Laluzi
Laluzi
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- Laluzi
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I can sometimes have fun on this map? Sometimes. I would rather have RCPD than Badham, at least.
But it's just such a weird map. I'm not even sure it qualifies as survivor-sided - it just doesn't fit DBD, period. Some killers' powers are magnified on it and some are completely blueballed, more than any other map. Its design magnifies so many edge cases. Boons become pure evil, especially Shadow Step. Pig boxes can kill you even if the Pig is sitting in the corner picking her nose. Trapper wants to kill himself three times more than usual trying to obtain his traps, but once placed, they're stronger than on any other map because he can just go "lol" in the middle of a hallway and you can't do ######### to avoid that mid-chase, and 80% of this map is a hallway. Ranged killers either hate their lives or get free, unmissable shots. M1 killers have to give up half of the map immediately - except Wraith, who is weirdly good at dealing with how ######### big it is? Survivors have to memorize the map layout because half the generators are hiding in Bumfuckistan and their teammates will lose hook states. Ever seen a team of newbies get RCPD? It's like watching a car crash.
It's just a giant unbalanced mess. But the unbalanced stuff isn't all 100% skewed in one direction, so it isn't unequivocally the worst map to get in my eyes. It's the worst if I'm playing certain killers or my teammates are noobs.
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I always let survivors live if someone brings double bloodpoints for everyone. I don't care if I have a rift challenge or an adept; I can do it next game.
As survivor, I tend to save my BPS and cakes for special occasions, because... yeah. They do seem like they're cursed, sometimes.
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It is a real pity that the L4D content came long before legendary skins were a thing. With most of the other characters at the time getting cosplay outfits, it feels like had the option been there, they probably would have gone the next step.
I think you're right about "free" being baked into the contract. Even as recently as this May, all of the L4D stuff was on the free track of the Forsaken rift. Even the charms were all free, and that is not usually how rifts are structured (usually it's a way more even divide between the killer and the survivor's stuff being mixed on each side.) So that does mean low incentive for BHVR to create more stuff.
Love your username, btw. :P
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Teams that can actually present a problem with bodyblocking are quite rare and they rely on stacked oak offerings and sabotage. When you've identified a sabo team, fake a pickup and then start beating up everyone in the area, then make your move when you've got several slugged. Otherwise, you're getting free pressure. These teams can be frustrating, but they're very predictable, they hate doing generators, and they tend to kill themselves better than you can. #HowILearnedToStopWorryingAndLoveTheBodyblock
I also suggest bringing STBFL - it's a perk that's useful on most killers in many situations, so it's not a wasted perk slot on your average team, and it will casually wreck saboteurs and bodyblockers (whether they're stopping hooks or just getting in the way of a chase.)
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717423#Comment_2717423
If killers had a perk that said: "If all survivors are within 24 yards of the exit gate, one of the gloating survivors is prevented from leaving the trial," I would take that perk every time.
If killers had a button to push that unlocked once all gens were done and the gates were opened that just force-ended the match there and then and didn't rely on gloating survivors actually moving a fraction of an inch into the exit threshold, I'd push that button every time.
Considering that neither of those two things will ever happen, I see no reason why Survivors should get a quality of life ability to cut short a gloating killer's slugfest.
Or we could, like, fix both of these things instead of going "I refuse to let the other side have a decent experience because they're mean to me. No QoL should ever happen because some players don't deserve it." No? Because I think that might be a better idea.
Again, people aren't a hivemind. And as someone who plays both sides but prefers killer - gate tbaggers are more common than bleeders, but bleeding out is way more obnoxious when it happens because it lasts twice as long as tbagging at its longest and because there is nothing that can hasten its progression. It brings nothing to the game and there's no reason survivors should not be allowed to die when the game is irrevocably over. "It serves as a karmic balance for BM survivors can do" is bullshit. We shouldn't be enabling any of this, period.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717387#Comment_2717387
Oh they're definitely both absolute gremlin moves.
I just don't see why there shouldn't be some option to bleed out faster.
People keep turning their noses up when it gets brought up, bring up tbagging at the gate like it generates some kind of force field at the door, and call it "just desserts" like it doesn't happen 90% of the time to clueless solos who didn't do anything wrong other than load into a game with an angry little goblin, instead of accepting that they both suck and we should have ways to deal with both built into the game.
Oh, absolutely. My take on the bleed-out thing is that if everyone's down for the count and nobody has an active DS/UB/Soul Guard/No Mither, people should be able to bleed out, which counts as a kill for the killer for bloodpoints and emblem purposes. Can't exit the game when there's still a chance the game can be salvaged, so no teammates killing themselves halfway through the match, but once it's over, you don't have to waste four minutes watching a Pig slowly tbag you because you dropped a pallet on her and had the audacity to remove her bear trap. (I don't think Power Struggle and Deliverance should count simply because they never deactivate and survivors shouldn't be locked in by perks that require the killer to pick someone up.)
There's just no reason that survivors should be forced to endure bleeding out. Killers do at least have the option to push survivors out, as you said, though I'm still not okay with how commonplace gate BM is in this game and the fact that you basically always have to travel to the gates just to get the match to end.
The "just desserts" take really annoys me. I never understood punishment games to begin with. If four randoms treat you like garbage, and you turn around and treat four different randoms like garbage, aren't you doing the same thing the first guys did? Players aren't a hivemind; you can't distribute justice by reaching into the grab bag and being mean to whoever you find.
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@Bwsted said:
It's legal. So, unequivocally not griefing.
If they're bled out in a situation where they can easily get hooked, then it's just a case of the killer wasting their own time. I suggest watching Youtube during the wait. There's nothing worse for a douchebag to try being a douche and nobody caring.
