I_CAME
I_CAME
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@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399859#Comment_3399859
If you got gen locked for 45 minutes, it's called skill issue. I win also when I 3gen, luckily I play in a good swf
This would be a fine argument in your fantasy world where every survivor is in a strong SWF and are actually coordinated. In the real world solo queue exists and it comprises half of the survivor playerbase. A solo team can not break a knight/skull merchant three gen if they heavily commit to protecting it. Definitely not on specific maps.
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The Otz theory that someone on the dev team is a blight main becomes more and more convincing with every patch they don't nerf this ridiculous killer.
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Myers. He can't do anything against actual competent survivors if they are efficient and predrop pallets. A good team will have at least a few gens done before you ever reach tier 3. You might make it to tier 3 but they will play so safely that it won't matter. You might get a few downs at best.
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I like how people pretend like they don't know exactly why the gen kick perks got nerfed. Maybe you guys shouldn't have gen locked everyone for 45 minutes during every match if you didn't want it nerfed.
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I played her a lot over a period of 3-4 months. It got kind of boring because of how many people would immediately give up. I don't know how anyone can main nurse long term tbh.
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@Davenport916 said:
Yet you still come back to us. Not every game you get camped so stop asking for things you have zero knowledge of. Play at high level as killer and you see why camping is a required strategy sometimes
?????
High level? What are you talking about? Camping does not even work against actual high level survivors. They will immediately call it out in discord. An organized SWF can easily force trades as they can coordinate a rescue with two people. There isn't ######### you can do to stop them unless you are playing as Bubba or something. They will also most likely bring reassurance. Facecamping only works against disorganized solo players which is exactly why it's sort of problematic.
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The argument that the game is survivor sided revolves around a fantasy scenario that where all four survivors are extremely good in 98% of matches. It's extremely rare to see four extremely high level players in one game. Competent players are not rare but players who make no mistakes are. I wouldn't be rocking an 80% win rate on killer if everyone at high MMR was good. I very rarely run into games where I feel like I had no chance. It certainly happens but not to the degree that some people pretend it does.
If high MMR was really as hard as people say then you wouldn't see people winning 600 games in a row on killers like nurse and blight. Even lesser killers Onryo, Nemesis, Trapper, etc have documented 100+ win streaks in the MMR era. Killer is only hard if you bring meme builds and don't play to win. You have so many nuclear options as killer to stack the game in your favor. If you still lose with four slowdowns, strong addons, hard tunneling then it's a skill issue on your part. Saying every game at high MMR is a four man comp SWF is just a cope for bad players. To repeat what numerous comp players have said "high level play does not happen in public matches."
My opinion on this is biased though. I have over 3000 hours on killer which is far more than the average person who plays this game. I'm obviously not speaking from the perspective of a less experienced player. I can definitely see why more casual players would find playing killer to be difficult. Especially considering how easy it is to reach the soft cap and end up facing sweaty teams.
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Otz struggles? The same Otz who just won 80%+ of his matches with no camping or tunneling at all? I actually watch Otz and know for a fact that he very rarely struggles when playing killer.
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I haven't seen many the last few weeks either. It has been glorious. Unfortunately they decided to feature her in a rift for whatever reason. Expect to see more of her soon. Should have just skipped over her entirely tbh. This killer needs to die a quick death so we're not forced to endure more skull merchant games.
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@Veroles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394658#Comment_3394658
With that mindset you can not that is absolutely true.
Most SWFs are absolutely beatable too. I hate this false narrative that people push about how good the average SWF is. People acting like every SWF is a comp team where all of the survivors have 10k hours is ridiculous.
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@Viktor1853 said:
Nurse and blight are fine if you are good at survivor
That's why people have 600+ win streaks on both of them. Totally fair and balanced. In a game with an MMR system no less. Pretty sure 600 win streaks are more than an issue of git gud.
