Kwikwitted
Kwikwitted
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Don't DBD tournaments have a bunch of artificial rules?
Would they really be the best examples for attempting to make a case for game balance? Since there will be factors common to regular games that don't show up in tournament play because they aren't allowed or otherwise hindered?
And is a couple games in a tournament format a really good indicator of game balance over the thousands of games played everyday?
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@Shin_Vertigo said:
I feel a good fix for decisive would be this:
- No skill check, just an auto activation
- Active from the moment you are unhooked for 1 min
- If another survivor is hooked during the 1 min, decisive deactivates
- For 10 secs after unhook, if you are downed, decisive remains active for the full minute regardless of the last part
This fixes:
- Tunnelling
- Survivor stupidity allowing them hook transfers
- Screwing over killers when they didn't really want to tunnel, but did so on accident
- Camping killers screwing over survivors that get rescued without borrowed time
Edit: No skill check is so a perk that only activates situationally doesn't skip out because of dumb skill check misses (i.e. killer perks or abilities that make skill checks harder or just genuinely unskilled survivors who can't hit the harder skill check). Possibly make it able to activate more than once? With the new conditions I don't know that the perk would break then, but maybe it would.
I support this idea (admittedly from a killer main perspective)
I'm fine with making it a non-skill check perk, as I don't think that really changes anything.
You could tweak it slightly and say that not only does the killer have to hook someone else for it to de-activate, but they need to land a successful offensive action as well, this would prevent the double hook scenario some in the thread are complaining about. Basically if you require a hit and a hook, it means the killer definitely went and chased someone else, and didn't just down two at once, hook one, hook another.
By making it only 10 seconds and still allowing you to get slugged it doesn't completely make Borrowed Time Obsolete.
And yeah with these parameters in place it could activate twice and I would be fine with it.
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As a couple others have said, it's something I'll make a mental note of but it won't influence play until we start.
Now if you're wearing legacy AND you are clearly an insanely good looper, I may start de-prioritizing you and going after your more potato teammates.
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1182634#Comment_1182634
if that is the case then the game should just end as soon as the hatch is closed, but it doesnt
The killer getting to the hatch first is closing off one of the options, it is supposed to make things harder to escape now as it eliminates the alternative option.
Wanna escape? Find the hatch first.
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I think League of Legends still takes the cake for toxic community.
As far as one that wasn't as bad usually I would have to say during my time playing World of Warcraft at least on the PVE side I never saw major elements of toxicity. Of course a lot of this is due to the fact that it's players vs. an AI opponent but there was always the chance that someone else screwing up was going to cause a wipe and that could lead to toxicity. And raid leaders going berserk on their teams after a close wipe was always something that went viral in the community, but on the average that wasn't the case.
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@jamako said:
@Rivyn @RaccoonYes, I would expect it to be like that. But there are also players who loose and write gg and they would then leave a positive rating and this is where the system could distinguish between a toxic person who would exclusively get bad ratings.
@BeHasU Hmm but tunneling just the new guy just to get an easy kill is still unfair.
@DBD78 I did facecamp the dude in the basement where at the time another survivor was hooked. They came for the rescue and i nodded at the other guy and shook my head at the teabagger, but they tried to save both, meh.
@Kwikwitted You're right about that and it's too naive to think it possible that people respect their opponents.
But yeah, having a system like that would basically force them to play nice.
They could also reverse this and make it possible to give positive ratings so that if you got a high rating you get bonus blood points etc.
Hah or just make survivors automatically get teleported on a basement hook if they teabag or flashlight click. Shouldn't be that hard to recognise for the game.
The problem with ratings is always the same, it's subjective and people will often give players who beat them bad ratings even if they played "honorable". You can't enforce good behavior with a feedback system anymore than you can enforce good behavior with any system.
I've had games where I played as "honorable" as you possibly can, didn't tunnel, didn't camp, got everyone to death hook before I started eliminating people, gave the last guy the hatch, everything you could do. Do you think the after-game chat was filled with "gg wp"? Nope, "stupid noob tunneler camper bad killer plays like a scrub to win" was much more accurate.
End of the day I don't want my rating in the hands of other players, because I can't enforce them being truthful.
League of Legends tried this years ago with the "honor" emblems. It didn't end well.
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"Hag, Huntress, and Spirit have no giveaway"
Um, have you met my friend? His name is Myers, Michael Myers.
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@Junebug said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1183540#Comment_1183540
there's no reason that a vs game should necessarily breed toxicity
The issue isn't the game itself, the issue is human nature.
