This game isn't survivor sided and hasn't been for 3 years
I come on these forums unsurprised at what I see all the time. I swear that large majority of all posts are all the same thing: killers whining about SWF, gen speeds, survivor meta perks, etc. Also claims that the devs are survivor sided and that they don't care about the killer player base.
So, I figured I'd try to compile my evidence against such claims.
1. The pallet vacuum removal
2. The Exhaustion nerf
3. The DS Rework/Nerf
4. The Mettle of Man nerf, probably the most hard hitting nerf to the survivor meta in the game, ever.
5. The Balanced Landing nerf
6. The mere existence of the Spirit
7. The mere existence of Iridescent heads and how they still havent been nerfed in years.
8. The mere existence of literally wall hack add-ons such as Myer's Mirrors.
9. The nerfs to Medkits, toolboxes, and insta heals. Admittedly yes, instas were OP and toolboxes played a large part in gen rushing. But now, both are worthless.
10. The mere existence of the endgame collapse.
11. The mere existence of second chance perks like NOED.
12. The fact that bugs/glitches/exploits that benefit killers (i.e. Legion walking backwards after a survivor while their Deep Wound ticked down) don't get patched for months while ones that benefit survivors (i.e. when Wake Up buffed ALL speeds) get patched in a day.
13. The fact that the match runs off the killers connection. If there is even a SLIGHT drop in connection quality, the survivors feel it. I literally faced a Legion playing on a Wifi Hotspot some time ago. The worst lag I ever experienced. He said he didn't lag at all.
14. The fact that killers can get away scott free with holding the game hostage because they're scared of getting Decisive Striked/want their 4k/etc.
15. The double standard regarding DCing. Why is okay for a killer to DC from the map they don't like, and yet it's frowned upon when survivors DC bc, say, they don't want to face a particular killer?
16. The fact that camping and tunneling is considered strategic and yet, for example, jumping into a locker to force your DS isnt.
Comments
Though many things on this "list" are skewed, at best, the OP does have a point. Taking away the argument that "the nerf was needed", there are significant survivor nerfs over the past two years. I take away the argument about whether it was needed or not for a reason; the nerf happened and it negatively impacted the survivor play. I'm not saying they were not needed, I'm saying it happened and the impact is clear. One of the biggest ones that was left off the OP's list was the overall healing nerf. There was a huge hit that started the "gen-rush" meta when they nerfed healing and self-care times across the board. Survivors stopped healing and focused on gens with Adrenaline as their back-up heal.
I think killer mains and survivor mains tend to become overly biased about the game and the changes in it. I've seen pretty big moves on both sides over the past couple of years and it is by no means a favoritism issue. EGC changed how the game is played and made it a thousand times better for killers. Yet, killer cried that the hatch will spawn even if no gens are done. That was extremely frivolous considering every aspect of EGC is killer-sided, except the fact that a survivor who happens to have a rare item can re-open the hatch and escape. I can count on my two hands how many times someone got the hatch when I did not want them, or escaped EGC over the past year on me. At the same time, survivors screamed about MoM nerf, regardless of the fact we all knew it would have to happen before Ash was even officially released. This forum was filled with survivors and killers discussing how the perk could be abused. If it were a perk limited to only 1-2 people having it a match, maybe not so bad, but 4 survivors running MoM was a nightmare. It had to be nerfed and survivor mains on this forum cried when it happened. Ok, how about a perk that offers NOED after the first gen is done? Wait, that would break the game? Ok.
Seriously, though I think the devs often work themselves into corners because their quality control process is completely broken or non-existent (the process by which you look at how a perk/power/change will impact all aspects of the game and brainstorm possibilities), they are clearly not sided one way or the other. They have been whooping everything with a nerf stick. I think perhaps it's time we start looking buffs now. Buff solo survivor to SWF level, then buff killers around SWF. That is the only path I see for actual balance. All these other tweaks keep doing more harm than good (see healing nerf above - thanks for the gen-rush meta).
Oh darn, someone on the internet called me a simpleton, this throws my entire worldview into question!
Gr8 B8 M8 I r8 8/8.
You poor survivor mains. I miss the days when i could stand at a window invincibly. Pressing Space every few seconds like a god. Those were the balanced days. Deciding wether i want to die or live. Now they took away the choice. I may die even if i dont want to! Death to all killer mains amirite
Any SWF can get a 4 or 3 escapes, name the killer freddy, spirit, etc. It really doesn't matter what killer you play, SWF is broken beyond any killer tiers.
