Kwikwitted
Kwikwitted
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You can't fix people who just want to ruin it for everyone else sadly.
Unfortunately the game can't tell a player's intentions. It can't tell if they're trying to Kobe cause they want to escape or if they're trying to Kobe cause they want to die.
Really the only solution I could think of would be to remove Kobe entirely, and I'm sure survivors don't want that.
Maybe they could make two different commands? Press one button to attempt to escape the hook press another to just give up? At least that way the game knows, though I'm sure survivors who want to die will still just attempt to escape and when they fail, just shrug.
I do wish they would compensate the killer though for the loss of potential hook actions. You get devout emblem progress for disconnects but not for people who die on the first hook, now you're out two potential more hook actions which means you're probably staring at a safety pip at best.
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The issue isn't generator speed. The issue is map size. Hex: Ruin was a band-aid on the problem for a while but after it's rework the issue has become more prominent. Also when you remove Ruin, you remove really any incentive to directly hunt for totems, so survivors really have nothing to do now except get right on a generator. Add in on some maps it can take upwards of 50-60 seconds for a killer to walk from one corner of a map to another it's not shocking to imagine generators popping VERY quickly.
As a killer, your best bet is to make sure your perk builds maximize your killer's strengths. If you are high mobility and can utilize direct generator regression better than most killers, so for example Freddy or Hillbilly it may be worth it to run things like Thrilling Tremors and Pop goes the Weasel, as you can hit the priority generator before it pops more often than other killers. Killers who need setup time should be running Corrupt Intervention to force survivors closer to them and also protecting three generators furthest away for 2 minutes.
The best pressure a killer can exert right now is kill and hook pressure, you need to be downing and hooking as often as possible and maximizing your chase times to the best of your ability. It's very much a race in the current meta to get your hooks before they get all the generators and you should be approaching it as such, some targeted generator regression can help but don't let it distract you from your primary mission which is to get people on hooks, early, often, and always.
Another thing is don't immediately go for a pickup after a down, take a second, look for another survivor nearby, getting two survivors on hooks simultaneously is GLORIOUSLY powerful against a survivor team as the team is basically forced to attempt rescues at that point. Anytime you can turn one down into multiple, even if it's only having an extra person on the ground for a while, you're still forcing someone to go pick them up or burn their unbreakable.
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Truly a Claudette's ultimate fantasy.
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@Laffsclown said:
Killers that camp make this game no fun.
I don't understand why killers camp without penalty.
I don't understand tunneling all that much either but camping takes all the fun out of it I hate being camped right out of the gate and not getting to play a game I just waited 15 minutes for.
I don't understand doesn't this hurt game morale and doesn't it bother the devs that most people won't or have stopped playing cause of this.
Borrowed time is not a good enough counter measure and when you play with random it's chance they have it.
It look like devs wood look more into it I as a killer don't like to camp it's boring and in fair.
Jesus dude, literally copy paste from the last thread? That's just lazy.
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@JephKaplan said:
I'd like to point out that since Hex:Ruin was basically removed from existence the average game lasts about 5 minutes. If the survivors are doing gens then they are getting done in insanely fast time, if they are not doing gens and being idiots then they just die in the same amount of time, ever since ruin got nerfed there are no in between games its always the 2 far ends. The quote "just pressure gens" is almost as moronic and laughable as "we've done a pretty good job so far" you simply can not "pressure gens" while also chasing, downing and hooking survivors. In some games gens pop before you have even found someone, this is further proven in Otzdarva's video where a gen was done 27 seconds into the match. Its just insane that the devs don't see an issue with gen speed, and thats all the survivors need to do, its their only goal, with perks that speed up the repair and the new insane speed toolboxes "good games" are just not there, its always a steam roll either all 4 die really fast or 5 gens are done in 2 mins. In 1 of my games as Ghostface the survivors had 1 gen done i had 3 hooks and then in under 2 mins they did all other gens and managed to open the exit gate and escape. All of this happens in high ranks idk how it is in the lower ranks but in purple and red its just hell, its unfun for both sides. And matchmaking is a whole another topic as to why green ranks go against reds and purples. The solutions are to, revert Ruin to its original state, give the survivors a secondary objective or just change gen speed, because 4 gens in under 2 mins is just insane. Also if you are gonna leave a negative response or just be an idiot don't bother. I want to see what other players think both killer and survivor and i want a serious discussion.
Okay I'll try to be calm about this, cause you're clearly upset, and I have to assume I'm going to get some defensive response but here goes.
Just to get something out of the way, I was a rank 1 killer main before Ruin, I'm still a rank 1 killer after ruin. Ruin was something you didn't even see at red ranks because most red rank survivors can hit great skill checks quite regularly, so it wasn't quite the crutch for red ranks as it was for lower ranks.
So it begs the question, how on earth did those red rank killers survive without the crutch that was Hex: Ruin? The answer was "pressure" but not "gen pressure" because that doesn't exist. If you play your game around solely trying to defend generators you will lose that war of attrition eventually. These are the three types of pressure a killer can exert on survivors.
- Kill and Hook Pressure, continually downing survivors and getting them on hooks forces survivors to leave generators and unhook them. The higher this pressure, the farther generators slowdown.
- Direct Generator Regression, this involves going to priority generators and regressing them with perks like pop goes the weasel, goes hand in hand with pressure type 1.
- Injury Pressure, getting survivors injured so they decide to heal instead of doing generators, understandably a situational pressure at best.
The only pressure that is guaranteed to slow the game down is pressure type 1, kill pressure, you have to be downing and hooking survivors constantly. For some killers it's not even worth it to invest in generator perks because you won't have the ability to maximize them anyway, for them the only perks and builds should be designed around downing and hooking survivors as consistently as possible.
Something I learned when I started not bringing Ruin as I got to higher and higher ranks was that I came to the startling realization that I was not nearly as good at chases as I thought I was. By being carried by Ruin, I had gotten away with longer chases, over and over, now without Ruin (and really no help from it even if I did have it as I was now in red ranks) those longer chases were showing up as major disadvantages over and over. I had to improve, drastically, in my ability to chase effectively, give up bad chases, know when to slug, when to juggle, all those skills flowered because I gave up Ruin.
NOW, this is not me saying that Ruin wasn't useful, particularly as it covered up one of the most glaring issue with the game which is map size. Some maps are so effing huge for killers it is very much a losing proposition. Ormond, Disturbed Ward, Rotten Fields are great examples where no matter how much pressure you exert this map is going to be a tough win if the survivors play well. Ideally they should have waited to rework Ruin until these map issues were addressed but this is the game where it stands currently and if you want to succeed you will need to adapt.
Also that Otz video does show a generator go really fast, but it also shows him ending up with a 4k doesn't it?
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180221#Comment_1180221
Hey, me too!
OK, A fork in the path and I lost the killer! Surely I am safe choosing [Insert Path I chose]!
OH #########! I STUMBLED RIGHT INTO THE KILLER!!!!
