Mister_Holdout
Mister_Holdout
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Mister_Holdout I don't disagree that Ruin is the perk to use to slow the game down, my point is that it's pointless if you are a good Nurse. AFAIK most if not all of the top streamers/YT'ers that play killer don't use Ruin on Nurse because it's overkill. Like you could make the same argument for NOED as you can Ruin for any killer, Nurse included, but it doesn't change the fact that NOED Nurse is for those that lack skill. Nurse is good enough to play without either of these perks.Also, to make a point, you can use Ruin and still get gen rushed if the survivors are good at hitting skill checks. I know I've had games with Ruin where 3 gens still get done in the first chase, and it wasn't even that long of a chase either. On top of the fact that good survivors know all the totem spawns (even the new ones since the last update) just proves further that Ruin or not, if survivors want to gen rush they will gen rush.
Again I never said you can't play well as Nurse without Shadowborn. But it makes up for the few weaknesses she has and can help you play that much better with her. Ruin doesn't offer that, it just passively slows down the game IF the survivors aren't good enough to counter it, and if that's the case you probably don't need it anyway. You only need it, ironically, against the ones that do know how to counter it because those are the games you want to slow down (but as it doesn't really help it's a bit of a moot point).
NOED is a wasted perk slot because in most cases survivors should not be getting all the gens done.
That's why you see Nurses using Ruin and Devour Hope. Because those perks provide a more immediate benefit.
Also, Ruin is more powerful on Nurse than you realize. If you have a skilled Nurse pressuring all the survivors, those skill checks become harder to hit.
I still see those survivor main streamers miss tons of skill checks. In many instances, they decide to go look for the totem. That buys me a lot of time I otherwise wouldn't have. Not to mention, I can use Whispers to guard Ruin. When you combine all those factors, Ruin in a lot of cases can slow the game to a crawl. It just depends on how well you can pressure with the Nurse.
Is it 100% consistent? No, but Ruin does slow down most games (by a favorable amount).
Lastly, I'm not sure where you get this notion that good Nurses shouldn't use Ruin? You said that it's overkill? Ruin isn't overkill. That perk ensures that survivors can't just pump through gens at the start of the match.
Overkill would be me using Fragile Wheeze + Ataxic Respiration and an Ebony Mori. Ruin simply buys me extra time while I build up my momentum. Could I play without Ruin? Sure, but it's a big help when dealing with experienced survivors.
Sounds to me like you've been watching too many survivor main streamers. These guys are constantly pushing the narrative that top tier killers should only be using certain perks. In many cases, they want their games to be easier so they continually make the point that good killers don't need Ruin.
If that's the case, then Marth must be a pretty crappy Nurse.
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Spirit is a good killer because her power counters loops (assuming said killer knows how to win mind games).
If you have a certain skill with killer, then Spirit is very potent because you'll be able to cut survivors off.
Is it 100% consistent? No, but you'll probably win most of your chases.Also, I'm not sure I would say Spirit is the third best killer. Billy and Huntress are both very strong killers. You don't even need add ons to do well with these two. Hag is also very good if played properly.
I don't play a lot of Spirit, but this is my basic understanding.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Mister_Holdout said:
I see that some people have mentioned Shadowborn, so let me give you some advice. Don't use that perk. Shadowborn is essentially a wasted perk slot because you can play just fine without it.The thing with Shadowborn on Nurse is that it makes is significantly harder, borderline impossible, to escape a chase from a good Nurse. Without it, survivors with IW and UE have opportunities to hide from you. With it, those opportunities are greatly reduced. It also helps a ton with corn vision, something that is the bane of the Nurse, as well as being a good way to locate survivors to start the chase. Sure you can play without it, but it makes things much MUCH easier because it basically makes up for her only shortcomings.
I don't disagree with you on Whispers though. It's an amazing perk on a lot of killers, and Nurse is no exception. However I do disagree with Ruin, only because if you are a solid Nurse it's not needed, almost a wasted perk slot. I prefer to play strong killers without Ruin for this reason. The only strong killer I believe Ruin is very much needed is Huntress because she is the only real slow killer in the game, as all other "slow" killers have a power that lets them get around faster. I also use Ruin on Hag, but that's more because it's her perk than because she needs it. I feel I could easily swap it with something like Sloppy or Devour and still have great results.
Sorry, but I don't agree.
