Kwikwitted
Kwikwitted
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@Deathslinger said:
Wasn’t Legion a group of people, specifically 4? I always thought the other 2 would pop in eventually. Also wish when he was released that each Legion character was slightly different. Like 1 would let you vault windows faster, one would let you vault pallets faster, one would put you in mending longer, and one could use their power longer, by default.
Legion had a lot of potential, and to be low key 4 new killers in one package, but instead we got 2 and they are identical.
Technically depending on cosmetic choices you are one of the four, the cosmetic I use means I technically play as Joey, instead of Frank who is the default male or Julie the default female, I believe Suzie has a cosmetic as well. It's not well fleshed out admittedly, and I have no defense for their very bland lore and atrocious chapter introduction, I just do well with their mechanics.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144040#Comment_1144040
The only thing i learned when watching Trutalent is how blame a game for my mistakes.
Cool story bro.
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"What is the best approach to the killer as a defender of generators or as a chaser or all at once?"
A) So the answer like all things in life is it depends. For example, if the game just started and I come across three survivors on one generator I'm trying to feral frenzy all three at least before focusing one. Usually what I like to do is frenzy all three then return to the gen and see who came back thinking I was going to keep chasing one of the others. But let's say it's mid game and I come across two survivors on the same gen, one is on death hook, the other is not, I may just say screw it and frenzy the death hook target, cancel, and finish the chase and leave the other one alone if I have the generator time to spare, it's really all about feel. Some of this feel can also be accomplished through the use of perks I'll talk about in a minute.
"Is Legion heavily dependent on perks?"
A) Are you reading my mind man?! They are dependent on perks but not more than any other killer, all killers need good perk builds at this point outside of maybe nurse and spirit and Hillbilly. For Legion my personal favorite is what I call the stealthy pressure build.
BBQ and Chili / Monitor and Abuse / Hex: Ruin / Surveillance
So Legion due to the map pressure created through the increased movement speed of frenzy is one of the killers that can use the new Hex: Ruin quite effectively. The idea with this perk build is every time you chase survivors off a generator it not only regresses 200% faster but it will also show white thanks to surveillance, if survivors start progressing the generator again it will glow yellow. As you chase survivors off generators you will start to be able to narrow down which ones they could be working on more and more accurately and this build makes 3 gens a nightmare for survivors. I once had a 5-gen defense going against an SWF team because of this perk combo, it's fantastic. Alternatively you can go with pop goes the weasel and thrilling tremors for a more down and hook based approach, tremors blocks unworked gens and shows you where best to use pop, but I find this combo doesn't give me the same level of information. Admittedly using Hex: Ruin is a hex totem so there may be games where it goes down early, still you can use surveillance with generator kicks if necessary or you suspect survivors will come back to a generator.
You could also take out BBQ and Chili for Nurse's Calling to get some very sneaky hits on people trying to heal after frenzy.
"On which maps can the Legion not show its best?"
A) Like a lot of killers, insanely large maps are just difficult to pressure. Crotus Penn Asylum, Ormond, and Coldwind would be the three worst options. Legion in my experience doesn't do bad on Haddonfield as his feral frenzy can often counter balanced landing, at least for landing injuries.
When I was pushing for rank 1, I burnt every hawkins offering I had, Legion crushes that map hard, same with Lery's.
"Is it difficult for survivors to counter the legion"
A) I don't know if you can really counter him, nor that you necessarily need to, he's going to do what he does, he will feral frenzy, he will cause deep wounds requiring mending, he will keep survivors injured a lot. If survivors spend time healing, they aren't on gens, if they refuse to heal and rush gens, he gets sneaky downs with Monitor and Abuse. Legion also has some very interesting addon choices that can alter how survivors can deal with him. For example the Legion Pin forces survivors hit during killer instinct to be un-healable for 60 seconds. Slap that addon in your slot when you see four med kits and watch the butthurt commence. Likewise you could run the smiley face pin and go for some aura blindness for possible slugging or the defaced smiley ping for causing mangled on hit with killer instinct. Just remember the first hit during frenzy does not impose these effects, if you want your first target to get them you'll need to hit them a second time, canceling your frenzy.
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This is one of the few times where watching a streamer on twitch can actually help, I learned a lot about how to move efficiently and cover distance quicker watching guys like Tru3ta1lent and Otsdarva as they played killer and that made a huge difference, especially on PC where the instinct is to steer with your mouse too much.
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@gatsby said:
@Kwikwitted No one runs Decisive, BT, Unbreakable and Adrenaline
It's Decisive, BT, Exhaustion Perk, Adrenaline and complain on the forums about slugging.
Ah yes, that's the configuration, my bad.
I should also clarify I would prefer the shadow-cloaking ninja Claudettes on every map except any of the Macmillan estates. Cause I will literally never see them at that point.
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This works both ways.
If I kick a generator I may have surveillance and I'm walking away while waiting for the generator to turn yellow showing you're back on it to confirm my suspicions.
While the perks you mentioned do help with detection, the current meta is all second chance perks now, so while you may put value into detection perks, a lot of your survivor brethren don't. Many of us still have the generator grabs to prove it, though admittedly since dedicated servers not so much but that's the servers not the detection perks.
