Laluzi
Laluzi
About
- Username
- Laluzi
- Joined
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Comments
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@Yatol said:
maybe a giant bush or something that can be dropped from offerings
The thought of a bush moving around instantly charms me. Yes please.
The only thing that could be better than that would be a cardboard box.
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For killer: Dead Hard, Iron Will, Circle of Healing
Self-explanatory. Praise be to the sea-goat that Adiris has my back with the last one.
For survivor: NOED, Third Seal, Tinkerer
Third Seal is a bit of a weird one, but I play solo and if that thing stays up, I'm dying on first hook. Blindness is very much a pub stomper mechanic, and, well, I'm in the pubs.
Pain Resonance is an honorable mention for how many times I've had teammates hook trade at a scourge hook and nuke my gen into oblivion.
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@psionic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2708749#Comment_2708749
Actually, survivors have a notification event when they try to blind a killer with lightborn...
Is that only if you would have gotten the full stun, or any time you use the flashlight? I did notice it when I Blast Mined a Billy recently, but at the same time, I'm always kind of shocked how long it takes for survivors to clue in that I'm using Lightborn when I bring it, and acting like you're afraid of the flashlights seems pretty effective in prolonging the ruse. OTOH, I only bring it if it's a full flashlight lobby (at that point it's just a QoL perk and a shield against Shenanigans), so there might be a bit of confirmation bias there - those survivors really want to use their flashlights.
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Very few people complain that Lightborn is unfair; people just say it's a bad perk and isn't worth running, while others say it's great.
The only people that actually have a problem with Lightborn are bully SWFs whose main goal in the match is to blind and tech the killer, because yeah, it effortlessly cockblocks what they set out to do and they can't have their version of fun. I've yet to meet anyone else who cares, because blinding is such a situational thing and matches go just fine without it.
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@BreadTube said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2708509#Comment_2708509
On maps like the game with 20 God pallets that's possible, but you're telling me that entire chase a killer couldn't be bothered to snuff the boon?
How are people taking more that, at best, 10s to find boons as killer? If a killer is wasting that much time to go all the way across the map to snuff a boon, then I'd say the boon isn't the problem.
Because CoH has a 24m radius and it's not immediately apparent where it is? Because multiple floors? Because stopping to snuff the boon mid-chase gives the survivor time to reach another loop if not get away from you entirely, though it's often the best option you have?
Again: how in the hell are you finding totems in less than 10 seconds? Answer this question. No, seriously. Answer it. Maps. Are. Big. It takes time to walk around a map. I'm a killer doing killer things. I may have seen some dull totems, and I know where totems spawn on this map, but I probably haven't seen all of them so there's still some up-in-the-air for where they are. A boon notification goes off somewhere on the map. Explain to me how I am supposed to get to the correct totem within 10 seconds. You can even say for argument's sake that I know exactly where all five dull totems are - because even then, I am not finding that boon in 10 seconds.
Survivors generally aren't going to boon in your terror radius. That automatically means the boon is at least 7s away from you, assuming a crow's-eye path in the absolute minimum distance and a 115 killer. 7s if there's no walls and you're actually psychic, and it's all uphill from there.
Unless your argument is that I'm supposed to be playing Blight (even then, pushing it) or Demo/Mint Rag Hag with portals/traps on every totem, you are not setting reasonable goalposts and I'm not going to continue engaging with you until you base an argument for the same game that I'm playing.
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@BreadTube said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2708476#Comment_2708476
The problem is clear here then, killers are spending way too much time trying to snuff a boon & not fit boon snuffing organically into their matches.
Literally the argument from killers has constantly been "I'll only snuff the boon if I stumble across it during play; anything else is a waste of time for too little return."
This has been the answer all along and you've been arguing that killers are getting outplayed when they do this, and should be hunting the totem as soon as the notification goes off.
Make up your mind.
@BreadTube said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2708487#Comment_2708487
Killers have a wide plethora of options to take when a survivor is trying not lead them to an area of no interest. Boons have only shined a light on killers who can & can't pressure gens most of the time.
Destroying the totem would just put boons in D tier where most of the survivor perks are
"A wide plethora of options?" Your options are either hope you can down the survivor fast enough to not take a sizeable hit on gens, or let them go. Maybe get a pallet if you're lucky.
But that's not really the point. The point is that there isn't even necessarily a survivor in this area - there won't be unless you just lost chase or someone got unhooked - just a boon that will take you too much time to reach and will go back up after you snuff it anyway. This is a lose-lose scenario. No matter what you do, you're giving survivors massive free time on gens and you can't get CoH out of the match. Really the only viable solution is to identify which survivor has CoH and aggressively tunnel them.
A team-wide heal that can be used 5 times is far from D-tier. Inner Strength was a great perk before CoH completely outclassed it and it's capped by the number of totems.
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@BreadTube said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2708412#Comment_2708412
A survivor healing themselves using COH means the killer lost the chase. Survivors only get boon value when they're inside it's radius. Survivors need these specific scenarios to get boon value, how are the killers not getting outplayed?
Also 14+s to find a boon? Come on now.
It actually doesn't. CoH lets you heal mid-chase. Pre-drop maybe 3 pallets with a medkit and dead hard and you can get a full heal off. That's an edge case, but there's plenty of ways to be injured that didn't involve you escaping the killer - two or more people on a generator and the killer smacks both before committing to one, getting off a hook, mobbing an unhook situation, taking a protection hit for someone else in chase.
In what world are you managing to find the correct totem out of five in less than 15 seconds? Maps are big. I know totem spawns on most maps and I wish I could find totems that quickly. The point is, even if you never got a heal off with CoH, you still got value if you made the killer waste that much time off gens. A survivor's 14 seconds are worth less than the killer's 14 seconds unless it's the last survivor left.
