NeverSolus
NeverSolus
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@HexPectoPatronum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111915#Comment_4111915
I get your point but Trail of Torment is counterable, this combo isn't. You can get closer to the killer but then one of your mates will become the Obsession and Oblivious for 60 seconds, not really a difference. I had a recent match against a Nurse who played these perks and I was literally oblivious 70 % of the match. The problem is not the combo itself, but that it triggers too often.
It's counterable by keeping everyone within 40m. Which isn't all that hard to do really. But I do agree it's a difficult and annoying thing to counter.
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I don't think this is all that problematic. Partially because it's always the furthest survivor. Oblivious isn't that awful a status to be cycling that often - it's actually pretty easy to get huge spans of undetectable and/or oblivious. Trail of Torment, by example, can last a very long time and can be cycled endlessly.
This won't keep a single survivor endlessly oblivious, but will cycle it and leave a survivor (cycling) oblivious in increments. I don't think this is an issue, but it is a strong synergy admittedly as I have run it.
The reason I don't find it to be an issue is, that's 50% of your perk slots locked up for constant oblivious and triggered aura read. I could have gotten similar, if not better results by running Trail of Torment and Deerstalker, or a number of other combinations. Again, **is it strong**? Sure. But I don't know that it's 50% of your perks strong in a meta where Killers tend to run three to four slowdown perks to limit generator speed. If we want them to stop running four gen slowdown, we're going to need synergy combos like this to lure them away from the practice.
Admittedly I prefer [Lethal Pursuer] [Deerstalker] [Nurses Calling] [Trail of Torment] as a combo I often use, as obsession can be tricky. I run an obsession build with [Nemesis] and it performs at strong value for me, but I won't be changing out any of the perks in that build for Celestial Witness as I get equal of not greater results already from that build. The build in question being [Nemesis] [Furtive Chase] [Friend's 'Til the End] [Play With Your Food]. -
Hope you liked ''Waiting for Godot."
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@Pizzaman said:
Wait, wait, that's strange.
Isn't the narrative that every match is against a literal bully team (you know, the teams that go after killers) in this game? I'm surprised.
Didn't we have countless discussions about the toxicity of t-bagging, flashlight clicking and pointing? This is baffling. Almost as if these discussions were over-exaggerated.
They weren't over-exaggerated, it happens constantly and the dev's themselves have encountered it. The problem of the OP post isn't toxicity being absent for a killer, the problem is that BHVR made toxicity a requirement to unlock an achievement. Naturally, the toxicity is less prevalent with the angel as it gives the angel a benefit.
People not being toxic to angel isn't evidence of absence. It's literally built to create that scenario. Please do not be disingenuous. -
I'm still in awe this is being discussed. And I still don't understand Vigil being brought into this. Is this just a 'they are nerfing things I like and therefor I will rage about new things they made' post, or?
Just… just break the totem. It ain't that deep. You don't even need to bring a perk to find the totem, totem placement is notoriously bad. Just look for the totem and break it. You're done. You have literally spent more time on this post than you will spend on the next year breaking the totem in combined break time.
Jesterkind has been a god-send of generosity and benevolence on this topic. I had to stop responding to avoid being sassy. This really isn't a problem. -
@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111782#Comment_4111782
classic killer main "skill issue" response.
We are getting a hex to absolutely murder Exhaustion Perks at the same time vigil is going to be reworked to only affect exhaustion perks, and Tunneling has just been buffed and Hex totems are totally unstable.
TOTH makes this perk unfathomably overkill. a 15% nerf to haste is strong, this takes SB, Lithe, Breakout, Balanced from 150% to 115% Movement Speed WITH AN AURA READ. suddenly viable distance needed to survive a chase is entirely gone and the hex totem starts the match without being ignited so nobody knows it's in play. acting like this isn't ridiculously strong when paired with certain killers and perks is unbelievable.Devour hope is an instant one shot that gives haste. You know the counter? You break the totem. If it glows, it goes.
And this is the totem you take exception with? I'm so confused. -
… Ah we for real right now? Just break the totem. It's not even that good of a perk.
