Gwinty
Gwinty
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Interesting elaboration about that aspect of DbD.
As a survivor I think I can not fully agree with what is written there from my perspective: When I run the Killer and I see 1-2 generators get done I feel like this is my reward. I was the distraction for this and it is partially my responsibility that those people where able to work in peace.
As a Killer I play the "BBQ-game" where I consider a game a "win" if I get my four stacks as this means that I got the better of each survivor at least once. Sure the taunting at the exit gate is a bad thing and I dislike it ("just leave", but for me it is not that bad.
The essay also assumes that I as a Killer need the survivors approval for my "win" which is not something I would agree with. My "celebration" is when I down them and whip my weapon clean or hook them and the entity takes them.
I can agree however that one side winning means that the other side feels bad. However this is nothing unusual in games. In Mortal Combat you get a fatality, in Civ6 you get the opponents victory screen and in Souls Games you get a "You Died" while the other player downpoints you. These instances are always there in PvP games.
However this all is very personal. This game also gets under my skin from time to time and I can not shake it off.
It's sad to hear why you are leaving and of course that you are leaving the game. Especially the part about lack of optimization. We can argue about game aspects and how balance should happen, how Killers should change or maps are bad. But I think we can all agree that the overall gameplay should be smooth and look good. Especially when it is about framerate and things like that...
I hope that the game lives up to its potencial and you maybe think about trying it when good new about optimization or other problems come in.
But after all of that, glad that you are staying on the forum, your posts are always worth reading.
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I only had survivor teammates grieving me once they noticed I ran Exponential. I was doing my Jonah adept and had a Feng that pointed at my Boon, then made the gen explode and sandbagged me when the Killer came...
Had similar experiences in other matches and I am quit confused why people act that way...
However I as a Killer would never complain about Exponential. If I slug this is a risk I have to take. Also that Soul Guard combo is pretty sweet and I like it myself...
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
Since Ghostface will be getting changed soon with Legion here’s what I think of Ghostface. I think he’s almost a perfect killer. I think he’s very fun and interesting he’s quick nimble and sneaky. If I were to make him a perfect balanced killer here’s the 3 changes he needs
- Fix his Reveal mechanic
- Change his cooldown
- rework his addons
The first change is simple, fix his inconsistent reveal mechanic it’s weird and stupid. You can reveal him from across the map or you stare him in the face and nothing happens
Second is cooldown. Even though they kind of made it basekit it’s not enough he needs a better cooldown here’s what I would do. His Base cooldown is 20 seconds. When you get stunned, revealed or miss a attack you lose night shroud and have a 20 second cooldown. If you hit a survivor while in night shroud the cooldown is 15 seconds, if you hit a marked survivor your cooldown is 10 seconds. Simple but makes him rewarding and more skillful. I would then nerf the cooldown addons
Make better addons. Ghostfaces addons are not very good the only good ones are the cooldown addons. Just rework his addons to be better and he will be golden.
What do you think Ghostface needs?
I think Ghostface suffers from two problems right now: Massive Healing and the ease to reveal him on most maps.
Let me elaborate...
At first it would seem that Ghostface should not suffer from healing that much. After all he is a stealth Killer with an insta-down. You can not heal yourself through an insta-down. However the "hit-and-run" playstyle is Ghostface "backup plan" on more open maps. When you play on Auto-Heaven or other areas like this, Ghostface can have trouble getting close. Sure you can stalk but you have problems taking the reward for this, because you can not sneak up on your victim. Hit and Run was a good fallback but that does not work against massive healing. (Ask Wraith about it...)
These open maps also allow for easy reveals unless you crouch across them. In itself your crouch can counter this but the amount of time it takes to get from A - B while crouched is not worth it. As such you just run there and either they know you are coming (bad) or you get revealed (worse).
It gets even worse when people play Spine Chill. Wraith can counter Spine Chill by crabwalking to the survivors without looking at them, Ghostface has to look at them to stalk and get any benefit from his power. A good survivor with Spine Chill that knows she is up against a Ghostface has it very easy. Not to mention 6% extra action speed to add insult to injury.
If the survivors are any good on an Autoheaven map or any other open map, you will be a M1 Killer without any mobility that gets 1-2 downs by surprise at the start of the match. After that you either lack the time for a good stalk (genspeed) or you can not sneak up on them anymore (open fields, survivors are aware) or both.
Now how to fix this...
Well, Ghostface as a "hidden stalker" is a great concept. I love him and I still play him. I am just very aware of his weakness and the feeling that most times it was "just" my M1 skill that got me the down and not my power being that useful.
An add-on pass is mandatory for him. His add-ons are just plain stat buffs that are not even interesting with his power. Even his iridecent add-ons are just "meh" with the Camera at least being a bit interesting. Crouching speed add-ons suck, Mark duration add-ons are just there as fillers, Stalking speed add-ons are not needed (you stalk pretty quickly once you get an angle) and only cooldown add-ons are worth it. Also no meme add-on!
Next his reveal mechanic should be fixed as you said. Strech res should be addressed here as nothing feels as bad as the fact that Ghostface gets revealed over walls or stuff like that...you loose those matches and you notice who is using strech res without any ability to counter it.
The main point he needs: An ability to blend back into the shadows to go back to stalking. And I am not talking about "stalking a survivor that leaves a loop" (works quit okay). You suggested change would address this a bit but I think we need something else...
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2746347#Comment_2746347
- Generator
- In Chase
- Killer nearby/Camping (Contextual based on Hooked or not)
- Going for Unhook
Generator, In Chase, Going for Unhook are all Actions you are performing. "I'm ___"
Killer nearby/Camping are all Things happening to you "They're ___"
If we were to use existing commands:
- Pressing the Point button:
- On a Generator - Generator Icon pops up
- While in Chase - Obsession spindles pop up
- In the direction of a Hooked Survivor - Unhook Icon pops up
- On Hook - I'm safe/Come rescue Icon pops up
- Pressing the Beckon button:
- In the Killers Terror Radius - Greyed out Obsession spindles pop up
- On Hook - Unsafe/They're camping Icon pops up
I can't recall if it's a Tome Challege, but I think there's a Challenge that has you pointing at the Killer while using Alert and their Aura shows up, which is more or less the same tech that you need for the "In the direction of a Hooked Survivor" condition for the Unhook Icon.
Neat! I did not know that such a mechanic was a thing.
With pointing and those rudimentary shout outs much could be done. This sound quit good.
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Okay, the name of the game is as few information as possible to prevent confusion but enough to make it work...
Repairing and being in chase are a no-brainer for me. Being in chase is the most valuable information to indicate that you can be bit more bold and the information can already be transmitted as we see when an obsession gets chased. Repairing is also important so that the person in chase knows that the chase is worth it.
Now "Camping" would be a valid option too, however I would opt for "In Terror Radius" insteads. The game can also already register if a Killer is nearby and the survivor on the hook already knows this. A small icon that you are still in the Killers Terror Radius would be fine for this. Nothing to obvious. This would also help with slugging Killers.
I would start with these 3 and expand from here on.
"Opening the gate" would be pretty sweet, but without a way to tell that a gate is 99%. This has to be assumed by the play themself as this systems is not there to let you in on the finer details.
"Hiding" would also be nice. The ability to see if a survivor is in a locker would be pretty neat. However I do not think anybody aside from me would like this.
"Going for the Rescue" is also an idea, however this could be tricky. How would you implement this?
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Damn, when I read that title I though I was to bring creative things and already had some ideas...
I will just leave them here while the others come up with the best perks to pick next to 4x Dead Hard...
