Gwinty
Gwinty
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Grim Embrace + DMS is problematic and they know it.
However only Grim Embrace is fine. We need perks that encourage hooking more than one survivor and there has to be a payoff for the Killer. Blocking the generators for 12 seconds is not that bad because you still can do a lot of other stuff and you get a warning before to avoid DMS (this is only a band-aid thou, gen-locking events should not stack).
Now why do people compare it to old Eruption?
Old Eruption hit a generator for 6% and then applied a 25 seconds Incapacitated to the survivor. Also it triggered by downing a survivor, to which you had no warning. Overall only 2 events where you get hit by Eruption are already much more miserable than all 4 events of Grim Embrace triggering.
Old Eruption was much more annoying and could also combo off Call of Brine, Overcharge for the ultimate 3gen kicking build. And you ran it on Nurse or Skull Merchant for the ultimate unfun. People seem to forget the misery from back then pretty quickly...
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They announced that they will change Onryo once more only 2 hours after the Developer Update.
PTB feedback is clearly taken into consideration. Also their watch list showed that they are aware of the shortcomings of the PTB and that they will monitor these possible issues (DMS + Grim Embrace is also on the list).
As such I think PTB is still valuable and the Devs read the feedback.
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Okay, I get the criticism but I do not think that Grim Embrace will be as bad as bad as old Eruption. Eruption left you in a state where you could no do anything: No healing, no totems, no chests, no nothing. And it did that for a whole 25 seconds.
Now Grim Embrace only blocks the gen up to 4 times per trial for 12 seconds. You would need to hook 4 different survivors to end up somewhere near the value of 2 old eruptions (not even counting that old Eruption also did damage to the generator and 25 seconds of free regression to follow).
I am quit happy with the new Grim Embrace, however it should not combo off with DMS or allow the Killer to spot where the anti-facecamp is kicking in. This needs a tweak.
But overall I did not get the feeling of misery that some of you are talking about. If anything I like another perk that rewards the Killer for hooking different survivors.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496216#Comment_3496216
It's because someone said on twitter that Skull Merchant is like playing chess. Both nicknames come from people who dislike the character, neither of them are flattering.
Chess Merchant would be flatting if she at least had the same level of depth as the game.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496130#Comment_3496130
Like I don't want to butcher her. I still want for Onryo to get her passive slowdown and even mori if people ignore it. That is healthy and all good.
But not being able to cleanse when doing just it for 5 stacks? Not healthy. Not good.
Today I had another idea: Make it so that when your teammates insert a tape the entire team gets condemn stacks removed. However to a lesser degree than the person inserting the tape (tweaking numbers). However once you are fully condemned only you yourself can remove the status. That way you can save the person who is chased or perma stalked by the Onryo while still keeping condemn as a dangerous mechanic you have to work around.
What do you think?
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495204#Comment_3495204
2 man SWF pretty much is solo queue. And only 10% play in 3 man SWFs.
No. There is a huge difference between playing solo and as a duo.
The simple fact that I and my mate can call out the Myers or coordinate a rescue, a bodyblock or another trick makes it much better. I play mostly duo and we are able to get a very good survival rate for our level just by making a few call outs and looking at the new hud to interact with our team.
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While I can agree on Sadako and Skull Merchant (please do not call her Chess Merchant...chess can be exciting and has quick formats like Blitz and Bullet... Skull Merchant only has one mode: boredom), I disagree on Larry.
You can play a match against it without once using an EMP if the survivors are good and spot the biopods. EMPs just make it a lot simpler.
I would also like to differ here because Sigularity has interactive gameplay with the hiding from the pods, keeping an eye out if the Killer is using them or dodging their line of sight. There is far more here and it is a lot more intuitive than Skull Merchant. Also the counterplay is a lot more rewarding: EMPing an area is a huge blow to the Singularity and rewards the survivors by basically turning it into an M1 Killer. Skull Merchant barely feels rewarding when you hack her drones...
I would also say that there is nothing wrong with forcing survivors to interact with Killer powers. Pig is not a bad Killer and I personally like facing a Cenobite.
The issue is if the counterplay does not feel rewarding, challenging or is just boring.
Sadako with her current state is just no good. She needs a few tweaks that make her more interesting. Yes, carrying a tape should have a good risk/reward ratio and no, you should not be able to play only for condemn. Condemn should be a secondary things that slows the game down and not a win condition.
In my opinion a good "mini-game" is to carry the tape across the map and avoid the Onryo via using her lullaby. This is sensible. However as you wast a lot of time this should also give a good reward to her.
I like both designs and I have no problem if survivors are able to counter my power (yes, I play Oni how could you tell). However it should a in a good risk/reward ratio.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495186#Comment_3495186
You can always insert it wherever you want. The problem is, that you won't be able to pick-up tape no matter what. If they created 2 extra TV's that can always provide tape - and say they always insert them to absolute edge of the map (always on the opposite side from one to the other) - then this would be just solved. It's even possible, that 1 TV would be enough (also for obvious reasons these TV's should be in quite some distance from other TV's)
The thing is I am fully on your side on this, no matter which direction we are talking.
There should always be an option to get rid of your condemn, no matter how many TVs get turned off. Same as with Plague where you can always cleanse the corruption no matter if she drinks it or not.
You know from the other thread that I enjoy the new Sadako, but I want survivors to interact with my power. Still she needs to be a good Killer. However not being able to interact with the power and just getting moried is no fun. Condemn should be an additional minigame ala "get across the map without the scary ghost spotting you" and not "sorry, you tried, here is your mori".
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@Blueberry said:
The condemn pressure is literally all she has. If people want to start nerfing that she’s gonna need massive buffs in other areas. She’s literally trash in every category that makes a good killer good. Most my experience playing as and against her have been people not playing against her correctly and trying to play like it was old Sadako which does not work.
She is still a M1 killer with a funny ability that sometimes may or may not confuse a survivor into getting a hit.
The only issue I understand about the condemn mechanic is this:
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495094#Comment_3495094
Sure. That would be OK. But it's not OK that I just can't find working TV in minutes when actively trying.
Survivors should have a way to cleanse themself of the condemn to not get moried. However Sadako teleporting as well as greedy teammates can block this and you are doomed. That is not a good feeling and I get it.
As such the solution would maybe be something like: Once you get the tape there is one TV where you can always insert it not matter its state. Other TVs are an option but if they are turned off you will not be able to insert the tape but that one TV is for you.
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People seem to ignore that she is still a M1 killer with nearly no chase power.