Like, if the survivor is booning right next to you, sure, you'll find it ASAP. Everything else involves roaming the map. Even if my minimap had all totems lit, it would still take me... 30? 40? seconds to do a totem round trip on an outdoor map with derpy totem spawns like Shelter Woods. A longer map like Azarov's or Lampkin, over a minute. An indoor two-story map like RCPD or Midwich? Hah...
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@BreadTube said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2708409#Comment_2708409
This isn't like whispers, if killers took the time to actually learn totem spawns & keep track of where survivors are then boons wouldn't be that big of a deal. You're telling me killers all of a sudden have lost the ability to figure out where survivors are & thus their boons?
It's not an issue when a survivor goes and boons the totem sitting next to their generator, or in shack (that still has god pallet.) That will be found and destroyed incidentally. It is an issue when the survivor has more than two brain cells and boons a totem that's next to a generator that's already been completed, or in a dead zone in the corner of the map - areas that are no longer of interest to the killer.
The killer does not have the free time to go to that area. Even if you know where it is (which only happens when they bless a hex) - by the time you reach it, the booner will have already left. The only smart time to go there is if you've identified which spot the totem is in (which is difficult when you aren't having any chases in that area or checking any generators), you're not currently in a chase, and there's an injured person that you suspect is going to go to the boon to heal. And again, you sacrifice all gen presence to do this; this is ruinous when you're on the last gen as the other survivors will take the 30-second round trip to slam those things.
The killer role is not like the survivor role. You don't have someone to delegate to handle multiple tasks at once. You have to pick the most important thing to do at every given time, and damaging the survivors is more important than removing boons that will go back up as soon as you leave anyway.
If you go to hunt down boons whenever the notification goes off, you'll barely have any time or opportunity to chase survivors. You'll just end up playing whack-a-mole around the map while three other survivors do gens. I don't see why this is so difficult to understand; what you are suggesting is not a good use of time, nor feasible in many matches.
A big part of the reason many people want snuffing boons to destroy the totem is because it would make spending a bit of time to hunt a totem actually worth the investment.
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@BreadTube said:
They're a waste of time if the killer makes sure survivors don't get their value. It's goes like this for complaints against boons(mainly COH)
- Killer hears boon notification, but doesn't bother to do anything about it
- Survivors gain that 14s of booning time back by playing strategically around it
- Killer has a difficult match or just loses because of this
Now what's going on here becomes clear, that they just got outplayed, but this the dbd player base we're talking about so instead boons are OP & need nerfs.
You'd have a point if killers had the time to check every possible totem spawn on the map every time a boon notification went off.
They don't. Even if they assume the boon isn't in the two nearest areas to their location and check the other three, they don't. Even if they had all five totem spots lit up on their minimap, they still don't have the time to travel around the map to check them.
You don't have that kind of free time in a killer match unless the team is potatoes. You need to be chasing someone constantly, and pushing people off gens if you're not in an active chase. And even if survivors spend 14s on a boon that never gets any use, the killer having to travel 14+ seconds to find and snuff it gave everyone else on the team uninterrupted time to work on generators - and the killer's travel time will be undone as soon as they leave the area, or the booner travels somewhere else and the boon goes back up. The survivors still win in that time-balance scenario.
The only time-effective way to deal with boons is to snuff them when you end up right next to them. Anything else will lose you the game against a team that uses their time wisely.
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Depends how you play. If you tunnel or use instadown perks or killers, or killers that can reliably apply Broken, CoH doesn't affect you too much. If you split pressure and you're playing an M1 killer, or a killer whose power works better on injured players than it does healthy ones, it will.
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Who says Hag is weak?
Hag struggles against an experienced comms SWF, or a stars-align solo team where all four players are well above average, flashlights are involved, and one or two players are both fantastic loopers and very proactive about disarming her traps when she's busy. She also struggles when the Hag player has no idea how to play Hag.
Otherwise, she's one of the most dangerous killers in the game. Boons can be annoying for her, as they can be annoying for everyone who isn't Plague, but they don't even slightly hinder her ability to guard hooks or trap relevant loops.
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While I'd let the survivor go if I knew what they were doing - odds are I'd think they were trying to BM me. Survivors finding hatch, spamming loud noises until the killer shows up, and then tbagging or pointing until the very last second are very common. Too much of this situation resembles that; the difference could be that the survivor was too daring or got too caught up in pointing.
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One thing I find is that if a hook spawns in the edge of the courtyard, the game thinks it's good to go and there's a hook in that area, so it neglects to place hooks in the adjacent hallways. This is okay for the two sides of the courtyard with entrances (albeit it can still be problematic on occasion), but for the other two sides, it is impossible to reach that hook from the adjacent first floor hallway and you get deadzones.
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@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705888#Comment_2705888
its obvious if someone is a lightborn user, you can't hide it.
If it is, why do people keep trying to blind me?
I only bring it if I get a 4-flashlight lobby, and in that case, it's a QoL perk - the lobby signals to me that the survivors are likely a SWF and they're going to harass me over every down, and I just ain't got time for that. You know the survivors are going to crawl away from walls so their friends can get the angle, or locker tech. I can't think of a single time that people actually recognized I had Lightborn after the first failed blind. It takes like 3 for people to stop trying, and that's if I don't hide that I have it; If I try to look away or chase flashlight holders away from the down, they'll keep beaming at me for most of the match.
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Happens pretty often. Not 2/3 games often (mind, when the DC penalty is off - that's a different story), but way more common than it should be.
You wonder how these people derive any enjoyment out of the game if being downed once is too much for them.
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What you've invented is basically a bug zapper for Mikaelas.
I don't think it'd actually fail often, though. Even if nobody brought boons (and somebody brought boons) - when people see that many totems, they go "oh god oh no oh #########" and assume it's protecting Devour or something really fiendish and nasty and get on them like their lives depend on it.
The best part is that if you get lucky, Haunted Grounds plus aura reading can proc twice.
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I'm not sure what your point is?