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I'm gonna be sad if this means they're eventually going to remove the BP bonus from prove thyself without buffing the amount of BPs you get from repairing gens solo. Survivor BPs are already insultingly low compared to what killers get. Especially considering there is never a bonus anymore. Most categories don't feel THAT bad but the BPs you get for doing gens are way too low. It feels bad to sit on a gen and only get 1250 bps for 90 seconds.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393185#Comment_3393185
No, I’m just a sweaty, good blight and survivors don’t like that. Lol
Probably because the match isn't fair. 95% of survivors are not equipped to deal with a sweaty blight. I'm assuming you also use alch ring whenever possible? An addon so ridiculous that even comp DBD bans it. It's almost impossible for a sufficiently skilled blight with a busted build to lose against randoms.
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@Bot_Salvo88 said:
That might be because killers who were at the top are leaving, and now lower level killers are being matched with high level survivors to fill that void and have low queue times. Could be wrong but it's a conspiracy theory and I like conspiracy theories :3
This doesn't make any sense. One just needs to turn on any well known killer main streamer and see that top killers win 80-90% of their games. Why would people like this be leaving? Did they get sick of winning so much and become bored? It's the less experienced killers who do the complaining and doomsaying. The real issue is the matchmaking in this game is just bad and always has been.
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@Mystic_Mizu said:
How in the actual world are people saying DH got buffed.... HOW did it get buffed? Please someone explain...
You can literally use it only 2 times and if you miss it, it deactivates until you get hooked again. 🤦
Like I said, killers won't be happy until survivors can use no perks, can't heal, and they can't throw down pallets.
This forum is full of insane people. I'm convinced at this point. Either that or they're just extremely dedicated trolls. Even reddit has more reasonable takes. They've nerfed everything killer mains cried about and they're still begging for more.
- DS = dead
- Iron Will = dead
- Circle of Healing = dead
- Dead Hard = dead
- Self healing = heavily nerfed
- Medkits = heavily nerfed
- Basekit killer buffs across the board
- Longer gen times
- Extremely oppressive killers like blight and nurse still not nerfed in spite of their main counterplay like dead hard being nerfed.
I'm not even sure what these people want anymore.
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I don't mind it because I have thousands of hours of experience and know how to counterplay every killer in the game. It's not so fun for the default cosmetic Dwight with 100 hours.
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No juicy medkits
No juicy toolboxes
No sabo builds
One flashlight in two games
One Dead Hard
Only 2/8 using adrenaline
Am I missing something here? No offense but this is an easy win for any experienced player. Maybe you just aren't very good? Crazy to me how so many killer mains refuse to accept that this might be a possibility. My average killer match is significantly more difficult than this and I still have no trouble winning far more games than I lose. Maybe record yourself playing and let someone critique your gameplay.
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I'm not worried. The best thing about the dead hard and healing nerfs is they will make blight even stronger and force behavior to finally do something about him. They won't be able to ignore it anymore once his kill rate reaches 75% at top MMR. Even more games will end up in immediate dcs and hook suicides. The common justification for blight's existence was the existence of OP survivor perks. Dead Hard is gone, DS is gone, Circle of Healing is gone. Why does blight still need to exist at his current power level?
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384824#Comment_3384824
I really doubt they will revert the healing nerf but not ease up on the gen regression nerfs in that case. Unless they want to cause long juicy queue times for survivors, since they are already longer than killer queue times.
They most definitely will not let up on nerfing gen kick regression. You can thank everyone abusing them and forcing 30 minute games constantly.
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It won't go live. They only need two reasons to not put the healing changes live.
- It makes camping significantly stronger as many others have pointed out in much more detail.
- It makes the already OP killers like blight, nurse, etc even more oppressive. You're already in a frantic race against time against unstoppable chase killers. Longer heals, no dead hard, etc is going to make them unbeatable if they are remotely competent.
The fact that this is even being considered is insane.
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I find it amusing that this is coming from a guy with a blight avatar.
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Guarantee the 24 second healing change won't last. The PTB will show how bad it is.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Fun fact: if the killer face camps with sloppy butcher, it takes 60 seconds for the hook stage.
In those same 60 seconds, 2 survivors can heal each other.
Even better (worse), is if someone goes in to use Reassurance and gets hit in the process, it will take 30 seconds to reset to try for the save. The entirety of the Reassurance timer will be spent healing to try and rescue (which takes 2 people).
Face camping with sloppy, deadlock, NOED, no way out is getting a gigabuff with this patch.