Even if you are fully condemned she still needs a full chase to get you and everybody who played Trapper can tell you how hard it can be to get a single down on a descent survivor when you have no tricks during a chase.
The people complaining about her slugging and not hooking are ignoring that this playstyle can be done with a bunch of Killers. Nurse/Blight with Infectious Fright are still a thing and can wreck you in the same fashion. Also camping a slugged survivor is very much possible on nearly every Killer unless a survivor brings "We are gonna live forever" or "Buckle Up".
I would still suggest a few adjustments to make a Condemn-only playstyle with slugging not that viable if that settles it for some people. The two add-ons you noted are problematic and maybe even a slightly higher cooldown on her teleport could do.
However I would not like this. People always complain that they only play against Nurse, Blight and Wesker. But as soon as another Killer comes and is a bit powerful they want nerfs. This is problematic because if we nerf every good Killer then of course people who play higher MMR will only encounter Nurse, Blight and Wesker 24/7.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494596#Comment_3494596
This is what happens when people keep demanding for killer nerfs, and BHVR releases a bunch of underpowered killers that feel like garbage to play.
Yes, Wesker is used a lot. It really would be super great if BHVR would give killers a good selection of killers.... but they don't! Most killers feel like absolute trash to play against a coordinated SWF, so here we are with a bunch of people playing Wesker.
This is the issue I have with people calling for nerfs on Sadako. She is finally a Killer that gets played and is strong and people are already calling for nerfs to her. If we cut back every Killer to the level of Wraith and only Nurse and Blight (maybe Wesker) are capable of dealing with most survivors then the game is bound to only have those two - three Killers or people who camp/tunnel.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495079#Comment_3495079
That once you inevitably have to return the tape (hence get to 2 stacks) and you immediately try to get a new tape - it's very much possible you will not find another tape. Because there are none. Because killer does not chase, but just teleports and goes for "chases" only until she can use her power again
So...we could just increase her cooldown on the teleport once again and she would be fine because TVs and teleport would be in a better rhythm?
Seems like an easy fix for her and it would also address the issue I saw in another thread where a person complained that her teleport lacks skill. More cooldown would make it so that you have to think more because you are using a valuable rescourc.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495070#Comment_3495070
Sorry. But she is in a state where I can't get to a single WORKING TV in time she is able to give me 5 stacks. And that's on small map. Nope. Not playable. Sorry but this is insta-DC
How?
Every match I play against her starts like this: Start out, notice that it is Sadako, go to a nearby generator as TVs are usually next to them, wait for her starting cooldown and get the tape as soon as her cooldown is off. That way I start the game with a tape and turn off the TV next to me so that I can get to work on the generator. Even if she teleports as soon as she can there is a roughly 1/4 - 1/7 chance that she will get me.
What are your Sadakos doing different from mine?
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@bbqBilly said:
This just reads like a killer player trying to come up with excuses to keep a blatantly overtuned killer in its current form. Managing condemned is not just a minigame, its a full time commitment that is impossible to juggle with everything else that goes on in a game if the killer player is even remotely competent.
We've seen several experienced SWFs with coms struggling against her at this point, if a premade team can't keep up then solo queue players are essentially doomed.
Sad to hear that it reads like that just because I enjoy a horror character which I am a fan of.
Still I doubt your judgment that she is overtuned right now. She has been out for only about a day and survivors had no time to get used to her. Sadako is feeling like a different Killer when you face her right now and people are still playing against her just like they did before. Also good survivors had no time to show how to deal with her and spread the idea around.
The thing is that if you have a single survivor who knows how to handle her and another who just ignored condemn in the same lobby the match will result in a 4k because the bad one drags the others down. A bit like when you are facing Cenobite and your teammate runs to the box while getting chased or like Pig when a new survivor ignores her trap.
As my anecdotal evidence showed my "wins" are mostly because survivors messed up. Something that they can do against Trapper who defends a basement too.
Sadako still is by no means on Nurse or Blight (with add-ons) level. Those are the overtuned Killers who need changes.
Yeah, I saw that.
I still doubt that those survivors where prepared for the new Sadako and had a descent plan when playing these matches. Wait a few day until the surprise-factor is gone and then a video like this will be a good talking point.
I am not saying that there are no tweaks to be made (cooldowns, condemn-buildup and co) just that I enjoy the new Sadako on both sides and that I hope no harsh nerf will hit her (like Wraith back then) when she is not even the worst offender in terms of power level on the Killer side.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493491#Comment_3493491
There's nothing fair or earned about mindless hitting the teleport button every 10 seconds.
Before you had to actually decide which TV has worth teleporting to since survivors would only get condemned within 16 meters of the teleport. Now that it's map-wide there's no reason not to teleport as often as possible.
How could you possibly argue against this change? It ruins the skill expression of the character.
Yet this was an issue because her condemn had zero impact on the match. Getting a survivor to even use your tape was a miracle that never happened and her chase power was just a bad excuse where you could rather play Wraith or even Ghostface for a similar effect.
If they think this mechanic is too strong then they maybe should consider tweaking some of her numbers (condemn amount per teleport etc.). However the general idea is still good and making her condemn map-wide was not a bad change as now survivors finally have to deal with it outside of her slugging-condemn build.
@bbqBilly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493670#Comment_3493670
https://youtu.be/l1ydLZ0_U9s?t=1062
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1882218432?t=03h29m38s
Look at all these competent SWFs with coms that apparently have problems with just "picking up the tape". Its almost as if there is more to the game than this meaningless statement.
She is out for one day and those survivors if they are at Hens level are probably not used to play against any Onryo other than 1-2 one-tricks or challenges. I do not doubt their skill but even they need time to adapt to the changes and the Killers they are facing. Wraith was considered to be over the top too and in hindsight the change to him was too much as survivor have it pretty easy against him.
Back then competent survivors also had to figure out a way to deal with him however the change happened before they could get use to it and show that he was by no means overpowered.
Sadako right now is basically a new killer for most people and cries that she is OP are just as valuable as the cries back then for Nemesis when people complained about him having to hit you three times with his tentacle...give them a bit more time to get used to these changes.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/385091/sadako-is-getting-her-mori-every-game-now
Played 4 games while only using slowdowns + Brutal Strength, kept spamming her power to Condemn everyone, they cannot do gens because of the instant condemned stacks, and I always ended up with 4 Condemned kills at 3-5 gens.
I think they kinda broke her...
And how did your survivors manage their tapes?
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Honestly I think we go against a different killer.
