I_CAME
I_CAME
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Good changes but still easily the best killer in the game. I'm interested to see what the addon nerfs are. Especially to the recharge addons. Those need a fat nerf considering how strong the nurses power already is.
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Scott has the right take on it. Tunneling is a cheesy tactic used by bad killers who are incapable of chasing good players. Tunneling killers don't know how to properly run different tiles and can't mind game well. The entire strategy of tunneling is completely reliant on there being a bad/inexperienced survivor in the match. I know this from my own experience. Killers who hard tunnel off the hook completely collapse when they actually get matched with four good survivors. Then they come on here and complain about how they got gen rushed even though they applied zero pressure to the gens over the course of the game. It's why people are so desperate to get SWFs removed/nerfed. People just want easy games where they don't actually play against four people of equal skill. They want that one bad player who makes the game easy for them.
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@Xendritch said:
I actually big disagree with this for a couple reasons.
- Will it be nerfed at some point? Probably yes but there's no way to know when, you mention dead hard but that took 4 years for anything to happen. Should people actively weaken themselves because maybe someday the meta will change? Take this logic to other games and nobody would think this was good advice. Oh don't play the top deck in Hearthstone because they might nerf it and it will leave rotation at some point. You'd be laughed out of the room for ever suggesting anything like that.
- Going back to dead hard....yeah.....still 2-4 every single game. It was overall nerfed but it's still very strong and what's to say if CoB or eruption get changed they won't still be strong. That's already happened once before for killers with ruin. It was deemed too strong got completely changed but that version was still very strong and was the meta for a long while even after the change.
- I would actually encourage newer players to run these perks to give them more time to learn chase without getting discouraged. These arn't NOED where you fail all game get to end game and then one shot people because they weren't expecting it. You still need to actually chase and get downs and hooks to win with these perks and these just slow the game down for newer players that otherwise would likely get overwhelmed.
They literally said they are going to take a more active approach to making sure a meta gets out of control. See how fast thana got nerfed. Eruption isn't going to make it for four years. It won't even make it past the january update. The videos of people holding games hostage until the time limit expired were the final nail for the gen kick meta.
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Buff ds back to five seconds and make it last 90 seconds like otr so there is an actual risk involved in tunneling. Nerf eruption. That’s all I want. I think eruption nerf is the only one that will happen.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
No unless they nerf Gen Speed perks because if they did that then let's say the Survivor they killed didn't have any Speed perks but the 3 left had them and now they have no perks to defend against it.
Go ahead. This would still benefit the survivors infinitely more. The only gen perk that shows up in an average game is prove thyself anyway.
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I played against this guy once on RPD. We got a three out because he bumped into a wall during his camp and went into a tantrum. It took him like five minutes to get his first down. It's a cute gimmick but it sort of reinforces the idea that people who camp are terrible in chase.
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Reminder that only 2 percent of survivors use hyper focus. They can nerf it because it’s not going to change anything when almost nobody uses it to begin with.
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@MrsGhostface said:
Have you considered that maybe you’re just bad at killer and good at survivor?
The dunning Kruger effect is big in the killer community.
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Make the MMR tighter and you will see less tunneling. They need to take MMR back to where it was when the system released. Even if it means slightly longer matchmaking queues. I used to favor faster matchmaking but the amount of mismatches i've seen has changed my mind. When MMR was released if you played like a sweat then you got matched with survivors who also played like sweats. You were much more likely to get matched with juicer squads if you 4K'd often. I was balls deep in my killer main phase at that point so I know from experience that games used to be significantly harder. It's much harder to pull off cheese tactics against good teams. Unfortunately killer mains cried that the game was too hard and Behavior caved to their demands for an easier system. If people want to play every killer game like their life is on the line then why shouldn't they get matched with top tier survivors? The current matchmaking is far too loose and it leads to killers getting bad players they can easily tunnel out. Nearly every game is a killer immediately hard tunneling the least experienced survivor who realistically should not even be in that game to begin with.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Just drop MMR and you'll see the perk combo once in a blue moon.
The thing is this doesn't even really work with how low the MMR softcap is. If you are in the middle of MMR you will still see this combo almost every game. Only people at the absolute lowest MMR won't get this.
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Or they could just remove self unhooks that kill you.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301695#Comment_3301695
Considering how long DH was a I-Win button and how long DS was weaponized. I wouldn´t be to optimistic about Eruption getting changed any time soon.
Believe what you want. They gutted the new thana almost immediately and flat out said they don't want people bringing the same perks every game which is exactly what is happening right now. Eruption is 100x worse than thana was so there's no way it makes it through the january update if the devs are serious about their commitment to stop a meta from taking over.
