Kwikwitted
Kwikwitted
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@Heartbound said:
I'm a casual player, but I believe ranking only shows how much time you play a month. Those teams will still be there, and you'll know when you run into them.
Supposedly you're gonna have a rating that'll put you in where you should be. Which is kinda sad for me because I like playing low rank games. (Lately I've been getting red rank survivors at rank 13 killer. Yeah sure I'll kill'em but I want to meme with clueless rank 20s kthx)
It would be cool if they added a slider though that told the system you wanna fight people with a high rating though.
I'll respectfully disagree as just playing a lot is no guarantee of a pip, particularly for killer. I would concede that the way ranking works now with only going back to rank 5 it's actually not that bad to get back into at least red ranks again, so maintenance is easier, but getting back to rank 1 is still 20 pips you need to acquire and the requirements at those ranks are pretty stringent and the survivors you're going to face are going to play optimal more often than not.
I understand the idea of the rating matching me up with survivors of similar MMR, but having nothing to work towards is the problem, and no visible way to chronicle progress just makes it feel empty and repetitive.
It reminds me of years ago when I played World of Warcraft seriously (yes, I'm a nerd, fight me) and was used to playing in Top 50 and Top 100 US level guilds but had to try more casual raiding later because of life commitments (for those that don't know, playing WoW at a high level back in the day required not only a high level of skill and practice, but tons of time to farm materials for consumables for each raid night). I very quickly realized that unless I'm playing at a top end level I just don't enjoy it, I would get mad at teammates for not playing optimally, I would get frustrated at lack of progress, it just didn't work.
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With certain killers this is definitely one of the more viable strategies. Trapper and Hag immediately come to mind and someone like Myers this is a good strategy as well as he requires similar levels of setup.
You can make it even better by using Corrupt Intervention to limit the effective map for the first two minutes as well.
I would say that it is far from optimal for killers with good map pressure. In other words, this is a terrible idea on Hillbilly or Freddy, as you would be effectively neutering what makes them so strong, and basically playing into the survivors hands.
It also has to be said, a 3 gen is usually only effective when at least one survivor is dead, trying to 3 gen with four alive survivors is just a war of attrition and you will eventually lose without very good juggling and slugging.
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I made a thread detailing this same issue.
@Kwikwitted said:
Can we PLEASE do something where killers get credit for 3 hooks if survivors:
1) Kill themselves on the hooks.
2) Disconnect.
Over and over the same nonsense, easily playing well enough to ruthless, gens haven't been flying, good pressure, lots of downs, two dead. Problem is the Nancy raged when she got hit through a pallet so she killed herself on the second hook and the baby Dwight just randomly raged on the first hook or maybe he's a baby so he doesn't realize that's a dumb idea. So either way now I've got two survivors dead with only 3 hook actions through no fault of my own, I didn't camp them, I didn't tunnel them, I did literally nothing but play the game. So now I go after the big booty Jane cause it is my duty to chase that booty (yes I love and hate myself for this, fight me bro) and down her, of course now she rages and disconnects so the fourth player gets the hatch. GG, you played well enough to easily win, here's a brutal killer for your trouble cause your devotion and malicious scores are in the toilet.
And this is hardly the only problem with the ridiculous emblem system. Gatekeeper is a complete joke with current generator speeds. Apparently a Trapper or Hag isn't supposed to trap and area and defend a 3-4 gen, they're supposed to defend that one gen on the other side of the map cause otherwise here comes the bronze/silver "gatekeeper" even if you do get a 4k.
Malicious penalizes the killer when survivors heal, are you actually serious right now? Seriously? There are times as a killer you HAVE to let survivors go heal in order to pressure gens. Can this ridiculous system please take into account that sometimes I'm going to have to intentionally let someone go heal themselves in order to actually stop the other three of opening the gates? Please?
Devout as I've said is a joke, 9 hooks for iridescent that doesn't take into account if survivors kill themselves on hook or disconnect, screwing killers just cause survivors throw a tantrum and don't want to play a game out. Technically a 2k is a draw right? Shouldn't 7 hook actions be a win for me in that regard then? It's over 50% of the max?
Chaser is the one that's probably least screwed up and seems to be usually relatively accurate though I'm sure others who are smarter than me can attest to this one better than I.
Now, if my drill sergeants in basic did anything, they drilled into our heads "don't come to us with only a problem, come with a potential solution" so here they are.
Gatekeeper - Eliminate the per generator score generation, it's moronic because some killers just can't defend seven generators simultaneously. Instead make it actually how it sounds, how long did it take for survivors to complete generators and open the exit gates. This would stop penalizing 3-4 generator strategies and stop needlessly punishing killers who need to play with area control in order to be effective.
Malicious - Remove the healing penalty, again, it's part of the strategic nature of managing four survivors as a killer, there is plenty of time letting one player run to the corner of the map where there are no generators to heal while I deal his three friends all doing generators. Besides in keeping with the lore, assuming these killers and the entity are sadists, wouldn't you want them to heal so you could injure them all over again?
Devout - This is the biggest one, if a survivor kills themselves on hook or at the very least disconnects, the killer gets credit for three hooks from that survivor automatically. This removes some of the power survivors have in screwing over killers trying to pip. To counterbalance this you could double the struggle time on second hook or even double the time on first hook to struggle hook in order to dissuade camping for a free 3 hooks off one hook, no killer in his right mind except Bubba (and he's not in his right mind, let's be real) is going to sit there for four minutes and even if they do, the survivors will be waving at the exit gates long before that timer is over. Multiple hooks still put survivors in struggle and death hook respectively so you aren't penalizing killers to hook multiple times.