Many killers will also approach generators from certain angles to watch both means of egress, to see if a survivor comes streaking out of there.
We actually do have some counter-play, perks that lower terror radius like Monitor and Abuse or Tinkerer are quite useful in getting close to survivors before they know I'm there.
It's nice that you are thinking of the other side, but believe me, most of us would rather go against shadow-cloaking ninja Claudettes than another 4 survivors all armed with Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, and Adrenaline.
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Hillbilly is probably the strongest of the traditional looping killers. He can't ignore loops like Nurse or Spirit, but he can make them very short if he lands chainsaws. He also has some of the strongest map presence in the game and is one of the few killers who can win consistently on large maps like Coldwind Farm, Ormond, or Crotus Penn Asylum.
Does he have weaknesses? Of course, chainsaws can be juked around tight corners or changing direction last minute, back revving is a learned behavior. He's really rough on maps where he can't zoom around from Chainsaw to Chainsaw, he's probably one of the few killers that doesn't jump for joy getting Hawkins, and not too thrilled for Lery's or the Game either.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144003#Comment_1144003
You are latching on to one thing i said. The point i was making is that is you literally don't even have to loop anymore. Did you not see anything anyone else wrote read this one again
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143764#Comment_1143764
I write an entire paragraph "You are latching on to the one thing I said". No, I wasn't, I wrote multiple paragraphs, but you're just a whiner, and I don't care anymore. If you actually think survivors don't have to loop you're either a terrible killer or you don't play killer at all.
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Legion Main, Rank 1 Responses
"Don't you think he is very weak relative to other killers?"
A) Not particularly, his ability while not the best has many effective uses, it can be used as a location tool, it forces survivors to mend, and is a free hit to injured due to his ability to fast vault both pallets and windows. His smaller stature also makes him difficult to see and with good cosmetic choices he can blend into dark environments quite well.
"What tactics can be applied to the legion"
A) The first and biggest tactic you have to master is understanding when to cancel frenzy early. Learn to judge your Killer Instinct and see if it's worth it to go after another person or cancel early to save some power and continue chasing the person you've already hit. This will give you the best efficiency for your movement. This goes into even more details when you throw in iridescent buttons, as if you sense the survivor you've already hit with deep wounds will keep throwing down pallets it may be worth it to follow them for a second or two to vault and break some for an easier time later. Other tactics I employ is I like treating him as a stealth killer when not in frenzy. Using Monitor and Abuse and Nurse's Calling I catch people healing quite often and again, his small stature and wardrobe choices make him hard to spot, throw in a smaller terror radius and you can get some very cheeky downs without doing a whole lot at time. Also legion's ability to keep an entire team constantly healing or injured slows the game down significantly if applied correctly.
Another tactic is knowing when to frenzy and hit an already injured survivor for information. Suppose for example you have one survivor dead and you're defending a three gen against the other three. An injured survivor is near your furthest generator but is going to get to a pallet before you can catch them, it may be worth it to frenzy, smack the injured survivor forcing them to go mend, while also seeing if the other two survivors are heading towards your other two generators. If they aren't, cancel frenzy and continue chasing, if they are, head back and defend. As long as a survivor isn't actively mending you can smack them in frenzy for good information.
"What is wrong with his ability (What is missing in his ability)?"
I don't know how much more you could pack into his ability and it wouldn't start to cross into overpowered territory, biggest thing I wouldn't mind seeing is making killer instinct a little easier read and react to when it comes to multiple level maps.
"And does the legion need rework?"
I don't think so, and he's not going to get one anytime soon anyway as he's still relatively new compared to older killers. I also completely acknowledge he might not be for everyone.
I don't think he's weak though, he can be devastating to teams that like to heal a lot as he negates that time spent healing almost instantly and he can make teams very uncomfortable who decide to forego healing as the way I play him it's very easy to sneak up for single hits which if a person is already injured and didn't bother healing cause of feral frenzy means it's time to meet Mr. Hook.
Where we are in agreement is the theme of that chapter doesn't fit the Legion at all. A killer with the some kind of shape shifting or hallucination ability would have been a much better fit.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143988#Comment_1143988
Don't act like you are special I am regularly rank 1 as well, been playing since Jan 2018, i'm rank 1 basically every time. I know how to play this game. The point i am making is that it is not balanced, and it is plain not fair. Howling on the forums is exactly the only point of contact i have with the devs, and i am trying to get through to them and the community, because if they don't do something about it, this game wont last. You NEED high level players (and streamers) to keep this game alive, and the more and more they put off actually balancing this game, the more likely it is that it ends. The only reason that it is still around is there hasn't been another asymmetrical game that has come around to take its place. But if they don't do something, it will happen.
You can talk about "advice" and "pointers" all you want. That's not what this is about. This game is unbalanced at top level play, period, and everyone knows it.
Yeah not buying it, sorry, you can't whine about something as inane as survivors dropping pallets without looping then try to say "but nah bro, I'm rank 1 all the time, I just think it's cool to complain about this". Spare me please.
