MadLordJack
MadLordJack
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- MadLordJack
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2153547#Comment_2153547
Not really. Giving up to win? With most common win conditions certainly. But to be fair the chance for a 4k is higher then when you chase someone who can just open the exit gate after a hit.
But he is not giving up on playing a killer. He is still a threat for the survivor. They need to take a risk to get all 4 out, they are not safe.
I know everyone has his own opinions but for me its exciting to get the safe against a camping killer when the exit gates are 99%. Bc its a challenge, but possible.
I mean, it's not a challenge. Either everyone has the required meta perks, or they don't. There's not much you can do agaisnt a killer if there's no BT or DS, not even the unhook tech will work.
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@Khar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2153376#Comment_2153376
No one said to make one side blatantly overpowered.
The game is pretty balanced right now. Buffing either side would make them OP.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152633#Comment_2152633
Most of the time killer camp bc they know they cant get a down before the survivor leaves. Isnt a chase where the outcome is clear boring? To try to get a unhook against a defending killer is for all players more interesting if the survivor try. And when not the survivor can just kill himself and its over in seconds. Its frustrating for me when i dont get rescued, but a free escape is boring and i hate it when the killer gives up.
Endgame facecamping is the killer giving up.
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@PsyQuil77 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2153376#Comment_2153376
That IS how balancing works if one side is guaranteed to have 4 people and the other side only has 1. You have to make the power approximately equal between the 2 sides. Survivor side has 16 perks and 4 offerings available to them, Killer Side has 4 perk slots and 1 offering slot. With the competitive nature of SWFs (not just 3-4 man, but even the duos are getting viscous), Killers need a leg up against them, but the issue is that doing so ruins the game for solo queue players. But when underpowered killers face these competitive SWFs, many just stop playing killer all together. resulting in the massive queue times you see during prime time. There is just way too many layers here that a "Buff The Killers" or "Nerf the Killers" forum post can address.
TL;DR: This game is too complex for a simple solution, which is why it hasn't been addressed.
I don't think you understand the concept of "blatantly overpowered".
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That's not how balancing works. Making one side blatantly overpowered in a game whose playerbase is getting more and more competitive... Need I finish that thought?
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The latency is getting steadily worse and the only thing hit validation did was screw over killers for daring to go against survivors with a ping not relatively equal to their own.
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@Venoxxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152943#Comment_2152943
I mean, survivors really aren't the root cause. We'll never know who started this entitled toxic war between both sides but that's also just how games are... it's not just DBD. However, both sides are at fault. I've seen killers call survivors toxic just for knowing how to run a loop. I've been called toxic because I enjoy swf over solo. Killers also have their imaginary set of rules. We can't SWF, we're not allowed to loop or do gens, we can't escape, we can't have hatch, we aren't allowed to do anything and we deserved to be tunneled/camped to heck even if we did nothing wrong, etc. Now, yes, survivors also have their rules but don't just point a finger at one side.
Just stick with "People choose to play one side and due to that, refuse to understand how the opposite side works" period. Which, yes, is pretty much what it is.
No-one ever joked about the Killers Rulebook til a long, long time after the creation of the original meme.
Edi: *Killers Rulebook For Survivors.
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@Dpooly said:
@MadLordJack Your bias is showing, I said nothing about a specific role with that statement.
It's not bias, it's basic gameplay issues. 8 people is insane. There's nothing any pair of killers can do agaisnt 8 people in DbD. They can literally become both unhookable and unsluggable.
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It's because people can choose to play one side, usually survivor. Which, while good for the longevity and enjoyment of the game, means that people don't really understand the opposing side. They create their own ideas of how their opponents should play because they genuinely think their imaginary way if playing works.
And I specified 'survivor' because that seems to be the root cause. Certain survivors attack the killer for breaking their imaginary set of rules, a lot of those killers get driven even further away from the survivor experience because of the tribal mentality common to all humans, this creates the "us Vs them" dynamic that you see a lot more the further up you rank, and suddenly you have people that have no clue what their opponents go through because they refuse to play both sides relatively equally.
The problems that inflate this are the power gap between killers, the power gap between solo and SWF, the power gap between what each side brings into trials (Nurse Vs 4 solo's, Pig Vs a full genrushing party), and certain people essentially bullying those players who are less prepared than them, either for their own twisted version of revenge for when it happened to them or for pure videogame sadism.
