I_CAME
I_CAME
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@cogsturning said:
It's the lack of decent teammates, yes. I've been playing 2v8 constantly this last week and even though the invocation throwers are beyond frustrating the starting with items is a huge buff. I've primarily been using the mode to farm items for my destitute main. I don't even have to search chests anymore. I can just hop on a gen and survive with what I brought with me.
But there are matches where you have people who go down in 10s and hand the killers instant pressure. Much like 1v4, you start to realize immediately when you're cooked. Add in trolls who die on purpose or who are AFK and survivor feels terrible very often. Nerfing killer won't help with this. I'm not exaggerating when I say I'm basically always one of the last people standing in my bad survivor matches and often have the highest score. Not because I'm good, but because everyone else is awful.
I fully realize that 2v8 is supposed to be a casual, fun mode and not supposed to be hyper-competitive with fully accurate SBMM
Problem is a lot of killers are duos on comms and they're not being casual. So the casual survivors are just free treats for them, and detriments to the decent players on their teams. I think people don't give enough credit to how powerful coordinated killer synergies are in this mode.
This is 100% why I stopped playing 2v8. In theory this mode should be massively survivor sided. In my experience I escaped more matches in 1v4 compared to the last few iterations that I played of 2v8. I don't think the devs realize how much bad players bring something down in this game. It's not just the whacky casual mode. It's the mode that is awful to play on the survivor side.
The general match quality of 2v8 has gotten lower and lower with each version they have released. I have witnessed personally how the quality of players on the survivor side has declined dramatically. You basically have nothing left but casuals on the survivor side and sweats on the killer side. It's just not worth playing anymore IMO.
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I gave up a few months ago and haven't played since. Match quality was already low. Same killers every game and non existent MMR. The current MMR rework has not encouraged me to come back. I didn't even play 2v8 or do the last few rifts which was a first for me. That's a whole separate issue. I've played DBD since 2020 and I think this year was the least amount of fun I have ever had playing the game. It's clear that the current direction of the game just isn't for me. I will keep track of the game. If there is a major shift in the way it's designed then I will come back.
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@Icaurs said:
The devs don't hate survivor but they ae more scared of changing survivor too much then killer.
Everything about survivor is watered down and is always a boring either useless or just uninteresting.
Anytime anything for survivor new comes out there is instant complain from killers and immediate nerf.
Survivors do the same sure, but they are often ignored, looks at Jason.
That's what happens when one side dominates the entire content creator landscape. They get to control the narratives. 500 Youtube videos about how a change is the literal end of the world and suddenly everyone is losing their minds. Survivor has nothing like that.
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Because playing survivor sucks. Terrible matchmaking with no consistency. Constant stream of recent killers that require significantly more effort to counter than they do to play. Lower rewards. Why would anyone WANT to play survivor in the current state of the game? Unless you have a regular group then I can not see any real reason. I don't think that releasing another strong killer while also nerfing BT and several survivor perks will do this any favors. I also have no doubt that the new killer will be dumbed down and turned into another monstrosity that any brain dead goof can easily win on. Otz already seems determined that the killer should go down this route.
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This will be the first time I do not take part in 2v8 and Oni is the main reason. Guy was in every damn match the last few times. The Nemesis zombies are obnoxious but Oni is just insufferable in this mode.
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In my experience this is every event nowadays. Good survivors stay in the normal queue. Event queue is full of casuals. I think the novelty of the game modes wore off for the serious players. It has really killed the quality of the matches. It's interesting because I have seen a lot of people thinking they are winning more since no one can bring meta perks. I think it's mostly just because the players are extremely bad in chaos shuffle. Like I can see a very observable skill gap that has nothing to do with perks. I go to normal and everyone is slamming gens like they are in a tournament. Go to chaos shuffle and it's people doing nothing and hiding in corners. The general game sense that players have in the regular 1v4 is also miles ahead.
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It's for two reasons. The first is that the killer main community whines significantly more despite being a much smaller portion of the player base. Go on reddit, twitter, or any other form of social media and this is apparent. The second issue is that the content creator community is dominated by killer mains so most feedback is going to be biased at this level. The only people who do main survivor never discuss balance issues. People JRM, Skermz, etc who are more concerned with memes than the game itself.