I didn't say I was special, the point was if people can regularly make rank 1 killer can't be THAT unbalanced. As I've said, if you expect to win every game you're either an entitled child who doesn't know that when you play against other humans in ANY game you may lose occasionally, or you're as bad as an entitled survivor main who rages in after game chat cause they got sacrificed.
And yes, all you are doing is whining on the forums which is not productive, you provide no suggestions for solutions unlike many others who have discussed the issues with map size, generator speeds, and second chance perks. You whine about survivors NOT looping? Again, not buying your actually red ranks if this would actually make you upset. I would literally KILL for survivor that played like this, the pallets would be gone before the third generator was popped and then it would just be survivor getting mowed down constantly.
And wow, you talk about me thinking I'm special? "I am trying to get through to them and the community" who the ######### are you again? It's funny you mention streamers, I don't see Tru3ta1ent or Not Otsdarva having any trouble playing killer or survivor, as both routinely reach Rank 1 on both sides, so what the ######### is your excuse again for why you can't hack it? Oh right, the game is "unbalanced".
And what the ######### are you talking about? There's been other asymmetrical games that have come out, Christ it's a running joke on Samination's DBD parody videos talking about "remember when last year was going to kill this game?". End of the day DBD for better or worse is the World of Warcraft of this genre, it was the first to get super popular and will unlikely be knocked off the mountain until the inevitable decline of the genre.
No online game in the history of ever has been balanced around top end play, EVER. League of legends isn't, World of Warcraft wasn't, none of them are. Balancing your game around the top end alienates the rest of the playerbase, BHVR knows this, and yes they will tend to side on the survivor side, either adapt or quit.
But clearly you don't want to hear anyone give you help, you just wanna whine. So git gud or don't.
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@Heartbound said:
I like it. Also an Ultra rare that makes the plague be able to puke behind her but brown would help too I think.
Get those people running behind you. They'll never see it coming until it's too late.
All I'm thinking now is "here comes the crapper"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUeI4RnT1KU&t=265s
For those wondering, the reference I"m referring to is at 5:37
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This kind of makes me want to feed them more now though.
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What's even weirder is it goes the opposite way sometimes.
I didn't get it much when I was pushing to Rank 1, but now that I'm at Rank 1 again I get random matches against greens and purples every 4th match or so. I feel so bad because I don't turn down the tryhard until they're all on death hook and five gens are still alive and I realize "oh god, I've been terrorizing these poor players, no wonder they're just hiding now afraid to even touch a generator for fear I'm going to know where they are".
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143785#Comment_1143785
I'm tired of hearing that excuse
Will there be times where you just get merked by an SWF sweaty group on comms playing super safe? Possibly, but at worst each game you can only lose one pip.
It doesn't MATTER. if that exists as a possibility, a team that can't be beaten, then the game is inherently unbalanced.
I don't know where you got this idea that I said the game was balanced. It's not. But my points were to give you the best chance to win games over time. Think of it like playing poker, even if you play perfectly you will not win every time, your goal is to make the best possible decisions and ideally make better decisions than your opponents over time in the long run.
I got bad news for you there champ, there may be games where you just flat out lose against 4 completely solo survivors who just know how to loop and make you look like a chump for 7 straight minutes to the point where you want to quit the game, it's happened to everyone, hell it's happened to me and I've hit rank 1 over multiple reset periods both before and after Ruin's changes. There will also be times where you will beat an SWF because they get cocky, make mistakes, try to meme too much, or get too altruistic or they just flat out aren't that good or you're that much better.
Is SWF frustrating to go against? Most of the time yeah, but that feature isn't going away when the side of the playerbase buying most of the cosmetics demanded it be included in the game. Not to mention all the free publicity they get from streamers doing SWF with subscribers and followers. To be blunt, adapt or quit, but howling on the forums isn't going to do much more for you. People have given you advice and pointers, either practice and get better or stop playing killer if it makes you that unhappy.
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The Devs could literally do nothing but that suggested decisive strike change and they would eliminate 50% of the hatred on these forums immediately.
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@yobuddd said:
I say play casual. Practice your chases, and consider anything you earn as bonus. This team is designed to quickly repair 2 gens and escape.
That’s fine and dandy. They get to play for 4 minutes and then go back to their campfire simulator for the next 10 minutes. You, on the other hand, get to instantly start up your next match against a new team and keep having fun. Not sure why they choose to spend their time like this, rushing from campfire to campfire, but oh well. Let ‘em!
So because they stacked the deck with a key and toolboxes, you're advice to the killer is "it's just a game bro". So because they took it seriously the killer isn't allowed to? Seems a little bit of a double standard.
While I agree they will spend way more time in queue than you, if you are someone who does have a rank goal or is looking to pip up getting a de-pip cause some 4 man sweatfest brought in every unbalanced advantage in the book isn't particularly fair.
Now if survivors bringing a key automatically guaranteed a safety pip for the killer this would be a different story, but as it currently stands the killer is left with a no-win game, a de-pip for their trouble, and a frankly crap experience just cause a group of survivors wanted to stack the deck.
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@NoMitherPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143785#Comment_1143785
Put a pink mori or the thing which makes them spawn not together so they see a dark offering from you. Combine this with a stealthy killer and an unpredictable gameplay, fear will eat them, if not suicide on hook right away. This way you won't have to play depending on their altruistic mistakes but the opposite kind.
