Kwikwitted
Kwikwitted
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Make you a deal, give those killers who desperately needed Hex: Ruin to slow down the early game something to compensate and I'll bet they would trade in their NOED's in a heartbeat.
You don't find it at all coincidental that NOED use among all ranges of killers outside the red ranks started spiking right around the time the old Hex: Ruin was gutted?
Killers who swapped from Hex: Ruin to NOED are basically just shifting their power from early game to late game, that's all it is. Most killer players expected Ruin to be gone in the first 1-2 minutes, BUT, that was usually a minute or two where gens weren't being rushed. This gave the killer breathing room to get a hook or two and begin to pressure before the first generators popped.
Now it's not uncommon for a killer, regardless of how quick the first chase was, to see a generator pop at the first hook. Hell I had one game where I literally saw a Steve get into a locker, grabbed him, hooked him, and a generator STILL popped, couldn't have been more than 45 seconds from game start to hook.
NOED and Ruin are similar in that both necessitated you most likely play with 3 perks for a significant portion of the game, with Ruin it was after the early game when the totem was found, and for NOED it's 3 perks until late game when it activates, IF it activates. As The_Bootie_Gorgon stated, it's entirely on survivors if NOED actually activates or not, and even then, after the first person is downed the other three should be looking to de-activate the totem immediately before attempting a rescue, or just leave that person to die and get out with three escapes.
Bottom line, as the saying goes, do bones and NOED isn't a problem, it's free BP anyway. If it does happen to activate cause your teammates wer slacking and someone gets caught, go find and cleanse the totem, then attempt the rescue, as long as you don't open the doors and trigger EGC like an idiot you have plenty of time to do both these things and then conduct a rescue with someone with balanced time, not to mention the unlucky sod who got hooked probably has DS anyway, so they only need to get close to the gates and their home free (but that's a rant for another time).
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@Brodie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/137442/why-are-a-lot-of-killers-here-hypocrites
I've noticed a great amount of killers sayin they slug, camp and tunnel ever since ruin was nerfed (that was the excuse for all that) ruin could easily be found and cleansed within a few minutes 🤷🏻♂ i don't get salty if i die, can't win them all, but if i die unfairly by all of the above then that's a different story.
I played with ma friend the other day, he escaped through the hatch with a key and then the killer messaged him callin him a baby survivor for bringin a key, the toxicity is just gettin worse.. It's like oh wait as the last remainin surviour I will let u down and hook me 🤷🏻♂
I sometimes play killer, i tend to chase after the healthy survivor that went for the save bcs i find it unfair to ruin someone's gameplay tunnelin to oblivion. I've never played toxic as killer yet i would still get tbagged by the last suvivour at the exit gate like #########.. then they message Gg ez.. It's a horrible experience as killer or survivor
You're missing the point of why Ruin was helpful for a lot of killers.
Even if Ruin only lasted the first minute, that was a minute where survivors weren't on generators and were looking for totems. That was probably enough time for the killer to find and down at least one person and start building momentum. Hex: Ruin was rarely something killers expected to last the whole game, or even the first five minutes, it was strictly a perk for early game slowdown to start building momentum and then it was gone.
This is why Ruin has mainly been replaced by Corrupt Intervention, as they both have the same purpose, early game slowdown. Corrupt forces survivors closer to the killer, same way Ruin did when it forced survivors to go look for totems.
So yes, many killers have employed slugging tactics more often as while a survivor is down at least one other survivor needs to come pick them up, occupying 50% of the team on something other than generators.
The part I"m always confused about, is why survivors complain about slugging when unless the killer is running a dedicated slugger build (Knock Out, Third Seal, Deerstalker) it's really not that hard to pick up a downed survivor? Unbreakable counters slugging hard.
So frankly while I sympathize that slugging may not be fun to play against, if you lose to a slugger who isn't running a slugging build it's cause you intentionally chose not to get off the generator and pick up your people, and thus you played right into the killers strategy. Part of being good at survivor is knowing what the killer is trying to do and countering it, sometimes that may mean less gen rush and more picking up and healing.
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@FichteHiro said:
What do you think? What Killer do you have the most fun playing as?
I feel like playing Deathslinger is a lot of fun, as well as playing Oni.
So I have a killer I play for fun cause winning is fun, a killer I play because I like the design, and a killer I play because I enjoy being a contrarian.
Killer I play for fun cause winning is fun: Freddy.
Why: Freddy has the best map and generator pressure in the game right now, his snares are strong, and his ability to slow down generator progression with addons and perks gives him a tremendous early game advantage over other killers. He's considered top tier for a reason. I also enjoy how you're somewhat distorted when survivors are awake making getting first hits a little easier. He has tons of good addons, Red Paint Brush, Swing Chains, Pill Bottle, Paint Thinner (Fake Pallets), etc. Freddy's map pressure also makes him less reliant on location perks, though BBQ is amazing on him due to generator teleport.
Killer I play for fun cause I like the design: Hillbilly
Why: Hillbilly has great map pressure and his chainsaw while incredibly strong can be mind-gamed or juked if survivors are good. Back revving takes time to learn but it's so satisfying when you do it successfully. Billy has few weaknesses and is probably one of the best of the traditional "can be looped" killer. He benefits from many different perk builds and due to his mobility he's not as reliant on location perks.
