Kwikwitted
Kwikwitted
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@Cheeki_Beaky_Bird said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/868/GQKM19250I45.png
This a better brag for you?
Used BBQ and Chili on Hag, too OP, not good enough brag.
/s
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@notyarbllewe said:
Whenever I was a powerful killer today the rank ~4s killed themselves or let me kill them. One rank 4 literally said they almost dc at the beginning because I was a Huntress with a insta-kill hatchet. Someone killed themselves when I was Spirit. People even let me knock them down freely when I was Legion. Is there a possible way to actually make survivors HAPPIER in a round?
To be perfectly fair (and this is coming from a killer main) if you're using a pretty strong addon like Iridescent Head, Fragrant tuft of Hair on Myers, Omega Blink Nurse when she was a thing, etc. It's not that surprising survivors will just say "nope". As fun as these addons are (and I've used them myself, especially permanent T3 Myers) they kind of skew the balance the other way, where killers have random games of crazy power spikes while regular games killers feel like they're running around with a handicap. It actually works against a lot of the balance complaints killers make on a routine basis.
The other problem is this just encourages survivors to suicide of DC. DC is a de-pip with a time penalty but letting you hook them and suiciding is cost-free minus one pip that they can easily get back next game.
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@Rexis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142118#Comment_1142118
Again " I won " a word I hear quite often, there is no winning or losing in here my friend
You make points from hitting, chasing, hoking, sacrificing and using your killer ability
I make point by unhooking, fixing gens, chase, cleansing totems, taking protection hits and healing others
Everyone makes points, you dont win by killing all 4 and I dont lose by dying
you could still die and pip +1 and you could have no kills and pip also
There is no winners or losers :)
Yeah pretty easy to say that when you pip even though you died, but it's ok cause you held M1 long enough.
Survivor emblems reward participation, which is why they think killer emblems reward the same, they don't.
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Better yet can we just remove the hatch? If you're team couldn't finish the five gens guess what, no cheap escapes for you, up on the hook you go.
The fact that as killer my choices with two survivors left is slug or accept a likely 3k is beyond idiotic.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1141119#Comment_1141119
I would respectfully disagree. The killer can do more to ruin the experience than anyone. I started as a survivor main. Played about a year and had many a nights ruined as the victim of constant tunneling or hatdcore camping. I'm talking being zeroed in on from the start to where I could not do anything in a game but sit on a hook. Many of those killers expressed their intent to avoid any care of BP or pips and only wanted to ruin the experience for as many "whiney survivors" as possible.
So between that and the sad BP differences, I switched to killer and have zero regret for the past 2 years. I can't remember the last time a group of survivors ruined my enjoyment through attempts to be toxic. Maybe when I first started and I would sweat over performing well. After a couple of months I realized I could still get lots of BP vs super toxic SWF.
As killer vs 4 man hit squad toxic SWF I can get well over 20k BP and rarely no kills. As a survivor with a hard core basement insidious Bubba I could get less than 1k and feed a troll pos his enjoyment by watching me die on one hook. I have to hope the team of solos have BT and can coordinate well enough or I'm done.
Nope, I'll take the killer role and lots of BP for 500 Alex.....
Again, if a camping Bubba is going to not leave the hook, you can just ######### on hook, ends the game for you, screws the killer even more than camping is going to, and you're off to the next game. Worst thing that happened to you is losing an item and if the bubba was planning to camp you as you say you were losing that anyway. Even in this way you keep your BP as opposed to a DC.
Your logic gets even less coherent when you claim you switched to killer main and suddenly stopped caring about doing well, so they can't ruin the game for you. Well by that logic why did you care so much about playing survivor to the point that a camping Bubba was so toxic to you? See the double standard here? If you are a killer main trying to do well a toxic SWF 4-man is going to be a nightmare, if you are a survivor trying to do well a camper is probably going to be a nightmare. The difference is a survivor can get into the next game the minute they die, survivors are stuck with a toxic SWF 4-man until those survivors decide they want to leave.