This kind of thing goes back long before video games, whether it's sports, politics, or any other thing that pits different sides against each other there's always going to be some douches on each side that instigate that kind of behavior when dealing with the other side.
Combine that with online game's anonymity and it's not surprising to see how you get to people saying stuff to people in after-game chat that we all know good and well they would never say to anyone's face.
Not to get philosophical, but trying to solve toxicity in a video game community is basically trying to fix human nature, not gonna happen.
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@indieeden7 said:
Me when the killer down me as well as another person, hooks me, picks the other person up, someone saves me, killer then hooks the other person, comes back and tunnels me: Oh I guess they didn't tunnel
They didn't, by defintion, just because you failed so hard both of you got downed and no one came to pick you up isn't the killer's fault. When someone comes to unhook the first player the killer now knows where 3 of the four survivors are, 2 at the unhook and one still on a hook, where the hell else is that killer supposed to go? Randomly wander looking for the fourth survivor?
@Claudette_Baguette said:
DS Rework: DS activates for 3 minutes after being unhooked or wiggling off the hook. Hitting a skill check lets you get off the killers grasp like usual. DS deactivates when one of the following conditions are met: When you start repairing a gen, when entering a locker, when healing or being healed, when another survivor is hooked. This would make DS way fairer. It is supposed to be an anti-tunneling perk and not "im invincible for 1 minute and can do whatever I want"-perk.
You don't need all this, just having it de-activate when another is hooked is enough.
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@CamaroThunder24 said:
Hi all,
I just had a match where I was playing as the Doctor and I went up against a very VERY toxic, almost downright filthy team of survivors. I could clearly tell it was a SWF group but there was no need to play that way. I managed to kill 3 of them and the 4th escaped through the hatch. After the game (more like bullying session) they sent me messages of how I'm pathetic, horrible, play a different game, etc...
I'm a level 10 killer so I've played against some salty people before, but NEVER like this. So my question is how do you, or any recommendations as to how to play against people like that in game? I NEVER camp hooks because I absolutely hate doing that, but I almost did during that game because they weren't leaving me much of a choice and I didn't know what else to do.
One way to look at it, if they're so busy trying to bully you, they aren't doing generators. So you got that going for you, which is nice.....
In all seriousness, if you killed three of them, they screwed up. They can say whatever they want in after-game chat, I would just type "scoreboard" and then leave, they know you won, they're just being salty at that point.
If you didn't camp and didn't tunnel, then you know you played a clean game and still wrecked them, so anything they say now just confirms that they're a bunch of salty people who don't like that they lost, end of story.
If you don't want to deal with the after-game noise, just immediately hit upgrade or continue, problem solved.
This is my philosophy on salty players in a nutshell.
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@PinkEricka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1182745#Comment_1182745
LOL. Wow. Unbelievable. We are currently in a COVID-19 epidemic to the point where spending money on necessity’s is extremely crucial than ever... and someone’s first idea is to waste their money on an ad about a game they don’t even like.
I think that ad on Reddit was a while ago, not recently.
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Well first thing I would laugh at them for burning two red keys when you only need one for the group, apparently coordinating in their pre-lobby was too hard.
But seriously.
First, realize that it can always happen like that, bad games are part of the deal, particularly as killer where there is no safety net if you aren't at your best. I get my butt kicked at Rank 1 at least once a day by really good survivors, and I make a bunch of mistakes and I wanna blame everything under the sun except what was actually to blame (my own bad play of course).
Second, try to pick up at least one or two things you could improve on for the next match, did any chases go longer than they should have, did you patrol generators in a way that was efficient? What about your perks? Did you get a lot of value from them? If not, what should you swap out and what for? Would consulting a guide be worthwhile?
Best of luck in the fog.
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Best options would either be:
Scratched Mirror Myers on a Map like Lery's, The Game, Maybe Hawkins.
Wraith with Coxcomb Clapper + "All Seeing" Blood. Makes your reappearance give off no sound and with All Seeing you can tell where the are on a generator before you uncloak. This one wouldn't be nearly as map dependent.
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@gatsby said:
Rank 1 players simply take over purple/green games when they're matched in them. I honestly think that hitting Rank 1 should lock your matchmaking to Red Rank only games, sure their queue times might suck but at least they're not ruining games for everyone else.
As Fibjean has already pointed out, they aren't doing anything with the old system until the new system is implemented.