I had this conversation with a veteran Nurse main while he was giving me Nurse lessons (long ago). And he told me bluntly that Shadowborn is basically an addiction. It's a good perk that helps with fatigue, but otherwise you don't need it. Not to mention, this person is a Shadowborn user himself.
And through my own journey I've found that Shadowborn is indeed not necessary. I've played enough Nurse to be able to handle most situations.
Usually, when a survivor jukes me, it was because they broke line of sight and I wasn't able to get a read on them quickly enough. Shadowborn does help with this, but it's nothing major. Sometimes survivors can evade you naturally depending on where you hit them. I don't have any problems with corn or spotting survivors hiding next to gens.
Marth is a good example of a great Nurse that doesn't use Shadowborn. He plays without it and can still handle most chases.
Second point, there's nothing wrong with using Ruin. Gens can still pop fast even though you're ending chases quickly. Blinky Bill is a good example here. Back when this dude still played, he was so good that he could call out exactly how the survivor was going to react. But despite how good Blinky was, he still had games where all the gens got done. It didn't happen often, but it did happen nonetheless. That goes to show you that not even the Nurse is immune to gen rushing.
I use Ruin over Shadowborn because the chasing benefits are rather tenuous. With Ruin, I can have the entire game slowed down. Compare that to a perk that may or may not help with one chase.
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@Zachzodia said:
I've been playing nurse for a long time and the best build i've used is ruin, bbq and chili, make your choice and nurses calling... i sometimes swap out make your choice for whispers or shadowborn depending on how i wanna play at the moment... as for addons, the most broken i'd say is ataxic respiration and fragile wheeze(considerably increased range + 1 additional blink with no negative parts). Ataxic respiration and catatonic boys treasure is also very good.Yeah, people are very quick to say omegablink Nurse is the most op. But honestly, I agree with you.
3 blinks + range is very nasty. If you're good with mind games as a survivor, you could potentially juke a Nurse with omegablink.
But with 3 blinks, it becomes extremely hard to juke the Nurse.
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Nurse main here:
This is what I consider the best build for Nurse:
-Ruin
-BBQ
-Nurse's Calling
-WhispersI see that some people have mentioned Shadowborn, so let me give you some advice. Don't use that perk. Shadowborn is essentially a wasted perk slot because you can play just fine without it.
I tend to use Ruin because even good Nurses get gen rushed.
I would also tell you that BBQ, NC, and Whispers are staples. You really want these perks in your build.
BBQ for obvious reasons.
NC for obvious reasons as well.
Whispers on the other hand seems to be less common. Probably because you need to use your brain with that perk. Whispers is terrific because it allows you to more effectively pressure all the survivors. Immersed survivors will have a difficult time evading you if Whispers is involved. All in all, Whispers is a reliable tracking perk.Add ons:
For me, range add ons are very effective. Once you master Nurse without any add ons, you'll become a beast with range add ons. It will take several games to adjust to the extra range though.
The main reason you're supposed to start out playing with no add ons is so that you can learn all the mechanics and mind games.
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Jeff, for obvious reasons.
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Too bad the perk gets destroyed by SWF.
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I constantly leave my teammates behind. Maybe that's why I'm a crappy survivor.
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Maybe. It would need to be tested.
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I almost always give Laurie the hatch.
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Ruin, BBQ, Enduring, and Spirit Fury works well on most of the killers.
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This is probably selfish of me, but I would love the ability to pick various hair styles, facial hair, and colors.
Depending on what options we get, I could create one of my favorite fictional characters, Askeladd.
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I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. First, there's something you need to understand. PC and console are completely different animals. The skill caps are much different between those two platforms.
As for Leatherface, he's definitely one of the worst killers. His power does not help him in a chase verse good survivors.
He may look strong at times because of his insta down, but that won't help verse skilled survivors. Leatherface will not have much opportunity to use his saw. He basically will have to M1 most of the time.
Even other lower tier killers have tools that may prevent a survivor from getting an extra loop. Wraith for example with the proper add ons can block windows and pallets. Leatherface literally has nothing to help against loops. His power actually hurts him.
He does have strong defense, but that doesn't matter verse good survivors. You need killers that can end the chase fast. Leatherface can't do this unless the survivors run out of windows and pallets.