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I run full aura on her and find it's very rewarding - until I find a surv who actually dodges. Any survivor paying attention dodges my beams with ease, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. I move too slowly to pressure outside of the beams, which means paying attention and dodging isn't a counter for Judgment, it's a hard counter.
So, no. I wouldn't say full aura is oppressive. I would say it's annoying for survivors to stay on edge and dodge every laser cooldown, but so long as they do so it's basically an assured win. -
This is a good call out. I'm not even anti-tunnel as most are, but this is something they need to fix if they're serious about the anti-tunneling systems. They added a color-coded easy-mode to tunneling, effectively. Which is wildly unnecessary.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111736#Comment_4111736
Few years ago it was fine and dead hard was the insane one, the goalposts are moving. I can bet a year from now on lithe will be the insane one
The game isn't the same as it was a few years ago. A few years ago 'Thrill of the Hunt' being nerfed would be laughable. Apples and Oranges, friends.
@cammoking123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111736#Comment_4111736
Insane? I see we're getting our talking points from the content creators now. SB was a solid good, but nothing so over the top in needed to nerfed. Did it really bother killers that much just to put in a little effort? Anyways, 40 seconds of exhaustion for 2 seconds of haste makes a trash perk. At least Drama gave you a chance at something extra.
That was a rather cruel dismissal for someone just disagreeing with you - also, people are permitted to think something is insane without it being from a CC, you realize?
And as a killer main I can tell you I didn't mind SB. If I saw someone had it, I just 100% ignored them the rest of the game and got to kill a pool of 3 people instead of 4. If two have SB, I just kill the two who don't. It often resulted in better games for me, as it turned SB into a perk that effectively said 'tunnel whoever isn't me as I run off.'
SB Was an issue because people could trigger it in any condition from a 99%. 40 seconds of of exhaustion for 2 seconds of haste is fine, given you can just run vigil to cut the timer down. You're not supposed to be running a marathon with your haste, it's supposed to be a situational trigger.
Exhaust only exists to trigger a handful of perks anyway, so what it's 'worth' isn't really grounded. If you don't think 40:2 is 'worth' it, then don't run it. Run Lithe. Run Perfect landing. Run Dead hard. Run something that is 'worth' the exhaust. -
I haven't come up with an idea yet that can't be abused. Endurance off hook currently is more often used to body block for a free hit, which is abuse of the system - it's just one we kind of learned to expect and accept. The problem we have after that is of course that any changes made that can be abused will just become standard abuse.
Take Jester's idea above,@jesterkind said:
Complete intangibility is one of the stronger options, but it does have the snag of potentially making certain types of saves uncounterable, which is a problem I've never come up with a good solution for personally.
My proposal these days is a bit more subtle: When a survivor's unhooked, they get a mark on their character hud. That mark can only be on one survivor at once, and disappears when performing a conspicuous action. If a survivor with that mark is hooked, they do not gain a hook state.
Pair that with a hard scaling back of post-hook Endurance (removing it from perks entirely and scaling the basekit down to 8 seconds maximum) and you have a situation where focusing someone out of the match from word go is impossible, but survivors can't bodyblock without being put on the ground so it's much harder to weaponise.
which is a really good idea. The problem with it being that if a survivor can gain a condition by which they can get hooked without gaining a hook state, this can be abused for hook and unhook trigger perks.
Ultimately the problem is that Killers are in a good spot, but survivors are also in a good spot. Which means struggles for advantage pop up. Surv's can pop gens like they're listening to Initial D, which puts pressure out on the Killer to perform. The killer often elects to perform in fashions the survivor side of the community doesn't like, such as tunneling.
So in light of this I would say the fix would need to be mechanical in reflection of hook states, but also in reflection of that pressure allotment. The real hilarity to this is, if you put a giant red ball in the middle of the map that gave 3k bloodpoints if it got hit after every hook, most killers would stop tunneling just to take the bp and reset between each hook.
It's just a problem of incentives, not punishments. Give the killers proper incentive to not do these things, and you'll see better response I think. But try to punish them for doing it, and they'll just find the work-around. Because tunneling/slugging are, themselves, work around tactics - the people using them are already showing you by default they are willing to find and use work-arounds.
I think honey will catch more flies than vinegar on this one, I guess is my point. -
She's not awful, until she is.