Ok rant over, I get it, this game isn't competitive, but there is nothing more frustrating that trying to win only to get screwed because the other people you play with in a PVP decided to cry, take their ball and go home.
basically TL:DR the easiest fix would be a disconnect or survivor dies on the first hook for any reason the game should award three hooks to the killer automatically. That way regardless of survivor action your devout score doesn't go into the tank. I also proposed fixes to gatekeeper and malicious.
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While I understand the sentiment as Heartbound described people invest into games as survivor and BP for that side is harder to come by, so it's not shocking they were upset at the plug getting pulled suddenly, particularly when they were clearly about to win. It's like when you get your first down in a game and two people immediately DC, now you're stuck with a game that will be at best a safety pip because two people wanted to be salty and yeet out of the game.
If you know you're going to take the loss anyway, might as well get the points for more addons and perks, if not for this killer other killers. And if you're going to DC, I wouldn't hang around in after-game chat to see what people will say to you, that's kind of inviting the toxic.
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Inb4 BHVR changes the randomization of maps to ensure Deathslinger never gets sent to Badham, even if someone uses a map offering.
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Oh that happens, you probably accidentally read it as "let 12 generators be repaired in 3 games" and if that's the case, legion's your man/woman/person, along with poor Clown.
I keed, I keed.
As for OP's suggestion, I agree completely, either that or have some kind of notification pop up when you queue for killer with a survivor challenge active saying something like "do you want to switch this before you queue for the wrong role you idiot?"
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True, always thought it was a missed opportunity that they didn't have unique terror radius music, they could even make different songs for Frank/Julie/Joey/Susie. As we've seen with newer killers like Oni and Deathslinger they are certainly open to the fact.
My only concern is that BHVR would be too cheap to actually pay for the license rights to the music, and as such we would get some soulless, public option version of that song instead, but honestly the generic music for Doctor, Oni, and Deathslinger sound pretty good so I would be down for it.
Your username is excellent by the way, I want a version of Demogorgon now that everytime he jumps with shred he screams "IT'S ######### RAW!!!!"
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I've hit rank 1 playing sets of completely different killers and completely different playstyles from the pre-ruin and post-ruin eras.
Hardly something no one else has done, but it puts me in a weird place because I do believe the game has some imbalances on the killer side that makes playing even green ranks an absolute sweatfest a lot of the time, but in the same breath if I could get to rank 1 I think most people could if they honestly took a look at their mistakes and worked to improve.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
The last few patches have been all about killers 😂
If you actually believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
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@AshleyWB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166597#Comment_1166597
If it takes you 4 minutes to do gens... It takes 4 minutes to do gens. The rank of the killer doesn't matter because once someone is in a chase everyone else can...wait for it...Do Gens.
I don't see what is so hard to understand.
This is exclusively a swf problem. Solo queue Survivor is a completely different story.
Are you implying that solo queue survivors don't know to do gens when one survivor is getting chased?
What ranks do you play where that isn't the case.
The point was this Oni has literally one perk, is clearly very new to the game and definitely the killer, and is a poor argument for this problem. And posting stupid stuff like this actually defeats the argument he is trying to make. The fact that the SWF team is red/purple ranks makes this all the worse.
Now if this was a rank appropriate killer with rank appropriate perks and he still got skunked this bad it might hold some merit, but it's not. It's a baby killer who got bullied, which is frustrating to see, but it doesn't prove the point about generator speed.
The other factor is I'm sure the chases were long and pointless for the killer, a good killer that can limit chases effectively wouldn't spend all four-five gens chasing one survivor without downing them. That's the other point, as cliche as it sounds, if you can end chases quickly and pressure survivors, generator speed isn't quite the insurmountable obstacle it appears to be.
What's even dumber is the "perkless" for survivors doesn't mean much when the killer was essentially perkless too. Perks mean way more to killers as they often affect the whole survivor team or the entire map, while survivor perks are often individual based or at most affect a teammate being healed or unhooked. To pretend that survivors and killers need perks in equal measure is false.
Like I said, this particular example does nothing to show the problem, and if anything actually makes the problem easier to blame on baby killers or people not knowing what to do.
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@Aura_babyy said:
I mean aside from all the "haha nice bait comments"
This is why we eat DS early kids! Tune in next time on how to counter NOED in 5 easy steps!
I don't know if intentionally eating 5 second stuns is the best tactic either, you will waste a lot of time not to mention the metric ton of flaming you're going to get for "tunneling".
@OP
Yeah, this is a good example of why DS just being 60 seconds of immunity from getting picked up, regardless of circumstance, is a pretty broken setup. It should disable the second I hook someone else but this is the world we live in.
For the record I also hate playing Doc, too bad I'm playing him all day today to get this stupid 4k challenge, and then I will have completed all the killer challenges.
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I think the intention is they are more for getting that last little bit done on a priority gen a little faster, but they aren't going to last through 3 gens anymore. So while not as useful as they once were, they can be helpful for finishing a gen you are concerned may get regressed thanks to pop goes the weasel or something.
And as Danu and Spannungsstob said, toolboxes are more for enabling sabotage now, but really unless all four survivors are running with the intention of going full sabo it's not really that difficult to deal with for killers.
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@MegaWaffle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1167547#Comment_1167547
"Become better" (Git Gud)
"Mildly satisfying game, difficulty level simplistic" (GGEZ)
There I have adjusted the two most common responses.
I'm a little confused why you quoted my post, I'm not the one even remotely triggered by either of those statements. In fact I would argue there is a lot of instances where the answer truly is "git gud".
I think I would laugh if I saw "Mildly satisying game, difficulty level simplistic" in an after-game chat. I could only picture the survivor sipping tea and also saying "hmm, yes reginald, particularly dull and simplistic, also shallow and pedantic".