Repeat until I am dead :D
To be fair as a killer main this scares the living hell out of us too. We usually only get the hit because you ran right into us scaring the living hell out of us and we hit M1 instinctively.
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@hellbeast said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180093#Comment_1180093
The problem of tryharding everytime(for me at least), is that most of the times I get potato or non coordinated survivors, then I have to play like you do, let them escape chases etc because getting 4k everytime is just as boring as 3 gens popping after your first chase
But see that's why I go into the game prepared for the worst, and you can very quickly tell if the survivors aren't very good. Failing to loop properly, dropping pallets then just running away from them for no reason, etc. Once that happens I can back off but at least I was prepared in case they were optimal.
Like the old saying goes. sic vis pacem para bellum, if you want peace, prepare for war.
@toxcitynacl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180093#Comment_1180093
Killers are colossal dicks no matter what.
Cool story bro, great contribution.
@[Deleted User] said:
Because it would put a target on players' backs and many killers would completely overreact and bring Knock Out, Ebonies, etc.. You go against SWF a lot more often than you think, you just don't notice it because many SWFs are just avwrage survivors talking about burritos during the game. And a lot of the times you think you went against a SWF, it was a solo squad.
This is VERY true which is why I think the only thing to do would be some level of compensation after the fact, letting killers know ahead of time either creates a more queue dodging, or as you said people will just start loading up for bear bringing Ebony Mori's, slugging builds, Iridescent Heads, etc.
I figured my suggestion to provide a safety net for the killer on the chance that they just stepped into a match with survivor team six would be the most fair solution. If the game isn't going to be balanced around SWF, that's fine, but people shouldn't be getting de-pipped for their trouble, a safety net in that case works fine cause if the killer happens to play well enough to pip there's nothing blocking them.
@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179656#Comment_1179656
Well you say actual balance like rank means anything. It's a fake mmr matchmaking tool. Ap it serves no real purpose and means nothing.
So letting people see the number that means nothing and then having them lobby dodge over that is indeed, something we want to avoid.
Lobby dodging over an arbitrary number is stupid and wastes time.
Them not "balancing" right, is another story. It's a 1v4 asymetrical game that is ever changing.
So I'd say queue times are more important than some false sense of balance based on "rank".
I actually blame BHVR's moronic rank reset system for this. Taking Rank 1 killers and survivors and dropping them to rank 10 every month very quickly caused many of them to stop bothering to climb back up again, and now you have red rank caliber killers and survivors all over the ranks because of either people not playing a particular month and dropping in rank, players intentionally de-pipping, etc.
I get that much of the killer player base for sure is not like me, I wanted to be in red ranks and I understood that it meant dealing with optimal survivors more often than not. There are plenty of people who just want chill and easier games, even if they are capable of playing very optimally.
I sometimes wonder if the answer would be an actual ranked mode, even better, similar to league of legends you could have rank solo/duo queue and ranked teamplay.
For killers that choose to opt-in for ranked teamplay they receive buffs to compensate for the increased communication since it's a given that it's there.
Obviously a glaring issue would be survivors in ranked solo/duo immediately linking skype or discord information to get an advantage, but I never said my solution is perfect lol.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180101#Comment_1180101
Yeah I agree. I can't believe he actually accuses all people that think Doc is fine of being Doctor mains, and that they use their own, biased statistics, and then continues stating that these 20+ people who hate Doc are objective statistics. Like what the actual hell?
Also, many people that I see on these forums that say they find Doctor unfun to go against even admit that they don't think he is op, just annoying to go against. And I definitely wouldn't mind if the devs tried to make some changes to Doc to make him less annoying for those people.
But using that for your own goal of getting Doctor nerfed to the ground is just ridiculous.
Had a conversation with another person on this forums about this a few days ago. I believe you participated as well regarding being able to "avoid" certain killers, and the question came up whether people would pick to avoid killers they found annoying, or killers that are considered by the community to be OP. As we went back and forth I realized that in a game like DBD where there is no demarcation between ranked and un-ranked play the player base would probably split down the middle. 50% would avoid killers they find annoying but not OP, and 50% would strictly avoid ones that the player base has decided are OP.
It's kind of like the bans you would see in league of legends in normal vs. solo/duo queue. Normal queue bans were all over the place since people didn't really care about winning and losing, they were usually just banning counter picks to the champion they were planning to play and practice with, and the overall game didn't really matter. In ranked players would either dodge or rage on someone who didn't ban the flavor of the month overpowered champions, and thus most of the time the bans were identical game after game.
Either way the point is clear that you can't use mob rule to determine balance in a game, it's just a recipe for disaster.
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@Oshi said:
I started to main Legion on red/purple ranks. Zero kills = 0 pip.
Ironically Legion can often save a game that most killer would de-pip due to his insane malicious and chaser scores. He's the king of meaningless hits and an excellent little bloodpoint machine.
The craziest is when you get a ruthless off of a 1k cause you had the other three on death hook and you scored a metric ton of hits. Particularly back when multiple stabs didn't immediately end your power.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179498#Comment_1179498
This is the one poll on the forum that has been made recently regarding which killer is the least fun to go against: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/134293/what-is-the-least-fun-killer-to-play-against/p1
Doctor is tied with Clown on the 4th place.
Just imagine every killer getting a nerf because they received more votes than the average killer on polls like that. Legion has the second place, just imagine if he would get another nerf, lol.
Yeah I figured a poll did exist, I was just pointing out old Murdle's misunderstanding of what "objective" and "true" mean when you don't list any evidence to back up a claim and then wanna spout off like your opinion is somehow superior to everyone else's strictly because you say it is or you say "well I talked to 20 people and they said this so I must be right" nonsense.
That poll is interesting cause it does illustrate that mob rule is not how to balance killers. As you said, Legion got second place clearly for his annoyance factor, which admittedly is still rather high, but as a viable killer the poor edgy gang is at the bottom of every tier list imaginable along with Bubba and Clown.
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@hellbeast said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179683#Comment_1179683
That compensation is actually a good idea, I don't personally dislike SWF, but I would like to know when I should play a tryhard build or my pallets be gone wraith build, since some matches in soloq are super easy and tryharding just makes it more boring
I never have that problem because i use a tryhard build all the time. I won't even deny it lol. When I made the conscious effort to hit rank 1 the first time I resigned myself that every game I played at that level would always be optimal survivors, so I just go into games expecting it. I enjoy playing against those types of players cause they make me better.
Now if I'm in a game and I've realized that the survivors are a little on the shall we say "potato" side, then I start easing off, pretend to "lose" them in chases, deliberately ignore guys on death hook to try and get everyone on death hook before taking anyone out, giving the last guy the hatch, etc. I'm still gonna win of course, I'm just not going to be a colossal dick about it if I'm clearly playing a couple baby survivors.
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I wrote a big long thread about this a while ago, but yes I'm in total agreement that the emblem system is complete and utterly unfair to killer in multiple ways.
Just gonna copypasta rather than type it out again.
(Quote starts here)
Can we PLEASE do something where killers get credit for 3 hooks if survivors:
1) Kill themselves on the hooks.