Kill I play for fun cause I like being a contrarian: Legion
Why: Legion is considered one of the worst killers in the game, and I enjoy doing my best to make him viable. I actually think the way I play him is quite effective as a mass-injury type killer and then resorting to stealth with Monitor and Abuse or Nurse's calling to get cheap downs while survivors heal or try to hide. The best thing about winning with Legion is in the after-game chat survivors can't say anything, they just got bodied by a D-tier killer.
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SWF does try to match a killer with the average rank of the SWF team yes, so sometimes three red ranks will bring in a green rank and get a killer in the purples.
The part that I always find weird is now that I am in the red ranks pretty consistently, particularly around early rank 2, I start getting the whole rainbow in my matches, I'll get matched up against survivors in the greens and purples with a red or two, and it's just confusing cause I would have assumed once I was that high it would be nothing but red rank survivors.
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People are missing a couple key aspects of this.
1) Tru is a rank 1 caliber killer who is capable and quite effective on every killer he plays. He dedicates a lot of time to this so him getting a 4k is usually based on the fact that he is very well versed in the game (and the fact that he's also a red rank survivor helps him understand the game from both ends) and isn't necessarily indicative of what the average killer experience is.
2) Tru uses an Eboni Mori in this game, which is the only reason he gets the 4k, had he not had a Mori, they would have completed the last generator and Tru would have likely been looking at a 2k.
3) Even with getting the 4k with the Mori, Tru BARELY safety pipped, with a silver emblem in gatekeeper.
4) While discordance can help locate multiple survivors rushing the first gen, once the killer finds them, unless it's something like Legion that can injure multiple at once really only the survivor being chased needs to leave the gen, once other survivors realize they are not being chased they should immediately return to the gen.
So after that's out of the way, here's a take.
Generator speeds are a problem for killers more because of how stupidly designed gatekeeper is than anything else. If gens pop early, that is already looking at a silver gatekeeper emblem, which makes pipping almost impossible for higher rank killers. It's pretty disheartening when 1 minute into the game your goal turns into "just don't de-pip". This could be fixed by changing the gatekeeper emblem to be how long did it take the GATES to open, and not how many generators are left, particularly when there is times killers will sacrifice certain gens to setup a good 3-gen strategy.
Generator speeds are not a problem for high rank killers who are intimately aware of this concern and usually setup their perk builds and addons accordingly to counter it. I hate the fact that I have to play A LOT of Freddy when rank reset comes to climb back to the rank 2-1 but no other killer right now has his level of map and generator pressure so that's the world I'm in right now. A newer killer player is not going to know this and suffer a panic attack when two generators pop 2 minutes into the game. Particularly if that new killer player is on a lower tier killer like Legion, Clown, etc.
Bottom line generator speeds are in a weird place because most high rank killers have adapted either through use of perk builds, addon setups, or just acknowledging that you need to go into a game trying to setup a 3-gen, but newer players are going to have a much worse time as they haven't learned nearly enough efficient movement and map presence to counter getting on the backfoot so quickly. The sad truth is I don't know if there's a solution, slowing generators down would make it pretty easy for red rank killers to dominate, but currently killer has a pretty unforgiving learning curve due to current generator speeds.
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Strongest is a pretty bold claim, I think Freddy would like a word with you down the hall in his office.
I'd argue most of what you listed, outside of the new shock blast, were all parts of old doctor and he was pretty low to mid tier.
That said he's certainly better than he used to be, just the removal of the whole stance dance with treatment and punishment is a huge quality of life increase. His detection has always been off the charts and shock blast accentuates that, but overall he will still get looped, particularly by smart survivors who know to just drop pallets early.
Big things that hurt the doctor right now are more things that hurt most killers, while he has a large presence thanks to shock blast he doesn't have a lot of global pressure. Best killers right now either have a global teleport (Freddy), the ability to traverse the map super fast (Spirit, Hillbilly) and therefore can chain downs very quickly to pressure survivors into unhooking rather than rushing generators.
Overall he definitely put himself in the mid to high tier now, which is a great improvement, but strongest in the game right now is a little bit of a reach.
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@HellDescent said:
what were your emblems and rank?
He said it in the post, a gold, two silvers, and a bronze.
OP, earning 13,000 BP could have also been influenced by bloody party streamers. But yes, if overall your performance was an average of a silver (2 silvers, 1 bronze, 1 gold) you will not pip and depending on your rank you will possibly de-pip.
Look on the bright side, as a survivor you at least have control of your chance to pip, if as a killer I get two salty survivors who die on their first hooks rather than ragequitting I'm looking at a safety pip at best.
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Because of its pre-condition I couldn't in good conscience recommend the perk to anyone.
If as a killer you are routinely hitting bloodlust in chases, you are doing something wrong, particularly with current generator speeds. You have to learn to end chases quicker than that, either through better avenues of approach, better mind games, understanding tiles better, etc.
Beast of Prey was always a perk for people bad at chasing, but being bad at chasing is something a player can fix on their own, getting a perk for that is a waste of slot in my opinion. You only get 4 perk slots, you need them for things you can't compensate for strictly through play, right now I'd be surprised to see a killer not running at least two perks dedicated to generator issues (pop goes the weasel, ruin, thrilling tremors, surveillance, etc.) with one detection perk (BBQ and Chili, Nurse's Calling, etc.) and then one "flair" perk (something specific to your killer that helps, Monitor and Abuse on Myers for example).
