Kwikwitted
Kwikwitted
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With the recent buffs he received he's definitely squarely in the B+ tier.
The reduction in contamination needed for T2 was a godsend. With Marvin's blood just two tentacle hits on survivors means you can immediately start munching pallets and going through walls like the Kool-aid man. Nemesis is one of the few killers that I don't mind if I get the game since he can play over pallets very well while at the same time shredding through them very quickly. His T3 now has exceptional range. His zombies will always be a weakpoint in terms of any kind of pressure but they are nice for map awareness and tracking.
His biggest weakness will be his lack of any mobility enhancement making large open maps horrendous for him. Another weakness for Nemesis in the current meta is because he will get a lot of downs with his tentacle rather than M1 he's not a good candidate for any slug meta builds since Knockout doesn't work on Tentacle downs.
Overall he's…….solid. Nowhere near the Nurse and Blight tier and Below the Hillbilly/Spirit tier but definitely doing better than many other options.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883918#Comment_3883918
As I just laid out, the 20 second increase on hook states at worst gives you an opportunity to generate more value, it's not just a negative scenario for you. This is also if survivors even choose to take that risk, which most won't- it just doesn't feature in most matches at all.
If you have one on hook and one in chase, that does occupy three survivors? Someone has to come off generators to save the person on hook, too, that's not unique to slugging. Leaving someone on the ground and hooking that person is the same in the sense that three survivors are occupied, but hooking is better because it directly progresses your objective faster, it fully immobilises someone instead of just slowing them down a lot, and it puts a sharper time pressure on survivors to come rescue.
As for hook denial strategies like flashlights and the like, we're on firmer ground because there is one issue there… but we're also downgraded "hooks aren't worth it" to "one specific perk has one specific interaction that is unfair". Those are extremely different situations. Actually getting the hook gives as much value by default as it ever has, it's just slightly harder in an unfair way in one specific scenario.
The most reasonable conclusion to draw there is "When we address aggressive slugging, also make sure to fix the collision issue with pickups".
How does giving survivors an extra 20 seconds to finish generators give the KILLER value exactly?
Also, no, hooked survivors are easily located thanks to the notification upon hook (also if one survivor is running kindred they are seen at all times including killer aura when close to hook). There is no searching for them as opposed to a slugged survivor with knockout, THAT'S where the time difference come in. Also thanks to the longer hook states survivors can unhook another survivor at their leisure, usually after they complete a generator, while slugged survivors have to be located quicker since bleed out meter does not reset upon being picked up.
"Hooking directly progresses your objective faster". No it doesn't, my objective is not to get 12 hooks, it's to get kills, and I can accomplish that through a variety of means including Mori, 3 hook states, or bleed out.
"it fully immobilizes someone instead of just slowing them down a lot" Again the value in slugging is not the slug itself, it's forcing them to be searched for via knockout.
"puts a sharper time pressure on survivors to come rescue" again no it doesn't, bleed out meter doesn't reset, meaning it's one timer cumulative that has to tick down, as opposed to two individual hook states with their own separate timers.
"As for hook denial strategies like flashlights and the like, we're on firmer ground because there is one issue there… but we're also downgraded "hooks aren't worth it" to "one specific perk has one specific interaction that is unfair". Those are
extremelydifferent situations. Actually getting the hook gives as much value by default as it ever has, it's just slightly harder in an unfair way in one specific scenario."Hooks still aren't worth it as the nerfs to slowdown perks and the continued length of hook states gives survivors more leniency on when to unhook while not providing enough slowdown to counter the pressure from slugging with knockout. No we are still not in agreement here, but I appreciate you acknowledging the Collison issue.
We're going to be at an impasse here, but the truth of the matter is killers didn't wake up one day deciding to slug, and slugging results in fewer bloodpoints and also higher risk because if the strat doesn't work. Clearly there had to be a significant shift over time that cause a bunch of killers who WERE using hook perks up until recently to suddenly all switch en masse.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883896#Comment_3883896
I mean, it wasn't needed. I said as much when it happened, it was an unnecessary change that has basically zero impact on the perk. I'm not proving your point at all, I'm bolstering mine, lol.
When you say hooking has "not only been nerfed for killers, it's been buffed for survivors", don't you mean just that it's been buffed for survviors? None of those things are things that makes hooking weaker, they're either just nice buffs for the survivor (Dead Hard, Deliverance), anti-tunnel (DS, Shoulder the Burden), or anti-camp (increased hook timer).
I'm not even saying those things are weak in their intended uses, they just don't affect the core strength of hooks. The only thing that would is Deliverance, but that's been in the game for years and hasn't been substantially changed in a long time- I think the last time it even got indirect changes was the basekit BT making safe unhooks more reliable? That was three years ago now, almost.
Even with the increased timer, the thing you're describing is opportunity for the killer. If they're stuck on gens, go get more pressure by getting another down. If you can do that - and of course it's an if, this is a game, victory isn't guaranteed - then you have the advantage, not the survivors.
