I_CAME
I_CAME
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359070#Comment_3359070
Not fully ture there are plenty of maps still that have many strong loops were multiple chases and downs just won't happen fast enough aginst decent survivors. There's items and perks that can make the first few gens go by so fast that wit in 2 minutes your already almost at end game and you've only had one chase.
One big misconception is only top survivors are a real problem when thos is not true because most killer player aren't otz we are just some person thay like playing killer for a few hours and don't want to have a sweat fest every game.
I see alot of casual player stuff thr9wn around on these forums and in videos but it's almost never talking about the casual killer. Most survivors shouldn't have to have every map memorized to play effectively, I agreee but why is it expected for every killer to know every map by heart or they just suck and need to get better.
Average players should not be able to win a large majority of games. People who put serious time into the game should be able to. That's how investing time into anything works. Otz just did a week of strict no tunneling and no busted builds where he won 81% of his games. I watched a comp player do an even harder challenge where he didn't tunnel, camp , or even slug. He 4k'd on all killers except two. I think there is sufficient evidence to say that it's not necessary to tunnel if you are sufficiently skilled. Some people don't want to admit it because it bruises their egos. If people want to tunnel because it makes the game easier then fine. I just want some players to stop lying and saying it's necessary when it's clearly not. I want people to admit they do it because it's EZ MODE.
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All this video proves is that a sufficiently skilled killer can defeat dead hard against COMP SURVIVORS. Now apply that to ordinary survivors who are much less skilled. gg ez.
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@Peanits said:
I'm not going to try and convince you that one system is better than the other. That's ultimately up to you to decide, nobody can tell you how you feel.
HOWEVER, I will fact check those key points.
- The softcap is not easy to hit. We've stated many times that the distribution of players across MMR looks like a bell curve. There's very few people on the extreme low end, a lot near and around the middle, and then very few people on the extreme high end. There aren't many people at or above the softcap. Many people will claim to be there, but this is almost always incorrect. By comparison, it was much easier for people of all skill levels to hit rank 1 under the old system so long as they played enough each month.
- This isn't really the case. The matchmaker starts off very specific and gradually broadens its range the longer you wait for a match. The overwhelming majority of the time you'll be paired against people within a few points of your own rating. Folks who are at one of the extreme ends of the spectrum and playing during off-peak times for their region may have more variance between matches, but there's only so much a matchmaker can do (it can only work with what its got).
- Even if this is the case, the old system did not have any separation between Killers, your rank was shared between all Killers. I would hesitate to say that having some separation is worse than none at all.
- The system exists in a void. You never see it. You aren't rewarded for increasing it. You aren't punished for losing it. It is solely a hidden number to help find you opponents that are similarly skilled. If you decide to play more competitively to increase a number that you'll never see, that's totally fine and you can do so, but the system certainly is not encouraging it anymore than the old system which was actually shown to your before and after every match.
Again, not going to convince you that you should like one more than the other. Everyone wants something different out of matchmaking and nobody's really wrong.
Why can we not see our MMR? I've heard people say it's because it would lead to toxicity. People are already toxic and everyone is already convinced that they are in high MMR anyway. It would be nice to actually know where you stand.
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Won't happen. People need the ego boost of say "IM IN HIGH MMR" and also the excuse for why they lose "IT WAS BECAUSE THESE HIGH MMR TEAMS ARE UNBEATABLE!"
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I think upper middle to high level survivors are just better now. I can say from my personal experience that changing dead hard made me a significantly better looper than I used to be. My timing is tighter and I am much better at knowing when to drop the pallet and when not to drop it. Before I just relied on dead hard to correct any mistakes I made in a loop. You could severely misjudge a loop and still get away with it because of how massive the distance from old dead hard was. It was the definition of a crutch perk. Nerfing perks like DS and Iron Will also forced me to start using perks like windows in order to mitigate tunneling. As a result I now know every map like the back of my hand and can run most killers for a long time. Survivors are also much more likely to pound the gens than before due to how strong the killer regression meta is. You HAVE to be efficient to have any chance of winning in the eruption era. Of course actually getting four good teammates is rare so the game still isn't survivor sided in my experience.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356571#Comment_3356571
Mainly coz tunneling was made a lot easier after DS nerf and dead hard was almost dropped completely. Dead Hard usage has skyrocketed again and so has survival rates, on nightlight killers have a 54% average killrate, not much more than the 51-53% it was before the buffs.