In skilled hands she's oppressive. The problem is that she's so easy to counter it's laughable. A good, coordinated team is impossible to handle.
Let me re-iterate that, I didn't say hard to handle, I said impossible. Her tells from the beam visibility to the beam interaction points themselves mean that a group coordinated and paying attention are not going to be hit by her lasers at mid to long range. Given her effective inability to handle looping and her 4.4 status, this means she becomes incapable of competing against high end players or SWF's.
Outside of that she's pretty damn decent. She's effectively nothing but a SoloQ slayer. Which… is really weird that they would release, but here we are. -
Still works really well. Was just using it last week.
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^ This
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@Smoe said:
All marked words and sentences needs to be corrected.
JUDGMENT'S LORE
- “Citites” should be “cities”.
- “Judgement” should be “Judgment” instead, to keep it consistent with the Killer's title.
- “Built the first shine“ should be “built the first shrine“
- “Repeated heresies“ should be “repeated acts of heresy“ instead. While the former is technically not incorrect, the latter just reads better.
- “Away form those“ should be “away from those“
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LET8CCJGEJXP/judgment.png
AURORA'S LORE
- “Vowed all“ should be “vowed that all“ instead. While the former is technically not incorrect, the latter just reads better.
- Just like above with Judgment's lore. "Judgement" should be "Judgment" instead in Aurora's lore as well, in order to keep it consistent with the Killer's title.
- "Terra Primus have dared seek the power of the Gods" should be "Terra Primus have dared to seek the power of the Gods." instead.
- "the sentio-circutry of the people fell dormant." should be "the sentio-circuitry of the people fell dormant." instead.
- "she beheld ruin where Ultracapitalis had stood." should be "she beheld the ruin of where Ultracapitalis had stood." instead.
- "for they had been her family since she renounced mother, and father and took on the name of Stardotter." should be "for they had been her family, ever since she had disowned her mother and father, and took on the name of Stardotter." instead.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UAPYI9YYHQOV/aurora.png
You do the good work.
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All due respect: There are few religions the killer would be acceptable to. I mean the game is full of simulated murder from the ground step, and mass torture on a secondary step. I don't particularly see drawing the line at this killer for a select religion as sensible. I have empathy for you, but it's a hard call. I would just as soon say no to any other religion making such a request, though, so I suppose I'm bias.
Unless I'm mistaken this game would be, at base, haram for the below reasons. I don't think the Judgment is the highest on the list of problems in this particular regard, but I may be wrong.
- Depicts Wars between people of this world and people from the sky, imbodying implications against Allah's word
- Depicts sanctifying the Cross
- Depicts approval/benefits of withcraft and magic, which glorifies Witches/magicians/sorcerors.
- Depicts being/participating in a non-muslim group with pride in belonging to said group.
- Physical harm, such as damage to the eyes or nervous system.
- Making individuals take violence and criminality lightly (Example of others: DOOM)
- Things that may corrupt a childs sense of reality by teaching them about a world of illusions and/or impossible things, such as coming back from the dead, supernatural powers that do not really exist, images of fictional entities, etc. -
@Mikeadatrix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110192#Comment_4110192
Good lord, any cheese with that whine?
Don't feed the troll. First you feed them then the next time you look over you have an infestation. Do you want ants? This is how you get ants.
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This is already being adjusted to stick to the generator rather than follow the killer.
Also the 'worse decision ever' being kicking a generator, I assume, is a rather strange thing to say. Do you feel this problem with all aura perks? -
@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109639#Comment_4109639
objects better in every way
Touché.
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… but is he wrong.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109614#Comment_4109614
That's not the case at all because I just want to point you towards shelter woods rework where they put a main building specifically for that reason and hills.
This used to be a very commonly complained flaw of that one map, yes we could use the tree's roots but it was not intended.
Trickster's delusion feels like an accidental oversight in that regard coz I think it's literally the only map you can't.
Lery's has middle to use, and Huntress can still long range shot in corridors, she can still use her power.
Balanced Landing only has basement stairs in Delusion.
Sorry for so many edits.I don't fully disagree, but I disagree enough to respectfully hold my side of the fence on this one. Your point is entirely valid mind you, my disagreement stems from 'if we do this with one, it should be done with others' and a lack of confidence that such a thing will be applied, ya'know?