My Onryos where fine. First match I messed up with my condemn and got killed, after that I managed it and everything was fine, no issues. She got a few normal kills as she should but nothing major. Once you adjust yourself to play against her like you would against a new Killer (tapes are mandatory) I think you will be fine.
Killers who slug you to death will always be an issue (hello there Nurse, hello there Huntress). This is not a Sadako-thing but more a general issue.
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@Shroompy said:
Shes in the same boat as Oni. Not only do you need to have a higher level of understanding playing just an M1 killer but you need to find a proper rhythm to make proper use of her power
It amazes me that people immediately jumped the gun and claiming that she got nerfed when shes at the very least high B tier.
I agree with you a lot here.
I play Oni often and once I got Sadako I had a very familiar feeling. If I get in a lot of condemn early then she will steamroll a team because they have to relieve a lot of pressure quickly and you have time for the chases and get the down. However when the survivor are in the flow you will struggle a lot and have to fight for your edge a lot.
@Pepsidot said:
Onryo is a piece of cake to play right now. You don't have to think very hard, especially with the Mother's comb addon. You get a notification whenever a survivor gets a tape and see all the possible TV's they could be heading to.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/W4A0LQ5BW985/image.png
Ring Drawing basically means the survivors should never heal because if they do, they'll get condemned stacks and waste more time having to get tapes to get rid of their condemned. Also, she can shred through pallets since she is hard to stun.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AY1IBVESCWF4/image.png
All my Onryo games have been very easy, maybe she's overtuned?
BUT these are my first impressions, I'm willing to wait a few days to see if any good strats against her arise (if any).
She feels easy now because a lot of survivors will just play against her as they did against the old Sadako.
I had survivors who never every grabbed a tape and once they did and ran into me I hit them, the tape exploded and they became fully condemned...of course I win against this...it is basically the same as going against a Pig and ignoring her trap the entire time and then complain about her getting too many kills.
For me she is a descent Killer now. Let her be, she is a good little ghost now.
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No, I do not.
The issue is that tunneling can backfire very quickly and I have no intention to do that. Sure you can get a lot of pressure but if you make one mistake it is all gone and the match goes downhill from there on. Same if the survivor was just caught in a bad spot but is overall better than me, tunneling will then result in me losing hard.
The only times I tunnel is if a survivor begs for it and it could benefit me (like hitting an "Off the Records"-bodyblock or better: A basekit Borrow Time bodyblock) or if I play Pyramide Head and the survivors make a bad uncage (as in: You uncage the poor soul while I am within 24m).
Going out of your way to tunnel is far to easy to abuse once your survivors have at least a bit of a brain. Some even make it very simple and just start predopping when they are on death hook until they get to a very safe structure which is something even the worst looper can do.
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Honestly I can not relate to the "Killers are op" fraction.
I play both sides and get a mixed bag in both cases. However there is a high tendency for a one sided result even thou that shows nothing about the match itself. As a survivor I have quit many matches where the position would allow for 3 escapes but then altruism kicks in and the match ends with one escape. Same when I play Killer.
Most matches I get stomped as a survivor are either
a) a Nurse
b) a Blight
c) a suicide / dc
d) somebody trying very hard for the flashy save
Playing against anything else than these gives me a pretty good game with some back and forth. At least one survivor dies most of the time.
The worst problem are suicides and dcs. Because even as a Killer I am just there and have no clue what to do now. The match loses its fun the moment one person decides that they do not want to play against Oni/Cenobite/Ghostface or whatever I play. It leaves me with the impression that suiciding or dcing is the equivalent to face-camping for a survivor.
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Survivors got nerfed in their most crucial point: Solo-Healing.
This was always the bane of most Killers existence: Hit a survivors once after some looping, hit them again only to eat Dead Hard, have a person bodyblock and watch all your healing getting undone by a green med-kit with beef inside in 8 seconds. This made playing certain Killers like Wraith, Dredge and other very miserable.
Without those insane med-kits and cycle of healing survivors will now wast much more time and have to coordinate much more to get their healing. Don't forget that solo-healing also always meant that you could do it on your own terms. This is gone now. You get one solo-heal and then you are on your own.
Sure some Killers perks got gutted.
However you maybe now have to look for a different tactic to play the game and not just "defend your three generators". That was the reason Killers got +10 seconds on each gen and some faster actions recently.
If you want to punish solo-healing even more, maybe think about adding Sloppy Butcher or other mangled effects back into your kit. Med-Kits still take a 33% penalty to their healing speed which is roughly equal to a 24 second heal. Now add some sloppy to it and you get a pretty good value. Most Killers have add-ons for this.
Please stop acting as if they buffed survivors somehow. They only added some value to Circle of Healing. You still get a win out of this: Solo healing with the current cycle takes about 21 seconds. The new circle will another survivor to heal you within ~8 seconds which results in 16 seconds in total (2x8) plus the time they take to find each other without discord (+2x). Now to the math how long they would have to run around to beat the new circle: 16+x2 = 21. This anything over 2,5 seconds of time required to find each other is a win over the current version.
I am overall quit happy with this patch. Even thou I think that Call of Brine and Overcharge were a bit overnerfed.
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This is not only about survivors and "they" did not get everything.
Dead Hard is still nerfed, Med-Kits are still nerfed, Cycle of Healing still got the worst aspect cutted down.
Those are 3 aspects about survivors, one which is basekit that got a straight L out of this patch. Killers only got perks nerfed which can be replaced or you can adapt to the changes. Survivor now need to adapt to another change to their basekit, because let us be real: Most survivor who played to "win" were running a med-kit (green with extra charges). Also Hillbilly got his changes to his add-ons reverted leaving him with a straight buff and Pain Res got a buff (it is still a net-nerf by the way).
Not even most Killers wanted them to go through with the nerf to healing (24 seconds). Most wanted to go for 20 seconds or no changes to altruistic healing at all.
Sure, Cycle of Healing go a buff. But you can adjust to that as a Killer with ease now. Not to mention that with one of the main Boons getting kicked all Hexes are getting a "shadow buff".
If you play a Killer with a strong lethality you can even capitalize from the changes: Bubba going to a Cycle of Healing and getting undetectable somehow along the way and getting the jump on two survivors seems fine, same for Killers like Oni, Hillbilly, Ghostface...you get the idea.
@Nihlus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392742#Comment_3392742
Depends on what killer you're running. Most of the top builds for better killers largely just focus on finding surivors ASAP to keep the pressure rolling. Best builds for killers like nurse and huntress, for example, all just use aura perks for the most part. The better you are, the less gen slowdown you need because you can keep the pressure up.