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Claims "I'm not a snowflake" then proceeds to get ultra-triggered by a "git gud" response. Hmmm......
I read these forums quite regularly, I don't think I've seen one where EVERY response was "git gud". Is there some level of trolls and toxicity? Sure, welcome to online gaming forums, I'm guessing this is your first one? Cause overall these ones are actually pretty tame and the mods do regulate contributions, sometimes a little more overzealous than they should. I got put in timeout for a week for literally typing out a Billy Madison joke cause I was invoking "religious overtones". For those curious, it's the part during the academic competition where Billy tells that ridiculous puppy story to describe economics.
TL: DR. Online gaming forums have a certain level of toxicity, ignore those posters, and focus on constructive responses.
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@Demonl3y said:
Why you want to derank ? Just to have a easy game and destroy the fun of others ? Why you even play DbD then?
While I agree that de-ranking when you're already rank 16 is pretty scummy, not to mention highly unnecessary, a lot of killers in particular de-rank because they don't want to play sweaty tryhard every single game against very optimal survivors. It takes a special kind of masochistic to want to go into every game knowing 3-4 mistakes and you're probably losing.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1167429#Comment_1167429
I only do that if I'm Billy or everyone injured. I don't just let survivors free escape for no reason. That's just my competetive nature I guess.
Hit the nail on the head.
As others have said the only time I will camp a hook if at endgame, particularly if there's only one other active survivor. At that point I will lose more from leaving the hook and potentially letting two escape than just letting one escape. I'm wiling to make a trade if the survivor really wants to try for the hook. May suck for that guy on the hook, but from a purely tactical standpoint that is the smart play.
Survivors cry about it because they don't see it from the killer's perspective, securing a 2k/3k could be the difference between brutal killer and ruthless killer, and for someone like me that matters. Yes, I am a sweaty tryhard who likes trying to rank 1 every single month because it's the only way I really have fun is trying to win as hard as I can. I don't get mad when survivors use flashlights or body block, that's them doing everything they can to win.
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I'd have to question what ranks you're playing at if you're getting 4k's consistently with that build. Iron Grasp and Iron Maiden are "why even have a perk in that slot" levels of useless, so I can only assume you are going against straight up potatoes if you're getting 4k's with basically two semi-useful perks and two completely useless ones. What do you do for finding survivors if discordance never goes off? Seems like a lot of mindlessly walking from gen to gen with that build, but to each their own.
As far as Legion's overall setup his ability is just not very threatening. You can't down anyone in frenzy so really he just benefits from injuring multiple survivors then hopefully downing a couple before they get the chance to heal up. If he gets off to a good start he can pressure like crazy, an initial frenzy with three injuries can really put a team of survivors on the back foot giving legion a chance to get some downs and hooks. The problem is if they stay spread he really is just an M1 killer with a quick first injure and still has to M1 chase to finish for a down and hook. Add in the massive penalty for missing a frenzy stab and it's pretty easy to see why he's not the strongest. That said he's probably a lower mid-tier killer, he's similar to plague in a lot of ways. Both essentially excel at keeping survivors injured or broken but have to rely on basic M1 chases to finish a down and hook.
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Was it fun? Meh, kinda?
Was it effective? Good lord yes.
Though now with how wonky dedicated servers are I have no idea if it would work as well since gen grabs are almost impossible now.
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So Hi, actual Killer main here, red ranks at minimum each month, and I gotta say.....
This is such a great example of a whole bunch of words that say absolutely nothing.
"Nobody can teach you when to leave a chase or commit, it's something you need to learn." Yeah no kidding genius lol.
What's even dumber about this is your whole "just pressure the gens bro" thrust of this post would actually pair well with new Hex: Ruin which rewards the killer for pushing survivors off generators constantly as it increases regression, and is actually quite effective on killers who didn't use Ruin in the first place like Hillbilly. Ironically new Ruin and Surveillance is a very strong combo that you fail to mention. Is it risky with a hex totem? Sure, but all perks have some inherent drawbacks, and with survivors usually ignoring totems to gen rush now you'll find Ruin lasting quite a while.
Now onto your other perk choices, you have some decent nuggets in here, Surge/Surveillance is a decent combo, as Otz showed in one of his builds with pig, but infectious fright is really just a perk for Oni and Billy or Maybe Myers to let them snowball when their insta-downs are up, it's not really going to work on all killers.
Um, are you actually suggesting using Iron Maiden and Mad Grit? I mean Iron Maiden MAYBE as a Huntress since she benefits from quicker locker times but really? This right here is why everyone is saying "don't take the bait" in response to your thread. If this is a troll post, you played yourself here, if it's legit, this is right where no one will take you seriously.
I'm all ears is a detection perk that defeats itself since it often goes off in a chase when you already know where a survivor is anyway, and survivors don't tend to do rushed actions outside of chases since they know there's a notification that goes off.
M&A is a great perk on a lot of killers, particularly Myers, nothing new there and Pop has been mentioned already.
What's weird is you're completely overlooking much more meta perks that have become incredibly common now which makes me question your credentials to instruct killer mains. No mention of Corrupt Intervention? A.K.A. the effective replacement for Ruin particularly among area of effect killers like Hag and Trapper? How about Thrilling Tremors which blocks generators not being worked on allowing killers to see exactly what generator their pop goes the weasel would be best used on?
You mention cutting down on chase times and no mention of play with your food or save the best for last? Two perks that can enhance chasing potential significantly once built up?
So yeah, in conclusion, either low quality bait or someone who shouldn't be instructing killer mains in anything.
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@Irisora said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166597#Comment_1166597
The devs "balance" the game around rank 20 survivors so why a rank 17 Oni that don't get any kill and get a 4 escape shouldn't be noted???