You have a valid point in the ebony mori, it often makes survivors more skittish and scared of getting killed early. But if you read the OP's original complaint his problem is that survivors are playing too safe already, so it's hard to see how bringing a mori would help his problem, survivors would play even more safe against him than they do now.
As far as the shroud of separation (the thing which makes them spawn not together) I'd argue in the current balance of the game this is a detriment more than a help, particularly depending on which killer you are playing. Separated survivors means up to 3 could be working on generators while you are chasing the first one you find, and three generators can pop after one chase. I'm much more inclined to prefer survivors be stacked together on one generator, that way when I disrupt them, they all need to vacate the area to another generator or risk getting hit by returning to the one they were on right away.
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Fries or Hashbrowns? Makes a difference, just saying.
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Are you not aware that Mori's require you to be hooked at least once to be used?
Also sorry, not taking anyone seriously who think Mori's are overpowered but thinks keys "are ok, just need some counterplay" as if the problem with keys is that I can't time the grab in a hatch standoff and not that once I've worked my butt off to get a defendable three gen in a tight game that survivors can just find a key in a chest and be all "Ight, Imma head out" and give me the giant middle finger in the process.
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I'll share the two builds I used to get to rank 1 this reset primarily. Don't know how effective they will be for anyone else.
Legion Sneaky Pressure Build:
BBQ and Chili / Monitor and Abuse / Hex: Ruin / Surveillance.
The idea of this build is to get injuries often with frenzy and get downs using a smaller terror radius and then sneak up on survivors while they work on generators or I hear them while patrolling. Hex: Ruin gives me generator regression every time I push survivors off generators and surveillance keeps track of all regressing generators so I know where to patrol. Only major disadvantage is a reliance on hex perk and we all know the inherent dangers in that. If you feel you get enough information from Ruin/Surveillance that you don't need BBQ and Chili I would substitute with Nurse's Calling.
Best Addons: Iridescent Button, Cold Dirt, Stolen Sketchbook, maybe filthy blade. If running button, always try to get survivors to drop pallets during frenzy, once you realize they won't, then cancel and resume chase, but look for opportunities for skittish survivors to panic drop and maximize that destruction. If not using button, cold dirt is the best cooldown addon and stolen sketchbook provides maximum duration. You could also consider filthy blade just for additional mending time and slowdown.
Hillbilly Snowball Build:
BBQ and Chili / Infectious Fright / Thrilling Tremors / Pop goes the Weasel.
Billy unlike Legion can go straight from healthy to insta-down thanks to chainsaw, so this build is designed to maximize that pressure. Infectious Fright lets him know if he can slug if he needs to and no one is around or if there's a chance for a double down. Thrilling Tremors shows what gens are being worked on and block unworked gens for a time and pop goes the weasel provides huge regression on the targeted generator tremors showed you. BBQ and Chili has always been great on billy due to his map mobility but if you want to switch it out for another perk as tremors gives you a lot of location information already you can.
Best Addons: Up to you, Billy's chainsaw is pretty versatile, pick what you're comfortable with.
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Teleportation is not available until 10 seconds into the game. Show the clip of him doing it in the first three second and send it to BHVR, or more likely it seemed faster than it actually was.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
Who would ever pretend that NOED is fine? Its common sense that this perk is the worst design in game.
Appeals to some unknown majority that you claim agrees with you is not an argument.
FACT: NOED is completely countered by survivor actions if 5 totems are cleansed.
FACT: Survivors have a perk (small game), and an addon (map) to aid them in this task.
FACT: Killers using NOED run effectively three perks until endgame, giving them 75% perk effectiveness and an inherent disadvantage until endgame if using NOED, there is risk in running it. Meanwhile all survivor second chance perks have no such drawback.
FACT: Even if you make it to endgame and someone is downed by NOED, survivors, assuming they didn't derp and immediately open the gate, have ample time to find the lit totem, disable it, complete the rescue and escape. Or just leave that one survivor, as you are not entitled to a 4 escape in the first place.
Spare us your bad faith argument tactics, that second grade crap is just painful to watch.
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Top 3 would probably be Ormond, Crotus Penn Asylum, and Coldwind Farm Maps with Haddonfield following close behind.
Ormond is huge, has some incredibly safe loops that can't really be mind gamed, and if the middle generator gets done you are pretty much resigned to a 3-gen strategy.
Crotus Penn is huge (noticing a theme yet?), has some loops but they're not quite as safe, and again has a middle generator that if it gets completed means you pretty much have to pick one side.
Coldwind farm is huge (imagine my shock), the corn obscures vision and scratch marks, and a lot of the generators are inside T-wall and L-wall combinations that can be tough to mind game all the time.
Haddonfield is a smaller map but it wins the award for "oh christ if they selected this ######### map that means they all have balanced landing and I may just DC" map. Also a lot of the generators will be inside the houses leaving survivors guaranteed avenues of escape since the killer can't be coming through the roof in this movie.
Maps like the Swamp, Macmillan's estate, and autohaven are more dependent on your killer, the exact configuration of generators and pallet loops, and which of the sub-maps you actually got. Ironworks of infinites on Macmillan can be a nightmare but something like gas heaven on autohaven wreckers I find to be relatively balanced.
