I_CAME
I_CAME
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Nerf the top 5-6 strongest killers and buff the weakest killers. Tighten matchmaking slightly so we don't get 50 hour players getting matched with Otz and Hens.
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@Nazzzak said:
I don't think they'll be tightening it. Last time they tried even just a slight tightening they got backlash from content creators. Happy to be proven wrong but I doubt it. My guess is they might just change how MMR is gained and removed. Maybe base it on hooks and team contributions? Who knows
They need to. Last time I played I was with my extremely casual friends. (like a few hundred hours.) We literally got matched with Momo in one of our games. There's bad matchmaking and then there is this. Bowing down to content creators IMO is one of the worst things about the current state of the game.
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@Rogue11 said:
maybe after a 3k winstreak they will look at him again
I have now played against that guy four different times. Every match we got wrecked at 4-5 gens. Each game was just absolutely misery. He streams 24/7 at this point so he is sort of hard to avoid if you are on US East. He's closing in on his third 1900+ winstreak. I do wonder what is considered too much for this killer in Behavior's eyes. He's obviously extremely overpowered in the hands of a good player and yet they do nothing. I don't have any delusions about this either. Nerfing Blight won't have me suddenly winning against Momo but it would at least make the typical sweaty Blight match more interesting.
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Yes. It serves literally no purpose other than to give killers an advantage. Friends can coordinate builds before they queue up. The biggest advantage would be the time we'd all save. More time playing and less time spent waiting while people on both sides dodge.
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I agree that his FLOOR is low. I personally do not like many things that are easy to pick up. With that being said I actually like the new killer's basic design other than how much he can spam his power. I don't think a very slightly increased cool down after either a miss or hit would be the end of the world.
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@killerjuker said:
Welcome to the age of S+++ tier killers, ladies and gentlemen. BHVR has set a new record for their most overpowered yet simultaneously braindead easy to play killer to date. P1 killers with less than 10 hours are demolishing lobbies of P100 SWFs with thousands of hours per survivor with ease. By the time they reach P100, they will simply never lose a match if the killer is left in its current state. That is to say, extremely broken.
Yep. It's about making the killer role appeal to the lowest common denominator. Same reason they made filler pallets so terrible. The worst example of this was Ghoul where the killer literally plays itself. Then the first version of Krasue where it was so blatantly overpowered that even the most biased content creators thought it was ridiculous. Now we have the newest killer where being bad is not punished in the slightest. You can just miss repeatedly and it does not matter much at all. At some point Behavior realized that being good at killer doesn't matter as long as you FEEL like you are good. Making killers brain dead easy to play seems to be the new direction for the game. It's all about getting the casuals to play the role so they can sell more skins.
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It already takes 20 matches to work off a single point of the DC penalty. The hell do some of you want them to do? This game does not have an MMR system so a stricter DC system is not warranted until we get one.
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I played for the first time in over a month with some friends a few days back. In one match we got a brand new killer who had 18 hours on Steam. Then within five matches we got a P100 TTV Ghoul who had over 6300 hours. This is not normal for a PVP game. I just do not understand why anyone thinks these massive gaps in experience and skill are acceptable. What is the point of MMR if it allows scenarios like this? Is there not some sort of middle ground solution to this?
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Which is why resources should be based around the killer you are up against. Why should Ghoul, Blight, Hillbilly, Dracula, Singularity, etc spawn the same number of pallets as Ghost Face, Trapper, Legion, Pig, etc? Makes zero sense. You don't need a variant for every killer either. Just 2-3 tiers would be better than the one size fits all approach we have now. It would essentially be selective pallet density.
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@jedimaster505 said:
money
Thread over. That's literally all it is. Same reason they won't do anything about Blight.
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@Munky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040456#Comment_4040456
Because you manipulate your stats to your argument just as much as you claim the other guy doing it. I'll use myself as example: I have 80% KR on my low tier killer main as well… doesn't mean I'm good at it, not even close. I know for a fact that my KR is inflated because the majority of matches someone DC in the first minute/first down, which then affects the match outcome cause bots are fast/easy to catch. But for some reason everyone including BHVR is looking at that stat as if it means something…
The fact that you don't have this happening could mean a multitude of things, which has alrdy been discussed in other topics. Why would runningguy or me be lying about this? What could possibly be the purpose? I literally don't even play the game right now due to that DC epidemic. It's not worth my time to Q up for.