2) Disconnect.
Over and over the same nonsense, easily playing well enough to ruthless, gens haven't been flying, good pressure, lots of downs, two dead. Problem is the Nancy raged when she got hit through a pallet so she killed herself on the second hook and the baby Dwight just randomly raged on the first hook or maybe he's a baby so he doesn't realize that's a dumb idea. So either way now I've got two survivors dead with only 3 hook actions through no fault of my own, I didn't camp them, I didn't tunnel them, I did literally nothing but play the game. So now I go after the big booty Jane cause it is my duty to chase that booty (yes I love and hate myself for this, fight me bro) and down her, of course now she rages and disconnects so the fourth player gets the hatch. GG, you played well enough to easily win, here's a brutal killer for your trouble cause your devotion and malicious scores are in the toilet.
And this is hardly the only problem with the ridiculous emblem system. Gatekeeper is a complete joke with current generator speeds. Apparently a Trapper or Hag isn't supposed to trap and area and defend a 3-4 gen, they're supposed to defend that one gen on the other side of the map cause otherwise here comes the bronze/silver "gatekeeper" even if you do get a 4k.
Malicious penalizes the killer when survivors heal, are you actually serious right now? Seriously? There are times as a killer you HAVE to let survivors go heal in order to pressure gens. Can this ridiculous system please take into account that sometimes I'm going to have to intentionally let someone go heal themselves in order to actually stop the other three of opening the gates? Please?
Devout as I've said is a joke, 9 hooks for iridescent that doesn't take into account if survivors kill themselves on hook or disconnect, screwing killers just cause survivors throw a tantrum and don't want to play a game out. Technically a 2k is a draw right? Shouldn't 7 hook actions be a win for me in that regard then? It's over 50% of the max?
Chaser is the one that's probably least screwed up and seems to be usually relatively accurate though I'm sure others who are smarter than me can attest to this one better than I.
Now, if my drill sergeants in basic did anything, they drilled into our heads "don't come to us with only a problem, come with a potential solution" so here they are.
Gatekeeper - Eliminate the per generator score generation, it's moronic because some killers just can't defend seven generators simultaneously. Instead make it actually how it sounds, how long did it take for survivors to complete generators and open the exit gates. This would stop penalizing 3-4 generator strategies and stop needlessly punishing killers who need to play with area control in order to be effective.
Malicious - Remove the healing penalty, again, it's part of the strategic nature of managing four survivors as a killer, there is plenty of time letting one player run to the corner of the map where there are no generators to heal while I deal his three friends all doing generators. Besides in keeping with the lore, assuming these killers and the entity are sadists, wouldn't you want them to heal so you could injure them all over again?
Devout - This is the biggest one, if a survivor kills themselves on hook or at the very least disconnects, the killer gets credit for three hooks from that survivor automatically. This removes some of the power survivors have in screwing over killers trying to pip. To counterbalance this you could double the struggle time on second hook or even double the time on first hook to struggle hook in order to dissuade camping for a free 3 hooks off one hook, no killer in his right mind except Bubba (and he's not in his right mind, let's be real) is going to sit there for four minutes and even if they do, the survivors will be waving at the exit gates long before that timer is over. Multiple hooks still put survivors in struggle and death hook respectively so you aren't penalizing killers to hook multiple times.
Ok rant over, I get it, this game isn't competitive, but there is nothing more frustrating that trying to win only to get screwed because the other people you play with in a PVP decided to cry, take their ball and go home.
(End Quote)
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No you're hardly alone, I can't loop a killer to save my life.
I think the biggest thing is I'm really bad at looking behind me when I try to loop, so I lose track of where the killer is and fail to double back or change direction in time every time.
It's pretty embarrassing for someone who actually takes a twisted pride in being a rank 1 killer.
You know if you think about it though sometimes it's almost you giving back to the universe in a way, you know the struggle killers go through sometimes, just think that your potato tendencies as survivor probably made some killer's game a lot more productive and fun.
Silver linings man! Silver linings.
Also completely unrelated and I can't imagine I say this often, but that is one cute potato.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179711#Comment_1179711
No. Because as you said before "Also it might help you to try this thing called current events context there herp a derp, it's not like I can go to work right now thanks to our newest gift from across the ocean."
You are wasting your time just as much right now as what you're criticizing by sitting here and typing about pointless things.
It's either not fine because they need to get a life or it's fine because there isn't much else to do right now. Either way the same would apply to you. Because you are also wasting time. And when I hear "get a life" over a game, it's typically because somebody plays too much. Am I missing anything else?
I'm aware that I'm wasting time on a video game forum, I'm not claiming I'm "living" it, that's the difference.
Also, based on that statement, it doesn't sound like this person just started "living" this video game over the past two weeks, given her claims of thousands of hours played. You're trying to create a false equivalency. The difference is when I go back to work my time on these forums will most likely severely reduce and end, and I won't particularly care cause I"m perfectly aware it's just frivolous wasting time on a keyboard typing about a video game. Meanwhile LALYTHIA is apparently still going to be "living" a video game where serial killers hunt people, which is a whole different can of worms.
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@hex_genrush said:
I see a lot of frustration sometimes with survivor and when I’m playing with some friends when the killer will bloodlust you at a mind game able pallet so I was thinking maybe on how to rework bloodlust. I was thinking maybe as the trial goes the killer gets bloodlust as more gens pop or you gain a tier of bloodlust every time you break a pallet.
As someone who already uses Brutal Strength quite routinely, I approve this message lol.
In all seriousness if a killer is using bloodlust to finally hit through at a mind game pallet he's wasting enough time you guys should be able to punish him anyway. Also as a survivor part of being an effective looper is knowing when it's time to leave a loop and go for the next obstacle to ideally not run into this scenario.
Honestly I don't know how you change it without making it a bigger issue than it is, and it still goes away on hit or stun.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179701#Comment_1179701
I never claimed that you claimed you were "living" a video game. Maybe check the contents of my comment next time.
Also if there's not much to do right now other than wasting time, then it also just makes what you said before to the other person about "getting a life" seem even more asinine. I think my point is pretty clear.
/facepalm.
Exact quote from LALYTHIA
"I literally live this terrible game play every day. "
I was responding to that, exact statement which was so ridiculously melodramatic and nonsensical that the only rationale advice I could give someone who says something that detached from reality is "get a life".
Does it make sense now?
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@rita_book said:
BBQ and Chili is completely out of hand and overpowered. I am going endless waves of matches against killers ALL of whom take it. THEN, survivors getting lucky if we even get ONE generator down.
The reading aura portion of the perk is absurd and should be removed. The aura reading after a hook creates a snow ball effect for the next hook, eventually leading to a win for the killer.
It is also completely unaballanced. One perk should not instantly lead to 4 kills and zero generators.
Now you're resurrecting your own bait? Well that's just lazy.
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@finitethrills said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179690#Comment_1179690
I think you're responding to my response to the other poster. He seemed to be arguing that matching 2k hour Survivors with 2k hour killers is a nearly guaranteed loss for the killer, and that it's somehow better if 2k hour killers go up against much less skilled Survivors (which I guess is technically true in one sense).
