem. Again, time wasted not doing gens.
CC: Literally forces a survivor to keep changing their loops to something else, makes survivors search for the totem, meaning they are going to let go of gens. It also means that only 1 survivor can go through the window for a shortcut as long as the totem is active. Bamboozle only blocks a window AFTER you were physically there. The increased vaultspeed only really matters on loops with very little vision on the killer, like Killershack(or myers), any other time, and the vaultspeed doesnt really matter. While CC never requires you to vault as long as its active.
Pentimento: yeah, on its own, right now, its not amazing, but it has amazing synergy with things like Plaything or just normal Undying(again, solo undying makes people think you're trying to run NOED Undying, cleansing a lot of totems, if not all) and in the next update will literally gain a perk to destroy boons so you can place pentimento in the same moment.
Then here's the real kicker: a hex often forces a survivor to cleanse a totem, thats 1 survivor not working on gens. Meaning for the duration of them looking for the totem, cleansing the totem and running back to a gen, it's as if you killed 1 survivor. If a totem gets removed within the first 60 seconds, and you are chasing a survivor, thats at best 2 gens being worked at. So having a hex, ANY hex, will often give survivors the idea you're planning something else. And if you're not running very obvious perks, they will cleanse that hex to try and prevent a combo you're trying.
Where with Boons, the less they are relit, the more powerful their effects are. Survivors relighting the same boon 7 times in a single match, is survivors effectively destroying 7 dull totems. If they used Exponential 2 times on that boon, total waste. If they used CoH and healed 10 times, total waste. If they replaced Dark Theory or Shadowstep 7 times, they lose the game. Relighting boons is not a good thing. 14 seconds is 95% of a heal. So setting up CoH for a single heal and then having it snuffed is so much wasted time.
-
@Rokjer said:
I must be the only one who doesn't want a second RE chapter.
First, it creates too great an inequality of treatment between licenses. We will have 4 survivors (6 with skins), 2 killers and 2 RE maps. While some licenses don't even have a survivor (Scream, Hellraiser) or a killer (Left 4 Dead) or a map (Scream, Left 4 Dead, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Hellraiser, Ringu). Some original chapters also don't have a map (Blight, Twins, Trickster).
And secondly, you won't take away the impression from me that such a rapid choice of renewal (one year) is only a short-term marketing strategy to reproduce the explosion of players from the first chapter. It will work for a month, then the same story will happen again. All the players who came for RE will leave again. You don't fix a game with such questionable short-term solutions. It's just keeping the game under artificial respiration by playing on people's fanboyism. If we add to that the unfulfilled promises (still nothing on the improvement of the HUD for SoloQ, even no enunciation in the stream, nice), hard to believe in an improvement of the game in the long term.
Few things:
- this means that older licenses could be expanded upon and getting extra maps
- Texas chainsaw massacre doesnt have a survivor either. Nor do Billy, Trapper and Wraith. Not really an issue.
- Meg, David, Jake, Dwight and Claudette do not have a killer either. Nor does Ash(cant believe people keep forgetting Ash is licensed)
- L4D doesnt really have a specific killer, Bill was pulled into the Entity after dying, none of the L4D infected really had bloodlust. Sure, they would attack humans on sight, but humans werent really hunted down by them.
- Scream license was just the mask. So there was no licensed map or survivor. L4D had no killer, and maps tend to be tied to killers. Texas Chainsaw Massacre technically has a map, as Coldwind Farm gained a map on it's release(and Coldwind Farm was already heavily based on TCM locations). Hellraiser doesnt have a map as the box being opened only really summons Cenobites when opened outside of hell, and there isnt really a location bound to Hellraiser that is significant. Ringu kinda suffers the same thing. There is a map if there is a common location. For Jason? Camp Crystal Lake would easily fit. For Chucky? I mean, maybe the toy factory as that one appears twice, but even then, not really a location. Ash does have locations, but no killer(same issue with L4D)
- Maps for Blight, Twins, Trickster, Hellraiser and even Ringu were skipped to rework older maps. We basically got all existing maps renewed which was absolutely neccesary.
As for adding another RE chapter for RE fans. No, there are simply a few common requests for licenses. Wesker and Nemesis were both demanded heavily. I wouldnt be surprised if Wesker was originally intended to be the year 6 anniversary and agreed upon when Nemesis was being added. Technically, Silent Hill has made an appearance through Nurse before, as Nurse is based on the nurses in Silent Hill. Billy was based heavily on Bubba.
As for the improvement for the HUD in SoloQ, while in a game like VHS its fully needed as the game is heavily based around comms, in DBD there are non-comms teams that are stronger than a lot of comms teams. So you need to consider that into the design, meaning you cant just copy-paste the things from VHS to DBD. You'd have to playtest the given information first and adjust how much info is given, how the info can be interpreted, how you want the info to be interpreted and if the info can be used in other ways other than just gaining info on teammates. That takes quite some time. In addition of other things that have a bit more priority than improving SoloQ experience with 10%, like changing the meta in a way that improves the SoloQ experience with 60%.
As for improvement on the long term, I mean, look at the state of the game before each anniversary. It's definitely improving a lot. The changes to improving the game are not big enough to notice between updates, but its massively improving. Look at the 2020 anniversary and people could remove 3 totems from the game and still DS the killer. Look at the 2019 anniversary and you have killers running Pop and Ruin together, slowing down games so much that even Billy was an S tier killer. Billy dropped to an A-tier killer after the ruin nerf(which is why so many people claimed the old ruin was better, even though the new ruin is objectively stronger, but lacks synergy with pop). 2018 anniversary and you have people proxycamping the obsession on the hook with a mori, while using Ruin, Pop and Dying Light, basically guaranteeing 3 kills with effectively 0 effort.
Does the game improve too slow for your liking? Take a break for a bit, dont suffer through a game you currently do not like to play. I am currently on a "break". I only play like 12 hours a week at best, when I used to play easily 32 hours a week. I have taken a 2 year long complete break, no playing DBD at all, before that aswell. So this is coming from experience. You're burned out from DBD, take that break.
-
@Nos37 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2941805#Comment_2941805
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2941887#Comment_2941887
Visionary requires you running around the map to see all the gens for you to find the problem first. Deja Vu saves you that time and hassle.
Remember, you're racing the other survivors (who have likely spawned near gens that should be saved for later/last); especially in solo queue.
Technically? But that is just a 1 to 1 comparison. Visionary has a ton of synergy. Using Kindred and Open Handed? Visionary now also reveals practically all gens. And running around to scout out gens to prevent a 3 gen isnt exactly unusual. Often you do not spawn to the most strategic generator to fix(often in the center of the map), which is a generator that is almost always guaranteed to spawn and should be fixed first. You'd pass a lot of gens very easily.
The only way DeJaVu gets better is also revealing the aura of teammates for 3 seconds everytime a gen is completed.
-
@Obelt said:
Thats a start but could use more later in the year
This is excluding the fact that you can also boost teachable levels through the shrine. So if you have Ruin at t2 on all killers because hag is p2lvl1, but you want t3, instead of leveling up through the bloodweb, you can also buy it through the shrine and have it t3 on all killers without leveling hag.
So there are 2 options:
p1=t1 p2=t2 p3=t3
1 shrine purchase of perk x=t1 on all. 2nd shrine purchase of perk x=t2 on all. 3rd shrine purchase of perk x=t3 on all.
With that in mind, you can pretty much get all perks on all characters with only 150 million BP and 50k shards(ish).
The only thing that is missing, is survivor BP being more natural. Right now, to gain max BP you need to: Fix 2.5 gens(preferably together), heal 3 teammates(preferably together), boon/cleanse 4 totems OR be in chase for 8 minutes. Use DS and Deliverance and self heal twice, then die as the obsession, or use DS and escape as the obsession. You are basically playing 3 seperate games.
While as a killer, to get max points, you just chase survivors. That's it. Hitting is seperate from hooking, killing is seperate from that, using your ability is another one. So you very naturally get a lot of points.
The fact that a survivor who has been chased all game can die with only 8k BP is simply unacceptable
-
My personal favourite is the prestige rework, especially because it shares similarities with my original idea, where reaching p1 on a killer would unlock ALL teachable perks at t1 and p3 would unlock all teachable perks at t3, but with new releases you would still need to unlock the perks on the characters.