You can’t just take my word for it? Yes, I usually get 3-4 kills each game as killer. I also sometimes get trashed on if it’s a good team, bad map, playing a killer I’m not used to.
I’m not expecting to 4K each game either but I think I’m pretty good. Ruin nerf hasn’t really impacted me because I like to distribute pressure and use PGTW.
Bad killer players just whine about how strong survivors are rather than improving or maximizing their loadouts (running BBQ for bloodpoints all the time, smh).
looool
You're the one who sounds upset.
Try a rationalised argument next time haha.
#killertears
Just look at recent history, EGC and hatch close, ALL benefit killer (amongst everything else I listed).
What you mentioned is because we are over 70% kill rates against survivors now and the devs have a choice about how they want to manage that. And according to them the metric is 2 kills, 2 escapes, so unless that changes, killers need push back and killers haven't dealt with that AT ALL.
They still doing weekley 'poor nurse' posts and went on and on for ages about poor legion nerfs until it was pointed out to them that legion kills were UP. That they finally went quiet.
You can call it something other than entitlement, but the killer community has no capacity to manage nerfs and streamers like Tru just propagate that attitude.
Exactly if they try to win and don't ######### around like most swfs.
The game is so pisspoor easy as swf that there is no challenge at all, if you are good at the game that is.
Survivors being nerfed more =/= survivors are no longer stronger. If you wanted to say survivors got nerfed more times sure. But that doesn't prove anything else.
Lets use numbers to display. Survivor power level was 50, and lets say killers were a 20. Ok We nerfed survivors by 15 and killers by 10. So now survivors are 35 and killers are killers are 10. Now you're saying "look, survivors lost 15 and you only lost 10, therefore survivors are weaker now". As you can (hopefully) tell 35 is not lower than 10. The game is still survivor sided.
The fact of the matter is maybe survivors have been nerfed more times, but the game is still overall survivor sided, and has been survivor sided for a long time.
Now if you mean survivor sided as "the devs don't care more about survivors" that's a much longer issue and yes, they do care more about survivors. Watching dev streams and looking at responses will show as far as I've seen.
Breaking News
The mere existence of killers means Survivors are too weak - leading Survivor main says.
Sounds just like an entitled survivor to me
Im not upset at all, i find your "history lesson" was a good joke. Survivors were invincible and they got nerfed for good reason. They are still easily the power role, unless your too unskilled to run circles properly. Your wall of text is a desperate attempt to twist things, we all know DbD's balance. I cant believe humans actually believe this, but here you are
57 upvotes . This forum is clearly killer sided. In my discussion about 4 man swf there was even a post with a quote " if survivos play good killer has no chance to win" it got about the same amount of upvotes no matter that the person that said that couldnt back up his quote and jumped off the train. Just quit arguing with them you only waste a time here.
I'm just gonna say here that OP means to me, or at least the way I interpreted it, is that if the Devs didn't care about Killers at all and the game was truly survivor sided we would still have these issues today.
Yes couldn't possibly be that what I said was accurate or anything all "Fake news" but forum bias cause reasons.
When you pair highskilled survivors against highskilled killers, the survivors win most of the time.
Thus the game is survivorsided.
Its not about who makes the bigger list or who cries the hardest. Its about genrushing the killer in 4 minutes with twenty second chances and winning over 9/10 matches. Easily. Its simply the highest powerlevel in this game. And its an uncontested strategy that works since release.
You need toptier killers with good addons and probably a Mori to contest that and you're still disadvantaged. You may have insane snowball with your build, but you only have 1-2 minute of playtime to make the plays before the gens are too far progressed.
All you say is just a confirmation of what he is trying to say: Survivors used to be way more op then they are now and got nerfed way harder then killers. You actually agree with him and i think he makes a solid point. Also, he did not even listed the hardest nerfs in my opinion (maps, dedicated servers for example)
I'm sorry I just have to say this:. Mirror myers is NOT that strong. He moves extremely slow and has gator arms. It's almost like playing nurse without blinks but can see where survivors are at all times. Just run and dont be a blendette.
Just because survivors were brought down from the level of overpowered they were at does not mean the game is still not skewed in favor of survivors, what it means is that the advantage has narrowed, it doesn't mean the game suddenly became killer sided.
And I never said he was wrong on all counts, because he wasn't, I specifically remember completely agreeing with iridescent heads and even Ebony Mori's, but the counterpoint was that keys break the game for an entire survivor team and actually reward survivors with 5k bp for escape and a possible pip, meanwhile Mori's often mean a guaranteed safety pip as you need hooks for a high enough devout score to pip and kills do not count in the same way.