I mean it's a rank 15 Oni with one perk, if you balanced around that guy getting a 2k players like me would be the bane of survivors existences.
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Hmm, where's that one guy to clutch his pearls cause you made a coronavirus joke? He should be along shortly to tell you it's "too soon" or something.
Back to your rant, I agree that there is a difference between blatant whining and constructive feedback, and people on the forums should at least attempt some level of decorum. I know the mods do slap people with warnings and bans from time to time, so they are trying to regulate the content.
That said, your rant will do nothing to change this, and DBD's community is no more toxic than league of legends or fortnite, if anything it's probably less so. Online gaming communities will never be what I would call "wholesome" and letting it bother you to this degree is just an exercise in futility.
TL: DR.
Chill, it's not worth getting that worked up over.
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@hex_genrush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166588#Comment_1166588
We were all purple rank and red rank and the killer was rank 17
Um, that doesn't support your argument, if anything it pretty much negates it.
Look, I'm a killer main and I agree generator speed is kind of a pain right now, but a match against what is basically a baby killer while your team is red and purple is pretty bad at showing this. If anything it's just another example of BHVR's terrible matchmaking.
It's hard to determine if the reason you guys pop 3 gens quickly is cause of game mechanics or more the fact that this Oni is clearly still learning.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166473#Comment_1166473
It makes me smile when someone calls me survivor sided. I got blamed for beeing killer sided aswell the either day and in the past.
The only side i am on is the ballance side. I think a 2K on average is a fair outcome of a match but since i play killer a lot, i know for sure that 2k is the absolut minimum i get in every game. I also see it as a survivor that many killer get normally a 2K or better.
Like you say, Instaheals were overpowered, and they are gone. That makes it more easy now for killers.
Well what perks are nerfed? Mettle of men for example. Or Ballanced landing. DH got nerfed through Dedicated server.
Mentioning dedicated servers: What a wonderful gift for killers and what a nightmare for survivors. A big buff for killers without even toughing the game itself.
Yes, the new maps and reworks are killersided, so this is also an improvement for killers. There was no better time for killer according to maps as it is now. Farm got nerfed in the past (walls, corn) for good reason.
Some of your maps your named are actually killer sided. Crotus prenn for example. Chapel is defintily killer sided (while asylum is survivor sided). McMillian are pretty even overall. Ormond, i give you that, that map is definitly survivor sided. But whats up with Game? Lerys? Lab? Shelter Woods? Rotten fields? Sanctum of Wraith? Saloon? Resting place? All killer sided without a doubt. Like i said, maps are getting better and better for the killer. And breakable walls incoming. The toolbox changes? Good for the killer aswell. I can go on and on.
I really thing it is only, and i mean ONLY because of this one perk that is not needed anyway. Ruin.
Use corrupt. Use pop. And dont get nervous when a gen pops quicker then expected.
If a 2k was a pip for a killer I would be inclined to agree with you, but it's not, a 2k is a safety pip unless it's something like Legion and you just pimped your malicious score to high heaven to compensate for your devout score being in the toilet.
So maybe instead of just worrying about how many kills, we could see how much pressure killers are under to even get a single pip, let alone a double pip, and realize that's part of the problem. If killers could be more comfortable that a 2k is a decent job on their part it might work, but it isn't, it's a 3k minimum with hopefully enough generators protected so your gatekeeper score isn't in the toilet, and let's hope no one decided to die on their first hook screwing your devout score over. Honestly the emblem system in its current state is why no one is buying the "2k is a balanced win for both sides" argument, because survivors can get pips for 1.5 generators worked one, a couple chases, 1-2 unhooks and even get sacrificed AND STILL pip.
Now here's what's funny, you agree with me that insta-heals were overpowered, but what was mettle of man? Admittedly you had to charge it up by taking hits but it was a free extra health state with no indication that you had it. The amount of kills I have lost at endgame because "oh look, he has mettle of man and I had no way to know it" is beyond infuriating.
Balanced landing is still one of the better exhaustion perks, even with the nerf. Does it beat dead hard or sprint burst? Maybe not in overall utility, but it's absolutely destructive if that survivor brings a map offering for something like Haddonfield. To pretend it is somehow useless now is silly.
Oh wow, you think dedicated servers are a benefit for KILLERS? You serious right now? Have you TRIED getting a grab off a generator since dedicated servers have gone live? If you get one, let me know, because the sheer amount of times the grab animation starts only to end abruptly and the survivor just starts to run away is beyond counting at this point. Dedicated servers have been a disaster for BOTH sides, I would never lay that at survivors feet as a benefit to them, and this right here is the clearest indicator of your bias, you assume that because dedicated servers suck for survivors they must be good for killers when they have been just as big of a pain, or even more so, for killers.
And again, in one breath McMillan are pretty even overall, and then magically Shelter woods is "killer sided without a doubt". Okay, how about Ironworks of Infinites or the Groaning Storehouse of "go fornicate yourself" window spawns? Chapel on Crotus Penn is balanced, too bad disturbed ward is about as balanced as a drunk one-legged man. People pretending Saloon is somehow extremely killer sided just because a killer can turn the central loop into something manageable with wall breaks need to get their head examined.
The toolbox change is actually WORSE for killers now, because people front load their toolboxes to get a head start, which is what the new toolboxes are designed for, less charges but more impact on one generator, so once again, generators pop at the first couple mins, putting killers into full sweaty mode. Not to mention survivors get to KEEP toolboxes now upon escape, meaning killers see more and more of them. Again, your ignorance for how changes actually affect killers confirms your bias, because you haven't looked at this stuff from the other side, while I have played survivor on all these maps in question.