Now as far as your "solution". What stops red rank caliber players on either side to not just depip as needed to stay around Rank 5 so they can continue to get matches quicker? If going to red ranks means an eternity in the queue lobby, people will just avoid red ranks, it's not hard to depip. killers can just let the gen rush happen, survivors can just get themselves killed quickly and easily. It wouldn't solve any of the problems you are trying to fix.
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@Murdle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1182680#Comment_1182680
Dang I was just hoping one out of two of those doctor mains weren't gonna follow me from thread to thread..
Yeah the other guy is the one who actually plays Doctor, I don't. Freddy, Hillbilly, Wraith, and Myers mostly. I just had fun ridiculing your use of words like "Objective" and "True" and having no clue what they mean.
Doesn't change that your tier list is really, really off. Leachy pointed out some of the same issues I did, I guess that makes it "objective" and "true" lol.
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I have to assume this is coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't play killer, but as a survivor who they think is strong. Only explanation for it.
Oni in the second to highest tier, not even close, he's an inferior version of Billy with a way worse late game, a power that's less useful than Billy's and not available nearly as often.
Myers and Trapper in A tier, good joke, both need tons of setup time and are really only great when Survivors are dumb enough to step in traps or oblivious enough to allow for easy stalking, otherwise they have horrible games.
Clown in mid-tier when he's almost unanimously considered one of the worst killers along with Bubba, really?
Huntress below Deathslinger when Deathslinger is an inferior version of Huntress, again really?
Wraith bottom tier? I agree he can be countered somewhat by spine chill but even still he is NOT bottom tier in the slightest.
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How many chances are you supposed to get exactly?
He not only worked to sacrifice the other three survivors but he also beat you to the hatch. He won, you lost, deal with it.
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@Ohnoes said:
It's fine as is. The only place it's impossible to see survivors is the new map's bushes. Everywhere else you can see a survivor whether they are a p3 or not. The third person camera is a far bigger culprit of not being able to spot a survivor than a blendette.
You mean first person?
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About the only time I like Yamaoka is when I'm playing trapper.
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So you're really close, but there's a couple tweaks necessary.
Only thing I would add is during Food Critique he needs to yell "IT'S ######### RAW!!!!!" at least once.
Second, when using idiot sandwich he has to produce two pieces of bread and put them on either side of the survivor's head and then ask them "WHAT ARE YOU?" to which they reply "AN IDIOT SANDWICH.
Other than that, just about perfect.
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"no wonder killer is so easy to play nowadays..."
Gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8.
As far as the TL:DR Lithe is a good exhaustion perk, but you're not going to tell people to give up their dead hard, they need them to make those "sick plays" where they dash to make a window or pallet then tea bag like it was a really hard play to do. Don't get me wrong there are good dead hard plays, if you use it to actually dodge a swing that's pretty good reaction, but just using it for extend a loop is a play everyone can make, it's not special.
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Brand new account, only 3 posts. Claiming game is killer sided, complaining about camping and tunneling.
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I'm chuckling at how many people are using revisionist history to claim no one has ever hated on Demogorgon.
When he first came out, people RAGED to no end about shred's distance and quick charge. People complained about his portal being invisible until he uses them, they complained about him being able to keep STBFL stacks by hitting the obsession with shred instead of basic attacks.
By the way that last one is still true and I HIGHLY recommend it. You get to basically spend the entire game with 40% faster recovery on your M1, so now with M1, recover, shred you end chases SO fast.
Now once survivors calmed down a bit and realized that shred can be juked, and that all they had to do was drop the pallet early, the rage subsided, and now he's the cute doggo everyone thinks he is now.
TL:DR Every killer has gotten hate, at the very least when they were new and different, just because they aren't hated now is not an indicator of the original incoherent rage that accompanied them.
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New account, first post.
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@Cheers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1181792#Comment_1181792
And that's where it comes down to basic looping knowledge.
I came from Hillbilly, a killer who you really have to choose if you want to go for The Chainsaw or the hit, and due to so many loops being hard to use with a chainsaw, you have to be a basic M1 killer.
The thing is Billy's power still has a use in map mobility, even if you aren't getting insta-downs. Billy gets no penalty from sprinting across the map, and pretty much can immediately start his chainsaw back up for an insta-down if he finds someone. His power also can take him completely across the map assuming you don't run into something.
If Legion tries that, and uses his power to traverse the map quickly, first off he doesn't get nearly as far as feral frenzy is only 10 seconds unless you hit someone, and that's unlikely if you're just using it for map movement as you don't see scratch marks. Second, he now has to wait for his power to reload which at baseline is a whopping 20 seconds before addons before using it again for any reason, deep wounds, map mobility, or otherwise.