Team Protect the President:
#1 - Object of Obession, Prove Thyself, Deceisive Strike, Overcome + Map
#2 - Blood Pact, Borrow Time, Babysitter, Dead Hard + Flashlight
#3 - Blood Pact, Flashbang, Borrow Time, Head On + Med Kit (Stiptic Agents)
#4 - Blood Pact, Flashbang, Blast Mine, Sprint Burst + Med Kit (Stiptic Agents)
Map offerings for higher or lower difficulty are okay.
The med kits can be used on the survivors themself, but the Agents are only for the President. Use Dead Hard to jump in the way if you can. You can swap one of the Bodyguard Perks for "We are gonna live forever" or "Boon: Exponential". The goal is to protect #1 who gets constant action because of Object of Obsession. You win if #1 escapes through the gate, your death means nothing.
Scavengers:
#1 - Sprint Burst, Plunderer Instinct, Appraisal, Ace in the Hole + No item
#2 - Dead Hard, Flashbang, Borrow Time, Mettle of Man + No item
#3 - Lithe, Diversion, Urban Evasion, Quick & Quiet + No item
#4 - Overcome, Pharmacy, Ace in the Hole, Botany Knowledge + Med Kit
Coin Offerings are a must, map offerings are welcome for anything but Haddonfun, Badham and Yamaoak as they do not fit the theme of looting and adventuring.
Get as many items as possible. #1 has the goal to pick up as many as possible, your goal is to use as many items as possible during the match and escape with at least 1 new item.
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I will never understand why Killers do something like this. I mean, I wait for a lobby, wait through a loading screen just for one perk and then to stare at Steves face? Whats wrong with these people...
Or is this the cosmic backlash from me wanting to show my friends over at discord how good Bubba can be when you play him to chase and hook without ever camping and tunneling? Like the Bubba-energy left me and went into your Killers? o.o
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2746195#Comment_2746195
Well I dont see anything else that wouldnt change the game completely.
Survivors have 3 lives, killers tunnel to make it 1v3 faster and have a better chance to win.
With all things considered, hooking someone 3x in a row is the best, most optimal play that killers can do.
And its not about scummy or unfun or whatever. Its simply the most logical thing to do for you to win in how game works.
I agree here. You had to wast a ton of time of the survivors to make any other play as good as tunneling.
Even when you intercept the survivor that goes for the rescue and you can occupy the time of 3 survivor (hooked, chased, rescuer) pretty good this is still worse when it comes to time efficiency than just tunneling one survivor out and cutting off 1/4 of their time for the rest of the game.
As such when punishing the Killer and taking tunneling away (say we have a magic fairy and can just wish for this) we would have to fix the gape between the ideal scenario of "3 survivor occupied" (hooked, chased, rescuer/healer) to "-1/4 of the time for the rest of the game".
While I think that generators are "too fast" sometimes, just making them slower would make survivors more miserable and thus just giving "penalty x per hook to genspeed" a bad idea.
Please do not get me wrong. My idea is not to make survivors weaker or punish them more. I just dislike the idea of punishing Killers for the same reason. If possible no role should become more miserable just to make the game more "balanced". People will play a fun and unbalanced game but not a balanced unfun game.
I also understand why you think this is pretty much impossible with the current version of the game. A seperate mode would help for sure.
This is why I think "Grim Embrace", "BBQ & Chilly", "Hex: Devour Hope" and even "Dying Light" are good choices per design: They give you a reward for leaving the hook and getting into a chase. However perks are only a supplement and should not replace basic gameplay mechanics.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/304542/how-to-encourage-good-gameplay
Rescently some streamer have shown that Killers can get a lot MMR and "win" a lot by just playing as scummy as you can without perks or add-ons at all.
I however want to rise the question if you can approach this the other way around: How would you reward Killers for playing more "fair" and less "scummy"?
If anything, Otz's experiment shows exactly why you -don't- want to take this approach, from a balancing perspective. If Slugging, Tunnelling and Camping are that powerful as strategies, then trying to bring other strategies into competition with it would just mean skewing the winrate too harshly in the killer's favour.
Not to mention that if you do create some balancing paradigm where a 'clean' killer player can consistently get 2Ks with similar ease, you'd leave the game balance entirely in the killer's hands: You can either get a fair match, or the killer can just choose to employ one of the more powerful strategies and win with the same level of decisiveness that they currently can.
You can't make nice plays more effective than tunnelling, slugging and camping, because those three strategies are already too strong, so raising the floor to that level would just make the game impossible for survivors.
Camping, tunnelling and slugging -must- be addressed if this game wants to get out of this meta.
I wonder why you note slugging here. I agree with excessive slugging but some Killers like Oni, Myers and Plague are bound to slug because they have to make the most out of their power, their window of opportunity. If you punish slugging across the board these Killers will take an undeserved hit.
While I agree with the idea that it would bring unbalance to just reward that strategy more without doing something about the other, you miss the point in the other direction: If you just nerf this strategies without any benefit for the "fair" gameplay you will tilt the game towards survivors. It would result in unbalance as well.
There are already plenty of ideas about punishing Killers for bad gameplay. However you have to do both at the same time: Nerf one thing and buff the other.
@ShinobuSK said:
Make survivors impossible to hook twice in a row.
And make insane balance changes to the game mechanics like smaller maps and much longer gen times.
So I will rather take scummy killers and not changing half of the game. Its not like its unplayable when killer tunnels
I asked for a way to reward. You answere with a way to punish people for tunneling...whelp, okay.
The idea is to brainstorm and come up with good and constructive suggestions.
@SuzuKR said:
Mechanical benefits are required to rebalance this game around lack of those strategies being used as strategies. Disclaimer, I don't have problems with them being used as strategies. But if you did want to rebalance the game around not needing those strategies, here's just some random brainstorming.
For instance, camping is done to maintain pressure around a specific area because it offers better pressure compared to going elsewhere. The risk is that the other survivors are not pressured, so they ignore you and do generators. So an example of a mechanical basekit buff could be something like if the killer leaves a 24m area of the hook, then for the next 30 seconds, generators not actively being repaired will regress at 0.5/s (current Ruin's rate), non-stacking with Ruin. This gives pressure options. You push someone else off a generator and it immediately starts tanking quickly. Or for example, amplifying gen regression to damaged generators within a certain radius of the hook, since another reason to camp is to defend certain specific generators by the hook. So on and so forth. Numbers are all just placeholders, but you get the idea.
Tunneling is done because it provides more pressure to either get someone to death hook early, or to get someone out of the game which provides massive pressure. The risk is that the other survivors are not pressured, so they ignore you and do generators. So for instance, a solution that would work for weaker killers but would likely need a different one for stronger killers, could be a basekit Make Your Choice of sorts with a shorter duration but less or no cooldown. Then the unhooker becomes vulnerable to being instantly downed, which provides a better incentive to chase the unhooker. And since Make Your Choice does require distancing from the hook, it would not work with camping. So on and so forth.
Slugging is done because it is a situation where it is better to take the risk to immediately chase another survivor for more pressure than to pick up and carry them and hook them, which can take a significant amount of time. Examples are people being downed on a pallet or in the open with people with flashlights nearby, multiple survivors in the area that you can hit and/or down quickly, so on and so forth. The risk is that they can pick the person back up and thus deny what would've been a hook state if you were able to pick up and hook them. I consider this the far least complainable comparatively of the three. Outside of slugging people to death, there are basically no issues with this gameplay-wise. Camping and tunneling have gameplay merits to exist as-is, but can often be used to just specifically harass a player for the sake of harassment itself. Furthermore, multiple killers are balanced around slugging as a core, which I do not consider problematic.