The Asian server experiment Hens did recently is ultimate proof that solo Q survivor is fine in terms of balance. It is literally just a western mentality/entitlement issue that ruins the game for us. People just don't want to hear that hard truth and look at the evidence for themselfs.
Just have 15k hours and be one of the best players in the world while also cherry picking which games to include in your stats. EZ git gud scrubs.
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The only conclusion you can logically draw is that they sell a ridiculous amount of skins on these killers. Blight in particular is so hilariously busted and the fact that he hasn't even gotten the pallet breaking nerf that Ghoul got is absurd to me. Just look at Momo reaching 1900+ wins TWICE now. It shows what he is a capable of in a game that supposedly has MMR. Were all 3800 of those survivor teams bad or is the killer just busted in the hands of a good enough player? (I was on one of those random teams that got crushed by him and I did not have a good time.)
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Nothing by that company is legitimate competition. It's a game that will last a year or two max before it gets shut down. For a game to really compete with DBD it would probably need to drop with 5-6 big licenses in it and be backed by some serious money.
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038696#Comment_4038696
this. from what i'm witnessing, the goal seems to be increasing in-game time to give you more exposure to micro-transactions, thus increasing the likelihood that you will buy something. this same type of tactic is deployed in a lot of modern games.
it's very similar to how big-name grocery stores have end caps at cash registers and self-checkouts. they want you to spend a dollar or two more before you leave.
This wouldn't surprise me but one has to wonder when enough is enough. I remember when the bonus used to be 100% consistently for me when one side needed players. Then it switched to usually being at 25-50%. Now we're down to 10%. It doesn't even stop at 1v4. We got less bloodpoints for the last 2v8 as well.
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@Classic_Rando said:
BP incentives have been broken for at least a year now and I doubt they are ever going to be fixed
They just want people to get less bloodpoints. It's an intentional design choice as evidenced by how they nerfed the drop rate of cakes during the anniversary.
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Yo devs read this thread. Actual great idea. You did it for the anti camp bar so I know you can do it for the wiggle bar.
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I was never a fan of the anti camp from the moment it was announced. It was obviously one of those things where people would never be able to agree on how strong it should be. Removing hook grabs and increasing the hook timer were sufficient to nerf camping down to a reasonable level. The anti camp just sort of exists and pretty much never comes into play in a normal pub match. I've only seen it activate a single time in situations when the killer wasn't deliberately trying to activate it. I just don't see the point of it when it doesn't do anything.
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Nerfing them was the right call. It's just that they went too far with the nerfs which is all you can expect from them at this point.
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You could stop removing things that are fun to use for starters. (Syringes, Styptics, etc.) It's ridiculous that killers get to keep things like Blight/Nurse but a few one time use items are apparently too strong. I have no doubt that toolboxes will be useless soon as well. All changes like these do is make the game more boring.
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I's 100% because of content creator whining. I am so sick of these guys seemingly having full control over the direction of the game. If you watched any of the top killer main streamers in the past few years then you would have noticed how they brought it up constantly. Survivor becomes more boring as usual. Meanwhile Blight, Nurse, etc are not problematic of course. The devs need to understand that changes like this make the game less fun overall. It's only a small minority of players that want this pseudo comp direction the game been heading in for awhile now.
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I don't even know why it got nerfed the way it did in the first place. You could have easily just reduced the effect down to two seconds or something like that and it would have been fine. Syringe could have had a similar nerf. This sledgehammer approach to everything is ruining the game.
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We're going to fix tunneling!
- Deletes best add-on to counter tunneling. I used this add-on almost exclusively to help people who were being tunneled. I rarely ever used it on myself.
- Heavily nerfs a top anti tunnel perk (not even 60 seconds like DS lmao)
- Makes loops terrible and makes it easier to tunnel
It's honestly hilarious how bad it is. The devs didn't just cancel the new systems. They made tunneling SIGNIFICANTLY stronger by removing some of the best ways to counter it. I am just fully checked out at this point. None of this is ever going to get better and I would rather just not play the game at all.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
I have a question.
