I_CAME
I_CAME
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266085#Comment_3266085
Most killers don't just camp survivors out of spite like the devs think. Pop, ruin, DMS, Thana etc. are all nerfed now, and survivors are complaining about the remaining gen defense perks. Why would killers bother with chases if they just slowly keep nerfing every perk that stops the gens from getting done too quick.
The new perks are way stronger than the old ones. Ruin was instantly cleansed out of every game by good or even average teams. Pop required the killer to hook and then travel to a gen to pop it. Eruption gives you info, regression, and makes the survivor unable to do anything for 25 seconds for the same level of effort. It's way stronger than Pop or Ruin were pre-nerf.
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I don't find the basekit changes to be that big of an issue. Maybe take away the basekit STBFL considering how strong the actual perk is. There's a reason so many people run it. The real problem is how oppressive gen regression is. Especially against uncoordinated solo teams that aren't playing at 100% efficiency. Throw on Eruption, Pain Res, Call of Brine, Deadlock, etc and you will win nearly every game. It's not just the regression that's a problem. It's the amount of info the perks give the killer. You don't even need to run aura perks anymore. I see almost zero variety in my games. Every killer runs the exact same builds. Not the meta shakeup they probably had in mind. Most survivors will just DC or kill themselves on the hook since they can't keep up on the gens. The current gen regression meta is much stronger than the old one. Pop and Ruin were nowhere near as oppressive as the perks we have now. Ruin could at least be cleansed out of the game. Pop required the killer to at least get a hook and then travel to the gen.
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I have nearly 3000 hours so yes. I am above average at survivor and proficient on most killers. It's probably 50/50. Maybe slightly favoring killer. You can really tell who is a troll/only plays one side when you browse the forums. Some people on here are absolutely ridiculous when it comes to discussing balance. I've played A LOT of survivor since the killer buffs and I definitely understand how hard solo is for an average team.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
COB and Overcharge are mostly fine imo. Overcharge is pretty weak assuming there's a survivor constantly harassing a gen and hitting the skill check (which any good survivor should be able to do consistently). Eruption is definitely very strong, especially in solo Q, where it's near impossible to tell when someone's about to go down. 10% regression on top of 25s of being completely useless is very strong. If anything, the % regression should go up and the incapacitated should go down; something like 15-10 is a lot more reasonable.
Most survivors aren't good though. People miss it constantly which is why it's too strong against solo. The game shouldn't be balanced around good players when they aren't even close to the average. The average player is very mediocre.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260202#Comment_3260202
Tunneling survivors is not inherently toxic. It's the only way to win at high MMR.
Survivors have never worked a generator to 33% then gone around the map and worked every generator to 33% before trying to finish one generator. As the killer you should not feel the need to play by a restriction that survivors do not follow.
Hooking one person three times is half of your expected goal. Hooking three people one time is nothing.
Everyone knows there isn't actually a high MMR where you consistently go against good players. I think this has been proven a million times over. Saying "high mmr" is just ego inflating nonsense. MMR is no different than the old ranking system in terms of how many good players you go against. If you are actually going against a team of four good survivors then you are going to lose if you tunnel an insanely good looper. An actual efficient team is going to destroy the gens in minutes if you are tunneling a good player without putting pressure on gens. Maybe you come away with one kill against ACTUAL GOOD PLAYERS with strong toolboxes.
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cant progress on the rare toolbox challenge. basically cant progress through the rift at all.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
Unless someone is playing professionally as killer and clocking in tons of hours, getting 12 hooks or 4k without tunnelling or camping nearly every game is highly improbable.
However, it's not correct to assume the only way of getting it otherwise is playing against "potatoes" (I really dislike that word). It's just not something to expect consistently. The more practice you get, the better the chances.
Yet don't let people put you down by complaining about tunnelling or camping. You bought the game, so play it how you like. In some cases it's the best course of action.
That's the issue though. People will flat out claim that it's IMPOSSIBLE to win without camping/tunneling because THEY can't do it. Even though there is evidence of very good killers winning without these tactics. Yes you need to be good but the way people claim it's impossible is ridiculous. It's more accurate for them to say they aren't good enough to win without camping/tunneling. Saying that it's impossible is objectively incorrect.