The difference is that assuming all killers are p3, every new addition would increase with 200k to unlock all the new perks(aka, 10 killers and 11th killer being added would be 2 million BP, 20 killers and the 21st killer being added would take 4 million BP per added killer). So while it initially saves a LOT of BP compared to the current situation, we've already crossed the 4 million BP per added killer. As we'd now be closing in on 6 million per new killer.
While with their changes, it's 4 million bp per new killer by prestiging them to p3. That's really neat. So instead of finishing my original quest of p3lvl50 all perks on killers(taking 21 million and about 1 month per killer), I am going to try to p3 lvl 1 as many killers as possible(5 per month are doable), and actually return to prestiging survivors after I finish the final killers.
With my current rate of BP gains, I should be able to get every character p3lvl1, with the exception of characters that have unique offerings like anniversary cakes.
My big question to the devs is if there is going to be a legacy prestige v2 for characters that do have all or almost all perks unlocked, as I'd say that these changes to prestige are much more impactful than the original changes.
-
@Bran said:
Sadly I didn't hear a "we're shutting the game down. Bye guys"
And even though the stream left a lot to be desired. They did waste time on a dating sim after all.
I'll go with the the perk reworks. Since it also will be accompanied by game changes (which was something else I wanted).
You're assuming the people working on the dating sim are the same people working on DBD. BHVR could easily have a secondary team work on the secondary game so that people working on DBD would not be distracted from it. The majority of BHVR employees before DBD exploded were 2d and 3d artists. Dating sims are like, 85% artistic work.
-
@GentlemanFridge said:
Guessing it’s because it sometimes allows the billy to go beyond the trial walls, which they might not like.
Pretty sure Billy teleported back into the trials if that was the case. Also, not sure they removed Skybilly. They added the clause "inaccessible". Not all skybilly things are meant to be inaccessible(as Nurse can TP to them, for example).
It might be overdone at first to make sure the inaccessible spots get properly fixed before adding back the momentum.
Or maybe, just maybe, they are working on Billy and thus SkyBilly might be too strong for the new additions.
-
@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
That's the worst idea you could have in the game. At some level, 1 or 2 survivors might have a better trait than others that would fit more into meta gameplay. And then you'd see no5thing but lobbies full of Megs and Adams or whoever it was. People would feel bad playing their favorites or possibly get dodged or avoided for playing just who they like because of trait association. Skins work better as it allows you to play whoever you want with your skill and perks being what matters for gameplay.
This is already the case though:
Ace has the most silent pain noises to the point of practically having Iron Will t2 as basekit
Kate is the most silent female survivor, and more silent than most male characters too
Claudette has the least visibility: the smallest character model(making it very easy to hide behind things), darker skin(not always a benefit on maps like Ormond, but overall it is beneficial) and the darkest cosmetics available to anyone in the game.
Personally, I do wish that in the case of survivors, they get a "t4" version of their personal perks. While killers can heavily benefit from the perks of other killers, survivors do not have that benefit. Giving survivors a t4 version of their personal perks. Not neccesarily amplifying the effect further, but maybe unlocking a minor secondary effect, like Sprintburst also removing footstep sounds during the effect if Meg runs it, or Empathy showing injured teammates your aura if you're within 8 meters of them if you run it on Claudette, Empathic Connection on Yoichi being the opposite, where you see injured teammate aura's if you are within 8 meters of them. This would give reason to run certain builds more likely on specific characters without really changing the outcome of games too much. But significant enough to want to run adept perks+1 on those characters.
You could always change/alter this effect if it proves to be more powerful than intended. And in some specific cases, you could even straight up buff the perk to that specific survivor(buckle up for example, few people play Ash anyway), as a form of live test to see if the changes are too big or not.
That way, you dont give survivors a specific trait that could buff entire builds, but it does give reason to use specific survivors for certain builds. Like, if you run BT, Unbreakable, Sprintburst and Self-Care, it would be best to play Bill(assuming each "home perk advantage" has an effect that is equal in value).
-
@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2958765#Comment_2958765
I've been playing her since 3 years (from the moment she was released) and you're telling me I'm missing something about her? What exactly is there I'm doing wrong? She exists to spread her infection to enable instadowns either by committing via relentless puking or by making survivors get sick over time. Her struggle begins when it comes to finally securing the down, at that point she's simply a m1 killer without a power.
Seems to be more of a connection issue on your side if it happens consistently to you. From the server's perspective, those survivors did not get hit by projectiles BEFORE your information comes that they did get hit. If that is consistent, then your information is lagging behind. You cannot expect survivors to be punished if the killer has a bad connection to the server. That is the only reasonable explanation I can think of why it would consistently miss to the point that you only get 1 hook. I suck at Plague and face relatively strong survivors, the infection keeping them broken alone grants a huge advantage as it basically turns everyone into an instadown. I get an average of 7 hooks on Plague, which is, hook-wise, an average of 2 kills if I were to play efficient. Killwise, I mean, around 2 kills, possibly slightly less as I still suck at her.
Might wanna check up if your modem or provider is artificially slowing down your uploadspeed if your ping is fine.
@Adjatha said:
Plague and Doctor desperately need proper Hit Validation on their powers. The state of things for them is a complete joke. It's even worse that they changed Plague's puke to last longer on objects without actually fixing the hit validation.
I mean, 0 issues, really. Doc main and I have yet to have a moment where a survivor didnt scream when they should have. Nor do I really have scenario's where a survivor screamed too late. There have been a few scenario's where I think it shouldnt have been an unhook but the unhook still finished, which is easily explained by me having a minor lagspike. I think the hit validation is fine on both.
-
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2959329#Comment_2959329
i feel like this will be part of the "prestige catch up" system they mentioned- it would probably cause bubba to be automatically prestiged for you so you keep your perks
No, the prestige catch up only applies to characters you have spend a lot of BP on. For example, having unlocked all the perks on a single p0 lvl50 killer without prestiging them would get you to p3 lvl 20(not based on any real number, just speculation) and someone with p3 lvl 50 all perks might become p5 lvl 10.
It would be really weird to have a character p0lvl1 turn p3lvl1 just because you unlocked all 3 of his perks on another killer.
You will keep all the perks and items you unlocked from the bloodweb. But having t3 on all of Bubba's perks on Trapper still means you would have to p3 Bubba to unlock it on all other characters. This is why there is an additional compensation. Otherwise the prestiging would be the compensation.
-
For maximum benefit, also run Botany Knowledge, and in the case of a premade, have your teammate run Leader. That changes the 32 second heal to a 20 second heal, meaning you can touch the gen faster yourself.
-
You recieve 1 health state, even if you're maxed out on healing anyway. So yeah, intended mechanics.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2958776#Comment_2958776
Why stop at Third Seal? We have plenty of weak Hex perks which require either another Hex or are simply terrible:
- Thrill of the Hunt - which does absoluely nothing apart from being boring to survivors.
- Haunted Grounds - losing a perk slot for a 60 second exposed status? Iron Maiden offers 30 seconds and can be used as often as survivor jump into a locker.
- Retribution - you wont even notice its effect.
- Blood Favor - wishes secretly to be Dissolution
- Undying - now its just a wasted perk slot.
- Crowd Control - the weaker bamboozle
- Pentimento - would have been a great perk like 2 years ago.
The only Hex perks that are not absolutely terrible are Ruin, Devour Hope and Plaything. One of them being as strong as boons and the others are okayish.
That only CoH is meta, doesn´t mean that the other boons are weak. They are almost as strong and can certainly turn the tide of a match. Especially on indoor maps.
thrill of the hunt: slows down blessing speed significantly, especially on hex totems(up to 48 seconds, thats a huge timesink)
haunted grounds is meant to protect other totems, let alone that its a bait perk and exposes ALL survivors for 60 seconds. It's basically a 1 minute NOED. Where Iron Maiden exposes one survivor on the map randomly and informs literally everyone else that Iron Maiden is being used.
Retribution, you do notice its effect, especially when ran together with Haunted Grounds. Very tasty combo.
Blood Favor, better than Dissolution as it removes the ability to drop pallets entirely, can even be combined with Dissolution to easily get rid of pallets.
Undying, okay-ish for info, amazing because it literally tanks the hit for a more powerful totem without reducing that totems power(Ruin and Devour are most common, but triggering Haunted Grounds twice in the same match? Especially if you have Retribution too? Very tasty indeed)
Crowd Control, stronger bamboozle, especially on mobility killers. The only time Bamboozle might be stronger is Shack because you can double vault and hit a survivor before they realize you double vaulted.