Again, all my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.
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The first killer I ever "got" was Hillbilly, not the biggest AHA! moment to be sure, but once I realized how strong map pressure is the light bulb clicked pretty quickly.
The second killer I ever "got" was Legion, I started playing him after he got nerfed from his toxic first iteration so I've always played him with the penalty for missing during frenzy along with his other issues, but I just seem to understand how to get the most out of frenzy to slow the game down to compensate for his laughable ability to actually down survivors due to being M1 reliant. He's definitely the one I got that I enjoy the most as people often underestimate him.
The third killer I ever "got" was new Freddy, which really isn't hard to understand, once you understand how to use his teleports to pressure the map and bait survivors into leaving gens the rest comes pretty quickly.
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For the record, the killer can't really let you go at that point, as they've only gotten a couple hook actions and a low chaser score at that point. Gatekeeper will probably guarantee the safety pip, but sometimes you can't be sure.
Killers can't stand hook suicides either, in many cases someone taking their ball and going home like a baby screws us out of 1-2 hook actions, and may be the difference between Brutal and Ruthless, or Ruthless and Merciless.
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Yes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1153552#Comment_1153552
You just must be terribly unlucky. My meaning being that you must be being faced against one of the very very few Clown mains that actually know what they’re doing, and how to use Clown to proper devastating effect. There aren’t many of us. I’m guessing you have the privilege (and frustration) of finally meeting one of us.
Most think Clown is weak. Mostly by those that can’t use him properly, or survivors that go against a Clown player that don’t know how to use him properly. I guess you have learned the hard way that he isn’t weak at all. Not even close to being weak.
I have a lot of respect for mains of off-brand or what the community would consider "mid-tier" or worse killers. Anybody actually playing Clown optimally deserves a medal for actually making that walking gut worthwhile. I feel the same way about my legion, can't help but get defensive when someone claims they are low-tier killers when they carried me from Rank 5 to Rank 1.
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So a key still lets half the team escape early but I'm supposed to give up Eboni Mori's entirely and the rest are reduced to glorified fancy death hook animations?
HOW ABOUT NO SCOTT.
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I could give up Mori's if survivors give up keys in a heartbeat, not gonna lie.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1153252#Comment_1153252
it should be 40 seconds
That would probably fix it, but again I think 60 seconds is fine as long as there are conditions for nullifying it such as hooking someone else.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
There is no immunity. Stop telling these lie every Day.
Alright, since you wanna be intentionally dense it's immunity from getting picked up for a hooking. The worst that can happen to you is getting slugged. If you get in a locker I can't do anything to you as the only way to remove you at that point is a grab. Therefore, you have total immunity in a locker, and immunity from all but slugging outside a locker.
There, clear enough for you? It's a not a lie, it's you deliberately pretending to be stupid.
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I do legitimately feel for casual players in this game, cause I feel like you guys are always in the next game right after I had to deal with some sweaty toxic optimal 4 man SWF team and you guys just catch me at the wrong moment and just get mollywhopped, then I see the rankings in the post-game and I make the same face Scarlet Witch did in Civil War when she blew up that office building.
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@manzari said:
That's it, people should not have the right to complain about stuff unless they have at least 1k hours in the game.
People should have at least a basic understanding of game mechanics before complaining on the forums about the consensus worst killer in the game. The idea that clown is somehow overpowered is laughable and may actually be one of the few things both killers and survivors can agree upon.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1153517#Comment_1153517
You dont have to walk to them multiple times. You just have to choose hook you going to hook survivor on.
Yes but the point is hooks are spread far enough apart that once I commit to walking to a hook survivors were been able to sabo before I reached it provided it's a decent distance away and at that point I don't have enough time to walk to another one. Again, I haven't had anyone try it on live yet to see if it's still as nutty as it was on PTB, I could be fearing nothing here.
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@Reborn2020 said:
Sabo changes are nothing to be honest. Its viable only if you use toolbox with speed addons and clearly you can counter it by hooking survivor somewhere else as there are plenty of hooks or you can drop that survivor and hook him 30 seconds later(keep in mind that dropping survivor is also not punishable as before) . And for that to work one survivor have to be on your tail consistently which will temporarily remove one survivor from a game and imagine if survivor gets downed close to hook ? Su much time just wasted for nothing. They also have to equip saboteur perk to see hook auras.
Haven't seen it yet on live to confirm. But bringing a hook offering along with the Sabo pretty much makes it so as a killer you had to commit to a hook immediately upon pickup on the PTB. So the idea that sabo changes are nothing is downplaying it's power by a lot. "Plenty of hooks" is a misnomer, even at base level killers do not have enough time to walk to multiple hooks unless you happen to down right next to one but want to walk to a basement hook for example.
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As OmegaXII said, survivor queues are faster as the only thing for their side to try is the new map.
I don't know what rank you are, but the Deathslinger is only challenging right now cause not everyone plays the PTB and don't know how to deal with him. He's a lower-class huntress with a fun gimmick but his effectiveness is limited, he is ungodly slow, and his perk synergy outside of STBFL is non-existent.