Yes, Huntress can make 90 degree hallway shots in Lery's by example, but that limits her power to those directions, in those halls, filled with clutter and poor navmeshing on collisions. Equally, BL can be used at basement. Both are equally restrictive on the desired value of the kit and/or perk. It doesn't seem valid to me to fix one while stating the other is an intended consequence of map design, you know?
Equally Tricksters delusion for that same killer is just deeply unpleasant. Changing the map itself to add a height point for perk value expression of 2 perks, while leaving the map itself painfully hindering for a number of kits, just doesn't feel valid to me.
That said, again, your point is valid. Both of these problems should be fixed in an ideal world. But given I don't see both sides being fixed, then I'd rather neither be fixed. The community should feel that pressure on both sides. -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109610#Comment_4109610
The Thread is not about Balanced Landing and/or All Shaking Thunder, it is about the lack of value on those Maps. There are no spots to use them (aside from Basement Stairs) and no Map should exist where Perks like those cannot be used, especially because they are both not really good (obviously BL compared to other Exhaustion Perks).
Much as, in fairness, I want to agree I find myself in opposition.
Some maps as the dev's explained are supposed to be more or less valid for specific perks and kits. Much like Huntress players just sigh in misery when they get Lery's, verticality on Tricksters Delusion is similar. That's the risk with using perks like BL and AST. Sometimes you'll get a map where they are less useful or outright not useful at all.
Granted I think this shouldn't be the case and maps should be built to make all perks, kits, and killers equally valid, but I don't see that happening unfortunately. -
I dunno. As a Killer I hated this lights out. Couldn't stomach it. Felt like I was in the dark but lanterns guided survs consistently. No scratches to chase, loss of data on base kits. Just felt bad, rather than fun, when surv's were sabo'ing me out after taking that long to get a chase complete. Unless I picked a killer to abuse the situation, which… also, no, that's just the same problem in reverse.
I'd be happy to see Lights Out skipped if it's going to go this route. -
I always go back. I'll drop chase to go back. I'll have other data and go back. I seldom chase the person unhooked, I'm more focused on the unhooker. The reasoning being is that I now know where at least two people are, and primarily I want survivors to develop the understanding that if they unhook I will come for them immediately.
I want them to think twice about moving to unhook, I want them to hesitate and waste time off of gens when they need to unhook. Whatever generates no-gen times is good for me. Granted, I only really developed this habit due to the absolute dearth of survivors who will unhook within 5 seconds of me hooking someone. Survivors seem addicted to that lately, and it's annoyingly disrespectful to do that then cry about me 'tunneling' them (when I went for the unhooker not the hooked).
It's all just psy-ops and nonsense at the end of the day.
If I can't find the unhooker I'll throw a hatchet into the unhooked to break their endurance and deep wound them, that almost always makes another survivor pop out thinking I'm about to tunnel. Even faking a tunnel is likely to draw one out, and now I have a surv who is in deep wound and panicking, and a new target to boot. It's a win/win. -
@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101911#Comment_4101911
Thanks for the info. Seems like it will still be decent for pre-running or 99ing in chase but not soul crushing for non-mobility / m1 killers as it currently can be.
It's not bad, and while I as a Killer main hate SB, I do wish it had come with some more equal-handed nerfing and rebalancing. Lithe will just replace it easily enough. SB is still entirely tenable on pre-runs and break-aways, I agree.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101897#Comment_4101897
I never thought I'd see them nerf SB tbh. Kind of crazy.
Any survivors mains out there able to give a frame of reference for how much distance is lost in that 1 sec being removed? Feels like a bit too much of a nerf but even though I use SB somewhat frequently I have no idea how hard this will hit it.