It seems really weird to me that a lot of people are playing a pvp game and look down on the other side for playing to win, or just want to play a game with no real challenge. That's kinda the whole point of pvp vs party games.
Yeah I didn't follow the context, my bad lol. Just proves this insomnia is really wrecking me.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179672#Comment_1179672
You're sitting here wasting time typing on a forum after telling somebody to get a life. Just saying.
I've been dealing with the exact same stuff today, since I've been grinding out survivor challenges and I play almost exclusively solo. Had a Claudette come over to me, injured, while I was slugged (and hiding) at 95% recovery, tap me barely enough to give me 1-2% more, and then keep running with a Legion right on her tail. Obviously she goes down, and lucky for me, she had found time to ruin my hiding spot and get me hooked.
So yea, having bad team mates and getting overly focused by the killer is pretty rough. The only thing I can really say is that if you're lower rank it gets really easy to pip, as long as you do very minimal things, like work a little on a generator, unhook maybe 1 or 2 people, and get chased a little by the killer. At that point, if you can manage to pip little by little you'll at least have to suffer through nooby team mates slightly less. There still are bad team mates at higher ranks but it's not practically everyone at that point.
I wasn't the one claiming I was "living" a video game. Maybe check what I was responding to next time.
Also it might help you to try this thing called current events context there herp a derp, it's not like I can go to work right now thanks to our newest gift from across the ocean. "Wasting time" is about all I can do right now, not a whole lot else to do at the moment at 4:15 in the morning anyway, least of which for a guy who normally works third shift.
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@Moox said:
As of now, the Shrine Of Secret perks are randomly chosen (usually) and because of that some perks are commonly selected while others are rarely chosen. I suggest that players should be able to vote for perks to appear in the Shrine Of Secrets. Of course, the number of times a perk can be selected in a short period of time would be limited, but I think it could help newer players get the perks they want faster without having to pay for the DLC's and leveling up the characters. Obtaining perks can be especially annoying if you only want a specific perk from a character but still have to level them up fully to get it.
Not to state the obvious, but why would a company, any company, not just BHVR, want you to get a perk for free that they could have instead gotten five bucks out of you for?
They want newer players to pay for DLC, that's part of the business model. Holding perks behind a paywall is another one.
I'm not gonna go so far as claim DBD is pay to win, but getting players to buy killers/survivors for key perks is part of the sustainability of the game.
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@finitethrills said:
So we as killers what? Depend on only being matched with noobs to win?
It's not as bleak as all that. You can beat red rank survivors, it just won't be as easy as crushing noobs.
There are killers who play in red ranks everyday, if I can do it, you certainly can too. The game isn't so survivor-sided that getting to top ranks as killer is impossible in the slightest. Even optimal survivors make mistakes, more often than you would think either out of laziness or just plain bad moves. It just takes practice and understanding the loops and the tiles and how to run them as optimally as you can.
Will you win everytime? No, and optimal survivors and teams will sometimes really make you lose your mind, but to use another league reference your goal is to win 2 games out of 3, which will keep moving in the right direction.
Analyze your play, try to pick up something new every game and try to eliminate one mistake every game, whether that's doing a chase from the wrong direction, committing to one survivor for too long, whatever it is.
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@hellbeast said:
Since the game can’t be balanced for SWF since it would destroy the game even more for soloq, why not give the option for killers to just dodge the Que when they don’t feel like playing against seal team 6 or something like that?
Because what killer in his right mind is going to choose to play against them?
So now SWF is an insanely long queue until you get a killer either dumb enough or masochistic enough to deal with them.
SWF as much as people don't want to admit it (and this coming from a HEAVY killer main) is what keeps this game going. It makes the game a viable option for streamers letting them play with subscribers, and overall it gives the game more life as a multi-player or cooperative experience.
Does that suck for killers? Yes, yes it does, but it's also not always the end of the world. SWF's still have to be optimal survivors to actually win, it's not an auto-win scenario.
Now I would like to see some kind of compensation go to the killer for dealing with SWF, either more BP, a lower threshold for safety pipping, or even removing the chance to de-pip at all would do the trick. Obviously it wouldn't let you know until after the match but it would be a nice compensation for those times where an optimal SWF team really kicks your teeth in.
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@finitethrills said:
Never understood why matchmaking doesn't at least use hours played in its factoring. Won't make much difference with smurfs, but would have helped a lot in the days of r1a deranking to kick in the teeth of fairly new players. Current matchmaking just sets that up on its own without even worrying about deranking now.
Think the issue is more the ridiculous rank reset system that BHVR invented, where Rank 1's would go back to Rank 10 every single month. From what I remember this was because back then they needed to bring everyone closer in rank otherwise queues would go crazy.
Problem is eventually many of them just stopped bothering to climb back and enjoy bashing in players well below their skill level, or having chill games.
The only problem with using hours played is unless it can explicitly tell survivor and killer hours you might end up with a new killer player getting stuck with rank 1 survivors cause they happen to be a rank 1 survivor main themselves.
Kinda reminds me of the league of legends days where you would see people with tens of thousands of matches but only Bronze 3 or something.
TL: DR Hours played =/= Indicator of Skill.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179654#Comment_1179654
🤣🤣🤣 Bye Felicia.
Huh, didn't know someone old enough to know that reference would be this ranty on a video game forum.
Learn something new everyday.
Having fun "living" this terrible game, which if true is really, really sad.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179619#Comment_1179619
No, you are spreading blatant falsehoods, I have 1600+ hours in this game and have played killer and survivor.
I am going to assume you have never played a random match of solo survivor - which is the scenario the OP is posting about. Three solo survivors with one on the hook will not pop three gens at once. It wont happen. SOMEONE is going to go for an off-hook. Without comms, probably more than one.
Assuming only one person goes to attempt the off hook or assess the situation, that's half a team not on generators. So no, three people on three separate gens, working from the moment a person gets hooked, is not realistic and happens almost never in random matches. Not because there's anything wrong with them and their ability to play the game well, but because Altruism is a survivor objective, it's not always apparent someone is being camped until you get to them, and you don't always have an indication of who is going in for an off-hook in random groups - which are most common when playing solo.
Even so, if the killer is camping their first hook and they aren't completely braindead, you probably still have a generator or two to go, depending on how quickly the killer hooked survivor 1...so the killer has ample time to find and chase down another survivor and lather, rinse, repeat. That's IF an altruistic survivor doesn't make a last ditch effort to save the poor hooked survivor before they die without really having an opportunity to play the game...which often happens to that person's own peril. Even if the off-hook is successful there's a number of risks that can equate to one or both players being downed (slugged and the off-hook tunneled, for example). This is called empathy. And while it may not be the most strategic play for yourself, personally, in this situation - it's the human choice and in line with survivor objectives.