Yes, some players are dicks. Yesterday I watched a Pig bleed out a perkless and confused baby Nea while tbagging and shaking their head. BMers deserve BM.
People who complain about BM are usually doing so because they did not do anything to earn it and they get treated like crap anyway.
Generally it's the one who initiates the BM that's at fault.
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I love playing against Scratched Mirror Myers on Lery's... it's crazy tense. You actually feel like you're playing a horror game.
I'm going to nominate NOED when you get solo queue teammates that have no idea what to do. If I don't go down first, I'll check all the dull totems I found earlier and cleanse it. If I do go down first, I watch everyone run around in circles at the gates for two minutes if I'm lucky and watch everyone die in an immediately doomed rescue attempt if I'm not.
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I don't mind kicking gens if I hook a survivor near them. Doesn't feel like a meaningful detour.
Kicking a gen you're patrolling is pretty pointless though. If you don't find a survivor but you do find a partially worked gen, odds are they're hiding nearby and they'll go back to it when you leave.
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@Jago said:
Shadowstep is a new player destroyer.
Not strictly? I don't have very good eyesight and I mostly rely on sound to track survivors. Scratch marks are super easy for me to follow unless I'm on a bright map like Ormond or Eyrie (and in that case, the bad eyesight isn't so much of an issue.) Losing scratchmarks against someone who's healthy or has IW can be painful if it isn't contextually obvious where they went.
But again, it's mostly strong on indoor maps, especially dark ones where blood doesn't show up well.
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It's powerful on indoor maps, mostly ineffective on outdoors.
RCPD and Midwich are the two maps where Shadow Step turns nasty. A combination of dark floors, two stories, boon spots that cover large areas, and frequent LoS breaks make it murder to deal with.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705505#Comment_2705505
No, they’re actually about the median size. Literally about half the maps are larger than Eyrie and the others I mentioned above.
For reference, Eyrie et al are 9984 square meters. Here’s the area counts of the maps in order (excluding RCPD since the wiki doesn’t have its area)
7264 - 1
8448 - 1
8704 - 2
8832 - 1
8960 - 2
9090 - 1
9216 - 4
9472 - 2
9728 - 1
9984 - 7 (Eyrie of Crows is here)
10240 - 3
10304 - 1
10496 - 2
10752 - 4
11008 - 1
11264 - 2
12032 - 1
(I’m not sure why people keep believing Eyrie is a larger than normal map. It’s like some urban myth that won’t go away,)
Huh, you're right. Strange. I suppose with several of the very large maps like Shelter Woods and Rotten Fields, the size is less noticeable because the map design is "massive dead zone with stuff on the edges" - compared to map like Gas Heaven (or Haddonfield) where large walls increase the map's travel time from A to B. Both Swamp maps have a similar principle, but to a lesser extent. And Azarov's is absolutely massive, but you can afford to ignore half the map due to the way it's split up.
I'm not sure what I'm getting at here, because I think Eyrie's a pretty balanced map, but a lot of the large maps seem deceptively more reasonable due to their layout. It's interesting to examine their real size versus their perceived size - like Badham feels huge due to all the fences, but it's actually slightly below average.
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@BreadTube said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705490#Comment_2705490
Even if a 3 gen is entirely the survivors fault & they orchestrated a 3 gen since the beginning, a 3 gen shouldn't come without major risk for killers. Also there's plenty of perks that are strong in nearly every situation. The perk just gives you self-care, I haven't had any problems with it on non-layered maps.
Nnnno. The perk doesn't give you Self-Care, it gives you an infinite brown medkit and We'll Make It. There is a huge difference between 32 second heals and 16 second heals. Self-Care is really slow and takes a survivor out of action for a while, leaving them very vulnerable to interruption and keeping them off gens or from doing saves - it takes the 32 total seconds of team time required to heal one survivor (16 seconds for the survivor doing the healing and 16 seconds for the survivor sitting, being healed) and applies it all to one person. The way CoH works halves the amount of team time it takes for all heals in addition to guaranteeing a survivor can heal in any situation - they don't need to find another player and they don't need a perk or medkit, as long as one team member brings a perk and a totem is up somewhere.
CoH outclasses every other healing perk in the game by miles, has less strict activation conditions than half of them anyway, and the killer cannot permanently remove it without killing every player who has it. 14 seconds sounds great until you remember there's 4 survivors and 1 killer. It's 14 seconds of one survivor's time while the other 3 are on gens or healing or being chased or whatever other objectives they have; if the killer takes more than 3.5 seconds to locate and snuff it, they have lost more time than they gained. Killers cannot afford to 'hunt' boons. If they run across one and they're not in chase, they can snuff it; anything else is a gross misuse of time that will cause survivors to rocket ahead (unless the survivors are derping around instead of properly using that time to slam gens, or healing and resetting the team when the killer should be pressing the advantage.)
Like, think about it. Inner Strength was considered the best self-healing perk and commonly used before CoH. It allowed you to spend 14 seconds cleansing a totem, then entering a locker would provide an 8-second heal. In comparison, CoH lets you spend 14 seconds blessing a totem and then every player in the match can heal themselves in 16 seconds within a 24 meter radius. The totem is not consumed even if the killer finds it and snuffs it.
That's trading 8 seconds of heal speed for letting every other survivor heal themselves until someone brings the killer to the spot where the totem is and it gets snuffed, and a lack of caps on how many times you can use it. The power creep on display here is wild. Even Self-Care is slightly slower than blessing a totem and healing yourself afterwards, and that discounts everyone else getting 16 second heals too.
CoH drastically changed how health states work in killer games because it's so much more streamlined and more universal than every other healing perk to date. Hit and run flat out doesn't work anymore; you will not encounter injured survivors when CoH is in play, and you can't take CoH out of play. 3-genning doesn't work either if 3 players are alive and someone has CoH, when previously 3-gens needed 4 alive survivors to beat it unless the killer messed up.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705489#Comment_2705489
It’s not “one of the largest”. All the maps below are the same size and there are maps larger than all of them.
