This game isn't survivor sided and hasn't been for 3 years
I come on these forums unsurprised at what I see all the time. I swear that large majority of all posts are all the same thing: killers whining about SWF, gen speeds, survivor meta perks, etc. Also claims that the devs are survivor sided and that they don't care about the killer player base.
So, I figured I'd try to compile my evidence against such claims.
1. The pallet vacuum removal
2. The Exhaustion nerf
3. The DS Rework/Nerf
4. The Mettle of Man nerf, probably the most hard hitting nerf to the survivor meta in the game, ever.
5. The Balanced Landing nerf
6. The mere existence of the Spirit
7. The mere existence of Iridescent heads and how they still havent been nerfed in years.
8. The mere existence of literally wall hack add-ons such as Myer's Mirrors.
9. The nerfs to Medkits, toolboxes, and insta heals. Admittedly yes, instas were OP and toolboxes played a large part in gen rushing. But now, both are worthless.
10. The mere existence of the endgame collapse.
11. The mere existence of second chance perks like NOED.
12. The fact that bugs/glitches/exploits that benefit killers (i.e. Legion walking backwards after a survivor while their Deep Wound ticked down) don't get patched for months while ones that benefit survivors (i.e. when Wake Up buffed ALL speeds) get patched in a day.
13. The fact that the match runs off the killers connection. If there is even a SLIGHT drop in connection quality, the survivors feel it. I literally faced a Legion playing on a Wifi Hotspot some time ago. The worst lag I ever experienced. He said he didn't lag at all.
14. The fact that killers can get away scott free with holding the game hostage because they're scared of getting Decisive Striked/want their 4k/etc.
15. The double standard regarding DCing. Why is okay for a killer to DC from the map they don't like, and yet it's frowned upon when survivors DC bc, say, they don't want to face a particular killer?
16. The fact that camping and tunneling is considered strategic and yet, for example, jumping into a locker to force your DS isnt.
Comments
Ok, so now that you've made your list, let's check these off one by one.
Now that we're done with your list, I've got a couple to counter.
I won't pretend survivors haven't seen nerfs occasionally but to pretend this game isn't survivor-sided is just delusional.
1. This was unfair and abused, especially back when pallets could spawn within 10m of each other.
2. Yeh this was a nerf, but showing the current meta, a needed one.
3. Again, looking at the meta, a needed nerf.
4. Was hit too hard personally, but was one of the strongest perks in the game prior.
5. Nerfed due to an infinite loop that all killers except clown or doc could stop.
6. A killer that takes alot of practice to learn, similar to Nurse, however is easier (although not as good).
7. Yeh these need a nerf, anyone else who argues clearly hasn't seen a decent Huntress use them.
8. Mirror Myers causes him to be very slow, and has no lunge what so ever, you should be able to loop him forever once you get into a chase.
9. Everything you've said here is right.
10. Made just so survivors wouldn't take hostage of the game and camp in corners of the map.
11. Noed is the only killer second chance perk, maybe spirit fury, but that takes atleast a bit of work to get.
12. Legions bug was patched within the same PTB, also could argue that the DS doc bug was fixed within a week while noises for killers have been bugged for months.
13. You play Xbox then???
14. If you're talking about slugging then that's not holding the game hostage.
15. I hate killers that DC unless they've got a reason. Same with my team.
16. I believe this is because camping and tunneling isn't abusing anything, weather it's a perk or power, while running into a locker gives the killer two choices. Leave or eat the DS.
Devs have evidently made changes to nerf survivors since the start of the game.
Any killer “nerfs” have been for the health of the game. Spirit having collision and Prayer Beads changed was a necessity.
Meanwhile, other killers have gotten much needed reworks (Freddy) and buffs to the point where they’re just downright annoying (Doctor).
Playing killer is as easy as ever, even with the Ruin rework. Killing 2-3 survivors, even when it’s SWF, is not difficult at all.
background
First of all, the majority of Dead by Daylight players are survivor players. If you come on these Forums, you'll most likely see the big divide between Killer and Survivor players on core issues of this game.
Since Survivor players constitute a majority, it would make sense to balance the game around them, especially since killer players have drastically different opinions. Making both sides happy is virtually impossible.
evidence
beta version
perks and add-ons
Sabotaging Hooks
Brand New Parts
Assets and God Loops
Decisive Strike
Balanced Landing
We'll Make It and Self Care combo
Flashlights
pallets
Double Pallets and Loop Length
Pallet Vacuum
Gen Speed
Ruin Nerf
disconnecting
connection
killer-specific
Game-breaking bugs
Playing killer is easier than ever, which is why killer numbers have dwindled to the point where rank 10's are matched up against rank 1's.
Gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8.
Maybe you’re just a bad killer? I average 3-4 kills every game. Only when I get a combination of a killer I’m not used to playing and a bad maps with loads of pallets do I have more than 2 escape on me.
(Ignoring key games)
Yeah Top Kek there bud, you so got me.
My Killer Screen.pngI like how now you backpedal with "bad maps with loads of pallets" and "ignoring key games". Sure.
Didn't even address my point, if the killer population was even a 1/4th of the survivors you wouldn't have rank 10's playing against rank 1's. This happens due to many killers not wanting to put up with 1-2 generators popping after the first chase anymore, and games just aren't fun when you have to tryhard all the time. For some crazy reason I enjoy it but I go into every killer game knowing I'm going to have to try my sweaty balls off otherwise I'm gonna get demolished and I like that personally, but I sure as hell am not delusional enough to pretend this wasn't a lot easier before the Ruin nerf, particularly for any trap killers.
PREACH! The only thing you forgot to mention is the fact that Freddy exists and he's insanely OP and the devs are fine with it and refuse to nerf him despite the fact they've shown statistics where he has a nearly 4k average.
Quit the childish responses and calling me “bud”. I’m here for a discussion.
Corrupt Intervention is almost a necessity on trap killers, unfortunately. But once you’re set up it’s super difficult for survivors to make it out alive.
I don’t have to sweat each game. Even most SWF teams are potatoes. People have to get over the mentality that you need to have like 3 hooks before a gen pops. The game isn’t designed for killers to win the early game.
To your point about Rank 10 Killers going against red ranks: This is happening because killer players that wound up in red ranks can’t handle better survivors decide to quit/derank instead of trying to improve.
the game started off very heavily survivor sided and it still is quite heavily survivor sided. Ideally survivors should be about 1/4 the power of the killer at their top, this is obviously not the case as survivors can run killers almost indefinitely, and this is compounded by the fact that 4 heads are better than one and the killer cannot chase all 4 survivors at once.
Stating buffs and nerfs is absolutely irrelevant. What is relevant is the amount of power killers have vs survivors, and the favor is objectively towards survivor. The devs have explicitly stated that the gameplay is tailored to low level players. At low levels, killers are extremely strong and survivors extremely weak.
This is not an opinion at all, it is an actual fact. The best survivors will win 99 times out of 100 against the best killers. There is absolutely nothing a killer can do against a hit squad of good survivors. The only 'balance' this game has is that since survivor is so easy to play and rank up, you get a massive amount of survivors with an inflated rank combined with good survivors of also the same rank and the killer can exploit the weaknesses of the 1-3 weak survivors to kill the good survivor.
The game was survivor sided for 3 years. Only recently did it become more balanced for both sides.
Everyone that REALLY bought the game when it was released like me, knows very well that what you are saying it's not true. The game is and was survivor sided from the start. And the fact that for example that windows didn't block after 3 jumps before doesn't mean that is a killer side change at all.
In fact doing 3 jumps in a windows it is still too much, and having to equip bamboozle its a must with most killer because of this. If you don't have this perk you can be easily looped with double windows and plenty of jungle gyms that still exist in the game.
And with almost every patch and survivor, they release more second chance perks that gives survivor more power. Saying that the game isn't survivor sided is nuts. But i guess there is people of every kind in the world.
Also for getting killers buffs and we need them asap with the weakest killers they take years to do something, while if it is a matter of survivors they do it almost instant.
Oh I'm sorry was this you?
"Maybe you’re just a bad killer?"
Sorry I just thought a stupid childish question warranted a childish response.
And for a guy claiming to be here for a "discussion" you pretty much do nothing but spout anecdotal nonsense.
Corrupt intervention is a poor replacement for ruin, being only 120 seconds many survivors will just hide and wait it out because if the killer doesn't get any hits or downs in those first two mins then the perk has become effectively useless and done nothing except artificially boost the killer's gatekeeper score.
Also if going against a trap based killers, survivors immediately know the three generators that were blocked with corrupt are exactly where the killer WON'T have setup traps at, meaning survivors will get those three generators likely for free, and only then start breaching the trap perimeter for the last two, at which point they are at a severe advantage.
Now onto your crowing about how good you are.
Because you claim hyperbolic nonsense like "I don't have to sweat each game" doesn't mean anything. And sorry but I'm not buying you get SWF teams that are potatoes unless you're actually playing at green and yellow ranks. At red ranks I do have to sweat each game because I will almost assuredly run into optimal survivors, and often optimal teams. Maybe pass some of those potatoes you found, I could use a couple chill games.
