NeverSolus
NeverSolus
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
Killers already have something that's kind of worse than Vigil and you might not like to hear it:
Lightborn, I know it's a waste of a perk slot but it outright denies the other side any blinding item or perk value. Vigil on the other hand doesn't deny debuffs entirely, just makes them less effective.
Could Argue Enduring is vigil like also, on pallet stuns. One of my fav perks coz I love punishing same side pallet stuns.
It's also why I love vigil, I hate crowd control in games of any kind. plus it's the closest thing we have to a debuff cleanser.
I've used the perk even when it was 30 percent, but if it goes back to that the stacking needs to come back IMO, it's been one of my most used perks since forever coz of the support style component:https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DXZTGAB9FATM/image.png
it's generally at 40ish percent escape rate (where the game is aimed to be balanced at), my main build I use is in the top 4 slots, given this also includes pre-buff, I've used it for years.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N803PE58BT8J/image.png
in comparison my last 30 days which was mainly event queue is sat at one of the lower percentages of the perks I've used, hyperfocus stake out at the top.
I would very much like to see some actual stats regarding vigil, coz balancing off of vibes for a perk that's been in the game for like 8ish years is kind of wild lol ngl. You all didn't complain about it back then, why we all complaining about it now?To be fair: I was complaining about it then, too. 😂
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It's not a terrible idea, but it would require a great deal of constant balance from BHVR, which I don't have faith they can do. They're simply too bogged down to be keeping up with such a system, and it would further complicate balance. By that last part I mean that perk X may be balanced in light of four perks going into a match. But when you can potentially match perk X with perks Y, Z, N, M, and O, it may start to show a synergy progression that unbalances it.
Has potential, just don't have a whole lot of belief they could pull it off. -
@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100296#Comment_4100296
Making it a boon would not be a buff. It would have to be set up, it would have a fixed location and it could be snuffed. The lack of mobility would make up for the extra range. I don't think it stacking with other boons would be an issue, unless you'd care to address specific examples.
Also I think the lingering effect should be lessened (boons linger for 2/3/4 seconds if at all) or eliminated entirely. 15 seconds is an eternity when I applied to cooldowns/status effects.
Sure, I can specify.
It would be a buff because boons hold a range of 24m static, whereas Vigil holds 16. That's a 50% buff in range from the current Vigil. Vigil does not need a 50% buff, but I am not ignorant to the 'it is static now' nature. However, Vigil is most useful when it can hit multiple survivors. If you coordinate a team and arrange the boon appropriately, you can assure that anyone working in a specified area will gain the benefits. That's a considerable buff. It's harder for teams to coordinate and update people on their present location within 16 meters than it is to plop down a totem.
I don't personally care all that much if totems can be snuffed, as killers (short of sacing a perk on shattered hope) have no way to permanently shut it down. It can just be replaced over and over again ad nauseum - and given how strong vigil is, it's worth it to do so.
As to the boon interactions, the ones that particularly gruff me are circle of healing (I know I can't believe I'm saying it either) and Shadow step, and dark theory. You could establish an entire 24m radius bubble of the map under which survivors have secured stealth, haste, faster status and exhaustion recovery, and heal faster if tagged. This makes the boon a required snuff if the Killer wishes to engage. Otherwise, you tag someone, they take injury bonus and disappear with no aura read or scratch marks, get healed faster by their team, whilst the killer is likely being distracted.
Vigil being a boon would just be a mistake, until they address boons versus totems. The idea of Killers not being able to flat out break totems the same way survivors can really makes the asymm balance of that particular mechanic difficult to deal with. -
Agreed with OP.
As to what 100P said, exactly. Same reason I hate 2v8. Tired of people acting like events don't effect the normal game just to act smug and dismissive towards peoples opinions. -
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100262#Comment_4100262
Devs said it was a balancing nightmare because they'd always have to think if it was balanced with tinkerer and without. I'd imagine they'd think the same thing here. Is Freddy's snares balanced both without the perk and with it?
I can't imagine they did. With Vigil freddy's snares are damn near non-existent.
Absolutely not a boon on the surv side. That would enhance the range, and allow it to stack with other boons. It's silly to think of buffing vigil that way, whilst also saying 'we don't need a killer version.'@Brimp said:
Honestly either just nerf vigil to not affect exhausted or nerf it down to 30% faster recovery. Its biggest problem is it enhances the strongest set of perks in the game so much while also affecting stuff like anti-heal, exposed, hindered, oblivious and blindness in an AOE for teammates as well. It's just TOO loaded of a perk to exist in its current state. The nerf they gave it to remove stacking was the least they could have done to the perk after they buffed its effectiveness by 220% which is insane to think about it like that.
Oh yeah make it unable to affect hindered from killer powers like Clown and Freddy since we're going the route of adding "basic" and "special" breaks for perk activation requirements.I'd be good with that. It's just too much now and it hitting basekit anything shouldn't happen. Either take exhaustion off of it or nuke it down a bit.