Every time someone tries to talk about hooks being weaker, they never even acknowledge what it is hooks give you, it's always conversations about perks or basekit mechanics like the AFC system/increased hook timers.
The point was each of those incremental nerfs continued to slowly and surely eat away the edge of hooking over slugging, and now we've reached the axis point where slugging is showing to be the smarter, more efficient play mathematically. So while they don't seem to a major problem individual, their cumulative affect has finally become significantly noticeable.
No, hooking was nerfed for killers outside of even the perks. The 20 second increase on hook states for example. And other perks have enabled pickup saves to be even easier such as Background player. Flashlights can still be avoided with looking at walls but Background Player + Flashbang enables survivors to run up, drop a flashbang in the killer model, making it unavoidable, in addition to all the other anti-hook plays survivors have at their disposal.
Again, each of these individual changes did not shift the meta, it's that their cumulative effect has now shifted the meta.
Also your scenario doesn't work. One hook and chasing one survivor is only two engage and not doing generators. Meanwhile one slugged and one in chase requires another survivor to first locate the downed survivor, then get them up, which with knockout becomes more difficult, thus engaging three survivors for longer than hooking.
People have already done the math in the thread already, so I won't belabor the point.
Honestly I don't think my complaint is much lack of rewards for hooking, it's that those rewards can be short-circuited so easy by just one other survivor utilizing a flashlight, flashbang, sabotage, or body block. If I was able to do the 2v8 thing and put survivors on hooks instantly I think you'd find most killers would accept that.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883720#Comment_3883720
You can't seriously be contending that Grim Embrace was nerfed into the ground after getting a tiny two second nerf to one of its effects?
Grim and Pain Res are still some of the strongest killer perks in the game after their nerfs, and DMS was arguably improved after its rework. The only hook perk that really was significantly nerfed even remotely recently is Pop, and I don't really buy that a single perk getting weaker suddenly means that hooking isn't worth it anymore.
What if you never used that perk, or any hook-related slowdown perks? Hooking's been pretty good for you in that regard this whole time, and nothing's changed there.
If it was such a minor nerf then why was it needed in the first place? Thanks for making the point for me.
"Grim and Pain Res are still some of the strongest killer perks in the game"
Nope, that would be knockout and Mindbreaker now. Because the perks you mentioned have been nerfed so heavily and hooking is a time consuming gamble with the possibility of no payoff, and don't even get me started on terrible scourge hook placement. First pain res was reduced to 4 charges max, then it's once per survivor, now it's down from 25 to 20%. Again, survivors did this to themselves with incessant whining about slowdown.
"What if you never used that perk, or any hook-related slowdown perks? Hooking's been pretty good for you in that regard this whole time, and nothing's changed there."
Hooking has not only been nerfed for killers, it's been BUFFED for survivors.
Dead Hard, Deliverance, DS, not to mention the increased timer on hook states means less pressure on survivors to be altruistic, increasing further generator rush. Of course even if you get someone on death hook someone can bring shoulder the burden and negate the danger.
Anti-tunnel perks can be used offensively, meaning not only is hooking worse for killers, it's downright BENEFICIAL for survivors to get hooked at least once.
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OR (And just hear me out here).
We could make hooking WORTH something again, and maybe killers would start doing it again.
Survivors have no one to blame but themselves for the current meta. Whining about Pain Resonance, Pop Goes the Weasel, Grim Embrace, and Dead Man's Switch cause all those perks were nerfed into the ground. The result is the hassle of getting to a hook (let alone a scourge hook) when survivors can still flashlight save, flashbang save, body block, or sabotage hooks (seriously, make scourge hooks unable to be sabotaged at least) is essentially a negative expected value (-EV, a poker term) for the killer.
Also, so many second chance perks now actually require hooking, such as dead hard and of course DS has required it for years. Not to mention unhooked survivors with base kit borrowed time often use it offensively to body block killers.
The result is hooking has become pointless for killers in terms of pressure and slowdown. Slugging provides more of both.
That said, I think the amount of killers who are slugging and leaving to bleed out intentionally is actually pretty low as there's no benefit outside of spite. In most games I will hook the first downed survivor and slug everyone else until I've hooked that survivor three times (or everyone else does end up downed) then I will hook the rest as soon as possible.
You want slugging to end? All you have to do is MHGA (Make Hooking Great Again)
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@BioX said:
clever, but that does not take way the fact that Freddy is just super boring and basic and everyone plays him the same: Tinkerer, Pop, Ruin and something else.
So I tend to make sure I dont participate in those games for long.....oh I mean I try my very best to support my team!
With that perk setup yeah he's gonna be super boring. I like spicing it up with the machine gun glove hand build. BBQ/PGTW/Brutal Strength/STBFL. By limiting it to only PGTW for slowdown I force myself to do chases and do them fast and make sure to hit the priority generator. The Brutal and STBFL make it a lot more kinetic and fun imho.