But yeah, hope that does give some food for thought, and many of these apply to weaker killers more specifically.
I agree and I think that these points are where the fixes should happen: Camping and tunneling both offer a benefit that can not be underestimated.
With one you shift the survivors priorities away: When they could have worked on multiple generators across the map and you had to search them, you can now force their hand. Even when I play fair I can see this advantage by using BBQ: When I see the survivors and I can see somebody going for the rescue with BBQ I will intercept them. This yields pretty good results even for fair play.
With the other you limit their rescource (time) by 1/4 when you are successful.
I think camping is the bigger issue by the way as with tunneling the survivor can at least move on and has some form of gameplay (the chase) where they can play and make decisions (as long as they are not facing Nurse). Sure it is bad but camping is worse.
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I like Billy. I like playing as him and against him. Just use your chainsaw as much as possible so that the stakes on out chase are high and we are fine. Bring Lightborn all you want, I suck at flashlights anyway.
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@gilgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2746071#Comment_2746071
You kind of hit another point that makes them weak that isn't spine chill, aka the healing meta. The hit and run playstyle was their strongest playstyle before since both Myers and GF have inconsistencies with their respective stalk and stealth mechanics, less so for Myers but he also has bigger problems then spine chill, but for for GF and wraith healing meta has destroyed their map pressure as GF's reveal is buggy at best and wraith has no lethality in his base kit. Perks can somewhat make up for wraiths but it's a riskier game.
And he can not be revealed to stop his stalking. Ghostface suffers because once he get's revealed he just has nothing aside from the M1 Killer skill of the player. Wraith can just bing his bong and go back to stealth but Ghostface, once revealed is useless for 24 seconds (not counting add-ons).
Now what are you supposed to do as Ghostface? Leaving the chase was the option but with that much solo healing in the game this no longer works. Normal healing was no problem because you occupied the time of two survivors but this is no longer the case. Continue the chase? Well, M1 Killer without any special power, this can take a while.
Also after the 24 seconds the question is if you even can activate you Shroud again to a good effect. Making distance to a survivor (Whispers helps) and then trying to stealth again is a bad option because you wast time and can not get back to stalking that quickly.
I enjoyed Ghostface before CoH was interduced and could play around Spine Chill a bit, but it was already bad. However now it just got worse as I have no fallback option, meaning that Spine Chill just gets to wreck me full force.
Myers has another idea: He can at least stalk while just being there and standing still. I run him with Enduring and get my stalk after a pallet (also very useful once you pop T3). Also you still have the Tombstone Piece + stalk-speed add-ons if you really want to ruin somebodies day.
Wraith at least has mobility: When you drop a chase you can quickly get back into the fray by running there. Also his add-ons can give him a bit of an edge, be it quicker pallet breaking, vaulting, running, stealth, non-directional bell...the dude at least has tool. Now compare that to Ghosty...he got...well...his Camera is cool, I guess...
The reason this gets on my nerves is because I really, really like Ghostface. He is still my favourite Killer by far. But he is just a bit miserable right now...
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@Phasmamain said:
Spine chill’s only real use is to counter stealth killers. To nerf that is to make the perk pretty useless
Well, the action speed is always pretty good. Also Spine Chill counter Tinkerer and other perks a Killer can use and allows you to determine if a Killer is approaching you or still only searching. In chase the action speed can give vaults you would have missed and other funky stuff.
@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2746013#Comment_2746013
Of course, I play both a lot so I always kind of roll my eyes when people say, "just crab walk, lul." If only I could stalk while I did it, surely I would! I digress, honestly, if a survivor runs Spine Chill, I ain't even mad. They gave up a genuine meta perk for the ability to know I am staring at them. It is really flattering.
Yeah, just not stalk people. You know, just play a 115% M1 Killer who sometimes has no red stain. Maybe try hit-and-run with Sloppy Butcher and Nurse Calling...
A good survivor with Spine Chill is in Mexico before you even arrive at their generator and will taunt you to run shack with them...at least Ghosty can tbag back at them...
@gilgamer said:
Spine chill isn't the thing that makes stealth killers weak, the bigger problem is that stealth killers have no map pressure, wraith kinda does and that's why he's the best stealth killer. Spine chill does counter stealth killers but overcoming that offers some amount of growth to the killer as well since survivors relying to hard on Spine chill will thrown off guard by killers who work around it.
It is...sorry to say that but: Try to play Ghostface against 4 people with Spinechill and try to get a good stalk off them. Unless you can get a very good angle or stalk through a crack (not very reliable) you will not get anything. And even if most survivors with Spine Chilly will leave the generator once it becomes active for a bit too long.
Without stalking you are a M1 Killer that sometimes has no red-stain. And Hit-and-Run does not work anymore with all the Healing in the game...
All the while you are giving them 6% more repair speed and more Skill checks to add even more 1% boni to the mix.
Ghosty and Myers are already slow in the game. Spine Chill ruins their playstyle and also adds insult to injury by giving survivors even more gen-speed. Thanks...
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Claudette in the corner and using Selfcare. Then running around like a headless chicken, getting clobbered by the Killer once more only to go back to crouch into the corner to selfcare. Happens 90% of the time for me. The other 10% the Claudette is wearing a hat and is a super good survivor.
Huntress will hit you on the hook a few times when you loop her for too long or are successful with a fancy play. Rescue your teammate with a flashbang? Do not worry, Huntress will camp and hit you on the hook for this.
And finally my best take: Frosty Eyes = No one escapes Death. Works 8/10 times for me.
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I do not think that they need to do this. The problem with Dead Hard is not its effect but rather that we are pretty bored and that it has no fitting drawback.
I-Frame / No collision allows for some pretty interesting moments and the small dash is needed to make those happen. Taking it away would just leave the perk in a miserable state.
If you want to change something ask yourself if the Exhaustion value of Dead Hard and Smash Hit as an example should be the same. A good solution without robbing Dead Hard of its character would be to give it a higher Exhaustion value while reducing the Exhaustion value of Smash Hit and other less used perks.
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I think she appeals to a small fraction of players and she is a DLC character. People who play her fall into a similar line as Trapper players and this requires map knowledge, planing and set-up. Most people are into fast chases and M1 Killer gameplay (no offense, I also fall into this) and few like something like Hag.
Then there is the learning curve. Unless you want to camp a hook with your traps you have a pretty hard learning curve: Traps not triggering because you put them in the wrong place, Traps never being useful for the same reason, survivors disarming traps, survivors triggering traps while you carry somebody and many more. This takes time to get used to.
People who like to camp however pick Bubba. He is easier and more effective for that playstyle.
As such you just have very few Hags even if she is a very good Killer.
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I think it is just that prominent because it is free now. Also the effect is pretty good. As such you now have free perk with a descent effect which means that you get to see it more. Just the way it should be.
I use it from time to time and like it. However it is not an auto-include for me.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744272#Comment_2744272
I actually think the game should track your skill at hitting Good and Great skillchecks. The more you hit in succession; the smaller the zones become.
Maybe something like: Every hit Good skillcheck reduces it by 2% and Great reduces the area by 4% each time. So if you're nailing goods, it goes 100% size, then 98%, 96%, 94%, etc.
If you're hitting Greats, the zones shrink to 96%, then 92%, etc.
When you miss a skillcheck, the Good zone grows by 4%, and the Great grows by 2%, back to it's normal maximum size if you miss allot.
It's basically an adaptive difficulty that ensures skillschecks will eventually be missed, unless you're the best of the best. Of course, to GET skillchecks down to, say, 50% (or maybe 35%-ish) minimum would probably mean a match is dragging on too long.
