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@Chaogod said:
Skill issue. If you can't win most of your games as the easiest role in a video game ever then I think this game isn't for you. They already given survivor so many handicaps as it is.
The same can be said about killer.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576601#Comment_3576601
You are aware this isn't the last ever update DBD is going to get right?
There are Killer perks I think that need looking at, but MFT has been riding high for months, the data is in, and it needed dialing back. Survivors recently got bots, AFC, Xeno nerfs, Skull Merchant nerfs, great perks on Gabriel, Ripley and Nick Cage... noone really cared about those perks cause MFT was so much better.
Everyone is acting like it's a dead perk, it's not... it's still a good perk that helps vs. Tunneling AND Slugging, but it isn't the meta redefining perk it was before. A perk doesn't have to be better than Sprint Burst to be worth running.
Yes I'm aware this is not the last update DBD will ever get, that's not the point though.
I agree that MFT needs a nerf and I actually quite like what they did with it.
My issue is that it's a very one-sided update, they're updating two Maps Loop wise they're giving Trickster a buff and their nerfing a Survivor perk.
Regarding Killer perks
Face The Darkness, Save The Best For Last, Sloppy Butcher, Ultimate Weapon, Make Your Choice, Awaken Awareness, Fear Monger, Coulrophobia, Franklin's Demise.
The Devs could have picked just One Killer perk any Killer perk rework it and add it to this update but they didn't.
You see my point right? This isn't a balanced or Fair update (in my opinion) and if the Devs aren't going to nerf a Killer perk then maybe there's something else they do so that this would be a fair and balance update.
Developer updates like this one are usually months apart so if they decide to look at reworking Killer perk(s) it won't be for a while.
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The fact that they're not reworking a killer perk, doesn't feel like a balance or Fair update.
I use the word "Fair" because that's the word the Devs used when explaining why they're reworking mft.
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@OutlawRacer666 said:
I think the vast majority of the community would be thrilled to have Sam and Dean as survivors with Lucifer as the killer!
Sam & Dean Yes!!!! But maybe Dick Roman?
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@Worgen said:
Massive skillissue, he dosent need changes.
You literally have to stop solving the Box in order to dodge the chains and then the progress resets back to zero.
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476122#Comment_3476122
Well there is your anti-slug feature. You got a free health state perk. Now you want another?
Only if a Killer decides to slug long enough for me to use a mechanic that's like Unbreakable.
Again DS can only be used once after each hook state so it's hardly an anti-slug feature.
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495670#Comment_3495670
Killers just want 4ks every match and they don't want to work to get those 4ks.
That's why Wesker, Blight, Skull Merchant and now Sadako, exist. No skill killers that get brain-dead 4ks.
Sad but true
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495803#Comment_3495803
Let's be real, being slugged is always better than being hooked no matter how you think.
I'd rather be hooked over slugged, especially if nobody's coming to get me.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493599#Comment_3493599
What? If the devs themselves have showed off the feature in question and confirmed that its coming, its confirmed. and the bots are quite good actually.
I just mean talking is different than actually creating a ptb or an actual updated for it, until they do that you can't really complain about self elimination or self unhooking.
We could have different ideas on what makes a good Bot Survivor, I just heard from Friends what they thought of the Bots.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493471#Comment_3493471
They are adding a feature to completely eliminate camping, this has been confirmed.
They just added DC bots too so removing self sliminating would be great. They HAVE to eat the penalty and their team gets a bot.
The anti-camping mechanic is not confirmed until they actually add it to the game
I heard from friends that the Bots suck, I haven't updated dbd yet so I haven't seen from myself what they're like.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490098#Comment_3490098
Sorry I mispoke. Im agreeing with you, I havent slept in like 24 hours and I mispelled remove as removing making it look like im disagreeing. My bad.
Self-eliminating on hook is stupid and shouldnt be in the game. The 4% mechanic is kind of bad as well, giving a chance to clutch just because you are lucky. I think self unhooks should be relegated to deliverance and slippery meat reworked.
The Devs shouldn't do anything about self elimination or self unhooking until they do something about Camping.
Camping a survivor without allowing them to jump off the hook or self-elimited is holding them hostage in a match where they don't get to do anything.
Well I actually don't think removing self elimination or self unhooking would be a good idea cuz people would dc if there not having fun anyway.
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@CatnipLove said:
Maybe they could make CoH stronger but make it cause exhaution when healed so it can't be abused. Or maybe have people who are healed in it's radius gain endurance for a few seconds. Something to make it a bit spicier. I have no idea how to buff the others without them becoming too strong.
To have CoH cause exhaustion wouldn't be a bad idea if it allowed you to heal yourself.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Pretty much all hte boons are very underwhelming and niche. Even the best one (shadowstep) is okay at best
There's 2 ways you can go about it I think. Make boons single use, but make their effects map wide. Theyre strong but once the killer snuffs them theyre gone for good.