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@GroovieAshes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100263#Comment_4100263
I agree that the data can be useful when comparing Killers relative Power. The Killers sitting at High 50% in NightLight data are probably the same Killers that are sitting at 60%+ in BHVR data.
The OP seems to think that Killers need further buffs because the NightLight data is all below 60%. The problem is this is a small subgroup of players and doesn't reflect the larger casual experince.
Agreed, it doesn't reflect the larger experience. But without stats on that experience, I find it hard not to side with OP. Mind you, I don't particularly like the OP's argument here but without more stable reporting to scrub I don't know how to hold a position against it. It becomes my 'feels' versus their 'feels' and I despise operating on that methodology.
If we had some reason to believe that what BHVR told us was raw data and not altered, I would be more inclined to disagree with OP. -
@100PercentBPMain said:
we got Chucky and Ken Kaneki I refuse to listen to anybody who says Jurassic Park can't be done
He has this one right. We got #)*%*#%'n Ghoul. We get anime content. We got Iron Maiden Cross overs, Alice in Wonderland References, and frick'n Dracula. Raptor is not out of the question. Would probably be a power crept Twins leap, with some kind of undetectable mobility sprint.
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Doctor, Pig, Trapper, Hag, Twins (rework to put their power in not slugging), Nemesis, Ghostface.
If they touch my Huntress with a Trickster style 'rework' I'll cry. -
@100PercentBPMain said:
Legions a fine killer; I argue people simply didnt play them when they were Kassadin tier.
Only buff I'd give them is let them see blood pools.
Kassadin tier. Thanks. Now I want to see a Teemo killer.
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Bring it. I already live in a dystopia, at least this would make it an interesting one.
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I don't really buy the 'BHVR has better data' argument. They've been asked, repeatedly ad nauseum, to share their data transparently but refuse to. As @cogsturning pointed out, we also don't know how they are adjusting the values and what they consider 'valid' or 'invalid' data.
Nightlight is, as a result, the best data metric we have. Flawless it is not, but it is far better than the mythical data that may or may not exist and may or may not be skewed due to how it is handled. I'll take flawed data over the possibility of data any day: no god of gaps in this house thank you very much. -
@LordGlint said:
You'd have a perk that directly effects killer abilities like Clown Bottles, which isn't something the devs want. This would be a similar case to old tinkerer.
Glint has a point here. I mean I see nothing wrong with base kit adjustments from perks since diminishing returns from perks interact with basekit, but the dev perspective clearly is wanting to avoid this sort of behavior.
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@Doctor_Xenomorph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100249#Comment_4100249
im not some stinking, lousy, cog sniffing, bolt chugging, bolt brained, wire-neck, byte huffing, waferheaded, tin skin, grease cricket, circuit loving, code skull, spring neck, low volt, water wasting, property value waster, soulless, chromy, spark donkey clanker AI D:
Language.
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I agree entirely with the premise of OP's statement here. Though the problem I see is, as Massquwatt pointed out above, mobility is king in the current meta. It provides spread pressure, helps to counter hold w builds, and allows faster patrol and location of survivors.
My concern at this point is less that all future killers will have mobility of this nature: quite the opposite actually.
Imagine BHVR releases Art the Clown tomorrow for some magical nonsense reasons suitable to argument.
In order for Art to be competitive enough to be worth people buying (the entire point of an IP release), he is going to have to be of comparable power to the highest pick-rate killers on the boards. Let's say Jason, Ghoul, Nurse, Dracula, and Blight are all topping the board that week. Now, BHVR (in this example) says 'We can't just keep giving them all mobility, let's do something different.' THIS is where the problem kicks in.
What could you give Art the Clown that would level him out in comparable power to Jason, Ghoul, etc, without giving him mobility? Given how incredibly powerful mobility is, that means if you don't give him mobility you have to give him something incredibly powerful. You have to deliberately power-creep your own meta. This would, in this example, result in Art getting something like basekit exposed whenever he has bloodlust, or something of that nature.
The problem to me isn't the mobility, so much as recognizing that eventually they will have to break away from the constant mobility releases and the moment they do they are going to have to do some seriously questionable )#*%$ in order to keep the killer competitive with the mobility ones, due to the sheer power of mobility. -
Wouldn't work, sadly. I like the idea, but the reason Vigil is so strong is that it's AOE that can be built around via exhaustion builds. Killers would need more perks that inflict exhausted than they have now in order to make as much use of an anti-vigil. I'd probably still run it on and off, but it would be inherently weaker on killers.
Nothing wrong with it balance wise. Just assign it the same value as Vigil at increased 66% tick-rate. -
I'm just barely good enough that I can do this on Huntress. I can tell I'm going to win out when I can consistently get a hook by the time they are unhooking. Hook A. Go find B, down B, hook B. Return to hook A, Nurses calling will show me the reset. Repeat.