If you have great looping knowledge that makes you good with all M1 killers, at that point it's better to not take Legion cause at least other killers have powers that can help in ending a chase and putting that looping knowledge to good use.
As I said, Legion excels when survivors are stupid, and either group up or try to heal continuously and waste time that he can undo instantly with a quick stab, but if they aren't playing into his game his power becomes a non-factor, and he's an M1 killer with no power.
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@Cheers said:
I for one don't mind playing Legion and find him good. Survivors don't heal? Loop them. You have to do the same with killers like Wraith and Myers. Survivors being injured with Legion is the same as survivors being exposed with Ghostface.
Wraith can cloak and get a surprise hit on an injured survivor, ending a chase instantly. Even easier if he runs nurse's calling.
Myers at least gets reduced TR in EW2 and he can hit EW3 and gain the ability to one shot even healthy survivors.
When Ghostface exposes someone, it's usually when he's right on top of them, so there isn't really much looping to do if they let him get close enough to stalk to 100%. Ghostface's exposure also can down a healthy survivor.
The thing with these three's powers is that their powers contribute to them actually downing a survivor, Legion's does not, that's the key difference.
The best comparison for Legion is Plague, both have the ability to punish and discourage healing to the point where nobody will, but at that point they are just standard speed M1 killers and their powers are completely taken out of the equation.
Can you win with Legion and Plague? Of course you can, and Legion punishes survivors who heal or group up extremely hard, but if survivors are smart enough not to do either of those things he becomes very weak.
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@Montenegro said:
I know man, but, I want some punishment for this folks. Because, every day, I found this guys around the game
They get punished, severely less BP and a guaranteed de-pip, outside of that there really isn't much to be done.
@Montenegro said:
I have a video, if you guys want to see.
True me bud everyone has seen a camping Bubba, it's not a shock to anyone.
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My cousin works in a hospital and just went into self-quarantine while they await testing on whether or not she may have the virus. A friend of both me and my wife from our days when I was in the military has also self-quarantined. Obviously we're hoping they both don't have it and if they do have it that they have a speedy and safe recovery.
On a positive note, my daughter who is only five has been enjoying her very long spring break at this point lol. I'm so glad she's mostly oblivious to this whole thing. Our school district thankfully has an online curriculum so I've been working with her to continue to get through that.
I've been very lucky to have a stay at home option for my job so not having to commute an hour and a half each way up to D.C. has been nice, but I'm definitely getting a little Cabin Fever at this point. I miss playing Poker at MGM National Harbor, I miss going out to Dinner, I miss normal. This reminds me of Deployment, maybe not that extreme, but I remember coming home to the States from Afghanistan and Iraq and just being so glad I could get in my car and go anywhere I wanted to. Losing that again sucks.
To all my fellow killer players and even you survivor players, may you and yours stay safe and well through this thing.
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@Zaitsev said:
Its ironic, because for the most part, Clown has a pretty solid lineup of perks. Adept Clown was really enjoyable to get, unlike the hell that adept killer achievements are to get these days
Makes you wonder if BHVR intentionally makes the killers with the best perks D tier intentionally.
Bubba - One of the worst killers, but has arguably one of the best killer perks in the game for grinding BP at the very least (BBQ and Chili), also has a key perk for slugging builds (Knockout), and the only perk that can remove items from survivors if struck (Franklin's Demise).
Clown - One of the worst killers, but has the best generator regression perk in the game (Pop Goes the Weasel), a very good vaulting denial perk (Bamboozle), and a mediocre terror radius healing reduction perk (Coulrophobia).
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@BigTimeGamer said:
there should be an option to bleed faster, being slugged repeatedly just makes me eat the DC timer and play something else
and no, unbreakable isnt a "counter" since you cant know if you will be dealing with a pro slug gamer, same logic with "just bring iron will 4head vs a spirit"
Right, cause terror radius isn't a thing, or watching your icons to see if the killer is actively chasing someone. But you right, no possible way to know if the killer is still around or not. Totally.
Ironically I agree with both your other points. A faster bleed out option sounds fine to me. And yes people are dumb for saying you should psychically know you're going to play spirit so bring Iron Will. Thing is, isn't Iron Will pretty good in general anyway?
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179542#Comment_1179542
The reason his kill rate was low is because nobody knew how to properly play him (aside from a few people like me), also stats don't determine how good a killer is. According to stats nurse is the current worse killer.