Really the only maps that I would say are definitely killer sided are in my opinion definitely Hawkins Laboratory, Lery's Memorial Institute, and MAYBE the game.
Hawkins is probably the most killer sided map in the game. Almost every pallet is unsafe, there is only a couple solid loops in the inside section and most of the generators are close together.
Lery's is more spread out but has almost no pallets and most windows have a side door allowing killers to catch up to vaulters relatively easily. Scratched mirror Myers personal favorite as well.
The Game is more if the pallet setup didn't completely bend you over and take your virtue, and it's two levels can be tricky getting around, but this one is WAY more hit or miss than Hawkins and Lery's.
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As others have said, the solutions are pretty straightforward.
If playing a killer that can't bypass/mindgame loops, break the pallets, but be mindful of where the chase is happening, if it's one jungle gym with a distance to the next obstacle pursue the chase, if they just ran into a killer shack with no generator in there I say let them have it and break contact.
Knowing when to chase is almost as important as how good of a chaser you are.
Another thing that may help is stealth-based killers. At the end of the day if they know you're there until you're on top of them that's often a free hit. Even if your'e not running a stealth character, a perk like Monitor and Abuse can work wonders in just letting you get that first hit quickly, cutting down your overall chase times.
This is pretty much how I play my Legion, feral frenzy lets me score injuries easily enough and then M&A combined with maybe Nurse's calling let's me sneak up for easy hits while survivors are healing, or sneak up on them doing generators.
Another solution that is a little counter-intuitive is bloody party streamers, yes you heard me right.
See, times are hard for them survivor mains, points are at a premium, and unhooking gets them a lot of them, bringing a party streamer really gives them an incentive for someone to go down for some hits. A lot of time streamers gets survivors to play a lot more altruistic, and as a killer you can exploit that. Just some thoughts.
Will there be times where you just get merked by an SWF sweaty group on comms playing super safe? Possibly, but at worst each game you can only lose one pip.
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As others have said, some fights just aren't worth taking. Pop smoke and go for the next lobby.
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In the words of The Trapper.
"Maybe you do bones next time"
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@Mo4ntus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143668#Comment_1143668
Honestly I wouldn’t know I’m a pig main so truly sweaty games are few and far between now
It's interesting, pig's main strength was her ability to get survivors to focus on jigsaw boxes and less on generators, which was a niche and gimmicky when first released an had her as middle of the pack, now because any kind of distraction or generator slowdown is the equivalent to manna from heaven she's risen exponentially in both popularity and ranking.
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@Mo4ntus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143657#Comment_1143657
Because there isn’t near enough killers anymore they care about finding rank less more than ever so you at rank 1 are probably gonna see more lower ranks now just because those people need games too
It's just amusing because I assumed that I would be making life harder for myself by going to rank 1 this reset and dealing with just red ranks as far as the eye could see and I had accepted that. I really just wanted to hit it one more time to prove I could and double confirm the achieve before MMR takes over. Little did I know for relaxing games I should tryhard to rank 1 and now get matched up with the rainbow lol.
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@kosmi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142373#Comment_1142373
Well i was thinking about that and if they do that early i will tunnel them out, but in some cirital state like 2 or 1 gen away from esc eating ds that time can really be fatal.
Very true, situations do apply, what I said applies to early game with someone who thinks burning their DS at five gens is wise, I like showing them how wrong they are.
So one thing I have also found to be effective is baiting them out, I pulled this off on Yamaoka yesterday, girl was unhooked I downed the unhooker, found her as she was trying to flashlight save and she runs into a locker, I ducked out of site of the third person view until I heard the locker open, popped out and slugged her and did the killer t-bag (spamming head nodding is the best any non-ghostface can do, but still).
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@Mo4ntus said:
Forgot to include to remember that survivors are so boosted that you really only get good ones like once every 10 games
See it's funny you say that because I found it to be really rough sledding up till about the just pipping into rank 2, then suddenly I went from every game is all red ranks to suddenly getting random purples and greens. Hell just now I played against a red and three purples as a rank 2 with 3 pips, I mean wth? I fully expected that from now until reset I would get nothing but the toughest survivors available at all times, but it's like crossed some invisible fence and the game is spoonfeeding me double pips now that they are useless to me lol.
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Did we really need another thread on this? This horse has been all but powderized at this point.
Yes, NOED is not toxic, at least in the current definition of the word.
Yes, NOED is a punishment for gen rushing and ignoring totems.
Survivors who complain about NOED are 4heads who are either are too lazy to do bones, or try to bum rush a hook while NOED is active instead of going and cleansing it.
/thread.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142906#Comment_1142906
I have literally criticised survivor mains and killer mains in this very thread. I don't main either side but as a killer main you have gone for the boring accusation of being a survivor main because I don't follow your BS explanation of why you have to do certain things.
If you want to put someone on the floor after being unhooked to try and get someone to come and heal them then go for it but don't be moaning when it turns out they had unbreakable and didn't need someone to get them off the floor.
