fancynancy
fancynancy
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@MintberryCrunch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2147905#Comment_2147905
Been playing this for about a year now and that last bit still confuses me.
Is a killer really tunneling to go for the injured one rather than the healthy? I think of tunneling as ignoring the best options to make sure someone goes out, don't get me wrong when playing killer I go for different people depending on different things but is it so wrong to attack the injured rather than healthy?
I get that it's really annoying as I play survivor much more than killer, but if a teammate unhooks me in front of the killer, we both bolt, and the killer chases me then I think the teammate is the one who messed up with the bad unhook. I never blame the killer for this as it seems like the obvious best option for them. Whereas tunneling to me should be having tunnel vision and ignoring the better option just to get someone out.
Realise this has probably been discussed a lot before but I finally made an account on here, long time lurker.
Thanks.
Hmm... say that the survivor that unhooks the hooked survivor is injured as well. If the killer happens to come back to the hook and goes after the survivor that was just unhooked even though the injured survivor that unhooked the survivor is in sight, then it's tunneling. Whenever I play killer, I always avoid going for the survivor that was just unhooked so that the game is more fair and fun for them whether or not they are injured. If the survivor that unhooks is farming, then the killer isn't really tunneling, so it's entirely the survivor's fault for farming.
This is also why ds and bt exists, so that the survivors actually have a chance to play and survive instead of being constantly downed and dying before they even have a chance to play.
Also same, I've been a lurker for the longest time but being able to participate in discussions is so fun! :)
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@BioX said:
hate threads like this, the answer is obvious, you are just wasting time and this is borderline bait that so many have fallen for it seems
Well I'm fairly new to the game so I'm still learning tons about it. I genuinely had no idea why dead hard was that annoying to killers since I only ever used it to dodge hits instead of using it for distance or to avoid bear traps. Because of the comments, I'm learning and understanding why dead hard can be an annoying perk. I can't say I'm sorry that my genuine curiosity bothers you since you seem to have felt the need to look through this thread knowing you don't like these types of questions. :)
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@Dpooly said:
All these people saying it's a 'third health state' are wrong. It's a dodge...nothing more nothing less. They aren't healed or deep wounded (an actual third health state) when they use it. It's only as devastating as you make it, if you decide to chase someone for more than a minute that's on YOU. Dead Hard is not that much of an issue, lazy Killers just want an easy game even though they move faster and have a built in speed boost called Bloodlust.
You make an extremely valid point! I didn't think of it that way, but I agree. I think it's just a perk that's annoying to killers since it's time consuming, but I don't think it's that bad to the point where they should get rid of it. Sure, I think it can be nerfed a tiny bit so that dead hard can't dodge bear traps, but other than that, it's a perk to help survivors (like with any other perks)!
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@xEzekanarioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2150040#Comment_2150040
Yeah my ruin example was just what it is, an example. Dont mind it.
Feel free to do more posts about asking to killers stuff, but you can always play killer yourself and find your answers.
Once you play any m1 killer you will say: oh, its because of that.
No, my bad!! Thanks for the example! :)
I play killer here and there but I never really stick to it since I don't enjoy playing as much as survivor! But once in a while, I push myself to play killer to remind myself and learn more about how killers feel and see things!!
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@xEzekanarioX See, I don't hate ruin though. I 100% understand that ruin's a hex and can very easily be destroyed when the totem is found. Same with other killer perks. Yeah, ruin can be annoying but it's not to the point I single out that one killer perk and deeply complain about it.
I just never understood the why killers hated dead hard more than other exhaustion perks, but now I do thanks to the other comments! :)
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2148817#Comment_2148817
I've got over 6000 hours in this game. I didn't "forget" anything.
And yes, it is completely unearned. You literally had to be injured to use it. Once injured, it was given to you for no other reason than...you got injured.
Much like NOED, it's a reward for playing badly. You should have to atone for your mistakes, and get better at the video game. Not have a perk to save you.
Interesting... I don't see what hours have to do with what I said but I completely respect your opinion.
I would also like to agree to disagree with what you said about dh being completely unearned and having to atone our mistakes to use other second chance perks (other than dh).
Thank you for your responses though! I like seeing what other people think!