Bottom line at the end of the day survivors can just yeet out of a game they don't want to be in anymore, while a killer is literally at the mercy of survivors to finish the gens until they can leave the game outside of a DC.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/135156/survivors-ducking-lobbies
I don't think we should see the killer. Having four survivors load up Calm Spirit every time I load Doc would end all Doc use.
I do think we should be able to see the name of the player though. If it is someone you know is really toxic, you can avoid that person. It would lend to having to pay for your rep. Example: There are roughly 5 I know I'd dodge. These people outright admit the only reason they play the game is to try to upset other players and ruin their enjoyment of the game. They don't care about BP or pips, just being as toxic as they can be.
I'd rather avoid those players.
While I agree in theory, if you play against certain players a lot and know what killers they favor, you could still alter loadouts to counter their go-to killers which still gives an advantage to survivors that they don't really need.
I gotta be honest, I fail to see how a killer can ruin the game that much for a survivor. Even if they facecamp, you ######### on hook, they are penalized because now they can't get 2 other hook actions from you, leading to a likely entity displeased or at best brutal killer, and you're in another game long before their game ends. Even killers being toxic backfires on them.
Survivors on the other hand can make a killer's life miserable for a lot longer by just refusing to do gens and continually bullying the killer with flashlights, body blocking, sabotaging hooks, etc. until a killer either remembers they can open the exit gates or they disconnect for a penalty.
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It wasn't necessarily the nerf to ruin, it's that the devs gave killers a big f-you with a side of f-yourself in compensation.
In other words, if they had nerfed ruin but constricted the maps, that would have been acceptable, at least then this mythic "generator pressure" would be attainable by more than the nurse and hillbilly. Besides all they did was swap one "crutch perk" in old Ruin for another "crutch perk" in corrupt intervention.
This is why you see NOED being used so much more often, a lot of killers were used to running three perks anyway since Ruin would usually only last a minute (and even at that point, it had done its job) so now killers just expect survivors to gen rush and ignore totems since Ruin seemed to be the only thing that would compel survivors to look for totems outside of maybe farming BP's. So now survivors rush gens, killers adapt with endgame builds, and we end up with the forums chock full of people crying about NOED.
It's even more hilarious when you consider that survivors are still rocking no less than 4 second chance perks. Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, and Adrenaline
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You thought the killers had the power in this game, you have chosen poorly.
The survivors are the ones to fear.
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There's a lot of streamers who main killer who play a lot of builds and have recommendation. Not Otsdarva has a video discussing updated killer builds.
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Again, symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.
You don't think it's possible that the destruction of old Hex:Ruin which was crucial for a lot of killers to counter early generator pressure, particularly M1 dependent killers who needed that pressure cause maps are so ridiculously huge, caused a lot of those killers to decide to supplement with a perk that is powerful at endgame do you? Like, they've noticed that since no one is running ruin anymore (except me but I run it with surveillance for sweet, sweet, information more than anything) survivors just seem to ignore totems altogether as there's no point in risking a haunted ground pop and the other hex totem perks are mostly useless?
I mean the old Hex: Ruin was usually gone in the first minute of the game, so many killers ended up with three perks anyway, they've just flipped their power spike from early game to late game. Even better, this is countered the same way Ruin was.
Do Bones, you idiot.
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They're mad they got beat, end of story.
What's dumb is it sounds like the third survivor didn't even get hit unhooking Adam, so he should have had no problem going to unhook the Bill.
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Maybe the better question is why do killers feel the need to slug freshly-unhooked survivors and commit the unpardonable sin of "tunneling" in the first place.
Could it be that generator speeds are so ridiculous that putting a survivor on the ground, even one I can't pick up, slows the game down as Monto would say "just a little bit" occupying at least one other survivor to go for the heal?
What's moronic about DS is it's supposed to fix "tunneling" except we already have a perk for that in borrowed time.
