Where's the early game? (3rd times the charm)
Previous two attempts to talk about giving killers an early game back.... Haven't gone well. So to heck with it. Shrek 3. So I'm putting together 3 arguments as to why a killers early game being non existant shouldn't be treat as something that just happens. I'll try using a peel structure for these arguments :
P - point
E - evidence
E - an explication as to why the evidence is relevant
L - linking it back to the overall statement (that is killers should be given back an early game)
1st argument
a killers early game can be the deciding factor if they win or lose, if they have 2/3 gens pop within the opening minutes of a match then more pressure is put on them to make next to no mistakes. this can be shown through hag's insanely low pick rate at the higher ranks. To explain the common consenus among the community is that hag Is a fairly decent killer, just below or just above huntress depending on who you are - however because of her movement speed not being great for chasing with she has to set up. However because generators can be done so fast it forces that hag to sacrifice her power to make a mistake in chasing survivors normally. Which you simply can't do at red ranks.
How does this show that a killers early game can dictate how a match goes? If hag doesn't set up she can't play efficiently. If she can't play efficiently she loses. She can't set up in the way that she should because there's next to no early game to use to set up in.
2nd argument - (not the best argument to make but I needed 3 because I need to practise planning essays more frequently)
the quicker a match goes the less blood points everyone gets, blood points are essential in progressing and unlocking things so that you as a player have more fun. However the faster a match goes the less BP you can gain. This could be shown through the difficulties in maxing out the survival category - if all the generators are completed within 5/6 minutes the most survival points you could get is capped at 5000. This is relevant to explaining why killers should have an early game because in this game its incredibly easy to snowball, if a killer has no early game their mid game is going to be much weaker which means there's going to be less opportunites for the survivors to gain blood points as they can't interact with the killer how the scoring system suggests to. Additionally it also makes the scoring categories in chest searching pointless as... You can max out that category by running prove thyself and doing 2 gens. But that's a completely different issue.
3rd argument - (kinda ditched the format here)
a fast game isn't fun for either side, for a killer they get reletively little blood points and for survivor they'll spend more time quing than they do actually playing the game. As shown by the time it takes to get into a lobby. If the killer was given its early game back it'd make the roll less stressful to play while also decreasing the loby que time for survivor which makes that experience less tedious which will help to promote steady growth of the player base
So there are some arguments. Tell me which ones the strongest. Which ones the weakest. And make your own arguments for and against the statement.
Comments
Oh man, I remember PEEL. That takes me back.
Before I say anything on the topic, I think it's important that everyone is on the same page as far as defining the central term goes. Could you explain exactly what you mean by "early game", so that I can interpret your arguments in that context?
The game has a design problem at its core. The devs say the first three gens are supposed to pop quickly, then the game slows down as the killer only has four gens to patrol. There are a couple problems with this, though.
One, it's demoralizing for the killer, because it just feels like the survivors are breezing through their objective. The killer either gives up (I've seen this plenty), going afk, or they feel stressed; neither of these states is conducive to a sense of "fun." It's not like the game at any point teaches killers the finer points of gen pressure, so the average player who isn't hanging out on these forums is not going to see three gens popping early on as anything other than a match-losing failure on their part.
Two, it's only easier for the killer to patrol the last four gens if those four gens are near each other. If the survivors pay attention, then the final generators are across the map from each other.
This definitely hammers home some of the issues, the other ties right into it which is map design.
7 generators to patrol wouldn't be as much of an issue if some of the maps weren't MASSIVE. Ormond, Crotus Penn, Coldwind Farm all come to mind for having generators literally miles from each other.
To me early game is the 5th and 4th gen. Mid game 3rd and second gen. late game last generator and endgame is exit gates. Is that an okay interpretation of the stages of the game?
Sure. Do hooks enter into it at all? Like if the killer 3-hooks everyone before the second generator has popped, did that all happen in the early game?
This is incorrect. The Devs said that you should not expect to have all Gens up after a few minutes. This is totally different from what you are saying.