I'm not a survivor main, but it's only one second lost at 50% haste, so it's 6 meters of travel distance lost per instance of Sprint Burst.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101790#Comment_4101790
Ah yes, when on a small map with basement smack in the middle and the killer uses the extremely popular agitation (sometimes specifically for basement) i just need to never go down in the middle 80% of the map! And even without that, of course! I forgot that it's the survivor's fault for getting hooked in a particular place because I forgot the survivor's choose where the killer hooks them! Especially when the survivor is solo queue and would have no way of knowing which location the basement is! Silly me, simple mistake
Reel in the sarcasm there, Archie. Agitation is common enough, sure, but so are Deliverance and Wicked if you want to nit-pick perk examples. Look I'm not trying to start a fight but if you are playing survivor and don't know where the basement is two minutes into a match then you're still asking for trouble. If you get dragged down from that far away due to agitation you're probably facing basement trapper in which case the elusive and endurance ain't gonna help you anyway. Heck, you should be glad they have agitation, they can't be running 4 slow downs if they have it.
The basement is supposed to be a place you don't want to get hooked. That's why there are killer perks that make it even more dangerous. If you get dragged down there, that sucks, but that's the game. Some maps are more favorable to killer, some are more favorable to survivor, and that's by design.
To re-iterate: The basement is supposed to be a bad place to get hooked. Why would they implement a basekit nerfing to it, when it's meant to be the worst place to get hooked? Your argument kind of proves the intention of the basement is being executed upon. It is supposed to be a worse place to get hooked. Implementing special rules to circumvent that would be circumventing the point of the basement. -
@Skitten56 said:
Sprint Burst is getting nerfed? This is news to me. What are they changing?
Duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Deliverance is one of the strongest perks in higher end/coordinated play. Practically every comp game runs it and is arguably the most impactful perk in those games.
If you don’t hook the Deli player first against a good team, you lose so much pressure when you hook them because you wasted all that time hooking while the other 3 were in no danger. And the Deli player may even use it aggressively with anti-tunnel perks to waste more time, especially in a good coordinated group.
However for the average player, it’s not as good. Still a good perk, but there’s better options for you. You can’t use it as aggressively, you can’t tell your teammate to not waste time heading over, and you have to fight with your team for the unhook.I honestly agree with them the perk could use a nerf, the issue is that this change isn’t the way it should’ve been. It has almost no effect on the people that actually make it powerful, yet less skilled players running it will just be more of a liability.
I agree with this. Deli wasn't nerfed properly to stop it's more abusable features from being abused. Kind of like how they are nerfing Thrill of the hunt rather than nerfing the abuser, Jason. A lot of that going on, babies being thrown out with bathwater in a fashion that won't fix much. Coulrophobia being nerfed to 30% makes it nearly worthless for common builds, but still useful to the people who would abuse it, sluggers. It's a whole mess.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101502#Comment_4101502
Except Killers aren't going to stop tunneling and slugging even if Survivors get nerfed. Why would they stop doing it when it becomes even easier?
Cryptic is right here. I firmly believe slugging and tunneling became what it is because at some point Killers did have it too rough, or survivors were too strong. But regardless of if anyone agrees with that, the fact of the matter is that now that it's part of the common behavior, tunneling and slugging will not end that easily. It's become it's own thing now, and will have to be addressed as it's own thing regardless of it's origin.
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@Arcturus said:
Personally I think that the Anti-Camp and Anti-Tunnel mechanisms should be buffed around basement specifically. The Anti-Camp radius is too small to be effective in basement, and 10s of Elusive is useless coming out of basement when half of it is used to get out.
Then don't get hooked in the worst place in the game to get hooked? I mean no disrespect, but the off-hook protections should be less effective there. The basement is supposed to be scary, supposed to be a place to desperately want to not get hooked in.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101699#Comment_4101699
Sometimes killers have to tunnel in order to get a handle on a game spiralling out of control. That's fine.
What's not necessary is tunneling at 5/4 gens. There's no reason for it and it should be extremely difficult to do. This idea caps at the base 10s for BT which is still absolutely fine. So it doesn't encourage tunneling significantly more than the current system.
I agree, sometimes Killers need to. The problem is that a lot of killers don't particularly care if they need to, and just do it at 5 gens on the walk in. I'm not saying your idea is catastrophically bad or anything, I'm just hesitant with anything that encourages it even a little. Call me paranoid I suppose.
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Pick a goal on walk in. If you play to win DbD is miserable for Killer. That's for it's own crowd. But make your own goal and you'll have more fun. For instance on Huntress I sometimes go for '10m or more' runs, where I'll only hit survs with hatchets at 10m or more. Good practice, fun. Goofy. Or a maybe play a game of 'boo'.