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@OniWantsUrLocation said:
This game is not designed that way. You simply can't get 12 hooks without tunneling, camping, and/or slugging. The devs don't want you to get 12 hooks anyway. Their goal is an average of 2 kills per game. You say that you can't get 12 hooks against good survivors, but I would say that you usually can't get 12 hooks even against average survivors.
Except it has been done. A player called Knightlight did it and streamed the entire thing. He 4K'd every game with zero tunneling, camping, or slugging. The only exception being 2Ks on huntress and sadako. Anyone saying "but he's a comp player!" is admitting they just aren't good enough at the game. It is very much doable if you are good enough. "I can't win without camping/tunneling" is copium for people who are bad at the game but have too much ego to admit it.
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@Little_Kitten said:
To the players who say that the nurse has no counterplay: I would be very interested in seeing videos of games where we can see you playing against nurses 😁
The nurse HAS counterplay. Obviously, more complicated to set up, and requiring more precision and concentration, but she HAS them 😉
And don't ask me which ones, the players (and not even necessarily hand nurses) have developed them enough on this forum.
However, suicide or alt + F4 when you come across a nurse who plays like a ******, like full tunnel / camp / slug / etc., I totally understand.
It should be remembered, however, that now that her range addons have been corrected, her has become much easier to deal with 🤗
So, train and improve 🤗
There is no counterplay against a good nurse running meta perks/addons. Alf wouldn't have a 500 win streak if there was. I'm aware that you can counter average and below nurses because I do it all the time.
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The problem is people always move the goalposts. First it was "let them show us data for high MMR and then we'll talk". Now they've shown the data for high MMR and it's the same people acting like stats don't matter at all since the data didn't give them the answer they wanted. People only see what they want to see and stats will never convince some people.
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@MrPenguin said:
Well, at least we can put to rest that GF is a weaker Myers and that Myers is nowhere near the worst killer in the game.
I don't know why he's rated so low to begin with. Myers is only the worst killer if you don't bring any addons. The thing tier lists never mention is that EVERYONE who brings Myers either has a tombstone piece or infinite tier 3. Like it's almost guaranteed.
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In short if you can't achieve at least a 61% kill rate at high MMR then you are just bad at playing killer. Pretending like you go against comp teams every match is nothing but a cope.
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The solution to tunneling is getting good. I was tunneled twice yesterday and the killer got one kill both times. Literally threw the game to chase me for five gens. If you're better than average you will at least have the satisfaction of knowing the killer lost because of you. I don't think you can do much to stop a killer who is determined to tunnel someone out.
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I think Scott is right that it's not always a viable strategy. If you go up against an actual good team like everyone claims they go against every match then you are going to lose if you tunnel one guy. The rest of the team is going to burn through the gens since you aren't putting any pressure on them. You might kill one guy but the rest will get away. Most survivors who get hard tunneled out are helpless noobs and tunneling wasn't even really necessary in those games to begin with. I keep hearing people say you have to do it at high MMR. I thought high MMR survivors did all the gens in like 3 minutes? How does tunneling counter that? A good looper is going to last a long time. An actual good survivor is not going to get tunneled out in a few minutes. They'll have dead hard, otr, maybe ds.
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You can tell a lot of games are lost causes and that's when I don't have an issue with hook suicides. I don't understand the mentality that people should play out unfun games that you are going to lose anyway. My problem is more the people who get downed by Sadako 30 seconds into a match and immediately DC.
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@Fred_krueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215083#Comment_3215083
Every 20+ person I have seen is better than the casual 1-3s.
Obviously a level 80 plays ALOT
I don't know why certain people fight so hard to push the narrative that there is zero correlation between play time and skill. People legit acting like a prestige 80 isn't going to be significantly better than a prestige 2 on average.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206192#Comment_3206192
Who are the people doing this? Where I can I find them?
Otz isn't the best killer I've seen, but I am not seeing anyone do what you are describing other than absolutely cracked Nurse mains.
D3ad Plays did a 100+ streak with Nemesis in the MMR era so maybe that's what he's referring to. Not sure where the streak ended or if it's still ongoing. Not sure about the other.