They were, however, saying that a Killer can also give up Gens and not patrol them. And I see nothing wrong with that, why should I walk full Map into an area full of Pallets and good Loops, to protect a Gen there? Or, for example the two Gens on Hawkins (the one in the Portal Room and the one upstairs). Those two are horrible to defend, why should I even attempt? It takes so much time to get to them, let the Survivors have them.
And well, if someone calls it a loss if one or two Gens are done, then they might consider playing a different game. You can easily lose two Gens early on and win without any more Gens being done. And the Goal for the Killer is NOT to finish the game without any Gen being done. Since they changed Gatekeeper, you can even get an Iridescent Emblem, even if the first Gens were really fast.
For me it is just logical that the game will slow down when the Survivors are forced into altruistic actions. The first Gen will be the easiest and fastes, while the last Gen will be the hardest. Ressources are gone, maybe not even 4 Survivors are in the game anymore.
Killers simply want it really easy to keep 5 Gens up, but this is wrong. You can win as Killer with two Gens being done early, without any big problem. You just need to start hitting people and then you will notice that the game is going slower.
"In terms of the game's power curve, it's expected the first couple gens go fast. 4 Survivors, one Killer... several chases to get one Survivor out. But as the number of gens to patrol decreases, it becomes easier for the Killer to patrol, and their power rises." https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/995830/#Comment_995830
That's the same thing I was trying to say. Almo said "couple" while I said "three"; if the killer is chasing one survivor, two to three gens are going to pop quickly. And it still only gets easier to patrol if the remaining gens are close to each other. If the survivors manage to have two gens on one side and two on the other, my god, that's [BAD WORD]ing boring. I spend a stupid amount of time walking back and forth across a huge map patrolling. I've gone afk and let the last two survivors escape because I just got so bored playing a walking sim.
Anyway, in my above post I was only talking about the way this effects killer players psychologically. To many players, especially inexperienced players, what it looks like to them is that they've accomplished little to nothing while the opposing side has done 3/5 of their objective. The game throws players into the deep end and just tells killers, "Hey, kill these four survivors." It doesn't teach killers anywhere that it's a game of attrition, and while survivors are working on generators, killers need to be getting them to waste their resources. Or that the point of hooking a survivor isn't to make sure that one survivor dies but to get other survivors off gens.
I feel like the game needs to do something to help killers understand that yes, gens are going to get done, and that's okay. We know how the game works. We're on the forums discussing it. Meanwhile, it's easy to see that new players don't get it by how many lose by tunneling one player and/or aggressively camping hooks. And when they're still doing that at higher ranks, it means experience isn't teaching them to play differently.
You know what would be cool? Making dead zones dangerous so that survivors don't feel so safe hiding where there are no unfinished generators. Like the Battle Royale danger zones. It wouldn't kill you or anything, but it might reveal your aura or make you scream every so often. It would create more tension and it would help killers see that as generators are completed things become less safe for survivors. And survivors shouldn't be spending a huge amount of time in dead zones not participating in normal gameplay, anyway. No, I don't consider hatch camping normal gameplay, I hate dying as one of the last two survivors because I was working on a gen while all the other did was hide. You can argue that if survivors are hiding in dead zones then gens aren't getting done and that's a good thing, but like I pointed out above, it gets really boring walking back and forth between gens. The match going longer doesn't benefit killers if nothing happens during that time. The late game can be really boring as a survivor, too, when I'm sneaking around the map just trying to find a gen to work on and then I'm wondering if I'm the only survivor doing anything.
DbD's lack of structure gives players a lot of room to try different stuff, but it also gives matches a lot of room to be really boring with possibly large amounts of time during which nothing's happening.
Structure can be a good thing. The EGC is one of the best changes they've made to the game since I started playing.
Ruin is a late game perk
In my view of what the early game is. I guess so.
hooks are also an objective , but if we start using hooks to dictate the game....I don't feel right saying that having 5 hooks when there's 5 gens left the "mid game". Additionally if hooks are used to dictate the state of the game....0 hooks when 5 gens are complete isn't anywhere near early game.