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@Jasix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2315172#Comment_2315172
My post was meant at the OP - guess I should have quoted them.....
It's all good, just felt like you were firing at everyone is all. No harm no foul.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2315173#Comment_2315173
That is true, but I was actually thinking about its old version:
Yeah my bad, I misread the part where he was referencing old Freddy.
Ironically new blue dress would still be effective against this since you would be giving the killer your aura every time you missed a skill check lol.
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In a game where a killer has a tentacle and literally beats down women with it the word hentai is censored.
Good joke.
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@GeneralV said:
Laughs in Blue Dress.
Eh, not many other options since Jump Rope and Swing Chains are useless, you have a point.
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@Jasix said:
Yes because grouping TTVs into a group and stating that they all do a certain thing is a productive and objective thing... oh wait.. no its not.
My experience is that streamers (Both TTV and YT) tend to be less "toxic" and just trying to be fun and entertaining. I do find that I get a lot more non-streamers than streamers who come into my chat who are homophobic and racist - probably because I have end game chat disabled and they wanna show off their SDE to an audience
When I play/stream killer I usually get 2-3 non-streamers who come in and make bigoted statements and very rarely get a fellow streamer who does this. When I play survivor it is usually only 0-1 killers who come in to try and be racist homophobes and I don't think I have ever had a killer streamer come in and be an idiot in my chat. If I had to guess - 95% of my bans in my channel are non-streamers from DBD, a few (2-3) are streamers, and the other 4.75% are bots.
But please continue with your broad generalizations regarding a small group of individuals - it's very enlightening.
I mean, did you read the vast majority of respondents to this thread who have stated that the majority of streamers are usually pretty chill? Just cause the OP is being judgmental it feels like you're castigating everyone.
From my own experience every TTV I have ever gone against (play killer almost exclusively so never against a TTV killer) has been chill until this evening actually. Vast majority of the time, and especially when I'm chilling at R1 waiting on rank reset, I just get everyone to death hook and then let people finish generators and leave, I explain after it's more BP for everyone and there's really no benefit to ruthless or merciless at R1. Most streamers are very appreciative and I often watch the replays, follow, let them know who I was, and wish them GL in the fog. Had one tonight who ruined that streak but it is what it is.
TL:DR Streamers are people, you'll find some douchenozzles but most are good peeps.
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Without knowing what killers you play it's hard to offer specific advice, so I'll try to keep it generic.
If playing a setup killer that needs time to setup portals/traps/etc. Corrupt Intervention is almost mandatory. You want time to setup your web so making sure they have to walk into it is optimal.
Regarding the Pop vs. Ruin/Undying debate. Ruin/Undying is better when you're a killer with less map mobility. If you're playing Freddy, and you run Ruin/Undying, on a killer who can literally teleport to generators, you're doing it wrong. Same with Hillbilly, Demogorgon, Nurse, basically anyone with high speed map movement. For more standard run and chase M1 killer Ruin/Undying usually keeps you in the game longer while you focus on chases.
As you mentioned, Sloppy Butcher can help, but sometimes it's a double edged sword, you WANT survivors to heal instead of doing generators and making it take longer may cause some of them to just say screw it. For a killer like Legion or Plague this makes your power useless and you just become an M1 killer (though plague does get at least one cleanse per match now, so that's nice).
Lethal Pursuer is an underrated perk, getting into a chase immediately upon game start and just running into the area with 3-4 survivors will cause good early disruption. I'm aware this perk lasts 9 seconds of an entire match but that's a small price to pay to not have that awkward 30-60 seconds of walking around looking for someone only to hear that damn generator complete sound.
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Honestly that type of thing I've seen happen at anytime of the day. People will accuse killers of tunneling for anything. Actually it's tunneling if you ever hook a survivor twice lol.
That all said late night the ranking system has to cast a wider net to fill games so you'll end up with more mixed bags so prepare for more rainbow games.
Since I'm at R1 most of the time anyway I just play the "Get everyone to death hook then just start letting people go game". I still come away with around 8 hooks and about 25k BP while the survivors all make between 20-25k.
It's always funny when I down someone for the third time, only to pick them up, bring them to a gen, let them wiggle off, then hit the generator showing I want them to do it. They get so confused lol.
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What type of mods are you talking about?
If you're talking texture mods for perks, killer/survivor portraits, etc. that stuff is fine and BHVR has even said as much.
If you're talking something to do with gameplay.....not so much.
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@Doziano said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/261492/why-is-gen-rushing-so-toxic
It's not toxic, it's just one side not understanding the objectives of the other one. It's a tactic that facilitates a win for the survivor team that can be countered by the killer. In the same way that tunneling and camping facilitates the game for the killer and yet it can be countered by the survivors if they work together. In the end, people just find all of these things toxic because the two sides have very distinctive objectives and it's just hard to see when they are doing something effective
For a lot of killers it can't be countered.
