Kwikwitted
Kwikwitted
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@self_healer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1194573#Comment_1194573
Ok first of all hilarious but I mean even just once like unbreakable it would just make sense if you could heal your self up off the ground with self care because you heal your self unbreakable I get cause bill is a cranky old man who doesn't take #########
Basically if they allowed you to heal yourself off the ground killers would no longer be able to slug even tactically, taking away one of the last few things they have to slow the game down. The whole reason for slugging is to pull someone else off a generator to get the downed survivor. Take this away and killers really won't have much left to stop generator progression. You think camping and tunneling is bad now? Wait until killers can't even slug anymore.
Forcing killers to basically pick up survivors or undo the entire work of the chase also is a problem if the down happened anywhere near a loop as survivors would just be able to hover around the downed survivor and as long as they crawled to a pallet they would be able to make the killer either chase their friend so they can get up on their own, or try the risky pickup and get a pallet dropped on them.
Unbreakable as a perk is a one-time use as it's supposed to help if a game is really in the desperation mode, where everyone or 3/4's of the team is slugged and the killer is chasing the last person.
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Survivor: Spine Chill. Nullifies stealth killers, provides great use even in games when you aren't running a stealth playstyle.
Killer: Sloppy Butcher. I know many are voting for whispers and that's valid, I'm just terrible at using it. All killers can get use out of sloppy due to every killer being able to M1. Being able to slow down healing significantly gives you ample breathing room to continue to snowball and push games into your favor.
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I tend to take the "sic pacis parabellum" approach.
I tend to leave twitch open and I check names before a game lobby finishes. If I see a streamer in clear SWF voice comms or I get the sense the group is going to be an SWF or is looking to bully, I give them all they can handle. Whip out Freddy, put on his most oppressive addons and go to town. No Mori's on principal but everything else is fair game? Paint Brush, Swing Chains, Jump Rope, any of it is permitted at that point.
Once the game starts I'll gauge if I really need to go full ham or not, if they are clearly not great loopers, and the game is in my favor tremendously such as one dead and three on death hook inside of 2 generators then I will back off, let them get some more points with pallets, generators, etc. And then mow them all down at the end. They get some points, everyone's happy, gg wp.
If they are in fact an SWF I will just go full force since I'll probably need too. Thankfully at that point I'm prepared so it's not an insurmountable task.
Sometimes they just DC or die on first hook since they realize they're not going to be able to bully as they would a normal killer so game's end quickly and we move onto the next.
TL:DR: There's nothing wrong with whipping out a strong killer if you think you're going to be up against it.
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Overall Pop Goes the Weasel is superior to reworked Hex: Ruin.
Pop Goes the Weasel is more reliable (read: not a hex totem), has more targeted regression, allows you to stall out a priority generator longer.
Doesn't mean Hex: Ruin can't be a good perk.
Ruin works best on killers with tons of map mobility who can chase survivors off generators constantly. Killers like Freddy and Hillbilly for example.
Pop works best on just about everybody else,
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I feel this is how every other survivor is looking at you when you try to heal them with for the people.
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Man there is nothing worse than unbreadable. I mean I play Bubba and get the survivors all breaded up and ready for the deep fryer and then bam, unbreadable triggers and undoes all my hard work.
Oh and to your request, no, survivors have enough second chance perks as it is.
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@yobuddd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1194562#Comment_1194562
Whoops. I’m thinking Carrie
Clearly the next character should be Carrie Driving Christine
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Okay now that we've got that out of the way, let's assume your posing a serious point.
Yes, there were many times where Ruin was found quite quickly. One of the biggest gripes with the perk was that totem spawns were random and sometimes you didn't even get time to get to your totem before it was destroyed. However that was usually still time where survivors were actively looking for Ruin and not doing generators.
The goal was not for ruin to remain the whole game, if it lasted 90 seconds that was considered more than enough and usually it did last that long. Ruin also usually forced survivors to go totem hunting increasing their chances of running into the killers.
If Ruin lasted through 90 seconds or 2 downs, it had done it's job.
Now I've played red ranks for a long time now, I haven't used Ruin except on setup killers in a long time. The reasoning was that red rank survivors knew how to hit great skill checks or find totems quickly. Killers at red ranks also know how to optimize their time to the best of their capability so they were less reliant on Ruin anyway. The problem is now the red rank meta is the meta for ALL ranks. And many killers are having trouble as they are still learning how to optimize patrolling, chases, etc.
The other issue is that Hex: Ruin was covering for was map problems, which have become more pronounced since it's rework. Maps like Disturbed Ward, Ormond, and Rotten fields are atrociously designed and make certain killers completely unviable. If the Ruin rework had accompanied map reworks you wouldn't hear nearly the complaining but as it stands they took away one of the key ways certain killers could be viable without giving them anything in return except an inferior substitute (corrupt intervention).
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@aregularplayer said:
Did you forget ruin used to last less than a minute?
There you were playing Wraith with 3 perks again...
Okay hang on have to post something first.
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@Nurgling7 said:
There are hardly any killers playing red ranks. Survivor ques take 5-10 minutes and killer ques are instant.
See I would buy that but then as a red rank killer I get paired up with purple and green survivors at times. It really makes no sense.
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Short Answer: They both have uses in different circumstances and context.