I would say enjoy it while you can because once people understand how to loop him, that 110% base movespeed is gonna feel like a boulder around his neck.
Hard pass personally, but to each their own. Not gonna judge anyone on their killer choices when I used Legion in red ranks.
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I've played it so far with Legion, Freddy, and the Deathslinger of course.
Freddy was dominant, as you would expect just cause he's dominant right now in general. With Legion my only gripe was some of the multi-levels screwing with his killer instinct but that's just par for the course nowadays. Deathslinger had trouble but that's also owing to him just not being amazing right now.
Another observations was some of the totem spawns are nowhere near generators making finding them a real challenge. I've had totems last the whole game cause they weren't near any generators. The breakable walls feel more like a gimmick, they don't feel necessary for any of the loops.
For survivors it's a Haddonfield style map, in other words balanced landing will make you a god on this map, you can jump from the Hangmans scaffold, the balcony in the middle, and many of the buildings have stairs and that lead to balconies with vaults that will all trigger it. Hangman's scaffold and central balcony also have gens you can work on in almost complete safety.
Overall not amazing for either side, mostly will come down to whether the survivors can utilize the few strong loops or whether the killer can protect central generators.
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DS should immediately de-activate if the killer hooks another survivor.
The fact that DS is a full minute of immunity is ridiculous when it's meant to be an "anti-tunneling" perk.
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So you're proposing changes to a mechanic that you don't even fully understand and you're not even clear on what the term "slugging" even meant?
Slugging is leaving survivors on the ground and not hooking them, PERIOD. It encompasses all instances of this happening.
Please stop making suggestions for changes until you play the game long enough to actually understand terminology.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1153135#Comment_1153135
And you are aware, that slugging often really starts with 2 people already downed and at least 1 more person injured? You cant really call it slugging when you down 2 people at the same time with 2 fully healthy survivors unless you have all survivors exposed(in which case, you earned the slug). If you read on, you would have seen me acknowledge that.
Next to that, this mechanic would be practically useless if someone else was there to pick you up, as, like I said, the downsides of being able to pull it off would NOT be a free unbreakable. It's not a 5th perk by any means, its meant to be the slightest chance for a survivor to pick themselves up when a killer leaves them alone on the ground when otherwise having no reason to, other than wanting a 4k. It's easy as a killer to say that slugging sometimes is neccesary, which I acknowledge, while also ignoring that in quite a lot of games, its very easy to slug 2 people with a 3rd one being close enough to not leave the slugged people and possibly having slugged all 3, and instead of hooking those 3 people actually going to look for the 4th person. THAT is where I suggest this "mechanic" being possible and actually worth taking the risk for.
As for the OoO discussion, yes, its annoying, I agree, but there are addons and a perk that would effectively counter that. Yet people demand more. You cannot counter teamspeak. You simply cant. Even without OoO, a full team of SWF can fairly easily communicate where the killer is, what he is up to etc. OoO might give a more accurate description, but even then, a survivor across the map cannot see exactly what the surroundings are. Its a bit more effective to say the killer is moving left or right, but in those cases you have all the reasons to tunnel the person with OoO. Personally, the only real change to OoO that I would give, is remove the ability to see the killer when not the obsession, making Nemesis a pretty strong counter to it. Not even talking about addons or perks that give blindness to the survivor. My whole point about that, was that killers found it ridiculous to require addons or perks to counter 1 perk. Just like I find it ridiculous 1 perk is required to counter a basic game mechanic. Perks should make it a lot easier to counter or they should be able to counter other perks. Which is why I want to add a TON of risks to being able to pick yourself up, like the tiny skill check, the regression and notification if failed(which lets the killer know that they have 20 more seconds before they could try it again), the potential broken status that would be applied if done alone etc. Just to add a teeny tiny chance that survivors can pick themselves up if left alone too long. Because ######### teammates exist.
Um, where did you get this notion that slugging only starts with 2 people down and one injured? There are situations where a killer may slug with only one person down and three people healthy, it's all dependent on generators left up, location of other survivors, and game circumstances. You don't acknowledge this at all in your post, you seem to think slugging only happens in very specific circumstances which is why myself and other posters are trying to educate you and explain that slugging is a tactic used in a variety of situations, which again, you would understand if you played killer at a high level or at least watched some people who played at a high level.
And again, you don't understand the mechanic at all, you just think the killer is slugging with no rhyme or reason. Don't get me wrong, slug builds exist, but you'll know very quickly when it happens as the killer will be running specific perks for the situation (third seal, knockout, deerstalker). And yes, what you are proposing is a free unbreakable, even worse because in your post you make no mention whether this would be one-time use or not.
You seem fixated on actual slug builds, which again have their own inherent risks. Slug builds rely on actually catching all four survivors before slugs can be picked up by other survivors, it requires all unbreakables to be exhausted, it completely gets destroyed by stealth builds as it includes no detection perks, and it often still deals with gen rush, even worse because they don't usually hook and now they have nothing to show for the slugging when everyone pops up with adrenaline on the last generator popping.
But clearly you're too convinced your idea is the smartest thing ever so I'm not going to keep explaining slugging to you.