And again, I don't need your suggestions on how to compensate for Ruin. As I said in my first post in this thread, most killers have adapted at the red ranks anyway, and most of us haven't used ruin in months or even years because it was red ranks can hit great skill checks. I'm well aware of corrupt intervention and pop, I mentioned pop in my first post, pairs well with thrilling tremors to block off unworked gens, showing you worked ones that will get the best value from your kick regression. I am not the one who was completely boned by Ruin's removal, it's green and even purple rank killers who needed it. The irony is Ruin was destroyed to help newer survivor players, while completely screwing over newer killer players, the result is survivors getting carried to red ranks while killers either quitting or just staying in the green ranks.
Ruin was needed for certain killers and newer killer players to get their bearings in the early game, the removal of it has made killer such a stressful playtime for newer killers that it is turning newer players off and even red rank killer mains just don't want to have every game be a tryhard sweatfest anymore.
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I've done this before when I had an AFK and then a death on first hook. The Dwight and Nancy continued to play until I found the Nancy and hooked her, and the Dwight came for the rescue and stopped and looked at me, I kind of tried to motion to "go ahead" before he unhooked and healed her, then I proceeded to chase and down him and let Nancy unhook and rescue. Once they were both on death hook they kind of stared at me not sure what I would do next, I kind of motioned for them to follow and I let them do all the generators save 1. Then I killed them both but they were able to both pip (they didn't have items so they lost nothing from the death) and I got to pip thanks to the 6 extra hooks and extra hits.
I'm fine with working with survivors who got screwed by others, what I am not fine with is entitled survivors who think that just cause I took out their three teammates I am required to give them the hatch or let them open the exit gates. Nah bro, I earned my 4k, I'm gonna take that 4k.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/138410/why-should-you-play-killer
I enjoy it, acutally more then ever. And i dont understand all the complains here. What did they really change that makes killer mains so upset? Ruin? A perk that got cleansed within 30 seconds. Nurse? A totally broken auto 4K killer. Still extremly strong. Spirit? More then needed, also still very strong.
Map reworks and new maps are all favouring the killer or are at least even, Instaheals are history, many overpowered survivor perks are nerfed. New killers are all very good. We have the time of our DbD live, but many of us are upset because of nothing.
Stop the mimimi and enjoy the game.
The change was that before Ruin could actually hamper generator progression while a survivor was working on it, as opposed to now where it does have a significant regression percentage, but only functions when you push survivors off a generator, and immediately stops when they are back on.
As I said in my post (which made this very clear) even if ruin lasted only a minute, that was 60 seconds survivors weren't doing generators while they were looking for a totem, which made the game much more balanced in the early game for killers who had time to find a survivor and get a hook or two before 1-2 generators popped. It also enabled killers with setup time (Trapper, Hag, Myers) to get their power started, either through laying traps or at least stalking to EW2.
As far as Nurse, I never played her so I didn't really feel anything from her change, but the Nurse mains that did play her (and some like Ardetha who still do) have stated the playstyle is just stun simulator with occasional bursts of gameplay, and her blink recharge game has just made her clunky.
Don't know why we're discussing spirit, who hasn't been mentioned in this thread once (same with nurse but I digress) but she was nerfed into a relatively balanced spot and her most infuriating tactic (prayer beads and gen grabbing) was eliminated and people still play her. If anything I see survivors still complaining about spirit when they claim she has "no counterplay" even though she is able to be juked by anyone with the wherewithal to understand when she phases and when she doesn't.
Map reworks and new maps have been killer sided I will agree, but it doesn't stop maps like most of Crotus Penn, Macmillan, Coldwind Farm, and especially Ormond from being infuriating to deal with, whether it's infinite loops, or extremely safe loops that can't be mind gamed, to the sheer size of these maps making even a 3-gen strategy relatively unrealistic. I also take some issue with the idea that Deathslinger's map is completely killer sided, it's got an almost haddonfield level of drops that anyone with balanced landing can destroy a killer on, the breakable walls don't eliminate any loops but just make the central windows no longer borderline infinite, and there is often a balcony next to the outer generators forcing killers to try and mindgame before a survivor jumps down and completely loses them.
Insta-heals were broken and everyone knew it, the idea that you could just ignore a hit from a killer at a critical moment with no warning or ability to counterplay was stupid on its face. Not sure what overpowered survivor perks you are discussing that got nerfed. DS is still 60 seconds of immunity from being hooked regardless of actions after getting hooked, unbreakable still completely counters slugging, adrenaline is still the bane of late game while NOED can be countered through totem cleanses, and dead hard is still the king of making killers tear their hair out as that survivor who was rightly caught just goes "lol nope" and dashes to safety. Which perks got nerfed that you are referring to specifically might I ask?
Based on your comments your bias is clearly survivor sided, and I get it, for survivors the game is probably the best its ever been, particularly with keeping addons upon survival making the BP cost of maining survivor so much less burdensome. Killer players do have legit gripes however, and I would think survivors would realize something is up when red rank survivors are paired with green rank killers, clearly something has gone wrong with a lack of killers at high ranks.
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I can only speak from the high end, as this is the second month in a row I've hit rank 1 in the post "ruin" era after taking a couple months off. It can be done, it's just harder than it's ever been.
The loss of Ruin was a bigger issue than the devs have ever acknowledged. What Ruin did was far more than just an early game generator slowdown perk, it tended to force survivors to look for totems as a secondary objective, leaving generators intact for at least 1-2 mins, this gave the killer time to get a hook or two and begin to apply pressure while the searching for the totem also put the killer into more contact with survivors out searching. Overall this created an early game that was more healthy and balanced.