This sums up my playstyle with Oni as well as Ghostface: Slap on Lethal Pursuier and go.
I also would always suggest people to run only 1 regression perk (maybe Corrupt Intervention). When I started the game I ran max regression + NoeD like the noob I was. This hindered my growth with certain Killers very much as the perks carried be to good. Once I went away from that and down to a single regression perk I was forced to get better and it helped me a lot...
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392407#Comment_3392407
-"CoH: still nerfed, DH: still nerfed, Medkits: still nerfed"
Let's look at the big picture since the 6.1 patch.
What killer things got Obliterated?
Pop, PR, Eruption, Ruin.
What killer things got better : 2 stacks of stbfl for free (make the perk base kit /cough).
What things for survivor got Obliterated?
CoH and medkits got nuked but they 100% deserved it. Green medkits healing in 8 seconds is beyond stupid when it takes 20-30 seconds to get a hit vs a strong player.
What got better for Survivor?
They got 10 seconds of BT base kit so now nobody runs BT. Survivors always have 5 perks now and the killer has 4 perks. That means the game is 20 perks vs 4 perks.
What got a slap on the wrist twice?
DH will still be a stupid strong perk. It needs to get equal treatment to what happened with Ruin, PR or Eruption to the point that its usage goes down to 5% or lower.
You ignore that Killers also got a buff by making their pallet breaks faster.
Survivors also got less of a speed boost after each hit and most importantly: +10 seconds of generator time, adding up to around +50 seconds over the match and improving all percentage based regression perks...
I am quit happy as a Killer.
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Hard to say.
Overall my first impression is still "meh". At best you get 4x 25% regression which would be 90 seconds of worth out of the perk. This would be good if there wasn't a slight issue: RNG can mangle your efforts and there is always the possibility of you missing a survivor. This makes it pretty unpredictable.
I would have loved it if the tokens recovered once you hooked every survivor once. Kinda like an inverse BBQ.
Overall this feels like a nerf. The math alone does not support this: At best you get 8 x 15% = 120% out of your Pain Res right now. This assumes that there are 4 instances where you are not able to use the Scourge Hook because [reasons]. Out of this version you get 4 x 25% = 100% if everything adds up. That is a ~16% nerf to the perks which is not that much on paper.
However you take a huge risk here...
What I would consider thou is the possibility to use your Scourge Hook not at the start of the game but rather during the middle when you are down to 2-3 generators. Maybe there is value here if you adjust your playstyle.
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388058#Comment_3388058
I just don't get the strategy and slugging and camping or tunneling at 5 generators??? I said this to someone else I play killer too I'm not opposed to slugging camping or tunneling but why at 5 generators how is that fun? How is it a strategy when the game has just begun and you have time to get a few hooks in? I get more for case when I don't camp slug or tunnel 5 gens or not.
As Oni the strategy is quit simple: I have my power and I want to get something out of it. If I down one survivor and see another nearby I try to get a second down while my power is active.
Usually I injure one survivor, absorb their blood until I get my power while looping them and then make a decision: Do I continue the chase or do I activate my power and try to get the jump on another survivor?
That survivors are at 5 generators has little to do with my decision. However I will not play my Oni badly just because survivors where not able to get a generator done by the time I first get my power. Most survivors do and sometimes I get 2 generators done by the time I am ready, especially when my first hit gets delayed by a good looper. This is Onis nature with risk/reward.
Why should I play this differently on 5 generators?
I am not talking about a 4 minute slug-fest here. Just about 30 seconds to get something out of my power, then come back and go for the pick up. Still I get why people slug sometimes if there is another target nearby.
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3387991#Comment_3387991
Killers shouldn't camp, tunnel or slug at 5 gens.
Because slugging is a risk/reward scenario and sometimes necessary.
If you have a person down and see another waiting with a flashlight it would be stupid to pick up. If you play Oni and have your power on, see somebody on Infectious Fight it would be stupid to not try to get another down. However in both scenarios you risk that the survivor you downed first gets picked up. Slugging is a risky play for a Killer and rightfully so.
If you feed Oni or Plague their power on 5 generators or mess up the attempt at a flashlight save you should get punished which involves slugging. Simple as that.
Camping is mostly dead with Reassurance. However I have no issue to increase the hook timer by 15 seconds and buff Insurance and Kinship by the same amount. However consider that there is the option of "teammate introduced camping": If a survivor loops the Killer right next to the hook or runs to the hook with the Killer on their heels, the Killer should not be punished and the survivor should not get rewarded for their poor decision making.
Finally tunneling. This can go to hell: Buff Decisive Strike back to 5 seconds, maybe even a bit more. That should do the job. Deterrence is the best way to make Killers play a certain way.
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I usually down them and hook them once.
I expect the survivors to be ready when the match starts and will punish being afk. However if the person does not come back I let everybody else have it easy and take the time to practice with my power (trick shots as Slinger, flicks as Oni and so on) this helps me an generally makes for a good game for them too. I do not know if they notice that I play far less serious however I do.
Letting the other suffer for the afk mate feels bad, however I see no incentive to have mercy with the person going afk.
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Please do not just slap mobility onto everything. Plenty of Killers can play an be fun to play against without mobility.
Think about Huntress, Plague, Oni or Pyramide Head.
Huntress has 0 mobility, she even moves at a slower pace. However she is one of the top Killers because of her long range shots and quick downs while still having descent counterplay. I think there are few people who really think that Huntress needs a big change or who can honestly say she is a badly designed Killer. Hell, I dislike playing against her and I am fully aware that this is just my personal dislike and no issue with her.
Pyramide Head is quit similar to Huntress. His ability to ignore walls gives him a great deal of power, however you have clear counterplay to him. His torment can send you to the other side of the map and bypass all "after unhook" perks. Giving that guy mobility would be a huge overkill in my opinion.
Plague also has no mobility but she brings her own element to the game. She forces survivors to make a decision and can vary in power level depending on her mode. Same goes for Oni.
So no, Killers do not need more mobility. They need a clear vision how they are supposed to win and what survivors are supposed to do against them (and no, shift + w or predropping everything is not that).
Take Oni as an example. His power is insane once you get it an it combines mobility and lethality to the extreme. Yet he has clear counterplay: Quick flicks around corners and windows. On certain tiles you can run an Oni like forever. Not to mention Onis power discourages him from tunneling because you get your power for hitting a healthy survivor and you can down healthy survivors just as fast. Clear vision and execution here.