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Otz could do 90%+ win rate if he wanted to sweat. He plays nice and routinely uses suboptimal builds for content. There are killers like Knightlight who show how strong killer is when played by a good player who doesn't care about being nice. What the Otz stats show is the idea that you need to tunnel and camp is nonsense. Other prolific killers like Scott would agree with this. "I need to tunnel" is just copium that mediocre killers use to justify their playstyle to themselves.
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The MMR system does not work well and nothing will convince me otherwise. When I SWF it's with extremely casual friends. We probably lose 8/10 games because the game matches us with killers who have 4k hours, full meta builds, etc. Yet we never manage to fall far enough to get paired with more casual killers. When I was new I got a lot of variation in the skill of my opponents. This was under the old emblem system. Now it's nothing but sweat even though we don't win enough to justify it. I have no issues winning most of my games as killer but survivor is just completely unbalanced for me.
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@Nick said:
You name veeery onorthodox perks no one uses. Remember that he made this with Hens and they both play at a very high level. Any perk at low level is "Excellent" with 5 stars. Not a single comp player will ever use the perks you named.
This is the DBD forum. People here obviously know more than a guy with a 300+ survivor escape streak and a killer main with 10k hours.
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I love it when bad killers exaggerate how good survivors are. "I AM A HIGH MMR GOD WHO ONLY PLAY AGAINST COMP TEAMS EVERY GAME!". There are literally videos of objectively high MMR streamers 4King on nearly every killer with zero camping, tunneling, and slugging. Some of you guys are just lacking in skill and need to grossly exaggerate how survivor sided the game is in order to cope with your own shortcomings.
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I don't think they should do anything extreme. Just give people once chance to unhook themselves and remove the skill checks in stage two. Raise the level one DC penalty to like 7 minutes. Make it so people are forced to eat the DC if they want out of a game. Even an AFK survivor is preferable to one who DCs because it provides a temporary distraction.
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@Ayodam said:
If you’re a regular player, it seems unlikely you’re facing 4-man SWF every game. That’s like 2% of all games, according to BHVR. But I also know it’s very unlikely you’re facing solo queue players every game, as it’s enormously difficult for solo queue players to reach mid to high MMR. So maybe you are facing a lot of SWFs.
In any case, killers absolutely camp and tunnel at low and mid MMR—quite often. So it’s not really a high MMR thing. Killers do it because it’s super easy, cheap, and allows the game to snowball really fast. Survivors play SWF because they’re very easily crushed as solo queue players. If killers eased up on solo queue players, and stopped sweating/tryharding, then survivors may feel more comfortable solo queueing and you’d see less SWFs at higher MMRs. But because all that matters to killers is the 4K, you get what you’ve got.
In a way, you created this beast. Now you must Nurse it.
No one plays against only elite SWFs. Not even the sweatiest streamers who play in comp tournaments. I've seen many of them even ADMIT that the only reason they win so many games is because of how weak "high MMR" competition really is. People saying they play against nothing but SWFs is just a lie. Especially considering how low the MMR ceiling is. I don't know what kind of agenda people are trying to advance when they push something so obviously untrue. I think the leaks revealed that high MMR is more like a top 25% than a top 1-2% that people seem to think it is.
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@TeleportingTurkey said:
Average nurse is fine too, but people are still whining about "good nurses that never miss their blinks"
Good nurses are not rare though. The insanely good ones sure but not serviceable ones. Most people have caught on to the fact that nurse isn't that hard to play adequately. The big problem with nurse is you can slap on OP builds and any average player can consistently 4K. The complains are very justified.
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Literally all they need to do is make her post blink attacks special attacks. This will completely kill this issue.
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@LittleBigSunset said:
I feel like people are underestimating how long 45 seconds is.
In the present your scenario means that the slugged survivor is a 1 tap heal (because they've had long enough to recover) under that pallet. Meaning that the person distracting you can either throw the pallet and heal them on the other side or someone else comes in to get the heal. Either way that person on the floor is getting up when you are against competent survivors who are trying for pallet saves. All this PTB change does is make it so the survivor can get up themselves after a long time, but even then, what's stopping you from smacking them back down again? Or you could chase the other survivors off and injure them to make a pallet save much riskier, and you're given the time to do this with the 45 second timer. And in that case, you've got basically the whole team surrounding a pallet, which is brilliant pressure for the killer.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it plays out much worse in the actual game than it does on paper. But I think people are overreacting.