Now survivors know that they have no reason not to immediately upon entry into the game plunk themselves down and start holding M1, there is no secondary objective, and the generators are everything. In turn this has meant that killers lose 1-2 generators in the first couple mins, putting them on the backfoot and forcing them into so much more stress than they ever were in before.
So how do killers deal with this? The best have adapted their play styles to incorporate more pressure style tactics. These would include.
- Tactical slugging, in other words not going for a 4-slug but leaving 1-2 survivors on the ground in order to force survivors off gens to pick up their people.
- 50% of perk loadouts being devoted to generator regression or slowdown. Combos like Thrilling and Pop Goes the Weasel or the New Ruin and Surveillance seem popular and I've used both quite regularly on different killers.
- Heading into games immediately looking for a 3-5 generator patrol route and just accepting 1-2 generators will be done by survivors without challenge, this enables the killers to control what the field of play will look like.
- Use of mangled status to slow down healing, whether through sloppy butcher, or addons, to waste longer amounts of time for survivors to heal, giving killers breathing room.
As mentioned, this is coming from the perspective of someone who plays red ranks with the intention of winning above all else, these tactics may not be the most fun, but I find fun in succeeding, and opinions will vary. If you are fine with having fun and de-pipping I'm happy for you, but I have no desire to play that way.
I don't know what the game feels like for newer killers. I will say that when I play survivor at the 15+ ranks because I'm still leveling on that side the killers tend to win quite hard. The game's trouble is that killers dominate when survivors don't know what they're doing and make tons of mistakes, but when survivors are optimal, such as at red ranks, killers can only do so much to compensate, but the few that are still succeeding have found ways to do it.
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@Beardedragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1164681#Comment_1164681
Playing another killer and just slamming BP in to the ONI for start perks and level 15 isnt actually that bad of an idea.
That's pretty much standard procedure. I didn't touch Deathslinger until he was at least level 35 with some decent perks, otherwise it's just a stomp, particularly because I play at red ranks.
I used to never even consider playing a killer until I had at least BBQ and Chili and Ruin on them, just to give me a chance as I learned how to play them.
One of the biggest problems with the ranking system is they treat survivor and killer the same when they clearly aren't.
Each killer plays quite differently, and should have individual killer rankings, survivors are literally just different skins over the same abilities.
You can also burn iridescent shards at the shrine of secrets on perks you already own for a quick 150k BP, but keep in mind shards buy things BP cannot.
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@TragicSolitude said:
The game has a design problem at its core. The devs say the first three gens are supposed to pop quickly, then the game slows down as the killer only has four gens to patrol. There are a couple problems with this, though.
One, it's demoralizing for the killer, because it just feels like the survivors are breezing through their objective. The killer either gives up (I've seen this plenty), going afk, or they feel stressed; neither of these states is conducive to a sense of "fun." It's not like the game at any point teaches killers the finer points of gen pressure, so the average player who isn't hanging out on these forums is not going to see three gens popping early on as anything other than a match-losing failure on their part.
Two, it's only easier for the killer to patrol the last four gens if those four gens are near each other. If the survivors pay attention, then the final generators are across the map from each other.
This definitely hammers home some of the issues, the other ties right into it which is map design.
7 generators to patrol wouldn't be as much of an issue if some of the maps weren't MASSIVE. Ormond, Crotus Penn, Coldwind Farm all come to mind for having generators literally miles from each other.
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I love how one thread on the front page is telling us why Deathslinger is OP, and another is telling us why Deathslinger is terrible.
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I like the fact that when I climb to rank 1 each month it's based on what I did, and I alone. I wasn't carried to red ranks, I managed the addons, I played the games, I dealt with the setbacks, and I got through all of it to once again see that skull over my emblem.
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I haven't noticed any issues with affording addons on the killer side, and don't survivors get to escape with their items now even if they deplete them?
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Some joke about heaven doesn't want me and hell's afraid I'll take over.
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"I did minimal effort, give me stuff"
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I honestly can't tell if this is a troll, or some kind of weird false flag from a survivor main who thinks this is how killer mains speak about the game.
I agree the game has problems, but pointless threads like these don't help, it's just mindless ranting without discussing any specific issues, or providing any realistic suggestions.
If you had some suggestion regarding generator speeds, map sizes, etc. that might be worthwhile, as it stands your thread is actually a waste of time.
And then the random Doom Eternal reference at the end is just bizarre.
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Honestly I tolerate SWF, I understand the purpose of it, and as much as killer mains like myself may not like it, it's good for the continued interest in the game. It also makes the game more "twitch friendly" as streamers can play with subscribers and fans which gives the game more visibility for better or worse.
SWF isn't necessarily toxic, that's more on the players themselves to choose to be toxic, but it does shift the balance of power even harder in the direction of survivors, and makes killers sweat about 4x harder out of their pores.
I think most killers would agree that as long as there was some kind of compensation for playing against an SWF, such as more bloodpoints, lower emblem thresholds, or something else than it wouldn't be an issue. The part that drives me up a wall is sweating my literal cojones off to get a 2k and still getting greeted with a brutal like I struggled against some group of randoms.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1164714#Comment_1164714
Thats an assumption as like I said I've never used it. Not once ever. I fact I haven't even unlocked Laurie's perks as I find them all a bit useless and unfun to use. I also said that I'm rarely slugged so......
I don't need it as I play smart. Being aware of surrounding and planning escape routes using sight and sound to my advantage and actually trying to lose a killer.
It's not always about what the killer thinks you have but how well you can play to avoid being caught in the first place and most don't expect you to try and lose them and just follow a loop trail.
Yes dude you're so amazing you don't need DS, thanks, point duly noted.