But it does mean Survivors would always have to be on their toes, and also give Killers that little alert when someone eventually misses a small check.
Sound interesting but I would add another idea: The further down you go then faster your repair speed gets. That way good survivors with good skill checks could repair generators faster than people like me and get a reward for the increased difficulty.
Of course genspeed as well as some perks would have to be addressed. However the possibility of missing a skillcheck because they have smaller hitzones each time would give people an idea to run perks like Technician or Corrective Action to not explode the generator.
Maybe you could even add the element that the needle of the skillcheck moves fast if your genspeed increases because you are good or if you are applying a toolbox or Prove thyself. This would allow for more "genspeed" perks because you also increase the risk of blowing your generator up.
Also I find the idea hilarious that Dwight becomes a slave driver with Prove Thyself and the increased pressure makes people fail their checks more often.
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I do not think they are lazy. However I think we are overestimating their capacities.
How many employees does BHVR even have? Wikipedia says more than 850. However BHVR does not only publish DbD but also other games and has many project with other studios that are not under their banner. Also I guess around 100-200 of those employees are administrative staff, some are facility management and some are intern IT.
Lets be generous and say that half of the remaining staff works for DbD. That would be around 350 people. Not all of them are developers in the first place. Some are working on license agreements, customer support and other "behind the screens" stuff, like public relations and internationalization.
If we are lucky there are 200 people working on the game. However they are also divided. You have programmers, designers (for sound and visiual), gameplay testers (hopefully) and other stuff.
They are not that big at all when you think about it. Now working on a game that is crossplatform with multiple platforms makes an even bigger workload for every change that you try to implement.
And yes, they still have to make money. The employees still want to eat and live after all...
So overall no, I do not think they are lazy. I think their game grew faster than expected and now they no longer have the capacity to keep up with demands. Also they can not make hast with many new implementations as that will only produce bad results.
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What license will be joining DbD...well, we still got Slenderman and Candyman up.
Also Bioshock would be a good fit with Big Daddy and Little Sister and could make both games a good load of publicity, bringing people over from one game to the other if done right. Also with the new AI mechanic of Zombies this Killer could work.
Overall I expect Crowns and some more quests, maybe even a tome like for Halloween. The last two events where quit nice in retrospective: Halloween gave us two free skins and a tome to work with and winter event gave us snowmans as a fun mechanic.
I would hope for a recap of their activities thou to check which of their goals they have reached and what is next for the game.
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The thing is that you can not make a mechanic that is to difficult because you have to consider survivors across all skill level. One of the good things about DbD is how easy it is to start playing it and how intuitive certain things are. Doing generators can not be hidden behind a very deep and complex mechanic because that would lesser the acessablity of this game.
Now if you have a suggestion how to change generators while not making it too hard to pick up for new players I'm all Ears.
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Well, you want some...come and get some!
Now to cut this short, I will only comment on "bad placements". Please note that I mostly agree with all other placements here.
- The Blight: I think you downplay his power, but yes. True Blight mains use Shadowborn however and have no need for Ruin/Undying.
- Pyramide Head: Not "budget Nurse". Pyramide Head thrives of the ability to tunnel out a survivor if he must as he can ignore Borrow Time and Deceisive Stike, this is mandatory for his powerlevel.
- The Cenobite: One tier lower please. Yes he is not bad and pretty good, but he is not that strong. Survivors who take care of the box can deal with him pretty well.
- The Oni: One tier up please. Oni is the king of snowballing and can turn around games that are lost in under 45 seconds. He has mobility and lethality as soon as he gets his power rolling. One hit is all he needs to do so and even predropping will only result in you shredding through pallets leaving you open for another M1 and another burst of his power.
- The Cannibal: Do not downplay his camping potentcial. Yes, we all hate it but it is effective...
- The Plague: Up right above the Oni please. Plague counters CoH very well and has a very strong power. Her add-ons give her even more leathality and she can still use Thanatophobia as slowdown. With her new add-ons she can now also infect survivors with items better. Also very snowbally.
- Ghostface: Man I love my Ghostface but...he is not better than Deathslinger right now. Drop him to D tier as he is a M1 killer that sometimes has no red-stain against most teams. A Killer that is countered by a single perk (Spine Chill) can not be that high...
- Demoboy: One up. His map mobility and chase potentcial is the perfect middle-ground. Whenever you make a tierlist you can put Demoboy in the middle.
- Myers: Sadly the same as Ghostface. Spine Chill wrecks him and his power can be outplayed by predropping. However he has the Tombstone Piece which bumbs him up a bit. Only for this add-on.
- Freddy: The unfun Demogorgon. Just like him Freddy is perfectly balanced: Map mobility and anti-looping. However he is boring to play. Still a solid B-tier choice, clearly stronger than Clown.
Now straight from my gut, here is my tier list...with probably a ton of flaws and contradictions to my explanation:
@RainehDaze said:
A is overrating Pinhead, tbh. Everything in his kit is too inconsistent.
If RNG aligns and the Survivors play bad and you hit the shots it can be wonderful. Any one of those fails and it all goes to pot and you're playing an M1 killer with sweet anims. Too many failure points.
This sums it up perfectly. RNG can screw you with Cenobite. However he is not weak, should be about the same powerlevel as Nemesis in my opinion. Both B tier Killers.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743527#Comment_2743527
Exactly, idk why this takes so long for BHVR to implement that tbh or if they even considered it.
Maybe because it has something to do with the idea that pallets and vaults have more interactions that "just a pallet stun" or "just a Dead Hard". I think vaults an dropped pallets are handled the same way and a "hit validation at vault" could be problematic with hitboxes extending through the window and other not having that property.
@Raptorrotas said:
They should probably make these actions do both at the same time.
Survivor on pallet + in range = broken pallet and hit survivor.
I am still waiting for Nemesis or Onis ability to slam a survivor through a pallet like a WWE powerhouse. Destroying the pallet AND insta downing the survivor...
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TBag contest as Ghostface. I always do this when survivors tbag at pallets or the exit gate, same even do it just like that and I will stop the chase just to do this. I also like it when people photobomb me.
As I sometimes play while streaming over discord I let my friends be the roman senators for the last survivors fate, thumbs up for live and thumbs down for death. However Ghostface always lets one person escape: Somebody has to tell the tale after all.
As Cannibal I like to run Insidious, Monsterous Shrine, BBQ and Agitation with a Speed Limiter. Then I just scare the survivor by hooking them in the basement and triggering Insidious once just to then leave them. I also camp generators like this or with Trail of Torment, because nobody expects the gencamping Bubba!
And finally as Pinhead I like to fire the chain at myself. He uses his hands for nothing so why for a facepalm?
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743982#Comment_2743982
Its easy to trade hooks while facecamping if you dont panic, just attack whoever tries to unhook, stay very close and when someone tries to unhook hit em and just chase em, once you down them hook and DMS gets refreshed giving another 45 seconds, you actually want to trade hooks with this build. Worst part of this whole ordeal is both actions lead to ruin, you trade you get blocked, you dont you get 3vs1 against a Killer who got 45 seconds of free stalling, there isnt anything reasonable you can do to counter this and on top of that, its not even hard to do, just stay on the hook and spam a crow to gens you know there is someone because BBQ gave away the auras.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743988#Comment_2743988
The issue is facecamping+free gen stalling while doing it, in any case I can guarantee facecamping will never go away on itself, the thing they said is "we find facecamping too hard to punish by Solos and way too rewarding for Killers, we dont want it to be that rewarding so we want to give Solos tools to punish it effectively" this build does exactly what they said they dont want, facecamping situations that are very hard to punish, actually this build even if the 3 Survivors were to genrush the Killer they wouldnt be able to because she would be blocking the gens with 0 effort.