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@GroovieAshes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100277#Comment_4100277
My opinion is that certain Killers probably have a Kill rate well beyond 60% and that's my theory as to why we dont get to see BHVR data.
That's my theory, maybe I'm wrong.
It probably goes both ways to some extent. I do not imagine Ghost Face or Skull Merchant having a high kill rate. Though I do concede that most are probably where they should be or even above. It does strike me as a way for them to avoid people asking questions about why certain killers aren't being buffed/nerfed. I would LOVE to see what Jason's kill rate is right now.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100214#Comment_4100214
Yeah and since when we got some solid data?
All they share is just friction of ig picture just one piece of the puzzle. They share only top 5 in two categories average mmr and top mmr but we dont see the opposite like top 5 worst from each etc. last time we got global data was 2021 (bet you forget it as you do) but now its just top 5 x2 categories for each role which doesnt tell that much in comparison I would say nightlight isnt much worse of a information than what devs gives us like one who has best data gives you one piece from puzzle board and another one gives you whole different but very simular puzzle board thats just it.
So to all nightlight haters here yeah devs gives us like top 5 characters from two categories for both roles and theres 43 killers now so its bit less then 1/8 of a info thats less then 12,5% so we only know the top but whats the bottom then or middle??? We dont know and we can just all guess.
Where knightlight just gives very close data to devs ones, not that accurate but its whole bigger picture and its more close to theirs then any other.
This has not been true for a long time. Their data has massively contradicted Behavior's data in recent stats.
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It is always the guys who play Ace. Often comp or comp wannabe types. I also can name a handful of these guys. Sometimes I will run into them several times in a single session.
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@coldflame said:
the recent unrestricted tournament event highlighted that killers, even with free choice of map selection piloted by top tier killer players can only barely hope to scrape a 50% kr against a swf pulling out all the stops to try and win
Am I the only one who doesn't see the issue with this? I believe the result was 48% escape rate vs 52% kill rate. Can you explain how this is horrifically unbalanced? This was with fast track too. Both sides brought the most broken setups possible and the result was… fairly even? How much do you think killers should win?
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@Mr_K said:
Guess ruin and thrill need more nerfs. They are proving useful.
Not like Hans is a comp player playing in public lobbies.
I mean this is pretty much what Hens is suggesting on his streams. He says that full hex builds are lose-lose situations for the survivors regardless of how they play it. If anything I would say this is the likely outcome to the Jason debate. There is no way they are giving a big license a significant nerf so soon. Hexes are probably on the chopping block.
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I really can't believe they are pulling this nonsense when they just had an all time high in player count. I feel like they would want people to enjoy the anniversary when they have such a massive audience tuning in. Between this and the event itself being awful.
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It's about half of what you got last year and that number was already massively reduced. They didn't do much of anything. It's still terrible.
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@DonZwiebel said:
Farming cakes has always been the best part of the birthday event for me. So this is pretty meh.
It's 95% of the reason anyone plays during the anniversary. Almost nobody is here for the terrible events themselves. All of those people coming back and thinking they were going to get a bunch of cakes only to immediately get slapped in the face upon booting up the game. I feel like whatever metric they're using to justify this didn't account for the huge amount of negativity on social media that we are seeing.
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People suddenly start caring about balance in the events the moment it starts to favor survivors a bit. What happened to "Chill out it's just a goofy event."? I ask because that's all I ever heard in previous events.
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I don't normally agree with content creators but I fully agree with Hens saying that full hex builds need to be nerfed. The argument being that Jason is not the real problem. He's just exposing an already existing issue with the game. I think hexes getting nerfed is the most likely outcome when you have a prolific player who is known to be in the content creator program openly saying this. Jason might get a slight nerf but I wouldn't expect much.
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The nerve to complain about this after how killer sided recent anniversary events have been.
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He will 100% get nerfed. It might not be a huge a nerf but it will happen. Otz and his hardcore group are getting dunked on by random Jasons repeatedly. These are players who each have 10k hours. If a full four man is losing this much against Jason then what do you think is happening to the average player? I guarantee you his kill rate is astronomical at the moment.