Some of this is due to spawn placements. Survivors often spawn on the other side of the map from the killer, usually within a few meters of a generator. If 2-3 survivors rush a generator they spawned on it's usually completed by the time the killer has gotten to it or completed the first chase. This now puts the survivors at 20% of their objective complete, while the killer is at only 8.3% of their objective (assuming their objective is 12 hooks). Let's say the killer gets two hooks while the second generator is completed, even with the killer doubling his efficiency rate the survivors are at 40% while the killer is at 25%. This would also assume only one generator is getting worked on at a time which is rarely the case, as survivors know if someone is being chased the killer can't do a whole lot to anyone else currently.
This is why a perk like Corrupt Intervention went from "something setup and area control killers use" to "mandatory meta perk for every killer all the time no matter what" status (being somewhat hyperbolic, but you get the point).
I agree it's not toxic, hell I don't even think it's survivors fault, and I really don't have much of a solution. Making generator times longer just makes the game boring for those holding M1. Some people have suggested adding an objective to opening the gates like securing a fuse or something but I don't know if that would alleviate the problem either, particularly if it could be located beforehand.
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@gendoss said:
I like just having only 1 person be able to escape with a key, like the hatch would close right after one is used.
This would be enough, it's not about one person escaping through the hatch, it's when whole teams get to do it off of one key because they are on comms and go "Ready, now" and suddenly four escape symbols immediately appear.
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The map's been disabled on all platforms due to bug issues that apparently didn't show up on the PTB but came to light on live servers. It was up for about an hour on launch day when it was then taken out of the rotation. They are bringing it back slowly into the natural rotation but you cannot use an offering for it at this time.
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OP's clearly running into certain meme builds for the first time and thinks they're OP. That's funny.
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Honestly at your rank you need to stop worrying about ranks, pipping, or anything else, just focus on getting as much BP as you can to level your killers up and unlock perk slots and perks.
Just focus on learning each killer you want to play, how their power works, what's the best time to use it, what tiles do they excel on, what tiles do they have trouble on. Consult killer guides on youtube, there's also guides on how to mindgame at loops as well.
Right now your only focus should be on playing and getting better. Winning and losing isn't that important in a game that rank resets every month.
Every R1 killer started where you are, if you haven't yet, buy BBQ and Chili off the Shrine of Secrets if you can, it's a great perk and will help with the BP grind.
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As killer the worst three are:
- Haddonfield, not even close, terrible layout, almost impossible to effectively patrol generators, most chases severely favor survivors due to window vaults. If there was ever a map that could use some breakable walls to make it less BS this would be the place.
- Midwich Elementary School. Now for the total opposite side of the spectrum, now I get to spend the first 5 mins of the game acting like the effing kool-aid man smashing through enough walls to give myself access between floors and into most rooms. I think this one is hated by survivors as well but generators are in such secure places it just becomes infuriating.
- The Game. The game is what happens when you put in no less than 15 safe pallets on a map. It's misery for any killer that has to deal with pallets, though at least it's easier to navigate than Midwich.
- Honorable Mention: Dead Dog Saloon. Used to be a GREAT killer map, until someone went so hard copy and pasting breakable walls everywhere that I now have to spend the first five mins doing the kool-aid man just like Midwich.
As Survivor the worst three are:
- Hawkins, and like Haddonfield it's not even close, most pallets are not safe unless the killer literally doesn't break any and you can create a loop out of multiple dropped pallets, easy to navigate with 5/7 generators on the same floor most times.
- Shelter Woods. Very few pallets, really open, lot of opportunities to get caught with not much else to help you.
- Midwich. Had to put this on both lists, pain in the ass to navigate and your mobility is kind of dependent on how many walls get broken. Not fun for either side.
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He's functional, just a B tier killer basically.
Biggest issue is his power requires you landing strikes to contaminate just to be able to do anything with it, one hit to contaminate, and then two more to injure and down, or use those fists you got. Giving survivors a speed boost on contaminate isn't helping, and his early game is atrocious since the tentacle can't break pallets and it's range is only 5M. Getting to T3 feels like a booby prize when all you get is 1M of extra range. He has no map pressure outside of two random zombies that either get stuck on terrain or couldn't hit a survivor running right past them.
I still think he's fun to play and I know people are having a blast on him, but he's a perfectly mediocre killer.
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DBD obviously has a niche, and so does Identity V.
I get that the Manga/Anime crowd are some of the most ravenous fans in the world, but DBD isn't Manga/Anime, it's horror. Being a horror game means going for actual horror licenses that make sense with the game's aesthetics.
It seems silly to worry about DBD licenses when they just scored arguably the largest horror license in gaming.
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@LylakLavender said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2304054#Comment_2304054
Thanks Which killer has Pop goes the weasel
My Bad:
Corrupt Intervention = Plague Teachable.