And as for your ridiculous defense of OOO, again you miss the mark completely. You clearly don't understand nemesis, the only time the obsession changes is when you are pallet stunned, the obsession will just instead gravitate to jungle gyms and window loops if chased, and stick to call outs if not chased. This is not a fix to the situation.
Again, a "tiny" skill check is not a risk to getting picked up, because if you fail so what? You just try again, and to pretend survivors have trouble hitting skill checks is just laughable if you're above rank 10.
Sorry man, you clearly are relatively new to the game and a survivor main, you dealt with a guy slugging for a 4k so now you think we need to "fix" this problem, we don't, certainly not with a free unbreakable for every survivor as a fifth perk.
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I bought him with some auric cells I had leftover so it wasn't a big investment.
Positives: He can finish a loop faster than most provided your aim is on, lower terror radius makes sneaking up for a first melee hit followed by a shoot and pull not too tough to do.
Negatives: He feels like he dipped his boots in concrete before starting the match. 110% move speed but my god he almost feels slower than huntress. Survivors are already decent at avoiding shots after years of dodging hatchets.
Overall the assessment that he's a worse huntress seems to be holding accurate. I like his aesthetic, and the gun idea is intriguing, but his move speed just really turns me off.
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It's hard for me to judge the issue because in red rank games I play in it's just assumed every survivor is carrying DS, so actually "tunneling" is usually ineffective. At best I'll slug someone coming off the hook just to slow the game down a little bit more, but picking them up? Hard pass.
The other issue is what survivors consider "tunneling". If I hooked you, then hooked someone else, then found and downed and hooked you again, that's NOT tunneling, even if it was in quick succession, I didn't hook anyone consecutively, by definition it's not tunneling. We can't even get survivors to understand what tunneling actually is, so trying to "fix" something players can't even really agree to identify is kind of a tall order.
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Pinhead from Hellraiser would be my obvious choice.
Jason got his own game so likely he won't be available until that thing dies a horrible death. Pennywise would be crowding with the actual clown killer we already got. It's already kind of weird we have two chainsaw wielders in the mix thanks to licensing.
If they wanted to get very true to the lore they should go with Clive Barker's original pinhead from the novel which is female.
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So first off, you are aware that when slugged another survivor can pick you up right? That's the risk killers take when slugging. When you say something like this:
"Slugging, however, fails to fit any of these catagories. The only risk is the possibility for someone having a certain perk and them crawling away, but any human with ears should be able to easily locate them again as Iron Will doesnt have an effect on the dying state(and Stridor, even though it should be like Iron Will, DOES apply to the dying state), but its another perk that would otherwise be required to make slugging risky"
it pretty much destroys your argument as it looks like you don't understand how the game works.
Second, you seem to have very little clue why killers slug, it's not a "massive reward" as no killer camps a slug, we slug to find someone else to down to usually hook at that point. Killers don't slug because they're trying to be jerks, at least most of the time, it's designed to slow down generator progression as it requires another survivor to get off a generator to come pick you up, now I've occupied 50% of the survivor team doing something other than generators, which gives me some breathing room if generators are going to fast.
Giving survivors essentially a fifth perk as a free unbreakable means killers lose once again, one of the few things they have to slow down generators. Without slugging in any appreciable aspect (as no killer is going to camp you as a slug, so by definition you would be leaving the terror radius and could do a free pick up each time) what you would see is even more killer attrition than you see already.
The OOO discussion is not even remotely close to this. The problem with OOO is not the perk in and of itself, it's that the perk can be combined with SWF and outside communication (not supported in game) to provide information to an entire team as if they all ran OOO, but just one player is.
Bottom line, I'd recommend playing killer or watch some high rank killer streams and you will see more clearly why slugging is a critical part of all killers arsenals, particularly with how generator speeds are currently.
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1147316#Comment_1147316
Legion isnt nearly the worst killer. Legion is sitting at mid tier right now imo.
A lot on these forums would disagree with you. I'm not one of them, I don't think he's the worst in the slightest, clown for sure is worse than him right now at the very least, and Bubba has to be below him too.
The point still stands, when I beat a group with a mid-tier at best killer I don't tend to get too much spicy after game chats, because you can't really knock a guy who beat you with a sub-par killer.
@Dreamnomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1147376#Comment_1147376
Statistically speaking Nurse is the worst killer in the game. Both in pick rate and kills.
Think this has a lot to do with her learning curve though. In other words, people try her once or twice, get no kills, get bullied all game, and then never play her again, so her kill rate looks atrocious.
She's definitely not fun to play right now, unless you like stun simulator 2000.
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You will only see this perk on baby huntresses and doctor builds trying to make impossible skillchecks.
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Still don't understand why we can't have two modes, unranked and ranked.
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@Deathslinger said:
Far as I’ve heard, he won’t be buffed. That being said, someone did suggest he be able to drag downed survivors which I think is a hilarious idea.
Also low key hope he stays weak so I feel special making him my main. If I said I main Freddy or Spirit then people would just roll their eyes. I don’t want that reaction for Deathslinger.
This is how I feel about Legion. When I play Freddy or Billy I get nothing but hate in after game chats about "broken killer" or "ez killer" and such, but if you 4k with legion? They know they can't say anything, they just got beat with the bottom of the barrel, what is your comeback to that?
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Of those three, clown is the easy call.