How does something being legal prevent it from being griefing? Those two things have overlap, but they're not the same. Two survivors crouching in bushes all game because they want the killer to disconnect, and give zero ######### about their teammates at any point in the match, are griefing. A player that finds an exploit and abuses it to become invincible or prevent the other side from progressing is griefing. A survivor who decides to punish another survivor and tries to get them killed is griefing. A SWF that won't finish the last gen because they have the items/offerings/coordination to keep dunking on the killer for the next twenty minutes is griefing. A killer who bleeds people out instead of ending the game when they have the ability to is griefing.
If there's no point to do something other than to dick on other people's gameplay, it's griefing. Whether or not it's allowed is merely tangential.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717370#Comment_2717370
You can actually force the survivors out if you can withstand the pain of your own wounded soul wilting under the hurt feelings generated by the CTRL key.
Slugged survivors have no option other than "wait out the whole timer, idiot".
I don't see why they shouldn't be given an option.
There's an easier answer than that. They're both dick moves and screw whoever does them.
And yes, it's griefing. I don't care that the match ends; BHVR's metric for what is or isn't hostage taking isn't synonymous with griefing. Griefing is doing something purely to make the other player's life miserable. Bleeding out? There's only two valid reasons to slug the last survivor to death - if all the hooks in the area are gone and they keep crawling to a dead zone, or if the killer lost them and legitimately have no idea where they went. They can/should also wait 60 seconds from unhook to ensure no DS. Anything more than that is just to spite the player on the ground.
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Throwing teammates are just as bad as DCing teammates. In a sense, they're worse - they do the same thing and aren't punished for it, so they can get away with it. Don't screw over your teammates just because you don't like something about the conditions of the game.
Like, do you even wait to see if the Nurse is good or if she's still learning? The MMR gap between different killers on the same account isn't that wide.
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@Fokus said:
The Epic Games players should have a different icon not the same as console LOL
There's also Windows Store players that can chat, though they're way rarer.
Mostly I'd just like the differentiation to know if I can talk to someone or not.
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I don't understand why this isn't a thing. It's just another one of those gaps that lets SWFs outperform solos by nature of how powerful information is in this game. Solos have no idea what their teammates are running outside the item type in their hand. Does the random who keeps jumping into lockers have Head On or are they just scared? Does the guy who's following and gesturing at you while you have an active RBT have For The People or are they dumb? Who doesn't have BT and isn't the best choice to go for saves? Who has Decisive Strike and won't care if you hook farm them, and you shouldn't run in and go down to protect them off the hook?
You could argue that players would get dodged if they were clearly running newbie perks, but default Dwights-through-Fengs tend to get dodged anyway.
If players getting dodged for running No Mither, Slippery Meat, etc, become that much of an issue, show offerings and items in the lobby (also helps people stack team bloodpoint modifiers) and then show perks in-game, either when near a survivor or as a HUD element.
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I love asking teammates why they killed themselves, or telling a survivor that I didn't want to kill them, or telling my teammates that tbagging the killer was rude and that they were pretty obviously new, and having my whole message look like I'm cussing them out.
Also, we don't talk about Yun-Jin in this game. That's illegal.
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Being asked to confirm every time I start a match would be really obnoxious. I'm done with all my currently obtainable killer challenges and just leave one of my remaining survivor ones up as I go.
Being able to have one for each side up simultaneously is the way to go.
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@Sepex said:
I just can't bring myself to use Ruin or Pop simply because they're too meta and boring.
Personally I'd go with Pain Resonance, Pentimento, Eruption and Jolt. Probably not the most obnoxious but it's what I'd go with.
1 stack on Pent is 30% repair slowdown and the Incapacitated is a nice addition with Eruption.
Pentimento's pointless when you don't have a hex perk. People aren't going to cleanse dull totems.
...Well, maybe you could mindgame them and wear Frosty Eyes...
But I think Pop is important with this build because of the addon - you're going to see which gens need attention on the regular, and both of these killers have good mobility for reaching them. (Wraith's is way better, though, so use him. Seriously slept on addon. Mixtape is a bit awkward.)
There isn't a clear option for the last perk, but you could try Thanatophobia or Dying Light for gen slowdown? They're not ideal, though; Thana is a great option if you're doing Legion, but otherwise you're going to get strangled by CoH. And Dying Light is Dying Light. Oppression works fairly well with Pop and it won't block your gen vision like Eruption will, so it's not a bad idea. Overcharge is... well, it fits the theme, but it's Overcharge. Best not.
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@Crowman said:
That's because too many survivors will throw themselves at the hook when the killer is camping. Means no gens are getting done and the killer is getting free damage.
Is it truly desirable game design to say "you have to spend this game holding M1 and any deviation from the script will get you killed?" I'll do it, but it's about as entertaining as an AFK killer would be and it's not the content I play this game for.
Not to mention that in solo queue - the intended state of the game and the one they actually balance it for - the "don't get destroyed by a facecamping Leatherface" requires all four players to be in sync without having the tools to communicate or persuade, or one player will go and ######### it up for the rest by running for the save and getting added to the carnage, or suiciding on the hook so nobody gets gens done before Leatherface captures his next victim.
I can think of half a dozen reasons to camp off the top of my head, but this kind of camping - where camping is the killer's entire strategy and they never leave the hook once somebody is secured - isn't healthy for the game and it shouldn't be as effective as it is.
@Marc_123 said:
It works.
Because most survs don´t do their gens as they should. And that is totally their fault.
Therefore it is a very solid strategy. Even if it is boring.
Look at the OP's build. It's not AGI/IG/Insidious - it is very effective at buying Bubba enough time when the survivors are doing what they're supposed to be doing. The Deadlock forces some of the survivors to run around and leave mostly-completed gens for barren ones, which will regress with Ruin after Deadlock expires. ToTH + Ruin makes finding and cleansing the Ruin a 50-50 shot and another time diversion survivors can't afford in this scenario - even just Ruin presents this diversion, because you really don't have time for totem hunts in this situation and especially not with Deadlock hindering you.
Solo queue doesn't have the coordination to mitigate this. The only hope is that your teammates are strong loopers and they make their one chase count.