People overreacted in the same way about basekit BT. Even with 10 seconds and the haste effect we still ended up with a 61% kill rate. This was in spite of all the sky is falling talk about how OP survivors were going to be.
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61 percent kill rate and people think killer needs basekit perks. Lol.
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People hard tunnel in every game anyway so nothing is going to change there. People always do this and say a new change is going to increase tunneling. It's already out of control and can't get any worse.
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I get it and I also don't get it. Slugging is incredibly unfun for playing survivor. 2-3 minutes of doing nothing is not enjoyable so it makes sense that they want to stop this. On the other hand this is incredibly powerful in the hands of decent players. Anyone who has extensively played killer knows how much a single unbreakable can change a game. I think the issue of camping is a much bigger deal personally. I find it interesting that they're willing to give basekit unbreakable but not some sort of basekit mechanic for facecamping.
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Eruption needs to go. 25 seconds of doing nothing is not good game design. There's no reasonable way to counter it without being in comms and having a teammate tell you they're about to go down.
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The new movie actually has a decent director attached to it unlike most random horror reboots. I do worry that the politically motivated youtube critics will shoot this movie down before it even gets a chance.
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The thing is SWF death squads are not common at all. You can turn on any sweaty high MMR killer main streamer to easily verify this. High MMR killers do not play against good players every game. I doubt the extremely small percentage of teams this good are common enough to have any major effect on the escape rate. Like how many SWFs do you think are actually above the softcap? Maybe 1-2%?
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There is no incentive to stay in games that are a lost cause and/or unfun. Literally no one wants to play against nurse with an exposed build. Or a killer who immediately starts to ruthlessly tunnel weak survivors at five gens. No one should feel bad about trying to get out of games like that. They're only going to end one way and it's better to just move on to the next game. It's true that some people will DC against anything but 70-80% of rage DCs in my experience are justifiable. Most people are not rage quitting against Freddy and Sadako. It's almost always some lame crap that is unfun to play against.
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Killer buffs would be fine if they also nerfed the OP ones. Blight, Nurse, etc are just way too much in 99% of games when in the hands of someone who is even semi competent. A solo team or average SWF just can't keep up.
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It's literally 90% of Weskers at this point. If they are aiming for variety then it didn't work out with this killer. Give him a normal terror radius so we can stop seeing the same build every single game. It's not even about it being overpowered. It's just boring to play against the same thing over and over again. I'm not exaggerating when I say i've gone against SEVEN starstruck Weskers today alone.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191418#Comment_3191418
The problem is that while it can be tough to win as survivor, it is literally impossible to win as killer against a meta team. Killer should be threatening, not a toy that survivors can loop endlessly
Except these death squads are incredibly rare at any level. You can turn on any killer streamer who plays the game for a living to see the evidence of how rare they are. Even people at the absolute peak of MMR don't run into them very often. People have always exaggerated how many comp level teams there are running around just to strengthen their agenda. It's probably less than 1% of teams at most.
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I don't know why people act like there is no correlation between experience and skill. There absolutely is and I know this for a fact after playing this game for 3000 hours. There are certainly exceptions but more often than not the more experienced player is better. 9.5/10 times the prestige 40 is better than the prestige 2. Same with the 3000 hour survivor vs the 200 hour survivor.
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@Arbmos1998 said:
No this is not enough data at all to come to any sort of conclusions. We already know that majority of the playerbase for whatever reason is incredibly bad at this game, heck you still have Survivors who struggle to look behind them when in a chase of course these players die a lot and so they should because they are not very good at the game. You shouldn't be rewarded for playing very very bad.
This data doesn't show us the MMR, doesn't show difference between SwF or Solo which this data would be way more beneficial. But because BHVR have said Killers have 61% kill rate and Survivors have 39% escape rate Survivor mains are using this terrible data to support the bad take of "See! Killers are OP!" and massively overreacting.