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@Weederick said:
Hello again, going from billy to survivor as it seems
Im not as good as no0b3 or real survivor mains, but i can give some adviceI generally watch for the red stain and hit Space at the latest moment possible. This gives you a little bit more time to react. If the red stain comes towards me, i jump the window. If it stops or turns around, i will fake it. You just have to watch out for moonwalkers, who will start to turn around and moonwalk at that exact moment to make you fake out the window and then they are right behind you. Dont know how to counter that, since its hard to make the correct decision in a split second.
You keep looping the pallet and try to keep the killer on the longer side of the loop. You always want to jump the pallet when he is on the longer side. If you guess correctly, you can usually make a loop for more free time, but try to never end up vaulting with the killer on the short side.
If the pallet is really unsafe and he challenges you on it, you will get hit. Waste as much time by winning mindgames as possible, then use the hitburst to run off. Dont vault if you know you'll get hit, take the full hitburst instead.Use windows as much as possible. Dont drop the pallet if you know you're getting hit. Dont drop god pallets if you're healthy. Only use god pallets when you're injured to prevent going down. So your general plan is to create loops with all the windows nearby and use pallets inbetween to break bloodlust. Cowtree, Jungle gyms, 4 walls, shack etc all have windows. While some are not strong on their own, a single palletloop nearby can create really strong loops where you dont have to drop a pallet for a long time.
Thx. I mostly play killer, but I do enjoy playing survivor. I kinda caved and decided to play Billy with Q and E. It's just superior to mouse honestly. Still have a ways to go though.
I really like your tip about the red stain. Sometimes it can be hard to judge what the red stain is doing. So I'll watch and see if I can notice it slowing down or fading.
I think the hardest part is knowing whether or not you're versing a good or bad killer. At which point you'll know to watch out for moonwalking.
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The killer quiz is inaccurate. There's no way I'm the Hag.
Survivor quiz seems more realistic. I can somewhat see myself in Jake.
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I know of one guy by the name of Leatherbilly. He's a dedicated LF main. And he might have some game play.
Otherwise, you can watch people like Zubat play him. Leatherface is weak, but you can make the most of him by being efficient in chases.
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Spirit is one of the easier killers to play. The hardest part is learning the mind games.
If you can do that, you'll be golden.
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Even though I've had some really frustrating games as survivor, I still haven't resorted to DS. Because I understand what a fundamentally broken perk it is.
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Not from what I've seen. Huntress is still very much a top tier killer.
One observation of mine hasn't changed tho. Most people can't play Huntress at an optimal level.
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Not really. The pipping system requires that you actually do stuff.
As long as you earn points in enough categories, you'll pip. This can be hard tho.
Sometimes you get really bad teams that have no sense whatsoever.
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My real name is actually Jeff.
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Sometimes you get a bad team. It happens. I almost always just roll with it.
There are some really good team perks that are worth running. Might help out with your games some.
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The aura reading/killer detection survivor perks aren't really that necessary once you gain experience.
After reaching a certain skill cap with survivor, you can run pretty much use whatever you want. Most survivors will pick something other than detection perks.
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I've seen that before. Not sure what causes it lol.
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From a killer main's perspective, Legion is dreadfully boring. No skill cap whatsoever.
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Noob3 and Vooshy seem to be among the best survivors. There may be others who are better, but I haven't seen them yet.
If you want to loop well, watch these guys play.
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Oh, I'll admit there are things Tru could have done better.
But in the end, killers can't really compete with efficient survivors.
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No, it's extremely rare that I rage quit.
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Basekit Nurse is fine.
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bows - My lord
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- I'll get at least some satisfaction killing the toxic survivor.
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I will always sacrifice myself for Laurie
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This post couldn't be further from the truth. Billy in my opinion is one of the most difficult killers to play effectively.
And let me emphasize that word: effectively
If you're only interested in playing Billy at a mediocre level, then yes, he's not that hard to play.
But if you want to play Billy at a high level (which means being able to compete with skilled survivors), then that will require a significant amount of skill and experience.
The reason for this is because Billy requires quite a bit of mechanical skill. If you want to beat good survivors, then you will have to pull off some difficult chainsaws.
You'll need to know how to chainsaw at loops, such as the killer shack. Map knowledge pretty much ties in with this.
You'll also need to know how to land chainsaws against survivors that 360. This is also can be very difficult depending on the survivor. And of course, some survivors are just good at faking out the saw in general.
Q and E (which is what I use) can make these tasks easier, but even still, those controls take a long time to master.
This whole idea that Billy is an easy killer is simply false. Try playing Billy against survivors like Noob3 or Vooshy and watch what happens. I'm willing to bet most Billy players get wrecked.