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@ALostPuppy said:
Honestly if they were to add more players I think they should remove gens and hooks, have it be a sudden death type of thing, or you have to survive for a length of time against 2/3/more killers until gates are powered.
...damn that would actually be so fun and I desperately want that gamemode now :(
So, make every survivor a Blendette with Iron Will/No Mither/Urban Evasion?
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@Dpooly said:
...and it's all you pessimistic tryhards only concerned with winning that ruin any chance of others having fun...you know, what games are for. Quit playing like your life depends on it and chill out, it's not the end if the world to lose a round of DbD.
The killer isn't a bot. They have to win too.
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The Badham realm has been reworked so much it's like complaining about Nurse or Legion: what's the point, they aren't going to touch it again again.
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I would suggest you play killer to get a feel for what info killers have.
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Hangman's trick was nerfed to oblivion before it even went live. Now it's extremely rare to see a survivors aura unless they are actively sabotaging.
Edit: The reworked version, that is to say. The OG version was even worse.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I doubt that Killers will use Spies from the Shadows. They are too attached to their Slowdown-Perks, sadly.
Or, more accurately, killers would just use a better tracking perk.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152584#Comment_2152584
That finding and chasing would end in 30 seconds, what with the exit gates powered up and all. I'm pretty sure the sacrifice would give more BP.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152583#Comment_2152583
I'm not saying that at all, and also I am. I am aware that one side or the other will hate it; no side likes to lose.
But I don't see Killers demanding Survivors jump onto meat hooks during the EGC because losing sucks. I DO, however, see Survivors demanding camping be changed. They are trying to demand Killers play a certain way that benefits them, and their enjoyment of the game, over the Killer's.
So that's the difference, when it comes to camping; one side is using 'anti-fun' as an excuse to try handicapping the other side. One side is trying to say 'My enjoyment takes precedence over yours' or 'You can only win if I approve of it', and since no one likes losing, that 'approval' would be pretty scanty.
Again, this is only about camping. I'm well aware both sides scream bloody murder over nerfs, buffs, and perks.
Assuming you are facecamping someone that has never been hooked and it is the endgame collapse, which means maximum bloodpoints, you get.... 200 points for making them hit struggle and 500 points for sacrificing them. If they had already been hooked, you only get the 500. If it's not EGC, those bloodpoints go down to 200/200. You could argue that you might get bloodpoints for interacting with rescuers, but let's keep it simple and assume you didn't go against potatoes. And because you're not going against potatoes, the gates won't be open and it won't be EGC. So that's 400-600 BP for facecamping someone from unhooked to sacrificed, a single pip point in the sacrifice catagory, and a while lot of negative points for the Hunter catagory.
Now let's look at just leaving and chasing someone. In my experience that almost always results in another hook, but for consistency let's say it doesn't. You get 200 for starting a chase, which you will start with at least two people just by seeing them run out the exit gates. Breaking pallets and walls is 100 each, so let's assume you break a single pallet for 100. You're definitely going to be able to hit them, which is another 300. So right now we're sitting at 800 BP. Which is an extremely conservative estimate and assumes you only hit one person and don't get at least one more hook.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152558#Comment_2152558
So...The Killer should let the Survivor go, simply because they will be sad they died? Nevermind the lost BP (regardless of how much). The Survivors enjoyment should take precedent over the Killer's enjoyment (that camped kill can mean the difference between a miserable 0 kills or maybe 1 or 2, which can change their enjoyment), and over the Killer's stats at the end of the game (BP and pips)?
That's basically what you're saying. The Killer should just give up and leave so the Survivor is not sad.
When you get no benefit for facecamping them to death? If you want a personal victory, go right ahead and facecamp them. But you get more of both bloodpoints and pip points by finding and chasing other people.
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Plague is a bit higher than that because of how defensive she can get when survivors cleanse. It's not unlike Hag or Trapper
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Honestly, there's no point facecamping someone to death. I know a lot of people do it because they want a kill, but a single kill almost literally means nothing in either bloodpoints or pips and you're making someone's trial miserable. So I just leave and go find people to chase so I can farm bloodpoints.
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I mean, Julie, Joey and Trickster...
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Try to flame the killer in the endgame chat for something they didn't understand. I've had teammates/opponents with 50 hours blow up at the killer because of an add-on or perk they genuinely didn't understand. I got reported for running Padded Jaws. Saw a Huntress get reported for the 1-shot build (where you run Iri head, no belt, and 4 I stadown perks). The worst was a survivor that was just the most toxic thing ever, killer literaly dropped them on hatch, and they screamed in the chat about how the killer sucked and didn't even know how to close the hatch right. Killer was console, too.