Fixing DS would fix a symptom, not the actual disease. I literally grabbed someone off a generator to start a game as wraith, we're talking 40 seconds max, thanks to two survivors on the same gen and a BNP, a generator POPPED. No chase, no multiple hits, literally grab and hook, 20% of objectives completed in that time.
So yes, I'm going to tunnel and slug you off the hook, and if one of you is on the hook and the other is slugged I'm going to proxy camp you too, and if I don't think that's enough I'm bringing Mori's so I can tell you what I think of your DS as I'm killing you in a way I can only describe as highly disturbing.
And it will not stop until some of this nonsense is addressed.
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An intellectually stirring thread with many meaningful contributions. Bravo good sir.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1134736#Comment_1134736
no it's not because the lobbies have been 10+ minutes for a very long time, they didn't get longer when ruin was changed, they didn't change at all in fact, they've been broken foreverrrrrrrrrrr
Nobody said the lobbies don't have their problems, but to pretend the killer population, particularly at higher ranks hasn't dwindled is just being delusional. Less people playing killer will affect the lobbies, you can't put all of it on the lobbies being broken.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1133925#Comment_1133925
Survivors lobbies have been broken for months and months and months, way before the ruin nerf was even announced, I don't get why the people here keep acting as if it's somehow the cause of it all.
Nobody's saying it's THE cause but it is an underlying factor.
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Until the balance pendulum swings back the other way survivors should just be bringing unbreakable automatically, cause if it's a good killer he's going to slug at least partially during the match if they want to win, it's just not safe to let three survivors have free reign while you take the time to finish chases, hook survivors, then start looking for more.
As far as pure blooded face-camping goes, survivors need to understand the times a killer is likely to camp. I.E. if it's EGC, and I just landed a down, I'm not leaving that hook at that point, I've probably acknowledged that whoever is still alive is getting away and I've accepted that, but I'm not losing the down I just got and if you decide to come take it away from me you're going to either take that survivors place or you're going to get downed too.
As far as proxy-camping, this is a viable strat in situations where survivors have been shown to be severely altruistic to the point of detriment, or for some reason you happen to be able to know that remaining generators aren't being worked on. Case in point, I had a game where I had one player hooked centrally to the map while three generators were all within about 40m of that location. Additionally, thanks to surveillance, I could see all three generators were regressing, meaning no one was working on them, so I waited slightly out of terror radius range until the team decided to try and bumrush the hook, completely avoidable if they had exhibited some generator pressure.
TL:DR. Slugging you're just going to have to deal with cause it's the best generator slowdown in the game. Face-camping should only happen at endgame otherwise killer loses and proxy-camping can be stopped by generator pressure.
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I was frustrated at first, then I adapted, found builds I liked that could work in the meta, and soldiered on back to red ranks.
I've found my new savior in surveillance, combined with the new Hex: Ruin on killers like wraith and hillbilly gives me a lot of information and lets me head off generator progression as much as possible. Infectious fright is great on Billy letting you know if you should hook or go for more downs immediately and slug a little if needs be.
Is it harder now? Undoubtedly. Maps feel way more meaningful than before. Crotus Penn or Ormond just makes you want to cry when you see it pop up.
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It's possible because while you chase 1 survivor, three more are doing generators.
Generators take 80 seconds solo.
With Hag or Trapper you're easily taking 30 seconds or so to setup some preliminary traps, another 20 seconds to find someone, and let's say you are a god among loop deniers and you down them for two hits in 20 seconds, and it takes 10 for you to carry them to a hook. In that time, 80 seconds have passed that all three other survivors know someone else is being chased, so they have been holding M1 the whole time.
Boom, at least 1-2 generators done while you were doing one chase.
As trapper or hag you should zone into the game already thinking about a 3-4 generator strat, you will simply not be able to pressure the whole map. You also should consider slugging to slow down the game, slugging means one survivor on the ground so at least one survivor has to go heal them, if you're chasing a third that only leaves one for generators. To win as a killer right now you either need to slug, or get multiple down consecutively with something like infectious fright.
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1134613#Comment_1134613
Why would you say something so controversial but so brave?