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Not a whole lot you can do against a Legion. As others have said, run early and force him to catch up.
You might also be able to learn the correct timing for pallet stuns, but unfortunately, that can be really inconsistent.
You could probably pull off some stealth plays, but it will take some cleverness considering a lot of Legions are using Bloodhound.
The main issue with Legion is he/she is so boring to verse as survivor. And I really mean that. It's not fun versing the most brain-dead killer in the game.
The best advice I can give is to keep your distance and hope your team is efficient. Running perks like Kindred will help your team coordinate better.
Also, don't heal against a legion. That wastes time. Just go back to doing gens. Decent survivors shouldn't be afraid of a Legion while injured.
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Nurse gets a bad rep because many people play her with over-powered add ons.
You don't encounter many of what I call "old school Nurses". These are Nurses that rarely use strong add ons. And most of the time they run BBQ, NC, Whispers, and Shadowborn.
Even though skilled Nurses are difficult to verse, they can still be defeated. It just takes a lot of effort from the survivors. Nurse is the one killer that you can't dick around with. And survivors hate that.
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Just buff Leatherface already. He's one of the most iconic horror movie slashers.
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My Nurse eats SWF for breakfast as well.
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Shirtless Laurie would be even more OP.
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Laurie>Lauren
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The Legion needs a new power...BAD
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F-ing Legion.
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I'll have to try it out myself. Rank reset is the perfect time to try new things.
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Thanks for the tip!
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We already have Laurie tho. What more could you want?
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Camp killer. I don't know why, but reading that over and over made me chuckle.
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I'm not a huge fan of SWF in this game. Breaks the immersion for me.
The few times I teamed up with others, I recall there being some smack talk. SWF tends to bring out the worst in us. It's easy to forget that you're versing another player who is trying to win (the same as you).
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I'm a devout killer main, so here are my suggestions for helping your survival chances:
Never stay close to a downed/hooked survivor verse any of the top tier killers. That almost never ends well.
If you go down next to that survivor, you've basically doomed the entire match. Instead, you should leave immediately and start working on a gen. OR, hide far enough away that the killer won't find you easily and get ready to rescue.Don't get caught in the basement verse a strong basement killer. If you're versing a Leatherface, Huntress, Hag ect, do not get caught near the basement. That puts your team in a very difficult spot. It's better to run away from the basement and go down somewhere else. You're much easier to rescue on a normal hook.
Run Borrowed Time if you're encountering a lot of camping/tunneling killers. At the very least, you can protect your benevolence points this way. Kindred is also a very strong recommendation. That perk will help your team coordinate their next move.
Try not to bring killers near a gen being worked on or a hooked survivor. This can substantially slow the progress of the game.
When you rescue someone from the hook and you suspect the killer is coming back, head off in the opposite direction from them. This is good for reducing tunneling by making yourself the next target.
(This tip is very important). Quit healing so much during the match. In fact, I would drop self care if you haven't already. Healing gives the killer more time because gens aren't being worked on. If you get hit, go back to repairing generators. Try not to heal unless it's cost effective. Skilled survivors heal with Adrenaline.
(This tip is also very important). Don't fall for the slug bait. Some killers will slug a survivor in an attempt to halt the progress of the game. Don't fall for this. If someone gets slugged, continue working on your gen. Even if the slugged person is getting close to bleeding out, leave them for as long as you can. By completely gens, you put all the pressure on the killer.
These are some of my tips as a killer main and a rank 1 solo survivor.
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I wouldn't really say a lot of survivors aren't nice. A better word would be unsportsmanlike given how you rarely get a gg from a survivor.
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@SenzuDuck said:
So 15 seconds sounds like the time in takes for one survivor to heal another, not the time it takes to heal yourself.I guess you got a team that's good at healing each other, nothing wrong with that.
You could stop losing chases as well? I think if a survivor constantly jukes you enough times to be healed over and over again they're doing pretty well and probably deserve the heal.
Umm not always. There are still really strong loops that exist in the game.
If I see a Nea running to one of the houses on Haddonfield, that's it, I'm not chasing anymore.
Do you really think that Nea deserves a heal because she decided to cheese the building?I know not everyone does that, but it's still pretty common at rank 1.
Normally, these type of changes I can live with. I just wish the devs would fix some other problems as well.
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I actually combined it with Botanty Knowledge. That was a pretty speedy heal.