- Groaning Storehouse
- Fractured Cowshed
- Temple of Purgation
- Both Yamoka Estate maps
- Ormond
- Eyrie of Crows
Those are all really big maps, though. They might not be Red Forest size, but all of those minus Sanctum of Wrath are survivor-sided, and most of them heavily so.
That said, I haven't really noticed issues with Eyrie except that it sucks for Trapper and stealth killers (and there's some hanging branches that foil Demo and Billy.) It's a big map, but the gen spread is surprisingly tight and visibility is very high.
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I like the rift, I like the character design, and I like the occasional friendly interactions you get.
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Swamp will now be in broad daylight and feature several unnecessary breakable walls, but otherwise be exactly as miserable as it was before.
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I was enthused about MMR because I, like many other players, assumed it'd be built on something considerably more nuanced than just escapes and kills.
The test matches were rough at times, but they didn't have the time to settle into the absolute MMR pits that exist now for most players (with low MMR survivor and high MMR killer being soul-crushing, inescapable pits.) I liked the killer matches because they matched me with players closer to my skill level, as opposed to matching me above my skill level. But now that MMR is active for more than a day at a time - my killer MMR gets super low when I play the way I want to and act friendly after 8 hooks, so I have to play in ways I don't want to in order to keep afloat, and solo MMR throws me potato teammates as often as competent ones and the best I can do is break even. It's gotten really common for me to make it to the end of the match and then die because everyone just runs to the gates and leaves.
And a few players noticed then what practically everyone does now. But it wasn't remotely as pronounced during the testing phases because they were all so brief.
I was also excited about MMR because I thought it would allow for BHVR to better analyze data within different gameplay brackets, since old red ranks meant extremely little and rank 1 was too wide a net to examine. However, I haven't seen any evidence of balancing decisions made to address high-end gameplay, so that hope was also quashed.
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I'll play clear SWFs but dodge ones that have 4 toolboxes (it's either 4 commodious or 4 sabo builds) or 4 flashlights (because they're always bad sports and I don't want to play with annoying people.)
I don't avoid TTVs though, barring the four flashies. I've only had a few bad experiences compared to a lot of overall neutral or positive ones, and I like doing weird things and watching their reactions on stream later.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705165#Comment_2705165
"so if we aren't recording at the time the match is happening," You implied this. Also why not say that in the first time I replied but instead you went on a charade about how much of a hassle it is. Could have just said "me no download, me not responsibility" and that would have been the end of it, instead you entertained the idea. stop changing your story mate
That is an exceptionally pedantic stance to take, to play devil's advocate on someone's argument over a bit of wording in one post that isn't even unconditionally what you've interpreted it to be. "If we aren't recording at the time the match is happening" doesn't intrinsically mean the player can record, it creates a conditional that excludes a much greater portion of the playerbase. People with recording devices who aren't recording at the time of something weird can't report. People who don't have recording devices are also not recording, so they can't report.
Edit: Granted, when I scrolled back up, the next paragraph undermines this and I will grant you that the implication was correct - but I still think that your stance here is needlessly pedantic, to continue harping on this after it's been clarified... what, three times? The replay system is necessary either way, because the game recording and saving match data is what's necessary to carry the in-game reporting system. I disagree that players should have to record a replay - BHVR should save that themselves. But evidently the OP also thinks that, so I don't see a reason to continue arguing about a point that was already unmade. People are allowed to clarify and adjust their stance over the course of a discussion, and there's not much to be gained in continuing to beat a point that's already been moved away from.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705027#Comment_2705027
A recording software alternative that you wanted from the beginning but it's very convenient for you to suddenly change your stance from "In case we're not recording" to "Players shouldn't have to record" on the drop of a hat. Funny how you were entertaining this idea until I completely shut down your argument to say that software are a hassle to open 24/7.
Keep your story intact next time. It's okay to admit you were wrong and you weren't as tech savy as you thought you were. I'm not tech guy myself but that was pretty funny "I don't want to open one 24/7"
Is "you should be able to report other players in-game without using third-party software" really that difficult or unreasonable a concept?
Because never in my life have I played a multiplayer game where the in-game report function didn't actually work before DBD.
Seriously, how is your average player outside the forums even supposed to know that reporting a hacker with the in-game system doesn't do anything? The system is incredibly obtuse. The fact that they place a burden of proof that players can't satisfy without external downloads and constant running (aka CPU) is icing on the cake. Handling this stuff in-house is elementary.
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I've come to understand the majority of the layout, and there's only one spot I get a little tripped up over, but I still don't think it's a good idea for a map.
This map is insanely brutal for newbies. Like it's an instant loss. It is beyond unintuitive how to reach point B from point A and for people who don't have it memorized yet, you can't figure out how to get to hooked survivors, much less where anything is or what hallways are dead ends. Midwich operates on straight lines. Lery's, while visually samey, is a grid with a clear center and clear outer edges. RCPD is basically a bunch of 90* angle squiggly lines in the shape of a map, and it has two levels just to make everything extra confusing.
No map should have a learning curve that steep. The first game of DBD I ever played was on Lery's and I still managed to find gens and unhook people. I couldn't say the same of RCPD after playing it ten times, and I had over a thousand hours in the game by that point.
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@chimera3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2704451#Comment_2704451
Sure, the focus is mostly on Frank and then Julie for that one tome. But there’s enough bits and pieces sprinkled throughout The Legions lore plus things like their cosmetic descriptions I.E Susies year of the rat skin back story that still keep my interest in all 4 rather than just Frank and Julie.
The rat outfit also contradicts Susie's original lore... she's frightened by the concept of stabbing a dead body in their character backstory and Frank has to physically guide her hands to make her do it, but in her outfit, at a time that has to be before the janitor's death, she's totally down to stab a random guy and leave him to bleed out to impress Frank. She was also either cutting herself or other people in the school's art studio in her neon outfit.