And no, my point about rank 10 killers was not only are they going against rank 1's and other red ranks, they are getting destroyed by them, often. If these were former rank 1's, they wouldn't be getting destroyed by red rank survivors. And by this logic, if a killer already made it to red rank, didn't they already prove they could handle "better survivors" already and would have no need to rank down?
Sorry, at this point you sound like a false flag survivor main who thinks just saying "lol killer so ez" is actually winning an argument, it's not.
Literally the post above this one when scrolling in the forums is how a guy maintains rank one without ever doing any gens...
Lol
Everything you wrote is fundamentally wrong if you have a basic understanding of base game mechanics you'll know its survivor sided.
I played SWF last night for the first time in 3+ years. We played against killers ranging from 6-20 and destroyed almost all of them. We had two great players and two good players in our party most of the night and it wasn't fair or even close most of the time and the lower rank (6) meant nothing except more unhooking bloodpoints. Except for one time, we always escaped and we never were toxic to the killer.
This is why the game is not balanced and why it will never be balanced. Communication between survivors is a huge advantage and you can't perk that out unless it's known upfront. You can't expect killers to be fair or balanced either in the anticipation that there are solo players in the match, which is how I normally play.
For years BHVR and everyone on the various social media platforms have been coming up with ways to fix the game and to-date, nothing has worked and nothing will work until you separate the modes with Solos/Duos/Quads.
Mate? your opinion is as silly as a god Trumps Agenda.
ugh this is gonna be one of those "who can post the longer list of nerfs for side X" threats -.-
sigh
Seeing as atleast 3 people already did the long answers i will exclude myself from this...
But fyi i would say that recently it's... kinda in the middle? Maybe kinda going for survivor side but yeah.
I remember the two lists on the steam forum, the rather small survivor one and the incredibly long killer list that followed the same rules as the first one.
All those survivors who couldnt read that disclaimer on the killer list tho.
Anyone who played since the beginning knows that it was far survivor sided for years and still although it's far more balanced today.
I’m going to condense my response since you clearly think you’re right and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.
Killer is NOT as hard as you and others make it out to be. People quit playing killer because they don’t like a challenge - period. It’s evident by all the whining I see on these forums.
Yes, I agree it’s the more stressful role. You definitely need to sweat as killer more than as survivor.
However, is red ranks full of god tier survivors, SWF depip squads? Absolutely not. An average skill level killer can usually 3-4K an average survivor squad.
Hahaha I have played DBD for 3 years in pc and Xbox, and I m sure that nowadays the game is broken for survivors , I had never seen genrush so strong 17 seconds to do a generator , came on , 2 seconds to sabotage a Hook. Pallets ow, and the old loops still live , I am main survivor and it is too easy escape that Devs need to do something to balance this game...
you mad, lol
git gud 😁
DS got buffed btw
You're here for discussion when it's been clear that
As a Rank 16 killer, I shouldn't even be aware that Rank 4's exist.
Many killer mains have fled, which has players like ME, a poor lonely Rank 16 killer facing against Red Ranks.
You must be mad if you think toolbox changes were buff for survivors in terms of faster repairing gens... Sure, you can repair 1 gen faster than before. But now you CANT repair 4 gens solo in 1:27 minutes. And before this change (even day before, i tested it) i was able to do 4 gens solo with 1 toolbox before killer even hit survivor (even if he was dumb and use like every single pallet he could), and before he get second hit one of other 2 free persons would finish last gen and i would almost instant open gate with quentin perk, and the chased one just run through that gate and killer didnt get even 1 hook in game. Now you cant do something like this, and games also lasts longer than before :P
Lol.. except you arent an actual rank 16 killer judging by your perks. You deranked due to the monthly rank resets.
1. The pallet vacuum removal
> The problem is in the name, killers under a pallet should be hit
2. The Exhaustion nerf
> Without exhaustion I'd be running all of those perks as survivor
3. The DS Rework/Nerf
> Wasn't that a buff???
4. The Mettle of Man nerf, probably the most hard hitting nerf to the survivor meta in the game, ever.
> A perk that made playing one side too enjoyable probably isn't fair
5. The Balanced Landing nerf
> Used that over and over and... brought into line... actually balanced!
6. The mere existence of the Spirit
> You do know you can juke her like nurse.. wait hold on nurse and spirit performed too well so...
7. The mere existence of Iridescent heads and how they still havent been nerfed in years.
> Not fun to play against like Mori, Keys or hatch
8. The mere existence of literally wall hack add-ons such as Myer's Mirrors.
> As he crawls along...