Two other 'fun' interactions to consider:
- Sloppy butcher + hex: face the darkness. It is now impossible to heal fully, base kit, without being interrupted by the scream. You have to find the totem. With the medkit change, being interrupted or missing a skill check deletes one heal from the kit entirely (which might be the only heal).
- Pinhead will be miserable with chain hunt. It takes 90 seconds to start the chain hunt. Survivors who heal against a sloppy butcher cenobite will be in an endless loop of heal two survivors in 60s, go for the box to be injured again, repeat.
Edit: autocorrect, added other annoying interactions
This is exactly why it won't make it to live. People will showcase how ridiculous it is on the PTB and they'll be forced to reverse course.
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@Kimdinhold said:
Devs is biased.
4 Meta killer perks get nerfed and 2 meta survivor perks get reworked.
Dead hard and CoH still fine after little change but Eruption , CoB , Overcharge and Pain Resonance get nuked.
Did you really think they weren't going to nerf gen kick after people constantly abused it and made games last for 45 minutes?
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Everyone knows the 24 second healing change is crazy and won't last. Sloppy Butcher will have like a 90% pick rate so every heal will effectively be 30 seconds. Good teams will just bring even more toolboxes and bnps to compensate. They'll sit on gens despite being injured and gen rush even faster now that regression has been heavily nerfed. Solos will panic and have no idea what to do when they are always injured. The version that hits live will not be 24 seconds and I expect it might even get completely removed when they realize how big of a change this is. The medkit nerfs and CoH nerf were enough to fix healing. All the 24 second heal does is make OP killers even more OP and makes solo queue even worse.
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They need to walk back the altruistic healing nerf. That's going to make solo queue even worse. Nerfing medkits and circle of healing was enough to address the biggest complaints that were actually justified. There's also the fact that sitting there healing someone for 24 seconds is.... boring to say the least.
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@Beatricks said:
Okay, now how about someone do this after him WITHOUT the preferential matchmaking?
Don't get me wrong, I'm in absolute awe at the raw skill displayed at clubbing baby seals with barely 4-500 hours that run into walls because they don't look ahead of themselves and don't work on gens because they are too busy being the next JRM/Ayrun/etc and can't even run in a straight line to efficiently chain strong loops and abuse infinites, etc.
Why do I feel like playing Pig on Red Forest against Hens333 and his squad would yield vastly different results?
Nothing personal against Otz by the way, he is a really cool guy and a pillar of the community we should all aspire to be, but this should not be used to gleam some sort of significant insight. The only thing it actually shows is that SBMM doesn't work and the tippity top MMR killers are regularly fed baby survivors who have absolutely zero business in being the same lobby as them.
If you think Wraith is a perfectly viable Killer show me a single tournament where he 4k-ed, I'll be waiting.
"SBMM doesn't work"
Exactly and it never will. Which is why they should never balance around comp BS. The dreaded four man death squad is incredibly rare in public matches. Even Hens himself has said that teams like his are not common and that high level play doesn't happen in public matches. Why even bring up hens as if facing a team like his is a common scenario?
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@Elessar93 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377417#Comment_3377417
So let me understand. He is bad because he wants to play with not meta killers at high MMR. Logic? If I use a bad killer vs a team doing 3 gens while I down a survivor once how is skill involved in this? Some killers don't even have an anti loop power. So NO. Not every killer is viable at high MMR.
Haven't we established at this point that high MMR basically doesn't exist because of low soft caps and expanding matchmaking range? I'll trust the take of the guy with the longest SWF escape streak (hens) over randoms in the forum any day of the week. I can turn on any streamer who mains killer and see that they clearly aren't going up against top of the line competition. When are we going to drop this myth that everyone at high MMR is good? High MMR is full of terrible players. The whole argument that killers aren't viable at high MMR is based on the bs argument that everyone at high MMR is as skilled as a comp player. We've got mfers on 100+ wins streaks as Onryo and Nemesis. If high MMR were as difficult as people on this forum pretend it is then we wouldn't have people like Alf with 600+ win streaks as nurse.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Why does everyone bring up camping? Like, tunnelling, sure, but camping? Camping is the weakest it's ever been.