Ghostface also. 0 mobility, yet a very fun Killer to play or to play against. Stalking is almost a minigame "finding Ghostface", yet when you have an idea where he is you can evade him with ease also the reward for revealing him is pretty good for a survivor.
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I have to disagree with some points on your list.
First of all, I do not think that “Chapter 26: Forged in Fog” was badly executed. The visuals, the music and the perk all were quit well received, Vittorio became a popular survivor very quickly and his perks are also quite nice.
While I agree that the Knights power can be used in a very unfun way (drop it at loops) there is an easy counter to act as a deterrence to that gameplay (shift+w). After his buffs the better way is to use his guards for actions, spawn them on healing survivors (further encouraged in the future) or on a generator to double up on the chased survivor.
Same can be said for Tools of Torment. I will cut this short and say that Skull Merchant was disappointing. However the two survivors and their perks are quit good, nicely designed and were also well received. The visual update to the Red Forest maps was also nice as well as the addition to the Shelter Woods map that was honestly just boring to play before and had to many dead zones.
You seem to look only at the Killer when reviewing those chapter when they are much more and that leaves out some important aspects.
Dead Hard was problematic. Even thou it changed it quickly became the top perk in the game again and lead to many situations that were “just wait it out” moments. Sure some Killers could counter that (Wraith) and bait the Dead Hard but using it at a pallet lead to a lose-lose-situation for the Killer.
For the huge reward the perk offered and the options it allowed you the risk was just not there. A change was needed.
The medkit nerfes were also coming for some time. Using them was easy as hell and even bad survivors were getting a huge reward. A beefed up green medkit could literally allow a survivor to heal in less than 10 seconds which is possible even during chase sometimes.
So far you know nothing about how the new medkits will do when facing the perks you mentioned. So for now let us assume that they will overall work the same as before. Right now you can heal trough Sloppy Butcher with a brown med-kit because speed and charges interact in a different way than what you said. Franklys already kills medkits with no add-ons and who aside from a few Masterminds runs Coulrophobia?
Here I suggest we wait until we see how exactly they are going to change med-kits. If they still offer you one solo-heal per trial than you will have nothing to complain about.
Balancing around the better players is usually the better way to do it. You can not balance a game around “bad” or “mediocre” players because if something is broken it is broken and you only incentivice people to learn how to abuse something, hindering growth of players as well as the game development in general.
However on Pain Resonance you make a good point for the overall issue: “if it is popular it needs changes” is a terrible idea. This should not take hold and issues should not be addressed in that manner. The nerfs to Hillbilly show how wrong you can go on that route and we already saw this issue with the nerfs to the Twins in a former patch (where also Blights Adrenaline Vial was buffed for no reason).
However then you contradict yourself: “… the neutering of perks and in game mechanics disillusion your player base and reduce the skill ceiling …” What happened to “… Everyone else who is not a 2k+ hour survivor pro be damned.”? Either way you want a skill ceiling or you do not. Pick your poison.
If we want a skill ceiling and med-kits make the game to easy because you do not have to coordinate with your team, then med-kits be damned. If we do not want that then the flashlight mechanics on Artists, Nurse and Hag be damned.
Also you fail to address two of the most important issues: That altruistic healing was never a problem and that they buff things based on statistics too (Pyramide Head, Pig etc.) which is not a good idea as well (leading to something like Adrenaline Vial).
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Well, let me give you some feedback to your suggestions point by point. Maybe you can flesh out your ideas a bit. However, I will not address all of them.
Your suggestion is to complex and honestly not very necessary right now. With the introduction of the perk “Reassurance” and the option to bring “Deliverance” he survivor side has a strong option against camping.
If anything, you can make a very simple change here to address the issue at hand: Raise the hook timer per stage a bit and allow Reassurance to be applied per hook stage not per hook. The idea is that Killers will face a heavy deterrence from camping if all generators can be complete with just one person using Reassurance.
We already saw a good decline in camping thanks to Reassurance. Why take a different approach when we already have a good route to success?
Dead Hard: Again to complicated. With your suggestion I would just spam Dead Hard until I get a successful activation in a moment of need. The Exhaustion is on that perk to keep me from just feathering the E button during a chase. If anything we could consider reducing the Exhaustion timer to something like 20/15/10 seconds to keep it.
Ruin change sounds fun. I take it.
Decisive Strike again to complicated. The easy suggestion is to just make it twice per match (no deactivation) and rise the stun duration to 5 seconds again. Same effect, less trouble.
As you see my main issue with your suggestion is that they are a bit complicated. Dead by Daylight is quit a simple game and intuitive. When making suggestion you should not aim to make the game more difficult to understand and keep changes as simple as possible.
It is a bit like playing Go.
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This is nothing new. Tunneling a person out of the game is the most effective tactic available right now and it will remain so.
If I tunnel you right off the hook and give you no time to heal it does not matter if said heal would have taken 24 seconds or 6 seconds. The only option to heal a tunneled survivor is For the People and that remains untouched. Bodyblocks from random teammates are rare and few already and that will not change. The only way to bring in more bodyblocks would be if you made Dead Hard activate on a protection hit as well in the future.
I strongly disagree with your idea that this patch will lead to more tunneling. Quit the opposite. If the person off the hook has Off the Record or Borrow Time I now have to targets in front of me: One that is injured but has a second health state with a boost (speed or silence) and one that does not have a boost but also two health states. Usually it will be better to hit the new survivor.
This is kinda the same game a when you play Pig: You do not chase the guy with the party hat.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384657#Comment_3384657
I have used that combo too. Sb pretty much is requirement with otr. I can see it being good antitunneling combo for not experienced survivors or not great loopers. But still if killer hard tunnels/camp and hit you right after your unhooked he counters both of them.
With ds and dh there is no easy counter but they do take more skill. But you can usually make it to safe loop with basekit bt already. The thing with ds is you can play very greedy it does not matter if you go down or they don't even get you. After ds is gone with dh you can still be greedy and after you're used that then you can play more safely but at that point you're probably looped the killer almost 2 minutes. Meaning 3 gens could be done in that time. Adrealine then will give you speed boost quite often if you use that as well.
Yeah, you are quit right here. My combination is pretty much the easy way (which is why I recommend quit often).