That being said, if they were to implement a system like the cages with regular hooks I wouldnt be as concerned for new DMS as I am now, I doubt they will so its either PTB DMS nerf or Artist+Freddy nerfs (easier to change the perk so my money is on DMS being changed before release).
Eruption+new DMS could be an interesting synergy because you need to kick gens to pull it off, making it time consuming, you take your time kicking a decent amount of gens and get rewarded with gens being worked blocked 45 seconds, take on account DMS only blocks the gen if they are working on it, lets say you kick all 7 gens and hook 1 Survivor only 3 people can be working on gens tops, you may find yourself hooking someone, all 7 gens exploding and not a single one getting blocked or all 7 exploding and 3 getting blocked, its an interesting synegy but not really broken, you have to work for it, you block 3 gens maximum, Survivors have means to fight this back and nobody gets facecamped, I wouldnt mind using this on certain builds or having to play against this (at least on paper sounds interesting, maybe its not that strong or way too strong, has to be tested first).
I would opt more for a mechanic that allows the survivors to fight facecamping actively while at the same time rewarding a hunting Killer. I saw many suggestions that said "increase the time on the hook" and I must say they got it wrong: This would not solve the problem for the people on the hook. We need a solution that will put people off the hook and able to play again.
The interesting thing is that the cages show that a system to teleport survivors across the map is in the game. Using this could maybe lead to a solution to camping Killers.
I think we agree on the fact that DMS is not itself the problem but the time they implement it is very sub-optimal without taking care of the camping issue first. I still have a grain of salt in which I would like to wait for the live server.
We had quit some instances where people called something OP and then it was fine or they only face it a few times: Think about Cenobite with Hoarder, Hex: Ruin, Franklin's Demise. This combo is pretty much cancer yet we rarely see it because few play Cenobite and even fewer go for this combo (most take Ruin/Undying/Pop anyway.). As such Hoarder and Cenobite never became that problematic or nerf-worthy.
Eruption + DMS was not supposed to be OP but more like a fun way to play this. I like perks where you have to work for them or that lay a trap. This is why I like Dragon's Grip even if it is weak, I like the "Trap" aspect. Eruption + DMS could be very interesting on Trapper and plays into his fantasy which is very important to me.
@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743988#Comment_2743988
Problem is that regression stacking is kinda best way to play with most killers. If you nerf that, you will see even more tunneling / camping, because that would be only thing left.
Hit&run is useless because of CoH now, so there is not much you can do unless you are ready to lose most of your games.
Yes, which is sad.
I want to nerf regression stacking because it is boring to face the same perks over and over again. I would also buff some perks to up their level a bit and make them better but no matter what happens, regress-stacking will always be king on the hill.
Hit and Run was fun on Wraith before CoH or on Ghostface. Won me quit some games when people stayed injured or hat to wast time to heal through Sloppy Butcher with Thana. Miss that combo. Now Wraith and Ghostface became even more lackluster because of CoH with Ghosty getting the shorter end as Wraith still has his mobility...
I wonder if they will address the speed issue at the same time as the camping issue...
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743939#Comment_2743939
I always thought that basekit small pop (like 5%) would help a lot. Killers would be more likely to leave hooked survivor.
Pop would be nerfed to 20%, to make it same.
Killers would leave hooked survivors more and they wouldn't have to stack slowdown perks so much and I don't think it would buff slowdown stacking anyway. You can't use it with ruin active, Pop would stay same. So Oppression and Eruption would get better, which I don't think is bad thing...
Kicking gen without a perk for it is just waste of time atm, because passive regression is so slow and can be stopped in 0,1 sec by survivors.
I agree, kicking a generator is hardly a good idea unless you want to farm some points. 100 BP for a small kick is an investment after all. However gameplaywise this has almost no effect, it takes the Killer 2 seconds of time to kick it while offering no reward unless you run Pop, Oppression, Eruption or something like that.
Honestly, I could live with a small "pop" effect, even if it would be only 3% or something like that. I would even be satisfied if it was just 2 seconds worth or survivor time I could get out of this.
Regression stacking is a whole problem on its own. The need for more times and the efficiency of getting more time made Pop/Ruin/Undying so good that Killers have little incentive to take anything else. This also hinders build diversity and the solution is not to nerf regression (aside maybe from Hex: Ruin), which is just a band-aid, but to fix the timeframe that exists for hunting.
@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743912#Comment_2743912
Corrupt+Dead Lock dont block gens in the same way Artist+new DMS+Pain Resonance.
Corrupt lasts 120 seconds, Dead Lock blocks the most progressed gen for 30 seconds after finishing one, fixing a gen takes 80 seconds, if the Survivors are split you will finish 1 gen at ~90 second mark blocking one with Dead Lock and having only 30 seconds left on Corrupt, so you get 30 second stall on 4 gens tops (one of those about to get finished), if 2 people work on 1 you finish at ~55 mark and block the gen of the other guy which will be at 55% or so, you get 60 seconds of stalling on 3 gens and 30 on 1 (worst case scenario) 3 people work on the same gen Dead Lock barely does anything because it will block a barely progressed gen (or maybe no gen at all if there isnt a higher progressed gen), they can go fix one of the other 2 or 3. And thats it, no more stalling from that combo now if you want to facecamp you risk getting rushed, you got around 30 seconds of stalling.
Now the problem at hand blocks gens for 45 seconds while facecamping and every time you hook someone, you trade hooks? DMS gets renewed and gens get blocked 45 seconds again, the facecamped dies? 3vs1. There is no winning situation, either you trade hooks and reactivate DMS or you dont and face a 3vs1 after a whooping 45 second stall on every gen you touched. Even the whole "taking turns cleansing birds" thing is pointless, you need 2 people to fix a generator while taking it almost as much as only 1, effectively getting rid of 1 Survivor worth of work.
Also we are not even taking on account Pain Resonance instablocking a gen with its explosion even if 2 people are working on it.
So...face-camping is the issue, right?
Because this whole scenario is based on face-camping. If face-camping, a thing we all hate, disappears this is fixed.
Also when I read your last line...Erruption + Deadman must be fun as hell to play...
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743927#Comment_2743927
They said on last Q&A they are working on a way to fix face-camping, but in a way that is not going to destroy proxycamping, which I have no idea how they want to do it.
I wonder if they will buff something else for killers in return, or just nerf them and see what's going to happen (more likely to happen).
It probably takes some time to come up with something like this. I can see that proxy camping should not be nerfed too hard because there are situations where you can not avoid it: Say a survivors loops around his teammate or you hang a survivor next to the exit gate that is open or in the middle of your 3gen.
I think they will drop this mechanic as a surprise just like the new wiggle mechanic.
And I agree again: If they nerf face-camping they should buff the rewards for hunting and harassing multiple survivors.
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My problem with Dead Hard is not even its effect. Sure it is annoying and most times I do not see a ballsy Dead Hard but a "Dead Hard for distance" or a "I messed up, anyway here is E"-Dead Hard. This makes it very annoying.
I do not mind a good, calculated Dead Hard. Hell, I still have mad respect for that one survivor that Dead Harded through me while I was picking up to get the flashy save. That was a cool play and costed me my only kill that match.
My problem with Dead Hard is that it is everywhere.
But I can offer a solution for that: Make different Exhaustion values. Make different values for different perks to balance them. You do not have to touche Dead Hard more than bumping up its Exhaustion value to 60 seconds. But you could buff Lithe to a 30 seconds and Smash Hit to 20 seconds thus making the perks better. This would also open up the field for future Exhaustion perks...