Nightlight is not accurate for kill rates. I've seen a dev on here actually say this once before. The real kill rates are 61% at the highest MMR. Even when the update to buff killers was new the kill rates were very different on nightlight vs the official kill rate.
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It's a combination of ego and kicking someone when they're down. Usually heavy teabagging is done in situations where the game is completely one sided. You're already losing and then people teabag you relentlessly. For killers who are less skilled and less experienced this can happen quite a bit and feel discouraging. I try to make a point to never teabag the killer when he/she is having a bad game. Overall some people can handle it and others melt down. I have more than 3k hours in this game so I don't care about getting teabagged anymore. It's entirely different for a newer player who is struggling to get kills. There is also the ego aspect. Teabagging someone is essentially telling them that you think you're better than them and have zero respect for their game. A lot of people take that very personally even if it's not actually a big deal.
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Yes. Gen kick is still the easiest way to get a large amount of regression. You'll see COB, Eruption, Nowhere to Hide, Overcharge builds a lot. It'll still be brain dead but it won't be as ridiculously OP as it was.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
In 2700 hours I don’t think I’ve used Lightborn once.
Also it doesn’t even counter Blast Mine, you still get stunned (just not blinded).
I have a similar amount of hours and haven't used it either. I don't understand why people think it's necessary. If flashlights bother people that much then they could just dodge without wasting a perk slot.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353003#Comment_3353003
Just a question, Do you have any control playing as SoloQ Survivor?
I feel like killer is still better place than SoloQ survivor
It is. I have an 80-85% kill rate as killer in a typical month and a 40% escape rate as solo. People who say killer is harder than solo survivor are insane. Either that or they're just bad at playing killer and in denial. Dunning-Kruger effect is strong in the killer community.
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@Holkapolka said:
The people that are happy about the nerf will still lose and cry about PR+DMS next. Eruption did nothing against swfs and soloqs, that were better than the killer. You need to kick a gen, you need to down a surviver and in order to get the full effect survivers needed to repair that generator.
I dont care about the nerf as I prefere to use DMS+PR and deadlock over eruption. What makes me reallly angry is the fact, how they nerfed it and that people cheer this nonsense up. You will have a reality check after the patch, you will still go down in chase, you will maybe encounter a surveillance+PR combo and wonder how the KIller found you, despite your godlike map awarness, you will be angry that deadlock or DMS kicked in at 99% progress ,wasting 30s of your lifetime. Everything you hated about eruption is still in the game. But BHRV needs you to sell cosmetics, so they will hit everything with a hammer, that you dont like.
I love how people keep pushing this "it did nothing against SWFs" narrative when there is video evidence of high level comp teams struggling to deal with it.
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A lot of the time it's because one side brought the most broken build imaginable and the other side just wasn't prepared at all. It's why I wish they'd nerf OP things in general. Things like BNPs, tombstone piece, alch ring, etc shouldn't even exist.
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As much as I hate eruption I would agree that they definitely went too far with nerfing the regression aspect. They're making the same mistake they made with pop. Not gonna lose any sleep though.
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It's necessary to nerf it hard in order to stop the awful playstyle where people do nothing but kick gens for 30+ minutes. People abused it and it got taken out back behind the shed. Least surprising nerf ever.