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The challenge has been broken ever since they changed Dead Hard to server validation. I'm guessing that the way the game registers hits got messed up.
Unfortunately you can't finish this tome until they fix it. But when it does go back to normal, it's an easy challenge to get and isn't very particular about the conditions of the dodge.
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I'm not sure Nurse could ever become the dominant pick. Not only does she take massive amounts of practice to utilize effectively, she's a unique kind of stressful to play as well. Make no mistake, she has the highest skill ceiling of any killer of the game and she can breeze through situations most other killers struggle with, but she also has the highest skill floor - a minimal error in a blink or a misread requires another set of blinks to correct instead of being able to naturally adjust from your new position, and it's just not enjoyable to spend a quarter of the game stunned and looking at the ground because she can't move around the map or chase without constantly fatiguing herself. She's also very buggy. Her power is the best in the game, but her QoL is bad and that drives off a lot of players who aren't willing to put up with that in order to be the very best when there's good killers that take less... everything to play.
Like, Blight's power also takes a ton of practice to use effectively, but he's a 115 that's perfectly capable of whacking someone the regular way whenever his power goes fiddly with the environment, and he doesn't blind himself every couple of seconds. His issue that made many players not want to try him was his awful FoV, and when that got fixed, you saw a still-steadily-increasing stream of players flock to him.
Everyone's complaining right now about how Deathslinger's nerfs made him clunky and unenjoyable, but Nurse was the alpha tester for that concept of "deal with a strong power by making it feel awful to play." If Nurse was going to become the only killer in the game, it would have happened already. Girl and her mad power gap ain't exactly new, but her playstyle just isn't universally appealing and it won't ever be unless they give her some big overhauls.
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@oliviaa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715460#Comment_2715460
maybe if you spent the time u spent on thinking that i made this post to bait whiny killers on reading the constructive conversations with other ppl i've had under this, u would recognize that it wasnt bait! <3
if i want to see killer tears i'd just scroll through this forum for 2 minutes and see plenty. take ur 9,000 posts somewhere else💖
Yeah, having done both, I find it hard to believe you want to have a constructive talk with anyone when this is how you engage with people.
It doesn't really come across as good faith, or anything other than mocking from atop a high horse, really. Like, this constant characterizing of killers as whiny immediately makes it clear you're not here to help people, you're here to crap on them. Addendum, all the "just get better" comments. There is far too much hostility here for this to be a helpful discussion.
You're not wrong that this forum contains a lot of whining, but you are wrong that it needed another thinly veiled powder keg. Nothing you say in the original post is incorrect, but it doesn't really address the reason people get upset about this issue, either. Yes, everyone makes mistakes in their gameplay. People screw up constantly and this is true on both sides. Because it's true on both sides, it shouldn't be the case that survivor players have more ability to recover from their mistakes than the killer does, and yet this is something I have noticed time and time again as I switch between roles - a good chunk of the team needs to screw up one after the other in order to swing the balance of the game, but the killer just needs to commit to one bad chase, lose someone, or check the wrong part of the map and they just cannot recover in that game. One survivor messing up doesn't matter that much in most situations. The killer, however, can't keep up with the cascade effects of one mistake until the survivors make several or one serious enough mistake in return. This makes playing killer stressful in a way that survivor isn't; there is nobody else to bail out your mistakes or pick up your slack, and when you're playing at levels where your opponents run things skillfully, you are under immense pressure to perform absolutely perfectly at every instant of the game because you cannot bank on those mistakes happening. At all times you are juggling everything four players are doing and whether or not it is/isn't feasible/necessary/too costly to stop them, and that can feel absolutely insurmountable against a coordinated team with strong resources.
Like, say I'm chasing the first survivor I found. It's taking too long and at this rate, I know I'm not going to catch them before 3 gens pop - they're too good and they have too much to work with, as it's the start of the game and all pallets are still standing. Except I don't actually know where anyone else is. If I abandon chase and check the nearest potential gen, I might find someone else. Is that player as good as this one? I don't know any of these survivors yet and I haven't gauged their skill levels or playstyles. I don't know if this guy will predrop or if they'll greed, if they'll loop tightly, if they'll take me away from this gen so someone else takes over, or if they'll take me all over the map and help me interrupt other survivors. Will they try to commit to the gen and give me a free hit, allowing me to start this very late chase on a good leg, or are they going to run early and take me to a structure? If they're as good as player #1 and they run early, I'll be in a worse position than I am now chasing the first guy, because I've already made some headway and gotten a pallet or two, a health state, maybe even their exhaustion perk. A strong survivor in a fresh area could eat up another minute and a half to down and I cannot afford that. Or worse, what if there's nobody at the gen that I check? What if there is somebody at the gen, but they're hiding and I don't find them within ~10 seconds? I don't have the time to search just like I didn't have the time to complete the chase. I can only reach one more gen before the point where gens pop. Next gen, rinse and repeat the questionnaire on how the total mystery survivor will perform and act. And if I guess wrong again at the gens, now I've lost the one person I was in the process of chasing, they're already healing up, and I lose all three gens anyway.
So do I keep chasing the survivor? If I do, it's not because she clicked her flashlight and my dumb killer ego couldn't let that go. It's because I'm gambling that since everyone else in the lobby had flashy cosmetics too, they are confident in themselves, they're calling me out if they're a SWF and I can't assume I can catch anyone off guard, and I'm putting all my chips in this because only a survivor making a mistake will stop the 3-gen-pop at this point and I can't bank on that. This way I can guarantee a down in the visible future and clear out some strong tiles that will become issues later, since all the gens being done have not been near this chase and I may be able to squeeze a 3-gen out of this.
So it goes.
Realizing you're making the wrong play doesn't immediately light the path to the correct course of action. Sometimes your only options are to double down or flip a coin and hope it lands heads. There's none of that downtime where you're sitting on a gen watching your teammate get chased in the distance. You're always in the pilot seat and so often it's not even a "there is no way I can recover from this", you can't even pinpoint what you even could have done to salvage things, because there was just too much working in the other team's favor from the start. And I've gotten that as survivor, too, but it was always spread across four people. Very rarely was there a situation I could solely call my fault, or that I was the only person who could have changed things that match. So as far as advice goes, "lol do better" is about as helpful as "just don't get caught lmao." It's self-evident and people are already trying to do that.