Pop Goes the Weasel = Clown Teachable.
BBQ and Chili = Cannibal Teachable (and on the shrine of secrets right now)
Save the Best for Last = Michael Myers Teachable.
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@LylakLavender said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2303913#Comment_2303913
I kept getting the teleport creator mixed up with his attack. It was funny to say the least. I was a baby demogorgon😂
As someone who play Demogorgon regular at red ranks, I'll impart what I can.
Portal Strategy:
There's two schools of though on this, portal next to generators for map pressure, or portals slightly away from generators for surprise attacks, I'm in the latter group. Try to place a portal behind a rock or wall near a generator since you get undetectable emerging from a portal and can land a lot of cheeky first hits this way. It also lessens the chances of survivors finding and sealing up your portals which keeps your map pressure as good as it can be.
Shred Strategy:
Shred works best in loops when the survivor can't see you charging it, when you charge shred the survivor can see you drop your hands into position and Demogorgon opens it's mouth (I guess?) so they can get ready to dodge. If you're coming around a corner it's hard to see it coming.
Best time for this is when you're running a Double L or T-Wall and you can charge as you come around the corner to spring as the survivor goes for a window. Another good time is when they are running for a pallet and aren't looking behind them.
Perk Recommendations:
Demogorgon needs setup time for portals, so corrupt intervention when starting out is a godsend. With his map pressure, he can also make good use out of both BBQ and Chili for Location and Pop Goes the Weasel for Generator Regression. You don't really need brutal strength or bamboozle since Demogorgon can handle most loops pretty well but one perk that's GREAT on him is Save the Best for Last. As Demogorgon can shred the obsession instead of M1, you can keep 8 stacks pretty much the whole game.
There's a lot more to it than this but hopefully these few down and dirty tips can help, best of luck!
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2290285#Comment_2290285
Homestly, the only real gameplay difference I've noticed is the amount of Nemesis's with NOED, which is just sad for multiple reasons.
It's actually not a shocking development considering how bad his endgame is if people are smart and save vaccines until the end. He's never going to be able to land three hits on a survivor in a chase without both exit gates being powered. NOED solves that problem for him.
Not saying I'm doing it. I was lucky as hell in Bloodweb and run BBQ and Chili, then either Undying/Ruin or PGTW/TT, and finally either STBFL or Sloppy Butcher (either machine gun first or mangled slowdown fist).
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2289540#Comment_2289540
I don't play Freddy so idk if that's how it's always been, thought I'd mention it in my comment tho
With Freddy a lot of people think the snares aren't working when in fact the issue is the survivor is awake.
The less discussed nerf to Freddy (the add-on nerfs got most of the publicity) was that using an alarm clock now grants awake status regardless of taking a hit for 30 secs. Because of that, I know when I was playing Freddy I was very confused that survivors I had hit were not being snared and I realized it's cause the hit didn't put them back in the dream like normal.
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@van9684 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2290083#Comment_2290083
It’s funny how it’s always the survivors fault on here. Killer plays horrible, it’s survivors fault as they shouldn’t play the game lol. 🤦♂️
If a killer is camping, and you're trying to unhook a survivor, then yes you are playing incorrectly, though maybe not through fault of your own.
Some of it is dumb survivors, some of it is that solo queue doesn't allow for too much to counter this gameplay.
As a killer main, I think the answer is to make kindred baseline for survivors in solo queue. Being able to see killers camping would ensure that generators get completed to punish this action.
As far as Nemesis tunneling, a big issue is the fault in his kit, it's easier to down a survivor already infected, and applying infections is a pain and slows him down, particularly early game when the whip kinda sucks. 4 vaccines means he needs to land 8 whips just to make his power damaging on all four survivors and chew through the vaccines.
The other issue is that contamination does literally nothing to survivors except make them able to be damaged from the tentacle. This means most players don't bother vaccinating until the endgame and basically make it impossible for Nemesis to conduct any level of late game comeback, since he's back on infection duty.
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There's a few reasons.
1) A LOT of people are playing Nemesis, and his early game is easily when he's at his weakest. Your tentacle is borderline useless, no one is infected yet, etc. Corrupt forces survivors into a smaller space and prevents early gen rush right where they spawn. If you combine it with lethal pursuer you can disrupt most of the team for at least a short time.
2) Corrupt has always been good with area control killers like Hag and Trapper, and I like using it on Demogorgon as well. Any killer that requires setup (Beartraps, Hag Traps, Demogorgon Portals) likes the perk as it helps get some breathing space to get setup before gens start flying.
3) Unlike Ruin or Pop, Corrupt works no matter what you do at the start of the match. Pop requires downing someone and ruin often gets cleansed once people know to look out for it.
@ShinobuSK said:
Theres a corrupt challenge in last archive level
Apparently this is a thing too.
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@Zokenay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2288961#Comment_2288961
If they had declined it for that reason the backlash would have been massive.