I am now picturing poor Michael with T-Rex arms, it makes me sad but laugh at the same time.
NUMBER 11 is completely wrong. The mere existence of second chance perks? If anything survivors need MORE SECOND CHANCE PERKS. You act like every game there’s a huge chance nobody gets found. Or the fact that killers have EBONY MORI that can auto kill after survivors get tunneled and camped after first hook. DS and BT is there because killers play like trash and abuse their right to delete people from the game almost immediately. Everybody deserves a shot to play the game and stay in it. It’s not all about you as a killer getting ez kills like I feel it allows you to. Your response is invalid because you’re simply ignoring the fact that survivors should have defense mechanisms to defend themselves against certain abusive actions from killers.
Can you show us on the doll where Freddy touched you?
"Everybody deserves a shot to play the game and stay in it"
So the fact that you have to get hooked three times in almost 90% of games to actually be sacrificed, you have a perk available that makes it so the worst that can happen to you is getting slugged for 60 seconds after every hook, you have a perk available that will pick you up off the ground without assistance if you are slugged, you have a perk available that gives the unhooked player a free extra health state coming off the hook, another perk available that will heal you and give you a speed boost when the last generator is completed.
All of that wasn't enough?
Meanwhile killers have one endgame perk that creates any power spike at endgame Oh did I mention that perk can be completely nullified if survivors cleanse five dull totems? Oh and that once the endgame shows up the killer still has to find and down someone? At which point if survivors are smart they just go cleanse the hex totem now on the map and take out the perk?
Here's what's funny, you can't even keep your ramblings straight. Number 11 talks about second chance perks and you start raging about Ebony Mori's.
First, Ebony Mori's are red items and most killers don't use them very often, I am WAY more likely to run a BP or Map Offering than an Ebony Mori, mostly because I'm looking to either pip or farm BP. Second, Ebony Mori's actually work AGAINST killer's chances of pipping, as a kill does not register as a hook. Even killing a survivor who is on death hook is detrimental as you need 9 hooks at red ranks to hit iridescent and have any shot at pipping.
Meanwhile survivors can use keys, get 5k bonus BP for escaping, and likely pip in the process.
"Survivors should have defense mechanism"
Refer to above laundry list of perks that deny killers the ability to tunnel or slug.
Look I get it, your username alone tells me where your bias is going to lay, but good lord man, your arguments are always so full of holes it's actually depressing to read.
I am not saying it is totally killersided, most killers are actually well ballanced, but as i said, he makes a point that survivors got nerfed way harder then killers, but still killers are those who claim that they got nerfed to the ground (which could not be further away from the truth). You can find those threads of "disapointed" killers every day but currently nothing else happens the killer buffs and survivor nerfs.
You never said he is wrong with what he said, i also did not say that, but many dont get the point of this thread. Most of the nerfs are of course fine, and so are the killer nerfs. But again, there are people that for some reason think killers are those who suffer.
DBD has not been in a better state in sense of ballancing.
You’re mad aren’t you?
okay I don’t think you realize how often those ebony Mori’s show up in the blood web 😂 I see them in almost every single level on my killer main. I got a stack of those. Trust me they’re not “ultra rare” more like “common” it’s bs. Why should anyone put up with that? I think it needs to be reworked to where all survivors need to be hooked before anyone can be Mori’d . It impedes too much on a players right to play the game they paid money for. It’s bad enough tunneling and face camping is a thing. But if you’re doing it in retaliation for gen speed you’re just bad at the game. Quit being lazy and go find people. Learn gen control pressure and map control. It’s stressful I know, but you wonder why certain perks are in place - to prevent you from preventing me from playing The game . I queued up too didn’t I? It’s not all about you.
I started on about Mori’s because as a killer you have a right to rob ppl of 2nd chance anything
Imo it’s too easy to find survivors. And for that reason alone I think survivors should have 2nd chances or more for sure . They cram 8 generators on a small map with you as a killer having every ability known to mankind to slay people. and you’re telling me you’re wondering why they’re giving survivors second chances huh? Who wants to spawn In and immediately get chased, downed and hooked without getting off it again? Or Mori’d right after negating DS? Stupid man. What because since you’re by yourself as killer you deserve to just bury people as soon as they spawn in? Yeah okay. It’s just not fun for survivors man idc SWF or not. That one guy leaves with nothing and you walk out with 20-30K. Who’s the elephant in the room? Killers. Sorry 🤷♂️
Yea gen rushing is a thing but it has to be because killers can wipe people just as fast. Killers can run on people too. I think killers have been given too much. 3/4Ks are ez. And I’m not saying this because of my name. I main plague, not even one of the best killers in the game. But I get 3/4Ks every single game and I see red and purple ranks in my games as a Rank 12 killer (I don’t play much) but I’m telling you, it can be just as EASY to run on survivors.