I don't have an issue with survivors. I have an issue with the game balance. I have an issue with people who defend particularly egregious bits of bad balance. And I also have an issue with BMers, because I have no patience for people who try to rile up others for their own amusement and self-aggrandizement. And that might include this thread? Or it might not. I'm not quite sure why you made this, but I don't really get the best vibes off your posts here.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715447#Comment_2715447
I don't care how weedy her arms are, man, i'd take the Hag raking me with her big dumb claws over a big piece of hot metal being swung into my head.
I know, but the question is damage, not pain. I wouldn't really want Hag clawing up my head, either. Any headshot's going to wreck you. I'm thinking, like... what's worse, Hag ripping your arm open or Plague whacking you with the censer? Plague's damage comes from turning you into a retching bubonic cripple; her weapon itself isn't that deadly. Ow, yes, killy, no.
Oh, Blight's cane is another contender. It's a spindly wooden stick with a hooked but still blunt metal tip. If the guy didn't have entity coke flowing through his veins, getting whacked with this thing probably wouldn't do much to you.
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Probably Hag's claws. They really don't look very sharp and I doubt they're as good as knives would be for causing deep, meaningful cuts.
I'm torn on Plague's incense burner. I don't think it would do very much damage - it's a small, decorative flail wielded by someone with zero martial training and unremarkable physical strength - but it's hot metal and that'll hurt like hell.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
After the mori nerf I would be fine if the ebony was made a Very Rare offering instead. Like at best it saves the time it takes to walk to a hook x3.
The mori animation can be longer than hooking the player. Even at maximum distance, you're not saving much time unless you intend to walk back the way you came afterwards.
It can be better than that, though. Moris have the following benefits over hooking a player:
Immunity to DS/Power Struggle (which can't be avoided when the conditions are met)
Immunity to teammates performing saves (which can be easily avoided)
Immunity to a lack of nearby hooks.
Saves a hook from being destroyed (important if in a relevant area, meaningless otherwise.)
Moris also have the following downsides compared to hooking a player:
-Hook perks are not triggered - BBQ, Pop, Pain Resonance, etc.
-No ability to cancel the action (analogous to dropping the player to interrupt someone else, or hitting while carrying a body)
All of these can be helpful, but they're also incredibly situational. Pyramid Head's built-in mori is good because it's instant. It's always faster than a hook and so it's always better than a hook, bar perks - you don't get cases where survivors run through you and open a gate or pop a gen while you're in the middle of sawing one of their friends' faces off. Regular moris don't bring a lot to the table. The best they do is counter survivor perks that allow them to self-save, but that value hinges on the survivor having the perk, you not triggering it earlier, and you triggering it now. If you bring a mori and your intention is to second-hook tunnel, you will probably consistently succeed in that. Otherwise, it's going to be a cosmetic that might come in handy once every few dozen matches.
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715359#Comment_2715359
Making BPS Iri would just be super annoying when a killer has good addons.
I'd rather have them than moris. At least BPS give me my money back and I'll actually use them.
But purple is fine too. The issue is that green offerings are stupidly hard to get and that's only going to get worse over time, and there's some useful green offerings that you can't find enough of.
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Hm. It strikes me that there's barely anything in the iri rarity tier as it is. Bouquets are gone, splinters are gone, moris and keys are dead items. Survivors have Brand New Parts, Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringes, Odd Bulbs (which suck), and Skeleton Keys (which suck). Killers have Ebony Moris (which suck) and their two iri addons, which may or may not suck. The whole rarity system could use look at - for instance, any offering in the green rarity tier is way rarer than it's theoretically meant to be because green is so bloated with maps, so Sacrificial Wards, Bloody Party Streamers, Bound Envelopes, and less missed stuff like Moldy Oak and Black Salt Statuettes are far rarer than intended. And there's a disproportionate amount of useless stuff in the purple tier too - it's not just moris being clutter, you've also got Cut Coins and Murky Reagents and Shrouds of Binding and Vigo's Lips. I honestly avoid purple or iri mystery gifts because they're so likely to give me something I don't want.
I think making Sacrificial Wards purple and Bloody Party Streamers iridescent would increase the odds of these slots containing things that you want while also increasing the supply of desired items.
Moris themselves - I think they might be on their way out? They are definitely undeserving of their rarity and price tag now, but there's been dev talk of a new baked-in mechanic to handle moris and make them something the killer can earn over the course of the match, so that might see the offerings put out to pasture after their long downwards hobble. But if mori items are to remain a thing in the bloodweb, I think I'd rather see the current Ivory and Cypress moris nuked and the remaining Ebony mori to cover the functions of both Ebony and Cypress - can kill all 4, and can kill last survivor regardless of hook state. Moris barely have any functionality in their current state, just cosmetics and a few edge cases where they might do something, so I'd be fine with that item as a green or purple. Green if you're okay with rarely seeing them, which a lot of players would be; purple to toss a largely useless item into a category that has a lot of largely useless items for their steep price, and that rolls back to the original issues of moris not being worth the bloodpoints.
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I thought it was someone crouching and placing their hand on the ground. Now I can't unsee that ear. My mind has been expanded.
I like how virtually none of us could tell what it was. Hm...
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/301676/killer-camping-solution
Tried and exploited to the point of being removed permanently.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714492#Comment_2714492
It has been tried repeatedly...It got abused no matter what the developers did to it.
The devs have given up on any baseline anti camp due to survivors finding ways to abuse it every time they tried.
Were variations tested? I know that when it was first tested, survivors would loop the killer in tiles around the hook, but I don't know of further adjustments to the test or what they might have been, and that's something I'm pretty interested in.