Now if we can get back to the actual point I was making...
Whether you need DS or not is irrelevant, the point was because 1-2 survivors on your team run it, the killer expects it on everyone. As soon as a killer sees an obsession they assume there is at least one DS in the game, likely more than one, and thus will play around it.
DS is such a powerful perk even those that don't use it benefit from its residual effect that every killer assumes you're running it, even when you're not.
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@BadGalLexC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1164721#Comment_1164721
Well I don’t know what you play on but the information isn’t staggering or incorrect. I didn’t say that it would make the key disappear but the chances of finding where they key was dropped is slim; coming from a main console survivor. Furthermore there are more people playing solo than in swf to nerf how many people can escape with a key.
and unless you run plunders the chances of finding a key is about slightly higher than your chance to escape off the hook
Ahem, your exact quote.
"as a killer if you don’t want to chance that run franklins and one hit and their key is gone."
It's not hard to find a dropped item as the game prompts you to pick it up when you walk over it, you don't even need to be right on top of it so yes, you were objectively wrong.
Second, this isn't a conversation about SWF or solo, the point was keys skew the game for survivors just as bad if not more so than a Mori will skew the game for killers.
Third, I don't give two halves of a flying (BAD WORD) whether it's a 4% chance or a 1% chance, the point still stands survivors can find a key in a chest, something that does not happen with a Mori under any circumstance.
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@BadGalLexC said:
I think this is merely an opinion I think keys are fine, as a killer if you don’t want to chance that run franklins and one hit and their key is gone. I find that killers 4K or close hatch more times than a survivor can escape with a key.
Moris benefit killers so I highly doubt devs will remove them.
Wow, the amount of disinformation here is staggering.
1) Franklin does not "remove" keys in any capacity, it simply makes the survivor drop said key, which can then be picked up by any other survivor during the match.
2) Keys don't have to be brought into the match, as they can be found in chests, so the idea of "just bring Franklin's" doesn't hold weight. And even if I have Franklin's, there's no guarantee I will come across the survivor who FOUND the key in a chest before they find the hatch. If you think that level of RNG is fair for any side you're clearly bias.
"I find that killers 4k or close hatch more times than a survivor can escape with a key"
Really cause I find the exact opposite, I will often end up with a defendable three gen before I suddenly watch three survivor icons go from normal to escaped with no chance for me to do anything about it. Was I supposed to psychically know they had decided to hunt for a key instead of finishing the last gen? How do I acquire this psychic knowledge exactly?
"Moris benefit killers so I highly doubt devs will remove them"
Ok, bias confirmed, if you actually think the devs favor killers over the survivors who throw out oodles of cash for cosmetics, not to mention the thousands of wannabe twitch morons who main survivor you're actually delusional.
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@twistedmonkey said:
Never used DS as I've never needed it but I generally see at least 1 but normally 2 in my lobby.
I did use unbreakable for a bit but I only seemed to get slugged if I'm not running it funnily enough.
The reason you don't need it is as you said, there's normally 1 to 2 people using it in your lobby.
Killers are conditioned that if we see one obsession and we didn't run an obsession perk, the assumption is that all survivors have DS, so many survivors are realizing they can run something else and killers will still respect the phantom DS because we can't be sure, it's not like there's a neon sign above the survivor that says "will stab if grabbed within 60 seconds of hook".
@OP
Your experience may vary, but as a killer main I see these perks regularly. I'd say the top 4 I see most often that directly impact games would be dead hard, DS (at least one person which means I'm respecting it on everyone), adrenaline, and unbreakable (at least one in every SWF will carry it to counter 4-man slug).
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@Dehitay said:
The vast majority of killers would gladly get rid of all one down perks and addons in exchange for getting rid of all second chance stuff for survivors.l
This.
Eliminate keys and Mori offerings, neither side should get to alter the rules due to an addon, you still need three hooks to die, you also have to do five generators to open a way out until only one remains.
Eliminate the horrendously survivor and killer sided maps for both sides.
Eliminate NOED but give killers a decent early game generator slowdown perk.
Make DS de-activate when another survivor is hooked and thus the killer is by definition not "tunneling".
Boom, you just solved 85% of the problems these forums discuss daily.
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Honestly if it just de-activated when I hook someone else that would easily be enough, you could keep its current duration.
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I personally got there running the following.
BBQ and Chili
Monitor and Abuse
Hex: Ruin (yes, the new one)
Surveillance
Addons: Iridescent Button (Best) Cold Dirt (Second Best), Stolen Sketchbook (Third Best)
Playstyle: You're goal is to continually harass survivors off gens, starting their regression and highlighting them with surveillance, after two to three gens are highlighted this way you will have a lot of information about which gens survivors are trying to finish. With Iridescent button your terror radius affects the whole map so often survivors will let go of a gen for a second and then get back on, which highlights it because it regressed for a second with ruin and then highlighted by surveillance.
You want everyone injured constantly using your frenzy and cold dirt to have lots of uptime. The Monitor and Abuse is to sneak up on already injured survivors. BBQ and Chili helps with additional location assistance as well as keeping your BP up to afford more and more addons.
The other major factor is map offerings. When I climbed to rank 1 with legion I abused map offerings like crazy. Hawkins and Lery's were my primary go to map offerings as hawkins is in general the best killer map in the game and lery's suits legion well as vaulting isn't really a problem for him and lery's is lacking in pallets. Lery's also usually has plenty of alternate routes to chase survivors through rooms as well.
Good luck.
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@Rivyn said:
Because it would require work. They've said they want to 'balance as they go,' and 'if a new perk seems to favor swf, they won't do it.' That's easier than going back over components already in place and adjusting them. I know they could do it, Kindred is a great example, but it's really their only example, sadly.