If people actually learned old Freddy, they would've realised how good he was, but they didn't, and they kept their "7 second fedora man bad" mentality which ruined him.
Ah yes, the "no one knew how to do it but me, he was good I swear! You were all just bad!" argument.
You realize how insane you sound here right? Apparently you are just the one who understands this game so much more than anyone else you saw the hidden OP nature in a killer pretty much unanimously considered the worst in the game. Sure bud, whatever you say.
And Nurse's stats are skewed because if you play Nurse the first couple games you will be TERRIBLE because her learning curve is easily the steepest in the game. Meanwhile I can teach a monkey how to play someone like Billy in about 5 minutes and they'll at least be reasonably effective.
Freddy's numbers were in the toilet all across the board, you can't put that on statistical anomaly and you certainly can't pretend people weren't willing to give him a chance. Freddy is easily the most iconic figure in horror in this game (except for perhaps Leatherface). People WANTED him to be good, he just WASN'T
Yep, it's the community's fault, they just couldn't see his greatness or your brilliance. This is comical, I've never seen someone with a superiority complex like this before, it's downright hilarious.
Look if your whole thread point was "I liked old Freddy, I wish I could play him again" that's a perfectly reasonable statement and opinion, but this "old Freddy was OP you noobs just didn't know how to play him right" nonsense is just making you look crazy.
I assume next you'll be telling us all about how Legion is actually secretly OP and everyone "just doesn't know how to play him right".
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I agree with you for the most part, I would respectfully disagree that early game can't be good for killers. It definitely can be and it sets up the mid to late game much easier.
For example I'm a big proponent of trying to get that first down as quickly as possible as I tend to run Thrilling Tremors and Pop goes the weasel on most of my killers. Being able to get that early generator block and direct regression can really stall out the first generator getting completed, which seems to often put survivors into panic mode.
You're certainly right that losing 1-2 generators early isn't the end of the world, but it doesn't mean you can't contest it either.
Either way, good to see another killer main acknowledging the actual problem, and something I think we have a much better shot at fixing as opposed to endless posts suggesting "longer generator completion times" as if that's going to fly.
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@Laer said:
Survivors should not be able to depip when another survivor suicides 2 minutes into the match. Give us a black pip so we can move on to another game without losing anything.
The problem is the game has no way to determine who intentionally chose to die and who just failed to kobe.
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Bamboozle is certainly not a bad perk, and the change to the noise does make it very nice against people who like to vault spam, the problem with it is it's a very map dependent perk, meaning if it's a map without a lot of windows, then it's kind of a wasted slot.
My only other concern with Bamboozle is it tends to teach killers bad habits, instead of mind-gaming windows or learning to beat t-walls and jungle gyms in a way that isn't perk dependent Bamboozle instead becomes a crutch. Also you can only block one window at a time, so loops with two windows can still be run very effectively.
Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, and as Steel-Eyed said the perk can be excellent on someone like Hillbilly who will use the blocked window to setup an instadown, but it's a perk that eventually as you continue to get better and better at dealing with window loops that you'll find yourself not needing it.
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@Kate_Main_01 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180810#Comment_1180810
Thank you! ^_^ I try to be super upbeat and cheerful in all of my posts - this forum could use it!
I said Miss! Unless Ms is a different honorific. English is my second language so I am not sure!
Must.....resist.......grammar......correction.
Eh, damnit. Ok brain.
So you were "technically" incorrect.
- Miss: Use “Miss” when addressing young girls and women under 30 that are unmarried.
- Ms.: Use “Ms.” when you are not sure of a woman’s marital status, if the woman is unmarried and over 30 or if she prefers being addressed with a marital-status neutral title.
I'm so sorry, I can't help it. It's not you, it's me and my brain, I've spent way too many years grading papers so these kinds of stupid rules are burned into my head.
But as Doddle28 said, your enthusiasm for the game is nice to see and I hope you keep that positive attitude.
@immortalls96 said:
Wish there were more of us..or reasons for more to exist
Just kind of hard to really be enticed to play the stun simulator when there's better options for strong killers without that level of muscle memory practice.
(Freddy tips Fedora in the corner)
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180868#Comment_1180868
LOL Big facts. And no, nobody plays Jeff for some reason. Idk why...maybe I should play some Jeff. Give him some love.
Don't play survivor but if I had to venture a guess, survivors have no powers, unlike killers, so really once you get the perks you want on someone, there really isn't a giant incentive to level another, unless a new survivor comes out with a perk that everyone just has to have.