If Killer mains used these polls showed earlier…. why did so few Survivors say it feels better?
I mean do the math… If we have 100.000 players (easy numbers) and over 80% are Killer Mains which screamed about the pallet density than we had around 80.000 Killers and only 20.000 Survivors, which means there are 4 times more Killer mains than Survivors?
Killer mains are just louder and more outspoken about balance in general. This isn't even something anyone can deny. You can see it literally everywhere. If they are making balancing decisions based on polls from less than 500 people on the forums then that is just embarrassing. It shows how they have no conviction and no idea what they're doing. I'll put it another way. Would you accept killers being balanced the same way?
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
"Health update".
Its always one extreme or another with these balance changes. Say Haddonfield is survivor sided and they gut it into a tiny dead zone. Says there's too many strong pallets on maps and they remove 90% of them.
Like what is the logic when making these decisions. How is this a healthy change.
They don't have any idea what they're doing from a balancing standpoint. It's as simple as that. They sometimes have ideas that could work if they gave them a chance but they always fold when content creators rile up the community and put any pressure on them. Then we end up with things like the current patch.
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Reminder there are people who legitimately think that the devs favor survivors.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030900#Comment_4030900
A similar thing happened with the hook states becoming visible to killers. They were clearly meant to be part of the anti-tunnel but still got released despite the revert, and they are absolutely a buff to killers as much as people brush them off. I bet you we see the same thing with pallets. They'll get reverted and the main building nerfs will stay. After awhile, it starts to feel like proposed survivor buffs are just a means to quietly sneak in killer buffs. And I say sneak because I think they'd have a much bigger problem on their hands if survivors became as universally enraged as killers.
They can do whatever they want and survivor mains will never melt down the way that killers do. The survivor player base is too casual and they know it. Killer mains treat the game like it's a job. Most survivor mains don't care how terrible the game is so long as they get a cute Sable cosmetic. I think the difference in how content creators operate really showcases this. Otz makes five hour videos about the game where he goes on rants about every aspect of game balance. Top survivor content creators are content to make videos about making the killer fall into a hole. It really shows how differently both sides view the game. Killer mains get to control the narrative because they are the only ones who even talk about it.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030776#Comment_4030776
I agree, but I'm not surprised because the devs are terrified of trying anything that doesn't benefit The Killer. They always revert it or go too far in the wrong direction. Boil Over change is a good example. All they had to do was either add Hooks to certain areas or reduce BO a bit, but instead they nerfed BO, added MORE Hooks, and added Hooks to new areas that never had them.
We can't have Otz making another angry video about how the game is literally dying.
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The problem is how the game is stuck in this weird middle ground. They keep gradually trying to balance the game like it's a comp tournament but they won't add a credible matchmaking system. This means that killers are free to beat up on teletubbie survivors with tactics that players of that skill level can't reasonably counter. I wouldn't really care about them not doing anything if we had a good matchmaking system that puts sweaty killers against sweaty survivors in nearly every match. I hope the MMR adjustments do something….anything really.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030605#Comment_4030605
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DRV6MXD7B01E/image.png
Yh about that…
Also I would love for you to show what "good looping" looks like.
People still quoting this worthless site. We literally just had the Japanese stats that showed the kill rate is over 60% without games with disconnects being counted.
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I really do like 2v8 but I quit playing it due to every game being Oni. It's not fun after awhile when you face the same killer over and over again.
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I want them to do it just so I can laugh in everyone's face when it doesn't work. I am so incredibly confident that it wouldn't work that I say bring it on.
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I would fully support it if it had more classes, maps, and more killers to choose from. I feel like that's the direction it's going in as well. I'd expect it to become permanent once that criteria is satisfied.
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That we need better matchmaking? I fully agree with him on that and that has always been my biggest problem with the game. I doubt anyone actually watched that far into the video though.
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I feel like a switch was flipped recently. The amount of down votes on everything is crazy. It happened around the same time 500 new accounts with only a handful of posts showed up.
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There's something both hilarious and sad about how Behavior can't even make a functioning stat tracker.