Pentimento, still a strong perk, combine with Thrill of the Hunt, Plaything and Thanatophobia for maximum chaos.
As for other boons being weak? Well, they are. None of them really turn the tide of a match. Dark Theory only really works if you face a killer with absolutely 0 mindgames and no anti-loop(bloodlust alone counters Dark Theory super fast, and that's vanilla). Shadowstep only really works well on indoor maps. Exponential literally does not see use unless you decide to slug all 4 survivors without snuffing boons first, which is your own undoing as you could have started hooking after slugging 2 survivors(crawling to the boon is so unviable, that if you can pull it off, you deserved the self-pickup).
And CoH isnt even that strong. Just slap on Sloppy Butcher and 99% of your issues melt away.
-
hexes like that have easily won me games, because survivors didnt really have a reason to go there for a long time in the game. Let alone that survivors tend to look for the hidden totems first, which have set spawns, while totems out in the open could be anywhere and could take an entire tour of the map, only to find the totem 12 meters from your original starting point(if only you ran the opposite way).
Let alone that boons are much more audible and their effects dont work map-wide either.
-
@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2959395#Comment_2959395
There is a correlation there, though - killer MMR is solely based on kills, so you're going to get a higher MMR if you 4k than if you 3k and give hatch.
I just... eh. BMing the last survivor by bleeding them out is a problem, don't get me wrong, and it shouldn't exist or be enabled in any way, but I strongly disagree that it's more common or even anywhere close to as often as I see genuine hatch. And this would remove the good along with the bad, when the good outnumbers the bad. A mandatory finisher mori isn't the only solution for this - you could just as easily just let the last survivor bleed out on command when they don't feel they have any way to escape (which is a feature I've asked for for a while.)
Yeah, but here's the thing: you can jump in a locker as a survivor to be grabbed and bypass the mori, then let the survivor wiggle out at the hatch. Sure, you wouldnt have the sluggy goodbye anymore, but its still a way to get around it.
Then there is also the fact that survivors could bleed themselves out in the moment that you place Exponential so they can pick themselves up.
To avoid BM and accidental sandbagging by uninformed suicide, this simply seems to be the best option.
I personally do hope that if you're slugged within 6 meters of an open hatch you can still be dropped without triggering the mori(hatch being closed while you're slugged instantly triggering the mori), and a 3 second pick-up cooldown(with the hook animation instantly ending the game, simply for 4 stacks), but as of now, I think it's neccesary to set new ground rules(pun intended), before tweaking the outcome. It's much better for the game to have an instant ending coded in as basekit, working and all, and then tweaking things, so that any bug around dropping someone near hatch would still instantly end the game, than it is to code in the potential outcomes, have the game bug on the dying state(assuming you're next to an open hatch for example, even though you're very far away) and still keep potential abuse. It would also give hackers less tools to prolong the game.
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2957228#Comment_2957228
Letting a killer place the totem on their terms would be a buff in many cases. Also in case you didn't notice killers instantly light totems.
The hex itself would let you place the totem where you wish.
Well, in theory, it could be a buff. In practice, you'd either be heard or seen moving there and turn on the hex. The only somewhat exception would be indoor maps, which are already quite good for totems in the first place.
And no, killers dont instantly light totems. Even in the case of Pentimento, where the killer actively relights totems, its not instant.
-
@Rogue11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2957222#Comment_2957222
I've been given hatch far more often than bled out on the ground. I don't think most killers are as toxic as you're implying.
I never implied most killers to be toxic, I havent even mentioned how many killers went for the 4th hook or gave the exit gate instead. But getting carried to hatch, especially in higher mmr, is getting more and more rare, while being bled out on the floor is getting more and more common. I can count on 1 hand how often that my friends or I have been carried to a hatch in the past month, I can count on 3 hands the amount of time someone has been forced to bleed out and called us toxic(for equipping DS and BT because of a tunnel meta, mind you)
-
@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2958399#Comment_2958399
I get given hatch when I'm the last one around 1/10 times and the thing @Predated described has happened to me like, twice ever in 4+ years.
I can count it happening to me or people I play with at least 10 times just this year. It's been getting more frequent since SBMM had been introduced.
-
@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2957222#Comment_2957222
....... This almost never happens. What are you on?
But you agree that it does happen. That alone is good enough of a reason for the change. It's not a bannable offense, but it is something that drags out games for up to 8 extra minutes for no reason at all. If it's not gonna be bannable, then it has to be removed to be an option in the first place.
-
@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2957224#Comment_2957224
No it's not. That new anti-boon perk sucks, because it's a perk. I'm not saying breaking totems when snuffing them should be basekit. I'm saying boons are ######### broken and that's what should have been fixed, rather than forcing killers to bring that stupid perk to have a chance to counter stupidly broken boons.
Boons aren't broken if you do basic maths. Right now, self-care is more powerful than CoH, as CoH embraces everything that's bad about bad Self-caring:
1. Run to a specific point on the map.
2. Heal up at 50% speed(which can be slowed down significantly with Mangled, btw)
The only benefit is on indoor maps. 75% was fine for CoH. Sloppy Butcher alone would negate a huge portion.
As for other boons being broken? Maybe if 3 survivors use the same boon to cover a large portion of the map, but that's basically survivors getting 1 mapwide perk, costing 56 survivor seconds to set up and 4 perk slots. That's not really broken. Kindred and Open Handed only takes up 2 slots and is more powerful than that.
As for boons being relit over and over again. That's what you would want. The more survivors spend time setting up boons, the more they waste time not working on gens, the more time you have to dedicate to a chase. Survivors don't really benefit from CoH unless you lose track of an injured survivor and cannot find the boon before they heal up. Survivors don't really benefit from Exponential, unless you slug them and leave the area, survivors barely benefit from Shadowstep, as they can hide in lockers or behind gens in most cases, then you have Dark Theory and, well, spinechill+resilience buys you 10x more seconds than Dark Theory does.
Boons are not busted. CoH has 1 issue and that is the fact that the effect applied on individuals rather than healing actions. Aka, if 2 survs healing was 1+1+0.75, it would be fine. But now it is 1+1+0.5+0.5, not solving the issue. If they change it back to 75% but only apply it to the healing action rather than the individual, it's fine.
Do the maths yourself. Things to consider:
Time to run to the area.
Time to heal up.
Time to run to the totem itself.
Time to set up the boon in the first place.
There is a lot of hidden time. Now, here's the standard to compare this time to: 16 seconds.
If you can stand still and heal up in 16 seconds, but the average time to heal up at a boon is 15 seconds, including all the other factors, why complain? Botany Knowledge alone reduces it to 13 seconds, is Botany broken too?
-
@Travis_Bateman said:
One fair change that DS could getis that it gets deactivated whenever you hook another survivor,there's a lot of times where killers get stunned by ds,even when they don't tunnel.
Here's quick math:
If you didn't tunnel a survivor and still got DS, that means for the entirety of you chasing another survivor and hooking them, they did nothing.
With the assumption that 1 killer second is 4 survivor seconds, that means that for a 5 second stun, their DS needs to be active less than 20 seconds for them to gain time. The only time survivors gain time from DS being more than 20 seconds is if they were actively chased.
So if you chased another survivor for 40 seconds after DSboi has been unhooked, spend 10 seconds hooking them, 5 seconds opening the locker because DSboi was like "hahah, DS go brr", then they have wasted 55 seconds doing absolutely nothing. Subtracting 20 seconds leaves 35 survivor seconds being completely useless. And if they unhook their teammate, well, they have used their DS and are now a free kill.
The only time that tactic is not beneficial for a killer is if they have Adrenaline trigger after their stun. Outside of that scenario, it's beneficial for you. Their only gain is if you get frustrated from it.
Embrace survivors playing like that, they are your biggest help to winning the game.
-
@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2956954#Comment_2956954
Just to confirm; does that mean that the Shrine and prestiging are going to be the only ways to get other characters' perks to appear in your bloodwebs?
Pretty sure it is. But don't worry, prestiging isn't as hard as it seems.
Right now, going from prestige 1 to prestige 3 takes 6 million BP. Sounds like a lot, but getting all the perks takes an additional 15 million BP. That's 21 million BP per character, assuming you unlocked all the teachables and don't have an unlucky bloodweb.