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@YaBoi0215 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088703#Comment_4088703
I can understand this. I can also understand lobby dodging to an extent. I mean I'll sometimes dodge a lobby when I load into a lobby of 4 people with 3-5k hours all with flashies and <3's in their name. I just don't wanna deal with it. But I do agree that maybe you should be locked into that lobby when you load in or maybe you're allowed to leave within the first 5-10 seconds and then after you can't leave the lobby.
I feel like this approach is a tad selfish. You're just passing the lobby off to another killer. Someone has to go against that lobby. It might be an experienced killer or someone who is brand new to the game… and all it really does in the end is make everyone wait longer. At the very least I don't think killers should receive so much info about the survivors. I don't understand why killers are able to see steam profiles and items to begin with. All it does is enable dodging that holds up the match. Same applies to survivors who shop for perfect teammates. Regardless I think they should do SOMETHING about it.
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The devs should stop listening to content creators.
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Damn that sucks. So devastated.
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@HommeBizarre said:
I want to hear what people think of Kaneki
What they like, and what they don't like.
I'll begin, his leap cooldown when not attacking is awfully low. Why on earth does he has the right to come super fast to you, get a 0.5sec cooldown and hit you for free.
Tbh, it's the only thing bugging me about him
This is by far the worst part about him. I remember when Hillbilly had basically no cooldown after a miss. Then Behavior very slightly increased his cooldown and it made him so much more manageable to play against. I really don't understand why they can't do something similar for Ghoul and make it take slightly longer before he can M1 you.
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Ignoring how inaccurate the stats page is for a moment… 61% all time. In the last version it dropped a lot and my 1v4 escape rate was actually higher. In the previous versions of 2v8 my escape rate was admittedly pretty high. Nowadays the average player in 2v8 is so bad that I actually started to have some pretty awful stretches to the point where I stopped playing the mode entirely. It gets noticeably worse if you play survivor after the first week in my experience.
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The matchmaking is not awful when 2v8 is active. It's what the game's matchmaking would be if it were functional. It's wonderful queuing as survivor and actually getting teammates who know what to do. I do agree that 2v8 sucks though. Although for very different reasons. The average survivor player in the mode gets worse with each iteration and I literally cannot bring myself to deal with it anymore.
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It needs new killers badly. This is the least I have played the mode. Every match of mine is Nemesis, Wesker, Oni. The zombies and oni in particular are two issues that make me not enjoy the current iteration. Four zombies needs to be reduced to three and Oni needs more than a slap on the wrist to prevent him from being the only killer people want to play. A killer that never leaves his power and has zero actual counterplay is not fun to go against.
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For me it depends on where I post. On the general forum my posts are usually well received and it has been that way historically. The feedback forum on the other hand is very clearly full of alt accounts that mass upvote each other and mass downvote anything they dislike. There is always a suspiciously high number of new accounts with only a few posts every time I go to that section.
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That Oni nerf did not do anything. He is still in his power for the entire match. I think he can work in 2v8 but he needs more than what you guys have done so far. This killer is by far the worst part of the survivor experience in 2v8 and the only killer I would say is actually problematic.
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I never thought I would want tombstone Myers back.
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@SkeletonDance said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069686#Comment_4069686
Sorry bro, but the game shouldn't be balanced around top 3-5 killers. Survivors objectives, perks and overall balance adjustments to the maps can't be made if we leave the strongest killers still in the game. If we balance them out now, then nothing will change. Strongest killers will still be strongest or even more stronger
I'm not even sure what he is so upset about. Even momo himself thinks that Blight is OP in his current state and has said that he fully supports the changes. There is a clip of him saying it from just a day ago. Interesting how the high level blights have no issue with the changes but random guy on the forums thinks they are too far.
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Please don't go back on this Behavior. It will take some time to get things right but it's a great idea if executed well.
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Man what a bad day for all the quad slowdown blights… This and the diminishing return change is a welcome nerf to that playstyle.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4068016#Comment_4068016
What exactly is the difference between solo and swf that the dev can actually tackle?
A chat wheel would be a start if you don't want to add full comms. Maybe a ping system as well.
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Blight. How this killer has continually evaded nerfs is absolutely insane to me. Even Momo will tell you that he's OP.
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They probably have some data that says player retention is higher if they give out less blood points. At least that's what makes sense to me. It could also be a response to when they made the bloodweb cheaper and then later buffed survivor BP gains. Who knows since they will never tell us their reasoning.