Jeff's perks don't look particularly good, or at least I never see them on survivors I play against.
So really unless you're REALLY into bearded Jesus, it just kind of seems like a lot of work for not a lot of reward would be my best guess.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180815#Comment_1180815
TBH, I wouldn't mind if Ormond got a rework. I keep seeing people say its the map size, but I think you are right, its the layout. I just dont agree with the sentiment that all maps need to be smaller. If Ormond stayed the same and the size was reduced, it would just be even more awkward. LOL Maybe they should have done a smaller "office" for check-in and a couple cabins instead of a giant lodge building. If this map left the game, I would not shed a tear. LOL
Honestly I think there's enough people that wouldn't mind if they refunded for that entire DLC, given the amount of people that hate Legion, hate Ormond, and well Jeff is ok, but really does anyone main Jeff?
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@HamdaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1176385#Comment_1176385
i couldnt care less what you think either. most sentient people would know your assessment is laughable. have a good day
"Most sentient people would know"
Did you stop to ask them all? Or is this just another lazy appeal to authority you don't actually have?
Thought so.
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@GeordieKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180553#Comment_1180553
Dude they really arent its stupid how quick they are. But that is due to the three keys things that i did mention in this thread but here it is again
the issue is three fold 1st are Tool boxes and their "nerf" really isnt a nerf at all especially in high red ranks. the 2nd is gen speed perks that survivors have, solo they are weak but then you times it by 4 then you have a problem :/ and thirdly map sizes and amount of pallets and jungle gyms etc its to safe theres no real risk only hawkins and the saloon are fairly balanced maps.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180520#Comment_1180520
these one lines that you done are not helpful in these discussions and debates. This issue of gen speeds has been persistent over the past few years and only been made worse since the ruin "rework" where i have laways seen 5 plus posts talking about gen speeds or map sizes.
So please put something useful or even go into more detail on why gen speeds are "fine" instead of this one line no room to debate or discuss
thank you
This response is just you being bitter and refusing to do anything to help yourself, pure and simple. It's a hell of a lot easier to whine about generator speeds than do anything to help yourself right?
And please, "Persistent over the past few years" THE GAME IS ONLY A FEW YEARS OLD HERP A DERP. But then again this from the genius who looks at a four paragraph comment on a thread and claims it needs "more detail" while he offers a whopping two sentences to the conversation.
And just because you see posts of people whining about something doesn't mean they're immediately right. There's posts all the time about how every killer is a tunneling camper, does that make it true? The vocal minority doesn't mean automatic accuracy.
So since the cordial response wasn't good enough for you, let's start laying out some harsh truths. The fact is, there is still plenty of killers who play at red ranks regularly, I happen to be one of them.
Current screenshot showing Rank 1 taken at 8:02 PM 3/27/2020
Steam Achievement for Legendary Killer: January 27th, 2019
Most of us haven't ran Ruin for many months and that was BEFORE it was reworked, because simply put it wasn't worth it at red ranks for most killers because survivors at those ranks can hit a great skill check. It was much more valuable to either use a direct regression perk like Pop Goes the Weasel on a more mobile killer, or eschewing generator perks altogether and focusing strictly on chasing potential to reduce chase times and exert as much kill pressure as possible.
So now riddle me this batman. How is it that I and many other players like myself as I am hardly unique in this, have managed to climb to red ranks and even rank 1 month after month, are we just getting lucky with nothing but potato survivors every single game? Yeah I WISH. I get optimal survivors in 75% of my game. You think it's frustrating to get red rank survivors as a yellow or green rank? That's my normal playtime. And I seek that particular challenge out, why? Because that's the only way you learn what works in this game and what doesn't.
Hex: Ruin was a crutch that allowed a lot of not that great killers think they were better than they really were. Hex: Ruin covered for longer than optimal chase times because survivors were looking for totems or having trouble hitting great skill checks. Well guess what happens when you get to red ranks like I did? That doesn't work anymore, survivors either find the totem immediately, or just power through it like it's not even there.
So what was the answer? Cry? Whine on the forums (not naming any names here?) or learn how to get better? I chose the latter, I played game after game trying to maximize my chase times on multiple killers, learning how to optimize loops and end chases as quickly as I possibly could. Would I still lose? At times of course, but a funny thing happens when you start getting better and better at ending chases quickly. Generators stop popping, because you are occupying multiple survivors through either hooking them directly or forcing their teammates to come unhook your people. Then I learned about juggling, slugging for slowdown effect, when to proxy camp and when not to. I got BETTER when I got rid of Hex: Ruin than before I used it, because I didn't have the crutch to rely on.