Or give individual buffs to every boon perk + a small range increase to all of them.
I personally am sick of all of the Perk changes Buffs and Nerfs, that they've been doing recently it's annoying and it makes it hard to trust DLCs knowing that they can change perks however they want whenever they want, it feel like you're not actually getting what you paid for Via real money or iridescent sharks.
I do wish they would revert some of the perk changes they've done and then stop focusing on perks and focus on literally anything else that can make this game fun.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
Please, I’m begging you.
I have only recently P100’d my main and my games have been MISERABLE ever since. Killers are going out of their way to tunnel, slug and hit me on hook me. I’ve not changed a single thing about the way I play the game except now I’m a P100.
There is absolutely no reason a killer should have this information in the pre-game lobby. We don’t get to see if we are going against a P1 or a P100 Blight until the end of the match! Survivors are not allowed to dodge that, yet they can dodge a lobby with our prestiges shown. Or even worse, bully us in game because of it.
It’s actually ridiculous.
100%
I don't get why they allow Prestige Levels to show in Pre-game Lobby, it's an unnecessary Flex.
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As Killer fun isn't an ez 4k
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/381985/a-new-anti-toxicity-feuature
You should only get a way to ######### quicker. Why should you get yet another free health stage? Already get too many with all those extra health stage perks like DS.
You only get DS after you get hooked you only get one chance to use it within a 60 second timer and if you do a anything before using DS then you lose it until you get hooked again, and it deactivates when the exit gates are powered.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470970#Comment_3470970
Use them on your team then like they are ment for.
I soloq why would I use my medkit on randoms who don't heal me regardless if I heal them.
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470970#Comment_3470970
I use them regularly. I will still take them over any other item.
They are still worth it. I have always used only brown medkits, so couldn't care less about rarity nerfs.
@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470970#Comment_3470970
How is it "not worth bringing" when it still allows you to heal solo (twice with addon) at lot higher efficiency than healing others? I don't get it.
The Med-Kits are a Healing Item used to speed up Healing Actions on other Survivors, who are either injured or dying.
The rarer the Med-Kit, the faster its Altruistic Healing speed.
Med-Kits can also be used to self-heal when injured, but this applies a considerable speed de-buff and an Efficiency penalty to the Item, allowing for a maximum of just one full self-heal with any Med-Kit, making it a wasteful action on rarer Med-Kits and in general an action that should only be taken in dire situations.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470762#Comment_3470762
Is that how it works? Just because you started to play one role more, you consider yourself main?
If so then I am survivor main and I think medkits are fine as it is.
You think its fine that Medkits are not worth bringing?
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@AngelOfHope2017 said:
BHVR: I want to preface this by saying that I am a killer main with 4000+ hours in the game. I do play survivor, but only when my friends are playing. However, I mostly play killer. As a killer, the only perk I ever wanted nerfed was Dead Hard. I have not been a cry baby about any other perk, not even Boil Over.
I hate the changes to medkits and Circle of Healing.
First of all, I spent a lot of bloodpoints on characters to get purple medkits that are now worthless. When I'm in a match, I use my medkit on myself and that's it. You want to nerf medkits? You can do it so that when you heal yourself it is massively slower, not less charges.
Secondly, Circle of Healing has no point now. If you want to nerf it, make it so you heal yourself massively slower. The perk is not viable as is.
I never had an issue with people healing "too fast" or "too many times" in a game. These nerfs to medkits have already made some of my friends leave the game altogether (most were survivor mains).
KILLERS: If you don't like medkits, bring Franklin's. If you don't like Circle of Healing, snuff out the boon. Simple.
100%
They could have nerfed CoH to 35% but still let you heal yourself with it
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3464312#Comment_3464312
You are asking the killer to slow down their main objective. If killers have to be fine with survivors slamming gens survivors have to be fine with killers slamming kills.
So the survivors who want to keep slamming gens should not be complaining about tunneling. That's hypocrisy otherwise.
The killers main objective is kills, you are asking them to get a kill partway then go work on another one or do something else. The survivor equivalent would be to do a gen partway, then go work on another one or do something else.
Just because the killer has different ways to delay themselves doesn't change that they're doing it. Survivors have their own ways to delay themselves.
Survivors need gens and killers need kills. To use your phrase, I don't see why killers should have to slow down just because of survivors inability to keep up with kill speeds.
Killers have regression, survivors have gen speed perks and toolboxes. Survivors have looping to delay downs and by extension kills.
Any other strat is delaying yourself significantly since currently nothing compares to getting a player out the game ASAP. Not tunneling is not fully trying to win. You're handicapping yourself. Same as not focusing gens.
Everything you're saying about killers can be reflected to survivors in their own version, so both either slow down or shouldn't expect the other to do so while they don't.