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Nightlight kill rates aren't even accurate when compared to the ones Behavior officially released. They are actually meaningless.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Killer is easier but far more stressful, SWF is easy mode and solo survivor is by far the hardest role in DBD.
Because the game is RNG based matches can sometimes favour killer more than survivor etc. But most maps are survivor sided in my opinion but the game has recently become a bit killer sided due to the current gen control meta and nerfs (mostly justified) to the survivor meta
Killer was only stressful when SBMM was new and actually matched sweaty killers with opponents on their level. These days you can camp and tunnel to your heart's content since the low soft caps will never actually consistently match you with good players regardless of how much you win.
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I think they need to move away from overpowered perks, addons, items, killers, etc. Things that are fun for one side but miserable for the other. It's impossible to balance a game when people can bring broken stuff that basically means the other team will have no chance. Like what is a beginner trapper supposed to do against a full SWF with 4 BNPs and full meta perks? What is an average solo team supposed to do against a meta nurse or an alch ring blight? The guys who have the longest SWF win streak have lost to these killers numerous times and they expect ordinary players to be able to handle it? It's just insane. Perks and items/addons in particular should be small advantages and not things that single handedly win you the game. If you did this you would see far less DOA games that are over in the first minute or two.
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@FeryGEN said:
I don't want to croak, but it looks like we will be left without bonuses until the next patch, namely until January
End of january too most likely. Not even sure if it's worth touching solo survivor without the incentive.
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Killer is easy mode. Stack four slowdowns + have a slight amount of competence and you will win 90% of your games at least. You don't even need to take my word for it. One can just turn on any streamer who mains killer if they need proof that you can win this much. The game is a joke for killer at the moment. Only the sweatiest SWFs are a threat at this point. If you lose to solos frequently then you are just bad at the game.
For survivor it's much worse. It's just getting hit in the face with one slowdown perk after another. The game also devolves into this weird back and forth at the end where the killer just runs around kicking every gen and tries to drag the match out for as long as possible since the new gen regression meta has almost no requirements to activate. It creates this long late game standoff and slows the game down to a crawl. It's incredibly boring at best. The part that feels bad is that I lose games to bad killers that never would have been beaten me before solely because they stacked four slowdowns. I've lost count of how many games i've lost just because of eruption locking me out for 25 seconds numerous times over the course of a match. People who think the old meta was stronger are insane. Pop at least required you to down someone, hook them, and then go to the gen and kick it. Ruin could be entirely cleansed out of the match. There is no risk or effort involved in the current meta. Spending 2.5 secs to kick a gen isn't a risk when it gives you the insane amount of value that the call of brine/eruption combo gives.
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The trolls on this forum are so bad. Like among the worst i've ever seen. The ones on Steam at least put effort into their posts and usually have entertaining gimmicks.
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I don't even believe this game has an MMR system unless you are at the absolute bottom. I've had some ridiculous streaks on Nurse and Blight and I never felt like people were getting significantly better. There is also a massive amount of variation in skill to the point where they might as well turn the system off entirely. One game you play against gods and the next it's people who have no idea what they're doing. I assume this is because of how low the softcap is. The way a person with 3000 MMR can theoretically be matched with a person who has 1500 is what I mean. I think they'd be better off going back to the old rank system at this point.
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I love these threads. People know a nerf is coming and they're desperately trying to convince others that this perk isn't completely busted.
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A new video came out where streamer/youtuber Hens333 forced a 3 gen on dead dog against a SWF. Eruption is so strong that he forced the game to go on until the time limit expired and all of the survivors instantly died. Is this being possible really something that is good for the game? It's definitely a video the devs should consider looking at if they don't understand why these perks are not fun to go against. It creates this long attrition battle at the end of a game where no one wants to concede.
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@JustWhimsical said:
I think most people can agree the way the perk is currently designed is too much.
You'd be surprised at how many delusional people are on this forum. There are people who will defend this perk until they are blue in the face. "just never go down" or "just use your telepathic abilities to perfectly predict when your teammates are going down ez". Even trolls on Steam have more rational takes about this game than some of the people on this forum. I think the defense of this perk is as simple as people knowing how broken it is and not wanting to see it get nerfed. It's like people who defended old dead hard as being fine.