The design is fine, and they can bring an OG version later on, also it would have been weird to bring OG Nemesis while Lean and Jill (also adding Claire and sorta Chris) having their Remake designs.
Btw how does OG Nemesis work differently? both version would run and slam you to the ground
Besides the backlash for RE3 Remake had more to do with the game's poor reception rather than Nemesis design, which a lot of people actually liked.
I don't understand that remake design of him, he looks like he's a giant homeless person covered in trash bags. At least original Nemesis had a badass trench coat.
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When I'm in farming mode at rank 1 I deliberately try not to kill anyone. Instead, I challenge myself to find each survivor and put them on death hook, then I just back off, let them finish generators and heal and such, and even stand under pallets for stuns and the like. At least initially after the eighth hook they run away but when I catch up and don't hit them and motion for them to follow they seem to get the idea pretty quickly.
As long as I'm getting around 6-8 hooks I can usually secure a Brutal Killer to maintain the status quo, and everyone gets some extra BP for the efforts.
Usually when survivors get into after-game they will ask what happened and I explain what I'm doing and they're usually very appreciative. I've had streamers have a really nice positive reaction to it as well which is always nice to see.
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Original Nemesis came out on the PS1, in the cutscenes he's at least decent looking but in game he's literally a giant ball of pixels compared to today.
I prefer Nemesis original design personally (why does the remake look like he's covered in trash bags?) but as others have said it's got to be easier to port his design over from the remake at least initially.
I'm guessing they may do a Mr. X or original Nemesis skin the same way they did the Claire and Chris Redfield cosmetics for Jill and Leon.
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286917#Comment_2286917
I entirely agree with that, there only the best maps FOR killer. Dead Dawg has that super powerful loop around the whole building, yet people say that that place is likely the best killer map.
When it was first released it really was one of the most killer-sided maps due to how small and compact it was, making generator patrols quite easy. There wasn't nearly the amount of breakable walls it has now, which basically if you choose not to break them it becomes as bad as Midwich does if you don't go around breaking walls.
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@justcherry84 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286958#Comment_2286958
Last tune I checked if you want any survivors perks to be teachable you have to level them up and unlock them. They arent just accessible
(sigh)
Ok try to follow with me.
Let's say you want an optimal loadout for survivor perks, let's say Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, and Adrenaline, pretty standard very optimal build. This would require leveling at most 5 survivors. Bill, David, Laurie, Meg, and whoever your "main" is that you're going to put all them onto. Hell you could cut this down to 4 levels if you decide to main one of the four. At this point you are done because survivors literally all have the same stats and access to the same perks, so there's nothing left to do unless you want to play more survivors for strictly cosmetic reasons. If a new survivor comes out that has a perk you want, you level them up, unlock the teachable, immediately switch to the main to get that perk, and done.
Now let's flip this on the killer side. Let's say I want a relatively standard build of BBQ and Chili, Hex: Ruin, Hex: Undying, and Corrupt Intervention. First I'm going to have to level the 4 killers to get the teachables (Leatherface, Hag, Blight, and Plague) ok cool, except now I have to grind through bloodwebs until I get those four perks ON EVERY KILLER I PLAN TO PLAY.
Now you may be thinking "But kwikwitted you handsome devil you, you only need to main one killer". In a way that could be true, except it likely doesn't happen because of two reasons, Solo vs. SWF and the BHVR devs. Depending on balancing decisions, it's not uncommon to see killers go from A tier to C tier very quickly (just ask the Hillbilly) meaning that a backup killer at minimum is almost mandatory. So at a bare minimum I'm doing twice the leveling to keep two killers ready to go.
And then we've got perk nerfs that have to be accounted for, or new killers that come in that we want to play, or new killers we don't want to play but have absolutely amazing teachables, we're doing that re-grind on every single killer we plan to play as they all have different powers, abilities and playstyles.
Do you understand now?
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@Dodgingbears said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286380#Comment_2286380
His power is strong at tier 3... if you think its detrimental that is because you miss alot.
The only change from T2 to T3 is 1M additional range, that's it.
The detrimental portion is the part where has to land a courtesy hit before actually doing damage, not to mention upon infection they get a speed boost and we go into power recovery animation.
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"At the rate of bloodpoints killers are gearning up and leveling waaay quicker than survivors which ultimately throws the game off balance."
LOL no.
That's now how anything works.
Each survivor is literally a pallet swap, all have the same abilities and stats. Learn the teachables you want then just level a main survivor and boom, you're done.
Killers have to level up optimal perk layouts on EVERY killer that they plan on playing. The grind is extensive and way longer.
Also this has little to do with balance, maybe this week and next week while people grind perks for their new survivor mains it's a minor issue but that's not going to last long as people get what they want out of their bloodwebs.
The solution is pretty simple, want the same BP generation as killers? Play killer. Be good for you to see it through their eyes too.