So first off, you don't have to machine gun posts, you know you can just use paragraphs right?
And I would think I'm quite aware of how often Ebony Mori's show up in bloodwebs, since I exclusively play killer. Spoiler alert: Maybe 1 every 3-4 bloodwebs, and often I don't even bother taking them as they are 7k BP and I won't use them.
I doubt highly that you see them in every single bloodweb, yellow Mori's yes, green Mori's maybe every 2-3 webs, Ebony Mori's every single blood web? No.
"I think it needs to be reworked to where all survivors need to be hooked before anyone can be Mori’d"
So before we even go any further let me say I don't give two halves of a flying ######### about Mori's, you can have all of them I personally think they're stupid anyway. You can have all of them.
Right after I get them keys.
"It impedes too much on a players right to play the game they paid money for."
Don't ever use this argument, it's pathetic and logically dumb. Even if sacrificed you can queue for another game instantaneously. Killers on the other hand deal with a DC penalty if they leave a match and have no option to suicide halfway through one either. It's either deal with the remaining game even if it's not going well or self-imposed timeout, so please, don't try this terrible argument, it's actually insulting.
"It’s bad enough tunneling and face camping is a thing"
Face camping is penalized both in bloodpoints and the emblem system resulting in an almost assured depip. Tunneling is countered by those 4-5 second chance perks I mentioned and if you actually played survivor at red ranks you would know all too well that every killer assumes every survivor has DS unless given concrete evidence otherwise (no obsession in a game for example). The worst that can happen to a survivor at red ranks is maybe getting slugged which is countered by Unbreakable or just a teammate getting you up.
"But if you’re doing it in retaliation for gen speed you’re just bad at the game. Quit being lazy and go find people."
Considering as a red rank killer I bloody have to otherwise I would end up back in purples really quickly I"m gonna go out on a limb and say I do bud, not sure who this is aimed at.
"Learn gen control pressure and map control. It’s stressful I know, but you wonder why certain perks are in place - to prevent you from preventing me from playing The game . I queued up too didn’t I? It’s not all about you."
Seriously, show me on the doll where the Freddy violated you. Cause this victim complex is just stunning.
I like how I have to learn "gen control pressure and map control" even though I could just as likely get a great map like Hawkins as a terrible map like Ormond or Disturbed ward but yet survivors never have to learn skills beyond holding M1. You can make it to red ranks easily holding M1 and letting others carry the looping and chasing for you. Survivors can get to the top of the mountain not even using the whole survival toolkit, killers have no luxury, everything we get is all on us, wins and losses.
So please stop with the victim complex.
I was gonna respond to this until this point.
"Stupid Man".
Yeah we're done here, I've given your little tantrum enough attention anyway.
Look at their post history - Save your keystrokes, friendo!
Bring Back OG Nurse, Mori's, STBFL, Trapping under hook, invisible traps, OG NoED just to name a few and I would give back all survivor nerfs.
Yeah I know, I nom nom the bait more than I should. Sometimes it's fun tho.
youre wrong in every way. 😂😂😂
lag has SO much to do with it. It’s not about you killing all 4 because it seems that way. You’re complaining about illegitimate reasons for being a killer. Survivors are the ones that can ONLY take ONE or TWO hits before going down SO YES LAG matters for survivors. On top of that EVERY hook matters because that survivor may not even get off the hook because of killers camping or dashing back to it as soon as they get off. Then they go down and get Mori’d? Please explain how you think that’s fair? A gen hasn’t even popped yet.
u lost credibility the moment you said spirit was countered by good juking. good troll
You CONSISTENTLY say "This is my opinion and I believe its true', I don't think you have ever offered anything beyond cheap comments and superficial burns.
Try and offer something more, because when people talk about 'critical thinking' those that respond with cheap derogatory comments don't have it.
Try, even just once, to rationalise your opinion beyond 'cause I say so'
Just so I can stop laughing at you.
Good thing I couldn't care less what you think, so your assessment of my credibility is irrelevant.
But thanks for stopping by.
I like your rational and insightful answer
i couldnt care less what you think either. most sentient people would know your assessment is laughable. have a good day
"Most sentient people would know"
Did you stop to ask them all? Or is this just another lazy appeal to authority you don't actually have?
Thought so.