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I really want to see the house from Scream, or failing that the shopping centre from the Ghostface chapter trailer.
Or they could complete break the cannon and add the house from the end of the movie and next to it Sidney's house and the map can be running between them, screaming about how only dumb people go upstairs.
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@KerJuice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2151107#Comment_2151107
Good killers don’t camp. Maybe I need edit my OP. Let’s assume he’s not a camper- which the average killer isn’t. Besides, campers are going to camp regardless and don’t usually run info perks.
Actually, good killers do camp quite a bit because it's kind of dumb to leave a hooked person, a half-finished gen, and someone creeping around the vicinity, and it's especially bad to do so if there's no-one popping up on BBQ that you can quickly go chase.
So, I'm the BBQ girl. Come chase me, killer. Regress this gen. Just leave my teammates alone.
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Or they could remove the Broken status that broadcasts what perk you are running and instead just make it so that if you heal the killer see's your aura or something.
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Because it's better for the killer to actually come over to me, away from the hook.
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I love chaos and hate the W key, so that's why I main Blight. Also Plague, because once again I love chaos.
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It's kind of just how the game works. Survivors have a way of fighting back against everything the killer can possibly do, whether or not it's useful to do so. Bodyblocking is a part of denying killers hooks, alongside sabotage.
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Third Seal, same as Knockout, is mostly a solo-bullying perk. It does almost nothing against the absolutely significant majority of SWF teams - not because they are good, but because it only takes a moment to go "hey, I'm slugged outside shack."
Which is a good thing, because I only ever see third seal on slugging builds. You know, the builds whose counterplay doesn't exist for solo survivors.
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Given that survivors absolutely have more than enough time to go from pallet to pallet agaisnt Bubba, it being his main counterplay, I have to assume you are actually talking about how you screwed up and got downed in a deadzone.
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@redsopine00 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2150303#Comment_2150303
Slow entering a locker makes no noise yet grabbed would be a good tell they have it
Slowly entering a locker does, in fact, make a small creaking and shutting sound.
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You can't adapt to something that has no real tells. There's no way for a survivor to know if the wraith has all-seeing, good situational awareness, or got lucky.
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I understand his reasoning but I disagree with a lot of the end results. That's okay though, at the end of the day it is an opinion piece as all tier lists are.
Though I'm glad to see people are waking up to the power of Plague.
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Please elaborate on what you mean by "downgrading"?
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@syain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2150204#Comment_2150204
Where does this "the only 2 viable killers are Nurse and Spirit" idea come from?
Laziness and ignorance, mostly. Both of them are extremely easy compared to Blight, Oni, Plague, Huntress, etc. You kind of just switch your brain off and rely on muscle memory. Other killers can't do that.
There's also the fact that Spirit and Nurse are two of the three killers (Blight being the third) that can sort of counter the predrop-and-W meta, but the significant majority of players don't play like that because even they find it dull.
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@Kira4Evr said:
I have no idea why killers complain about Dead Hard. Most of them are just saying "It has no counter if u use it for distance". I mean, have you ever heard about The Spirit? A killer with a power that has no counter, you're only lucky IF she makes a mistake. And also, you can use Dead Hard once per chase, and it has a cooldown of 40 seconds, you can use Spirits power multiple times in a chase.
I can agree that Dead Hard has no counter when you use it for distance and that you shouldn't be able to Dead Hard over Beartraps. But I don't really think killer mains can complain about Dead Hard because they think it's frustrating when they have The Spirit on their side.
I'm sorry, what? Is there something in any of that that made sense? Do you think killers just play Spirit all the time? Do you think most killers even think Spirit is fair?
One steaming pile of shite does not justify another. That mentality makes no sense.
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@fancynancy said:
@MadLordJack Well seeing how you described how most survivors use it, they seem to abuse the power of the perk. I actually use it to dodge a hit if the killer is behind me and about to hit me (not to greed a pallet, etc.), so I guess it depends on how it's used??
I don't think Dead Hard, or just exhaustion perks in general in their current state, will ever be nice to deal with - they all give the survivor distance for free. But Dead Hard is the biggest offender by far due to it's insane utility and core design concept.