It's how I gauge if the match is going well for me or not. If I can't hook one by the time they unhook another, either they are terrible or I am. -
@Doctor_Xenomorph said:
POV: You load into a match and find a survivor quickly and get a quick down and they immediately DC - is it *really tunnelling to rush to kill them since they chose to quit.
No. If a person bots out I almost consider it doing the survivors a kindness to immediately tunnel it out.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099725#Comment_4099725
That's not how it works at all, Vigil makes it tick 66 percent faster, it's not literally 66 percent of the duration.
You can test it out with Sprint Burst it's about 23s, which is not 66 percent of 40s:- Rate increase: +66 % Recovery rate
- Calculation:
40 seconds / (1 + 0.66) = 40 seconds / 1.66 ≈ 24 seconds
- Calculation:
- Time reduction: -40 % Effect duration
- Calculation:
40 seconds * (1 - 0.4) = 40 seconds * 0.6 ≈ 24 seconds
- Calculation:
It reduces debuffs by approximately 40 percent
When the description got updated players have been complaining like it got buffed to 66 percent, when it was just changed to more accurately reflect what it does.
Given it doesn't stack anymore, the perk is fine, even on nightlight its at a 40 percent escape rate which is well within BHVR's balance range, unless their official stats reflect differently there is literally 0 reason to nerf this perk lolWoo, now that's confusing. If that's how that perk works, they definitely need to address terminology in the future.
- Rate increase: +66 % Recovery rate
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If you let a killer down you right under the hook like that, you failed to bgin with. It's part of your skill expression as a survivor to not die in the single most convenient spot for a killer to pick you up. Even in that scenario latency, among other things come into play making it still quite a risky play.
This is a non-issue. -
I think the bulk of the issue is how people play him. Totem builds, etc etc. He has stupid add-ons, and is good for tunneling.
That being said I don't find his balancing to be an issue, I find his application an issue. Countering him is easy enough - spread four survs, hit gens. He enters OE, you don't stop. Burn those damn gens down while someone loops him. Repeat. Not so different from other killers.
The problem is that this forces Survs to play a specific way. They can't goof off, they can't play for fun, they can't run around for pallet/flash saves. Everyone has to commit to burning the gens down ASAP, and if they aren't good at looping they are doomed. This is just an amplified version of normal play at a low comp level, however not everyone wants to play that sweaty. Jason forces Survs to play sweaty, as his kit provides him with a level expression across the board. No real weakness. He's walking power creep.
He has counter play, but has no weakness, and that's an issue.
If that were all there was to him I'd argue with people about him not being OP. But his add-ons, and the way his kit can interact with some perk builds, as well as his application to tunneling, is an issue. It's just not an issue I know how to meaningfully fix. Tunneling is an issue period and has not been fixed. More and more killers being released are going to be better tunnellers, as BHVR needs to sell them and that's what sells. His add-ons aren't awful but badge needs to burn, it's silly on an A-tier killer to have a free regression mechanic.
Overall I think the issue with Jason boils down to the fact that he forces people to play as if it's a sweaty game one way or another. There's an us vs. them argument hiding in there given SWF's and the absolute vitriol with which people don't want to allow pre-made indicators in lobby, but the end result is just forced sweat. Which is a legitimate complaint on both sides.
I just don't see the current design for things going in any direction but this one, increasingly, as time goes on. So me complaining about it seems like a moot point. -
@Skitten56 said:
Locker thing is the biggest change I'd make. Survivors hate it when she zones them at loops but if they constantly remove birds the moment them get them from snipes, then she has no choice but to use them at loops. Getting rid of the ability to remove swarms from lockers or at least introduce a downside to it would be the best change for both sides.
I would love to see BHVR make it so the birds stay outside the locker for 8 seconds and reswarm the survivor if they leave beforehand. It takes 8 seconds to remove birds normally so I feel this is fair. Survivors would be protected from damaging shots in the locker still while the swarm waits outside, so they can safely remove birds at range. However, now they would have to spend some of their time to do it at least so it would provide Artist with some slowdown. And if they don't go in the lockers to keep moving while removing swarms, then Artist can now try for snipes.
First part of this is it, for me. It's one of those nasty consequences. Survivors hate X, rightfully, but X only occurs because Survivors or BHVR initiate Y. Crows on loops happens because locker instant repels them, killers run mass regress and lockout on gens because survs run gen speeds, killers slug (not all of them mind you) when survs sabo and boil-over bully.
It's all X creating Y, and everyone acts as if Y is the issue. It's not. X should be addressed first and foremost before you then re-tweak Y accordingly.