Legion lore is not the pinnacle of consistency.
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Nah, I consider it a win if everyone else makes it out. I'm also happy if I die guaranteeing that another person makes it out - it's a win for me if I could have escaped and I pass on the torch to someone else. Hashtag altruisticlyfe.
Not a win if the other player bungles it and we both die, though. Really obnoxious to give your life to save someone who goes down tbagging, or who doesn't use Borrowed Time at all.
The one exception to the "I die but 3 escaped" is when NOED goes off and everyone stays at the gates instead of trying to look for the totem. Or the same situation without NOED, really; multiple healthy survivors that make no attempt to go back for anyone. I totally understand playing it safe if you're injured or on death hook, but solo queue can be interesting at times.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703770#Comment_2703770
How is an M1 killer good at camping? With Leathface or Pyramid Head I understand, but why Wraith? Is it because he can go invisible? Because again, he has to uncloak to hit them, even though they can't tell that he's camping when they're running up, until they hear his obvious loud breathing.
It's that he can go invisible, yeah. If he positions himself a little off to the side, they won't hear the breathing, but in my experience, new players tend to take a while to recognize the breathing anyway. I like to mess around with people when I play Wraith and for obviously new teams, sometimes I'll park myself next to a gen, in front of the exit gates, or block a doorway and wait for someone to come by. They'll take 5-15 seconds to react and run away. A couple of times, a player never noticed I was next to their gen at all.
This kind of camping is super easy for a decent team to deal with, but new players rarely bring BT, DS, or bodyblock, so Wraith can seem totally inescapable. I brought it up because Wraith is easy to play when you're not very good at the game, and new killers often resort to it.
@El_Gingero has the right of it, though - the nerfs didn't really do anything to stop Wraith from wrecking newbies. His super-lunge was mostly good for dealing with looping, which isn't a concern with casual players anyway; if someone's running in a straight line, the 1.25 -> 1 second lunge just makes it so that it takes another second to reach them. And CoH requires you to own a new DLC character.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703195#Comment_2703195
Like I've already said: Clicking your flashlight isn't toxic. Survivors will usually t-bag if they really want to be toxic. Flashlights can be used for many different reasons. I personally click my flashlight sometimes to get the killers attention (especially if he is tunneling my teammates), for saves, and I also do it because I like the clicking sound, lol.
Killer players shouldn't take everything so personal and assume every survivor is evil. Telling someone to kill themselves is very extreme... I don't consider clicking a flashlight to be on the same level as that.
It sucks that flashlights can make you (and others) feel sick, but I'm not really sure if the devs could do anything about that. I do dislike people that use flashlight macros, though. These are just my thoughts on flashlights in the game, nothing else. This will probably be my last post on this thread.
I hope you have a good day/night wherever you are.
Just because you don't use something for toxic reasons doesn't mean other people don't do it either.
Flashlight clicking can be benign. So can tbagging. Tbagging can mean 'hello', 'thank you', 'heal me', 'look at this'... and it can mean 'haha ######### you.' It's all about the context, and clicking is the same. Clicking at a pallet, at the gates, or after something like a Head On play/DS/a flashlight or pallet save is a taunt, and macros exist purely to be irritating.
Even the 'get the killer's attention' argument is a little flimsy because while there is a tactical element at play, that tactical element hinges on the killer being annoyed by the clicking.
The devs could easily remove strobing issues by capping the amount of times the flashlight can be activated in a very short period of time. Bam, epilepsy fix right there. Photosensitivity in general is harder (some players have an issue with the blinding screen), but I think that could be dealt with just by creating an option that turns the visual of a blind from white to black, like colorblind mode.
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@BadLooperQ said:
Always remember to put only one little circle in the "Did you have Fun this match?".... 🙃
I'm pretty sure that like thumbs-upping a user, that option is merely a placebo.
I still do it, but without match replays saved, that information can't actually mean anything. I'm not sure it even saves that feedback, and if it does, the only data points potentially collected are score and killer/perks/items/addons. Maybe there's more one-stars when it's a tombstone Myers or 4 BNP/full meta/CoH, but 'this person didn't like dying with 3000 points' is a bit of a no brainer. It definitely doesn't tell BHVR what the killer or the survivors were doing. If I give the match one star because I got facecamped (sweeping aside the question of toxicity for a second, getting facecamped early on is definitely a 1-star experience) or because the survivors were trolling me, then the important part of my feedback isn't conveyed in the feedback itself.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
He is not bad or trash at all. But we know that this Community likes to overreact to Nerfs, the Nerf to his Lunge is not really significant and the Nerf to All-Seeing is also not much (they should have reworked the Add-On into something else).
Wraith is decent, you can win games with him. In the end, he is an M1-Killer, so his strength is limited. But this is alright, you dont need to put in much effort to play him, so it is fair that he is not super-strong, but I would not call him bad or trash.
The nerf to his lunge is incredibly significant. Wraith is the killer I have the second most amount of time on. When it was 1.25 seconds, you could use it as an antiloop tool similar to Pig's dash, but slightly better IMO. People had to leave short loops or get hit, and he could generally ensure hits around several window structures he used to/now again struggles with. At 1 seconds, it does not function this way. It makes up his lost distance uncloaking and that's it.
I don't care about All-Seeing; it's still good and it was never necessary. But the lunge nerf is bad. It rendered him once again toothless against players that know how to loop.
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@xxshyguyxx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703553#Comment_2703553
They messed up nerfing the boost after uncloaking for sure. I like wraith. I just don't get why the devs felt the need to nerf him. I guess they saw something in the stats we don't know about.
Wraith is and has always been a noob stomper. He excels at destroying inexperienced players because he can get close unnoticed and he hard counters holding W, which is the only way that new players know how to escape chase. His weakness is looping (especially window looping), which casuals aren't good at, and he's well above average at camping, which casuals are also not good at dealing with. He takes extremely little skill to play effectively - low floor, but also low ceiling.