Long Answer: Discordance is much more of an early game detection perk while surveillance's use usually builds up during the course of a game.
Discordance is stronger in the early game as grouping up on generators is a very standard practice at the start of the game since survivors tend to spawn close together and usually close to a generator. It saves a killer a lot of wasted time. It does have continual use during the game assuming survivors group up and do generators together, but if the survivors realize the killer is running discordance then they likely will just split up and now the perk is useless.
Surveillance on the other hand can combine with certain perks incredibly well. Surveillance seems to go very well with the new Hex: Ruin as once a generator starts regressing it's highlighted, so if you chase survivors off generators you can see the minute they get back on them, allowing you to counter them by pressuring the generators they want to work on. However on it's own it requires a lot of generator kicking which if you don't have a perk to boost your regression is a lot of wasted time.
Overall I would say Discordance works better as it's own package while Surveillance works better if combined with Hex: Ruin or another regression perk that encourages lots of kicking.
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@Cheers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1194226#Comment_1194226
:O! I'll never post a thing again! :p
But then you'll never get to 2000 :(
@QuickStiQz said:
I’ve got 500 auric cells and the only 3 killers I don’t have yet are Plague, Clown, and Pig. Who do you think I should get? I play on console btw.
As others have said, can buy pig only with auric cells, can get the other two with iridescent shards.
Ironically of the three I think Plague and Clown are more valuable but that's strictly due to perks. Plague will give you corrupt intervention which is old Hex: Ruin 0.5. Best generator perk for trap and setup killers in the game. Dark Devotion is fun to play with but it's pretty meh, but infectious fright is devastating in the hands of someone like Oni, Hillbilly, or a T3 Myers as they can daisy chain insta-downs very effectively with it.
Clown also boasts some really good perks. Coulrophobia is crap unless you're running a terror radius doctor build or something, but Bamboozle is a great learning perk for lower ranked killers to let them cut off window loops easier and Pop Goes the Weasel is hands down the best generator regression perk in the game right now.
Pig doesn't have terrible perks. Make your choice is definitely the best of the bunch, an insta-down on an unhooking player every 60 seconds can be very good. Hangman's trick was setup to be the counter to the new sabotage meta but then they got scared and nerfed it into the ground again, and then surveillance is a very nice perk to track survivors and what generators they are working on. Surveillance is probably best paired with the new ruin, every time you chase survivors off generators they turn white, if they return to work on them they go yellow, can be very good.
Overall you should look to own all three eventually due to their perks but there's no rush, keep playing and enjoy the game :)
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@Zaitsev said:
Yes. Ironically, if I get hit with that stun, Ill want to actually tunnel them.
Exactly, it's kind of like I got the penalty for tunneling at this point cause I got hit with DS, I might as well get the reward for tunneling at that point too, which is one less survivor to deal with.
@KingFrost said:
No, if someone DS's me I leave them alone because I run Save the Best for Last, and hitting the obsession goes against my goals. I'll gladly eat the DS if they aren't already my obsession and I haven't hooked the obsession yet.
Very fair point, if you're running an obsession based perk then obviously that alters the thinking.
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@HollowsGrief said:
Imagine slamming gens as hard as you can and then getting punished by a perk designed to do just that; punish gen rushing.
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He's clearly the architect from the matrix.
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@Rivyn said:
Nah. Since I've been playing a lot of Trapper recently, I just set a trap at the locker and giggle.
But really, it depends how far along the match is. One or two gens pop, I'll pull them out and eat the DS. If they have a key, I'll give chase and put them in the ground if possible.
That is brilliant, I love that idea. Reminds me of putting a trap under a survivor's feet if they let you body block them and the look on their face when they realize they've done messed up.
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@GrannyonAcid said:
I just pull them out the locker. A lot of the time they don't even have DS. It's just become a common play so they get away with it. I don't try to avoid DS at all. I just eat it and move on. It doesn't really take up more then 5 seconds or so of your time. Not sure why killers walk around for a minute wasting time to avoid a stun that only usually adds a few more seconds onto a chase.
Fair point, I think I have a mental thing where if I don't get hit by DS for the whole game I can't really be accused of tunneling, since my comeback is usually "well did you get a chance to use your DS?".
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(Slow clap)
That is just brilliant on so many levels.
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I mean these changes would pretty much destroy the point of NOED, as the Expose effect is the whole thrust of the power to get multiple downs at endgame.
Take that away, and there's no reason to run down one perk for the whole game.
Honestly I'm ambivalent since I don't run the perk anyway, but this would kill the perk pretty much.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
Good suggestions so far; couple of questions:
- Sloppy Butcher does not apply when using Legion’s ability. If it does not apply with deep wounds, then does it make sense to use SB if you are primarily injuring with the ability?
- Legion’s aura reading ability is based on his/her terror radius. If an ideal play is to injure everyone with deep wounds, doesn’t it make sense that a smaller terror radius (Monitor and Abuse) is actually a handicap?
Simple answer: You always need to M1 to down as Legion, and because of this, sloppy butcher will always be applied to everyone you down.
Now Monitor and Abuse for me personally is more of a preference choice. Because I need to M1 to down, I like to run M&A with Nurse's and catch people healing, as it eliminates a chase (or at least tends to only be a short one) and saves a lot of time. Legion without his power can be looped very easily so I find this combo helps me.