I'm not surprised it always got gamed, though. One-size-fits-all solutions are extremely difficult and I couldn't think of any set of rules that would have fixed all the problems I identified, which I'm sure isn't the broad spectrum of possible problems that could arise. Either you cover everything and punish players that aren't actually doing problem behavior, or you leave loopholes.
Probably why they're so fond of bandaid perk solutions...
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Trapper's the most iconic. He's the guy on the cover, he's the guy in the intro videos, he's the guy in the tutorial, he's the first in the loadout. Trapper's DBD's man.
I adore Wraith, but I don't think he makes half as good a mascot. His power design is spooky, but his mask... tends to default to a bit of a silly expression? He often looks spooked, where Trapper is unequivocally menacing.
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@Smuk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715139#Comment_2715139
according to statistics myers is not over performing.
So if myers manages to drop a mori in 1-2 minutes is a whole new problem. But in equal time frame 3gens done is absolutely balanced?
If this addon would be so broken, you would see way more of them in game.
It's a purple. Most games don't have it and players don't have enough of them to play them every game. I took Myers from P50 to P250 recently and specifically angling the bloodweb for them, I got ~8-9 pieces and ~6-7 tufts/tombstones on average every 1-50, which is like 1.5m or 2m bloodpoints. Also, Myers' kill rate was actually pretty decent if not on the high side, iirc, while virtually every tier list places him bottom-tier and he's not even that easy or intuitive of a killer for newbies to pick up and perform well with, so... obviously something is up there.
In general, stats don't make for good arguments. Nurse is trash and Pig is god-tier, remember?
As for 3 gens in 80 seconds, totally different issue and not one I feel like getting into. Suffice to say I agree that's a mess and a failure of map design, but "delete a survivor" isn't the solution; it just swings the pendulum far on the other side.
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I'm in a weird position with Myers. On the one hand, his base strength is godawful in the current state of the game and he really needs help. On the other, I don't like most of the killer reworks we've had so far and I'm afraid of what they'll do, especially when you look at Freddy. Myers isn't strong, but he's very faithful to the feel of the character. Freddy was the same and look at him now - generic, generic, generic. And what Myers does do right are create a variety of viable, effective, different alternative playstyles with his addons. That uncertainty is so crucial to the feeling of versing Myers in DBD and I don't want to lose that, ever. But if you look at his addons, he has a lot of useless stuff, one blatantly overpowered one, and two highly controversial iris I want to keep but are way stronger than the more recent philosophy of cautious, situational addons allows for. I don't have faith he'd get a true addon pass and actually keep the important stuff.
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@Smuk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714781#Comment_2714781
So what?
This is honestly BS argument.
Whats next? Survivors that want to participate in chases should gather in killer shack?
I also dont like it, when I play vanity mirror myers, and spine chill informs them that im looking at them through walls.
I think SC is incredibly broken and it deserves nerf
You're gonna have to explain to me why it's BS if you want me to accept that, because it seems pretty solid to me. Judith's Tombstone, imo, is balanced. It's a very weird addon by modern standards, and I do agree that it doesn't create very fun or engaging games, but the time constraint and potential for outplay is fair. Good survivors will complete gens before Mike gets his T3, or he'll get it so late that only one or two fall while others finish the last gens and get out the gates. Teams with weak links will die, as they do in most games. Tombstone Piece is not balanced. Nothing else in the current game is designed to give you a kill a minute or two into the game; instant moris have been gone for most of DBD's lifetime and it is not normal to be able to one-tap someone out of the game right then and there. Even if you do a basement Bubba game, you've got to wait 2 more minutes to get your kill out of your hook, and survivors can do 3-4 gens in that time. TP Myers just loses his T3 and gets right back to work, no time wasted. The shift from 4 survivors to 3 survivors is absolutely critical in this game. 4 survivors, the killer struggles to keep up with survivor progress. 3 survivors, the survivors struggle to keep up with killer progress and they'll only finish gens if they got enough stuff done in the 4-survivor stage for their combined skill to pull through.
You've played DBD before. If someone dies at 4 gens, the survivors are dead meat. That's Tombstone Piece. That's the addon. That's what it does, and you get another instant kill later if that wasn't good enough. Even with Rancor, if I never saw the survivor before the end... they still had the whole match to play, and it honestly doesn't matter that much if I get a kill at this stage of the game because the survivors don't need that player anymore. I could have just as easily gotten that kill by hooking and facecamping that survivor, which doesn't even have an opportunity cost at this point.
I have no idea what your shack situation is trying to be analogous with, so I can't comment?
Spine Chill's a separate argument. It's annoying - I play enough Wraith to groan at the perk - but it does have three mitigating factors, imo. One is that a skilled survivor will be swiveling constantly unless they confirm the killer is one with a constant TR without any silencing perks, so outside of an indoor map, you'll often be seen coming anyway. Two is that when the survivor doesn't know where you're coming from - more likely on an indoor map - the Spine Chill rush is as liable to take them into you as it is to get them away, so long as you don't always approach from the most obvious angle. Three is that Spine Chill survivors are hella reliant on the perk and don't check their surroundings when it's not lit up, so strafing is very effective for reaching them. (Vanity Mirror isn't as singleminded as Scratched Mirror, either - if there's a survivor that keeps seeing you coming, you can deal with them as easily as any other T2 Myers can. The same situation in perma T1, you're kinda screwed. I do agree that Myers and Ghostface get screwed unusually hard by the perk, because their powers rely on being unnoticed and Ghostface especially can't do anything if the survivor sees him. That's a bad interaction. Dunno if I'd call it incredibly broken, but it counters those two killers too much. It would be a more of a problem if it were more common.)
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@Smuk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714774#Comment_2714774
it takes sh*t loads of time to do all the stalking. Also each survivor have X amount od stalk feed, so with the gen rush + 3x engaging chase with obsession for play with your food….
I honestly think its not OP or broken.
But then the perk rancor which after gens done makes obsession expossed + mori; could be same issue as you mentioned.