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@celesteismore said:
This Spirit kept hitting me on the hook for running them for 3 gens. Guess she didn't like that I wasted her time when she could've stopped committing.
Yeah, I think in those cases, it's clear that the killer didn't have good time management and gen pressure. It also means your good with chases so props to you!
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@swager21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2148825#Comment_2148825
sprint burst can be 99d
Oh for sure, but it's hard to do 99 your sprint burst mid chase especially after you used it at first if that makes sense?
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@FFirebrandd said:
It doesn't have anything to do with whether the Killer is new or not. Dead Hard gets complained about because it comes into play at the point where the Killer otherwise would have gotten a down. Most Killers run a lot of perks that activate on hook or on down, so getting robbed of a down even temporarily hurts a lot more than you might think. Double that if a good Dead Hard happens during the first chase of the game. That makes it the most frustrating of all of the Exhaustion perks.
Just take a minute to compare that... where you lose a down when you've already invested 30+ seconds in getting it to the following...
Sprint Burst gets used at the very start of chase 99% of the time. Meaning the Killer can be like "Well off they go, I'm just gonna ignore that." and not lose much time to it.
Lithe usually comes out early too, so a similar thing can happen.
Balanced Landing has more flexibility of when it gets activated compared to Sprint Burst or Lithe out but is much rarer and requires a drop.
Head On can come out whenever but is incredibly difficult to use mid chase and can be baited out.
THIS!! Very well explained. Thank you!!
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@Axe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2148820#Comment_2148820
you cant dodge hit with it anymore. It worked with old movement and peer2peer but it's much more inconsistent and "buggy" on dedicated + animations.
Its should be used to create distance instead or as you said "abuse it"
Hmm interesting. I think you're right, but I choose to only dodge hits using dh but it's hard to get the timing right sometimes.
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@swager21 said:
i dont get it either. sprint burst gives way more distance
This is what I thought! But after learning more about how it's used, killers fear dh bc it's a perk that can be used at your own time rather than sprint burst being an perk that automatically activates once you run.
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@Axe said:
"I'm a survivor main and run dead hard purely to avoid getting downed during a chase."
you already answer your own question with the very first sentence, if you get exhausted on the ground while using dead hard that means you don't use it to make distance but instead tried to use it to dodge an attack which is not the correct way to use it anymore.
chases should be skill-based but then you got perks like this that say "press E to cover up your mistake lmao ez win"
I'm a bit confused with what you said. Are you saying that the correct way to use dead hard is to abuse it? Because the only reason dead hard exists is to dodge a hit, which is what I do.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/246099/why-do-killers-hate-dead-hard
"I run dead hard purely to avoid getting downed in a chase".
There's your reason. It gives you an unearned, free health state. Being that you had to be injured to use it, it's basically a reward for failure.
Remember back before hit validation when vault hits were REALLY, REALLY bad? Like, you'd vault shack window, walk 10 feet, and the killer still hits you through it? That feeling of not actually being outplayed, that demoralizing feeling of "I was just robbed" you got? That's the same feeling a killer gets when you are SUPPOSED to go down because the killer *played better* than you, but you had dead hard. The killer equivalent of that would be if a killer could reset a gen to zero, with one kick.
That's not even counting when it's used for distance, which there's no counter to, even if the killer knows they have it. I've seen even some of the best killers out there have their chase completely reset because a survivor dead harded for distance to a strong pallet or vault, and added 30+ seconds (which is an eternity for a killer) onto a chase.
If you use dead hard, and would have otherwise gone down had you not had it, you are a worse survivor than the person who doesn't use it and managed to loop just fine. You're mediocre, at very best. I'm not saying this to insult, it's just the truth. Most dead hard users, including those at the top of the twitch directory, have no clue what to do when they don't have their dead hard to bail them out of their terrible looping plays.
Oh hmm I see your point! I think you're forgetting that it is an exhaustion perk meant to dodge a hit... so by "unearned" I see your side, but I wouldn't say completely unearned (if that makes sense)?
Also, here's what I think about perks– I think they're very useful for whatever they're meant to do, but I don't think it should ever be the reason why you escape/get kills. I only consider killers/survivors good and strategic if they don't rely on perks to win.