That's getting all perks unlocked on 1 character. If you play 3 characters, want their p3 outfit and like variety, that means you're spending 63 million BP. With the new system, that means you can get 30 perks permanently unlocked on all current and upcoming killers at their T3 status.
Getting all perks on all killers while also having the p3 outfit easily takes 500 million BP. Getting all perks on all killers after the update will "only" take 120 million BP.
In fact, that is assuming p3 lvl 50. Considering you do not have to level, p3 lvl 1 is all thats needed, and that is about 4 million BP, so getting all perks on all killers at T3 would take 80 million BP currently. It would still be a grind, but I've focussed on p3 all perks on killers for 10 months and I have finished 10 killers(including anniversary BP, which is like 15% of the total BP). Thats 210 million BP. You could get all perks on all killers within 1 year.
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2955860#Comment_2955860
Where's the survivor version of this perk? Make Hexes jump to dull totems automatically.
This is just another unfair mechanic that makes the game rules favor survivor over killer.
Hexes and boons need the same rules.
You do realize that boons are not placed at the start of the match? As a killer, you dont need to go around lighting up Ruin, Blood Favor or Undying to get the effect.
If you don't mind, you don't take the perk and snuff the boons, it you do mind, you take the perk and destroy the totems.
For survivors, the mirror perk would be:
Killers now have to spend time lighting their hexes, but killers can relight their hexes
-
@scenekiller said:
All boons becoming absolutely useless instead of making CoH less frustrating?
why even introduce boons at all then?
Look at it like this: reverting the CoH changes back to 75% is now a possibility.
-
@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
>Mori updates: Mori's removed from offerings
>They're adding The Finisher Mori - Killer immediately and automatically kills the last survivor on downed
___
So, I HAVE to bully the final survivor? I can't let her go?
Sure you can say "well, just don't down them" but I want to establish my dominance before I let her free. I don't want this change.
This removes options from the killer. I want to down the final survivor and then let them go.
I don't think I'm the only one here who is against a change that encourages mercilessly slaughtering everyone. We all need to inject more friendliness into this game, and I feel like this change is directly taking friendliness and joviality away.
One thing to keep in mind tho, for every killer that carried a survivor to the hatch, there has been 5 killers waiting nearly 4 full minutes for the bleed out timer to reach the final 0.1% only to pick up a survivor, carry them to the hatch, hook them nearby and close the hatch.
This is why we can't have nice things.
-
@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926269#Comment_2926269
- Second chance perks incentivize tunneling because of the time wasted during a chase. Survivor Dead Hards during a chase to extend it by 30 seconds when they reach a pallet or safe tile? The killer needs a return on their investment in this chase. The investment has been increased, the return must increase. Tunnel this person out of the game to see your return. Same things with Unbreakable, FTP, DS, etc... Losing time, must get better return. Must tunnel. Also where did you get the 70/100% from?
- The same killers have been in bottom garbage tier for years. Your point is that some garbage tier killer is better than another garbage tier killer? I don't understand.
- So the majority of SWFs dont play the game to have fun? What is your point here? Mine is that SWFs tend to be more altruistic than solo. Thus, tunneling is more effective against them. If a SWF competes against an equal skill Killer, the SWF will win the vast majority of the time. The game isn't balanced around comms.
- Meta for survivors has never been just hiding. Someone needs to waste the killers time. In the era of infinite loops that was how time was wasted. The meta has been the same for years. Please tell me your version of the meta over the years. I know you mentioned this before, but that really seemed like a bunch of things that you separated (short looping meta vs long looping meta) to make it seem like there have been multiple metas. The only time the looping meta was different was in the age of infinite loops.
- When was this anti healing meta and what were the core perks/builds/strategies around it? I'm not familiar with what you're talking about.
- again, no second chance perks=tunneling and killing someone asap. There is LESS tunneling with second chance perks. That is a fact. Hence it doesnt incentivize tunneling. As for returns: DH often also means a strong pallet is being dropped, thats an exhaustion perk AND a resource being used, that's a huge return. If someone is capable of using Unbreakable, that is you making a mistake. FTP? The amount of healthstates remains the same AND someone is broken now for the next minute, not really a second chance perk. DS? Only works if you tunnel in the first place. The only perk that is an issue here is DH. As for the 70% and 100%? I have played in both era's. Before BT, DS and Unbreakable, 100% of the killers tunneled and/or camped from the moment they got their first hook. Nowadays, at best 70% of the killers encountered camp or tunnel early on, and even then, tunneling mostly happens later in the game. If I am going to compare to tunneling/camping from first hook, only 10% of games have that, most of them being Bubba.
- Not really. Besides, you came with killers being worse than others. Myers was A tier at one point in time, especially in the testing server. The biggest reason why Myers ended up being the worst killer is more due to new content either negating or negatively affecting his powers(which is why Myers mains want a slight rework).
- Not really, I simply pointed out that SWF's losing due to altruism from your POV is often SWF's not in the mood to sit infront of generators for 3 minutes. It's them actively interacting with the killer more than gens. It appears to be altruistic from your POV, but that doesnt mean they actually were altruistic. You can definitely bait SWF through altruism, as you can be certain that someone would be willing to trade a hook rather than letting their teammate hit second stage, and use that fact to get both the hooktrade AND second stage, but that's not common place for what people tend to call altruistic. What most killers call altruistic is survivors tanking hits, healing up a lot and then coming back with no one doing gens, when most likely, its survivors who have had very boring games and just want some fun instead.
- Yes, it has been. Twice at least. I've had games where I simply couldnt find any survivor. I found the gens they were working on, I checked all the lockers and corners at some point because it got incredibly frustrating to only have had 2 chases all game to the point where running Nurses Calling became the norm again just so survivors couldnt hide. Hiding is wasting the time of the killer. If the killer cannot find any survivor, he wasted a lot of time searching and survivors elsewhere are working on gens. And no, even OhTofu has mentioned before that back in the day, it was much more beneficial for survivors to stick around a loop instead of going from tile to tile, where the meta has now turned to a tile to tile meta due to the amount of killers that have (too many) powers to prevent survivors sticking around a single tile. The age of infinite loops was even prior to that.
- Sloppy Butcher being ran on most killers, except for Billy and Plague, Nurses Calling, BBQ and the fourth perk was either Thanatophobia(back when it also affected healing), Pop, Ruin, Corrupt, M&A(smaller TR, wider vision, making it easier to find and sneak up on healers), Stridor(to counter IW) or NOED. Kinda depended on the killer and the addons which of those perks were used. There was the information meta too, where there was BBQ, Nurses Calling, Bitter Murmur and Discordance on a lot of killers. They were also the era where Doctor was quite prevalent and Clown and Bubba barely existed(aka, killer variety was super low). Yeah, there were still gen regression builds, but most of them didnt really apply unless you knew it was a 4-man SWF because they brought toolboxes. But the anti-healing was mainly done so that people wouldnt heal up at all, turning basically any killer into an instadown killer. Adrenaline was also super common to heal up and save time after the final gen. The information meta arose due to the hiding meta.
Some of these only lasted like 4 months due to the opponents picking counterplay to that meta, others lasted for years. The anti-healing meta was kinda demolished when Thana was changed due to Legion already being hard to heal against and his mangled addon in combination with thana made it basically so in certain maps, all you needed to do was stab everyone once and they would remain injured for the rest of the game.
-
@AlkaloidssOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2930564#Comment_2930564
I agree with OP but I also agree with you on the hitting surv on the hook penalty. Then again, if the killer does that he is basically already punishing himself by wasting precious time. If the surv wastes too much tbagging, well no problem, just press E! Slugging however is a viable and sometimes necessary tactic. And even if the killers decides to let you all bleed out for the "lulz", tell how often does that actually happen? Then tell me how often do survs teaback click their flashlight.
Also I think its hilarious that you mind getting slugged as a form toxicity which barely happens but are completely okay with killers having to deal with survs toxicity literally every match.
"to let you all bleed out for the "lulz", tell how often does that actually happen?"
Just this week: 12 matches where 2 survivors were dead, the 3rd survivor was slugged and left to bleed out because the killer demanded a 4k(with the logic of OP, the killer should be made blind and deaf if a survivor has been slugged for over 2 minutes)
5 times where someone had TTV in their name being slugged untill they nearly died, then picked up, brought to the hatch, only to be dropped in front of it with the hatch being closed and the survivor dying.