It's still very strong against solo players since they have no way to communicate what is going on and no ability to coordinate a rescue. I also think you're underestimating how bad the average solo player is. Simple concepts are still difficult for most players and I don't expect that will ever change.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
Stay in game as long as you can. It might help someone reach the safety pip.
Also more BP for you.
I don't care about bloodpoints in this scenario. I want to have a fun match. Game isn't fun when you are handicapped from the start. It's best just to get out of the game as fast as possible since you have no chance at winning.
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Lobby dodging is about wanting easy games. It's not more nuanced than that. People whine about getting bullied while at the same time they will dodge until they get a team full of noobs. The ability to see prestige levels, items, hour count, and cosmetics lets you paint a relatively accurate picture of how sweaty a survivor team is. A team full of 3k+ hour survivors with medkits will probably be a hard game for most killers. It's not a guarantee but it's much more likely to be difficult compared to a game of default cosmetic dwights with low hour counts and no items. At the very least the ability to see prestige levels and hours should be removed. It's not fair for the survivors who end up getting bullied because of lobby shopping.
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The amount of BPs you get for doing gens in particular is ridiculously low. You shouldn't need to bring a perk in order to get a fair amount of BPs for doing the game's literal objective. Grouping up on gens to get more bps also encourages you to play in a suboptimal way. The whole way that objective bps are rewarded just makes zero sense in general. At the very least they should add a form of the system they use during events. The system where the entire team is rewarded BPs whenever a gen is completed. Maybe give survivors 1k BPs every time a gen is finished while also increasing how much you get for repairing solo. A person who gets tunneled for five gens would at least get something in the way of objective score while the gen jockey would also be rewarded for doing the objective.
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in my games anywhere between 3-6 dodges usually. sometimes less if there aren't other high prestige survivors on my team. people can say what they want about whether or not prestige level correlates with skill but killers definitely seem to think it does judging by how much they dodge any lobby with high prestige players.
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@RhodosGuard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371026#Comment_3371026
Which side is currently so ridiculously underplayed, that they have that +100% Bloodpoints bonus almost 24/7?
Maybe it is time Survivors get nerfed?
I am just saying. Considering the fact that they got BT for free and have that really unfun to play against version of DH now, Survivors seem awefully insistent on getting even more basekit perks.
Now you're giving it away. Basekit BT was necessary because there was absolutely nothing to stop killers from hard tunneling people off the hook with no counterplay. This was especially bad for casual solo players who could do absolutely nothing to prevent it. It's the abuse of cheesy tactics with no counterplay that get these kind of perks added as basekit. Also killer had no bonus for many months after the buffs. Killers having more bonuses is a recent thing. It depends on mmr, region, time of day, etc. It's not the same for everyone.
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Other than fixing a few problematic three gens like the one on RPD literally all they have to do is have activation conditions for gen kick perks. The issue is simple and it's the fact that you can kick a gen over and over again. You don't have to chase anyone to earn the insane amount of regression you can get from gen kick perks. Pain Res makes you work for it. Old pop made you work for it. Add a token system or a hook requirement and the problem will go away in most situations. Like you hook someone and you get X amount of tokens. The effect is the same but killers can't hold the game hostage until the server shuts down.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369420#Comment_3369420
I can only imagine the outrage that would happen if they nerf killer gen regresing perks and don't change DH.
You can’t hold a game hostage until the server shuts down with dead hard.
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3000 hour player. I escape roughly 40% of my solo queue games. My kill rate is over 80%. Yes I have actually kept track in specific months. I bring strong builds on both sides but do not get the same results. Escaping in solo is significantly harder than getting a 3K or 4K.
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This is the kind of thing that is going to get the three gen strat destroyed by the nerf bat. Then people are going to have the nerve to whine when it happens.
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I can't tell if these are troll posts or if people are just really bad and have no self awareness. You've got Oni players out there beating comp survivors and you can't win against randoms?
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@Zaydin said:
Three genning is currently the best strategy for the SM due to how weak her chase and anti-loop abilities are so how do you propose buffing her if you nerf her three gen ability?
anything is better than what we have now. the most popular strategy for playing against skull merchant atm is dcing or suiciding on the hook. it's amazing that they even released this killer in the current state.