You have the mentality of a killer main who thinks all gens must stay up at all times otherwise you haven't won. If someone with DS hops in a locker next to a gen then leave them. It is 60 seconds from the unhook, so unless you have followed them directly off that hook to the gen, they can't have anywhere near 60 seconds left. There is always an excuse from either side when they only play one half of the game. It is a game. Lighten up and stop taking every moment of it seriously.
You want to avoid survivors using popular perks then stop displaying the behaviours that require them to use them. If killers stopped tunnelling off the hook DS wouldn't be needed would it? It exists because of the way many killers play. Same goes for borrowed time. It would make these perk slots a waste of time but rather than modify gameplay the tunnellers and campers come on here and cry at the devs for changes to make it easier for them to camp and tunnel.
First off, I didn't criticize unbreakable, I was responding to why you think unbreakable is in the game which spoiler alert, it's not, it's to counter slugging as a strategy, not to counter me "slugging just cause of DS". Unbreakable is a perfectly reasonable counterplay to slugging as it is only usable once per match. My complaints are with DS primarily, BT is even usually fine though at endgame it becomes a little broken but that's a reasonable expectation.
I like how you whine about my "lazy characterization" and then proceed to do one of your own. I don't care if all gens are up at all times, but 1-2 gens popping after the first chase puts unrealistic pressure on every killer in every situation as you've probably already screwed any chance of pipping and now will probably have to scramble for safety pip. Meanwhile a survivor can do 1.5 gens, get chased for about a minute, do 1-2 unhooks and get a pip even when they die. My issue is killer is designed right now to be a sweatfest unless you like de-pipping while survivor is literally a participation trophy and survivors don't seem to understand why killers are getting frustrated with 4-5 second chance perks being meta right now.
And bruh, do not try this entry level psychology "well if you stop doing X they will stop using Y perk" nonsense. That has never worked in the history of ever, people will gravitate to the strongest perks regardless of killer behavior. Want proof? Watch how many times killers get called sluggers/campers/tunnelers in an after game chat even when the killer did nothing of the sort. So spare me your 9th grade psychology lesson there champ.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142884#Comment_1142884
There was a post about infectious fright needing a nerf ( i think its balanced) and some people were telling him about calm spirit but others were just insuling him
Because it's obviously a situation where said perk just hurt him in one game so his overreaction is to complain and ask for it to be nerfed, which is insanity.
This is the kind of stuff that makes survivor mains or survivor-sided players look out of touch and frankly stupid, whining about a perk on a whim when killers tend to be bringing up issues they see in EVERY game.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142872#Comment_1142872
Counter for DS - Don't tunnel off the hook
Counter for BT - Don't camp and if you must camp, don't tunnel off the hook.
Counter for Unbreakable - Don't slug. Or the more realistic example - Don't tunnel off the hook and then slug to try and avoid DS.
You're overly simplistic responses completely ignore the current state of gen speeds, which necessitates slugging often to slow the game down, and shows a blatant ignorance of how killers operate currently.
Don't come at me with this simplistic bullshit and pretend like you said something profound.
As far as your "don't tunnel" response to DS and "don't slug to avoid DS" to unbreakable, he's a query, what am I supposed to do when a survivor locks themselves in a locker next to a generator coming off the hook? Can't grab them cause DS, can't leave them cause they'll just start knocking out a generator, can't slug cause locker. Answer that query for me please.
Slugging is absolutely necessary for some killers now to have any hope of slowing down gens long enough to get a handle on the game, just letting survivors run off to do gens cause "I don't want to tunnel" is the kind of simplistic nonsense only a survivor main would spout off.
Just sit over there in the corner.
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Obvious bait is obvious.
I mean if you wanna get a 1k and de-pip with minimal points that's your business there boss, but can you just go ahead and disavow yourself from the rest of us killer mains? I don't want your stink on me.
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Went from Rank 10 to Rank 1 after not playing for a couple months this past reset. Here's how I did it.
(From my previous thread)
I'm not going to pretend this is some kind of insider information or that other people have not brought some of this information to the masses, but it seems to be stuff that is getting left off of a lot of videos even of top tier killer mains.
Before we begin, this isn't a guide for rank 20's, this assumes you already are at least a purple level of skill who is looking to get that final push and get into the red ranks or rank 1.
Q: Does rank 1 matter?
A: No, except for the achievement which may or may not go away when BHVR decides the best way to fix matchmaking is not show us rankings anymore and pretending it's fixed, so this is for those sweaty bastards trying to get this done before it's gone.
1) Location, location, location.
Map offerings are the secret OP weapon for killers, a good map puts you at an immediate advantage. If you are an area killer like Hag or Trapper a smaller map makes your life a lot easier to the point you may not have to be chained to corrupt intervention, if you are a killer like Billy or Nurse with good range maps with lots of open terrain may be better. Realistically analyze yourself on what maps you do best on, then stockpile those addons for your inevitable push.
2) Prepare for the journey.
Like with map offerings it may prudent to spend a month farming bloodpoints for addons and map offerings for your big push, it's going to be important you have your best tools available. Depending on your killer you may have to settle for a good supply of their second best addons depending on how rare their best addons are. Remember the month you plan to do this is not the month you care about BP, so unless your killer really benefits from BBQ and Chili you may be leaving it home this month, and speaking of perks, so that brings me to........