How often did anyone get slugged for strategy? 3 times. Once because they were next to a hook, the other 2 times were Myers and Oni having their abilities ready and use that power as much as possible.
So yeah, slugging in toxicity happens much more often than not. In strategic slugging, I get slugged for 2 minutes at best unless I crawl away. In a 2v1? You better believe you're getting slugged untill they caught the other survivor. And DC'ing so they can get hatch gets you punished.
Now, to tbagging and flashlight clicking: how often is it actually toxic? Does it grab your attention? Does it give you reasons to chase them instead of someone else? So they taunted you and you fell for it. How is that toxic?
The only time tbagging and flashlight clicking can be considered remotely toxic is inside an opened exitgate or on top of the hatch. Any other scenario, they are taunting you and you can simply ignore them.
So, how often do you truly have toxic teabag/clickies in your matches? Not that often, especially not if you kill everyone. Slugging for the 4k is super common tho, and I cannot wait to have a basekit bleedout/basekit self pick-up once 2 survivors are dead so that the killer cannot cheese a 4k anymore.
-
@_AdamFrancis_ said:
Seriously, where was this energy when there were characters confirmed straight/bi/? SERIOUSLY, I don't understand why it's OK when straight people get representation but when the LGBTQ community does it's an issue.
And for anyone questioning why this post is needed, I'll put a small essay (tldr will be in comments because I know people don't have time to read an entire Bible on here.
Ever since I was a kid, I was bullied for acting a lil too... you know 💀💀💀
It eventually got to the point where I would literally suppress my feelings for crushes and people I loved just to fit in.
(good God I'm tearing up while making this)
It was so bad that I eventually ended up dating girls even though I barely like them sexually. ( I am bisexual but have more of a preference towards men ).
Eventually when I came out at 14, I got kicked out and had to live on the streets for a few months. It was rough, and it was all because I simply liked men.
So when I finally met Kason (my boyfriend) my world changed.
He and my brother introduced me to DBD.
So when I saw that David was confirmed gay, me and the rest of the LGBT community rejoiced and celebrated. You wanna know why?
Because if we didn't celebrate it, who would've?
TLDR: I got bullied and got kicked out of the households for being 🌈 when I was a teenager. I met my bf Kason, who introduced me to DBD, and when I saw David was gay, me and the LGBT community rejoiced because who else would've?
And Kason, if you see this (even though you probably don't use the forums, just know that I love you too much to even put into words.
Thing is, the only characters that can arguably be straight, were Wraith and Nurse. Outside that, the only thing related to sexuality was David having an ex-girlfriend(I mean, maybe the newer lore has more direct confirmation, I havent been keeping up to date since last November).
None of the characters are confirmed to be straight. Sexuality has previously been left ambiguous on purpose. Raising the bells about confirming someone to be gay when all sexuality has been super obscure in the first place is just a weird thing to do. It feels like it's done just to recieve that pat on the back when previous statements have been following the "sexuality unknown, you're free to imagine characters as you feel they would".
Personally, I did see David as straight or bi due to the mention of the ex-gf, I have no issues with him being gay, plenty of people who truly discover their sexuality after they have tried the norm. In my mind, I wouldnt be surprised if Dwight is gay or trans and being too shy to come out. There are characters I personally see as straight, Felix is one of them, but someone else I have spoken too sees Felix as gay, either way, I wouldnt really care. There has been community consensus on the sexuality of characters.
Now, what I think would have been more groundbreaking instead, is revealing in the lore that David is gay, without making a twitter post to it first. To me, it's a much more impactful statement if a company slides in that lore as if it's expected that one of the characters is LGBT instead of a big PR stunt.
It's not the addition of diverse representation, it's the way they dealt about it. Personally, I have seen BHVR as a very unique company when dealing with LGBT matters, they added a Pride flag casually, as it simply was expected. They didnt really make a huge announcement about it compared to other charms. They didnt really change their logo with a pride flag(there has been some in pride-related posts, but their main logo remained the same, except DBD Mobile), BUT they did make the fog that was in the background represent the pride flag instead. That's much more unique than practically all other companies simply slapping a filter on top of their logo and call it a day. I am just disappointed in the fact that they went the way they did. I would have loved to see someone reading the lore realizing that David is gay, share it with the community and blow up that way. That's a dedicated fanbase discovering something that doesnt really matter for gameplay reasons, but matters to them personally, being added as if it was the norm rather than something special.
But I guess my disgruntledness about the announcement means I am anti-lgbt instead.
-
@FeryGEN said:
i know more bad words! Meg Main, Felix, Dead Hurd:) How is it works that censorship?
I think they used a learning AI to recognise insults, and with things as "you #########" being censored, people instead started using stuff like "meg head" as an insult more often.
From an AI perspective, its completely logical that some of the words get censored. Which is good on one hand, especially for people who stream the game. It prevents anti-TOS stuff from happening for example.
From a logical perspective, why not simply ask a list from companies like Twitch on what words are bannable on stream and put that through the filter instead? Especially now there is that Twitch Prime collaboration too.
-
@mischiefmanaged said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920523#Comment_2920523
A full rank reset means that matchmaking is chaotic and random on rank reset day. Then those who rank up have hour long queues and nobody to play with. Both of these are undesirable. There's also still no reliable way to rank down. Doing it that way would mean matchmaking didn't exist for most people for the larger part of a month. This also assumes that people are playing the game during that time period.
Again, this stuff was already tried. It already had problems. A small modification wouldn't meaningfully change things. There is no meaningful difference between pipping with bloodpoints versus pipping with emblems because that wasn't the root of the problem and you wouldn't reasonably expect to get a different result. The developers would be wasting a bunch of time they could be using to experiment with changes to dead hard. I'd rather have that change.
"A full rank reset means that matchmaking is chaotic and random on rank reset day."
I do not see an issue with this, as I said again, tryhards in DBD will always play ASAP on reset anyway, casuals dont. There will be a tiny bit of chaos, but any true reset day would have chaos the first day. Just because its once a month rather than once every 6 months or once a year doesnt mean chaos is the natural order of things on reset.
As for ranking up, I mean, plenty of people playing, its not a difference between people who have 800 MMR and people who have 3000 MMR, its only a difference of 20 ranks. As for ranking down, also really doesnt matter too much. It doesnt happen right now, and a much smaller portion reaches rank 1 than before. While rank 1 still doesnt mean too much compared to skill, it is a much more meaningful when it comes to the playstyle of people now than it was before.
So no, it hasnt really been tried out. It literally never existed before. There is a huge difference in pipping with BP and pipping with emblems. There are plenty of games where I would have 100% pipped with BP but not with emblems, there are practically no games where I would have depipped with BP but not with emblems. They have some similarities, if you get camped, you depip either way, if you escape and did some totems along the way, you would pip either way, but the games that come inbetween are much more common and they dont overlap.
"There is no meaningful difference between pipping with bloodpoints versus pipping with emblems because that wasn't the root of the problem and you wouldn't reasonably expect to get a different result."
I mean, there would be a different result, the question is how different will that result be. Here's the facts: 1. it was easier to pip with BP than with emblems. 2. it was easier to climb the ranks when the reset was only resetting you 1 tier. 3. there are significantly less players reaching red ranks than before.
Those are quite large changes. Large enough to note down and potentially test for.
"The developers would be wasting a bunch of time they could be using to experiment with changes to dead hard. I'd rather have that change."
The devs working on DH are still working on DH. You cant really experiment with DH changes, you need a PTB for that in the first place and they have their own playtesters. Other devs, the ones that are not actively coding, are capable of simply flicking the switch. Not really wasting any time at all. All they have to do is replace a "true" statement to "false"(or the opposite way) and send it to the server. When it comes to perks, they need to fully update the game to send changes to the server.
-
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920276#Comment_2920276
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920476#Comment_2920476
I feel I've just wasted my time with this whole thing. You have ignored, diminished, or misconstrued just about every point I have raised. This game and these forums can sink. I'm done.
Oh, I didnt ignore them, I just called you biased as you have ignored all perks and addons from the opposition in your post for no real reason, even though the drawbacks that were added on DS alone have had much bigger implications than Adrenaline Vial for example. You didnt raise any point worth considering, you simply made a post saying basically "plz make killer stronger, I dont feel strong enough and these drawbacks are holding me back". If drawbacks in balancing really was an issue, why not bring up any of the opposition? Because "SuRvIvOr'S aRe ToO sTrOnG, tHeY nEeD iT"?