Others will prefer other builds. Legion has a little of that Wraith-like quality where his addons and perks give him different playstyle.
Another thing to keep in mind, if you REALLY want to apply one of your button effects on someone, you can just Feral Frenzy and hit someone twice, you'll lose your power but it will apply mangled or broken depending on the pin.
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I personally run BBQ and Chili, Hex: Ruin, Monitor and Abuse, and Nurse's Calling, with Deface Smiley Pin for Mangled and a cooldown addon.
Legion gets injuries all day but has trouble getting downs, so the Monitor and Abuse and Nurse's calling lets him sneak up and down survivors who get caught healing nearby. BBQ and Chili for location and BP, and new Hex: Ruin because of Legion's ability to injure multiple survivors he often can chase multiple survivors off multiple generators easier than other killers. The increased regression seems to help him when he has to focus someone to down them while others are off healing.
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I like it, would make for some interesting gameplay as killers try to meet the conditions. I think it would be harder to implement on some killers rather than others.
Like Leatherface and Hillbilly it can obviously be related to getting chainsawed. But for Wraith and Nurse or other M1 based killers with no alternative to downing it would need to be based on cloak hits or blink hits I guess?
Myers already has the tombstone so he's set. Hag could be based on if the survivor trips more than 8 traps or something. Deathslinger could be if they get shot at least four or five times.
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@asparagus said:
I honestly can’t remember if the old ruin before the nerf stopped gen rush for good survivors, I’m an experienced survivor and I can’t remember cause I’ve never used ruin as killer, did old ruin stop gen rush? Or did the new ruin make it easier? Can a KILLER main tell me.
Killer main, red rank over many different months, during both old Hex: Ruin and new Hex: Ruin.
It usually caused either one of two things.
- Great survivors would still miss the occasional great skill check, and either blow the generator up in their face or get 3% regression from a good skill check.
- Even great survivors would get annoyed and start looking for the totem.
Old Hex: Ruin was never something killers expected to last longer than 1-2 minutes. It was just in place so that by the time 1-2 chases were done maybe one generator had popped. Now it's not uncommon for 2-3 generators to pop during that time.
Now you are correct that at red ranks Hex: Ruin was not used nearly as often, because as you mentioned good survivors could get around it, by hitting great skill checks or knowing totem spawn locations.
So basically it did stop the gen rush for low ranks up through about mid-purple, which by that point killers were skilled enough usually to stop needing to use it by the time they hit upper purple and red ranks, which was good timing since it wasn't much good at that point anyway. Ruin essentially served as a way for low rank killers to get their feet under them as they learned how to optimize loops, end chases, etc.
By getting rid of old Hex: Ruin BHVR essentially made the red rank meta of not using Hex: Ruin as the meta for all ranks. The problem is you have many killers who either didn't get time to learn to optimize their chasing and pressure yet or had become reliant on Hex: Ruin as a crutch. So those killers are having a lot of trouble right now. You also have the problem that killers with setup time (Myers, Trapper, Hag, etc.) needed Ruin in order to give them time to get set up before starting chases. Corrupt Intervention helps but it's not enough most of the time.
The biggest issue is the Ruin changes should have happened after a lot of the particularly terrible maps like Disturbed Ward and Ormond got reworked. These maps are basically a no go for killers with low to non-existent map mobility. If Ruin had been reworked but maps had been made more reasonable, this would allow even setup killers an easier patrol route, the ability to pressure more, and encounter survivors more often.
That would have then been followed by a nerfing of the "core four" meta killers we have at the moment. Nurse, Hillbilly, Spirit, and Freddy would have all seen nerfs because with smaller maps their abilities would probably stray over into OP territory. However as it stands these are the four killers who are viable on every map, which is why they are spammed at red ranks continually.
So basically BHVR had the right idea, Hex: Ruin probably was something that should go, but they got rid of it before fixing the problems that Hex: Ruin was covering for, namely tremendous map issues.
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It's probably the worst side effect of internet culture and online gaming is just an extension of that.
Being able to hide behind a screen name brings an anonymity that unfortunately often manifests in people saying absolutely horrible things to other people because they know there will be no repercussions for it outside of maybe a forum or game ban. The irony being these are people who probably act decently most of the time in the real world, where there are repercussions for telling someone these things to their face, usually in the form of a fist to the mouth.
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So first off, the whole point of playing Ghostface is to be able to t-bag. Do you know how happy killer players were when they brought in that feature on him?
Second your contention that "survivors can win without OP perks" only stands up because there's three other people who are loaded with perks to carry you. The killer doesn't have teammates, so yes they are going to use perks to make their job easier. I don't know why you even brought up his other perks.
- BBQ and Chili is a bad location perk with tons of counterplay (lockers, juking) and is really only used by killers for the double BP, same way you are using we're gonna live forever.
- Nurse's Calling is a perk that punishes healing in a killer's terror radius under normal circumstances, and is a commonly used perk, particularly in anti-healing builds but even on its own.
- Hex: Devour Hope can be strong assuming survivors are really dumb and don't cleanse it, but usually the minute someone gets one-shot the biggest totem hunt in the history of mankind is underway.
That's what's really puzzling about this story, if you guys had dealt with devour hope, wouldn't you have had to go around cleansing totems anyway? I'm so confused now.