Mix it up with your 'play to win games.' It'll ruin your MMR sadly, but who cares. -
@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101688#Comment_4101688
it's incredibly and uniquely powerful in coordinated 4stack play since it allows an unhook whilst the others remain on gens or reset, this isnt practical in soloq given the amount of communication necessary but the perk is a staple in comp and pubstomp premades for a reason.
it's also arguably problematic as a total solve for endgame, making it impossible for the killer to respond to the perk in the slightest and creating gamestates where the match outcome can be 100% decided long before play ends which is not interesting to be on either side of imo
a longer broken duration doesn't change either of those two things. an actual solution would be for deliverance to forfeit unhook protection, which offers counterplay in comp scenarios where its expected to be used and doesn't make it a free win in endgame whilst still being useful for its actual intended role.
This.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
vigil and SB nerfs were a long time coming
This. Regardless of whether you liked SB or Vigil, they both sat the power station of selection rate for far too long. Alot of perks are due for a fall from grace, on both sides if we're honest.
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@Ohyakno said:
Unhook protections should scale with the number of generators completed. At 5 gens unhooked survivors could have 15s by and elusive, for example. Then it scales down to the normal 10s bt by the end of the game
It's a nice idea, but this would further encourage tunneling.
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I agree with Elan. Counterforce is in a good place. Your complaints are valid, insofar as speed and distances, but in exchange for those downsides this perk can single-handedly counter an entire killer perk build. That seems more than reasonable to me. If you encounter someone with no totems, that's normal balancing counter-action. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.
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He's not as bad as Hag or Trapper, but not as good as Jason or Blight. I know that's a 'duh' statement but not sure what else to say about him. I enjoy playing him on occasion but seldom win with him. He feels too slow in his chase down to compete against gen times, and lacks pressure to secure longer stretches. But I'm also not terribly gifted at Wraith, so I may just be playing him wrong entirely.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101361#Comment_4101361
It does seem so but it's been mentioned plenty of times and they haven't done anything, and it's a simple values changes. That, or they could make the off-hook protections their own status effect (like Bloodlust) instead of two normal ones.
Healing was probably hit the hardest. After that it was mostly haste. Team gen perks like Prove Thyself also are reduced if the other person has something like Deja Vu or Resilience because it also works against teammates' builds.
I was using Dying Light and Thano on Plague but that got nerfed so I switched Dying to Pain Res. Because the game really needed more Pain Res.
I swear it seems as though they are pushing us to Pain Res. Hate that perk so much but increasingly feeling like it's being pushed into requirement territory.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101276#Comment_4101276
Sure, show me how nurse can't use aura perks and is not entirely reliant on map rng for counterplay.
So you do believe she has counter play. That goalpost moved quickly.
Maps are meant to be to the benefit or detriment of the players according to random selection. That is a level of 'chaos' the dev's intend. Some maps are meant to be unfair to you, by intentional design. What you're referring to is intended balancing.
Aura perks I won't comment on - I obviously can't show you that nurse can't use an aura perk, that's a bad faith request. -
I was initially excited and thought it showed promise. But their failure to follow-up, or even communicate transparently about follow-up's, means the DR update just gave us the bill but never gave us the food. We get all the downsides of its sloppy implementation destroying build variety but none of the upsides of it creating a more balanced environment. If it did anything it would create an environment in which less intense scrutiny needs to be applied to designing and releasing things.
At this point, we haven't even sniffed a whiff of DR doing something even neutral for the game. As a result of that I've come to just think of DR as a pre-built excuse for poor balancing and decisions to be justified.
I genuinely think they meant well, but after seeing some choices being made I've come to suspect it's all a shell game. Jason by example has basekit haste bringing him 4.4 to 4.6 that can be indefinitely maintained. Why do that? It would actually be easier to code him as 4.6 and be done with it. I suspect (emphasis on suspect) they did this so Jason cannot meaningfully stack haste. They pre-emptively gave him a mild 'good thing' in order to mitigate the possibility of future stackings of haste via DR application. It's indirect design that gives them plausible deniability if people don't like it (think as in how they handled the cake situation.)