If most people are bad then you should balance around them. It makes no sense to balance around top 1% death squad SWFs. Even at high MMR those types of teams are incredibly rare. Something that anyone who plays killer knows and something that the devs confirmed.
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@Bot_Salvo88 said:
From what I noticed there's a huge problem with matchmaking. This leads to very depressing matches. No matter how good you are, you'll get paired with bad players every now and then. Many people give up because they think they got zero chance to win since they feel like their opponent is way too strong compared to them.
This mentality is a bit stupid since it means that people don't want to try and win but want the free win in their table. If we all play with this mentality by simply disconnecting every time something doesn't go in our way, we'll never improve and the skill level will be low in general because nobody wants to improve.
Long story short: do your best instead of crying about it.
The MMR being as lax as it is now isn't much different than the old system. The alternative is a stricter system where you'd spend 15-20 mins in queue for a match that may or may not go well. People say they want it but I get the feeling 20 minute waits would get old quick. I would rather play something else personally.
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@Deathstroke said:
Yeah they need to buff soloQ immediatelly and maybe revert some buffs killers got. I think reducing survivor speed bonus after hit was unneccary so that should be reverted back. I hope we get BBQ bonus back for killer as now if you want more bp you have to play survivor. Right now you can earn as killer 20-35K usually. But as survivor 30-60K.
The problem is ridiculous changes like making killers recover faster from successful M1 attacks. Does literally nothing but benefit facecampers when paired with STBFL. All killer needed was dh nerf, longer gens, and faster pallet breaking. The rest was overkill.
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The only killer that consistently makes me want to DC. Just a bad experience. You hear that music and know the game is gonna last 45 mins due to the way 90% of legions play.
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If solo queue isn't bad then why is the incentive to play survivor almost always at 100%? Oh right because no one wants to play it. I wonder why no one wants to play it? Not even for double bloodpoints?
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The funniest thing about this thread is people still pretending like high MMR is real despite all we've learned recently.
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Eat every safe pallet you see and get them out of the way. When I play survivor I get a lot of killers who still don't understand that you aren't supposed to respect them. Due to this you can often get extra loops in because of the distance the killer loses by respecting. The only exception is if you're playing a survivor who always pre drops pallets. Also take advantage of survivor greed. A lot of good survivors are extremely greedy with pallets because they expect inexperienced killers to respect them. You should be able to pick up on a survivor's tendencies very quickly. You can get a lot of hits against greedy survivors.
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Often. I don't get the point of hoarding items if you are a mostly solo player. Especially now that everything is so much cheaper. It's not like you aren't going to get more. If everyone brought items it would make the game much easier.
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Wraith players tunneling is practically a guarantee. If a weak survivor gets downed first then he has no chance. Huntresses and Tricksters LOVE to proxy camp every hook followed by tunneling the unhooked.
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@ShrimpTwiggs said:
Yes, on both sides. Solo-Q needs some QOL buffs and DC's need to be looked at but I wouldn't call it unplayable. On the killer end, I don't think there are as many Super Sweaty Seal Team 6 Squads out there as they make it out to be. At least, not as far as I can tell. Some killers still need some buffs and maps should be tweaked, but the game is actually in a fairly decent spot IMO.
There's not. Pretending like every survivor team is SEAL Team Six is just copium for bad killers. If you are at the MMR softcap then your opponents can range from like 1400 scrubs to 2400 god level SWFs. You get insane variation at high MMR.
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Yea Eruption is way too much for solo queue. I've lost count of how many RPD games i've played where the killer just patrols the middle gens and the game goes on for 45 minutes. Not exciting gameplay at all.
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@Veinslay said:
They're definitely good sweat indicators IMO. It helps me with lobby dodging since I'm on console. I nope the hell out when I see prestige 40+ Claudettes, Neas and Fengs
Yea I don't know why people pretend like there is no correlation between hours/prestige and skill. When I play killer a team of prestige 20s-30s is always better than a team of people who are prestige 3.
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@Shroompy said:
how do you know you're high mmr
There is no functional MMR so whether someone is high MMR doesn't matter. I think most people who play the game for a living have gone on record as agreeing with this. People with 6000 hours get matched with people who have 100 so no one should be flexing their "high mmr" status. It only takes around 50 wins to get there anyway.