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741510#Comment_2741510
So issue is face-camping instead?
If Artist is going to chase other survivors DMS doesn't do that much. Hey it's blocked, but that also means it's blocked for a killer = your progress is safe. So Pop is completelly useless, Ruin is also way worse, so that's already two meta perks you don't have to deal with. So this way DMS is going to bring new builds, I think that is good thing.
I think you are quit right. The issue is face-camping and not the Artist or this perk. Instead of nerfing a perk that is not even off the PTB now it would be better to just wait for a solution to face-camping which is much more needed.
@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742070#Comment_2742070
People were also assured that Pentimento would be OP, too. And I have legit never seen it used. And on the other side, we had people who were sure the Lucky Break buff was going to break the game, so much that it got nerfed before the buff made it to live fully.
The only time I saw Pentimento receive good value was when I played with a teammate who had the "Cleanse Totems" quest. That Yui broke 4 totems and the adept Artist was having a field day with us after that because once the Yui was on hook nobody knew where those totems where anymore...
The only time I got some Pentimento value was with Hex: Plaything. However the problem was that survivors would just remember where their plaything totem was and just cleanse it again.
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I think the best answere has already been given: Because they ruin the fun for survivors. Overall it is not a good design to block somebodies actions. Think about "silenced" status in League of Legends: Nobody liked it when it was spammed or lasted to long. While such effects are fine if they are very limited, say by a ultimate ability that can be fired once per game they become a problem pretty quickly.
Most exhaustion add-ons have to inflict that effect for at least something over ten seconds which can feel huge. Also because it is done in chase this can feel quit oppressive and unfun. Mind Breaker is different because survivors know about this and can play around it, yes it limits them in some way, but they have control over it.
As such to "rework" Exhaustion add-ons their effect would have to be greatly reduced to about 2-3 seconds (for M1 style Killers). This however could make them quit bad.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743068#Comment_2743068
Move on?
Never, my friend.
I will either convince the devs to bring him back, or die trying.
I would advice for the good old tactic established ~200 b.c.: Just repeat it until they make it. If it can destroy carthage, it can bring back old Freddy!
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I do not know why you were put so highly but then again, there is only one thing you can do about MMR: Grind it down. Sorry to say this but if your Killer rating is too high this is the only chance to get back to fun matches where your playstyle works.
I did so, it was not fun, but after that my matches became quit good, I was able to use fun perks and was still not meeting potatoes only.
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The censor is almost as good as the name censor for Dark Souls III where you could not name yourself "Knight". This is not a BHVR thing, this is an overall "I try to censor my chat"-thing that gets messed up so quickly.
However the taboo-game in the endgame chat can be quit entertaining after a while. I just wished for a few hints...once had some SWF telling me to commit suicide or doing nasty things with my mother. Do not worry, nothing got censored here...
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
The game will die without licensed Killers, but this game needs a health chapter, like right now
Problem is that if BHVR announced that they take a break from new content to make a "health chapter" people will cry out that the game is dying and getting stale the second the announcement is out. They are under quit some pressure to change a few things every month or so...
Now onto the topic: No, I do not think so.
League of Legends has a bloated rooster through the roof and it works. And the fundamentals of that game are not that hard or complex.
Also you got to see what happens when they create a new mechanic or concept: People are not able to handle it. Take Cenobite as an example: People to this day have a problem of getting the box and not panic vaulting back over a pallet. And when they released the Artist people where crying about her as well even thou her power is quit unique.
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I still wonder how I am to submit a recorded video of a hacker. I normally do not record my games because my PC can not handle it also I have no need to share my games with anybody. So I have no ability to submit a full report on a hacker....
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No, I do not experience such pain ... anymore.
I was like you and had many bad matches but after some time I stopped caring about my escapes and kills and just let it go. It took a while to derank and now I am in the soup of wonky build where my wonky build can be played and I have fun.
Sure sometimes I encounter SWFs or a sweaty Blight. But this happens far less now...
The thing is: You have to kick your MMR in the bucket to have fun and use fun builds. You can not sweat and expect casual opponents, if you want to play at the top...well, you gotta face a harder competition.
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On one side I think that you are right. People no using Kindred or other "see your friend" perks is a huge mistake on the survivors side. If you do not have enough information, maybe drop your Iron Will and slap on some Bond/Better Together/Kindred/Deja Vue on your build. Saying that you need certain perks while complaining about a lack of information is just...
However I think that soloQ survivors should receive a buff. After that we can buff Killers to keep up with the new income of information.
Not to say that some survivors are not insanely stupid: I use Kindred when I duo que and it is a regular occasion that 2 people come to rescue me or all 3 people are just slamming their generator and let me die.
Some people are just not able to coordinate and no amount of information will fix this.
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@CheerfulSpirit said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742240#Comment_2742240
Just to clarify, the House of Pain in Springwood is the house with the basement?
But thanks for the tips everyone. Yeah I'd rather do Haddonfield than Springwood 😆
Yes. The house with the basement. This house also spawns on Haddonfun and it's setup is randomized. It can spawn a set-up where you can loop a M1 Killer for a whole game when you know what you are doing but even the worst set-up of this house can be pretty annoying to deal with.
Overall: If the window straight above the stairs where the car stands is not blocked and there is another window creating a "long wall" this structure is almost unplayable for a M1 Killer. If you have bad luck you can even get screwed by hook spawns here too. Which is why it is called the "House of Pain".
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@GamerEzra said:
Community: Please do something about the insane amount of cheaters.
Devs: Removes Bubba masks.
Community: Please buff some bad addons for different killers.
Devs: Nerfs Nemesis's only good addon (Marvins Blood).
Community: Please remove / improve the SBMM system because it's a terrible system.
Devs: Add a stupid and unnecessary new wiggle system.
Why don't they ever listen to the people that spend a lot of money on the game?
The only thing i enjoy about this update are the new voice lines for The Cenobite and some perk improvements.😪
I think you are messing up cause and effect here in a massive way to make a populist point while also dismissing the positive changes to systems and where they led.
First of all the demand to do something about cheaters is valid, no question. However you can not say what you are doing about them in public because that would make the arms race against them harder. The fight against cheating is done in the shadows and not up front.
Bubbas masks where removed for a very different reason. There was debate about that, which I will not repeat. Was it a good thing or a bad thing to remove them, well that is up for further debate but there was demand to remove them from parts of the community.
The question to buff certain add-ons for Killers was answered. Hillbilly had his engravings buffed, got Pighouse Gloves and some other neat part. Michael Myers got his Memorial Flowers and Pig got a whole add-on pass with some very good new add-ons. Also please do not forget the Trapper rework.
Nemesis nerf is bad. I do not understand it and will not defend it. But it is no response to the community.
SBMM was a response to the community who hated the Rank system. BHVR did something out it and gave you SBMM only to have people hate that too. Maybe you should consider that people are never going to be happy with any system here give them Ranks and they cry about bad teammates and baby Killers; give them SBMM and they cry about only 4 survivor perks and only 2 tryhard Killers...well maybe you get matched against tryhards when you tryhard yourself...just a guess...
The wiggle system is an upgrade in my opinion. I hate button mashing and this makes it so much better. Also you are ignoring the quality of life changes to holding buttons...
Overall, please question the relation of cause and effect a bit more...otherwise you draw foolish conclusions.
@mynameisBlade said:
People screaming for Pinhead's voice to come back were definitely listened to. I think some people just are not patient, which is required to understand the process as a whole.
People underestimate the amount of time certain changes take.
Take me for an example: I will demand that different Exhaustion perks have different values until I quit the game or die. Same for different areas of effect for Boon totems.