He's like Pinhead in that sense. He got nerfed because the low skill bracket can't deal with him at all, but in doing so, they took away his only tool to handle more skilled survivors.
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You would die a lot more. The current state of the game isn't balanced for hide and seek, it's balanced for chases. Being unable to look around corners, or look around you while working on gens, is extremely dangerous.
I don't think it's an option worth creating because very few people would use it. It's a handicap, plain and simple.
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The lunge nerf hurt him by removing his antiloop, but CoH is the real nail in his coffin. He's always been a killer good at getting the first hit and bad at the second. He can't deal with CoH constantly and reliably erasing his hits.
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702953#Comment_2702953
I'm sorry this is long.
To respond to the first paragraph I'm not sure the word, perspective I think. It's not that I'm saying that what they are doing is ultimately okay or isn't pointlessly aggrevating. It's more that I realize that no matter what there will always be things that irritates others.
The thing is everyone has different scales of what they consider irritating, annoying or offensive. Humming is nothing to one person but nails on a chalkboard to another. You can't expect everyone to fall in line with your expectations, and ultimately you have to develop ways to deal.
Yes it'd be nice if people were more understanding and considerate, but in reality the same can be said about oneself. Unless you never leave the house I garuntee plenty of people do this with you everyday. It's not that your a bad person, it's just what dealing with others is like. You have to learn to ignore certain things so that if someone does go to far it means something when you speak up.
The people in the video didn't go clicky clicky because they are heartless soulless demons from the darkest ichor filled hole in Hel. They are likely immature and are either looking for attention or are the kids who keep making fart noises with their armpits and blame their mom while giggling.
Which leads into your second paragraph. The short is... stuff that happened to me in my past has given me a very different scale. It is hard for me to use a word like toxic on something like clicking a flashlight when it can also mean child abuse.
Its also a problem for me as I find more and more it's just become "I spouted off offensive language or was openly abusive but its not my fault. You were toxic." Just blame shifting for one's own actions and inability to self moderate. The person wasn't toxic, you(not Laluzi you) just didn't want to be an adult.
I find this stuff annoying and wish people wouldn't do it either. I just get that they are doing it less because they are horrid monsters and more because they're just stupid kids you gotta learn to tune out.
Stupid, stupid kids.
All of that is fair. It seems like the only major difference in opinion here is a desire to see something done about it, or the sense that when enough people are negatively affected by something, it should merit action and pass the 'learn to deal' stage. To use the irritant analogy, few people would be irritated by background conversation, so if you're bothered by people talking in a restaurant, you're expected to bring earplugs or some other self-solution because the world isn't going to stop for you. But most people won't tolerate someone screaming next to them, so you will be told to stop if you have a heated argument in the middle of that restaurant, and you'll most likely be made to leave if you continue to disturb the peace. It's part of the social contract.
I never thought these people were pure evil or anything so hyperbolic, but I do think they need to shape up and learn how to behave themselves, and that letting them make a mess of the game is sending the wrong message by giving them a green light to carry on. And consequences are the quickest way to dissuade people from actions, whether that's social pressure or laying down the law. I am pretty willing to call them out on their lack of empathy, but to be fair, there's a quite literal link between empathy and maturity (at least, in the literal sense; no accounting for the adults in the picture.) I see no problem judging people by how they treat total strangers in a vacuum, and if they don't like that judgement, they could try not antagonizing the people around them for a change. Are they evil, no, are they the kind of people I would consider good, also no.
While there's plenty of rude or obnoxious people out there in the world, you get less of this kind of overt behavior when you go about your business IRL (barring when you work in customer service, anyway... but the reason for that is actually quite similar.) The internet takes things a step beyond 'strangers that I'll never interact with again'; anything you do is completely consequence-free when there's no managers to signal or no risk of a fist in your face. Which lends to the internet being an outlet for people sublimating their frustration or unsatisfied need for attention. This is a universal phenomenon, but it's mitigated in small communities (which isn't possible here) and in moderated communities (which is.)
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703100#Comment_2703100
...It's really, really not. Shadow Step is strong, but not overpowered, since it's relatively easy to play around even if you're chasing someone in its radius. Circle of Healing, by contrast, completely removes whole playstyles and tactics, and is absurdly strong compared to any other healing perk in the game. CoH is way stronger than Shadow Step.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703107#Comment_2703107
So, you do raise a point where there are niche scenarios that make Shadow Step more of a pain- still nowhere near as powerful as CoH, of course, I'm not sure why "you can't chase anyone" while Shadow Step is up, but it is a lot more annoying and a lot more powerful than that perk is elsewhere. The problem here is twofold, though- it once again bumps up against hard nuking the entire concept just because of outliers (CoH being the strength outlier, RPD being the outlier for making Exponential usable and Shadow Step more annoying), and it's also not actually the solution to that problem.
Instead of effectively completely removing boon totems from use by making them incredibly limited, why not look into whether or not the effect should get to permeate through floors? That'll handle the outlier situation that you're describing here without making Shadow Step and Exponential quite literally useless on any other map in any other scenario.
Breaking boon totems is not only not the only solution, it's not a solution, it's only a brief step above saying "just delete them from the game". There are actual solutions to these problems, like reworking totem spawns, making boons travel far less vertically, and nerfing the absolute ######### out of Circle of Healing, so why not push for that?
I say you can't chase anyone because RCPD is the most LOS-limited of the indoor maps. It's nearly impossible to chase without scratch marks because every doorway represents a coin flip on whether the survivor went straight or turned and there's doors all over the place. Healthy chases don't work. Blood helps, but the ground is quite dark and blotchy and it's not an easy map to see it on; the thing you've really got working for you are injured sounds, and Iron Will is a meta perk. While it'd help a lot in RCPD and Midwich, I don't think removing the verticality would really fix the problem of Shadow Step being useless on some maps and incredibly powerful on others. It's not even a Balanced Landing sort of deal where it's strong when accompanying a map offering but can be powered through; the value it gets in foiling chases is nuts when you have a map with loads of LoS breaks and bring Iron Will. It might be one floor, but Lery's is still mega rough without scratch marks.