I still hope that they revert the changes to DS a bit and make it 5 seconds again. With the condition to be deactivated during the endgame and if you touch anything useful the perk had been nerfed to a reasonable level. Reducing it to 3 seconds was just a bit overkill and even when I tried to run it with Parental Guidance or Tenacity (to get to a better spot) it never quit got the results a 5 second stun would have yielded.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384663#Comment_3384663
id like to explain my reasoning. huntress is B tier, but I can see arguments for her being A. Oni is good, but because he is so reliant on that first hit you can go a whole game and only get 1-2 power procs if survivors play well.
anyway, literally any killer can get away with no gen regression perks. obviously you cant 4k every game but thats because the game isnt balanced around being able to 4k every game
Thanks. I may have to disagree on Oni but that does not change the overall argument made here.
For me the issue with gen-regression is less a single perk but the ability to stack them on top of each other. Call of Brine and Overcharge on their own are no problem even on stronger Killer but a welcome clutch for most mid and low tier Killers. Stacking them however is quit bad and amplifies each perk beyond what should be possible in the first place.
I think you can run most Killers with just one regression perk an be fine. Ghostface just with Jolt is able to yield good results as is Wraith as an example.
Maybe we should suggest to the devs that stacking regression is an issue...
@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384643#Comment_3384643
Freddy’s whole play style literally revolves around kicking gens. He’s garbage without regression.
Yeah, good old "pop goes the Freddy"...maybe his playstyle was bit boring but he was such a fine Killer to get a bit of M1 with a bit of map mobility and get used to applying pressure to generators. You could just take BBQ, Pop and two other random perks and where ready to go on a boring but educating journey.
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Depends on how you run them and how you plan to play.
Pig can get away with just Corrupt Intervention which is not a regression perk per se.
Pinhead has his own slowdown and can use it to play without any regression perk should he chose to.
If you play dirty, Trickster and Cannibal can just camp (unless a person had a heart and bought Reassurance) and play without it.
@AnchorTea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384622#Comment_3384622
Those characters are NOT mid-tier.
However you missed the very serious question: Which Killer is mid tier for you?
Otherwise you get comments like this (and rightfully so) who say that Killer xyz is not "mid-tier". And I have to agree: Oni and Huntress are not mid-tier. Cenobite and Plague are up for debate. However I can not see you running Demogorgon without any slowdown successfully unless you are a very, very good Demo-player.
I would also like to add: Killers who have a slowdown by themself like Cenobite and Wesker are not mid-tier because of this very thing. Cenobites chase power is medium at best for the skill it requires, however his box even if solved every time gives him a sweet pillow of passive slowdown that makes his gameplay much more manageable.
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Dead Hard will still be played. Especially by people who enjoy Mettle of Memes or who run a build with a bit focus on unhooking.
I can totally see Dead Hard getting run with "We'll make it" and "Borrow Time". However I agree that triggering it via protection hit as Pulsar suggested would be a better choice and more thematic with David.
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384000#Comment_3384000
That is much worse than ds and dh combo. Killer can hit Otr immediatelly away and then down you like it didn't even exist... But ds takes deep wound away which means you can use dh after that making chase last potentially about 2+ minutes making tunneling unviable. But now that will be gone making tunneling most viable option always. You could technically use Otr in this combo but I think it bit too much most killers anyway hit you while you still have basekit bt. So you could use something more useful like adrealine.
Honestly my best "anti-tunnel" build was Off the Record and Sprint Burst. Plain and simple.
You get off the hook, you run to a save loop. If the Killer follows you, let them eat Off the Record. Even with the one extra hit it still gives you and aura-reading block and 0 noise from your injury which lets you mind game far better. I had enough Killers fall for this simple combo and it takes less skill then hitting e at the right time.
Camping is killed if one of your mates had a heart and enjoys a bit of Reassurance. The punishment for a Killer trying to camp while you just reassure is pretty good. Sure you maybe need to leave the one person behind but 3 escapes is very easy here especially if you maybe go for an exchange once. Been there, done that, works.
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Cycle of Healing has its merits but you should not run it on its own. I can see the good old "save-zone" boon (Healing+Shadow Step) in use, yes, but overall I would recommend different healing perks now. Perks that give you a flat percentage reward or who increase the speed without any further requirements.
- If you face hit and run I would give "Reactive Healing" a shot, 50% healing will mean a lot more in the future.
- If you want a sure bet, take "Botany Knowledge".
- If you save from the hook, take "We'll make it" (already very good).
- If you like to play risky, take "For the People" and "Second Wind" (Renewal).
- If you want to play Medic, take "Renewal".
Overall I do not see Cycle at the same highs anymore. However it is not totally useless. We have to do a lot try and error to figure out the best option in the future.
There are however some good options on the table already even without "Inner Healing" and "Adrenaline".
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Oh, where you one of the few poor souls who ran into my "endgame-Freddy" last week?
I sure had a blast with NoeD, Bloodwarden, No Way Out and Remember Meme....
Now seriously, NoeD is no issue. Either give the Killer the one kill or find those bones. Unless the survivor got hooked right next to it, you have a very descent change to get the bones broken in time.
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The devs update is kinda mixed bag for me. There are many good things, bad things and things I do not care about.
First the good things:
- Nerfig Med-Kits is pretty nice, those were very strong and made it pretty hard to get value out of certain Killers. Not to mention that the combination of Cycle + Metkits killed all hit-and-run Killers like Wraith.
- Reworking some Auto Heaven maps is a good choice. I hate those maps as Ghostface and I hate those maps against Huntress. Making them more balanced is a nice idea and I hope it works.
- Visual Terror Radius is also a very good thing and I very much hope that this will help a lot of people.
However there are many bad things:
- Nerfing altruistic healing is bad in my opinion. Altruistic Healing was never an issue for me as Killer and I very much capitalized on it when survivor did that. Be it when I used Nurses Call on Pyramide Head or Ghostface or just the fact that survivors where not doing generators when they healed. I strongly hope that the Devs thing about this again and do not nerf altrusitic healing that much (18 seconds would be okay).
- Nerfing the Hillbilly without compensation is just a kick in the face for poor Billy players. This change goes into a very wrong direction. Billy has two things that make him unique: That he can curve and that he can have map mobility via his chainsaw. Both will get killed by the implied changes and even more by nerfing his engravings. Nobody ever complained about Hillbilly engravings. People enjoyed facing curve-Billy.
- Killing Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain the wrong way is just bad. Please consider to restock the stacks one every survivor had been hooked once! This would mean a strong incentive for Killers to share hooks equally and not tunnel or camp.