If I also may ask, what's your take on other second chance perks (like bt, ds, etc.)?? I'm curious about what you think about them.
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@Kira4Evr said:
I have no idea why killers complain about Dead Hard. Most of them are just saying "It has no counter if u use it for distance". I mean, have you ever heard about The Spirit? A killer with a power that has no counter, you're only lucky IF she makes a mistake. And also, you can use Dead Hard once per chase, and it has a cooldown of 40 seconds, you can use Spirits power multiple times in a chase.
I can agree that Dead Hard has no counter when you use it for distance and that you shouldn't be able to Dead Hard over Beartraps. But I don't really think killer mains can complain about Dead Hard because they think it's frustrating when they have The Spirit on their side.
Oh this is an interesting point! Spirit is one of those killers that I'm like "yeah I couldn't do anything about that" when downed so I feel like this is very valid! Now I know where dead hard can be annoying since there are some ways where dead hard can be abused, but other that that I feel like dead hard is an all around okay perk!
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@GeneralV I 100% agree with you and yes, I see the bigger problem now! Glad to know that we're on the same page. :)
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@HelloSidney No, see, killers are good and strategic players if they don't face camp/tunnel. If they camp, they're wasting time at the hook, which allows the other survivors to finish gens thus resulting in the killer losing gen pressure and the amount of times they could've hooked other survivors. If they tunnel, they're not giving survivors a chance to actually play the game (which is why they're playing in the first place). I don't call killers "tunnelers" if another survivor unhooks me, and the killer goes after them, not me (even though they could've).
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@GeneralV Oh yeah, I think it needs the change where you can't avoid certain killer's powers (i.e. bear traps, etc.) so that it's only used to avoid a hit.
Now I don't know about your stance on avoiding a hit, but it's pretty clear a lot of killers want the kills, but please remember survivors want to escape just as much!
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@Dustin No yeah that makes sense. I don't understand why dh can be used against a bear trap... doesn't add up to me.
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@Bard Wow that was actually very informative, thank you!! I didn't know that dead hard was abused in those ways you described.
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@Khar Yeah, but from the survivor's perspective, we want to escape just as much as killers want the kills. It's also what survivors have to do... which is to survive.
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@MadLordJack Well seeing how you described how most survivors use it, they seem to abuse the power of the perk. I actually use it to dodge a hit if the killer is behind me and about to hit me (not to greed a pallet, etc.), so I guess it depends on how it's used??
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe Yeah, I only use it to dodge a hit when the killer's right behind me. Many people are commenting how people abuse dead hard so it's actually making a lot more sense to me now how it can be overpowering.
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@Blueberry Hmm that makes sense. Thanks for the response, it's very insightful for me!
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I'm sorry that happened to you. :( I don't see a reason for survivors to be so rude and toxic especially when it's just a game... As a survivor main, I KNOW it doesn't do any good to teabag or click my flashlight bc it doesn't make the person playing killer have a fun time. If it helps though, killers are toxic to me so in a way, I have the same problem as you but vice versa. >_<
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@podkall oh I def will😎😎 and TRUE :|
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@podkall Oh yeah I def have those two perks for some other character but I realized 95% of the tunnelers pick up right away so I only use ds (with other perks) for Nancy! :)
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@umad said:
They're probably taking out their frustration with other toxic players on you.
SAD ㅠ.ㅠ
Well I'm going to continue playing nicely and fairly since I wouldn't want to add to their frustration :(
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@DBD78 said:
It's just strategy. Some survivors gets upset and DC/Hook suicide, or simply loses their cool and starts making mistakes.
Ooohh this also makes sense. I've wanted to dc or kill myself on hook bc of the toxicity but I could never leave my fellow survivor teammates :') I feel like this strategy isn't used by all toxic killers but this sounds like a good reason!
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@podkall said:
@fancynancy utilising perk literally means using any perk it doesn't matter, even walking and suddenly sprintubrsting in someone's face can give some people bad vibes, it's just their mindset
well that's sad :( that's the whole point of them...