If the other two survivors have tried to off-hook either player and taken hits...chased around anything...etc., all of this equates to enough pts for a killer to hit 20k and PIP after the second death. Unless the killer is just a real potato and missed opportunities to increase pts whilst making sure his hook is "defended".
I know exactly what Killer emblems are. They are the objectives killers routinely ignore to fulfill the only one they care about - Devout. Which is not based solely on hooks, it's also based on sacrifices, and kills. In this scenario, the killer would reach Silver, assuming they did nothing else after the second person died. But we all know someone bad enough to utilize this play style has NOED...and since all the remaining survivors had to hyper focus gens...that totem still exists. 🙄
I literally live this terrible game play every day. You don't need to try and lecture me about how its petulant to completely empathize with someone who has had the same experience.
Yeah your'e just angry and ranting so not worth my time.
Also if you really "live" a terrible game, you should get a life
Toodles.
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@Andy111777 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1178566#Comment_1178566
Actually I don't watch Tofu. Not every build out there is made by a streamer or youtuber you know :)
Timing was little impeccable since he literally came out with a video either today or yesterday describing the same perk setup. Didn't mean to offend or anything.
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@Murdle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179498#Comment_1179498
You're acting like "true" and "objective" are big boi words that you only learn in college. Maybe for you, I guess.
I don't see the point of your salty reply though. Apparently you didn't even read my reply properly even though you put it in quotes word for word.
1. I didn't say they were my close friends or anything nor did I say that I coached them to say anything about the doctor first. It's objective cause they were still strangers cause I literally met them in dbd and on the same day they initiated the conversation of how they wish the doctor would get nerfed.
2. You're rank 1 killer well good for you. Why are you even here with the amount of bias you have?
3. If you wanna argue your point like for example if you don't think doctor needs a nerf, explain why. You don't have to go for the "I'm gonna be toxic and salty and not really say anything of value" gimmick
I mean they're not big boi words, at least I don't think so, but since you can't use them correctly maybe they're beyond your reach I guess? I don't really know, and what's with the "college" remark? I learned what those words meant in high school guy, maybe you should have too?
The point of my reply was stop treating your opinion based on some supposed contributions from 20 total strangers as some kind of objective evidence to support your claim, cause that's not how ANYTHING works.
Watch this is how easy it is to do what you did.
"Well I talked to 30 of my friends and they all said Doctor was totally underpowered and desperately needed a buff, and since 30 of my friends said I must be right"
Anyone can make up that kind of crap, there's no way to verify, there's no way to test the data, it's not objective, it's literally your word the event even happened, so again, stop treating it like it's gospel and learn the difference between your opinion and what an objective fact is.
Now onto the other part that went completely over your head.
When you say something like this:
"Some of my friends are also strong killer mains so take that information how you will."
That's an appeal to authority fallacy. In other words those players are good at killer so they must be telling the truth about what killers needed nerfs and buffs. First off just cause someone is a killer main doesn't mean they know anything about Doctor, particularly considering pre-rework he was very underplayed, and second off, just cause they're killer mains doesn't make their opinion automatically valid on any topic anyway.
So I pointed out this by making my own nonsensical appeal to authority statement.
"Well I'm a rank 1 killer main and I say Doctor needed a QoL buff forever, his stance dancing was clunky at the very least, so "take that information how you will""
My statement is just as fallacious, just because I'm rank 1 doesn't give my opinion any more weight than anyone else's, the difference was I wasn't under the delusion that my opinion was anything other than AN OPINION. Your passing off your friends who are killer mains opinions as fact, which is incorrect.
You are dense man, like this shouldn't have been that hard to grasp unless you're 12 or something.
Also this statement makes no sense.
"You're rank 1 killer well good for you. Why are you even here with the amount of bias you have?"
Um, by this logic wouldn't your killer main buddies opinions also be incredibly bias? Since it seems in your opinion the only pre-requisite for automatic bias is being skilled at killer?
"3. If you wanna argue your point like for example if you don't think doctor needs a nerf, explain why. You don't have to go for the "I'm gonna be toxic and salty and not really say anything of value" gimmick"
I said plenty of value,the fact that you're too dense to get it isn't my problem. I encapsulated the whole thing in this statement:
Stop pretending your opinion is fact, it isn't, it's opinion just like mine and everyone else in this forum. You don't get some kind of extra authority over people claiming your opinion is "fact" or "true" you just come off looking like an idiot.
Your welcome.
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@Steve0333 said:
How is that stacking the deck? You just played against bad survivors with a decent killer. Stacking the deck would be bringing an ebony mori with all the strongest add ons and then tunneling the first hooked survivor to immediately get them out of the game.
You could have played the weakest killer and probably would have still demolished them without even trying that hard. It's because the matchmaking in this is so non existent. One game you'll get all rank 1s sweat squads, next game rank 15s.
So first off, it's a story bro, not that serious, I'm not actually that broken up about the whole scenario, this was more for a fun and entertaining read.
Second, Freddy isn't just decent, even as a killer main I would concede he is by far the best bang for your buck in terms of reward vs. effort as a killer in the entire game. At least spirit has to employ reads and listen for sounds, nurse has to be on point with blinks, and Billy has to back rev or learn to drift king. Freddy can drop traps literally on the run to end a loop insanely quickly, has a lot of built in slowdown, especially with the build I described. Add in the fact that I had a map offering for the most killer-sided map in the game (again, coming from a killer main) and it becomes pretty insurmountable for all but the sweatiest of tryhard optimal survivors.
Even though I was planning to demolish them I wasn't going to be a total douche and screw people out of points, especially during a bloodhunt, so a Mori was definitely out of the question, besides can't bring a Mori and a map offering, and the map offering was way more important.
I agree the matchmaking is pretty bad sometimes, but I was just expecting another sweaty tryhard crew and demolishing them I wouldn't have felt bad about it, but the green and purple survivors in particular basically walked into a buzzsaw so I did feel a little rough about it.
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I would dare say Nurse is not S tier herself anymore, at least way less people are playing her as it's just become such a quality of life nightmare playing stun simulator 5000. She may still mechanically have the capability but she is such a pain to play now. I guess keep her in S tier for those that are willing to put up with the headache.
As others have said, I can't take this seriously if you're putting Freddy in B tier, I mean I play Freddy often and hes is probably the strongest killer in the game right now at least in terms of effort vs. reward. Spirit and Billy need to be up on S tier as well. They are the killers who are viable on every map which is critical.
A tier should have Doctor, Ghostface, Oni, and Huntress. All are more than capable of dominating a game but they all have one or two weaknesses that put them slightly below the optimal guys.
B tier would be Wraith, Hag, Pig, Myers, and Trapper. All can be good in many situations but all have some weakness whether it be setup times (Hag, Trapper, and Myers) Addon dependence (Wraith) or power not generating enough pressure (Pig).
C tier would have Deathslinger, Plague, and Demogorgon. Deathslinger is worse huntress, Plague is just always going to be mid-tier until they rework it so she gets a pool of devotion no matter what, and Demo just really doesn't fit a niche right now with his portal setup times, you could move him to B tier though due to his good chase potential and ending loops quickly with shred.