Overall trading off gen-slowdown for more slowdown via injuries is a fine idea and I like it. It can feel pretty frustrating to have a generator regress from 80% down to 0% because Blight stacked Call of Brine and Overcharge. However this is pretty backwards in my opinion. Just like survivors are not able to stack exhaustion perks Killers should not be able to stack regression. As long as you allow stacked regression you will run into the same trouble over and over again.
Still a good trade off.
However I also must compliment them for being daring. Too often they change too little and this hurts us because without mistakes and improvement takes to long and stagnation takes hold. Daring changes like these are very much appreciated.
I would also like to encourage every Killer and Survivor player to go onto the PTB and try their best. Do not play Clown, bring your A-Game and show how you will abuse the new perks and changes in the upcoming months. The earlier we can give the devs feedback on the changes with significant implication then better.
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@Regulus47 said:
Good.
I know it sounds harsh, but there are plenty of other alternatives for slowdown if players feel like they need it. Pain res, DMS, jolt, overcharge, COB, deadlock, pop, merciless, gift of pain, plaything+pentimento, thana+dying light, even ruin is still pretty underrated when mixed with surveillance or undying. The Devs seem to finally be taking the game towards a place where gen slowdown doesn't need to rule the meta anymore, and that should be celebrated.
Maybe we can consider tweaking E-crutch-on back to being strong in the future, but I don't blame the Devs for taking the nuclear option to ensure eruption was out of the meta, kinda like old Legion. In its place, I'd be happy if Pop was buffed a bit. For the most part, Pop was healthy, it rewarded quick hooks and not camping. Eruption rewarded camping a 3-gen and slowly whittling away at the survivors until the servers shut down.
This pretty much sums it up.
Eruption was good when you play Killer but I have no hard feeling letting it go because as a survivor it was just infuriating. We did not notice it because it was sleeping for the most part because Ruin and Pop were just everywhere and people had no desire to try other things.
@Wampa1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3346991#Comment_3346991
Most of the “slowdown” perks you list have been nerfed in the recent or distant past and are now either very weak ,poorly designed or a combination of the two.
You think so?
For me at least PainRes, Jolt, Call of Brine and Deadlock are quit serious slowdown perks with PainRes/DMS still being one of the best combos to run when you have no other idea.
Only Thana, Dying Light and Ruin are in a bad spot when you use them alone. Pop, Merciless and Gift of Pain are okay when they fit into the build (Merciless is quit strong on Doctor) and Overcharge demolishes the medium-good survivor.
There is enough slowdown in the game that is playable for me.
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@Bot_Salvo88 said:
I do have like 35k shards accumulated over the last couple of months. But everyone chooses what to do with their money. If I decide to buy the upcoming chapter with my money it's up to me.
During the cheaters epidemic, I didn't give them a cent because (in my opinion) they needed to fix a lot of things about it. After I noticed that they were taking this situation very seriously, I decided to buy the rift, some licenced characters and so on because (always in my opinion) they did the right thing and deserve my support.
This new chapter brings 2 reworked maps, the addition of a main building in Shelter woods (maps are free), 1 new killer, 2 new survivors and a total of 9 new perks. I think it's completely fair to support them after all of this.
That's how I see it.
Same here.
They added a few good things and also took care of some aspects that were important to me. The buffs for the Knight now allows me to play him without that obnoxious "drop guard@loop lol" playstyle, they did something about cheaters (not sure what, but it worked), the last few events were fun and overall I am having fun with the game.
They even listens about Nurse and made her attack a basic attack which was a long time wish of many people I knew.
People complaining about BHVR wanting to make money...umm...they are a company, they have workers to pay and funny enough that requires money. Also BHVR are not the usual slave-drivers to their devs which in my opinion shows (I still like Dredge, think Pinhead was a very faithful adaptation and I enjoy the Knight). This all costs and as such of course they aim to make money.
@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347540#Comment_3347540
Yeah, its strange I find nothing woke about this upcoming chapter.
What kind of complain is that supposed to be in the first place...
The chapter being "too woke"? Like...where?
I would understand the chapter not being "robotic", "transhuman" (think Warhammer mechanicus like) or overall "bloody" enough. Maybe "too colourful"...but this....
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@Krazzik said:
It's been suggested before and it's a terrible idea. The killer would find the weak link and relentlessly tunnel them out of the game, and now the good survivors are all on death hook.
This begs the question if we are to consider this a team game or a solo game.
If this is a team game than you are responsible for your weak link and have to protect it. The Killer finding the weak link and exposing the flaw would thus be a good player taking advantage of a situation against a team.
If this is a solo game than I agree with you and the idea is bad.
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@Crowman said:
You basically just want to drop his guards to push survivors away from loops. The guard doesn't need to trigger a hunt, as long as the survivor moves away from the loop. You really don't have time to make complex paths.
The other use for his guards I found is to place them down before picking someone up against flashlights or sabo since they can't flashlight save or sabo without consquences due to the guards.
Honestly that was what I thought. But shift+w is far too easy against this and as long as the survivor is not a potato you will not get them with this.
@Shaped said:
Hold w makes his power obsolete in chases. People just run from tile to tile and you are wasting time not even getting rid of pallets. You are not doing anything basically while gens pop.
I play him as m1 killer and use guards to push survs away from certain areas in most cases. I also try not to spend too much time setting a route.
He is effective at camping tho and 3 gen scenarios are unwinable against him since you can just spam his power.
And I don't like how those feel like his biggest strengths. I love how he looks and sounds like but I feel like I have to play dirty more often than with other killers I play if I don't want to be sh on.
This is the better way to go.
You want to use information perks like his own "Nowhere to hide", "A Nurses Calling" or other stuff like that to interrupt survivors. Sloppy Butcher helps tons because you get good value from interrupting a healing with your guard even if they are not caught. Try to cut them off from the next strong loop and then sandwich them with your guard. You need to plan ahead with the Knight and use the ability to hold two places at once.
Do not expect the Guard to do things on their own. If you get a hit in the distance that's fine but never to be expected. However note that chasing survivors off generators can wast plenty of their time not just the guard hunt but also the time it takes to get back to the gen...
@katoptris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296012#Comment_3296012
You can't camp with knight's power. Anyone unhooking during a hunt will make the guard dissapeared
Oh how I wish my teammates would get that...most survivors I play with just hide until the hunt is over only for the Knight to spot them during that time...
Overall you should use the Knights power for interrupts and the Carnifex to smash pallets. Only go for the "loop-drop" when you are at a very bad tile (shack) to pressure the survivor into a better tile. I also had good success by baiting with this: Run into the loop, the survivor holds shift+w, I send my guard to a nearby gen with other survivors, switch target and force the new survivor to run into my guard for an easy first hit.