The situations where unremovable Shadow Step is an issue are mostly synonymous with the situations where Shadow Step is useful, so it's a very tricky perk to balance. I disagree that it's less powerful than CoH in those situations, though. On Midwich or RCPD, I think it's stronger. You can tunnel out past CoH, but the only way to handle SS + IW is to keep snuffing. (The Game is also pretty bad, but I find it has greater LoS and blood is easier to track than Midwich or RCPD.)
Exponential needs a very specific setup to be a torment perk, but verticality will do little to it; it's entirely based on having a few zones where players can run to when they're going down, and teammates that harass the killer so that picking up in time isn't possible. Can work on any map except maybe ones with bad totem spread like Swamp. Dealing with it + CoH pretty much requires the SWF to either ######### up or run out of item charges.
Also, Twins. It's never going to be as good as CoH or Shadow Step, and I don't think it needs any adjustments that don't apply to boons as a whole, but there are situations where you'd want to get rid of totems for good.
I'm just not convinced that making them destructible would actually kill the boon mechanic. I rarely play matches where more than 5 lightings occur, and the most popular boon isn't particularly location-dependent anyway.
Boons in their current state don't have counterplay. The killer can snuff them if they happen to be right next to them and not in a chase. That's the only time-sensitive option available when snuffing the boon equates to a grand total of 14 seconds required to put it back up - or 3.5 seconds evenly divided amongst the survivor team. If the killer spends more than 3.5 seconds destroying it, they've lost time. I don't think that's a healthy model that killers essentially have to deal with the boon effect being there when the boon effect is so strong and gives the whole team extra perk slots, and so far have not seen a suggestion that keeps boons in their infinite state and also leaves them as perks worth running. (Range nerfs kill the non-CoH ones as well, so I'm not really convinced that's the way to go.)
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@jesterkind said:
It wouldn't be a good change, because it doesn't understand and reconcile what boon totems are actually designed for. The point of snuffing a totem isn't to provide a huge downside, it's to pull a survivor away from their objective to relight it, and the more times they do that the better it works out for you- if they could only do it five times max (less for any given survivor if they're all running totems) then you won't get any real slowdown out of the situation, and survivors would be much less incentivised to actually run boon totems at all.
Also, think about it this way: Is this really a problem for Shadow Step and Exponential? Or is it just Circle of Healing that feels too powerful to be limitlessly available?
Usually no, but it can be. There are some spots where it's busted to have a totem and you have to get rid of it, but that isn't possible with the current state of boons and the killer's just kind of boned.
Imagine playing against a team with 3-4 Shadow Steps and an RPD offering. You really just need a totem in the library and one in that room below the fancy office and the survivors are completely set - no scratch marks on most of the map. You can't chase anyone without snuffing the totem, but when you snuff it, somebody's put it back up by the time you find someone else to try and chase.
Same with Exponential and a SWF who has a few of them dotting the map and full flashlight/sabo builds. Impossible to pick up within 12 seconds, impossible to slug. Add in CoH for speed heals and destroying the totems is the only way to progress, but you can't actually do that, just stall them for a bit - and for way less time than it stalled you.
So yeah, I'm pretty desperate for destroyable boons (optionally snuffable if the killer wishes to preserve the totem.) Five uses is plenty good enough for a typical match, and hopefully it'll encourage people to place boons smarter instead of spamming them everywhere.
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I'd be okay with leaving the vertical aspect in and 24m range if snuffing the boon broke the totem. Really, there's a lot of nuisances packed into this perk, but it's the infinite respawning that makes it so impossible to deal with.
I also believe that hexes like Plaything or NOED should be able to overwrite a boon totem if the only available totems standing in the match are boon totems when the perk's activation condition meets.
I'll be beside myself if the perk isn't touched with the midchapter. It's busted. It invalidates every other healing perk in the game just by existing and it singlehandedly murdered the hit and run playstyle.
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Making people sabo near the killer isn't going to make them actually sabotage properly. It's just going to make it so that instead of saboing random hooks around the map, they're going to chase the killer, sabo hooks next to them, and then die early when that inevitably leads them to being caught. There are always people that will prioritize rushing the challenge over playing the game.
Hook sabo challenges aren't as bad as totem cleansing challenges or chest opening challenges for incentivizing your teammates to waste time. At least hooks are pretty quick work, and with any luck, the killer will be checking out noise pings in random spots, taking a bit of pressure off your gen.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702866#Comment_2702866
Killers defs get bullied all the time in end game chat regardless of how they play
You would know this if you ever played killer for more then 10 hours
Literally the most recent match I played, I had a teammate accuse the killer of camping and tunneling, calling them bad at the game, a weirdo, a loser, and unable to chase.
It was a Huntress with pretty normal perks - Ruin, Lullaby, Nurse's, and Fearmonger. Ruin went down within the first minute of the game and I never noticed Lullaby existed. Nothing to get salty about.
The only camping she did was in the endgame, when there's literally nothing else for the killer to do. When I pointed this out in chat, the teammate then accused the Huntress of tunneling her friend. The killer got her first hook four minutes into the game after at least seven chases that each resulted in one injury, and one down that got picked up because she left to chase someone else. On the dead player's second hook, I walked up to the killer and took a down to divert attention, and she picked me up instead of pursuing the fleeing Mikaela. (There were three players in the area, no reason for her to leave the hook.) That player didn't die until a minute and a half after that anyway - probably because she ran to her CoH in a spot the killer already knew about. The Huntress got two kills in the end purely out of endgame hook trading and it was a pretty fair and fun game; one of the better ones I'd played today. Honestly, I thought the killer should have tunneled more, because she switched targets a lot and CoH was nearly always in play.