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It's indeed possible to win the large majority of your games. There are dozens if not hundreds of streamers who do so consistently. Something people conveniently ignore when they cry that the game is rigged. It's easier to do this than just admit they aren't very good. Granted these are people with 5-10k hours. What I think it comes down to is you either have game sense or you don't. I sometimes watch comp players like Knightlight who win nearly every game they play regardless of killer/build. The biggest thing they do right is making all the correct decisions as far as macro gameplay goes. The average killer is terrible at this aspect of the game and makes horrible decisions consistently. I think this is far more important than mechanical skill.
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The funny thing is it doesn't really change much at all. Bad survivors are still terrible with the HUD. The HUD doesn't make awful players magically play better. The games you would have won before are still wins. It makes already smart survivors a bit better but it's not the astronomical buff that people are pretending like it is. At most you occasionally see a scenario that goes like "Ok the last gen is almost done so i'll go start the gate." Maybe a few more people escape every now and then because of it. More often than not it just pisses you off because you can see that your solo teammates aren't doing anything while you run the killer for five minutes.
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https://twitter.com/OtzdarvaYT/status/1621086597335879683
This is what he actually said if anyone is interested. So no tunneling is not necessary according to Otz himself. People love to misrepresent what he says. What he's actually saying is that tunneling is better than ever so people are naturally going to gravitate towards it. He never says the game is too hard as killer or anything of the sort. He didn't even mention gen rushing or regression being weak in his video that I can remember. People tunnel because it's easy mode. Especially against disorganized solos. I wish people would just be honest enough to admit that's why they do it. This whole idea that you can't win without tunneling is silly. It's also likely why some people are so desperate to see SWF nerfed. Since tactics like this have a much lower success rate against good teams. Good team = more second chance perks, better gen efficiency, better looping = less likely tunneling will succeed.
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@Blinckx said:
What a surprise huh? I can't wait until everyone realizes that this so-called QoL (which is a buff to both soloQ and SFW) without counterbalancing the game, will only lead to unbridled tunnelling/camping and will only ever get worse
As if killers aren't tunneling every game to begin with lmao. All of this fear mongering as an attempt to get HUD changes reverted. Tunneling can't get worse than it is when it happens every game.
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Reading these threads is always a laugh. I find it amusing how people tunnel and camp and then have the audacity to get angry that they get matched with sweaty survivors. My brother in Christ you're playing outside of your skill range because you used cheesy tactics to reach higher MMR. You made a conscious choice to tunnel all of those low MMR noobs and now your games are marginally more difficult as a result. This is a game where people are winning 100+ games in a row with Nemesis at the highest MMR. Doing well with mid tier killers is absolutely possible. There's only a handful of killers like Trapper, Pig, Myers, etc that are actually bad. You just aren't as good as you think you are. The number one way to know someone is bad is if they say something like "you can only win with Nurse and Blight" Even though the average kill rate is 61% at the highest MMR with every killer close to 60%. Even though people use other killers successfully in comp tournaments. Some people will go to any length to not admit they just aren't very good. If you are struggling to win while running the current gen regression meta then you are bad at the game. No ifs and buts.
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I always bring a medkit so I don't really care. Too many useless players who just boon over and over again. Hopefully nerfing it discourages these people from using it. Self healing will remain incredibly strong as long as medkits are in the game.
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The difference between eruption and dead hard is that survivors will be fine when dead hard gets nerfed. The survivors who are good enough to hit perfect dead hards will still destroy with sprint burst. I predict that people will immediately start crying about the other exhaustion perks once dead hard gets nerfed. Some killers on the other hand are awful and get hard carried by eruption. People know they're going to get exposed when it gets nerfed. It's like the below average survivors crying about losing old dead hard all over again. I can only speak from my experience but there are far more people who crutch on eruption than dead hard. Dead Hard at least requires some degree of skill to pull off consistently. Compare that to a brain dead perk where you kick gens for 30 minutes until all the resources on the map are gone.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
If the stomping of boons was baseline, CoH would have been fine.
The issue was not the healing, it was that it was infinite.