3) Generator slowdown and information.
With the changes to Hex: Ruin it would seem two perk combinations are best for generator slowdown/information.
Combo 1: Hex: Ruin/Surveillance
Positives: If a generator is regressing it is highlighted in white, if it stopped regressing it goes yellow, this will give you an ungodly level of map awareness and help you not waste a lot of time past your original generator patrol. It also helps with finding your first survivor as you approach a generator if it goes white there was a survivor on it. It makes three generator strategies downright devastating as well. Much more fire and forget than the Combo 2.
Negatives: It's a totem, the inherent risk is always it will start in a terrible spot and get cleansed immediately by survivor who spawned literally next to it. Without the Ruin surveillance becomes much more onerous to utilize, requiring a lot of generator kicks to get value from.
Combo 2: Thrilling Tremors/Pop Goes the Weasel
Positives: Stops anyone heading to generators who isn't already working on them, allows you to immediately know which generator is unblocked and go and regress it with Weasel.
Negatives: Both perks require you to down and hook to become effective, meaning you have to be on with pressure right from the jump. Pop and Tremors both have cooldowns that need to be managed efficiently.
Overall combo 1 has more risks but is easier to implement, combo 2 can be more devastating but it's completely based on you getting downs and hooks constantly.
4) Lobby Dodging
People may not like it, but it's the truth, if you see 4 toolboxes, you're lobby dodging, you're not trying to have some "fun experience" you're trying to pip, having three gens pop in 80 seconds is a surefire safety pip at best, we're not looking for that, use your best judgment but for this month you're trying to optimize, you only gotta wait five seconds to re queue.
5) 1-2 Killers
Again, this is not ideal fun, but to stockpile the addons and map offerings 1-2 killers is most likely the best option. Trying to stockpile on too many killers may take too long and really you should be playing your top two killers at all times anyway. Again, you can have fun next month, this is to get to the top of the mountain.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
How come the killers who complain about ds bt dh and adren are the ones using noed
Maybe because using DS, BT, and Unbreakable (no idea what DH is) have no downsides whatsoever, they just exist as second chance perks with no ability to get around them. DS is invulnerability to getting hooked for 60 seconds, Unbreakable invalidates slugging, and BT means you can unhook right in a killers face. Meanwhile NOED can be completely neutralized by cleansing the five totems (hilariously easy with small game) or just cleansing the lit totem at endgame when it's revealed NOED is in play.
Better question is how do 4 survivors who should all be thinking humans not see someone get insta-downed and think "well instead of going to look for that totem, I should open the exit gates and then bum rush the hook, yeah, that's the best strategy".
Honestly if you go from 4 escapes to 4k'ed off of a NOED you might actually be just a 4head with no brain to speak of. Let the person who got caught dangle for a bit, go cleanse the totem, then complete your escape.
(Disclaimer: Don't use NOED personally, but NOED is not a "bad killer perk" it's a perk designed to punish gen rushing and ignoring of totems, something survivors do quite often now due to loss of Hex: Ruin's original intended purpose).
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
Everytime a survivor complains about anything they get harassed by killer mains who call them entitled,crybabys or toxic and tell them to git gud instead of just discussing why they disagree with the survivor. Can anyone tell me why? Killers call survivors toxic over everything but insulting someone for there opinion also sounds a bit toxic.
So coming from a killer main who's been rank 1 both before and after the changes to Hex: Ruin.
First off many killer complaints are met with the same toxicity from survivor mains, to pretend this issue only goes in one direction is laughable. Second looking at your username I'm not entirely sure this isn't bait, but hell, I typed this already.
So survivor complaints on the forums anyway are usually dismissed because they are scattershot and tend to just be "X perk was frustrating me in the last game so now I'm going to rant about it". I mean we have a post up here right now complaining about infectious fright, a perk literally countered by either calm spirit, splitting up, or just hiding if you get revealed as the perk doesn't even show auras. Hell we had a thread last night complaining about Franklin's demise? Really?
You'll notice killer complaints across the board tend to be very uniform, which is why people give more credence to them. The most popular being.
1) Map design, particularly Ormond and Crotus Penn. Gigantic maps are pretty much safety pip at best for killers now due to lack of early game generator slowdown due to the changes to Hex: Ruin.
2) Generators popping early game immediately putting killers on the back foot and scrambling to even safety pip, going back to problem one and the lack of ruin, maps being so large it's entirely common to finish one short chase, do a hook, and watch 1-2 generators pop. This now puts the killer in a position where they have accomplished 1/12th of their goals, while the survivors have completed 1-2/5 of theirs.
Killers call survivors toxic and survivors call killers toxic, this is nothing new in a pvp style game community, particularly one with asymmetrical PVP, but to pretend it's all going in one direction is just silly.
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@Fjielsonson said:
To be honest, i'm permanent rank 1 survivor Main and this perk is in my opinion absolutely useless unless there is someone who wants to flashlightsave. I would rather buff the perk so the killer can see the aura of screaming survivors for 5 seconds or the survivors get the Status effect exhausted. (Just my option, i got ~5000 survivor games and maybe ~200 killer games).