While it is important to consider both I chose to view the current state of the trial in terms of gens to keep it relatively simple instead of having to remember 356 more number combinations
Nerf gearhead
Alright. So when you say "Killers don't have an early game", what does that mean in relation to the killer's objective? If 2/3 generators pop within the first couple of minutes, is that always a problem, even if the killer has already got maybe 3-4 hooks in that time? Is it only a problem for some killers, like Trapper, who need to sacrifice early setup for early chases/hooks or vice versa?
There is like only 2 Killers who can get 3-4 hooks in the early game, and that's because they have global teleports / high mobility. All other Killers literally have to go without an early game unless the survivors just straight up ignore their objective.
I am more than sure the survivors do not want to "gen rush", but with current map sizes and layouts it's near impossible to avoid unless they are taking moments to go stare at the Trial walls.
Just to be clear, I'm not making an argument here. I'm still trying to clarify what OP is arguing so that I can be well-informed to respond to it.
If a killer somehow managed to get 3/4 hooks in the early game they're doing well. That's not a problem.
However I think it's a problem for most killers rather than concidering within this early game you not only need to locate a survivor but sometimes you have to walk all the way across the map, usually this results in you getting only 1 down by the time 2 gens have popped which makes it too easy for survivors to snowball off.
Snowballing dictates how viable killers are in this fast paced meta. Killers like oni and the shape have a weaker early game.... However because oni's snowballing potential is so high it makes up for it. Myres snowball potential might be high in chase but it provides next to no map pressure which means the value of his snowball isn't as high. Etc etc.
While you could slug and attempt to go for a second down.... There's so many anti slug perks in the game it's unreal.
But concidering you can blow right through both the early and mid game in a minute and 25....i don't even think spirit could cope with it
https://twitter.com/SpaceC0c0nut/status/1240540788167045120?s=19
So you're saying that the fact that some killers find it difficult to get any hooks before that second generator has popped is a problem, because at that point they're too far on the back foot to make a comeback unless they play perfectly from that point onward. The fact that it's possible for generators to get done that quickly is what you're referring to as killers having "no early game", and you think that's bad because killers need that time to build up pressure in order to have a chance at an eventual win.
In other words, your argument boils down to:
(a) [Premise] Killers need to build up pressure before the second generator is completed in order to snowball effectively and eventually win the game, and
(b) [Premise] Killers, in general, do not have the time or abilities they need to build up sufficient pressure during this period, therefore
(c) [Conclusion] Killers, in general, are not equipped with the necessary resources to win games.
Would you say that's a fair and accurate summary? Feel free to correct me if not.
I'd like to preface this with sorry if my language or points have been basic but weaving this around lessons and stuff hasn't been easy but :
A and B I agree with, you've summerised those premises concicely
C is the debatable one. While killers do have rescouces they need to win games like a trappers traps... They don't have enough time to prepare them. However each killers resources are diffrent. Such as ghostface compared to pig etc.
Have I made sense or does my words just look like dribble on a kitchen wall?
I probably phrased it incorrectly then, because C should be the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from A and B.
I used the word "resources" in the very general sense of not only the killers' powers themselves, but also available time, the necessary logistics of using those powers (such as set-up in the Trapper's case) and how the power contributes to the killer's ability to build pressure. In other words, "resources" just refers to the "time and abilities" mentioned in the second of the two premises.
The points could just as easily be simplified as "killers need early game pressure to win games, killers don't have early game pressure, therefore killers can't win games", I just made it a bit more nuanced than that to more accurately capture what you were trying to say. But if I've understood it correctly, that is the essence of your argument in the form of a syllogism.
Hopefully that makes a bit more sense.
early game does exist, it’s just short, as most early games phases in other games are
From the time the match starts to around the first gen pops is usually a good indicator early phase is over
its mostly subjective