Also the fact that with rancor I
achieved exactly that…felt sorry for Meg there
Judith's Tombstone takes ages to set up. Tombstone Piece doesn't. You have to stalk 1.75 survivors and then you get a mori, as opposed to Judith's + Tuft (the only real way to run it) taking 3 full survivors, which usually requires some lengthy runarounds and doesn't let you coast off of the one stupid guy alone.
The difference between Piece and Rancor is that Rancor gives you the kill at the end of the game. Tombstone lets you stalk a clueless Meg, then turn around, find Elodie on another gen, and take her out of the game. A dead survivor at 4 gens is way more impactful than a dead survivor at 0 gens.
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Because they want to be good without actually being good at the game, and because it's easier to get away with than obvious hacks (though with the current state of the cheating issue, you can get away with flying Myers if you want to - they might get on your pile of in-game reports in a month if somebody sent footage via the support website, and not a moment before. It's a nightmare.)
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While I kind of like them (obnoxious in excess, but the occasional one makes Myers actually frightening, not just the white staring man who sounds like a Banjo Kazooie character when bonked with a pallet), Tombstone addons are a relic of DBD design back when no-hook-moris were a thing. We're not ever getting anything on that level again and addon design has generally been moving in a very cautious and tame direction. I suspect that they only still exist because Myers hasn't gotten a balance pass yet and because there's an achievement that relies on them.
Getting headpops on Pig typically depends on playstyle. If you hound survivors away from boxes and force them to travel further to where they need to go, you increase the odds of headpops. They don't come for free unless survivors don't use their time right or don't know what the beepy head thing does.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714637#Comment_2714637
Nah I said the mean word for poop very bad.
Non-optional chat filters are the bane of my forum existence. Let me say #########.
It didn't let me say #########. It never does. ._.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
Very boring to play wish she got the Freddy rework treatment to not make her resident sleeper
Giving someone the Freddy treatment seems to be precisely the way to make someone the resident sleeper. How often do you have a fun game against Freddy? He's one of the most boring killers in the game in his current state, both to play and to verse. I find Hag really engaging to verse because I have to think about what I'm doing and weigh the risk-reward of a course of action (as well as watch where her traps are and trigger them when she's busy.) Any frustration I get against her comes from my teammates not being on the same page, or when I get a super campy Hag that just wants to spam 8 traps around every hook instead of building a net because that's just boring.
@AnneBonny said:
she is a killer in the game
Okay, this made me chuckle. Have a like.
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@SayianDlight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714531#Comment_2714531
ok. But about straight lines. how to play on Midwich Elementary school, The Game, Azarov's Resting Place and more against Trickster? Where there are a lot of straight ways and small amount of buildings that are good for loops? Obviously The Game is very, very bad to play on, but the Trickster makes it much harder to play than any other killers
Midwich - weave in and out of the classrooms. Favor the ones with high wall obstructions over the low wall ones and run in circles or figure 8s until he stops trying to throw knives. Stay away from the staircase that contains the basement. It's dangerous when you get caught due to the long straight hallways, and he can do a lot of damage there, but him being a 110 on it hurts him too because it takes him ages to get from one floor to the other.
Azarov's is one of his worse maps. No traversal speed on a huge and long map, very strong tile area in the middle to confound him, and a building, a vehicle, and a jungle gym on each end. All you need to do is make sure a gen gets completed on both sides early on so that he can't 3-gen you and he's suffering on this one.
The Game is... mostly a bad map for him. He doesn't like indoor maps in general; ranged killers rarely do. The bottom floor is better than the top floor to stymie him. Keep going around walls and slow him down via forcing him to M1 you. Use the frequent map obstructions when you're caught in a more open area - the middle upper floor has lots of tall stacks and boxes that he can't throw through. Don't bother with the pallets unless they're god pallets (aka ones he has to break to pass) or he's right behind you and you can stun him, because this is the one part of the Game that he actually likes; the upstairs loops and some of the downstairs ones are free hits for him if you try to run them when he isn't out of knives.
(If you want to see a killer that makes The Game a dangerous map, look to the Hag or Nurse. These guys turn the map's strengths into weaknesses and will generally mess anyone up extra hard. However, you won't see them much in low MMR because they're not intuitive to play. That said, you're a little mistaken about the game being bad to play on; the Game is one of the strongest maps for survivors. The holy trifecta is the Game, Haddonfield, and Springwood. The Game's deal is that it has so many safe pallets that are chainable, loopable, and unmindgamable (those terms in order - you can go from one to the next while the killer is breaking the pallet, you can run around the pallets for a few times to force them rather than needing to drop them when the killer is on your tail, and ones where the killer can't trick you by changing direction or walking backwards), so most killers can be ran for ages and can't really catch people until they break most of those pallets, by which time the generators should be done. Most killers hate being sent there and there's only a few that can work it; Trickster's not really one of them, though he has some advantages over a standard M1 killer like Trapper or Pig.)
The scariest maps against Trickster are the big empty Coldwind ones, Ormond, and Shelter Woods, in my opinion. Lots of open spaces, low loops, and lack of tiles; that's where he excels. Big maps, excessive jungle gyms, round structures, and hallways with lots of turns and offshoots cause him to struggle.
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Trickster cries when faced with a jungle gym, shack, or a hallway with turns in it. When you hear his lullaby, move to an area that he can't knife spam you. If you sit on a gen in the middle of a cornfield, or you run in a straight line out in the open, he's going to turn you into a pincushion. Put some walls between you and him. If you are caught in the open, try juking from side to side as you run to cover to buy yourself a little more time. But do run to cover is what I'm saying. Hell, even running in circles around a big rock gives him trouble when every other killer in the game would give negative shits about the situation.
He's like Wraith in that he's a god against players who don't know how to play the game yet, but falls off hard against players with game knowledge. So just... learn how to play against him. Don't use low loops and don't run in straight lines. High walls are your friend.