Artist using birds on loops is obnoxious, but when you find survs who insta-repel them via locker there's just no other purpose for those charges. Might as well ruin someones loop with them. -
@sp1nu_ said:
The First - his power is still far too lenient and unrewarding/uninteractive. killer power concept is a failure to me. I don't recall a game (maybe 1) where the entire lobby sticked around for the entire game (dc-ing after down or at start of the match) a rework or nerf is necessary in my honest opinion.
- make his power range attack shorter, make him slower, punish more for missing to reduce spamming i.e. spraying and praying. shorten clocks again, 10 seconds is not enough (in respect to the previous nerf)
Jason - he is overtuned, maneuverability is too easy and free in power, built in mori is too quick leaving little to no downtime for survivors to recuperate and plan saves/heals etc. zoning with spear ability is pretty much a joke, tunnelling is far too easy, on top of the mori. The time between hooking a survivor is vital for survivor gameplay and this removes an opportunity to reorganise.
- he doesn't need killer instinct upon teleporting. The Unknown doesn't get it, Springtrap doesn't get it, Onryo doesn't get it, so why does he? an arguably far stronger killer than the lot of them? killer instinct is feels lazy and unfair to me, it takes away the element of stealth and using gameplay knowledge to find a survivor yourself in return, feeling unrewarding on killer and unfair on survivor, except on certain killers where it feels right e.g. The Legion, The Unknown upon interrupting a dispel etc.
*you should stop adding built in moris to killer powers as this incentives tunnelling, or at least save the built in moris for weaker killers (that need it) and not strong killers who can demolish teams with ease (Jason + The First.
Dracula is still overturned too if i'm being honest.
The Nurse should suffer blindness when blinking, and remove her lunge extend after blinking add on for good.
Killer hitbox blocking pallet drops and pallet saves ever since you messed with collision. You can't save from both sides of the pallet because the hitbox fully just blocks it, same as when a killer walks through a pallet, you sometimes are unable to drop it because the killers hitbox removes the prompt, which in return feels tacky and unfair, a little bulky and clunky, compared to previously where you could drop the pallet as long as you don't move before dropping it after receiving the prompt.
Unemployed build is far too oppressive (Hex: Thrill, Ruin, Undying, Penti etc) you should make totem progress permanent and/or nerf the numbers of thrill. this build is annihilating pubs lately and on top of how easy tunnelling is with someone of the stronger killers - not a very enjoyable experience, and not a very rewarding experience on the killer side.
Lack of EU servers. 100ms+ killers still run rampant on EU servers. Ping is very important for DBD macro/micro gameplay. High ping not only removes the opportunity for micro gameplay upon knowing when do use certain movements etc. - it sucks the fun straight out of the match. High ping needs to be looked at extensively and something needs to be done. Removing the killer having ping priority seems valid for a start.
Add on clutter and overall inventory clutter is still very much a thing. there's probably 2/3 overall useful add ons on survivor and killer add ons out of each add on available per killer/item. Even more so now that styptics and syringes are borderline useless (as iri and ultra rare add ons) :/ Also fog vials are still a flop, and hinder your team more than they help. I got blinded by a fog vial from my teammate and ran into the killer and died. That item is another example of useless inventory clutter because they add nothing to gameplay other than being annoying - for both survivors around and the killer.
That is all for now I think.
Oh, licensed collaborations - Please put more effort into finding collaborations that don't endorse generative AI. (Ice Nine Kills might've been the biggest flop ever, and I love metal, but their use of Gen AI, left a sour taste in everyone's mouth… and their music was cringe. Would've been a good licence to collab with if they didn't respond to people with AI memes and their music was actually good. Sorry not sorry.
Thanks.
The First is fine. I don't even play Henry as I find his kit meh, but he's fine. He's one of the more engaging killers you can encounter. If you slow him further, he'll enter D tier rather quickly. Speed and mobility is the primary factor on killer play-rates from what the numbers tell us. Slow him further and no adjustments will be necessary as it's already a funeral. Further nerfing M2 is just… silly. He doesn't even one hit injure with it but has to land charges.
Jason could use add-on adjustments, namely with badge. I don't care about the Mori time. Go ahead and double or triple the mori time length - in my experience survivors don't use that time to do anything but run over and co-star in the Mori anyway. His spear isn't so much an issue, but I would like to see the ability to twitch shot with it added in, in exchange for less reload points. KI is lazy anyway so do as you please there, so long as the killer has something else in the kit that serves similar purpose. Or, you know, crouch. Or spread four and burn gens down while he goobers. He's not that bad, and if you think he is I can't wait to see your response to angel.
Nurse blindness? I… What? Sure. Sure, go ahead. Nurses would just stop running aura (which the better nurses don't anyway) and run full regression. This feels like shooting yourself in the foot, but go off I guess.