"I never t-bag during a chase"
Well considering it's pretty stupid to do so considering you're still IN A CHASE that makes sense. But it's a weird caveat to make, are you saying you t-bag at other times? Maybe at exit gates perhaps?
As far as using flashlights, no one cares if you do, flashlights are hardly OP or broken. They may be annoying, but they are countered by staring at a wall. I mean.....
Now onto your perks, you know spine chill completely counters stealth killers like wraith and ghostface right? As their reduction in terror radius does nothing to stop spine chill from still lighting up when they get close. So if you wanna talk about broken perks, we could have that conversation. I don't blame this on you, run whatever perks you want, but don't pretend none of your perks aren't quite strong. It's not like you were running some meme build or something.
And then the passive aggressive ending is just the cherry on top. "So like, I'm going to whine about killers and NOED and stuff, and if you disagree with me you're just wrong and an entitled killer main. Byeeeeeee"
I honestly can't read your post now without putting some annoying valley girl voice to it, so well done on that front.
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So playing around with some different killers over this quarantine time I've found the answer is mostly a combination of the following.
- Tactical slugging.
- Mangled application (either through sloppy butcher or through addons)
- Using pop goes the weasel effectively.
Everything a killer should be doing should be designed to not only complete their objective of getting hooks, but also wasting survivors time after they are unhooked, either through putting them on the ground or at least making it take significantly longer to heal.
I personally think the best perk combination in the game right now might be sloppy butcher and nurse's calling, particularly on any killer with a lower than normal terror radius. Making survivors take longer to heal slows the game down significantly, and if they don't heal then you just saved 30 seconds if you find them since you only have to hit them once.
Add in pop goes the weasel and you can dial back generator progression quite often assuming you are ending chases moderately quickly.
I would agree killer is harder to play now as you have way less room for mistakes than you did in the days of old Hex: Ruin but it can be adapted to. Whether that's healthy for the game is debatable, but plenty of killers can still hit Rank 1 and do quite often.
@Awkward_Fiend said:
It's possible for a killer to get a 4k within the same time that survivors can pop all the gens, in fact Scott Jund was able to 4k within 3 minutes without a single gen popping, even though the survs had 4 BNPs.
However, the problem is how difficult it is to absolutely trash a killer as a SWF, meanwhile it's not hard to trash 4 solo queue survs as killer.
It's not difficult for a red rank caliber SWF to dumpster almost any killer if they are communicating and playing optimally. Being able to call out killer movements (especially if god forbid one of them has OOO) can almost eliminate the killer finding anyone, usually leaving them to chase the OOO who is usually the strongest looper in the crew.
Thankfully really good SWF teams are not nearly as common as some of my killer brethren would claim.
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@TheButcher said:
That would make less grind. The grind in the game is what keeps people addicted, and paying money until they buy all the DLC. 3 tier perks are here to stay.
What this man said. A game that only costs $20 bucks baseline is always going to have ways to keep you playing.
Just be thankful it's not lootboxes.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1192746#Comment_1192746
Yes, I know how the perk works. It’s part of his kit following a change the devs made to how Freddy’s power works.
See you claim you know how the perk works, and then continue to blame it on Freddy's kit, which is incorrect. The problem is borrowed time is attached to terror radius, of which Freddy has none in the dream world. So if the unhooking player is asleep no terror radius was read and borrowed time doesn't trigger. Same with wraith if he's cloaked.
My point was they need to fix the perk itself so it's not tied to terror radius.
Also this works against Freddy at times as well. In the dreamworld there is no terror radius, so someone with OOO can see me at literally all times. I ran into a group running four OOO just cause they wanted to meme and I didn't have unicorn block, so literally loops were impossible as they could wallhack me the whole time.
Honestly terror radius perks like BT and OOO need to be reworked to be hard distances of 32m (standard terror radius) so they work as intended at all times instead of being wonky on certain interactions.
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Only acceptable if Plague gets a mask to wear that she has to pull down when she wants to vomit attack.
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1192729#Comment_1192729
not really, they were discribing someone as an "shole" which is entirely an opinion. Something being against the law is fact, nothing to do with opinion.
But fine lets leave the littering out and lets stick to the old lady across the street analogy or hell forget even that, it does not matter, the point should be more then clear by now.
And clearly you missed my point, the developers have said that type of behavior is not bannable, or an exploit, so doing it does not betray the rules of the game. You can make a subjective claim it's not in the "spirit" of the game and you would have an argument, but I could argue that bringing a 4 man SWF is not in the "spirit" of the game either and survivors would just claim I need to "pressure gens more bro". The point is caring what other players who are your adversaries in a game think is just not that important.
Subjectivity of killer and survivor actions goes both ways. It's also often entirely situational. Will I return to the hook? If I'm close enough and not in a chase? Yes because that was a failure on the survivors parts for being too altruistic and part of being a smart killer is punishing mistakes. Do I go for the unhooked player to tunnel? Usually not but I'm not above slugging them if it's convenient, and forcing someone else to come pick them up.
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@xenotimebong said:
I think he has a bit too much in his kit. He needs tuning down a little, not much but a little. He also shouldn’t counter BT, I’ll never understand why the devs gave him that.
That's a failure on the design of borrowed time, it has nothing to do with Freddy. The problem is they tied borrowed time to terror radius, wraith and pig can get around it as well by concealing theirs.