Also, you don't get slowed down in laceration? You get a speed boost when you're injured, otherwise, killer hits do nothing to slow you unless it's Nemesis's tentacle (it's barely noticeable) or I think Blight's rush with a rare addon.
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@Pizzasauce said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714502#Comment_2714502
I'm not sure. I guess to make those aware that when they're t-bagging they're not just hurting themselves, they're hurting their whole team. I don’t know. Maybe to vent out my frustration? Is that not allowed?
The people that play to make you tilted will be pleased to know it's working. They don't care about other players - or other players outside their SWF, depending. If they did, they wouldn't act the way they do. The fate of the randoms in the vent game after a bully game doesn't matter to them; most of them would think it was funny or pathetic and continue to trash-talk the killer for it.
Best you can do is make the game a living hell for BMers while playing normally against people who haven't done anything to provoke you yet. Playing hardball against everyone increases the toxicity level by contributing to the 'everyone who plays the side I'm not playing is a massive buttrag' factor.
I hate tbaggers and clickers too, but is any given instance of it something that bugs you for longer than it takes for the next match to start? Or is it just how common it seems to be?
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The really obnoxious part of grab validation is when the game pauses for a second or two to go "huh, did this grab or did this swing? I just don't know!" while the survivor is still fleeing, and then finally decides "nah, not this time" and converts your grab into a swing after the survivor is nowhere near the vault anymore.
Enraging.
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Hmm. I'm not opposed to testing this one out; having it disappear when a chase starts fixes the main exploit that comes hand-in-hand with this concept. And the 10 second grace period doesn't matter too much if you're on your way away from the hook and just had to complete some errands in the area first, provided it also goes away if you leave the area. But I do see some issues.
-24m is a bit generous, especially towards the end of the game where everything of interest can be clumped in a small area. If you have a hook in a 3-gen, or a hook near a gate, you'd easily trigger this during patrolling. (And I can't say I agree with penalizing endgame camping because there's literally nothing else for the killer to do at that point.)
-It's not uncommon to have a situation where a killer suspects or knows a survivor is in the area, but doesn't know where exactly they are. In this system, the killer is punished for staying to ferret the hiding player out, but leaving immediately gives the team a free save, which also punishes them. However, this concept wouldn't work by linking the turn-off condition to whether a survivor is in the radius either, because that can be used as a source of information in and of itself.
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But Caws of Death is also wordplay. Cause of death, anyone?
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Merry Christmas to you too, man.
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This thread could be referring to a few situations and I'm not sure which one it is.
If it's a normal pickup where someone jumps out of a locker and gets the blind, it's a rare and funny play that you can react to once you expect it. If it's a locker grab where you don't properly check your surroundings and someone swoops in for the blind, it's your fault, same as any other pickup where someone was poised to get the blind. If it's a locker grab where it's impossible to chase away the player that will get the flashlight save (certain lockers beneath two-story platforms, double lockers with two flashlight users inside), it's cheap and shouldn't exist.
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If you want to give present games, play to two-hook survivors, don't tunnel, and then let everyone live at the end if you would have won the game.
I've tried lots of different things, and this is the one people seem to dislike the least. I've still had... three? people whine at me for not killing them, but overall this seems to get highly positive results. Farming from the start pisses off people who want to play the game, people hate being slugged for long periods of time, and people hate being denied points from lack of hooks or chases if you commit to never downing anyone or playing super memey games.
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@wewantbetterfun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714136#Comment_2714136
survivors mainly only complain about noed and not many other perks, killers complain about many survivor perks because they are mostly all busted, should BT allow a survivor to body block for 12 seconds and then complain about tunneling with or without ds? no, remove collision, should Iron will totally stops survivors from breathing? most definitely a bug that they totally can't fix but it's justified, is unbreakable a pain in the ass? totally, 1 unbreakable can ruin the whole match for killer, CoH range is busted and like mclean said it should be 16 meters and not 24.
I'm not saying these perks aren't strong. I'd argue that some of them need adjustments and some of them don't. But that's not the question I was answering. Survivors complain about more perks than NOED just like killers complain about more perks than Dead Hard, and nerfing either of those isn't going to fix all the emergent issues with the game or stop people from complaining about things that hurt them in their matches. It didn't stop when Undying got nerfed, it didn't stop when DS got nerfed, it didn't stop when Ruin got overhauled, it didn't stop when keys got nerfed, it didn't stop when moris got nerfed, it didn't stop when BNP got nerfed, it didn't stop when instaheals got nerfed, it didn't stop when infinites got nerfed. Why would it stop now?
The idea that removing Dead Hard would fix the issues with this game and force seemingly dependent survivors to git gud is wrong. Skilled survivors, the ones who cause the most trouble with the perk, can play fine without Dead Hard. They just use it to reliably extend the amount of time they can safely run the killer. The ones who know all tiles, can accurately gauge how far the killer is behind them, and know exactly how much distance they have to work with can run you like a champion without exhaustion perks. Adding in an exhaustion perk just adds to the time they can stall you, and DH is currently the dominant strategy.
I don't like the current state of Dead Hard and think something needs to give, but I'm not naive enough to think this will be the end of killer issues with survivor gameplay, or that the survivors that give me trouble with Dead Hard are helpless without the perk.
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@wewantbetterfun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714118#Comment_2714118
okay let's say DH is nerfed, what would killers complain next? still DS? killers always did, but what else? there's the usual swf complains and genrush, but is there actually many other perks killers complain? not that much.
Circle of Healing? Iron Will? Borrowed Time? Unbreakable? DS, even though it's been nerfed to size and it's generally your fault if you trigger it?
Nothing will ever cause either side to stop complaining about the perks and tactics the other side uses most.
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I really like Hag and wish we had more killers whose playstyle and counterplay differed drastically from the norm. Looping should not be the end-all-be-all of what DBD is or aspires to be and Trapper and Hag reside in their own setup, strategy-and-information-game niche - it's just that Hag is generally way better at what she does than Trapper.