Dracula needs a nerf now? I mean… sure? I don't agree at all on this one. Removing scent orbs by example would make wolf form largely useless save for pounce, which has its own downsides. Personally if they removed scent orbs I'd just run haste on him and never go wolf - there would be no point in locking myself out of hellfire for a high collision slop dash with no haste.
How in the world are you lighting up the First, Jason, Nurse, and Dracula, but skipped right over Ghoul? I'm so confused. Do we really think Dracula is more overpowered than the bloody ghoul, now?
Thrill is… ugh. Thrill is a problem, but not because Thrill itself is a problem. Thrill is a problem in the same way Hyperfocus is a problem. It's not a problem on its own, it's a problem because of how it exists in tandem with other things. Thrill itself is necessary as totems are horrendously weak perks given their monolithic downsides - but it becomes problematic with killers like Jason or Trapper (yeah I said it, I trap totems and its hilarious but messed up.) This is less a problem with Thrill, and honestly not even a problem with the killers, but more a synergy problem that hasn't been addressed due to how sloppily balancing has been handled until now. Handle the balancing of kits and perks, and you'd see thrill presenting less of an issue overall I think.
EU servers, yeah. Need more. Need more servers all around.
Collabs barring AI… uh, that's… incredibly ironic for reasons I won't say because it can get you hammered if you do say it. But you do you boo. -
Reduce charges of what? What happens if there is no dull totem available to 'curse' the survivor? Why would this reduce skill check zones, shouldn't it be making them larger? Why would someone run a totem that curses them, makes them oblivious, but lets them see a killer for 2s at a time when they scare a crow?
How are these improvements? I don't think I am understanding. -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099820#Comment_4099820
Great argument, but I would expect exactly this from someone who makes up BS of grinding for a challenge they know which will not grant much reward. Seriously, you are only complaining for the sake of complaining. If there would be no Community Challenge, you would have played the same amount of games.
Your point is actually the point, I think. If there was no community challenge, people would have not acted differently. So then when BHVR institutes a Community Challenge, for the community to come together for a goal, it's somewhat expected the result will be more than a single 2k match result in BP. The problem isn't that the reward sucks, so much as what the reward sucking implies, which runs along the lines of: "If our community can align on a task and be excited together, that would be worth Y to us, as the devs!"
Y, in this case, was 20k. It's kind of an insult, and I don't mean that in the 'This is an outrage, Mongo is appalled!' kind of way. I mean it literally. This comes across as a direct insult. -
@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099757#Comment_4099757
If the survivor hits the skill check, there is of course no regression. However it is the same size as Overcharge or Oppression, so the smallest possible.
He can stay in power and go between the gens at 8m/s, kicking them all without stopping, and either jumpscaring survivors off the gens or getting a 20% regression from the missed skill check. Really there are no downsides.
Eruption you need to manually kick and then down someone. Pop you need to hook and manually kick.
That's what I'm saying, my man, that is the downside. Badge still hits regression limit. He can't just stay in power moving at 8m/s moving between gens nonstop, or he'll hit regression very quickly and loses all ability to regress the generators with a kick or otherwise. It's just a sub-par add-on, and should just be removed.
I'm all for removing it, but not because I think it's OP. Because I think it's a worthless gimmick that people use as a crutch and get less than optimal regression out of as a result. Yes, if the survivor hits the check there's no regression, but that doesn't matter if 4 survs are on 4 gens. He finds one that doesn't blow up and now knows where a surv is. He should engage them, then likely kick it. Moving gen to gen is, at best, going to push to regression limit if they just hop off the gen and let it take the non 20% regress hit. -
@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099726#Comment_4099726
the skill check doesn’t activate the gen kick limit since the generator wasn’t regressed by 2.5% or more from the actual killer. and in general, i’m 99% sure skill checks completely bypass the gen kick limit.
The Deputy badge does trigger regression limit either way. If jason badges a generator eight times, that's it, he's locked out of further regression on that generator. The badge doesn't have a substantial regression amount, meaning this is actually a bad add-on for most Jason's to use if the survs are smart enough to force the gen out.
The skill check is irrelevant. He'll either get 20% + Regression time, or just regression time.
That's my point. The add-on is kind of weak when you could have popped or eruptioned the gen instead. You get less immediately regression on it.
Though, I do still feel badge is a bit garbage as a concept and should be reworked/nerfed. -
This has to be a joke, right?
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
So I just read that if the survivor misses the special skill check, the generator will REGRESS 20% 🤯
Driver's License is similar but that requires being stalked, and Ghost Face can be broken out of power.
Even with the smaller radius, it's crazy. And this is just the secondary effect.
It's not that bad considering. If you make the skill check, it's still one regression state closer to regression lock-out on the generator. It's strong though, and I'd prefer it had been nerfed via rework entirely.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099689#Comment_4099689
Hyperfocus Steak Out has already been nerfed with Diminishing Returns.