This is all they need to do. Just get rid of the perk and give killers the option to destroy the totem.
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Lol @ the people who seriously thought eruption wasn't going to get nerfed. It might be 3 months from now but at least I can take comfort in the fact that changes are coming. It's going to be a glorious day.
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People still believe MMR works? In my experience it doesn't at all. I have 3k hours in this game and I have gotten a 20k hour SWF in one game and then people who have no idea what they're doing in the very next. People who go on about high MMR are just doing so for two reasons.
- They're coping with the fact that they suck and going on about how they can't win against the 20k hour SWFs which they claim to face every game. These SWFs do exist but you certainly don't run into them very often at any level.
- They just want to flex and feel like they're amazing at the game. Even though the MMR is extremely loose and the highest MMR matches you with players of different levels of skill. Even being in high MMR is not a big deal considering how low the soft cap. This isn't like achieving Challenger in League of Legends.
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Killer doesn't need anything. Wasn't the escape rate was 38% with SWFs included? The solo escape rate was probably 25-30% max. People who think buffing this group means killer needs buff are being completely unreasonable. I'm convinced some people just play this game for some weird power fantasy and don't actually want the other side to have a chance.
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@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326705#Comment_3326705
To be fair, stacked slowdowns are a problem on any killer. Imho that is a stacked slowdowns problems, not a nurse problem
I'm not sure how this new Jenner's and Campbell's last breath will be, especially with buffed torn bookmark, but if it wasn't for them I'd say nurse is finally in a good spot
Which is exactly why they need to have perk categories that limit how many types of perks you can bring from one category. It should be two max. You can add second chance perks to this rule too if it stops killers from crying. No more DS, Off The Record, Dead Hard, Unbreakable stacking either. I think the game would be more fun for everyone if it had more of a skill element and less of a reliance on who brings the most broken build.
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It’s a needed buff for solo but I don’t think it’s as massive as people are making it out to be. I did get one big benefit from it earlier. I was in a game with one gen left and saw that the Dwight was on a gen. I was able to figure out which one it was very quickly. It made finishing it quicker than it would have been otherwise since we both would have likely been on two different gen. Something that’s easy for a SWF but not as much for solo. Knowing who is being chased is also nice. The only other thing I really want is some sort of indicator that the killer is facecamping. The main reason it works so well is because survivors have no coordination in solo. If you could see that the killer is resorting to cheesy tactics then it would tell people that two people need to go for the unhook. This would be a significant nerf to this kind of playstyle.
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@MeanieDeeny said:
I just want to comment on your comment on killer being so easy to win and survivor being more challenging etc …
Idk if we’re playing the same game, but I find this to be complete opposite. I started out trying to be a survivor main, and found myself more skilled and entertained as a killer. Idk about hours but I have about 1100 escapes and over 3000 kills. By dbd standards, idk if that’s a lot. I’ve been playing about a year…
I can’t take playing survivor seriously, because I think it’s very boring. And I hate that feeling of being hunted, I’ve also always played SoloQ.
As killer I have a lot of very skilled, very coordinated, SWF teams. I know I’m a good killer, but some days I’ll have teams so good that I’ll have 3 matches in a row I’m only 2k’ing. It’s definitely far from being un-challenging, and nothing feels better than a day of all 4k’s.
I can’t say for sure, but I feel like if you feel you are having easy 4k’s every match, you’re still facing babies. Even highly experienced twitchers get a lot of 2k’s because the teams are so good…
The part about streamers isn't really true though. Streamers win so much that they are routinely accused of tanking their MMR off stream. Someone calculated the stats for Otz and he wins around 80% of his games despite regularly doing challenges with bad perks where he severely limits himself. If you can win 80% of your games at so called "high MMR" while bringing bad perks then how hard is the game really? You should not win that much in a game with a functional MMR system. You should maybe half of your games at most.