If generator speeds were an issue across the board, why do killers have absurd kill rates on maps like Hawkins and Way Worse on maps like Ormond or Disturbed Ward? If generator issue was the only problem wouldn't that kill rate be constant? It's because the MAPS are the problem. Mercifully BHVR has started to realize this with their new maps if nothing else. Saloon is actually quite balanced, Hawkins is pretty killer sided but I wondered if that was them experimenting with a map of all unsafe pallets.
Does that mean there AREN'T any balance problems? Of course not, there are issues, some killers need some help, particularly if they are setup reliant, the emblem system is a mess, and matchmaking is atrocious. But no, generator speeds, IN AND OF THEMSELVES, are not the problem.
TL:DR: Hey scrub, I get to Rank 1 every month being deaf in one ear and with reaction and game skill levels for a guy in his mid-30's. If I can do it, you sure as hell can do it if you put in some practice.
In short.
GIT GUD.
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It's actually just as bad as a disconnect, because it eliminates the chance for additional hook actions and points towards devout emblem.
Killer gets two points toward devout for a hook or kill, but you can't double dip, so a kill on first hook is still just the original two points, now you just screwed the killer out of at least four more possible points because you aren't around to possibly get hooked two more times.
Either way you screwed the killer and your teammates, not to mention if you expected the killer to do something nice like give last guy hatch that's not happening now that I'm not sure if I'll need those two points in devour for a safety pip.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180543#Comment_1180543
I have only gotten the new map a handful of times. I agree with you, it's just a learning curve. I don't expect to do as well there because I don't have as much experience. My only gripe with smaller maps, especially as an often solo survivor, is that it makes EGC a death sentence in most cases, regardless of how well you play(ed).
You keep mentioning Ormond...it is SMALLER than most classic maps. It's just awkwardly laid out. All of these maps have killers who do better/worse on them. Not EVERY killer will be optimal on EVERY map...that is why killers who launch with a map tend to have an advantage on it. The same as not EVERY map is optimal for survivors. And devs have already removed windows and reduced the number of palettes on maps.
Just in case this is helpful, the best tiles for saloon are the central building obviously, as well as the balconies on the little buildings near the generators at the one end of the street. The killer has to go up the stairs to make a play at the vault and once they do you can jump down and pretty much lose them guaranteed. Hangman's scaffold can also present some mind games as well since there is lockers underneath it.
So the big issue with Ormond is as you said, a really bad layout, but more importantly, it's like a reverse of Saloon, EVERY pallet is absurdly safe, with many offering no counter-play whatsoever. Ormond may also not be as huge as Disturbed Ward or Rotten Fields but it's awkward layout makes it worse in some ways, specifically because if the central generator gets completed setting up a 3-gen is impossible.
No one is saying they want killers to be optimal on every map, but it would be nice if all killers were at least viable. Putting Clown on Disturbed Ward or Bubba on Ormond is pretty much cruelty at this point.
And yeah killers who use a map offering are going to likely have a setup that takes advantage of it. It's the same idea as when survivors use a Haddonfield offering, you know at least that person has balanced landing.
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@FreakPrince said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180587#Comment_1180587
Actually I do have every right because I’m giving the devs a ton of money. When the situation is reversed, does it suck? Yes, but I just deal with it and move on.
And I suppose none of those other players have a right to a game with teammates who don't ragequit? How do you know they aren't giving the devs a "ton of money" there smart guy?
Your lack of awareness is staggering.
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@RobMeister88 said:
>Toolboxes, BNP's, flashlights, keys and swf gen rush/bully squads = casual players just looking to have fun
>Slugging when Unbreakable and altruistic teammates exist = sweaty try-hards
>feelsdoublestandardman
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Still waiting on my Coronavirus Plague cosmetic, but other than that, yeah it's a good idea for them to do it and they clearly listened to their players and reacted to current events.
For that I will give them credit.
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@FreakPrince said:
Why should players be forced to play a match they don’t want to? Or be punished for an option (attempt escape) that’s in the game? I’m not obliged to keep smashing the struggle button because that’s dumb and even if that was the case, players would just go AFK so it doesn’t really matter.
"Why should players be forced to play a match they don't want to?"
Well you seemed pretty jazzed to play the match when you queued up there scooter, just cause a game isn't going your way doesn't mean you get license to throw a tantrum and take your ball and go home giving your entire team the giant middle finger in the process.