Vigil is powerful but has a limited range. It also changes it up when the killer expects a certain time or strength of a debuff, but Vigil means they have to adapt on the fly. There have been so many nerfs to survivor, especially the syringe and styptics. I'm sure the strong killer perks and powers have been developed with Vigil in mind, too.
1 - Hyperfocus/Stake-out is not effected by diminishing returns.
2 - The range is the bonus, not the issue. It's the cherry on top. It having range at all is absurd.
3 - The Killer perks have not been designed with Vigil in mind in any way I can see.
I'll expound upon 3.
[Friends 'Til the End] is a 20 second Exposed. This is reduced to just under 7 seconds for vigil. 20 Seconds is not often enough time to track down a surv inflicted. 7 is right out.
[Haunted Grounds] inflicts 60 seconds of exposed on all survivors, once in a match, upon being broken. With vigil this is reduced to 20. A perk being balanced to inflict 20 seconds of exposed a single time in an entire match is flatly and dramatically underpowered.
[Hubris] inflicts 20 seconds of exposed on a pallet stun. This is reduced to 7 with Vigil. The pallet stun lasts 3 seconds, just under. Now assuming the killer breaks the pallet they have 2 seconds left to chase you with Exposed. You are going to lose this by the time they move. Equally, if they don't break it, you can just vault game it. Hubris is functionally 100% countered by Vigil.
[Make Your Choice] inflicts 60 seconds exposed, requiring the killer be 32 meters away. With Vigil this is reduced to 20 seconds. A standard 4.6 killer covers 32 meters in roughly 7 seconds. However the survivor covered another 28 meters running in this case. By the time the killer catches up vigil will cycle Exposed. They quite literally only need to hold w.
This is just the Exposed examples mind you. The examples for Hindered and Mangled are more damning still.
[Forced Hesitation] inflicts Hindered at 20% for 10 seconds, then enters cooldown for 30 seconds. Vigil reduces the Hindered to 3.33 seconds. This effects all survivors within 16 meters as does vigil, mind you.
I say the perks and add-ons aren't balances for this because I cannot see a way in which you balance 66% off of a given status effect as a potentiality, without overpowering these effects on those who do not use Vigil. The problem isn't that Vigil is strong, Survivors should have strong perks. The problem is that it's cripplingly strong, boosts survivor builds, shuts down killer perks and some base kit abilities, and does so in an AOE. I cannot see them having balanced killer perks around the possibility that the killer would only get 33% of the perk value. That would require sizable buffs to durations, which I fear is what we will see if Vigil isn't nerfed. -
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099686#Comment_4099686
On principle I don't think people should be able to get a competitive advantage from purchasing a £15 skin over people who don't necessarily have the disposable income to chuck £15 on a skin in a paid-for game especially during a time where everyone is being squeezed for money from all angles but maybe that's too radical of a thought for the dbd forums
I ain't gonna shout you down, fear not. I'm not advocating for P2W, I'm just confused by prioritization of some folks is all.
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It's a no brain perk that is a catch-all, limiting a huge amount of perk and killer expression. It's just outright unhealthy for the game. It doesn't just reduce effect timers on almost every effect in the game including survivor triggered ones, it also benefits your teammates. That's an absurd perk.
There needs to be rebalancing all around. Vigil needs to eat a massive nerf in the same way that hyperfocus/stake-out need a massive nerf. Unfortunately as you see in this very thread people aren't willing to see X side nerfed until Y side is nerfed, which continues this nonsensical us vs. them version of balancing. If X is nerfed, Y will respond with N, which means X feels justified in M. This creates a new balance nightmare before Y ever even gets nerfed. The crowds will cry and beseech it and whine endlessly, regardless of which side we're talking about.
The entirety of the current balance is going to need to be nuked from orbit and rebuilt, at least initially, in total ignorance of both survivor and killer feedback. Then, after the readjustments are done, the feedback can be addressed.
Survivors will cry out over any surv nerf and killer buff and think they are right.
Killers will cry out over any killer nerf and surv buff and think they are right.
Neither will stop their whining long enough to allow a more holistic across-the-board readjustment to occur. You can see examples of that here in this very thread. It's this inherent and ongoing vitriolic tribalism that keeps us locked into the current stagnation. -
Kind of baffled by this. Who cares? She's not S tier. Even if she didn't have sound queue's she'd be a B-tier, A-tier on a high end player. Is this really where we're focusing our ire? That a lower tier killer got a benefit from a skin?
I mean don't get me wrong I get it, pay to win is always annoying, but this feels like a meh complaint. Does this skin somehow put her on par with Ghoul, or nurse? Hell does it even put her on par with dracula? I don't think it does. She continues to only be a problem on skilled huntress players, regardless of the sound queues.