OOO says hi.
A basic location perk for survivors in a solo queue.
A complete knowledge of the killers movements at all times in an SWF with comms.
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@Deadman316 said:
Thanks for clearing this up, I thought sabotaging meant that you couldn't even deactivate them, so I just started avoiding them altogether.
No worries, I had a feeling this was the issue.
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@Mikey4Hire said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1163001#Comment_1163001
Plague needs a skin to earn for the event.
She comes with a complimentary protective mask she has to pull down when she vomits.
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I would actually argue the opposite, I see way more keys than I bring Mori's.
The reasoning is simple, Mori's mean I won't be pipping, so for me personally, I have no desire to bring them.
However, survivors have no such drawback, a key allows survivors to achieve their ultimate goal of escape significantly easier, particularly because the generator requirement to open the hatch (usually 2 generators) can be accomplished in the first two mins provided the survivors aren't potatoes.
I also have to announce my Mori at the start of a game, survivors may bring a key (which is hard to see at the loadout screen in the first place) or may find one during a game, usually right after I have setup a good 3-gen and then I just watch their icons switch to escaped, giving me a nice big middle finger in the process.
I would give up Mori's for keys to be removed from the game in a heartbeat, killer is already stressful enough, compensating for a survivor randomly finding a key in a chest mid-game is maddening.
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Trapper still has to literally go find his traps and set them up, usually giving up 1-2 generators in the process just to setup a competent 3-gen or 4-gen area of effect.
Second, you can still de-activate his traps, you just can't sabotage them and make them literally unable to be used for 1-3 minutes, which is actually taking away Trappers power, especially if god forbid he's going against an SWF with Object of Obsession.
Trappers were going to trap the same spots regardless of change to sabotage because those spots either shut down loops or are common thoroughfares for survivors as they move around the map, no amount of changes was going to dissuade that idea.
Trapper deals with enough problems right now, he always starts on the back foot and ends up behind on generators constantly, at least allowing him full use of all his traps throughout the game was a needed change.
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@HealsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1162573#Comment_1162573
Respectfully, I call bull. You have an ingame option to report players who are trolling- which is what this killer(s) were doing. IDC if a killer slugs, that a viable tactic- I'm not reporting for that, and neither should anyone.
What I will report is when the killer downs everyone and never hooks a survivor. Even if we all bleed out and give the killer their victory, if they proceed to taunt and show that they're doing it on purpose- that they're not some noob that doesn't know the game- then I'm reporting that. If you're saying I'm 'wasting the time of people who have to deal with these reports', maybe reevaluate what your rules say is and isn't allowed.
You can call bull on whatever you want, doesn't change the fact that slugging isn't reportable or bannable (which is why it's not listed as a reasoning in the reporting guide by the way) and literally nothing will happen to the killer who did it.
Slugging builds and slugging as a tactic have been around since the game began, so this idea that it's a new phenomenon is just false on its face. The other thing that has to be said is if you as a killer were able to go around and slug four survivors who never got it in their head to pick the other downed survivors up when someone is being chased then frankly you're all potatoes and were never going to win anyway. Also Unbreakable called, it said it's a perk designed TO COUNTER SLUGGING. Maybe take advantage of a little extra indoor time and unlock old Bill and level him up.
And here's the tone deaf moment of the entire thread, if they proceed to "taunt and show they are doing it on purpose". So by that logic I can now report every survivor who has ever
- Tea bagged at the exit gates.
- Tea bagged after dropping a pallet.
- Tea bagged and pointed after vaulting a window and I missed a lunge.
"If you're saying I'm 'wasting the time of people who have to deal with these reports', maybe reevaluate what your rules say is and isn't allowed."
Who are you to decide the rules? Are you the developers? Did you create the game? If so then feel free to change the game how you wish. If not, how about you stop pretending like you have any power over anyone else, and learn to counter slugging instead of whining on the forums about it.
Oh and bonus point, definitely make sure not to get to high ranks, because then you'll run into killers like me who use slugging strategically ALL THE TIME as a pressure tactic, you'll spend a lot of time face first on the ground.
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You are aware BHVR has done double BP weekends randomly right? Stop pretending this is some kind of unreasonable suggestion or it's going to cost the developers money, it's not.
Oh and I'm not against a double BP charity event for HIV or Cancer by the by, or maybe a double Auric Cell deal where 50% of the proceeds go to a charity. World of Warcraft used to do this all the time by selling various pets for disaster relief.
Just cause you think double BP weekends aren't necessary doesn't make anyone else's suggestion less valid, and it's certainly doesn't make them "insensitive". It also isn't "too soon". This virus has been going for a while and by all accounts it's going to be here for months to come.
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@Coder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1162886#Comment_1162886
No. The idea is that "now that I have nothing else to do but stay home... well, BHVR, gimme double bloodpoints".
If you want to get informed, you'll stay informed.
If you want to turn off the TV and play videogames, do it, you don't need double BPs to do it.
Double BPs are not going to make you forget more about the issue, you just want free stuff for no real reason.
Seriously, you must be fun at parties.
It's a decent idea because for a lot of people they are going to be cooped up in their houses, and it would encourage people who may be interested in DBD to try it a little as they would earn BP significantly faster to get through the ridiculous grind this game presents at the outset while you are leveling killers to unlock perks.
BP's also don't grant you anything "Free". They aren't used for cosmetics, buying killers, or anything you buy with real money, so BHVR loses no money in doing it, all they do is encourage people to play more often, which drives up stream traffic and will likely lead to some additional cosmetic buys from newer players who get more interested in the game.
Seriously, get off your virtue signaling high horse and knock off the contrarian "too soon" nonsense.