People may not like it, but bubba with the right perks can be very effective. He's gotten a lot better thanks to Oni's nemesis perk combined with PWYF letting him keep getting speed boosts and since his chainsaw only takes one ticket he can vroom vroom a lot better now. Combine Nemesis, PWYF, and Monitor and Abuse and Bubba can literally almost jumpscare people with stupid crazy speed and an insta-down that's easier to control than Billy's.
Wraith is another killer that with the right perk builds can be quite strong, his ability to stealth and increase movement speed also let him get some better map pressure than the other two in this group.
Clown just has no redeeming qualities right now, standard movement, no speed boosts, no global map presence, no ability to insta-down standard without addons, nothing. His power is very lackluster (I mean at least legion can injure multiple people) and without a lot of perk help a large map is an auto-loss, hell even WITH good perks a large map is still an auto-loss.
As a heavy Legion player I actually think his mechanics aren't that bad, but I'm also a masochist sometimes.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1147092#Comment_1147092
You probably bring a mori and a slugging build everygame dont you?
The funny thing is most killers don't, while slugging is a tactic most killers employ during a game at different times, actually going with a slug build is a pretty heavy investment. Just bringing Knock Out and Deerstalker is taking up 50% of a perk loadout. And a Mori is announced at the beginning of a game.
Meanwhile DS, DH, UB & BT are all meta perks that have no downsides and are hardly situational, unlike a slugging build. And if we're trying to compare keys to mori's, last time I checked I can't find a Mori midway through a game to randomly kill a survivor at whim, but you can bet a key found during a level can create another escape route for an entire team of survivors.
The comparison doesn't add up.
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@toxcitynacl said:
Which means you played an easy 2v1 game...not exactly a difficult task. Congrats on your impressive victory. The other two should have just dc'ed as well. Why should I continue to play in a game like that? I am going to lose a PIP anyway why should I do the killer any favors by letting him get points for hooking and killing me. Sorry...I'm gone too in that situation.
Not always the case, played a game last night on coldwind, Jane dc'ed after the first chase before I could even hook. Claudette just afk's and dies on second hook. All that remained was a Nancy and Dwight, so I hit them both with frenzy about three times and stood there while they healed, then I hooked each twice and had the other unhook, then we went around and they did five generators, then I murdered them. We all pipped in the end.
Just saying some killers will work with survivors in that kind of situation, provided they aren't douches of course.
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The developers aren't going to do anything because I've seen survivors accuse me of camping when I was chasing another survivor on the other side of the map. So frankly survivors words are hardly their bond on this accusation.
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@nerdguy5 said:
If you have to rely on MORIS because you don’t wanna be come a better play you probably SHOULD stop playing! You are probably the same person who is mad they are nerfing moris but is the same person to quit when you see a player with a key. Goodbye
Hey let's try this in reverse.
If you have to rely on KEYS because you don't wanna be come a better play you probably SHOULD stop playing! You are probably the same person who is mad they are nerfing keys but is the same person to quit when you see a player with a Mori. Goodbye
Hmm, seems to work in exactly both directions doesn't it?
For the record, I would give up all Mori's in a heartbeat to remove keys from the occasion, hatch should be something only available when three out of four survivors are dead just to ensure the game isn't held hostage by a blendette that refuses to move.
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@[Deleted User] said:
My team and I got destroyed by a rank 1 Legion last night.
As a rank 1 legion main and I assume one of the few people dumb enough to play him at high ranks I have to assume this was my doing, I apologize. If it was a legion using the dark hoodie backpack ensemble it was definitely me.
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So you're conflating three completely different points in your post OP. Slugging, Camping, and the Emblem System.
So now I'll try to explain why your assertions are wrong and how both of these are inter-connected.
Slugging - Slugging is a tactical move for killers to employ to slow down progression as a downed survivor cannot do much of anything, either burn an unbreakable or wait for a pick up from another player, if they have to be picked up, that's two survivors not doing generators. But slugging is still inherently risky because if a killer slugs someone and then chases another person and that slugged survivor is picked up the killer may end up with nothing in the end. Slugging has counterplay, perks to counter it (unbreakable, no mither) and is a tactical decision. Is it fun for survivors? Probably not, but I don't see how holding M1 is fun either.
Camping - The problem with camping is what survivors think camping is and what killers think camping is are two entirely different things. To help I'll separate it into two categories, face camping and proxy camping.
Face camping - This is the type of camping that bubbas are known for, literally standing in front of the hooked survivor waiting for them to die, it's ineffective, not fun for either side, and is a poor tactical move as the killer allows three other people to do the remaining generators and escape, not advised.
Proxy camping - If I can hook a survivor within a perimeter of 3-4 generators, I will build that hook into the patrolling path, I will be close enough to react to the unhook (usually to chase the unhooker as the unhooked may have borrowed time or DS) as I patrol generators, this type of "camping" is very effective at letting the killer use the leverage of the hooked survivor to drag other survivors off objectives for unhooks which leads to more chases and hopefully more hooks, it's a critical part of every killers tactical toolbox.
Now how does all this fit into the emblem system? I'm glad you asked, it mainly pertains to two emblems, gatekeeper and devout.