If you really had a point at all, you would have also considered removing drawbacks on the survivor side, but you and I both know that DS without drawbacks will just lead to survivors doing gens in your face while using Unbreakable and No Mither, clearly giving a reason for drawbacks and thus invalidating your entire post.
-
@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920512#Comment_2920512
You can take a tape out from a TV next to a gen, do the entire gen, and then go drop the tape off and suffer essentially 0 consequence for doing it.
Survivors with headphones are never going to be cut off by a Sadako teleporting in front of them. You can hear it a mile away, and attentive players will realize you have teleported.
A genrush SWF is gonna slam out the gens in like 4-5 minutes. Some of them don't even loop, cause they don't have to. They send you to a very survivor sided map and just predrop everything. Tell me what Sadako does against those types of teams? Besides dodge the lobby?
I mean, you can get a mask on from Piggy, do an entire gen and get it off and suffer 0 consequence from it.
You can hear the teleporting, but the TV has to be really close and the gens practically untouched for you to be able to hear her.
TP around a lot to pressure with Condemned stacks, use her visuals to confuse survivors(not just in loops, also faking pallet breaks etc) and if that all doesnt work to gain an average of 2 kills, you've simply been matched with an S-tier team when you shouldnt have been. Meaning you're either mismatched due to long queues(which has been changed), or you've been in a higher MMR than you should have been, in which case you should take it as a compliment.
I mean, what do you expect from a team that has prepared to face another blight or nurse? They have come overly prepared, if you did not come overly prepared yourself, you're gonna lose. With the changes to MMR, I doubt you'd be facing a genrush SWF often, if at all.
And yeah, Sadako needs some changes that are mainly QoL than objective buffs, like making Condemned survivors also exposed, or people working on gens next to a TV that is turned on also gain condemned stacks as if they were carrying a tape, or Sadako giving 2 stacks to people who are carrying a tape, rather than just 1. All those 3 combined would make a nice bounce back-and-forth during the entire match, one where turning off TV's is going to be a good idea, just as long as you dont turn off too many.
-
@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920500#Comment_2920500
- What? You didn't even address my point. Tunneling existed before, sure. Tunneling is even more incentivized by BHvR because of the lost time from all the second chance perks. At least before the second chance perks you could go for 12 hooks without worrying that the 30 seconds you spent in chase will be wasted because of a Dead Hard or CoH.
- How is it objectively wrong? Pig was worse at one point, she is still bad. Still awful. Legion was OP on release but quickly nerfed into awfulness. The rest of the killers have a general rating based on their performance across all maps. This performance has been the same for years.
- No. Tunneling against SWFs is even more effective because of altruism. Tunneling against SWFs is also effective because they lack the coordination to realize tunneling is occurring and work on gens effectively. Getting a kill before 3 gens are completed greatly swings things in favor of the killer.
- In terms of strategy the meta has always been the same.
- You can patrol the gens around the hook. Also, killing someone early has always been a huge power boost for the killer. Maybe back when BNPs were OP gen patrolling was preferred over camping/tunneling but camping immediately after the first hook isn't preferred anyway. It's when the survivor is somewhat close to reaching second stage when camping gets juicy. SoloQ will at least be near to try and get the save and SWF are even more inclined to save. SWFs may stand a chance because they're on comms and can focus gens but even then an early kill is a huge boon to the killer.
- This was when infinite loops and uber loops were common. These were terrible from a design standpoint and removed. They should have never existed. Since their removal, the optimal strategy is to not be greedy, drop the pallet to be safe, and go to the next tile.
- Genrush does exist. It's the objective of the game for survivors. It's literally how they win.
- Going away from the hook to attract survivors to unhook because of no DS/BT was suitable if you knew another survivor was close by. Other than that, again, proxy camp the hook. BNPs pretty much cost killers the game anyways.
- You're right. Hex: Ruin wasn't added until about 6 months after release. So regression hasn't been meta for the whole six years. Just 5.5 years.
- Healing is meta because of how easy it is do with CoH, Self Care, SWF prevalence, and info perks like Empathy. Healing is always beneficial but the ease of it is and the frequency that it occurs is what makes it meta.
- no, I didnt miss your point. Your point was that killers tunnel more because of the second chance perks, when before second chance perks, all killers did was tunnel. Right now, killers dont always tunnel unless they have to, and they are forced to endure punishing mechanics to force through it. Like, how is killers tunneling out 1 survivor maybe 70% of the matches "incentiviced" by second chance perks, when prior to second chance perks 3 survivors were tunneled out 100% of the time. So you're simply plain wrong. You might still feel like you need to tunnel because of them, but what are the odds that you would proxy camp and tunnel someone if you knew no one had a second chance perk. Remember when DS was changed and people ran it less often, and there was no obsession when there was no DS? With your logic, that means less reason to tunnel right? Well, the opposite ended up happening. People were tunneled harder in games with no obsession than in games with obsession to the point that obsession was made basekit to stop tunneling in games where there was no DS. You're just objectively wrong that second chance perks incentivize tunnelling, when the opposite has been proven to be true on multiple occasions.
- Very shortly after the EGC changes, and even then was she still better due to having a basekit slowdown mechanic. The only argument people have for Myers being not the worst killer is basically the existance of Tombstone Piece. But with that logic, Pig isnt the worst killer because of the Tape addon and her being able to camp one of the boxes. That doesnt make sense. Pig has one of the strongest killer potentials by bouncing off objects. And yeah, that might take a lot of skill and time to even learn where those spots are, but if you're going to put the best Pig up vs the best Ghostface, odds are likely that Pig will win. If you play her Ambush normally and rely on her traps, then she's not really amazing, but use her Ambush to bounce off pallets or even into jungle gyms and most of your games will end up in hatch games. Thats not something Myers can say, most of Myers games end with all 5 gens done. Legion absolutely needed a nerf, he wasnt just OP, he was broken, busted, no counterplay available. Even the most OP builds have counterplay, and that is often why they havent been nerfed yet, because they have counterplay. Otherwise Nurse her 3-blink addon would have been nerfed again to compensate for recharge addons(if recharge addons themselves arent going to be reworked, that is).
- Not really, only when SWF is having fun, but those are the kind of SWF where you often dont even feel the need to tunnel in the first place. Randoms are objectively worse when it comes to that, SWF who intent to win would never even give you the oppertunity to tunnel someone out, especially if they havent been hooked yet. Most of the games I play with my friends where we intent to win are games where we have 1 person always doing gens and at least 1 person always standing in the way of the killer when someone might be tunneled and we win in most cases as the last remaining person bounces inbetween doing totems and healing up the person who gets in the way. When we dont care about the win, it's often not altruism causing our defeat, it's simply that doing gens is boring. Technically it is altruism since we only do altruistic stuff, but the alternative would be holding m1 and sometimes pressing spacebar.