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My problem with tunneling is that 90% of the time it's done by people who play high tier killers. I frequently hear the narrative that it's "the only way to win" on weak killers. You are going to get destroyed if you attempt to tunnel good survivors on a killer like Ghost Face or Legion. I seriously can't even remember the last time a weak killer successfully tunneled me. Weak killers are bad whether you tunnel or not. It's the high tier killers that benefit the most from it. The sweatiest players are ALWAYS the ones playing Ghoul, Krasue, Blight, Nurse, Dracula, Spirit, etc. They're the ones who hard tunnel from five gens and stack four slowdowns against randoms in solo queue.
I tend to agree with Otz that they should have kept the last system and just toned it down. It would punish the degenerates who tunnel at five gens on Blight and give more benefits to the weaker killers who can't even utilize tunneling effectively. They had the right idea but as usual they caved to the morons who were overreacting. They did this instead of making sensible changes to the initial idea. Now we have this terrible system that nobody on either side likes.
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@Abbzy said:
Small ttv like this have high chance they will be toxic or annoyed by something you do and other thing is they play atleast with one friend most times or more so high chance for swf from duo to squad.
Nearly every small streamer I have played with has been toxic. I've played with most notable streamers on NA East and have never had a bad experience. Not sure what it is about the smaller streamers. Maybe there's a reason why they aren't popular
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@TheTom20 said:
But will the changes be even worse I wonder
It's Behavior. They will overreact and make ridiculous changes. Every map will be turned into Haddonfield before the pallet density update instead of just toning things down a bit. We'll be loading into small maps with eight terrible pallets and a million dead zones.
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@MoZo said:
i wish they would’ve just nerf the addons instead of flat out reworking them. nerf the syringe to 32s for the heal and nerf styptic to 2.5 or just a flat 1 second of endurance. there was no need to do completely new effects that honestly make them more of a hot topic. instead of having that intense 20-30 second window of “lock in or this syringe was worth nothing” we are now to “i stand still and instantly get my sb back.” or they could’ve made the syringe more risky and made it activate slower while being chased. anything but these terrible reworks…
This is what I was hoping they would do but it seems I gave them too much credit. I also really do not like how anything strong just gets nerfed. I understand toning things down but completely gutting everything or reworking it into something boring is not the play IMO. It just makes the game less fun to play when everything is weak and has no impact on the game. Which seems to be the direction they are going in.
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@MDRSan said:
I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m officially at the point where that threat doesn’t mean anything anymore because it’s been pulled out so often.
Let’s flip that around shall we? We can throw these changes away if they remove Blight, Nurse, and Ghoul from the game - sound fair? I personally like playing them sometimes myself but if it’ll stop the constant killer complaining then I suppose I could live with it.
Unironically this is what I wish they would do. Scrap all of the changes for all I care. Just do something about S tier and borderline S tier killers. It would make balancing the entire game much easier if they didn't exist.
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@not_Queef said:
It would probably work for a few hours, until the sweats realise that the only reason they're so "good" at the game is because they get matched with average solo plebs all the time. As soon as they start getting matched against turbo swfs and comp giga Blights every game, they will skulk off back to casual queue.
I tend to agree with this. A lot of people seem to think adapting the comp rule set would benefit them. Always ignoring that the players would be infinitely better than what they face in regular queue. The ego check would go crazy in a competitive mode. The people who win 70-80% of their games in casual would suddenly be winning maybe 50% of the time. I don't think most would be able to handle it.
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Here is what will happen.
- The crowd that said their main problem was the punishment aspect of the anti-tunnel will keep complaining. You will never satisfy these people and the goal posts will constantly move no matter what you do.
- Behavior will then walk back the changes even more and we will end up with with a system that doesn't do anything. It will be so useless that everyone will wonder why they even wasted development resources on it to begin with.
- The patch as a whole will just end up as a nerf to survivors. People are really glossing over the fact that they're about to kill off syringes and styptics. It's also highly likely that the pallet density changes could be walked back in the same patch. I don't mind Behavior toning it down a tad but we all know that won't happen. They will turn all of those maps into the worst version of Haddonfield instead of finding a healthy middle ground.
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I'm hoping they will not totally destroy syringes and styptics but who am I kidding. It's just going to be more useless junk that nobody will ever use again. Another thing to completely avoid in the bloodweb.
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In pub matches yea.