The only issue I see with Hag and fun is the ease at which she camps and either tunnels or forces hook trades. Crouching to and away from her hook traps gives her extra time to run back to the scene, especially if she spammed them, and oftentimes it seems like a trap placed too close to the hook will trigger after the unhooking animation even if both players are holding the crouch button.
I'm unsure how to balance this, though, because hard removing Hag's ability to trap or teleport anywhere near a hook absolutely guts her and I don't want that at all. It can't be just an occupied hook, because her showing up 0.1 seconds after an unhook is still crazy dangerous and the norm if she wants to use perks like Devour or MYC, but if it's any hook, her ability to place traps at relevant points gets nuked.
I'm also not sure how well Hag even holds up if you remove her ability to pressure hooks - I do fine without using it in most games as her, but I'm not top MMR.
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Eh. As obnoxious as Dead Hard is, I don't think you're entirely right here. The players that use it to extend loops are skilled and Dead Hard is an expression of... not necessarily skill in and of itself, but game knowledge. Take away Dead Hard and they'll greed less - the situations in which they use Dead Hard to extend loops, they'll no longer play as if they have Dead Hard and instead give you the pallet a circuit earlier. 4x Dead Hard can be incredibly tedious to face, especially now that it can be used reactively instead of proactively, but survivors putting themselves into situations where they can E to reach the pallet aren't braindead, they're doing it because they know they have Dead Hard and can get away with running loops like that.
It's the players who use it as a get out of jail free card, and the players who use it to make ballsy plays in the killer's face, that'll be screwed without it.
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2713369#Comment_2713369
Cheryl is supposed to look worn down tho. She isn't a happy peppy cheerleader shes a burntout kid who can't sleep because of nightmares that are slowly creeping into her waking life.
Taking that away from her to make her genericly pretty kinda throws out a good chunk of what makes Cheryl such a beloved character.
This. While the Quentin makeover did wonders for his gremlin nature, and I don't disagree that he needed a touch-up, it completely erased every semblance of his supposedly defining feature - his forced sleeplessness and his victimization by Freddy. Now he looks like a standard prettyboy.
I don't want to see that happen to Cheryl. It's not like Cheryl looks remotely bad as she is.
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@StarLost said:
Honestly, Overcome and Shadowstep are also very powerful under the right conditions. The issue isn't that they are weak - it's that there are several survivor perks which are so powerful that not using them is essentially playing the game wrong. CoH is one of these.
The problem is that boons can be essentially permanent (or take too much time for the killer to remove temporarily) and can cover more than half of a map, as the effect projects through floors.
Boons as a whole need to be reworked and then maybe the effects can be tweaked if they are too weak. They are just impossible to balance right now.
This is nigh on exactly what I was going to say. While most issues with boons can be fixed by nerfing CoH into something more reasonable, having locational teamwide survivor perks that the killer can't permanently negate or even earn a meaningful reprieve from is a design issue that will continue to crop up as future boons are designed, and you can already see it with the non-OP boons, particularly Shadowstep. (While it can happen with a very dedicated SWF using an Exponential setup plus a map offering, Exponential just isn't a very good mechanic to tie to a location, which is why it's not so strong - unlike heals, and also unlike scratch marks.) CoH is the obvious example because it doesn't that much matter where it's placed or what map it's on, and it's always very powerful. But Shadowstep on an indoor map, or a two-story map, or in the upper floor of a main building, can be absolutely nasty and there isn't any way to deal with it other than to stomp it again and again, which can be profoundly out of the way with certain totem spawns and project over a wide area (upper floor Ironworks, upper floor Thompson House, or RCPD library are some examples of this.)
Gutting CoH alone would fix most issues with boons for now, but it's just waiting for the next boon to cause another tsunami, because as they stand, boons are teamwide perks for the price of one that do not have counterplay outside killing the perk holder.
My big issue with boons is that the ability to snuff them implies that their strength level is such that the killer is supposed to be able to stop them... but in practice, this is a huge waste of time and the boon goes back up ASAP when you leave the area anyway. They were given countermeasures to balance out their strength, but the countermeasure isn't feasible when the killer's time and the survivors' time is treated realistically.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2713449#Comment_2713449
Of course i want high MMR because im competitive and only like to play at the highest level
so, yeah...I will!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2713451#Comment_2713451
Your casual thats cool so its not that serious but there are people that are competitive and you cant tell them not to be or its "not that serious"
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2713460#Comment_2713460
Well obviously it doesnt pertain to you then. Also you are the minority and im talking about the majority.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2713464#Comment_2713464
OP? lol whatever
I didnt say everyone should suffer but survivors have a bad rep so you cant blame me for feeling and or thinking this way. Hate was never written by me so i dont know what your talking about
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2713480#Comment_2713480
No, of course i do but you were generalizing something that varies person to person so i had to correct you!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2713502#Comment_2713502
There you go, finally someone who gets it!
-"Screw survivor, straight up, death to you all, all day!"
-"lol Whatever man dont project the negativities and toxicities of survivor on me! I just play but survivors legit try to make people feel bad, anyway i often get messeged for killing survivors bc they're salty so i dont wanna hear none of what your saying"
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-"Hate was never written by me"
Yeah, sure. You're very reasonable and even-keel when it comes to this subject. Also, OP means original poster in this context, not overpowered.
My point is that this attitude really doesn't help with DBD's atmosphere. I understand where the exhaustion with survivor antics comes from - of course I do, it's so common to get treated like crap for no reason. But I do blame people for deciding that means they should be mean to every player forever because of it, or even be proud of being a hardass like you're touting with this thread, because it so often goes hand in hand with playing bully games back and that's just stooping to the same level. I don't forgive losing that perspective because it's self-evident and you have to willfully choose to ignore it. Be a dick to dicks, but being a dick to random people minding their own business just spreads the hate around and increases the resentment between both teams, and also increases the odds that you'll be met with asswipes in future games.
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Pig. How can you not love that angy squeak?