D tier just has Bubba, Clown, and Legion for obvious reasons.
So to recap:
S Tier - Nurse, Spirit, Freddy, Hillbilly
A Tier: Doctor, Ghostface, Oni, and Huntress
B Tier: Wraith, Pig, Myers, Hag, and Trapper
C Tier: Deathslinger, Plague, Demogorgon
D Tier: Bubba, Clown, Legion.
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@LALYTHIA said:
I feel you @Nikkiwhat. Killers camping and circling right back to the hook is infuriating when you just want to play the game. Its a rampant issue. Killer's don't want to hunt anymore. They will tell you that their hot camp and tunnel is justified because your teammate shouldnt have been seen off-hooking you, but it's hard not to be seen if the killer never leaves the hook to do anything else. Its frustrating for everyone. And regardless of what ppl say, they are rewarded for it. Because while they're camping and scaring off survivors trying to save - less gens are getting done. The likelihood they will get at least 2 kills this way is extremely high. If they simply spend the rest of the match pursuing the remaining survivors they will have 20k pts easy and likely a PIP. So you are right. There's nothing thwarting this behavior when you're playing with random survivors who are timid, uncoordinated, and not overtly altruistic/prepared to deal with toxic game play. A bad team almost feels worse than a bad killer and the compounded effect makes you want to pull your hair out...or at least play a different game. LOL You are right to feel this is undue "punishment" because there is no recourse. If a killer face camps you, there's nothing you personally can do to "gitgud" and save yourself on a hook. You just get to hang there, annoyed, with your game ruined and probably a depip. And that ######### will probably PIP. This is toxic bullshit that has resulted in so many DCs. You are not alone in feeling this way. Gotta squad up these days or the game is just insufferable. 🤷
Objectively wrong, and can be disproved by the video linked in this very thread.
Look, based on your assumptions, I'm going to assume you're a new player, so I'm going to try and be even handed about this, but a lot of what you are saying is just objectively incorrect.
Camping, assuming the other survivors aren't potatoes, will result in generators getting done with no pressure from the killer, meaning the survivors can literally knock out three at once in 80 seconds total if they are smart. As the video in this thread shows, by the time Adam was even to his struggle phase they had most of the generators completed due to no pressure on generators by the killer.
Second, I'm going to assume you've never played killer, spending the whole match camping one survivor to death and then even getting another kill is going to result in a paltry amount of BP, probably around 10k without enhancements, which is a pathetically low amount for killer who can get as much as 32k with a "perfect" game.
And I can DEFINITELY assure you that they will not pip using this tactic, guaranteed. Killers have four emblem rating mechanisms. Gatekeeper, Devout, Malicious, and Chaser. A camper will have a bad score in all four because.
Gatekeeper: Tracks how well you defended generators, except campers lose generators rapidly due to no pressure on the other survivors, leading to a bad emblem usually bronze or silver.
Devout - Based on number of hook actions. A camper is only getting 1 hook action per survivor if they camp, leading to again, a bronze or maybe even a non-emblem in this category.
Malicious - Based on number of survivor hits. If you are camping you aren't hitting anyone, another terrible emblem.
Chaser - Based on ending chases. Again if you are camping you aren't getting into chases at all, another terrible emblem.
I get the frustration of dealing with camping killers, really I do. But spreading blatant falsehoods just cause your salty just makes you look petulant and distracts from the main point.
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I mean there's definitely some community favorites.
I'll put my favorite, Jump Scare Myers
Addons: Scratched Mirror and Boyfriend's Memo
Map Offerings: For best results, Lery's make this a lot of fun, but The Game can also be serviceable.
Perks:
Play with Your Food is probably the only mandatory perk as it helps cut down on the speed issues.
Gameplay: You don't chase with this build, at all. You sneak, you skulk, you hide behind corners and use your aura reading to pop out and scare the living hell out of survivors. Best enjoyed on a replay if you happen to play against one of the thousands of streamers that play this game and watch them crap themselves.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179600#Comment_1179600
Yeah, but thats the main problem of that build. You need to get stunned and you need anothet perkslot for a perk, that gives questionablr value.
Yeah, that turned out to be the make or break issue I found, particularly because once survivor knew what was up they would never stun me again, just dropped pallets early as if I'm playing Clown or Doctor.
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@NursesBootie said:
I knew that "Dead Man's Switch" will be crap the second they announced it. It should trigger after every hook imo.
With Nemesis you can basically do that since it switches the obsession, but you have to also get stunned.
When I was running it I went with BBQ and Chili, Nemesis, Dead Man's Switch, and Enduring to limit the pallet stun.
Was a fun experiment, just didn't work out, so back to thrilling tremors it is.
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Have to admit, I find it to have the opposite effect, I enjoy playing the game against the entity to give him all the perks and addons I don't want while I try to maximize and get everything I do want.
A game within the game if you will.
I could definitely see it getting tiresome or tedious at times though.
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@Ghostwithaface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179567#Comment_1179567
Yeah it does sound like it might of been the team mates. With how eager they were for the save. Since they might of tip off the killer they were nearby. Making hanging around the hook a good idea or doing a loop around.
Unless it was just stare at the person until they die. Like in this video. Which would be a different case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWLf0ezuvNg
What's funny about that video is a couple things.
- Not trying to "blame the victim" here, but if that Adam has decisive strike either of the times he gets downed, that's a four escape.
- That Bubba didn't even know how to face camp, I would've thought that wasn't a skill that required brainpower. Learn something everyday.
But really this video shows exactly why face camping is such a bad strategy, they completed the generators easily, and really except for a minor mistake by the Adam trying to body block a hook he wasn't going to be able to reasonably stop, they should have gotten four escapes.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179574#Comment_1179574
Kwikwitted you’re coming off as rather aggressive in the nature of your post. I’m simply stating what happened and it seemed a little odd that as soon as NOED activated I was insta killed during 2nd stage. I hadn’t been lagging the whole game so it was oddly suspicious and easy to blame NOED. Look, My point is that struggle phases have not allowed me to actually struggle quite often. Whether it’s lag, the exact moments where hex totems were enabled, whatever. I am simply saying that the button mashing should be changed to pushing it once or holding it down. I’d much rather do that. It just has way more of a downside to it than an upside. I Can understand making you work harder to stay live being caught twice and all but I don’t think breaking your A button or space bar is the answer.
Best overreaction ever. I asked a question spazmatic, calm your jimmies, they look a little rustled.
For the record I have no problem with them changing the struggle mechanic on hook in the slightest, hell you can play bejeweled while you're up there for all I care (do people even still play bejeweled? God I'm old)
@NoShinyPony said:
Noed often causes a lag, like other insta-down effects, or Sloppy Butcher (Mangled status) or Franklin's (lose item) - there are so many perk effects that cause lags.
And yes, this lag can kill you on the hook while struggling.
It's not a Noed glitch, it's the usual lag problem which has been in the game for years.