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People hate three genning for obvious reasons. It leads to these long 30-40 minute games and is unwinnable for a solo team if the killer has the right build. I don't know what people don't understand about this. Camping and tunneling is whatever to me because they can be countered if the survivors are efficient. Bad or average killer tunnels against a team of good survivors and it'll most likely be 3-4 escapes. Same with camping. I am completely fine with them bringing back perks like Pop and Ruin if it means getting rid of the horrible gen kick meta we have right now. I want them to shift to a chase focused game because that's what's most enjoyable for the majority of players. No one wants to sit in a three gen game which is why you see so many people immediately give up against skull merchant.
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Actually you don't have to suck it up. This is a video game. It's not a job. People are under no obligation to put up with things they don't enjoy. If people are constantly DCing to specific things then it's probably a sign that those things are badly designed and need to be changed. That's more likely than everyone just being a crybaby which is what you seem to be implying.
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Gonna keep giving up against her until something changes. People pretending like these long games are rare is the most baffling to me. Nearly every SM I have played against uses the three gen strat. It's just a waste of time to sit in one game for 30-40 minutes. I get absolutely nothing for staying in a game like this. Impressing randoms on the forum by sitting through these horrible games doesn't mean anything to me. I'm not losing any sleep over someone I don't know thinking less of me.
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It goes beyond solo players. Not even a good SWF can counter it if the killer knows what they're doing and has the right build. I've said this 30 times but not even Otz and his SWF of 10k hour players were able to counter a competent lockdown skull merchant. I think it's safe to say something is unfair if a team of 10k hour players are unable to counter it and the game drags out for 40+ minutes. It's a real problem and needs to be addressed quickly. Not three months from now. Find some other way to buff her and nuke her three gen potential. Otherwise you're just going to have people dcing in every single skull merchant game.
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@Doomzilla said:
So what should they do? 3 gen is a legit strategy, why is it anything that works as intended on killer has to go? You know there ARE some people who only prefer to play killer, can we think about them before deciding we should nerf all the perks that got buffed/already nerfed during the “killer sided-patch”?
Because it’s being abused to a ridiculous degree. These thirty minute attrition games are not it. I really don’t understand how people can defend it. It’s not even rare anymore. Games like this are very common now and are frankly a waste of time. I personally have other things to do and don’t have time to sit in multiple 30+ minute matches every day. That’s why you see so many people just give up against killers who hard commit to a three gen.
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It's less stressful because you can just blame your teammates whenever you lose. It's all on you when you play killer since you're the entire team. All of the mistakes are yours and it's your fault when you lose. There are no excuses so you can't preserve your ego as well as you can when you're playing survivor. I have double the win rate on killer as I do on survivor (80% vs 40%) and I still find survivor less stressful. I go into most survivor games expecting to lose because of solo queue so there aren't really any expectations.
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The three gen thing is just too much. No one enjoys playing these thirty minute matches over and over again. I've experienced THREE skull merchants doing this in my current session. I'm just going to take a break for a month or two and hope something is done about these obnoxious lockdown builds where there is negative gameplay for everyone involved. I don't care if you buff her in other ways. Just get rid of this three gen nonsense. I figured Behavior would have learned their lesson with the Knight but apparently not. I don't care if killers are strong in chase at all. I just don't want to sit in the same games for 30 minutes.
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Just had three skull merchants in a row. All of them three gen strat. I just dc'd and gave up in the third one. I feel like that's the only viable strategy. It's just exhausting and not worth the time or effort to play the game out. I don't have time to play 30 minute matches over and over again. You can have your win because i'm just not going to deal with it after I just got done dealing with every single knight player doing the same thing.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364281#Comment_3364281
Apparently it's more killer doing their job meta that sucks. Killers should be walking clowns who only scare people but never harm anyone at all.
Nah people just don't want to play a 45 minute back and forth where the killer does nothing but patrol a three gen from the start of the game. It's negative gameplay and is boring for both sides. It's something they need to nuke out of existence.
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Had a three gen against a Wesker. He had no eruption to carry him and we managed to break it. Life is good. With Eruption he would have had a guaranteed win. So glad this perk and the impossible situations where killers forced three gens from the start are gone. As killer I stayed with pain res/dms and refused to use eruption out of principle. Not something i'll miss as killer.