However if the code is done that everything with the tag "Exhaustion" has a set value of 60/50/40 then the devs would have to remove that tag from every perk, make a new variable for every perk level (not to say perk levels are good), give that variable a new value and hope everything around that still works and they did not suddenly make the survivor crash when they press E to outplay. And then they have to do that about 3-4 more times for every platform and hope for the best again...this will take time.
This issue will not stop my demand. However this change seems "small" to me, yet it takes quit some work to implement...
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@StarLost said:
So I've been thinking about this recently. I've been trying to play more survivor, primarily to improve my killer game (I'm at that awkward intermediate position where it feels like I'm plateauing a bit) and...man, it really does get tedious (and at times quite...gross) rather fast.
The major issues are:
- Far too many survivor perks are really, really dull. It's not that they are weak - far from it. It's that most of them amount to 'you do x faster', 'you have wallhacks', 'you have a second life' etc. Very passive and don't really involve all that much decision making, risk/reward or interactivity. There are a few exceptions, but that feels like the trend.
- Certain perks that are just so powerful that it feels like not using them is playing the game wrong. CoH, Dead Hard and Iron Will are the first ones that come to mind. I've been complained at in postgame for not running these, and it feels like it artificially restricts build variety.
- Other survivors are just...nasty. Not so much to each other (although there is a fair amount of sandbagging and general mean-spiritedness in postgame) but the behavior towards the killer...it makes me feel icky by proxy, to the extent where I often give a pity kill. Honestly, this is going to be something that is going to come back and bite the developers eventually - their stance of 'being a jerk in any way short of slurs or actual threats is not only acceptable, but an important part of online gaming' is a decade out of date.
- Killer variety, even at my likely intermediate MMR (I escape more than I don't, but not by that much) is appalling. If it's not Blight, it's Huntress. Sometimes Nurse, Bubba or Nemesis. I don't mind playing against most of these, but it gets old after a while. I miss seeing Wraiths, Ghostfaces, Slingers, Cenobites, Myers etc. Even the run of Artists seems to have completely dried up.
- There are a handful of maps that feel fair and balanced (Yamaoka and Midwich are my favorites on both sides) but a lot feel like they either play themselves or are just nightmarishly RNG.
- DCs...it really shouldn't be the case where at least 2 in every 5 games have someone DCing. It's even more annoying as survivor, as it means that were probably going to lose by dint of someone having a sulk.
- A handful of addons are just unfun to play against. Tombstone, Video and Ring are the ones that immediately come to mind. I'd love to see these nerfed, and Myers/Pig at least buffed elsewhere to compensate.
- Sometimes I can go an entire game and barely see the killer, then win. I'm not sure if there is anything that can be done there, but it's pretty meh.
Overall, killer is frustrating, but the survivor role also has it's problems.
Sure, survivor is frustrating as well. The "fun" part is that I as a Killer find survivor frustrating too: I dislike seeing the same perks over and over again. This is no fun for me even if it is just about the Exhaustion perk. I only see Dead Hard and Sprint Burst and this is boring: You do not have Sprint Burst? Then it must be Dead Hard.
There is nothing exciting here as a Killer. I like seeing good Lithe Play or good Balance Landing plays. This is fun, I see that the survivor planed to go that way and I lost because I played to their game. Next time I can try to play around this.
Same for the other Perks: Borrow Time, Iron Will, DS, UnbreakaBill...same idea every game with Borrow Time being the only one I like because it is quit mandatory to escape camping Killers.
It comes to the point where I really like it to see Shadow Step, am surpriced about Calm Spirit and enjoy getting outplayed by Repressed Alliance.
There are quit some good perks out there and they are not so dull. The problem is that most of them are so situational that people do not dare to run them and this sucks. I am not even asking for nerfes to solve this and this is why the new PTB changes are quit needed. This is the right direction even if some Killers are crying.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742254#Comment_2742254
DMS, new or old, has awful synergy with Ruin and Pop, blocked gens dont regress by Ruin and you cant kick them until DMS is over which last 45 seconds, same as Pop.
I hope so. This is why I look forwards to DMS being in the mix: It mixes poorly with the existing regression and does not take away the progress. This is pretty good in my opinion. Killers will have to decide if they want to run Ruin or DMS.
However a few month back people talk about how Ruin and Pop are not going well together and that changes. I hope that this does not repeat itself with DMS.
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I would reduce the radius. 24 meters is huge and should be tones down slowly until the performance feels fitting. There is no reason for all Boon perks to have the same shared radius for me: Start by giving Cycle of Healing 16 meters and buff Exponantial to 32 meters.
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First and foremost not all survivors are the same. I play survivor, I like to face the Artist and I like that Deadmans Switch gets a descent buff. I am a bit worried but I will wait for the live servers and just hope that Artist gets played a bit more.
I hate camping and proxy camping Killers. This does not single out the Artist. Thus I view the problem of "camping Artist" just as another "camping Killer". Deadmans Switch adds no new pages to this book for me. Camping is bad and there should be something to encourage (not: punish) Killers for leaving a hooked person. BBQ & Chilly as well as Hex: Devour Hope are perks I very much like for this reason.
And now to the fun part: I also play Killer. I just do not play Artist, her style if not for me. I am interested in the new Deadmans Switch on certain Killers and in certain combinations (Deadmans + Thrilling + Deadlock = Do not touch this!). It sounds like fun.
However I hope that Killers are going for the interesting route here and do not just slap Deadmans ontop of the boring meta-build with Pop/Ruin/Undying. I want to see more perks...
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@StarLost said:
I used to think this, but Nemmy is actually pretty decent. You just have to get really good with his whip.
I don't play him much anymore, the three reasons being:
- Awful, awful addons. Boring, weak, terrible iris.
- Zombies are janky and too easy to counter with a single flashlight.
- Some maps are inconsistent with whether you can whip through or over things.
This post nails it.
Nemesis himself is not weak and an interesting Killer. His power allows interaction and can be fun to play against while also allowing Nemesis to shred pallets and zone survivors. His "power and walk" where he drags his hitbox around is also good and being able to hit survivors over certain structures is fine as well.
I would like to see this feature better supported thou: Make car hitboxes only the hight of the car and make Nemesis able to hit through breaches and cracks. Also make his hitbox linger a bit longer so that you can drag it around more, thus altering his power more from Pyramide Head.
His Zombies as well as his add-ons need some updates however.
Zombies are good and fit well into the game. However they get stuck to often and should have a failsafe against this.
His add-ons are boring and do not offer much benefits. While I like his Zombie add-ons they should get a few tweaks to make Zombies better. Also he lacks add-ons to his tentacle which is a shame as both powers should get support from add-ons.
I imagine Nemesis would benefit very much from some add-ons that would slowdown infected survivors, attract Zombies or make Zombies respawn better. Also his tentacle could use add-ons that inflict some meaningful stati: Broken, Deep Wound, Exhausted and Mangled would be fitting for the big boy.
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@Travis_Bateman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741318#Comment_2741318
Yes,in a good blight yes,if you are good you should be rewarded for it i think
Wait what? Killers should get rewarded for playing good?
That's not in the survivor rulebook at all! Killers are just glorified NPCs!
Now to the topic: I imagine because not many Blight players are using the add-on that much and Blight does not have a problematic win rate. Also I think that BHVR did not aim to shake the meta with a mid-patch and will rather wait for those things for the next full patch.
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Do not chase survivors in certain areas where you could lose too much time. The "House of Pain" and the main building can be quit time consuming. Also the two story house with the window can be a pretty bad spot against good survivors.