@Kebek said:
He'll stomp potatoes but good not even SWF rank 1 survivors will still beat him as long as they don't mess up too many times. If anything other weak killers should be buffed on his level. People just complain since they hate strong killers no matter who they are and the proceed to call them boring to justify nerfs.
I would argue Freddy is in fact exactly who I pull out when I check steam profiles or twitch and see the group I'm going against is an SWF with comms. Break out the red paint brush and swing chains or jump rope and a decent map offering and go to town. Usually Freddy's chase potential and map-wide pressure are enough to at least give me a draw at worst, if not win the game outright with a 3k or 4k depending on how generous I feel (assuming they weren't toxic).
As far as Freddy's overall strength, I play him at red ranks the most out of any of the "core four" meta killers (Nurse, Spirit, Hillbilly, and Freddy). Freddy in my opinion is the best of the four.
Nurse while having the highest potential is absolutely torturous to play as. Even if you master her high learning curve her quality of life is terrible. Playing stun simulator 5000 is just not enjoyable.
Spirit has the second best chase potential but falls short on overall map pressure, she also has more trouble using pop goes the weasel optimally as she needs her power for chasing and not just for map movement.
Hillbilly has the best overall map mobility and can utilize pop goes the weasel the second most optimally, only downside is he is still a regular loopable killer who needs time in a chase to setup his insta-down.
Freddy has all the strengths of these killers (incredible map mobility, ending chases quickly) while also having the best built in generator slowdown with his addons like swing chains and jump rope. His teleportation combined with BBQ allows him to see the priority generator instantly, teleport to it, and pop it within 5 seconds of hooking someone, that is insanely good generator regression. Freddy's snares make ending loops significantly faster, as well as providing information. His fake pallets are a gimmick, and usually only used when people wanna meme.
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1192562#Comment_1192562
Well there you go, you are making excuses for the behavior already.
Throwing garbage on the street does not make you an "shole", its your opinion on that behavior and probably the general opinion but still just an opinion, a view of someone else on that person and it does and does not define them, depends on how you look at it.
Kinda coming back to your first claim "people's judgement isn't what you are" sooo yeah, they are not an "shole", you just have that opinion of them.
Same goes for your behavior in a game, you can do whatever you like, people will judge you based on that but if that has no influence on you then well fine, go forward with what you want to do.
You're conflating subjective judgement with objective law, and they are two very different things.
Almost every state and municipality has a litter law, meaning it's actually illegal to throw garbage on the street. It's not an opinion on that behavior, it's been codified by legislative bodies that this type of behavior is unacceptable.
By that same logic, the developers have said that camping and tunneling is in fact not bannable behavior, nor is it an exploit, though it is frowned upon. This is not a codified law by any legislative body, and even the private proprietors of the game do not ban the practice. "Frowned upon" is a judgement by other people but is subjective. One man's camp is another man's strategic reaction to survivors being too altruistic.
Your analogy and logic are flawed.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191993#Comment_1191993
That bad habit of wanting longer matches for both sides screw those killers!
Seriously PGTW with BBQ is really good to stall gens, Thrilling is not worth it imo.
Thrilling Tremors would be better than BBQ and Chili if BBQ didn't have the double BP attached to it.
BBQ is literally nothing more than a 4 second aura reading of survivors who are a considerable distance away. It can be completely neutralized by hiding in a locker, or juked by walking one direction for four seconds then walking the other direction. It can be countered by distortion and other aura denial perks.
Thrilling works on the entire map at once regardless of distance, blocks generators not being worked on for 6x the duration of BBQ's aura reading, and shows you exactly where to go with your pop goes the weasel based on which generators did not get blocked.
I would agree that running both is redundant, and obviously with a bloodhunt going on everyone's gonna run BBQ, but if we were talking pure location information thrilling tremors is better due to its generator blocking and lack of restrictions on distance.
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I'm so over the Mori thing at this point. I give them all up happily to remove keys.
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@Traslogan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1192031#Comment_1192031
No this is off the back of nights of infuriating games. I get non-SWF 1 in 20 games (Check steam profiles, and refuse to play with 4 private profiles), like literally the only real workaround you're offering is "buy more DLC, see if that helps". They won't even keep old DLC like the shape up to date, he's designed to reduce chase times with a limited-use special ability and thus minimize his point gain, but otherwise he's trash and incapable. We've got no means to even somewhat deal with how fast the game is now, and we can't even sustain our ranks because killer ranking was designed for good fleshed out games and anything short of that curbs your rank hard.
They're charging us for base game, £70+ for DLC, a premium currency store, and a season pass that renews. If I have to buy more DLC to stand a chance, it's pay to win.
So first off, private profiles do not mean SWF. I keep my steam profile private most of the time just so I don't have morons writing stupid comments on it and my kid plays on my profile for other games so I don't want some jackoff messaging her either.
Second, I didn't say the workaround was "buy more DLC" I suggested perks that can make the shape workable in the current meta, take with that information what you will. Sloppy butcher is a baseline perk. Nurse's calling comes from one of the three free killers. You already said you have Monitor and Abuse as it's a staple on Michael. So you're whining about paying five bucks for plague to get maybe the second best generator perk in the game right now?
I gave you a way to make the game less frustrating for you in the current status, but you're too busy to whine on the forums, no point in continuing this further.