In general i dont like to See every "noob-survivor" at Red ranks only because the Play very much. Killers in generell should get buffed way more and it should get harder to pip as survivor.
They should Balance their game looking at high skill plays.. otherwise it is not balancing rather than making something overpowered.
Now.. hate me.
HATE YOU?!
My dear man I could kiss you. A survivor main with actual perspective about how painfully easy it is to hit red ranks as survivor meanwhile killers have to literally reach sauna levels of sweat to the get to the same ranks? Are you real? You're like a unicorn. You give me hope for the other side of this community my friend.
Oh and to address the OP who I can only assume is a baby survivor's gripe about infectious fright, simple, don't be together, the perk is designed to punish sabo and flashlight players who feel the need to dry hump my leg as I'm finishing a chase so they can get their precious "gotcha" moment.
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POINT =/= PIPS
How many times does someone have to explain that to you? Oh right plenty because you clearly don't play killer at any high level. Everyone knows killers get more points, it's because we lose our addons and offerings every match regardless of outcome, and we have a perk that is not only a double BP boost but also serves as a decent locator perk, YOU'RE NOT SAYING ANYTHING PEOPLE DON'T ALREADY KNOW.
What people have been trying to explain to you, for what feels like the umpteenth time now you simpleton, is getting a load of points does not and has not ever guaranteed a pip. Meanwhile survivors can pip relatively easily just doing gens, and even if they fail in chases, and as long as the chases were of sufficient length they will qualify overall, they don't need to escape to pip. Meanwhile killers, particularly in red ranks, have to get 13-15 emblem points to get one pip. What's that? Two gens popped cause of BNP? Tough, enjoy your silver gatekeeper. Some douchebag survivor decided to try and yeet off the hook and died after one hook? Tough, enjoy your silver devout because you don't get those other two hooks now.
I get it, you're a casual player, but stop spouting off about stuff you don't understand.
- Signed an Actual Rank 1 Killer Main.
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Get decisive strike, problem solved.
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@LoverOfDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142555#Comment_1142555
I guess you missed the part where I said "we want to rework these said maps"
I didn't miss it, it was the one part of your whine fest that made any sense.
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I don't care how pure and wholesome you make a video game, people will find a way to be toxic in it. Trying to eliminate all toxicity from any game is a fool's errand. I'd much rather they focused on the things that do matter like map size.
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@FixYourGameDevs said:
Survivors are likely better at skill checks and Ruin is no longer
If anything, Ruin probably trained survivors to get better at skill checks
Generator regression is more on the killer now as opposed to old Ruin's fire and forget.
But as BigTimeGamer already mentioned, Ruin's removal has revealed that the larger maps are very survivor-sided, as very few killers can exert enough pressure over such a wide expanse of ground.
You need to figure out what you're playing for, if it's just to have fun ignore this, if you want to do well...
1) Use map offerings for killer sided maps.
2) Use generator regression perks, Pop goes the weasel, thrilling tremors, overcharge. Generator regression is on the killer much more directly.
Is it more of a pain in the ass now than it was before? Yes. Does this mean it's impossible? No, but don't expect to 4k every game either.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142402#Comment_1142402
It's definetly more consistent than borrowed atm.
I'm surprised people are even running it now, Unbreakable and DS seems much more effective and have the added bonus of preventing slugging to boot.
I think this is why the devs aren't that interested in addressing BT right now, there's too many second chance perks as it is.
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I wish in my heart of hearts I could teabag with other killers. I would teabag every flashlight noob3 Nea wannabee so hard my balls would reek of earl grey for a month.
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142340#Comment_1142340
It's sad. When the survivors have fun in a game, the killers don't. And when the killer have fun, the survivors don't. It really is like a never ending conflict.
I mean I have a perfectly good time with a 2k against good survivors that didn't bring 4 commodious toolboxes and finish the gens in 4 minutes. The crazy power spikes go both ways.
Addons in general really throw the game balance off, it's one of the biggest issues, along with map sizes. The problem is addons are how BHVR extends the blood point grind and thus, it's not going away.
What amazes is me is when I use a red addon that is hardly OP, in my case the iridescent button on Legion. It's hilarious that red rank survivors don't realize they should just wait for me to end frenzy instead of dropping every pallet in site for me to easily vault and destroy. Like really? The first time I do it you gotta know I got it right? Just stop dropping pallets and wait for me to either go to someone else or cancel frenzy to finish you off.
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Technically wouldn't DS or Unbreakable be better anti-tunneling perks at this point? DS counter picking you up and unbreakable counters being slugged?
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Yeah sorry to burst your bubble there homey, but killers aren't complete idiots.
We are intimately aware that self-care is shall we say "fallen out of the meta" and thus, most survivors like to use med kits to compensate.
So yes, we're going to take that precious medkit away, because then that means you have to go find a companion to heal with, and that's two people not doing gens.
Seriously though, out of all the perks survivors whine about, this was refreshing in an odd way, I mean Franklin's demise? Really?
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I just grab them and eat the DS then tunnel them right out of the game immediately after. If you wanna force me to eat DS instead of just slugging you I'm happy to take you out right now.