"Stunning and brave"
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Man, can I get these kinds of survivors in a game one time? It would be nice to not have to go full sweaty tryhard for a change and have a survivor help me out.
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@mrdead said:
Make getting up from being slugged basekit. That solves your problem too.
Maybe the better question is why has slugging become so popular as a strategy at multiple phases of a match now.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that killers are trying anything, LITERALLY ANYTHING to slow down generator progression, and a slugged survivor without unbreakable is one that will require another survivor to come pick them up. So keeping 1-2 survivors on the ground is critical to slowing the game down enough to enable the killer some breathing room.
But nah, I'm sure I'm just an entitled killer main who should "stop camping/tunneling/slugging/insert random "ing" here and play the game the right way"
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The problem isn't NOED itself, NOED increasing in use is a byproduct of the destruction of old Hex: Ruin.
As has been stated countless times, Ruin was one of the most, if not the most popular hex totems, and it's effects were known to the survivors literally upon starting their first generator. This usually encouraged players to look for totems which gave killers valuable time to get some momentum before the real generator rush began.
But now Hex: Ruin is barely used if at all since it's re-work is not great except on very few killers (I just hit red ranks using Ruin/Surveillance on Billy, so it does have uses, but they are niche). The fallout of Ruin going by the wayside and the general risky nature of hex perks in general means survivors absolutely ignore bones now in favor of generator rushing because they don't get punished for it. So along comes someone with NOED and DOES punish them for not doing bones and suddenly it's a "crutch perk". No, it's a perk meant to punish you for ignoring the side objective and trying to rush generators and leave immediately.
The question shouldn't be is NOED good or bad for the game, the question should be what can we do to get survivors to care about bones again, and end this ridiculous generator speeds.
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So what you're saying is we should nerf legion?
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@thrawn3054 said:
Nobody said it was toxic. The only time I have an issue with it is when they slug for the 4k. It's boring and a waste of time. Hook the person and take your chances.
As I said in my post, if the 3k was an automatic pip you would see this a lot less often, but thanks for the ######### emblem system sweating the 4k is often the difference between brutal and ruthless.
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Pfft, I just run bamboozle obviously. (Points to temple) can't run a window loop if you can't vault the window.
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Way games are now it's rare that I have a game in hand that early to where I can start deciding whether or not to allow the last survivor to have the hatch.
That said, I usually hook the third survivor and then go searching for the hatch, I don't slug trying to get the 4k. If he finds the hatch first he wins, if I do I win. Simple as that.
Have nothing against those who slug for 4k's though, I totally get it, pipping as a killer can be a gigantic PITA a lot of the time because you have to win the "right" way to pip, game has to take a certain amount of time, have to get enough hooks, don't let generators go too fast, etc.
Honestly I tend to be of the mind that if they made a 3k a guaranteed ruthless you would see a lot less people slugging for the 4k or going super sweaty. But the stupid emblem system means there are times you will get a 3k and still safety pip which is ridiculous.
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If you see it on Billy or Bubba - Someone probably doing the challenge or possibly a baby killer who thinks they need it.
If you see it on Wraith or other M1 Killers - For the most part these are killers that struggle with stopping generator rushes and thus use NOED to punish survivors who generator rush and ignore totems. Survivors have gotten really lazy about cleansing totems ever since the change to Hex: Ruin. In fact, since Hex: Ruin is now no longer good on most of these killers (though I would argue it's pretty good on wraith when combined with surveillance) many of them have started flirting with NOED again in that same slot.
Most survivors don't respect hexes period now so NOED tends to take them by surprise. Add in that M1 killers like to run STBFL and you can machine gun down a lot of people at endgame quite easily.
NOED was always meant to be a punishment for survivors who just gen rushed instead of cleansing totems. The idea was the threat of NOED was enough to convince survivors to spread out and cleanse totems to eliminate the possibility when the last gen pops. This was supposed to help the killer have enough time to start getting some momentum.