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Ironically that would actually nerf killers more than survivors, considering survivors could still crouch in the corn and be undetected, while killers have no such ability.
Though I guess they would become Ghostface's favorite maps.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
You realise this happens to survivors too? We aren’t jumping for joy when we get spawned into Hawkins or Dead Dawg, it’s just the game right now.
Also, the game is not survivor sided. SWF are 100% stronger than killers, no denying that. But killers are stronger than solo queue survivors, especially below red rank. If the game made killers stronger as a whole, lower ranks would be elo hell.
Hawkins yes, and maybe original dead dog, but now survivors send me there intentionally because in order to have a chance I have to pretend I'm the Kool-aid man for the first five minutes to make the loops even remotely able to be ended.
The only true killer sided maps at this point are:
Hawkins
Shelter Woods
The Game Maybe depending on the Killer.
Meanwhile every killer groans when we see.
Any McMillan Estate map
Any Autohaven Map
Any Coldwind Map
Midwich (I'll concede I think survivors hate this one almost as much as killers do)
Lampkin Lane
Badham Pre-School
The game is survivor sided if we're talking similar ranked killers and survivors. 4 red rank survivors, even in solo queue, are at an advantage against a red rank killer.
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@Micheal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286526#Comment_2286526
Oh I see then just get rid of speed boost
Cannot honestly tell if trolling or seriously didn't read the post you responded to.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/73HGCQBWD5T9/image.png
This should explain a lot to everyone in this thread.
It kinda does and it kinda doesn't.
For example, I play Freddy sporadically, but mainly have stuck to Legion and Demigorgon as my mains. However, it doesn't matter which killer I play right now, I am getting baby survivors left and right. Honestly it's not even fair right now, I mean we're talking survivors that can't loop. I'm not talking can't run a jungle gym, they literally drop pallets and hold W. I find myself deliberately dragging games out so we can all get some BP before I murder them all.
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I have to respectfully disagree, as the MMR has been literally all over the place for me all day and yesterday.
There's no rhyme or reason to it. I'm Rank 1 as killer, maining Freddy/Demogorgon/Legion primarily while playing other killers occasionally, playing any of my mains over this last day has been pretty much game after game of complete baby survivors. I literally just finished a game on Temple of Purgation where not one of the survivors even knew how to loop, I'm not talking didn't understand how to perfectly run a jungle gym, I mean didn't know how to run around a pallet loop at all. Or even better I had a Claudette keep dropping pallets in the wrong direction. There was one point in the game where I had three of them on hook WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING IT because I was just going from chase to chase and ending them that quickly. I had to literally stop, let them reset, get a couple generators done, then finish the game so everyone could get some BP.
BHVR has gone from sending me against people appropriate to my rank every game to demoting me to survivor babysitter otherwise I end games in 2 minutes with a brutal killer and minimal BP earnings.
I've asked the survivors I've gone against today what it's been like and they all say the same thing, they've been getting hammered by red rank killers all day, even people clearly playing their mains.
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@Terra92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1196082#Comment_1196082
I don't play to be the most efficient, I play for fun. Meaning I don't run meta perks. If I lose I lose, I'm not worried about my rank or hold it close to my belt. I also don't come to major judgments about perks until after I've used them for a while. I just got For the People maybe two weeks ago, I've been trying it out, no one else seems to use it. I like it so far, maybe my mind will change in a week or two.
I used to think Kindred was god awful useless. But then I realized I could see where the Killer is headed to once he hooks someone. So unlike Spine Chill, which lets me know within a certain distance, I can know if I need to dip immediately, if they have BBQ, or if I cab make a beeline towards the hooked person once my gen is complete.
Similarly, I'm testing and finding the downsides to For the People are worth it to save 16 seconds of time. I might get hooked, but that's usually how obsession perks work, high risk, high reward. I use We'll Make It a lot and although I like it, the utility of For the People is fantastic and I wouldn't overlook it, ever.
And no, I don't hide for 90 seconds, my current build lets me continue to do gens, find totems, and avoid getting caught without leaving a trail for the killer to follow. And even while I don't like the chase all that much, I've greatly improved and I'm confident I can manage a chase in several situations.
That's not the argument you were making on the previous post, now you're moving the goalposts.
"I think you don't realize how useless this perk is compared to significantly better options."
This was your quote which I responded to, which was an objective reasoning on why for the people is a pretty bad perk as it actively punishes the player for using it for 90 seconds to save 16 seconds on a heal. It also all but requires Iron will to mask the injured sounds if you intend to play a stealth playstyle and aren't planning to heal right away.
Now your response is "I don't play to be the most efficient, I play for fun." That's not the same argument. I could care less what perks you want to run, you're free to do whatever you want. You do you buddy, the world is your oyster, but that's the not the response you were making last post. I was responding to you accusing me of not knowing how "useful" the perk is.
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I don't mind bait threads, I mind low quality lazy bait threads.