Be upset if it pleases you of course, just not sure I understand how this is a priority over things like perk balancing, old killer reworks, etc. But the more you shout about it the more likely they are to address this issue rather than the other ones. -
The First doesn't instant injury like Huntress does, and Trickster rapid fires to achieve a stack payout. The First is easier to dodge, and requires landing multiple M2's before injury states can be inflicted. If they increased the cooldown on his M2 significantly he'd be dead in the water without correlating buffs to other parts of his M2 kitting.
You'd end up creating something like a larger AOE M2 that is harder to dodge, or reducing his telegraph to the point of assured hits. The current adjustment of the killer is sufficient to the purpose. -
If they walk up to you at the dance, one would assume they are there to dance.
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@Doctor_Xenomorph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096755#Comment_4096755
I mean it is kind of sad that most killers either need to use relatively "broken killers" to have a chance - or just lose more often than not.
Only way I can play my main, Huntress, is by going in deliberately to not win and instead to just do trickshots and see what fun I can have with her that way. Modern meta makes winning with her too stressful.
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@ba_tetsuo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096499#Comment_4096499
Not quite. Bubba saw for sure doesn't ignore it.
True. I haven't had problems just sawing through it on bubba though, so I suppose I didn't note it mentally as a result.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096326#Comment_4096326
Tell me, is it fair for Huntress to even exist when Jason exists? Do you know how many Huntresses I've seen since Jason release? None.
I still play Huntress a great deal as my main but… I admit, she's far less tempting when Jason exists as something that is just objectively better. That and the aura changes on gens have made orbitals a lot harder. Indirectly nerfed her.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096393#Comment_4096393
Mhh I had to google because Final fantasy XIII is the first FF i'm playing. From her looks she is okay, it's not really my cup of tea that she kinda looks like a secretary tho. I obviously can't say anything to her character xD
If I just google I would say out of the box that terra, lucrecia and aerith are really pretty. My favorite of them would probably be terra, then lucrecia and then aerith :D xD
My bad, I thought you said VIII. Whoops!
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@Knightofzer0 said:
all ranged projectiles ignore it
More than this, all M2's that I'm aware of ignore it. Including Knight's ghosts. It's 'invulnerability from M1' in the same way Exposed is a one-hit for M1's.
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@AgnyLeo said:
Many of us can agree that Trapper needs some kind of buffs, right?
I feel like one simple way would be to AT LEAST give him all his traps at the start.
My other ideas would be that he could maybe also spawn with the rest of the traps being open already, up his movement and/or give him the same temporary haste after someone gets caught in the trap instead.
I would be interested in hearing more ideas!Trapper needs so much. Starting with all of his traps and him having basekit trap auto-reset would be my first steps. There's simply no fun in walking around the map collecting and then reseting traps all day long - particularly not when the counter to him is to just send someone to immediately disarm them, leaving you playing trap reset simulator. Trapper can be entirely unfun for that reason along, much as Legion being a mend-simulator is unfun for Survivors.
Personally I'd also address the AOE on this traps. The example I'd use is that his traps can be run around in a pallet junction by survivors, but not by Trapper due to his larger collision. I have nothing against skill expression but for how time consuming his traps can be there's absolutely no reason he should be so easily countered in this particular sense.
Seeing a haste on trap trigger could be nice, but moreover I think I'd like to see traps become invisible to survivors who are running. Walking and crouching still leaves them visible, but full running survs should be unable to see them. Or Exhausted survs, perhaps. Something to reflect the effort of having active attention on the traps rather than on Trapper. Maybe instead, his traps being invisible to people in his TR? I'm unsure.
But HexSlugged is correct. -
@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/469565/what-other-games-are-you-playing
Currently the gothic 1 remake and final fantasy XIII because I never played a final fantasy in my live :D
Quistis is Bae.
Rock and Stone!
I've been playing some Burglin Gnomes with friends. Outside of that? I've been playing Witchfire, Dead as Disco, and when I feel the urge to sit down and listen to my audiobook while I strain my brain I load up Satisfactory. -
@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096220#Comment_4096220
the blink and dash get to attack. and again this wouldnt make them bad it would just nerf them from s tier to low a tier. they are the strongest killers in the game and and the blink and dash are better then dredges teliport sense you have a more control where you are going can see everyone and can attack which dredge cant. just nerf these 2 so other killers can be buffed
Unless the cooldown was short, which would make the problem worse, they would hit D-tier quickly. 5 Seconds might land them in C tier, but would open up new issues.
Buffing the lower tier killers is not dependent on nerfing the S-tiers. Nurse does need to be addressed, but putting her on a CD wouldn't 'fix' her, it would either destroy her or overpower her. Blight was already significantly nerfed and is already much less of an issue. Ghoul is still an issue of his own, but he's another matter.
A killer with an ability to blink up to 20 meters and attack once per 10 seconds, would be useless. That's not enough to down anyone, and it's almost enough time for a surv to heal. Her movement is 3.85 m/s, which is to say her movement is lower than Survivor movement. With 10 second intervals, she would be instantly worthless as a result. Survivors could easily destroy her.