- Only on a very basic level has the meta always been do gens and get kills. But in that sense, League of Legends never changed meta, it has always been take down the enemy nexus. Overwatch never changed meta, it was always take over the objective and hold. Among Us never changed meta, it was always kill the crewmembers vs finishing tasks/voting impostors out. But going a bit deeper than the basic level, the DBD meta has changed a lot. I played from the beginning and quit when the meta became obnoxious, by the time I came back, I skipped over at least 3 meta's. Tunneling has always been a viable strat, camping has always been viable, doing gens as fast as possible is pretty much the only goal survivors have. But calling it the meta strat? Nah. Meta for survivors switched from hiding and secretly doing gens to running into the open on and off. Again, I could pull up an entire list of things that have changed. Just because multiple other strategy existed and were being used doesnt make certain things any less meta. I have gone months without seeing Nurse and Blight running both Ruin and Pop. They might have been running 1 of the 2, but never both. Nowadays, its hard to find a Nurse and Blight that dont run both. What is the difference? The meta. With all that explained, I am going to try and rush through the rest: a. not patrolling gens, you're prioritizing the hook over gens. Camping someone on second hook is a different strat than camping. The main camping complaint is killers camping from stage 1. b. nope, it was even switched up quite recently. Going from tile to tile was always possible, short loops were also quite possible. A lot of killers gained anti-loop abilities which are effectively reducing the strenght of single tile loops, because that was what players complained about a lot, forcing survivors into a more tile to tile loop, which was responded with a lot of killers gaining more mobility instead, forcing survivors back into single tile loops. You have mixes of both, ofcourse, but the main course of action has switched. There was even a time where single tile loops were impossible against doc, and times where single tile loops were the only real reason of preventing being hit by doc. And Doc was the first true anti-loop killer. c. nope, what the community has called a genrush, aka, 4 toolboxes(which now no longer exist btw), with bnp, wirespool, old prove thyself and old leader, only took 3 minutes for all survivors to get out even despite all the efforts of the killer. Nowadays, even with the most efficient way of doing gens is still at least 4 minutes for survivors to get out, and that is assuming the killer is focussing on 1 survivor only, never checks gens and would camp the survivor to death. If the same efforts are given, the game tends to last 7-8 minutes. Genrushing no longer exists. Even with the best team and the best tools, it takes much, much longer than 3 minutes. Nowadays, its just survivors doing their job. Would you call any killer that is camping a "killrusher"? Ofcourse not, that would be ridiculous. But there was a day where killrushing existed, back when Ebony Mori's werent yet nerfed. That no longer exists, so neither does killrushing. With that same logic, genrushing no longer exists. Camping has issues with the fun of games, not the balance of games. Same is true for tunneling. Which is why they are called out, because it is super boring, and in some cases coughcoughbubbacoughcough uncounterable. d. even when you didnt know, it was quite a good option. If there was a survivor nearby even without you knowing, they would give themselves away. And if they were SWF, you would know the other 2 wouldnt even be close enough to rescue, forcing 1 off a gen. As for BNP costing the killer the game? Only if you're oblivious. 2 Pop's fully negate 3 BNP's. 1 Pain Resonance fully negates an entire BNP. Ruin, on average, removes the worth of 8 BNP's per match. Saying BNP causes killers to lose is like saying Ruin is the instawin for a killer. Neither are true. e. Kicking gens was introduced earlier, which was also the first 3-gen meta for killers like Billy, as hiding from the killer was still survivor meta. Before, that wasnt even considered since survivors could be doing any gens and Billy could zoom around the map without preventing gens from progressing. My whole point is that new stuff and changes change the meta. Sometimes a bit slower than you think. Some meta's are shortlived, sure. In fact, there wasnt really a gen regression meta for a bit after the Undying nerf. It took almost an entire month for gen regression perks becoming more common again.
- it's not always as easy with self-care, but yeah, your last sentence pretty much supports my entire claim "the frequency and ease is what makes it meta". There was a very long anti-healing meta between a gen-regression meta and tunnel meta. I have seen gen regression builds in the anti-healing meta, and I have seen anti-healing builds in gen-regression meta, but that doesnt mean both were consistently meta. Right now, it's only a matter of days before killers remember that Sloppy Butcher is super powerful against CoH. Even before its nerf. I dont think CoH needed to be reduced to 50%, now its gonna be objectively worse than running self-care. Especially once killers realize that Sloppy Butcher practically negates any positive effect from CoH.
-
@JimbusCrimbus said:
Cool?
As a fellow gay person myself, here's the part where I don't really care. shrug lol
Ohhhh they retroactively made a character gay. Big POG. It took them YEARS to do that. But yes, let's give them all the praise in the world, for taking this long, do to something as important as representation, and half-assing it like normal.
I mean, the whole deal before was "sexuality remains unconfirmed". The only one that had any potential sexuality confirmed was David(ironically) as he had a female ex and Wraith and Nurse seemed to have had a relationship, but none of them had their sexuality confirmed.
I agree it's a bit odd to change that now, but to say there wasn't representation? That's kinda wrong. Ethnicity and sex were the only true confirmed things in DBD, the rest was kinda up for own interpretation. And people might find that lazy, but imo thats one of the better positions to hold as it leaves more room to explore a character. In this case, the argument could be made that the tomes are finally exploring David's sexuality further and thus the official confirmation for clicks, but to make it such a big deal imo is more an HR thing. I think it would have had a bigger impact if they just let players explore the tomes and find out themselves. Would have probably gone viral too.
-
@Phasmamain said:
Didn’t David already have a girlfriend in the lore? I’ll have to read the time to see if they did it well
I mean, he had one for sure. Technically it's always possible for someone to not realize they have a certain sexuality due to whatever outside things, but I do think David would have better been off bi.
Overall, the main story pushed was more in the lines of "the only things confirmed are sex and ethnicity by default" around characters. Which I am overall a bigger supporter of, as giving a character a defined sexuality it also limits creativity a bit, especially when it comes to fans.
I personally find it much more important for kids to have confirmed sexuality than for adults, especially because IMO adults wouldn't need to confirm their sexuality on characters who do not have their sexuality defined. Especially not when there are cosmetics that could easily represent more than one. I don't necessarily see it as an issue, my biggest issue is more people that say that the method of "their sexuality is forever unconfirmed" is lazy rather than free for fan interpretation. Because let's be honest, plenty of characters have been thought to be LGBT+ by a very large portion of the game. The only people who really have a big reaction to this are people who are utterly against it(I mean, look at the amount of people negatively reacting to the pride flag, those people will now never play David again), and people who think unconfirmed is lazy. The rest will either think it's too late or don't care at all.
-
@Sludge said:
There is no problem with NOED. It's pure entitlement, not only do the survivors hold all the power over it's use, it requires getting hit which is the survivors fault. Unlike many survivor perks that reward misplay.
'survivors hold all power over its use'.
Oh, so getting downed and hooked next to noed while it spawns after I get downed, but me having no comms and thus no warning to my teammates, giving the killer a free 2k is in the hands of survivors? Bubba getting a lucky early down and facecamping a survivor, forcing all remaining survivors to finish all gens in the remaining 2 minutes it takes for the teammate to die on hook, assuming they don't give up early nor miss any skillchecks making it impossible to even touch a single totem before Bubba moves from the hook gives survivors full power over it?
If survivors truly had all power over the activation of NOED, it would indeed be fine. But that is obviously not the case.
As for perks rewarding misplay. Which ones?
DS? I mean, you tunneled, that is not my misplay. DH? Unless I get really lucky tiles, a hit is inevitable, not a misplay, or do you mean using it would have rewarded a misplay? Maybe, but if it did, it was also a bad DH that should lead into a quick down. If it isn't a quick down, was it really a misplay? Maybe from your perspective, but so is losing 5 gens from a survivor perspective a misplay, making NOED a reward for misplay by default, or any endgame perk for that matter. BT Maybe the play was done because you were there. So really, what misplay gets rewarded? And that's only 3 that I can think of that might even have a hint of "misplay". None other that I can think of. In fact, Undying is more of a misplay perk fix than any of those, as it literally fixes the fact that a hex got found early on.
-
@mischiefmanaged said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912019#Comment_2912019
I feel it needs to be remembered that the rank-based matchmaking that you're asking to have tested was the matchmaking for years. I'm not entirely sure what you're expecting them to learn by asking to test it over a couple of months. They already know what that system looks like and they didn't like it.
You'd need to propose other changes to test too and that would be much more involved and each person would come in and say, "You didn't actually test it correctly because of X reason." You'd also have to take away the rank reset to 20 and then the grade rewards with it. All of this for a system they already tried tweaking, didn't really like, and to replace something that the development team thinks is healthier for the game.
And what's the end goal exactly?
The improvements to the rank-based system would be probably:
- Get rid of the safety pip.
- Make it much more difficult to pip once.
Once you implement these, it's probably going to look more similar to the current kills/escape system than you'd think.
No, it's not. Because rankbased matchmaking that was there "for years" was matchmaking that reset you down only 4 ranks at most. The matchmaking back in the old-old days where there was a full reset, except pips were based on BP, and then it was changed to a victory cube for killers, but still BP for survivors. Then the full reset was removed and a new pip system was introduced. The system I am asking for is the current pipping system in combination with the old(or current) full reset.
So how does a full reset to ash 4 with the current pip system, where maybe 20% of the community gets red rank consistently(note, not permanently) on either sides(note 2, not both sides) even compare to the old matchmaking where 40% of the community was permanently red rank on both sides? And a large portion of them being red rank basically on day 1.
It's actually significantly more difficult to reach rank 1 now than before, especially early on in the month. For anyone to be red rank day 1 is only for the most dedicated players who are good enough to consistently double pip.