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Killer is only hard if you make it hard by bringing meme builds while playing the weakest killers. It's a joke if you play to win. It's hard to lose if you bring the best addons and perks while heavily utilizing slugging, camping, and tunneling. It does of course require a basic level of competence. I think the dunning kruger effect is massive with the killer community in this game. A lot of people just aren't anywhere near as good as they think they are. Scott Jund was absolutely correct when he says you only get four truly good survivors in maybe 1/50 games. I want to see this server where everyone claims they only ever go against 20k hour SWFs every match. This definitely is not my experience in 3k hours playing this game.
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Nope. New player installs the game and is immediately matched with a 10k hour killer or 20k hour SWF. They proceed to get destroyed and never want to play again. It's especially bad on the survivor side because the killer will notice the low prestige levels, default cosmetics, low hours, etc and immediately hard tunnel the new player out. I still don't understand why killers get to see so much before the game even begins. It just lets people dodge until they get an extreme mismatch like this. It's compounded by the fact that new players have no second chance perks to keep themselves alive.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
What second chance perks were nerfed?
Post-rework Dead Hard is still incredibly strong, Borrowed Time got hard buffed, Decisive Strike got nerfed but Off the Record is just Decisive 2.0, all the exhaustion perks went untouched, Adrenaline went untouched, Unbreakable went untouched—what nerfs?
I don’t even see genrush builds that much aside from the occasional Hyperfocus toolbox gamer. Most people in my matches run Off the Record, an exhaustion perk (usually Dead Hard), Adrenaline, and Windows—aside from Windows I still see the survivor meta heavily leaning on second chances, with the occasional Prove Thyself that doesn’t do much anyways.
I don't know how anyone can say with a straight face that OTR is as strong as old DS. OTR is only good against proxy camping killers who are tunneling. A hard tunneling killer can completely delete OTR by hitting the unhooked survivor immediately. With DS you had to leave the survivor slugged for up to a minute or eat it. With OTR you also get deep wound so you can't even use dead hard with it. Old DS>>>>>>>>>>>>
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@H2H said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321352#Comment_3321352
This is the #1 reason I see survivors DC as well, by a huge margin.
Could it have anything to do with the fact that almost every killer immediately hard tunnels the first person they down? If you aren't an experienced looper with a bunch of second chance perks then you're guaranteed to die. I can absolutely see why this would frustrate newer players or players who aren't very good. Especially considering how awful the matchmaking is this game. What is the 300 hour Dwight supposed to do against the 5000 hour alch ring blight who is determined to tunnel him at five gens?
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Haven't played in several weeks. Feels great. Someone let me know when the next perk overhaul is so I don't have to deal with this ridiculous perk anymore.
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Survivors DC because they know they're immediately going to get tunneled which is the case more often than not. Killers have no chill with regards to strong perks and cheesy tactics these days. People would rather just DC and hope the next game is goes better for them.. You can't really counter it without being extremely good at looping which 95% of survivors are not. It's made worse by not having a good anti tunnel perk anymore.
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The gens fly because you're tunneling and putting no pressure on the gens. If you hard tunnel decent players then the others are free to do all of the gens at light speed. Don't know why so many killers don't understand this. As it turns out a strategy which relies on going after the worst player on the team doesn't make you better at the game. Shocking I know.
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Holding W is what you’re supposed to do. Why would you start looping before you need to? Run as far as you can and waste as much of the killer’s time as possible. Predropping pallets can either be a great strategy or a terrible one. If you have an efficient team then you shouldn’t hesitate to predrop pallets. A killer who doesn’t get downs has no pressure. Otherwise you need to make them last.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Why does this need a fix?
because it's boring sitting on the ground for 4 minutes? It's incredibly obnoxious because you've already won the game if you're in a position to slug for the 4K. At least let the slugged person give up after they've been slugged for a certain amount of time. The obsession with the 4K is weird and wastes everyone's time.