If you move the cooldown to 5 seconds, it may be tennable, but now you can't run her out of charges either. Any lower and she becomes too strong.
Furthermore, her blink is actually mechanically kitted for being used multiple times in a row. What you're talking about is not a nerf, what you're talking about is literally changing how her ability works at base. It's not as simple as 'add a cooldown', she would need to be rebuilt. Chain-blinking is hard-coded into what she is. -
@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096215#Comment_4096215
im not tho im suggesting they would be weaker but no d teir also dredge isnt d teir bes low b tier
I know Dredge isn't —
My man. My brother in christ. Dredge's kit encompasses more than just the CD of his ability. His ability is also a map wide teleport, with an insta kill on condition. Additionally he has nightfall.
Nurse, just blinks. Blight, just dashes. That's it. There is no secondary anything. Neither of them are map wide teleports. This is apples or oranges. Just because Dredge can have a cooldown and be B-tier does not mean that all killers can have cooldowns and be a B-tier. That's not how that works.
Huntress with a 10 second cooldown would be F-tier, immediately. -
@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096198#Comment_4096198
or we could just not buff them sense they are the 2 strongest killers by a large margin and billy a killer that needs significantly more skill to use could be the best killer in the game and hes still free so the argument for nurse needing to be the best falls away
That's… That's the point, my man. If they implemented the nerf you are suggesting they would be D-tier over night. A nurse that can only blink once and then enters a cooldown of any meaningful length is useless. Blight's ability is similar. The abilities are built to be used rapid times in succession. That's why they have charges.
Nurse doesn't need to be the best, I'm not arguing that. No one in this thread (which is just us) is arguing that.
Simply nerfing two killers into being beyond worthless isn't going to help anything. They'd have to be rebalanced to handle the change. -
@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096192#Comment_4096192
Dredge does use charges tho when he teliports to lockers but has a single cooldown and im saying nurse and blight should work the same when they recharge so blight injecting himself and nurse being out of breath they should have one coold down no matter if they used one charge or all charges just like dredge.
You realize if that was done they would both have to be buffed significantly to keep them viable, right?
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That would quite literally not work within the structure of their power or kit. Dredge isn't meant to use charges of his ability, Nurse and Blight are.
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I'm not sure I understand BHVR's perspective on this. It's all coming across as dismissive, cavalier, and a bit disrespectfully underhanded with misdirection and vague wordings. But if this is what we get, this is what we get. It would be our fault for having higher expectations. Thankfully, situations like these will assist in contributing to the avoidance of such issues in the future.
Thank you for the update. -
This feels like a mistake, but I guess we'll see over the next two weeks. The Community will make its mind up on how to respond by then, I'm sure.
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@cogsturning said:
I'd like a little clarification on the game's ban system, which seems to be both looser in reporting and stricter in implementation as of late. This isn't in regards to a personal ban and thus should not break forum rules. It's just a general seeking to understand of the games internal rule system.
As many of us know, reports have suddenly been getting way more responses than they once did. It used to be you had to go through a tedious system with video footage, but the word "optional" is making many appearances in the reportable rules list that I dont recall it making before:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2FDPUZVUKNY6/screenshot-20260702-132022.jpg
And when a player receives a ban, there's almost no info and no report to view on their end.
I'm curious to know what specifically constitutes ban-worthy behavior, and what's being used to quickly process all these reports with no footage and no replay system. The in-game report has vague options like "holding the game hostage" but there aren't even any examples of what that means on the website itself. "Working with the killer" is an in-game option, implying it's only a survivor that can get into trouble, but the website has it as "working with the opposite team," which is different. And how is "targeting someone to ruin their experience" judged?
How is anyone supposed to correct their behavior if there's no specific reason given with a ban, and no specific behavior even in the rules?
And what about exploits not needing video evidence now? What if someone just doesn't understand perks or mechanics and reports someone? What if it's a bug that accidently gets utilized? Could I have been banned for accidently grabbing people through walls as Wesker half a dozen times if they'd reported me? Are techs now reportable too because they're "undocumented features"?
For a system that now seems to issue bans liberally—and has an escalation system that doesn't decay—these rules need to be much clearer, and it would be nice if players didn't have to think any angry person reporting them might result in a ban.
I agree in full. Unless we know the rules, and which rules are broken when they are broken, then there is no point to the rules outside of arbitrary applications. This isn't helpful for game stability, community behavior, or personal adherence. Can we have some clarity on this to better drive the spirit of game health moving forward?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
This game really needs a fresh shake up. Balances, adjustments, killer updates, etc!
The game has felt a bit stale for a little while now. I really hope BHVR has something planned for all of this. There’s so much that needs attention.
Seconded.