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@Saitamfed said:
New Hex: Ruin is good because thanks to it the killers have to kick no mo'
Yeah that's not the issue, even remotely.
New Hex: Ruin isn't necessarily a bad perk, it just doesn't help with what old Hex: Ruin used to help with, which was early game generator slowdown. New Hex: Ruin does nothing if you don't actively push survivors off a generator. If they sit on a generator from 0 to 100% Hex: Ruin does nothing.
Ironically new Hex: Ruin works best on killers with high map mobility, i.e. killers who didn't need old Hex: Ruin in the first place. Killers like Hillbilly and Freddy can make great use of new Hex: Ruin because they are always all over the map chasing survivors off generators. Killers like Myers, who require setup time and were greatly aided by old Hex: Ruin are now forced to settle on Corrupt Intervention which is a poor substitute as it does nothing to slow down generator progress, and just makes the map smaller for two minutes in a nutshell, only not really cause survivors can just wait it out if they so choose.
@Traslogan said:
Seriously, the title says it all. Why the hell did you nerf Hex Ruin? There is no longer any feasible way to slow down gen-rushing, you've made it a core part of the game, and 99% of all games are SWF now so they coordinate to ensure they max out the gen-repairs whilst always knowing where you are and what you're doing and who you're going for.
Honestly just make the Killer an AI at this point, because there's nothing left except specifically play Spirit and Nurse or you're not strong enough no matter the perks to stop the onslaught of SWF rushing where everyone has decisive strike so you can't hook anyone in the end-game-collapse.
Ok, I'm assuming you're writing this on the heels of a particularly infuriating game, so I'm sympathetic. That said, 99% of your games are not SWF and claiming as much is hyperbole that pulls away from your main points. Exaggeration is not needed in this case.
Also I would argue more people play Freddy and Hillbilly than Nurse at high levels since her rework where she just became stun simulator 5000. I would recommend picking up Freddy, as he is probably the strongest killer with the lowest learning curve.
As far as dealing with your issue, I would recommend running the following build.
Nurse's Calling
Corrupt Intervention
Monitor and Abuse
Sloppy Butcher
Myers is a fun killer but he desperately needs setup time, this build gives him some of that by blocking off the far generators for two minutes. This ensure survivors have to come closer to him to get started on generators, leading to more stalk opportunities and more chases and hopefully hits and downs. Monitor and Abuse is of course a staple on Myers and still his best perk, make Stealthy boi great again, but Nurse's really makes him effective even when in EW2 as he can punish people trying to heal. To make this even more frustrating we pair it with sloppy butcher to make healing take forever giving survivors two not fun choices, don't heal and risk getting downed repeatedly even when regularly hit, or waste time healing.
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There's so many bad perks on both the survivor and killer sides at this point it's kind of a lost cause to try and make them all viable.
I mean, I could crusade all day to fix a perk like Monstrous Shrine, Bloodhound, Beast of Prey, the list goes on.
I'd rather they focus on more important things.
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I mean, could they? Probably, BP accumulation has no effect on gameplay. Will they? Probably not.
And the reasons have nothing to do with the game itself.
I would wager any amount of money that Leatherface is the most bought killer in DBD, hands down, not even close, and it has NOTHING to do with his power or playstyle, it's not even due to Franklin's Demise or Knock Out, it is strictly down to one perk. I am sure Leatherface has made BHVR hundreds of thousands if not millions in revenue, all due to giving him a double BP perk.
Now I ask you, as a business that has to sustain itself, are you just going to give that up randomly? Probably not.
Now as far as the perk itself, if the BP element is removed everyone just moves to using thrilling tremors. Not only do I get basically the same information (what generator to patrol next) but it can show me generators being worked on closer to me as well, it also blocks generators not being worked on.
BBQ and Chili is definitely an S tier perk due to it's BP and not it's aura reading, which is countered by a lot of tactics and is hardly completely accurate. But between the money that Leatherface buys makes for BHVR and the desire to keep people playing (that's why games have grinds in the first place, keep people playing and hopefully buying some cosmetics here and there) I wouldn't get your hopes up.
Hate to be the Debby Downer, sorry in advance.
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1181893#Comment_1181893
The game is 100% killer sided and you killer mains are just too biased to accept it.
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So others have answered your questions, so I'll just add a little more information.
The grind in this game is no joke.
First all perks have three ranks, and there's no guarantee after you get lucky and get rank 1 of a perk you want you will get rank 2 in the next bloodweb. Some perks are useful at Rank 1 (discordance is actually more useful at rank 1 then rank 3) and some are completely useless.
Each killer has three teachable perks that unlock for other killers at level 30, 35, and 40.
After you unlock a teachable perk, you then have to wait for it to appear in the bloodweb of the killer you want the perk for by spending bloodpoints and cycling through bloodweb after bloodweb.
If you do nothing else, for your sanity, spend the five bucks and purchase Leatherface, he has the best bloodpoint perk in the game called BBQ and Chili. Level him, unlock it, and use it on your killers as you level them, it will double your bloodpoints as well as show you the auras of survivors a certain distance away from the hook.
As far as ranks and matchmaking in the early going don't worry about it, your goal right now should be nothing but bloodpoint maximization to get the perks you need on the killers you want to play to be successful in the long term. Good news for you is you earn 1.5X bloodpoints currently thanks to the bloodhunt going on.