- All statistics favor the game being significantly killer sided. 63% kill rate with a significant number of games that would be survivor losses thrown out. Why are we still not counting DC matches or "low scoring" matches? It has to have a significant effect on the stats if they're trying to hide it from us.
- Matchmaking system overwhelmingly favors killers. The game never consistently matches you with good survivors. You can be a good survivor with an above average escape rate and still get paired with absolute potatoes. Literally the only way to counter this it to play in a SWF.
- Killer at their absolute strongest is almost always stronger than survivors in a pub match. That's why things like the 2000 game blight win streak or the 1000 game perkless nurse win streak exist. If survivor is so strong then why was no one able to end these streaks? Why did it eventually require stream snipers with builds specifically tailored to the play style of the killers they were against? Meanwhile the best survivors can barely break 200 escapes in a row before they eventually get ######### on by a random Legion or Trickster. Even various B tier killers have higher win streaks than the best survivor squads. If survivor is so strong then why is no one able to put together any insane streaks like killers have managed? Surely someone would have done it by now. Right?
- Devs have admitted they make the game killer sided by design. Don't know how much more clear they can be about it.
Give the game a strict matchmaking system and then we can talk. Until then enjoy beating up on teletubbie survivors and just start dealing with the 1/50 games where you actually have to play against someone good.
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There is only one problematic form of tunneling - Extreme hard tunneling. Hooking the same person three times in a row with that goal from the start of the match. Comp strategy that is used to achieve degenerate win streaks like the 2000 game Blight win streak. This should be punished with no compensation. I wouldn't care if we had a strict MMR system but the devs have made it abundantly clear that we are never getting that. Everything else is fair game. Most discussion about tunneling is just people whining.
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All I want to say is to please understand that a middle ground is possible when balancing maps. Actually try to make the maps fair for both sides. The goal should be to avoid creating more maps like the Haddonfield we had for the past few years. Shoe box sized maps with no pallets are ridiculous. Neither side should load in and feel disadvantaged from the start of the match. It feels terrible.
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The event item for survivors doesn't even seem worth it to me. You make way more progress just sitting on gens normally. There's no reason to get it except for doing the quest.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
The s-tiers running rampant setting a precedent every killer should be their level of balance because BHVR won't fix them. If the likes of Unknown are the perfect balance of fun for both sides, why aren't we aiming for there?
Kaneki ruined the blood moon for me.
Now I'm worried Krasue is going to ruin the Halloween event.and when it's not those two, it's Blight normally also with the occasional nurse.
Now it's more probable than I get one of these killers and I'm just encouraged to slam gens and play a victim simulator, coz I play mainly on my own while I draw on the side, with friends also on evenings.
I just want more consistently fun games, if they won't get rid of the s-tiers, the hyper mobility is what is enabling tunneling to be so prevalent. the ability to catch up and anti loop whoever you want if you are remotely competent as those killers.
If that was fixed I'd play so much more, but the ignorance of that, not giving killers the incentives from the anti-tunnel (and discouraging tunneling), the go-next prevention flop, the recent rift being really bare bones, I just don't have much incentive to play.
Meanwhile on killer the anti-tunnel incentives were the kind of breathing room I needed to play more creatively with builds, the extra speed to leave the hook, bbq to see my next target, some gen regression if I needed it sounded a good place to start and work on it.
We just need more action, more quality of life like was promised, but we are still waiting and waiting.100% this. I didn't even want 500 pallets on every map. Literally just do something about the S tier and arguably the borderline S tier killers and things would be fine. It's hilarious to me that Behavior's "solution" to over tuned killers was to make the game terrible for killers who aren't strong instead of just using the common sense approach. Even biased content creators like Otz agree that killers like Blight, Ghoul, etc should be toned down a bit. How they keep evading meaningful changes is beyond me. It would make balancing maps, perks, etc so much easier and better for the rest of the roster if you didn't have these extremely powerful killers messing it up.
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At first some people were trying to claim the nerfs weren't that bad. I'm not sure if i've seen them a single time since the nerf. Just one of the most baffling changes this year.
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I agree with the general idea. I would take reworks to the S tier killers over adding a million pallets to every map. It's true that the changes to pallet density have made playing against Blight and other strong killers a tad easier but I also agree that it has made playing as weaker killers extremely hard. Played a pig game recently and it was absurd how many pallets there were.