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@swager21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2147355#Comment_2147355
when i play adam i get tunneled to death because he has the perk deliverance. also looping the killer for more than 2 minutes will guarantee you a camp.
okay here are my answers to the questions
1 i mean you cant really get ds'd without tunneling
2 mostly exhaustion perks
i know im probably exaggerating this but ive been tunneled and bm'd for all of the reasons that ive listed
Yikes I feel like that's on the killer then since they don't know when to leave a chase to keep gen pressure.
Okay so from what I understand, if the killer doesn't tunnel then bt and ds aren't a problem to the killer bc it's not used at all. Also, I guess that makes sense. I can see how it could be annoying to go for a hit, then the survivor using dead hard but I hardly see that as an excuse to face camp ˘︵˘
Dang, I feel you though... but thanks for your response I really appreciate it!! :)
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@PigsEatBacon said:
They lose so much gen pressure when chasing one survivor for 3 gens, so they camp for that kill sadly. The hook BM and tunneling kind of follows that.
Also hi fellow Nancy main! :p
Dang, yeah that makes sense but that makes the game no fun for me :( So when I play against killers that are actually playing fairly and nicely, I enjoy the game whether or not I die.
YAY!! HELLO TO U TOO NANCY MAIN!! :D nancy for the win!!!!
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@swager21 said:
ill tell you why theyre toxic:
-they probably had a miserable day and cant live without rubbing something in someones face
-youre playing adam (playing him turns you into a tunnel magnet)
-theyre just a douchebag, which is pretty much like the first one but with less reasons
-you did something to them such as:
finish a gen in their face
utilized one of your perks in their face
you teabagged at a pallet
unhooked with bt
ds'd them when they clearly chased you off hook
I'm 100% a Nancy main so it couldn't have been bc I was playing Adam LOL so if they're just a douchebag then... :/
I also couldn't have done any of those things you listed because all I did was run a 3 gen chase without teabagging (bc I don't see the point in doing so and it's plain rude). But thanks for your answer!
I do have some extra questions for you though (out of curiosity). If the killer doesn't tunnel, then wouldn't bt and ds not be a problem? And when you say "utilizing a perk" do you mean sprint burst, lithe, dead hard, or perks like that?
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@podkall said:
They are like "AHA I finally got you after 3 gens, you are so toxic, because you are doing what you are supposed to do for your role, and that's wasting as much as my time as possible while others do gens, you deserve facecamp for your toxicity, also I'm not sure if I can get another hook since it's been half the game's gen requirement in order to get you, so I'm facecamping you"
*hits you* "take that you toxic looper, game player"
Yeah that's about what's going on inside their heads, I can actually relate somewhat, because when I was fresh on this gamec I was so mad when people did gens really fast.. had to flame them in post game how bad they are because they genrush.
But now I know how to counter it or accept it..
LOOL honestly I have tons of respect for you because you learned how to counter/accept it AND you actually understand that survivors have no other choice but to keep a chase going when killers chase them... I feel like toxic killers don't know when to leave a chase in order to keep gen pressure so they blame it on survivors.. oh well... I'm just glad that there are people like you who understand what survivors have to do to escape... I also feel like you're not one to play toxic until the survivor is being toxic (which you then have the total right to be) so props to you!! Also thanks for helping me understand how the killer views things! It helps me to take these actions less personally. :D
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@podkall said:
If you played really good or use really strong perks, it's higher chance they do it.
Ultimately asking why are some people toxic is as same as asking why they bully in school for example...
Also people have habits, before I talk about them, he could also just want the kill, either because it's too late to get another hook or just because they want.
Habits, some people just like to spam m1 at hooked people, regardless if theyre toxic or not, or nod their head.
I nod head when someone teabags me beforehand of downing them for example, I hit toxic survors on hook once than leave them.
I 100% get it when killers do these things when a survivor teabags or is being toxic but hmmm yeah, that makes sense. It just makes me as a survivor main feel like the game is unenjoyable after because I feel like I didn't deserve that excessive toxicity. Like facecamping to get the kill? Okay, yeah I get it. But when they shake their head, then slug me, then shake their head again before hooking me, then facecamp me while hitting me on hook??... :( I feel like/know that I didn't deserve ALL that. Thanks for the answer though!! It actually helps me understand more of the other side's pov! :)