9. The nerfs to Medkits, toolboxes, and insta heals. Admittedly yes, instas were OP and toolboxes played a large part in gen rushing. But now, both are worthless.
> Instas take a few seconds now, give that to a looper with Adrenaline... Toolboxes were too strong.
10. The mere existence of the endgame collapse.
> ... Seriously?
11. The mere existence of second chance perks like NOED.
> Ok, I've obviously realised I've fallen for the bait... 2nd chance survivor swf meta perks you mean?
12. The fact that bugs/glitches/exploits that benefit killers (i.e. Legion walking backwards after a survivor while their Deep Wound ticked down) don't get patched for months while ones that benefit survivors (i.e. when Wake Up buffed ALL speeds) get patched in a day.
> Still waiting on sound issues to be fixed month after month now... Killers need sound!
13. The fact that the match runs off the killers connection. If there is even a SLIGHT drop in connection quality, the survivors feel it. I literally faced a Legion playing on a Wifi Hotspot some time ago. The worst lag I ever experienced. He said he didn't lag at all.
> You are trolling now, everything goes through DBD Amazon servers which means even gameplay (yikes!)
14. The fact that killers can get away scott free with holding the game hostage because they're scared of getting Decisive Striked/want their 4k/etc.
> Bleeding out and remove hatch mechanics... seriously are you trolling?
15. The double standard regarding DCing. Why is okay for a killer to DC from the map they don't like, and yet it's frowned upon when survivors DC bc, say, they don't want to face a particular killer?
> Killers hardly DC from experience but when a survivor does it they normally ruin everyones game.
16. The fact that camping and tunneling is considered strategic and yet, for example, jumping into a locker to force your DS isnt.
> DS is an anti tunneling perk but used as an anti momentum / 60secs of invincibility perk. Please play both sides
DS should be infinite uses as long as you get off the hook and everyone knows it. It’s because the killer players that keep complaining. Now they want a 30 second use instead of 60. It’s always something. The player should have the option of equipping a perk that ALWAYS protects you From getting tunneled. It just keeps you in the game and allows that person to enjoy the game a bit more. Solo play is at its worst and when people work together and are too efficient they nerf toolboxes. Okay... it goes both ways. Killers can knock down survivors just as fast.
60 second DS is well deserved for a one time use. Just saying. How is it fair that Ebony Mori’s aren’t a one time use? Or that rather than hooking and tunneling and avoiding DS it doesn’t have any further requirements that make it fair such as hooking everyone once FIRST? Playing Killer is not that bad. You’re bad.
The core of what you are saying is correct, the game is much more balanced now than it was in 2018 and certainly more balanced than release. However, I do not agree with your overall conclusion. Here is why:
At the highest level of play, Survivors hold the power to dictate the game. If you take 4 Survivors who make no mistakes, and play perfectly, then take a Killer who also plays perfectly, the Killer will usually lose. Why is that? Well, most Killers lack map pressure and the ability to get downs quickly. In the first 3 minutes of the match, the Survivors usually complete 3/5 of their objective, while the Killer generally completes anywhere from 1/12-3/12 of theirs.
Basically, the game is still unbalanced due to the time constraints put on Killers and Survivors ability to extend chases, but it is WAY better than it used to be.
Survivors will probably DC more often because the match more often than not just seems unfair. Lag affects both sides but I believe it hurts survivors more because every hit matters. Because once you go down and get hooked you might not ever get off of it.
Still doesn't excuse the fact that I shouldn't be going against any Red Rank survivors, nor purple ranks.
Just doing generators, is this funny for you?
Freddy can and will lose against a good swf if they try. Harder for solos to beat him,but still possible. Why shouldn't a killer be strong?
Ur talking about it as if every killer just facecamps lmfao,good one buddy. Also grabs haven't worked at all since the arrival of dedi servers either,so there's that. I got robbed many times cause of it.
Lets go over these:
Killers can be strong. I'm fine with spirit, Hillbilly, and Oni for example. But there's a difference between Strong and OP. Freddy is 100% OP. He does everything. First is his crazy lunge that basically guarantees he hits you through pallets making for an easy first down. If he can't for some reason he 90% of the time has his snares that'll catch you. Once he gets his first down all he has to do is BBQ over to the gen someone is working on and pop it. Afterwords he pursues the survivor that he saw the aura of and he already has his next down. Often this is before the person he just hooked is unhooked. Wash, rinse, repeat. And if that's not crazy enough survivors are pushed into the dream world at a crazy fast rate making his only counter useless. Then we've got the Oblivious in dreamworld rendering perks like Borrowed Time useless so Freddy has free reign to camp/tunnel. I'm at the point with Freddy where I just wanna d/c when I go up against him but I can't because of the d/c penalty. It sucks.