Now with no viable early game generator slowdown perk (losing Hex: Ruin with corrupt intervention as a very lackluster replacement) it's not uncommon for killers to see 1-2 generators pop at the conclusion of the first short chase. This is because totems have become completely ignored as survivors know no one is running Hex: Ruin anymore and survivor mains have somehow convinced the entire DBD community that using NOED is a "noob" move, when in reality it would actually serve as a good counterbalance to the generator rushing we're seeing in so many games now.
TL:DR if you see it on a chainsaw wielder it's probably the challenge, if you see it on a pure M1 boi it's probably a killer who wants to punish survivors to lazy to do bones.
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@ZoneDymo said:
I would just love to know what is considered to be a good player.
Like if a survivor runs a killer the entire game and the killer never leaves them, are they then a good player?
And what about the 3 survivors doing nothing but gens the entire game, becasue what else should they do?
Are they good players? on the one hand they merely held M1, but on the other hand they are the ones that progressed the match for their side.....
I mean this is completely up for discussion as a concept outside of the game, how the F is the game going to choose who a good player is?
In all seriousness I would assume this is why the emblem system was implemented. A killer should be focused on halting generator progression, winning chases, and sacrificing survivors.
The problem is the emblem system (at least killer side) penalizes the player for stupid nonsense like if someone kills themselves on their first hook trying to jump off that hurts the killer in the end cause of lack of sacrifices. Or the fact that survivors healing hurts a killers score even though there is obviously times where letting survivors go off and heal while you chase other survivors is a good and sound strategy.
A better, more refined emblem system that takes into account differences in styles between killers would help in defining a "win" and loss.
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@xFAKExAxoN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1123963#Comment_1123963
Yeah I literally had to tell them to leave me and just do gens so that they could escape while I bought them time but it really bothers me that this is actually a kinda common thing that happens, and there isn't much the others can do to counter it besides playing the game as if that survivor doesn't exist or the others doing some kind of play that seems easier said than done
So you were in an SWF with voice communication and you had a flashlight. More details emerging here.
Sorry not buying that this Leatherface just randomly decided to facecamp you. Most killer mains aren't stupid, they know camping one survivor an entire match is an auto-loss so I'm gonna guess you guys bullied him repeatedly, head-on team plays, following him around with the flashlight to blind any pick ups, using OOO and call-outs, etc. And then when he finally caught you he decided that since you wanted to make him miserable in a game that's supposed to be fun he would ruin your fun now.
My guess is you got what was coming to you and now you're salty about it. Survivors can win in this game easily and not be douchebags yet many continue to be because apparently succeeding in a game slanted in your favor is something to be proud of.
I find it doubly hilarious that people are whining about survivor queues, I'm sure that has nothing to do with playing killer being a total sweat-fest just to safety pip while survivors can derp all day with about 4 different second chance perks in addition to to not dying until they're hooked three times and get double pips cause of how ######### the emblem system is.
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@Spectre13 said:
There needs to be a suicide action available to the last survivor of they are downed and EGC has begun. If all the Ghostface is going to do is slug me around and tbag why do I need to hang around for that kind of abuse? Almost wanted to DC and uninstall. Make it so the killer still gets their Damn Quitter Bonus and stop wasting my damn time with toxic killers devs. The toxicity in this game is whats going to kill it in the end but the devs don't seem to care.
If you legitimately think the killers are the toxic part of this game then clearly you've never actually played killer. Particularly against an SWF.
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First off, based on your idiotic response, I gotta assume this is bait, but even still, I can't resist.
Commence troll feeding.
Second, you should try listening clearly, most killers will not risk closing a hatch while survivors are downed and not unhooked because of adrenaline, so frankly I'm skeptical how many times you would even run into this situation. Even in a slugging situation, I'm going to hook everyone first then go looking for the hatch as they die off. In the situation you describe you literally could have alt-tabbed while he was looking for the hatch if you didn't want to wait around. He won the match, he earned his 4k. It's pretty hilarious to watch a survivor whine about always having a chance in a world where DS and Borrowed Time Exist.