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It's because there are so many broken things behavior still hasn't nerfed. Nurse, blight, eruption, facecamping, tunneling, etc to name a small number of them. If you want to bring the nuke as killer then you can. The average solo team has no counter to any of this provided the killer is competent. People constantly justify broken things being in the game due to a measly 4% of the survivor playerbase being four man SWF which is ridiculous IMO. The kill rate is 60+ percent at the highest MMR and that is NOT counting dcs. Nor does it show us kill rates for solo vs SWF. The escape rate is probably significantly LOWER than what they're showing when you consider how many people DC. Solo probably escapes 1/4 of the time at best. That's not a balanced game IMO. The only people who think the game is balanced are people who rarely play solo queue survivor. Any sane person who plays solo can quickly tell there are major balance issues with the game.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288289#Comment_3288289
Will they though? They didn't last year.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288292#Comment_3288292
I assume that console numbers experience similar trends because the gameplay experience is the same if not worse. I also doubt that Epic makes up the difference for losses on other platforms.
What's new is that we're hitting a much lower low.
Maybe very slightly since there was also just a new chapter. It'll just nosedive again once the event ends. I don't think any reasonable person can pretend like a game tanking in player count after new content is a good thing. I think the honeymoon phase from the recent updates is over and people are realizing how boring/unbalanced the current meta is. One thing they need to do to keep interest is to get rid of the long time between patches. Maybe do them every month instead. They just take so long to address major issues that the game becomes frustrating to play.
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@scenekiller said:
Tell that to all the people who play her and all the survivors from her killrate
People like to pretend she's bad because they treat this game like esports and lost to a couple of SWFs with her - but the truth is, she's fun to play and very good against most casuals (which is a majority of the survivor playerbase)
You mean people don't actually go against SWFs with a combined 30k hours every match? The delusional portion of the DBD killer community totally had me fooled!
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I don't play her because my headset isn't good enough. I don't feel like i'm able to play her to her full potential. I've run into insanely good spirits so I don't buy the idea that she's weak at all. She's insanely powerful still if you use MDR. People are just sheep and see any minor nerf as the killer being weak.
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@SluggedSurvivor said:
Nobody cares about points. Maybe they should just fix solo and you wouldnt have as many DCs
Played 7 games last night. There were dcs in five of them. 4/5 were survivors being hard tunneled off the hook by S or A tier killers with full slowdown builds. The other was someone mad they got downed first. I don't get why killers whine about survivors dcing when they play the strongest killers with the strongest builds and still tunnel random solos off the hook. Like what do they expect?
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@versacefeng said:
Your MMR: ⬇️
Do all the streamers who win 99% of their matches have low MMR too? Killer is a joke if you know what you're doing AND bring the most busted builds/strategies possible.
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Just stop playing period. When enough people quit they will make massive changes. Nothing brings about change like a game losing players. Especially one where the business model is to sell cosmetics to as many people as possible. The game is losing players pretty fast. A few more months of these kinds of losses and they'll be forced to do something.
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@Hunkulese said:
If you ever watch competitive DBD, you'll see 100% of the killers camp to some extent. They are all very good killers. Some of the best in the world. It's the most efficient way to play killer. You absolutely can camp and be a "good" killer.
There is a huge difference. They're up against the best survivors in the world. People who are on comms and can reasonably counter facecamping to some extent. It's not the same as facecamping random solos who can't communicate what's going on. There is no skill involved in facecamping randoms. Wasn't this the whole controversy with the kills=skill argument when MMR came out? I thought we were in agreement about this.
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I feel like the escape rate would be significantly lower if they actually factored in the dcing epidemic that has hit the game recently. In reality the escape rate is probably 25-30%. The number of rage dcs and hook suicides alone show that the game isn't in a good state for survivor. People have never done this at the rates they're doing it now. It's just frustrating to play survivor more than anything else. The game's playerbase was propped up by major updates, the anniversary, and a popular dlc release. Now we're back to losing 12% of the playerbase monthly. We're almost back to the player counts we had before the perk overhaul. The honeymoon phase is over and now the frustration has set in.
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@Ghoste said:
The current 60% kill rate includes SWF. I’d bet it’s even higher vs. solos. That’s not what I’d call balanced.
Which is why the game lost a massive 12% of its Steam playerbase in November. Also why there are so many rage dcs and suicides compared to in the past. Solo queue is a nightmare. You can't make the game unfun for that much of your playerbase.