I should also point out that there were two identical Mikaelas and you can't be expected to differentiate between two players who only differ between their teeny tiny survivor charms.
But nope. Camper, tunneler, bad killer, needed to learn how to play the game.
I tend to trust people when they say survivors complained about nothing because in my experience, survivors complain about nothing all the time. Hell, once I was accused of camping in a game I farmed and got one hook total.
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@The_Snowman said:
The game does not make people toxic. It is the mentality of some players that feel entitled to win every match and the reality is that you can't.
Camping and tunneling is a strategy, such as an ambush. If they work then people will use them, they are not being toxic. Somebody flicking a flashlight, teabagging at a gate or even hitting somebody on hook is not toxic. It is the way that people perceive it and the repercussion in the after game chat.
Simply it's a game, if it upsets you that much then take a break, go play something else.
"The way people perceive it" isn't a good argument. These actions have meanings ascribed to them and the meanings are the reason people do them - the point is to aggravate the other player. Flashlight clicking is endemic to DBD, but tbags have a common meaning across game culture and it is unanimously a taunt. I've said this a lot, but "you're just perceiving it as aggressive" is the same logic that a middle finger doesn't mean anything unless you let it mean something because it's a hand gesture, and you shouldn't get peeved over "your mom should have gotten an abortion" because it's just mouth noises. Tbagging is a language. When your injured teammate walks up to you and tbags, they're asking for a heal, not communicating the location of the killer via Morse Code or expressing their feelings about the map. If you spawn next to another survivor at the start of the game and they tbag, they're saying hello, not asking you to follow them or telling you you suck. And you know this because you've been exposed to this before and it has a standard meaning in DBD. Likewise, survivors tbagging at pallets or the gates aren't saying "hey, great game, you played well!" or "if I vibrate hard enough, I believe I can achieve flight". They're taunting you.
So yeah. It's not the gesture I'm angry at, it's that the other player is being rude to me for no reason, and they want me to know that they're being rude to me.
I actually do think this game turns people toxic because of pent-up frustration with the other players, as well as some osmotic learning on the survivor side; you quickly learn that tbagging at the gates and yelling at the killer over X, Y, and Z is just what people do. I dunno, I browse the forum and Reddit often and practically the most common kind of post is people expressing how much they've come to hate the other side because of how they're treated in game.
@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702809#Comment_2702809
More childish and immature than toxic.
Next time just ignore them. As in don't go near the exit gates. Once the match is over I usually just alt tab to a show for a few minutes and wait them out. They can waste their time like the kids they are.
I mean, it'd be even better if people just didn't do that and I wasn't faced with the choice of either wasting two minutes or vindicating a bunch of gloating children every single killer match I neither 4k nor farm in.
I also don't really see the differentiation between immature and toxic in this case? Toxic to me is acting specifically to try and aggravate other players, with no gameplay benefit or any gameplay benefit being a secondary goal to making the other players mad. It's often immature, but it doesn't make it any less toxic in and of itself. Unless we just have different definitions of toxic, which is quite possible.
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I think it works. Body shape fits to a T (or an X) and the power doesn't have to be spot on - Look-See and Mordeo aren't, and we're happy to play those anyway.
I'd totally buy it.
(Though to be honest, I can't think about Mr. X without immediately getting overruled by the Thomas the Tank Engine mod.)
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@xxshyguyxx said:
That moron would have said that if you had 4k too. It's just BM bullcrap that's typical from survivors. They expect to win these days.
If they do, they call you trash. If they don't they call you trash.
Turn off the chat and facecamp some games using NOED. You'll have more fun. Make it about you. And only you. Tunnel the hell out of 1 person each game you play to better your odds.
Th3n watch them cry at the end. The typical concenses is only survivors are allowed to be toxic. You do it, and sit back with some popcorn and enjoy yourself.
Switch it up. Screw em.
What does that help, though? That just creates more toxic survivors that are convinced that killers are Literally Satan and the cycle marches on. Also, you've now become the thing that used to piss you off and are just as bad as the instigators that used to upset you.
If a house is on fire, you're not going to fix the issue with a flamethrower. Of course, you're not going to be blamed for getting out of the house, either. Can't blame OP for wanting to quit at this rate. This kind of ######### is constant and it grates on you.
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@Thunderfrog said:
I don't always agree with Mandy but I do think too many people have gotten soft. I've slummed through League all chat and played in public Halo lobbies. You want toxic, go there. You won't come back here and complain that clicky clicky is anything but a good natured "have at thee!"
I'm not really a fan of the argument that "it doesn't bother me, so it shouldn't bother you either", nor "other things are worse than this, so this is fine." Issues existing in other communities doesn't mean we can't improve ours, considering that there are others that are better than DBD's and it's not an impossibility, and "I don't have an issue with this, therefore it isn't a problem and it's the people who don't like it need to get over it" has stood nipping at the heels of every form of social improvement that has ever existed. Like, if it doesn't bug you, that's genuinely great for you, but what's wrong with the fact that it's not the same for everyone else? I don't see what ambivalent people lose by making the game friendlier and less detrimental to people who don't want to constantly deal with hostile behavior. It should only an issue to the people who want to misbehave and routinely piss people off with the way they act, right?
Like, when you load into a match as a survivor, would you rather play against a killer that's enjoying the game, or a killer that's pissed off and ready to take out their frustration from the last game's batch of survivors on you? As killer, would you rather play against some survivors looking to have fun, or some survivors that are trying to make your game as miserable as possible because they think it's funny (and because they've justified that you deserve it somehow?) This is the kind of thing that stands to universally improve if this place had an attitude glow-up.
Seriously, it's standout to me that everyone in the DBD community hates each other. It's more than just a balance thing, it's very frequently a personal vendetta against "the other side" and the people who identify with the other tribe. That is not a healthy environment and it signals something has gone wrong along the way.