Gatekeeper as an emblem is very badly designed, the way the game is currently going, 1-2 generators pop very quickly which leaves killers with a rough gatekeeper score as it's based on giving points for how many generators remain after each minute and then a final tally for generators remaining at the end of the match, this is why killers may resort to slugging to slow down generators to enhance their gatekeeper score.
Devout is based on hook actions, for iridescent we need nine of them. While you are correct that facecamping will tank your devout score, as the survivor you facecamped only gave you one hook action, proxy camping however, is beneficial to the devout score as you continue to chase down different survivors who come to unhook.
So in conclusion, your assertions are incorrect, slugging and some flavors of camping actually will benefit our emblem scores as they allow us to preserve generator life and get more hook actions.
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@Nickeleye said:
The killers job is to entertain and make sure survivors have the opportunity to pip.
As a red rank killer that's what the emblem system has taught me anyway.
Best comment ever.
Ironically I did something just like this today.
Had a disconnect and an AFK so after hooking the remaining players twice each I let them farm with healing and did 4 generators before I killed them off, they both got to pip and so did I.
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@ProfoundEnding said:
Always happy if I see an Adam, Laurie or Quentin simply because they're not played enough. As a Jane main it's nice to see other Janes too as I don't see them as much as the other females.
I have to genuinely question this, you don't see a lot of Jane in your games?
My goodness I end up chasing that big booty so often her jiggle is burned into my retinas at this point. It's always the same two skins, either business suit Jane or big booty Jeans Jane without a doubt.
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@cornbreadeater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144744#Comment_1144744
What about Fengs, I don’t play killer enough to know but people rarely mention if they hate her or love her lmao
She's just kinda......there?
Feng Mins can run the gamut but from what I've seen of the community she was the "waifu" type until Yui seemed to seize that role. Feng Mins could be toxic, but not always. I don't know why but they always seem to be the ones who can't dodge a chainsaw to save their life when I play Billy, but it might just be me remembering their very distinctive yell when they go down.
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@ALostPuppy said:
Kill all blendettes on sight. Fashionable Claudettes are cool though.
Ace players have a massive dick and are usually the best players. Same goes for Neas.
I don't see nearly enough Lauries.
Megs and Nancies are adorable.
Dwights are interesting. They're either complete babies or godlike and there's no in-between.
Much of this is very accurate.
There stereotypes I tend to see the most often.
Meg - Meg players seem to come in two flavors. If it's a meg without a mask, it's a gen jockey with sprint burst without a doubt. Usually the meg's without masks are pretty terrible loopers either being newer players or players with over-inflated rankings due to being gen jockeys and pipping while not having to learn how to be chased. If it's a meg with a flashlight she always has a mask and does the (click) thing at you constantly and wonders why you won't chase her while you're in the process of downing all her teammates. Usually a mask meg should not be chased under any circumstance.
Claudette - Basically the Meg without a mask with the added perk of being a ######### ninja and becoming invisible on certain maps. Usually are terrible loopers as well. Fashionable claudettes are a notable exception as they expect to be seen and chased and will often be the best jungle gym rats you've ever seen.
Nea - Nea falls into that Meg with a mask category. Always has balanced landing, even if they didn't try to burn a haddonfield offering, has a flashlight, and can loop very well.
Yui - Easily the most likely to wait at a pallet, drop in front of you, fail to stun you, and t-bag like they made an amazing play.
Jake/Dwight - Jake and Dwight both fall into the either baby or god-like category. I avoid Jake and Dwight players in legacy skins like the plague, they will run you endlessly. Also if a Jake has a toolbox it's 50/50 he's gonna go with a lol sabo build.
David - While others run this perk, anytime I'm chasing a David I'm waiting for a Dead Hard, until I am fully certain he doesn't have it.
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@Quake said:
I dont know your skill level,I guess u are a very decent killer with several thousand hours into the game but legion can be countered hard by survivors simply not stacking and not healing.
By not stacking I mean the moment legion FF you run the hell as far away as possible from teammates,and not wasting time heading.
Treat legion as a m1 killer all game and get out of.
Of course doesn't always work and there are exceptional killers out there.
My 2c.
This is the best way to counter Legion yes, but really this counters just about every killer in the game right now, so he's not really unique in that regard. About the only killers not really countered by spreading out is Billy, Nurse, of course Freddy, and maybe Oni.
If I hit the first target with frenzy and see no one close, I will follow until their speed boost from getting hit wears off, then try to cancel frenzy in a spot where I will have time to catch up before a pallet or window if possible, while you lose most sight when canceling frenzy it's not completely black, also if you are close you can track the survivor by wounded sounds, similar to how nurse players track while recovering from blinks. At that point it does devolve into a chase against an M1 killer and the Legion will have to be very good to determine if he should continue chasing his target or go to attempt to injure someone else.
In a way he almost adopts a wraith like playstyle of hit and run tactics with frenzy and then comes back around (at least how I play him) with Monitor and Abuse and tries to finish the job by sneaking up on top of a survivor and downing them before a chase can commence.
Will this work every time? Of course not, are some legion players bad? Absolutely, is he a top tier killer? Not even close. I don't recommend playing Legion to anyone, but I know I can win with him and that's enough for me personally. Should everyone try him? Again, I'm not sure, I think everyone should try every killer at least once and see which one has a style that works for them. At this point I've played enough of Legion to know his weaknesses and try to accentuate his strengths, same with every killer.