Thank you, this answers my question, had absolutely no idea that insta-down effects or other effects caused this. That absolutely should be fixed and it's unfair for survivor to die on struggle hook just cause of a lag spike.
We're not on opposite sides here bud, but I think you have to understand that based on some of your post history, I wasn't sure if this wasn't some kind of poor "anti NOED" bait.
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Um, how is NOED responsible for this exactly?
NOED has no capacity to insta-kill anyone, in any circumstance, it doesn't have Mori capability.
As far as people dying on second hook as a glitch, that may be something for the devs to look into. Haven't seen it personally, but glitches aren't exactly foreign to this game.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179554#Comment_1179554
Thanks for the advice! I usually watch Ohtofu doing his game analysis vids where he critiques others play. I do need to learn tile running better too.
Quick question. Are scratchmarks not as bright as they used to be? On the new map and yamaoka especially they just don't show up hardly at all. It's really irritating to he honest.
Yeah I like OhTofu and Otz, even Tru's games can be very good to watch just in how they approach chases and manage a game. When to slug, when not to slug, etc.
As far as scratch marks, certain maps seem to reflect them differently.
Yamaoka in particular is kind of dark and the lack of a lot of walls leave few surfaces for them to show up on.
Unfortunately it's a tough map to follow survivors around on just with how many LOS breaks there are, you really wanna make sure your sound is as good as it can be and make sure to use headphones to pick up breathing, grunts of pain, etc.
You can track movement through the tall grass moving sometimes, similar to the corn movement, but this isn't always the case.
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@kreeper124 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179528#Comment_1179528
Once the timer reaches 0 it kills you, you don't have to try to escape for it to go off
Yes. I know. That wasn't the point of confusion.
The OP said this:
"Should the trap be remade to activate based on the next down instead of gens?"
Which I took to mean he wanted the trap to literally detonate on the next down or something, instead of just activating the timer.
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They don't get rewarded for it.
Unless you count way less BP and pretty much an automatic de-pip as a reward, which I don't think most people do.
What's weird is this is clearly the fault of the survivor teammates who played the unhooked situation in the dumbest way possible. No attempt at an unhook, doing it right in front of the killer, etc. But somehow you resort to blaming the killer? I'm a little confused.
I agree, face camping bites a big one, but outside of coming to every killer player's house and giving them a spanking if they do it I don't know what else you expect them to actually do.
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Wait so we have survivors who are mad that there are other survivors who are hogging cleansing totems in one game, and in all the other games apparently no one can cleanse totems and everyone dies to NOED so survivors ask for NOED to be nerfed or removed?
This can't be real.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179530#Comment_1179530
I respect the hell out of people who can play at that level and actually want to lol.
I don't know what will fix matchmaking. I know i need to git gudder. But the system we have now is just terrible
Oh make no mistake, the matchmaking is really bad, I think most people would agree with you, I just don't think blowing the whole system up would solve that issue.
The best advice I can give is to succeed as killer you have to be as good at chases as you possibly can be. This was a video that really put me from a semi-decent killer to a much better chaser.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8u0jRxN2kQ&t=748sJust treat each game right now as practice, try to find mistakes you make and correct them as you go, focus on each chase and what you can do to improve.
Best of luck as you go :)
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I never saw these bait memes until this forum, and I feel like I've missed out on so much.
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I mean as someone who plays at Rank 1 as killer, and just expects to end up against sweaty and optimal survivors, that would just be amazing, because I'm used to all red ranks each game, so if you're just gonna give me whatever comes down the pipe, first come first serve, my only thought is "FINALLY some chill games".
I don't think that's the way to fix the system though, even though I would personally benefit greatly.
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@maximizer12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179490#Comment_1179490
The literal in-game description for the trap states it'll activate when any gens are completed.
Yeah I was talking about them "going off" as in actually killing someone, not just activating the timer. Confusion in terms my good man.
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@Murdle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179464#Comment_1179464
That's definitely not biased coming from a doctor main.
By 95% of the community you mean 95% of people who play doctor or main killer, actually. All made up and biased statistics. It means nothing.
Here's something that's true and actually objective.
I met a lot of friends (well over 20 people) on dbd and some of us party up and play a few games everyday.
Nearly all of them have complained how the doctor is their least favorite killer to go up against, and that he needs a nerf.
Some of my friends are also strong killer mains so take that information how you will.
Here's another objective piece of information. I've looked at polls and or posted discussions and looking at all of the replies and votes, doctor is among one of the top 3 most hated killers to play against.
#1 being freddy.
I think he can use a nerf cause honestly.. The majority of survivors do not enjoy playing against him AT ALL.
"Here's something that's true and actually objective."
Please stop using words if you don't know what they mean, anecdotal evidence from a sample size of 20 people (who are your friends, and thus may be inclined to agree with you anyway) is not "objective" in any way, shape, or fashion.
Also "least favorite" and needs a nerf are two different things.
"Some of my friends are also strong killer mains so take that information how you will."
Oh nice appeal to authority. Well I'm a rank 1 killer main and I say Doctor needed a QoL buff forever, his stance dancing was clunky at the very least, so "take that information how you will".
"Here's another objective piece of information. I've looked at polls and or posted discussions and looking at all of the replies and votes, doctor is among one of the top 3 most hated killers to play against.
#1 being freddy."
Citation please.
Seriously, if you wanna argue an opinion go for it, but stop talking like your opinion is somehow "objective" or "true" when you have absolutely no clue what those words even mean.
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Um, the trap isn't based on generators at all, it only goes off if the survivor tries to leave through an exit gate with it on unless I'm mis-remembering something.
The trap isn't supposed to kill the survivors often as much as it's supposed to force a survivor to go deal with boxes for a while so the pig can focus on other survivors.
And yes people die from the power, but I find it comical that you refer to "camping the box" as somehow derogatory. If you realize a survivor needs a certain box to get their trap off you are absolutely, 100% within your rights to pitch a tent and watch that trap turn his jawbone upside down.
As far as tunneling, that would actually be the exact wrong thing to do against the guy with the trap on his head, considering that is one survivor who's priority isn't generators. Why focus him instead of the people who are focused on generators?
People need to stop throwing around the term "pressure" without actually thinking about what it means. The pig's traps aren't "pressure" they are just a way to slow down overall survivor progress by forcing however many survivors have traps on their heads to go deal with boxes instead of repairing generators. Meanwhile the pig uses that extra time to continue to hunt and down survivors who are still doing generators.
Also sorry but prestige means absolutely nothing other than you funneled a whole bunch of BP into a killer.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179377#Comment_1179377
Just because they are both garbage, doesnt mean one is literally better. I understand math. My point was that one perk was better.
And no, they dont need people to get annoyed with bad perks, every single perk should have value in game. If you have 4 main perks (BBQ, Pop, STBFL and Sloppy) that are simply always the best perks to run, you have a problem in balancing. There should be no 1 best build and you should have weaker perks amplifying other perks significantly enough to either run them as a good combo or has the potential to snowball late game. Not every perk should be maxed out, sure, but every perk should be a viable perk.