And no, the matchmaking being tested over a longer period time at random intervals would lead to good results to see how much it has changed compared to prior, as players basically have a random spread on the grade system.
As for your points. 1. No, camping and tunneling alone created the need for the safety pip, and it's basically a reward for not camping and tunneling all game so that one cannot be dispersed. 2. Not really? It's not that easy to get that first pip for survivors, maybe that should be done for killers, which makes sense, as the double pip requirement is also tougher than survivors where the single pip is arguably much easier.
So since point 1 is an absolute no just for the sake of camping and tunneling, and point 2 barely needing any changes, no, it wouldnt look even close to similar to kills/escape. Unless you want to make it unable for survivors to pip if they dont escape, or make it impossible for killers to pip if they dont gain at least 3 kills. Both being quite insane statements.
Also:
"You'd also have to take away the rank reset to 20 and then the grade rewards with it." Why would you need to do so? I never implied that. The whole point about turning MMR off was to use the grades instead. So why remove the reset to 20? Because all players start at the same day? Well, people who are rank 1 would definitely play on the day of reset. People who are rank 6 might not always play the day of reset. People who are rank 14 might not even play for 6 more days before they boot up DBD. So why remove the reset to 20? It might have 1-2 days of uncomfortable games for some people, but that would sort itself out within the first 3 days. Also, why remove the grade rewards? The only reason to remove that, is if you removed the rank reset to 20 again, but I never implied that. That was all you.
-
@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920400#Comment_2920400
Her counterplay is the same counterplay as literally every other M1 killer. Throw a pallet and she can't get you. Flicker mindgames only work if survivors let them work. Otz was winning as her, but he didn't seem to particularly enjoy it. Her only real strength, mobility, can be taken away by survivors as well.
Only on open strong pallets. Add walls and you can easily surprise survivors. Dowsey has clearly shown what is and isnt possible on a lot of maps.
As for Otz not enjoying her, so what? Otz also didnt enjoy playing Nurse, Bubba, Huntress, Doctor, Freddy, Myers. Otz really enjoys Nemesis, Pyramid Head, Trapper and Plague. Let alone that Otz also doesnt really enjoy Oni compared to Hag or Pinhead. Dowsey really enjoys Sadako. Is that a good argument? I wouldnt say so.
As for the mobility being taken away, not really. For survivors to actively take mobility away is survivors either having the upperhand or Sadako not pressuring the right sides. If you have 0 mobility on the map, you have survivors not doing gens, if survivors are not doing gens, that's free time to dedicate to breaking pallets/walls that need removing or even extra time you can dedicate to a chase if need be. Her strength is lack of visibility mid-chase, and you cant tell the difference between Sadako using her power or her breaking a pallet untill its too late to turn back. Let alone that you can pick survivors up without being blinded as survivors never get the timing right on the animation.
And I agree with many others that her speedboost after teleporting should be made basekit, as it's quite important, but the biggest mistake I have seen Sadako players make is not using teleports often enough. How often do survivors feel the need to even grab a tape in games you play against her? Not often, because Sadako isnt teleporting often.
-
@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920400#Comment_2920400
- The tunneling meta is created by BhVR because of the numerous second chance perks survivors get, numerous escape options they have, and the fact that the killer is always operating on a time constraint. Perks like CoH incentivize tunneling because of the abundance of healing, thus increasing the time it takes to down a survivor and penalizing the killer significantly for allowing anyone to heal. The meta is created based on the rules of the game. The players don't make the rules for optimal strategies, they come up with the strategies based on the rules.
- Yes, not all killers can be S tier. We've had the same killers at S tier for years. The same killers at garbage tier for years. Certain killers just have no play making abilities. The survivor is the playmaker and these killers rely on the survivor messing up. There should be basic killers for sure but not so many.
- Toxicity is created by incentivizing toxic gameplay like tunneling and camping.
- Survivor meta has been the same for years. DH/SB, DS, BT, UB/IW. Killer meta has more variety but for the most part has always relied on regression perks heavily. As for your description of metas, I have no idea what you're talking about. on many of them
- Gen patrolling as meta? As opposed to what, standing still? It's literally the objective of the game.
- Long/short loop meta? You mean looping? Another core objective of the game. This is opposed to what, standing still again? TBH, looping isn't even really meta and never has been. Just predrop and run.
- Genrush/healing has always been meta for survivor. That's the meta you nailed it.
- Camping/tunneling has always been meta for killer. That's the meta you nailed it.
- Regression has been meta for killers as well. You nailed it. So that's the meta for killers. Camp/tunnel and regress. For years. There aren't even any good camping/tunneling perks!!! Yet devs keep adding survivor perks which incentivize these things!!
- There is a lack of variety. The meta (tunnel/camp genrush/heal) has been the same. Seeing the same perks over and over again contributes to the lack of variety. The same game mode for years is a lack of variety.
- No, tunneling meta existed before. Second chance perks were introduced because of a tunneling meta. CoH doesnt even incentivise tunneling at all. You just chase a survivor, down them, hook them, chase another survivor, down them, hook them. Odds are that the survivor getting unhooked was getting healed by the survivor who unhooked them anyway.
- Objectively wrong. Myers has been there for a long time, but there were times where Legion was worse, where Pig was worse. There was a time where Myers was B-tier. Nurse has been the only consistent killer who has always been S-tier. The rest of killers have fluctuated based on available maps, perks, etc.
- It's not incentivized. Tunneling and camping often leads to only 1 kill. It's only when the lobby has random players who cannot communicate that tunneling and camping leads to victory.
- Perkwise maybe, but strategy-wise? There was a time where unhooking survivors ASAP was more beneficial than leaving them on hook for example, unless there was an ebony mori. As for the rest: a. as opposed to camping, yes. There is 2 main activities when you hook a survivor: 1. camp. 2. patrol gens. b. There is a difference between long loop(aka, holding w, going from tile to tile ASAP to save on resources) and short loops(pre-dropping pallets the moment you get to a tile to get the most of the tile before moving on). There have been days where pre-dropping pallets and sticking in the same area was much more beneficial than going from tile to tile. We are now in a tile to tile meta due to a lot of killers punishing survivors for being at a single area, while back in the day, survivors were punished much more harshly for going from tile to tile than otherwise. c. Genrush doesnt exist anymore, even with toolboxes, killers recieve plenty of time to cause a ruckus. Healing, well, duh, its a core mechanic, not meta. d. As shown in A, no, its not been. There was a long time where going away from the hook ASAP to cause survivors to unhook even faster was much more beneficial than camping. That was right after the introduction of BT in fact. e. well, 100% wrong, because there has been a long time where killers couldnt even regress gens. Let alone that Ruin didnt exist for an entire year and Pop didnt exist for at least another year. The meta was downing people as quickly as possible, learn things like moonwalking asap(I've seen players with 1000 hours who dont even bother moonwalking, it's quite beneficial and could have easily given them 5 more hooks than they ended up with). So no, objectively wrong, and I am talking from experience. Maybe what you say is true starting from late 2018/early 2019, but prior to that, the worst you would encounter was Billy with Ebony/Ivory Mori and Dying Light proxy-camping the obsession, when the rest of killers actually tended to be quite far away from the hook and rarely tunneled unless they were Bubba.
- Again, there isnt a lack of variety, its simply that there is a "best build". Nerfing all current meta perks isnt going to create more variety, its just gonna swap out the best builds with the second best builds. And the meta has bounced, it tends to follow which ever meta gets stirred up the most. If camping is the best strat, survivors will default to sitting on gens. If doing gens is the best strat, then killers will camp. If looping is better, survivors will actively search killers to distract, and patrolling gens would be the best strat.
Now, you can easily say that games will have a mixture of each, but that's not meta, that's simply mechanics. Healing is a mechanic, survivors being able to heal up isnt going to be meta. Whether or not survivors prioritize healing over anything else dictates whether it is meta or not. If survivors rather sit injured on a gen than heal up, would you really call healing meta? You do, but how is it even meta? If survivors heal up before doing gens, is genrushing meta? Obviously not, because they are healing up. You cannot have genrushing and healing both being meta at the same time, it's one or the other. Either they sit on gens injured, or they heal up before doing anything else. Just like patrolling gens and camping are seperate meta's. Either you're camping the hooks, or you're not. Different meta's can exist for/against different killers sure. Like how it's never been meta to heal up against a Legion unless he was actively coming for you. But that doesnt mean the meta doesnt change overall.