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@Terra92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1194667#Comment_1194667
Actually I play pretty stealthy usually. I'm not big on chases so I'm usually looking for hex totems, other injured survivors, etc. But when someone needs a fast heal because the killer is patrolling close by, it's better to save 16 seconds and let me and my teammates get as much distance than to scramble heals.
I know you're just posting a meme but it just looks like you don't know how useful the perk actually is.
I play killer and very little survivor, so I don't really have a dog in the fight, but from what I've seen of people using this perk, it's awful.
Saving 16 seconds and in return you are unable to be healed for 90 seconds.
And even after those 90 seconds you're going to still need to be healed, so that 16 seconds just got pushed to a later time.
Also what is your plan after going broken? To literally hide for 90 seconds? Your killer will thank you for the breathing room I assure you. If you decide to work on a generator you can be found, which means now you're only one hit from being hooked.
I think you don't realize how useless this perk is compared to significantly better options.
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A picture of Jeff in a more festive attire.
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@Jakojo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1195461#Comment_1195461
I think you're misunderstanding my comment. I don't think it's anyone's objective to entertain anyone, that's the point of the game, to entertain. What I am saying as that the state of the game itself is becoming anti-fun. People are only having fun at other peoples expense and that's not okay, it's driving players away from the game. Really, a lot of it has to do with the actual game and not just the community (although that obviously plays a major role).
EDIT: I can't think of the last time everyone in a lobby was satisfied with the outcome of the game, win or lose. And for the most part I agree, a lot of the in-game mechanics are kinda BS (pipping/rank etc.)
The point of a PVP game is competition, the entertainment comes from competing against other players and attempting to win. And your opinion on the state of the game as "anti-fun" is just that, your opinion. Maybe this game is no longer for you. As far as "having fun at other peoples expense" that's a really broad term and you don't specify it at all.
As a killer if I down a survivor is that having fun at their expense or is that just playing the game and attempting to complete my objective?
If a survivor gets a flashlight save is that having fun at the killer's expense or is that just playing the game and attempting to save their teammate so they can both complete their objective?
Your post makes no sense because you don't specify any issues you claim to have a problem with, you just spout out some nebulous "anti-fun" moralizing and pretend you said something profound.
A PVP game is by it's very nature going to have winners and losers. No PVP game is going to have all satisfied parties at the end of game. Even a draw won't create that outcome since then everyone just feels like they wasted their time.
This is the inherent difference between PVP and a PVE game where players only work in cooperative fashion to down an AI opponent together.
You're asking a game based on competition between players to somehow satisfy both sides which will not happen.
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The only thing the wraith needs is to make the bone clapper addon baseline. The idea that his reappearance ding should be directional without addons is just moronic as it allows survivors to instantly run the other direction. Give him that and the ability to equip two addons without having to reserve a slot for bone clapper and he's easily A tier tomorrow.
As far as viability, I play plenty of wraith, he is quite viable even at Rank 1. His increased movement speeds while cloaked gives him better map pressure than many killers and also allow him to use pop goes the weasel more optimally than most killers. His stealth allows him sneak up on survivors for easy first hits and he punishes healing with nurse's calling better than anyone due to being able to get right on top of someone healing and then uncloak.
The wraith also sports one of the best kits for many perk combinations. He can run anti-healing with sloppy butcher and nurse's calling and play hit and run wraith. He can go full machine gun chaser with STBFL and PWYF by using his cloak to keep ending chases on the obsessions to build up speed tickets and then chase down other survivors insanely quickly with faster recovery from STBFL.
I don't understand how perks justify a rework, considering it's not like you're forced to use them. Wraith's perks suck but that's not why anyone is playing him anyway. Leatherface has one of the best perks in the game and is still a terrible killer.
In his current state Wraith is middle of the pack, he's not in the core four "meta" killers category of Nurse, Billy, Freddy, and Spirit, and he's probably not in the group with Oni, Ghostface, and Huntress, but he's right behind that group.
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@Jakojo said:
It's to make sure the other side has as little fun as possible. This is what the game has become now.
I didn't realize any PVP game's objective was to entertain the other side and not win the game.
Ironically as killer I have to basically entertain survivors enough otherwise I don't pip. If I end the game too quickly, don't get enough chases, hits, or hooks then I don't pip.
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I have never seen anything positive come out of post-game chat. Ever.
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@self_healer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1194573#Comment_1194573
Not to mention no mither it makes sense cause David refuses to lose a fight by UT again you need basic healing to get your self from a dying state to injured but not to mention the perk allows multiple times?! What's David crippled super man
No mither also keeps you permanently in the broken status? The tradeoff is you are injured permanently but can pick yourself up. Also how many no mither runners do you see survive? That's what I thought.
Oh and please don't do some realism argument, in a game where serial killers hunt down survivors to kill them repeatedly so some entity emotions vampire can sustain itself isn't big on realism.