Do not break the breakable walls in the main building. Only break wall on the two story house and at the house of pain when needed. Always think about how a survivor will leave a loop: You do not want them to run at any of those structures.
On this map it is very important to know when to drop a chase. Look how the survivor plays and if they know how to abuse the structure, leave them and apply pressure elsewhere. Generators on the street are your friend, protect them more than other generators.
And finally: Always look where your hooks are before you pick-up. Fences and other stuff can mess you up otherwise...
This map is worse than Haddonfield for some people and some Killers...
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There are many good Killer in the game: Plague, Oni, Hillbilly, Artist, Cenobite, Blight and Demogorgon come to mind.
Now I personally like Oni and Hillbilly the most.
I will go with Oni however because his playstyle changes by 180° once he turns on his power. That power is insanely strong when somebody knows what they are doing and it is very exciting to use. Against Oni you get to play against a M1 Killer but you also get to play against a very lethal monster. Not to mention his power has map presence and utility. His chase music rocks and he just emits this "Killer" vibe that some other "Killers" (Legion) are missing. Perfect Killer in my opinion, please do not change him.
I also like the Artists very much. Her counterplay is interesting, she has information, she has map presence and she is a strong Killer. The devs took a good balance with power and map control/information with her, which is nice to see after a Killer like Trickster. Also once again her look is pretty fitting for a horror game, her theme is good and overall I like playing against her.
Cenobite is a personal favorite: Yes, he is not that strong. But his style, his animations and his overall presence in the game are perfectly executed. He feels like I imagined Pinhead to feel. His power is a bit on the weaker side sadly but it is interesting: The chains have nice tricks and interesting counterplay and the chainhunt is a good slowdown, offering me as a survivor a good secondary objective. Could have a bit stronger power but the design is top notch for me.
(All informations here are only valid if the Killer does not tunnel or camp. Both ruin the fun for the survivors.)
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Ghostface can now be revealed from across the map to make the reveal and stalking progress more fair.
Legion now gets her own stun on top of the pallet stun if hit by a pallet while in Feral Frenzy. Also if you miss a Feral Frenzy you will get +2 seconds of stun time, after all it was made more rewarding to hit so it should be more rewarding to make a Legion miss.
Now to be fair: No, I do not think that they will nerf them.
It would not be right to expect something like this because if they rework them there should be changes to their add-ons as well. Imagine you give Ghostface his Security Camera add-on base then you would have to change that.
The reason for the changes to Ghostface cooldown add-ons was to make him feel better and buff him slightly. Buffing a character more when you plan a full rework can backfire.
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@zarr :
Thank you very much, this clears things up.
So the overall course should be to make DbD play completly on a server based system where the server has the final authority over who hits and who misses. This seems like a fair course for me and as for as I remember my limited experience with Overwatch this was not a bad thing and rarely felt bad.
Are there downsides to this system thou?
I imagine that DbD did not choose a "bad system" because they want to. You want your game to be good after all and a fun experience for all players.
From what you wrote it sounds like this will put a huge load on the server capacity which would make an upgrade quit cost intensive for BHVR.
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@ElizaSteph said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737036#Comment_2737036
tbaging, flashlight clicking (on macro!) or bodyblocking, healing in groups, don’t stop killers from playing. They’re rude and toxic too, but they do not halt the game or prevent the killer from trying. I said toxic game play because face camping and only going after one person is generally toxic. In situations where there’s no more gens and no hooks and stuff like that it’s definitely fair, but face camping at 5 gens or hard tunnelling someone out the game as early as possible is toxic. Sorry I wasn’t clear. I don’t think many high level survivors see a killer camp/tunnelling when the game is almost over as they toxic. Yes a killers objective is to kill, but at the same time aren’t they supposed to try and kill as many people as possible? They’re also supposed to prevent gens from being finished, deal as much damage as possible, etc. If they can’t and camping/tunnelling is the only way to secure one, how is that more fun than going after others and chasing them?
As for the person who is being tunnelled, if they’re not great that’s what, maybe 20 seconds or a game play? What about everyone else? Survivors cannot stop killers from chasing them. It’s simple like that. They can be better than them and not let them win, but they literally cannot prevent a chase. Whether or not it’s fun for the killer is if they care more about winning than just trying. You’re saying camping is supposed to provoke others to come, but that’s being stupid in a survivor’s part. It’s still not fun to just trade, or end up with two people down. What if there’s noed, an insta down killer, one of several insta down perks, etc. You’re saying that camping encourages saves but even if it does then what? That person who trades doesn’t get a chase, they just get to sit on hook for the next guy and then they get camped.
Your power scenario to counter my point was kind of a stretch, but even if you’re playing against a good team who happens to be able to prevent you from using your power (even though many killers don’t have to deal with that like ghost face) you still get to go after them. You don’t have to sit and hold a button and leave or sit on a hook. You.still.get.to.chase.
i am not saying none of this gameplay is ever fair, and it’s not even toxic sometimes, but at the end of the day the killer can remove a big aspect of the game that survivors cannot. Not being able to have fun as a killer because you’re having losing is a lot different than not having fun as a survivor because you literally don’t get to play most of the game.
Wow, you are taking this quit a bit personal, aren't you. Chill out, I never said that I like camping or tunneling, I was just pointing out your subjective values of "toxic"....but if you want to play...
I said: It is subjective. My. Fun. Is. Subjective.
You missed this on purpose I guess to "make your point". But you were asking about fun, my fun. I answered you. And I do not even have high standards aside from 4 stacks of BBQ and a good moment in the game.
As Ghostface my fun is to stalk. Not to chase, not to run around the same car 3 times just to eat a pallet to the face but to stalk. To get close without getting noticed, to stalk a survivor and down them. Trying to outplay their way of thinking from where I am coming and stalking. I play Hide and Seek. Which is also part of this game mind you.
In my scenario they are ruining my fun.
By the way as a survivor I dislike getting chased a lot. I am bad at it and I can do more by playing stealthy. I like doing my generators and hide in an effective way when the Killer comes. Hide and Seek is more fun for me than chasing around. Not to say I can not do it, I just do not like it that much.
You are writing that something is "generally toxic". Well, I guess you know the greater consense of the universe about toxicity and I don't? Why do you think so? Sorry to inform you but "generally toxic" is one again arbitrary. You make that up. You have people who agree with you and well, you have people who disagree. Because "toxic" is just another personal opinion.
Some people think NoeD is toxic, some people think flashlight clicking and tbagging is toxic. And some people think running a full meta-loadout is toxic.
As said...you asked for opinions. Do not tread them as facts.
@ElizaSteph said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737093#Comment_2737093
I’m not even saying the person being tunnelled isn’t having fun, because they might be. But what about everyone else who doesn’t get to play bc the killer only is targeting that individual 🤷♂️? you think holding one button to do gens and leave is fun for three people?
It can be boring for everyone. Someone being hit immediately off hook isn’t going to have fun, and neither are three people sitting around while one person gets max escape points.
Oh and by the way...
Do not tread the Killer as an NPC. They are not a monster, a zombie or a mob in a dungeon even if they look like them. They are a fraction of this game trying to win and they are not playing for your "fun".
Sure the game invites you to look at it like that. But actually this plays more like League of Legends. Would you blame your opponents there for using the most efficient strategy to win?
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Just a quick and very uneducated question: How do other games handle this issue? Like ego shooters with PvP where it also depends on milliseconds?
I only played DbD, a bit of Overwatch and finally a lot of Dark Souls II/III. In Souls lag was serious issue and hits could come out pretty wonky. Players reacted by using weapons with bigger hitboxes when facing lagging opponents...