Best of luck in the fog.
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He's not terrible unless you're going against super optimal survivors who know they need to stay spread out and just don't heal. You counter him the same way you counter plague, don't heal and his power is useless. Then he's just a plain M1 killer who can be looped unmercifully, though you do run dangerous just because of being injured.
As others have said, he gets emblems pretty easy, malicious and chaser in particular because the game counts Feral Frenzy hits like successful M1 hits as well as a won chase. Assuming he gets a decent gatekeeper and devout score you can safety pip and even single pip with him a lot easier than most killers.
I played him a lot post ruin rework, and his ability to push multiple survivors off generators also makes the new Ruin surprisingly effective on him in my opinion. He also benefits from Monitor and Abuse once everyone is injured it's a lot easier to sneak up on people for M1 hits to down them.
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@Keezo said:
@Murdle @Kwikwitted This is the Off Topic section
It was originally posted in general discussion, it was moved to off-topic after we both commented.
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@thatboosteddwight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191074#Comment_1191074
The problem is that after all those misses he slugs the whole team thats what happens in like 70% of all games against him. Like i said i love playing with and against him i feel like it's really annoying getting hit after ten plus times just to be sluged tell death lol
You're talking about something that isn't even unique to Deathslinger at this point, now you're just griping about slugging.
Here you go, and in-depth guide to countering slugging. No need to thank me, it's just the kind of person I am.
Things to do if you are slugged.
- Use unbreakable, problem solved. Otherwise proceed to step 2.
- Make sure you hold M1 to recover, like seriously, do your teammates a solid you lazy, lazy potato. Assuming you do this, a teammate can literally run over, touch you for about a second, and get you up.
- Crawl to a pallet if available, this way if a killer is camping you as a slug, he now risks getting a pallet dropped on him if picked up and someone is close by.
- Wait to be picked up, heal, and resume generator rushing.
Things to do if your teammate is slugged:
- Get off the generator you toxic generator rushing potato and go help your people.
- If you are the first to arrive, and the killer is camping the slug, draw them into a chase, this will give another teammate time to get up the slug.
- If you are the second to arrive, and the killer is being lead away from the slug, once they are sufficient distance away, get the slug up, and then go off to heal.
- Resume generator rushing.
"But Kwikwitted, what if the killer is camping the slug and won't leave them even to chase?"
Well my fine potato, that's even better for the survivors. It take 4 MINUTES for someone to bleed out on the ground, if a killer is dumb enough to just stand over a slug waiting for them to bleed out you should have ample time to complete all generators, heal up any injuries, and bum rush the slug, pick them up, and body block for them all the way to the exit.
You're welcome.
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@Peanits said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/281/GHCD1URVAQ84.png
Oops, I dropped my mid-chapter screenshot. Well shucks, so much for revealing it next week. Guess we'll have to reveal some other changes instead.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1190852#Comment_1190852
Yeah, the problem is here that so many problems here are intertwined. This game is at it's core just so complicated that balancing it must be a nightmare.
A perk like the old version of Hex: Ruin was heavily tied to Gatekeeper, from what a lot of killers were saying on here. They've now moved to map size arguments (which I can agree on for SOME) but it doesn't change the fact that it was something that newer killers could easily rely on, or the issues that I've stated before on other threads regarding it's use on console and it's optimisation. I'm fine with it, except for the occasional lag spike or delayed reaction.
While I did disagree initially with what the rework was, with my own idea literally being slowed generator repairs, I'm not unsatisfied with how the change has gone. If utilised effectively, it can be a devastating perk. I feel though that topics like this are somewhat clouded by nostalgia and some killers refusing to play the game differently from patch to patch.
Indeed, I think the better solution would be a change to gatekeeper, I proposed this in a long thread of my own but the short version is they should change gatekeeper to exactly what it sounds like, how long you protected generators is irrelevant, how long did it take for the gates to open and if they don't open at all, that's an iridescent. That way if a killer is designed to give up some early generators but still win in the end they aren't penalized.
You state that Ruin was a perk for newer killers to rely on, and I agree with you, my contention is was that such a bad thing? Newer killers are unfamiliar with maps, loops, generator protection strategies, all of it, and they are all alone, no teammates to carry them through the game. Ruin to me acted as that early teammate that helped them get established until they got to higher ranks where it didn't work anymore and they had to adjust. Also really it just shifted from everyone using Hex: Ruin to those same killers all using Corrupt Intervention, so not sure how much of the "crutch perk" issue we solved there. Also why is there such a push to change killer crutch perks, while seemingly no push to change the second chance meta of Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, and Adrenaline? I'm just saying let's be fair in this "crutch perk" application lol.
My issue with new Ruin is that it's really only optimal on killers with high map pressure who can chase survivors off multiple generators constantly. Ironically, the killers who can utilize new Ruin the best are killers like Freddy and Hillbilly, who don't really need it. So the tradeoff is we made things even tougher for killers that needed help, setup killers, while making things even easier for killers that didn't need help, high mobility killers.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1190839#Comment_1190839
I thought that the emblems were something to bring up, especially since Ruin was championed by a lot of killers as one of the few ways to get any sort of decent Gatekeeper, and the unfocused Killer "meta". Never meant for it to be a central topic, but something to still consider.