You know that when you do this you completely screw them over right? I mean completely, unless the gates are literally already opened or there's only one generator left I'm almost assuredly winning now as killer.
I'm sure if the situation is reversed and you were trying your hardest to escape you would be totally cool with your teammates bailing on you right? Right?
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@Okoru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180543#Comment_1180543
Oh wow I honestly didn't know that there was a slowdown penalty there so you make a good point. Just trying out some different suggestions to help balance the game and it's honestly pretty tough. Every time I think of a good change for one side, then the other side needs a change too :/
It's all good, a lot of killers are struggling right now so I get that people want a solution. The problem I believe is the loss of Hex: Ruin before the more egregious maps were re-worked was a very poor decision, as it has made the struggle a lot worse.
While I wasn't using Hex: Ruin myself as I had stopped using it when I got to red ranks consistently and realized survivor could hit great skill checks way more often, I know it was a major blow to a lot of killers in yellow, green, and even purple ranks. It also hurt a lot of people who play certain killers at all ranks, specifically ones who need setup time like Trapper, Hag, and Myers.
The best advice I can proffer as I have lived without Ruin for a long time is you have to ABC, Always Be Chasing. The best pressure you can exert as a killer is downing and hooking a survivor, and then (in his best DJ Khaled Voice) another one. What losing Ruin has done is shown a lot of killer (and this was true for me too when I first stopped using it) is they really aren't as good at chases as they thought, it's just that Ruin could make up for those longer chases. You really have to go back and look at yourself critically and figure out where you can start maximizing your chases at all times, this is the only way to really start exerting pressure that will actually get a desired outcome.
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@Okoru said:
As most people would agree that gen speeds prob need to be looked at or possibly smaller maps? Something to nerf gen rushing needs to come to the game. What about an idea where there are generators that can only be operated by 1-2 players at most? No more 3-4 people on a gen. I think this added in with increased gen times could possibly work? Honestly im just spitballing ideas right now. Any other ideas?
So the thing is, 3 on a generator is actually inefficient for survivors due to the slowdown penalty unless they are running prove thyself. I would rather have three survivors on one gen with 6 gens at 0 then survivors spreading out and progressing 3-4 generator simultaneously.
The issue as you even mentioned is map size, particularly the worst offenders like Ormond, Rotten Fields, Disturbed Ward, and the fact that places like Groaning Storehouse or Ironworks can get have basically very safe infinite depending on window spawns.
@LALYTHIA said:
I wouldn't mind more 2-sided gens. This is one of the only suggestions I've seen that doesn't cuck solo survivors and would split up SWF. I can only think of one killer where this would present an issue for survivors. And I don't often end up doing gens with more than one other person. But maps don't need to be smaller. Most of the newer maps are smaller than classic maps and are still the ones being complained about.
The new maps are being complained about by survivors, which is customary until survivors learn the tiles and realize they're not quite as "killer sided" as they thought. Saloon is not nearly as bad as survivor are claiming, it's that many of them don't know the major strengths of the map for survivors.
I will concede Hawkins is just a death sentence, every time I get that map as a killer I can't help but feel a little guilty. And your point still doesn't account for the fact that absolutely horrid maps like Rotten Fields, Disturbed Ward, and Ormond still exist in their current ridiculous forms.
If ALL maps were redone to be more balanced, I don't think generators need any fixing at all quite frankly. But as of right now there is only 2-3 killers who are viable on every map, and that's a problem.
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@tippy2k2 said:
Honestly, I'm on Team "Let the survivors pick themselves up" (without needing those specific perks that let you do this).
Slugging a survivor should always carry that risk for the killer. You put someone down and don't hook them, you risk that survivor being able to pick themselves up if they are able to successfully hide from you.
Killers often slug survivors to force other survivors to come pick them up, and thus not be on generators, that's kind of the point.
And as has been said already, run unbreakable if you want the option to pick yourself up.
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Actually that's not even remotely the only reason we use slugging, at all.
Slugging is a very powerful temporary generator slowdown tactic. When you're face-first in the dirt, you aren't rushing generators, and unless you've got unbreakable someone has to come pick you up. The four minutes is to give your teammates ample time to pick you up.
And as I just mentioned, unbreakable counters slugging, so........there's your solution?
As far as slugging for the 4k, yeah sorry but the way emblems work now sometimes that last hook is the difference between safety pip and an actual pip, so some killers will be inclined to slug for it, sorry, we didn't make these rules, we just play by them.