Do I personally care? Not really. But I do find it concerning if that is going to be the primary application of DR in the future, as an extended, double-mobius reach-around version of design. -
@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101268#Comment_4101268
Lol, imagine actually defending nurse in 2026.
Again, with the incendiary and unproductive dismissals. You haven't presented a counter-argument. You joined this thread, so far as I can tell, to just dismiss people rather than actually discuss anything.
As to your question, that has nothing to do with what I said. Not in the slightest. But to answer the question all the same, because forums are for discussions not hopping in and dismissing people out of hand with a holier-than-thou attitude, no that would not be fine with me. You are describing something that is both ridiculously hard to do, as well as having no counter-play. That means there is no interaction there what-so-ever.
If your strawman example is supposed to be a comparison to Nurse, whereas you presented a single perk rather than a kit, there are counter-plays to Nurse. There is interaction with Nurse.
Yes, a very good Nurse is a very difficult thing to face and has a strong presentation on overcoming you, that doesn't mean she suddenly 'has no counter-play.' If you learn and employ her counter-play at a level of skill equal to the skill the Nurse player is presenting, you can win. If your argument is in regards to the best Nurse players, I'd invite you to watch more competitive games to see what play looks like at the level you are referring to.
If your argument is 'being ridiculously hard to do doesn't mean it should be so strong' then I disagree. This would apply to Nurse and Ghoul and so on, as well as high-end SWF play. The top 1% of players of a given thing are not the basis on which a game is balanced. This is why competitive SWF's don't result in perks getting obliterated into obscurity. The top 1% of players are not stable balancing parameters.
So let me ask you the question this way:
If the statistics aren't good enough to prove it to you, what would be sufficient evidence for you? What evidence would you accept as proof that Nurse is not without counter-play? -
@ForTheEntity said:
They announced before Jason dropped that they weren't going to do balancing changes with chapter drops anymore.
Today was 6 weeks after Jason dropped so this was the moment for big balance changes to happen, if we take BHVR at their word.
So we shouldn't expect any balance changes until 12 weeks from today.
Personally I don't expect much to change balance-wise for the rest of 2026.
This.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101167#Comment_4101167
things like this will hopefully become less of an issue when we have an actual MMR system, hopefully lol
I feel like a lot of DBD might be more bareable as a casual player if it does its job?A working MMR system would fix the large bulk of my, and I'm convinced everyone else's, problems with this game.
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@cogsturning said:
Nothing has changed because nothing has changed. The same stuff is driving matches years later. Same perks, same tactics. And any effort to shift that is met with online outrage. So people will keep being mad but they'll also stop any progress that could make change.
And yeah you're definitely not allowed to have fun. If you express that sentiment you are clearly low MMR, bad at the game, throwing, or lying. Misery very much loves company in this community. There are some people who never do anything but whine and the tribalism has been off the charts lately.
Cogs nailed it here. Sad to say it, but it's true.
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@Theokarun said:
Why does it feel like I'm pressured into playing the better killers because dealing with power creep or the returns not being as worth it as the risk and with gen rushing
Because you are.
Yes there's a mindset problem at play here, but it's also a competitive game ( I will die on that hill, the word has a #)$*#$'ing definition ) so playing to win is the general goal.
In short, there are High scaling killers like Jason, Nurse, etc. These killers demolish survivors who do not do X. So survivors do X.
BHVR pays inordinate attention to these stats, particularly newer releases. That means they balance the system based off of new stats, including survivors doing X. Survivors need to do X to stand a chance against the strong killers and that's important to remember.
The problem here is that X is entirely overkill for the lower scaling killers. However, survivors can't simply reselect their perks and kits when they find out they are facing a hag. They walked in armed, ready, and practiced at doing X. So they do X. Hag, as a result, becomes largely worthless in the face of X.
This leads to more killers not playing killers susceptible to X. This leads to BHVR Releasing more killers who are not susceptible to X, as why would you buy a killer that is auto-countered by the standard meta of X. This leads then to BHVR releasing more and more perks that assist and lean into X. The end result is that anything outside the competitive cycle of X is going to feel completely underpowered, creating pressure (intentional pressure mind you) to play killers who handle X well, so that new releases will better sell.