Third, you have two ways to escape, gates or getting the hatch. You don't need a third, game is survivor-sided at this point enough as it is.
Fourth, this game isn't supposed to be "fair". You're supposed to be playing a horror game where you're getting chased by a ######### serial killer. The fact that survivors have this level of entitlement is beyond me at this point.
Fifth, yes genius perks are part of the game, and the fact that the two I named are part of the meta means there is literally no excuse for you not to be running one of them, Adrenaline is suited for endgame more while unbreakable counters all slugging situations. It's truly baffling how a survivor main is gonna whine "not everything should rely on a damn perk" meanwhile if a killer complains about generators speeds the response is "bruh just run pop/tremors and pressure gens".
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You have literally two perks that can prevent this exact situation. Unbreakable and Adrenaline, both of which are very "meta". Unbreakable even counters slugging during the whole game and not just endgame.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1120989#Comment_1120989
Yeah BBQ isn't enough bloodpoints for killers, they need more. Especially with ebony moris in every other bloodweb at worst.
It's almost like we're gonna live forever isn't a thing. Literally BBQ for survivors.
Oh right, it's not "meta" so you can't leave behind your precious dead hard, borrowed time, DS, and unbreakable.
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@Might_Oakk said:
I have had a few games recently where the killer just runs knockout and slugs everyone.
Kinda weird they waste as much of their own time as mine and dont get a lot of BP and no bbq multiplier.
Just salty people I guess. Whatever I just go tidy up
You better get used to this. If the new sabo goes live this is what every single killer will be running. Devs idea of an "alternative objective" is apparently to make killers even more miserable then they already are. Now apparently I've got to mindgame in the limited time I've picked someone up in order to not have the hook sabo'ed in front of me in roughly 3 seconds.
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Leatherface positives: Some of the better teachables in the game, knock out is mandatory for slugging builds, BBQ & Chili is almost mandatory for the ridiculous BP grind in this game unless you have a survivor with WGLF you can use to get BP's. Franklin's demise is nice when you see 4 toolboxes or flashlights in their hands.
He can down multiple people with his chainsaw as opposed to Billy who can only down one at a time.
Leatherface negatives: He's a bad M1 killer if you can't catch people out enough to get the chainsaw going. He has no way to stop loops outside of perks, no map or generator pressure without perks.
Recommended Perks: As others have said Nemesis/PWYF is very helpful as it lets you keep moving the obsession to get stacks for speed boosts. Another mandatory in my opinion is Monitor and Abuse for the reduced terror radius to let you get on top of people to start the chainsaw rev. Along that same vein Tinkerer can also be a good substitute. As far as generator perks the standard top tier ones apply (PGtW, Tremors, Corrupt Intervention).
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There isn't really a fix. The game isn't balanced around SWF, but SWF is the main problem with balance.
About the only thing you could do is compensate with more BP's and maybe lower the threshold to safety pip.
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110397#Comment_1110397
it actually makes a lot of sense.
They brought Ruin to slow the game down, now they bring NoeD to force the survivors to do Totems aka slow the game down OR they will get punished for it, which is fine.
Exactly this. Both actually do have the same effect really, they both force survivors to look for totems, which slows down generator completion rates.
Also with how fast gens go now as slowdown perks are all reactive (pop requires a down and hook, tremors requires a down and no guarantee it stops anything, corrupt just takes three gens out of action for a while) most killers just accept that the game will come down to endgame with 2-3 survivors alive at minimum. NOED at least draws the endgame out a little and gives a killer time to mount a comeback.
Personally I'm lukewarm on NOED as it's not a fun perk from the killer side either, it does nothing until late game, it can be cleansed at any time, and when the last gen pops there is no guarantee it's going to net you anything other than 1 extra down. But in the current state of the game killers are looking for something, ANYTHING to slow down generator progression, and forcing totem cleansing is one of the few options left.
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@BloodyNights said:
They won't show swf in the lobby, because killers will lobby dodge, which will increase wait times, something they are trying to cut down on.
Maybe that means SWF was never a good idea?