Freddy needs a hard nerf.
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd the killer echo room commences.
OP states facts, queue anecdotal subject talking points for the killer player base.
Survivors have been nerfed MORE than killers have since release.
Even if you want to whine over the details.
It's a statement of fact.
Don't let the killer echo room get you down, this place hasn't had perspective for awhile.
Least its better than the DBD reddit where people would downvote good points and upvote 'poor killer' posts Ad nauseam with no insight to offer.
I think you are delusional. not going to point out all the things that make this game survivor sided because even a monkey would realise how ######### this game is for killers.
OMG YOU MUST BE SUCH A GOD AT THIS GAME THEN
PLEASE ENLIGHTEN US "BAD KILLERS", BY PROVIDING US WITH A LIVESTREAM OF YOU PLAYING THE GAME SO WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM YOU, THE MIGHTY REY_512!
In the meantime as we watch you, we might as well count how many games you really "win"
I would love for you to teach us how to play the game well, so I can no longer be just "a bad killer" in a "totally balanced, non survivor sided game".
How don't people realize his lunge is the same as any other m1 killer lmfao. There is no difference. Only thing that makes it look like that is his height and his weapon. When a freddy uses snares you either leave a loop or throw the pallet down. Either wastes enough time. He can pop a gen all he wants,but if you don't greed against a snare freddy he can't really get people as fast as he needs to be able to pressure gens enough. Be awake before going for a save,all I can say about the bt argument.
Actually he's facts are on point.
History OF THE GAME:
Since release, killer has been buffed, survivor nerfed. This is important to understand and through examples you’ll see why that has happened. It shows you why the game has had the trajectory it has and why we are now in our current quagmire.
It all started with the introduction of swf and the 2 escapes, 2 kills devs unit of metric. You don’t have to like the metric but it’s whats given the survivors all their nerfs and all the killers current buffs.
The devs failed to understand that people would want to play with friends in an online game (serious), what we got was ‘lobby wars’. Where survivors would join different lobbies looking for their friends and leave if they couldn’t find them. It was horrible trying to find games. Hence why we got swf, that completely unbalanced the game by creating coordinated survivors that could communicate. The devs have been nerfing survivor ever since and completely crippled solo survivor play.
Killers now are up around 70% kills due to the trajectory of the game and the devs metric system, unless you feel their metric system is bad, in which case they can undo all the changes I've just mentioned....
It also important to mention marketing and advertising. There’s nothing special about survivors, they are just reskins with some new perks that all play the same. THATS IT. EACH killer has its own unique play style and as you see from their advertising, its always new killers they promote. Survivors get a mention, but its never really the selling point.
DBD reddit, back in the day was all about poking fun at survivors and giving you the impression that every second game is SWF and heavily biased against killers. Which was a lie. OP SWF games are maybe one in 30 games with most swf games being friends who are just wanting to have fun and usually end up wiping. But there was no push back, the killer echo room there would down vote anything survivor sided.
That coupled with the points I mentioned previously meant that a lot of survivor mains left the game. Which is kind of obvious, I mean you understand the devs unit of metric sure, but you just watch nerf, after nerf, after nerf as it all gets taken away. Why would you stay for that? Its kind of miserable.
What has this created? In short. Entitlement. Killer mains know if they whine, they get what they want.
THIS is the environment the devs have created and what you see on the forums.
I have to agree with him.. This game isn't survivor sided at all. Not that it needs to be, but it's way too much in favor of the killer now especially with the toolbox and item nerfs. I can't even repair like 25% of 1 gen with the best toolbox now.
Rip genrushing. One of the only viable counters against face campers
Killers are way too op. Some of them flat out need nerfs..ahem mmthedoctorahem
Translation: I'm just going to say your wrong, and because I said I'm not going to point out why you're wrong, you just have to accept my logic as fact.
Top kek bud.
A survivor with no enhancements can do a generator in 1 minute 20 seconds.
Oh right, you're the bait guy, Doctor OP, kappa.
Your opinions are now false and irrelevant. You exposed yourself as a simpleton as soon as you said "kappa". Sorry but you lost this battle. Better luck next time.
All those nerfs and the game is still insanely survivor sided because the devs won't do the nerfs you really deserve. Longer gen times, removal of 2nd chance perks.
Why do people post things like this and never ever respond to the counter arguments? Is it because they can't? i don't understand.