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Seems to me like once again stacking the regression perks is the issue here. This whole "holding hostage" plan would never work with only one of those regression perks as they are not strong enough by themself.
I play plenty of Killer and I still think that stacking regression is a BS "build". It is boring and brings little interaction to the table aside from drawing out the match ad nauseam.
Three gening is a valid idea and not a bad thing per se. The problem comes from the stacked regression.
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Playing Cenobite made it so much easier to face him...and enjoy facing him.
You can do so many things to screw a Cenobite when you solve that box at a bad tile or when he is in chase with somebody else. Also it allows for an easy way to take heat to rescue your mates that are dead on hook...Cenobites box mechanic is far more interactive than most survivors who just pick it up and solve it think...
Good summary of things to do and things to consider.
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I have little to no issue with Dead Hard right now. Most survivors are just very obvious when they want to bait it.
Sometimes it can become frustrating but when I get fed up I just use something with deep wounds and laugh at them. This single change that you can no longer Dead Hard while deep wounded made it so much better for me.
As for baiting. Wraith is very good with this. Also sometimes you just have to swing and be unpredictable. Getting a reaction Dead Hard when you do not lunge is pretty much a high risk gamble in your favoure.
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I think the best an easiest way to get use out of this perk is this: Have one person use it on the team. They start at a single generator at the edge of the map while somebody gets the Killers attention and repair it. However you use Potential Energy here.
You pop the generator as the first one is pretty easy. Then take the energy to a dangerous combination of generators who would make a pretty bad three-gen and start here again not adding the energy straight away but rather keeping it and only release it when you must.
Basically you spend addition time at the start to get a bonus for one more generator where you would have much more pressure from the Killer. However this requires good knowledge or a safe generator at the start. Combine this with a Brand New Part for even better potential: PE gives you 20%, Brand New gives you 25%, adding up to 45% in an instant to any generator.
The issue is that all combinations are only good for 3+ people playing together. SoloQ gets little to nothing from this aside from a neat animation for the perk...
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Because now you have to put some thought into her, like watching the grass, hearing for footsteps and listening to breathing sound. Also you can no longer tunnel with her when somebody has "Off the Record" which turns off some people too.
Many are also not able to deal with her basic ability without Mother-Daughter Ring and Yakiyoki Amulet. They will only play her sometimes with those add-ons.
I bet good Spirit players still have zero issues with her. They are maybe a bit bothered by some of the new maps like Eary of Crows because many of them have different sounds that can be pretty irritating.
For me I can not play her while talking to my friends. This made me drop her because I need to focus on sound which can be pretty hard when you are talking about the newest pokemon games over at discord...
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I checked this with a friend and we loaded a costume game 5 times and got this every time.
When testing it we quickly saw how absurd this structure had become: You have no way to mindgame it as the survivor can see you through windows the entire time, the vault is super safe by this in both directions as suddenly you can take it from the inside and the outside with no lost distance and you still have the basic shack benefits...
This is an atrocity of a loop.
@AMOGUS said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272562#Comment_3272562
How does a rock in the way make it stronger? If anything, that's more distance for a Survivor to travel to loop around the shack, allowing you more time to catch up.
Normally a survivor looses distance when they try to fast vault the window by going into shack as the Killer can just walk close to shack while the survivor has to go a bit off to make the angle right. This bush changes that: The natural angle is now a fast vault inwards.
The survivor now has a super safe position where they can wait: Right in front of the window. You will always see what the Killer is doing as this particular shack has glass windows and you can see through between the bush and the shack. Most quick hits on shack are thanks to a mind game and this make the tile not mind-gameable.
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My worst experience so far was yesterday: We played on Badham and got a pretty good map, the Killer however has Corrupt Intervention. As such I run off into the map searching for a free generator and run into a Clow. Clown chases me for a bit however hits me with a Pinky Finger and I go down and go on the hook. A teammate takes this as "oh no, I am out" and DCs.
The match was perfectly winnable. The Clown was not even camping me, Corrupt Intervention was lifted by me going down and the two other mates were already on separate generators, my one friend who was on discord with me even confirmed that we had a pretty damn strong house of pain...
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Overall you can play that way but you need to have teammates who do something right, like not unhooking you in the Killers face, not run to the hook while being chased, taking the heat for you and so on. Most Killers are fine with going after another survivors however when you are the only one they find this gets hard.
Against a hard camping Killer most of those perks are useless. Best idea here for solo players is just to run Sprint Burst and Off the Record to get away quickly. However the person going for the rescue better brings Deliverance or the whole cycle starts again. At least all three of those perks are pretty good and not wasted slots...
An issue for survivors is that you do not get value out of those perks when a Killer plays "fair". It is the same dilemma as with UnbreakaBill: The perk is wasted 90% of the time and you just straight up loose the other 10%.
Tunneling and camping are best dealed with by using deterrence: Having a perk in the game that punished you harshly when you commit to a certain action (such as UnbreakaBill). This was why old Decisive Strike was a good idea on paper and only got ruined by people abusing it when a Killer was not tunneling.
I think the issue would get less worse when more people use Kindred and Reassurance to punish camping Killers. Same for new Borrow Time and Off the Record+Sprint Burst.
@Jeromy137 said:
Endurance perks like otr and bt are honestly worthless especially when dealing with tunneling or camping killers it is also really dumb that you can not get those effects after 5 gens are done I get it if the gate is open that is more fair for killer but survivors not getting a chance to tank a hit off hook after 5 gens are done and no gates powered is unfair
Especially in scenarios when you are being chased otr still active tunnelling killer catching up on you oh 5th gen is done otr deactivates killer hits you down even though you technically had 10-30 seconds left on otr
I get what you mean, but it is the same for Killers with Adrenaline or Hope. Those perks are bound by their nature to be swingy for a huge effect. Nothing like seeing the last gen finished and you Adrenaline triggers during a chase.
I think a "fair" change would be to make those perks always work after the first hook (hook, not hook state) and only work on the second hook before the last generator.
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An ingame voice chat would be a pretty bad idea thou. I hate talking to people online who I do not know and also discord exists. Also it would add to salt, insults and harassment.
Icons would be great to fix most of the issues and I hope BHVR makes this change one day. At least an icon that shows who is chased by the Killer would be such a great thing and the technology should already be in place as you can see when the Obsession is being chased.