You are, quite literally, being pressured into picking S-tier's.
There is an exception in those who main lower tiers and get cracked at them, but if you ask around most survivors do not enjoy playing against them. A 10k hour Huntress or Slinger is absolutely oppressive and miserable to face off against. Same for Twins, etc etc.
So your end options are :
A) Become so good at a killer that you make Survivors hate playing with you.
B) Play an S-tier killer that scales better against X.
C) Change your mentality and abandon competitive goals.
A is not talked about often for a reason. It's miserable, discourages people getting good at a main, and makes everyone on both sides look bad. B is frowned on because it is an easier form of doing A. C is often discarded due to 'don't play to win' being a wildly unpopular approach.
X can be any number of things in the current push meta. Right now it's just gen times, exhaustion builds, STB, Vigil, all that niche of perks and playstyles.
TL-DR; You feel pressured because you are pressured. You can alleviate that pressure by playing an S-tier, becoming cracked at a lower tier, or just discarding 'winning' or 'losing' from your mindset entirely in DBD and play for fun. -
@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100761#Comment_4100761
Bruh actually thinks nurse is fine. Alright you are done, have a good rest of your life.
Nurse is fine, according to the statistics of BHVR. Her Kill-rate is garbage. People on these forums consistently tell us Nightlight is not useful, and we are to depend on BHVR's official statistics - those statistics list Nurse at a sub-par kill rate.
If you have a problem with Nurse, I assume you mean only the high MMR Nurse Mains. If that's the case, that's a niche of a niche.
Show me the killer that has above a 65% kill rate, and I will agree with you that there are overpowered killers. 60% Kill rate is the goal of the developers, meaning 60% +-5% are categorically not overpowered. Nurse is, statistically, not there. Nor is ghoul. Nor is Jason. This is the same logic used to judge whether perks are categorically overpowered by selection rate and escape rate.
I'm not saying the killers are well-balanced, they aren't, but the acerbic dismissal isn't necessary or constructive to the threads point of conversation. Your opinion isn't more or less valid than anyone else's here. Arriving simply to insult and dismiss others is not conducive to a community conversation. -
@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100637#Comment_4100637
Is that the best you can do? A garbage analogy?
I said it would the best boon. So you think all boons are garbage then?
Perks, especially survivor perks, should be balanced. There shouldn't be one perk that's on all the time attached to a mobile source (a survivor) that buffs almost all of the exhausting perks and many more perks besides that and debuffs many killer perks and killer powers. All for the cost of a single survivor perk slot when a team of survivors can bring 16 perks.
Boon: Vigil would still be powerful without needing to be 200% (your only suggestion). Surely you can actually come up with an argument as to why it'd be "so awful it's essentially gone", preferably in a reply that takes more than two sentences.
Best not to engage with some folk, Entity. Some people are just abrasive and very seldom use anything but presumptuous no faith arguments.
@Mr_K said:
Fireup?
Fireup has gen completion requirements. If you remove those from Fireup, or add gen completion conditions to Vigil, I'd say we're be on the same page.
@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100575#Comment_4100575
So passive aggressive.
It'd be more balanced than the current Vigil we have now. At least survivors would have to do more than equip Sprint Burst and Vigil to be able to pre-run off their gen as soon as they spot the killer or hear the terror radius and repeat the cycle every 30 seconds while the killer targets their teammates.
Concurred. I regularly just mark anyone I see with SB as 'to be ignored' and then go after their teammates. Vigil just contributes to furthering the incentive to tunnel whoever doesn't have it.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100467#Comment_4100467
Fair enough lmaoooo
I am just genuinley curious to know how powerful it is in the worst case scenarios? If that makes sense, coz as you can see I'm not really experiencing it on my end.I think the danger of Vigil is only represented well when two conditions are met:
A) Killer is using a status effect build or basekit
B) Your team is making use of the AOE Effect and/or running exhaustion alongside.
If you face, say, a huntress with no status effects then you're not gonna get much value. Which, I think, is part of the problem. Vigil existing makes killers less likely to run status effect builds. So it become difficult to track and compare rather quickly, to your point.