As for unrelenting and STBFL being related, they kinda are. One reduces misses and the other reduces hits. Sure STBFL is better because having 2 hits in quick succession is better than 1 miss and 1 hit in quick succession, but that doesnt take away that Unrelenting could have better numbers(at least 60%) to make it at least comparable to STBFL.
My biggest issue is that people here are complaining about everything, yet then say the complete opposite. Nerfing is fine when the gameplay is balanced, which it obviously isnt. Individually seen, camping and tunneling can only be countered with perks that killers complain about. Genrushing can only be countered by buffing things that survivors who never genrush already complain about. Basically, the only way to play the game as a survivor currently without being forced to depip, is to rush gens. If you dont rush gens, about 75% of killers will instantly punish that. So pre-emptively, almost 100% of survivors will rush the first 3 gens, either actively or accidentally, which causes the remaining 25% of the killers to be forced to play like the other 75%.
We basically have 2 power plays that is rampantly existant in the game, and a lack of viable perks is pretty much the reason for that. Survivors need a massive buff and killers need a massive buff, then some game mechanics need a massive buff, only then can things be changed that rushing gens isnt the first interest of survivors.
So I like how you just ignored the BBQ and Chili/Monstrous Shrine comparison, apparently we only have to be concerned with the less than optimal survivor perks do we.
Every perk already does have value in the game, and is viable. HEAD-ON is viable, it just isn't something you can use with no planning. Some perks just some have more value than others, this is how every game has worked in the history of gaming. There will always be optimal builds, perks, addons, loadouts, stat adjustments. Min/maxing is a thing across all gaming genres, it's just a natural thing. Trying to make every single perk viable or optimal is a fool's errand because people will always gravitate to the most effective, even if the second most effective is only off by a few percents.
And no, sorry, STBFL and Unrelenting are not related, one rewards a killer for smacking survivors that aren't their obsession, one is training wheels for survivors who can't land M1's. The idea should be.......not to miss your M1's. Unrelenting rewards bad habits which is why you never see it. And that's fine, we don't need to find some way to make unrelenting viable, particularly because unless you made it better than other perks to the point where people had to use it (and thus became OP) people are going to stick with what they know, love, and have used forever.
This is why I don't get mad at survivors for using meta perks. Decisive, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, Adrenaline, Dead Hard. These perks aren't used all the time because of anything else other than they are the most effective, so of course survivors will use them. If you choose to use less optimal perks, you are certainly allowed to make that choice, but the game isn't required to buff your choice perks just so you can feel optimal too.
"Genrushing can only be countered by buffing things that survivors who never genrush already complain about. Basically, the only way to play the game as a survivor currently without being forced to depip, is to rush gens. If you dont rush gens, about 75% of killers will instantly punish that. So pre-emptively, almost 100% of survivors will rush the first 3 gens, either actively or accidentally, which causes the remaining 25% of the killers to be forced to play like the other 75%."
So now we just veered off into a whole other topic. So let me start by blowing your mind.
I don't think generator speeds are the problem.....as a killer main.
I know right? Mind blown.
The problem is a combination of poor map design and the loss of old Hex: Ruin. Now I'll start by saying old Hex: Ruin was a crutch, and a band-aid on the problem which was some maps are so terribly designed they make the game an absolute nightmare for killers regardless of perk loadouts or addons. What SHOULD have happened is Hex: Ruin should have been reworked, but ONLY after the most egregious maps (Rotten Fields, Disturbed Ward, Ormond) had already been redone to be less ridiculous.
Ruin also served as the secondary objective for survivors. Most killers did not expect to see Ruin last longer than 2 minutes, if it did, then that was just a bonus. Ruin was a way to force survivors to look for totems, and thus not rush generators. Take away the threat of Ruin, and now survivors have no reason not to just plop down upon spawn and start banging out M1, and I don't blame them for that. Of course don't get mad if the killer is running NOED and you ignore totems, just sayin.
If you reduce map size you make it so killers can patrol generators more effectively, this slows down generator speeds, gives survivors more opportunities for earning points through chases and escapes as it will now be necessary for all survivors to participate to spread the aggro out enough to balance hooks with getting generators done.
The idea that perk change is going to help generator speeds is comical when a perk change is what landed us in this mess in the first place.
"We basically have 2 power plays that is rampantly existant in the game, and a lack of viable perks is pretty much the reason for that. Survivors need a massive buff and killers need a massive buff, then some game mechanics need a massive buff, only then can things be changed that rushing gens isnt the first interest of survivors."
Again no, what we need is maps that aren't designed like the developers were high at the time. Nobody has a problem with survivors prioritizing generators, they're supposed to, they just shouldn't be able to do it on maps that are so huge they don't know who the killer even is until the final generator is popping.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179260#Comment_1179260
That’s what I’ve always said. Give Thrilling the BP bonus instead and BBQ would die.
I would adore that, would free up a perk slot for me as I find myself unable to give up the double BP most of the time, particularly during a bloodhunt.
Though to be fair I'm finding myself liking Dead Man's Swtich more and more over thrilling tremors, though thrilling tremors at least works on it's own out of the box, dead man's switch really need Nemesis to be effective constantly.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179360#Comment_1179360
killer finds a survivor instead of just going ahead and hitting them what they would rather do is spend time walking behind them spamming a "go to sleep" power to finally be able to do anything to them.
The thing it, Freddy can put the survivor asleep no matter what. The killer cannot hit the survivor 100% of the time. This would make people leave the asleep survivor and they have to waste progress waking up.
Not to mention that at that point the survivor could neutralize the whole thing by failing a skill check or getting woken up by a teammate.
This is called "pressure", stalling the game.
Freddy had a very tunneling playstyle, because once you go through the hassle of putting someone to sleep you weren't about to let them get away, you were downing that person come hell or high water as you had already invested that much time into putting them to sleep, and then hitting them.
The thing is, you WERE going to let them go away, then you could put other survivors asleep and make them waste more time. You would only do chases you know you can best. Even if the chase does take a while you should be sleeping people in the progress, stalling the game further.
It's not "pressure" because focusing on putting ONE survivor at a time to sleep and then downing them is basically the typical DBD killer loop except with extra steps of "putting them to sleep" first.
As I said, you should be putting multiple survivors asleep at a time.
Pressure is obtained either through map mobility or ending loops quickly.
Yes, but stalling the game also counts as pressure. Old Freddy stalls the game like mad, making survivor action speed slow down, and forcing failed skill checks. Remember, failing skill checks IS slowdown.
He literally could not patrol a hook at all, even in situations where it was called for.
Throughout my many hours playing old Freddy, I barely had to patrol a hook. And if i did, that's 2 free sleeps and a chase. Hell. Yes.
Whatever you say dude, you've got your opinion, I've got mine, and mine has been backed up by other people in the thread.
For your sake I hope they give you a killer in the vein of Old Freddy someday, I'm pulling for ya. But no I don't think most people would like to see a Freddy revert considering right now he's one of maybe three or four killers that are viable at top ranks regardless of map.