It is a perk to nullify a killers good play and/or a survivors mistake. That is its core design. I'm not sure if there's a way to make it less unpleasant without nerfing it to the ground.
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Replacing m1 holding with item fetching for gen repairs, updating the pip system to work properly as a win/lose condition, and adding in some form of solo que info sharing.
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@Mooks said:
Kinda like accusing survs of gen rush... :)
Not really. Unlike every single scenario in which the killer can quickly end the game, there's not much any killer can do against 3-minute gens. But that's more a design flaw in the game itself that cannot be rectified whilst gens are so uninteractive.
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@RiskyKara said:
I'd say Susie, it seems like she was the good girl of the crew who in a tragic act of malice from a charismatic leader was forced to sharing the kill of a random who forever cursed her. It was a tense moment, things got super real incredibly fast and she was told she had to do it. I mean yo if three people said I had to stab a dude or become an unreliable loose end (After they already showed a willingness to murder) I'd stab a dude, that's fear, panic and self preservation.
Instead of being able to walk away, simply tormented by the horrible act they'd done but still try to move on from it or even accept blame down the line she ended up in the fog. Now she has to forever chase survivors and have that one act of adrenaline fueled panic define her as she sacrifices person after person after person who kick struggle beg and scream to be spared while a dark force compels her against her will (Just like the first murder.)
Talk about hell.
If you read her Year of The Rat cosmetics lore you will quickly rethink that stance.
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He's already there, so...
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Wraith and Spirit.
Edit: also Hag, she was literally eaten by cannibals.
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Ruin/Surge/Tinkerer/Discordance. The ability to take survivors by surprise is amazing, plus Discordance is one of her best perks. I also like Ruin/Undying/Retribution/Infectious Fright, or Ruin/Undying/Thrill of The Hunt/Devour Hope.
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Just do what I do and play Spirit to soak up all the salty comments about how you cheesed it and how she's super easy even though you find her the hardest of the top three killers because your mind isn't build for that kind of playstyle.
Okay, that advice maybe only works if you're me. But also, if you're not having fun, just do whatever so long as it's not actual BM.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2147635#Comment_2147635
Different killers work against different strategies. If you struggle against a specific strategy then use a perk or killer to counteract that.
This game kinda has to be balanced around perks and killers because if it wasn’t high level play would be a mess
It currently is a mess beacuse the design team bandaided problems instead of fixing the core issues. Getting tunneled and camped? Run BT and DS and don't complain. Getting predrop-and-W'd? Play one of three killers and don't complain. Playing solo survivor? Run info perks and don't complain. And why aren't you allowed to complain? Because people will always point to the bandaids and say "JuSt UsE tHoSe". It's already happening with Small Game.
Bandaiding problems with perks and/or specific killers is genuinely idiotic game design. It is the absolute worst. It severely limits people's options in a game where variety is one of the key selling points. Sure, it's never going to be perfectly balanced with zero bandaids, but they could at least fix core issues instead of saying "should have used X".
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@thrawn3054 said:
Because they'll never be happy until every semi useful things survivors have to work with gets nerfed.
An interesting mindset. One that is applicable to all "mains".
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It's not a "dodge" perk as it's described, not unless you are going against certain killers that cannot bait it out. It's actually a distance perk with no counterplay that undoes a mistake in a game where mistakes are absolutely crucial.
In fact, that's also it's use when using it to dodge a Blink or Hatchet or Lethal Rush, or Phase Hit, or Bear Trap, or Pig Ambush, or Wraith Lunge. Or when you screw up at an unsafe pallet but it's big enough that the killer has to lunge around to hit you.
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If they make him harder to play by removing his zone-by-existing, he'll get Nurse Syndrome and people will suddenly stop complaining and instead compliment a good Slinger. That, or they'll admit they're hypocrites and/or sheep that just follow the opinion of the masses and don't actually care how difficult a killer with no counterplay is to play.
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As someone for whom this is the norm (not the OoO, the everything else) I can definitely say that there's not much to be done. I've had over a year to test every possible counter to predrop-and-W I can think of and the only effective strategy is camping someone in a deadzone. And by "effective" I mean "they still just stick on gens but now you maybe get a kill". Or you play one of the 3 killers that can reliably counter it.
That being said, it's not so much a SWF problem as it is SWF grouping together to abuse a gameplay design flaw (holding W).
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On.
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I spend them whenever. Sometimes immediately, sometimes when I have a few hundred thousand.