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@AJStyIez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281074#Comment_3281074
I've still been waiting years for somebody to explain the first quote with clear logic and I'm a Survivor main... I definitely don't agree with the OP to have ridiculously overtuned debuffs for simply being a SWF or having BHVR straight up remove it from the game but it does needs changes. For as long as its existed its been the most privileged role in the game and people need to stop being delusional and pretending it doesn't break immersion/balance in a lot of scenarios. The foundation of the game's design and mechanics aren't consistent with SWF gameplay because it wasn't a launch feature. This has never been addressed, just mitigated through the years
Over time they've done a decent job at applying band-aids in the form of perks, but you can't hide the wounds forever and that goes for both sides too. On this particular wound though, I'm really tired of the lame excuses for SWF when the same people making them go so hard to advocate for every other perk/character/mechanic to be balanced for everybody. Some people just wanna have their cake and eat it too
For example, Nurse shouldn't exist as she is according to them because "she breaks the game by default by ignoring game mechanics" yet SWF somehow doesn't do that providing 4 players access to multiple perks for free by default and ignoring game mechanics that were designed without Discord or party chat in mind..
People will boast that every Nurse in the world should be harshly punished with the nerf-bat because the top percentile players reached a level that's stressful for them to go against, but SWF at the top percentile stacking full meta playing comp-style against M1s is fine and Killers should cope because most SWFs are casuals while the top percentile SWFs are rare (They're really not once you're above the soft-cap. Its very common to run into high prestige teams with stacked items or very obviously playing with comms. You don't need to be Oracle to have 'SWF' moments either, it happens on a daily basis)... I should cope with my stressful SWF matches (even when you win it can feel deflating to go through) because its part of the game and we should consider other's fun, but its not fair that a good Nurse can have fun at your expense once per 30 matches you play.... If you change Nurse (most likely coming in the future) and micromanage every little perk because of her then you have to start doing the same for SWF. They bottleneck balance too
Balancing SWF without removing it is a difficult task for sure, but its hardly 'punishing people for playing with their friends'. The main people who use that line are the ones that use 'playing with my friends' as a disguise for 'I like to stack the deck with randoms I met through Looking For Group or my list of Survivor contacts and I don't want any aspect of my advantages altered'. If playing with friends is the sole concern they have in regards to SWF then they should be fine considering they're not being restricted from doing that, they'd just be brought back a little bit closer to Earth. Its not a conspiracy either, most of the people who want SWF to be addressed SWF themselves or have SWFd in the past. Its obviously a lot of fun and it should be in the game, it just shouldn't be left the way it currently is. Its literally the easiest role in the game to play between SoloQ and Killer
They are both overpowered but the frequency is the difference. Sweaty killers bringing the most OP **** imaginable is far more common than a SWF where all four players are insanely good. I'm about done with people pretending like comp SWFs are running around all over the place. Especially now with how low the soft caps are. There's no way anyone is getting constantly matched with these teams. If this game had an extremely strict MMR system then maybe people would have a valid point when complaining about SWFs. The amount of four stacks is very low according to behavior's own data. The number of people playing in a 4 man SWF is only around 4% based on the most recent data. The amount of that 4% who are ridiculously good is even lower. I run into killers running the most busted builds imaginable in every other game I play as survivor. It's far more common than the dreaded SEAL Team Six SWF where everyone plays perfectly.
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Last night my casual friend and I got put into a game with a prestige 78 comp huntress. A few days before that we got put into a game with a prestige 100 nurse who had a full meta build. We get matches like this frequently regardless of how many games we lose. It just doesn't seem to matter. There's no a way functional MMR system would put us in games like this. On killer I get matched with weak survivors regardless of how many games I win. Not to brag but my win rate is quite high as killer. Logically I should be getting matched with the sweatiest SWFs in the game. It just doesn't happen consistently and ends up with me destroying the survivors far more often than not. The matchmaking almost feels like you are flipping a coin.
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People refuse to acknowledge this even happens. People pretend like every DC is just someone who is salty because they got downed early. The majority of DCs I see in my games are people who are being face camped or hard tunneled off the hook. Then this leads to the chain reaction where the rest of the team just gives up since the game is a lost cause. I feel like it comes down to people feeling like they're in a no win scenario. Same reason people immediately give up against nurses and alch ring blights with four slowdowns.
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@fake said:
Would my opinion that only Eruption actually needs to be changed be unpopular?
I think this is reasonable. It's the only one that urgently needs to be changed as it's the only one that's flat out broken. A few others might be a tad OP but they aren't actively hurting the game in the same way eruption is. Eruption is ridiculous and just feels awful to go against in addition to being insanely overpowered.
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Give up and go on to the next game. Tunneling a weak survivor is a guaranteed win against an average solo queue team. Comp survivors who can run the killer for 10 minutes before going down do not exist in solo queue. Which is exactly why tunneling is so strong and essentially playing the game on easy mode. The average player can't handle it unless you're in a four stack where people know how to play optimally.