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Yea literally no reason for this to not be in the game.
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@cammoking123 said:
Disables during end game. Disables after "conspicuous" actions. Only lasts 60 seconds. I don't think DS is that great.
I don't even know why it's still disabled in the end game. You should be able to use the perk you spent a slot on and saved until the end of the match. I got DS'd in the end game plenty of times in the old days and I still don't see an issue with it.
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No. You can't balance the game around M1 killers when there are so many strong killers in the game now. Bring the higher tiers down to a more reasonable level and bring the lower ones up and then you can change the balance. Nowadays a "weak" killer is considered to be something like Unknown. It shows you how far killers have come in recent years when mid tiers are considered weak. I still prefer the option of less pallets spawning for weak killers and more spawning for strong killers like Blight, Hillbilly, Ghoul, Dracula, etc. I think that's a better idea than balancing the game around a minority of M1 killers like Ghostface and Pig.
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Momo is on his third nearly 2000 game winstreak with Blight. (I was a part of four of those wins!) Maybe he will finally get nerfed when the streak actually reaches 2000 wins in a row. Anything less and he clearly isn't too strong!
but in all seriousness… Can you imagine this sort of absurdity lasting for more than a few weeks in any other game?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Yeah. I've never particularly liked 2v8 but it's getting exceedingly old after the 7th time. Especially given how little changes with each iteration. Chaos Shuffle is close behind in terms of getting repetitive.
Where is Lights Out? Where is My Little Oni? Or any of the other game mode ideas they came up with in those surveys ages ago?
I'm not sure what is left to say about Lights Out. It has been the same story twice now. It releases and everyone complains about how it's the worst thing ever. Then the devs say that no one played it. Then it goes away and people ask when it's going to come back. Then predictably people hate it again… Why would it be different the third time? It seems like a failed game mode to me. It was one of those ideas that sounded cooler than it actually was in practice.
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Ask yourself why you would ever bring one over a medkit or a toolbox. Still a dead item as long as it has low value in chase. No one will ever voluntarily bring these over better items.
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I've been trying to raise awareness about this for awhile. It basically leads to old skull merchant gameplay and creates this boring war of attrition. I don't know exactly what the solution is where it wouldn't piss someone off but it's not sustainable and is killing what used to be fast paced and relatively exciting gameplay. The gen lock is strong in 2v8 because you have two killers who can effectively just commit to one specific portion of the map and endlessly kick gens. 2v8 is a significantly worse experience because of it.
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Nerf Oni
Do something about old Skull Merchant gameplay that has infested the mode. It has turned the fast faced gameplay of 2v8 into a boring slog.
Remove 1 zombie from Nemesis
That's all I want. Do not care about whatever else they do.
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We can do this after we look at how every game is a skull merchant simulator now. KICK GEN KICK GEN KICK GEN KICK GEN KICK GEN. Repeat for 10-15 minutes towards the back end of a match until you win the war of attrition. Enthralling gameplay that makes me want to play more survivor!
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/464171/decrease-gen-kick-limit-on-2v8-to-4-or-5
No thank you, as quickly as they get done. Absolutely not. I hard disagree with this.
It's bad for the mode. Every single game at the end is just ten minutes of gens being kicked. It's like a repeat of the old skull merchant. Buff killers in some other way if you must but endless gen kicking is not the answer. We moved past this nonsense in 1v4 for a reason.
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The way every game turns into a ten minute gen kicking match at the end is a bigger concern IMO. Oni is annoying though.
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@terumisan said:
streamers are probably smurfing but if you watch tru3 you'll learn some things
True is horrible for someone of his experience level. Go watch someone who is actually good like Hens if you genuinely want to get better at the game.
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Yes? I get at least one every match. I don't understand how anyone has a problem with this assuming you have any amount of experience getting flashlight saves. It's not difficult if you understand the timing and have the muscle memory.
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@SoloQIsHell said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/464058/2v8-is-not-fun-for-killer-anymore
And somehow survivors in my team won't repair a single generator besides me. What the fxxx is going on?
I dead ass win more in 1v4 solo queue than in 2v8 now. I want these easy 2v8 survivor games that I keeping hear people talk about. My 2v8 teammates are the worst players in the entire game.
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Apparently most people don't agree judging by the 30 minute queue during prime time hours.