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Could just be random chance? The matchmaking in this game is barely functional and is extremely random from game to game. The matchmaking is so bad that people actually believe high level streamers/youtubers intentionally lower MMR off stream to get easy games. There's just no consistency to the system at all. In theory killers have individual MMR. If you lost like 50 games in a row then you should get absolute potato survivors. If you win a fair amount then you will reach the very low MMR softcap. This is where the system really stops working in my opinion. Once you reach the soft cap then you will get survivors of wildly different skill levels. One game will be the sweatiest team you've ever faced and the next could be a bunch of default cosmetic dwights crouching in the corner. Hens33 who has the longest SWF escape streak has a video where he explains why high MMR isn't real.
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Nothing survivors can do will stop tunneling. Killers make up their mind to tunnel at five gens before the game even starts. There's no reason people do it other than it's playing the game on easy mode due to there almost always being at least one guy who is average or below and can easily be tunneled out.
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@JoaoVanBlizzard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312304#Comment_3312304
Do you really think basement camping is going to end if Bubba leaves? it will only stop being sold if this rumor is true, but its camping problems depend on the Nerf of the devs, because there will still be a lot of people playing with it for a long time
Will still be less. Just need to look at how low the Demogorgon pick rate for proof. Attrition will happen.
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The worst part about it isn't even that it's OP or that it has incredible synergy with at least three other perks. It's that it makes games last 30+ minutes. The killer will immediately commit to a three gen at the start and it starts this boring war of attrition that just goes on and on. It's by far the worst meta this game has ever had. I would take ruin and pop back any day of the week over this current meta. Even DMS/Pain Res meta was much better go against since you could actually counter it by getting off the gen. There aren't even activation requirements for the current meta. You can just do it over and over again and drag the game out endlessly. Watch the hens video where he holds the game hostage until the time limit expires if you need to see how ridiculous it is.
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@VideoGameMage said:
I swear if we lose the leatherface license over another asymm game that will be dead a year after it's launch...do IP holders hate money?
If this happens it would surely come back. Like you said it's throwing away money.
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The amount of bad killer copium in this game is insane. Never have I seen a community where bad players refuse to admit that they're just bad. You've got streamers winning like 90% of their matches and people on here pretend like you can't win as killer. It's insane. Even when the evidence is there people will deny it. Is it narcissism or something else? Even if you ignore streamers you can look at the official kill rate which is over 60% at the highest MMR. If you can't achieve at least that then you are below average.
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The thing is if you actually took the time to test this i'd be willing to bet money that the time lost from a sprint burst is probably the same as the time lost from a dead hard. Dead hard just feels worse because you attack and feel like you were cheated out of a down. If dead hard was removed people would just whine about sprint burst being OP once survivors learned how to use it effectively.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302621#Comment_3302621
When survivors tunnel gens, killers tunnel the first survivor they hooked.
This is the biggest lie killer mains spread. I have over 3k hours in this game and I see my inexperienced teammates with no second chance getting hard tunneled at five gens EVERY DAY.
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The implication I picked up from Peanits in another thread was that they're going to do another perk overhaul. They said they didn't have time and plan to change perks in a future update. It's going to be another big overhaul probably since they mentioned wanting to change the meta every now and then. Probably in the next midchapter. So eruption is safe for now but I still don't believe it will last long term. It's an issue of when and not if.
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Most SWFs aren't good either. I don't get why so many killer mains pretends like every SWF is a top 1% comp squad with 30k hours. I feel like i'm watching a tru3talent stream.
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They said they didn't have time and planned perk changes for a future update. Disappointing but at least they're acknowledging that they plan to look at perks soonish. I still think it'll get nerfed but the question is how long? Next chapter? Next midchapter? Next midchapter is more than three months away. Do we REALLY want to wait three+ months for perk changes?
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Of course the merciless killer change happens after I already have all the killer adepts.
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@Mew said:
this doesnt really change her power level, nurse players will just run quad slowdown every game now
Is this really worse than being slugged at five gens by an exposed build nurse with 7000 hours?