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Trolling aside I have no idea how anyone enjoys playing nurse at this point. Every game is just survivors asking you to kill them and/or immediate dcing. People actively refuse to play against her in my solo games. I was playing with my casual friend last night and the game's completely functional MMR system put us against a prestige 100 Nurse with a full meta build. The two randoms just immediately gave up. It's non gameplay.
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Thankfully the game's player base has declined 7.5% in the last 30 days. The new chapter is even having trouble reaching 50k during weekend peak hours. Hopefully the honey moon phase is over and we start to see bigger declines. That's the only time companies make real changes. The current meta is already boring and needs to be changed ASAP.
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The devs still haven't nerfed nurse and alchemist ring. Maybe in ten years they'll do something about eruption.
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@Pulsar said:
Currently Knight does have the lowest Kill Rate on nightlight.
Take that as you will. I'm not sure I can put too much faith in it.
Is that site actually accurate? The average kill rate they currently have for all killers is 6.5% lower than the official ones.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
So i haven't been able to play much and when i played it was mostly killer
I did not face a facecamping knight
Can somebody explain me just how he is good at facecamping? Cause i don't really see it.
His guard dissapear when you touch a hooked survivor. Seems to me that all you need to do is touch the hooked survivor and then he's just a m1 killer camping that you can easilly trade hooks with.
What am i missing that makes him that much more effective at camping?
Go up against a basement knight and you'll know. I faced a 13,000 hour streamer the other day who was intentionally doing this strategy. It was not pleasant at all.
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I can't believe people are still trying to say Prove is a strong perk. It's only good in end game 3 gen scenarios. Beyond that it literally encourages you to play in the most inefficient way possible. Grouping up on gens is BAD and only benefits the killer. Anyone who played killer for more than a few hours knows this. Prove is like old BBQ. It's a perk people bring for the BPs because you get so little for repairing normally. With prove you basically get a free guaranteed 10k. If they buffed the amount of BPs you got from repairing solo then I GUARANTEE prove thyself usage would plummet overnight.
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He is awful to go against due to the optimal playstyle a lot of knights are picking up on. I got hard camped out by a 13,000 hour killer streamer last night. I turned his stream on and the first thing I hear is him talking about how basement is the only way to play the knight if you're trying to win. This is a horribly designed killer so expect a lot of DCs and hook suicides going forward. They basically created a basement god in an era where people are fed up with camping. Good luck to solo teams trying to get someone out of the basement against this guy.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with camping in the end game but the knight is way too good at it. He's almost at a Bubba level of camping. This is the kind of design they should be moving away from. Going forward I don't think anyone will even bother trying to rescue against him in the end game. You're basically dead if you get hooked at that point.
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Imagine believing this game has an actual functional MMR system. I've gone from being matched with OhTofu and Ralph to trappers with 30 hours in back to back games. MMR is just something people use to inflate their egos even though they have no idea what it is or how the system actually works.
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Suiciding is a way bigger problem than straight up DCing. Why you can even give up on the hook is beyond me. People should be forced to eat the DC penalty if they want out that badly. A lot of people who try and kill themselves on the hook will play out the game if you unhook them before they succeed. At least in my experience. I also think people giving up is a sign of bad game design from the survivor's perspective. Killers very rarely DC when compared to survivor. There's obviously something in the gameplay that a lot of people don't find very fun. Probably the rampant tunneling and facecamping.
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I like watching people trip over themselves finding ways to defend this ridiculous perk. People either never play solo queue or they are trolling. There's no middle ground.
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Maybe they messed around with it. Either way I don't play as much because it jumps around so much. Kinda frustrating.
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I understand what you mean about bad players being able to win games they don't deserve. I've lost so many games solely due to regression perks. Games that the killer would have gotten zero kills on in the past. It's amusing that there are people who actually try to argue that the current regression meta is healthy. It's extremely oppressive when combined with the longer generators and overall killer buffs. Eruption in particular is uncounterable in a solo team. Even teams in tournaments screw it up if you care enough to watch those. What exactly are normal players who don't have 10k hours or discord supposed to do?
Another thing that is constantly mentioned is how regression perks are essentially jack of all trades perks. You don't need even need aura perks anymore because almost all of the popular ones give you all the info you need. This opens up room for even more regression perks. Deadlock tells you where you need to be. Eruption tells you where you to be. Call Of Brine tells you where you need to be. Don't people realize how ridiculous this is? Never mind the insane 25 second incapacitation status. I'm starting to get old dead hard vibes from the current regression meta. In the sense that it's clearly insanely OP and many people who only play one side refuse to even acknowledge it. I would take the old pop/ruin meta any day of the week.