Peanits did indeed say on his initial Hex: Ruin thread about how they would monitor the statistics and feedback. With a lot of people saying now that map size is the problem, they will probably just slowly rework all the maps to an acceptable level, and THEN look at re-doing the meta 4.
As for new killers, it's a complete stomping on one side or the other. Not normally a balanced result there per game. Something I've noticed with a pair of extra accounts so I don't drag my rank 19 and 20 mates into the firing lines of purple ranked killers.
Oh no I wasn't saying it was a useless point to bring up, I just thought it was a little off-topic to the current conversation, but in some ways it does connect, and it is certainly a good topic of discussion in general, maybe I should have been clearer on that, my apologies.
Yeah I do think they will make changes slowly, breakable walls may help, and they will likely slowly rework the most egregious offenders in the terrible map department.
I think lower ranks are killer-sided, I would admit it completely, because when survivors make mistakes in low ranks even baby killers can usually capitalize. But I also think that's why using them as the justification for changes that affect all players at all ranks is flawed.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1190529#Comment_1190529
Well, the thing is that it's something that the player can do, and something I did myself.
Peanits and Almo did also say that they needed to look at the statistics WITHOUT Ruin used in 90% of all games.
As for the killer "meta", I believe that they have a problem with their priorities. Most of them tend to base the "meta" around the ease of a 4k, rather than the emblem system. Both are inherently flawed approaches, but emblems mean rank. Hillbilly is technically TERRIBLE to rank up, considering the "proper" way to play him. Legion is fantastic, since you can do so many hits, amd force people to waste time with mending but is widely considered a weak killer.
Skill check related perks are an inherently flawed approach, since they are so random to generate, or in the case if old Ruin, punish certain types of players for not having an optimised PC rig, such as console players, who the chance of actually hitting a Great skill check is pot luck half the time. They (myself included) were one of the loudest voices against the old version of ruin.
As a Pig main, I highly understand the importance of old Ruin and it's stall potential, but this change has forced me to adapt and grow. I therefore welcome it.
Again, for the record, I wasn't against changing Ruin, I was against changing Ruin and not doing the other work required to make it so losing Ruin was not nearly as devastating to every killer below red ranks.
As someone who hit Rank 1 both before the Ruin rework and after Ruin I can confirm that Ruin was rarely used at higher ranks, and most red rank killers had already adapted, the red rank meta was about using Pop Goes the Weasel and mobile killers for a long time. The Hex: Ruin rework just made that meta the meta for all killers in all ranks. The problem with this is that for newer or less skilled killers their games went from "win some lose some" to "gen rushed in 5 minutes, get good baby killer".
So this off topic to the original point but you bring up the problems with the killer meta and the emblem system. The problem with the killer meta is that there ARE no priorities, at least that I've seen from the developers, nor does there seem to be any unified standard on what is a win, loss, or draw. We get some vague "killers should shoot for 2k" stuff but nothing beyond that. The meta isn't built around who can get a 4k the easiest, it's more who can stall generators long enough to at least get respectable emblem scores and enough kills to pip. As you said Hillbilly is not an easy killer to pip with due to his chainsaw not getting enough extra malicious score points making it almost better to play him as a very mobile M1 killer instead, as opposed to dopey boy Legion who can Feral Frenzy his way to a Safety pip or even sometimes a ruthless just because he frenzied and did meaningless hits all game. However Hillbilly is still considered a very meta killer because he can zoom around and utilize pop goes the weasel, which is objectively the best regression perk in the game now, on priority generators at critical times to slow down progress and stall the game out.
I agree that skill check related perks are not the best, but getting rid of Hex: Ruin and not fixing the problems with maps wasn't helpful either. Again, if Ruin's change comes with map changes I'm not even bringing up the issue.
And yes, some players will improve, I had to go through those growing pains when I first hit red ranks many moons ago because to red rank survivors (at least then) Hex: Ruin was a minor inconvenience and a wasted perk slot I couldn't afford, so I had to adapt, learn to optimize every loop I possibly could, learn to immediately identify priority generators to protect, all that. The problem is that newer killers and those who play setup killers have no ability to get going before the game is halfway over, and that's what causes the killer meta you see now. People don't like getting embarrassed by a five minute game just cause they wanted to play Trapper or Myers.
By all means if reducing map sizes means nerfs to the core four meta killers, that's a fair trade to make everyone at least viable. But until that time, I'm gonna be spamming my Freddy, Hillbilly, and Spirit and survivors can deal with it.
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@Murdle said:
Why is this being posted in general discussion on dbd tho?
For once and I can't believe I'm saying this, I'm agreeing with Murdle. Why is this being posted here?
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@SpicyBoy said:
Oni is basically a better hillbilly. Pretty much removes the purpose of playing him besides dailies. Also a lunge by dictionary definition is a sudden forward thrust of the body. Clearly killers are not meant to be rotating their bodies as they lunge FORWARD.
Wrong on so many levels.
First, Oni needs blood to even use his power, Hillbilly can chainsaw early, often, and always.
Second, this is a video game, if killers aren't supposed to be rotating their bodies during a lunge, than survivors aren't supposed to be doing pirouettes on one foot to 360.
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I'd go another direction, can we ban certain survivor or killer and map combinations?
For example, you can ban any killer + map combination you want, but I get to ban Claudette and Yamaoka Crest.