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@PBsamichShoe said:
I've never played as him, only against him. He sucks to play against. Basically the second legion spots you it's pretty much over. You can try and run as long as you want but he's basically designed to tunnel hard. I've managed to escape the exit gates against him maybe once in the 6 or so matches I've played against him. I think it was because it was a baby legion and all he kept doing was using the mangle attack on all of us, but maybe he was just taking it easy on everyone.
If a game is not going well, it's sometimes worth it as a Legion to focus on just landing as many hits as you can for points and to get Iridescent Chaser and Malicious Emblems, this will compensate for a really bad gatekeeper or devout score and allows Legion to safety pip a little easier than most killer.
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Coming from a killer main's perspective, these are the ones I see the most often from the other side.
Sprint Burst:
Annoyance Factor: 5
Justification: The favorite of every Claudette and Meg with a toolbox, Sprint Burst's biggest downside is it forces the player to walk in order to recharge it. As a killer it can be countered by picking an approach that doesn't allow for a straight line sprint.
Dead Hard:
Annoyance Factor: 10
Justification: Not only does this perk provide a burst of distance but it's invulnerability is absolutely maddening. You can do it over trapper's traps to avoid getting caught for example. Only downside is you can't do another action while it's going so be careful about trying to do it in front of a window or pallet as you may not be able to input the next command in time for the killer to hit you anyway.
Balanced Landing:
Annoyance Factor: 7
Justificaton: Probably the most map dependent of all exhaustion perks. Balanced Landing is downright terrifying on the right map. Balanced Landing on Haddonfield is the exhaustion perk equivalent of hitting the killer right in the balls with a baseball bat. However on a lot of other maps it might not even get used, best paired with a map offering.
Lithe:
Annoyance Factor: 4
Justification: So the thing about lithe is to use it you have to vault which means it's only useful at jungle gyms, killer shack, and t-walls and l-walls, in most of these circumstances the killer will see if you sprint away and may just give up the chase right then, also a lot of time running t-walls jungle gyms is more about careful movement than flat out sprinting.
Obviously there are other exhaustion perks but these are the ones I see most often.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
When I see a nurse “ok i probably have to actually try”
When I see legion “lol”
red ranks btw
I mean, this is just a bad killer player, regardless of it's legion or not though.
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Survivor: Equips overpowered item enabling early escape with only counterplay being tunneling.
Killer: Tunnels key holder.
Survivor: (Surprised Pikachu Face)
I feel like as a killer, as fun as Mori's are, I'd give them up in a heartbeat to stop having to worry about keys.
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@bernardo6526 said:
@ChainsawCharlie what you mean with demogorgon sucks? You think he is weak or too strong?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143872#Comment_1143872
6% actually + Thanatophobia (16% max) + Dying Light + Pop Goes the Weasel.
But what bothers me is that Freddy have this free 6% because the survivors enter dream state passively. So you can make the number stronger but make freddy work for it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143895#Comment_1143895
Yes I am aware. I was saying to keep this condition AND add the condition of minimum hooks. If the survivor finds the key and find the hatch before you is his win bro lol. He did enough gens so the hatch can spawn and found it. This process takes a lot longer than hooking one person. So mori's are definetly stronger than keys (And you are hearing a killer main here). As a killer , you should look for the hatch too if you find that no one is doing gens and manage to find the survivor looking for it. The only thing that bothers me now is when I do this and get to hatch but the survivor gets priority because there is no counterplay to the key usage. But if you add this animation thing, and play right you can stop the key use.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143874#Comment_1143874
She doesnt need any buff, people need to learn how to play with her. And when they do, this game will be literally hell.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143907#Comment_1143907
Bad plagues struggles at the rank 1. Watch Otzdarva and Monto playing against rank 1 teams, they stomp easily. Plague is a m1 killer except that if she gets everyone sicks she is basically a infinite tier 3 myers and now that she has the free pool of corruption, she is a irisdecent hatchet machinegun huntress with 115% mov speed. Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhs_5tM6l6A and tell me I'm wrong lol
Your key logic is so backwards I don't even know how to respond to it.
The issue is not now, nor has it ever been hatch standoffs or looking for the hatch when you're down to 1v1, which is all your little animation would solve. The issue with keys is even if survivors don't start with them (if they do at least you know it going in) and they find one during the match in a chest, you're somehow supposed to psychically know that? Am I supposed to be dropping chases to check survivors hands constantly? Did you forget we're a little occupied with generators?
You wanna fix keys? Simple, they don't spawn in chests under any circumstances, if you wanna cheese for a quick hatch, you let the killer know up front so they can bring a Mori to counter, THAT is balanced counterplay. If a killer has to announce to the survivors that they have a Mori, survivors should have to announce to the killer they have a key, and there should not be "surprise keys" just cause they got lucky and found one after screwing themselves with a 3-gen.
I find it VERY hard to believe you are a killer main if you somehow believe that Mori's are more powerful than keys. Particularly because as a killer using a Mori, particularly an eboni Mori, all but eliminates any chance of pipping, and again, I have to announce it at the start of the game. A key can be found mid-game, and cause the escape of not just the key finder but their entire team.