Killer is also miserable when gens fly.
Tunneling is an optional play style, when I played Survivor I went against plenty of killers who didn't need to tunnel to get a 4K I watch plenty of streamers who play killer and they don't need to tunnel to get a 4K, it's not handcuffing yourself to try other play styles that you may or may not be good at. Some Killers just don't want to try other ways of getting kills because they're possibly afraid of losing.
@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3464247#Comment_3464247
Killers SHOULD be allowed to do these thing IF they want to.
If killer mains showed up and said that "survivors shouldn't be allowed to stun with pallets" or "bring flashlights" or "perform team heals, so tawxic!" They would get laughed out of the room
"Survivors can just do gens! Everything else is just optionnal."
Is a bad argument the same way yours is.
Stop trying to dictate how others should have THEIR fun.
I'm not deciding anything for anybody these are just my opinions this whole thread is about opinions.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3464258#Comment_3464258
I'm not sure what you mean by saying survivors should be ok with losing. Even with tunneling you're going to lose as you could with gen focus.
But like I said, is it possible sure the same way its possible for survivors to win while doing all totems and chest and spreading their gen progress. They don't "need" to focus gens they want to.
I wouldn't say its reasonable to ask people to play sub optimally on purpose while trying to win, especially whole they don't do the same on their side. If its the most efficient strategy then it is what it is. We should buff other strats up to that level before dragging this one down.
You seem to be making it about ego when generally that's not really the case. People just want their best shot at winning, which yeah that makes complete sense. You don't have an ego just because you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot every match.
Now if both sides agree to play sub optimally than sure that's different since it'll equalize the playing field, but that's not really what I see being expressed.
I meant it sounds like you're telling survivors they should be okay with being tunneled out of the game because that's the only play style some Killers choose.
Gens are the main objective for survivors that's how they escape, unless there's only one Survivor in the game in which they can try to find hatch before the killer does. Tunneling is an optional play style it's one way killers are able to do their objective But not the only way.
Survivors need Gens to get as many as possible out of the exit gates unless the devs decide to add a third way for more then one survivor to escape. (Not sure what that could be)
Considering Gens are already 90 seconds long and Killers have Gen regression perks, and their goal is to get Hooks/Kills (As in occupying a survivor's time and taking them away from a Gen) and once a Survivor has been hooked three times they're out of the game while the killer gets to go all the way until the end, I don't see why survivors should have to slow down because of a Killers inability to keep up with regressing the Gens, that's a part of the challenge Killers face in this game if you don't have that then and the only thing you have to worry about is whether or not the Survivor you're chasing is good at looping which for me would take away from playing Killer and make it boring and almost predictable, as in if I knew I had a whole chunk of time to stay in a chase for far too long or to get the amount of kills I want to be happy.
I never said Killers should stop getting hooks or kills or not try to win I'm saying they should use different play styles, when every killer you go against tunnels you out of the game as soon as possible it makes it very unappealing to play Survivor.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449540#Comment_3449540
I mean, they are achievable with tunneling sure. That's still earning it.
Is it possible without? Sure. Is it reasonable? No.
The general consensus is that going for hooks is just not a consistently viable strategy with any type of competent survivor team.
If you believe that killers like Trapper, Myers, Ghostface, and Legion can go for hooks and still win against any sort of good team on a consistent basis, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I say this as someone who plays for hooks. It's not a good strategy. I just have more fun playing that way to be in chases as much as possible and to feel like I'm always active, amongst other things. I'd rather fun than be playing "optimally" but that's just me.
So yeah we agree it's possible for Killers to "Win" without tunneling, they don't have to Tunnel they want to, it's 100% reasonable to observe other strategies the fact that you don't is a mindset you put yourself in because you don't want the possibility that you might not "Win" and you don't want to be okay with "Losing" even though you're telling survivors they should be okay with "Losing"
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449531#Comment_3449531
but camping, slugging and tunneling isn't against any rule in the game.
It's against the survivor rulebook for killers, which is categorized under "fantasy' at the bookstore.
Why the hell would we do anything further to help survivors after all that was already done for FREE?
its time we let them die as they should for once, killers deserve to win sometimes too.
Never said Killers don't deserve to win I'm just saying Killers don't need to Tunnel, Camp or Slug those are optional strategies that are allowed to use, just as of late Killers have been overly using the tunnel strategy which made me quit Survivor and go to Killer.
And what do you mean for once? Killers have the chance to win it's just for whatever reason you want the game to end as quickly as possible which makes no sense to me.
Also what would be the point on playing Survivor if they don't have the chance to win? Why wouldn't they switch to killer.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447335#Comment_3447335
No you don't need it every game but it should be reasonably achievable. I never said you should get it every single game. Currently it's not reasonable. Maybe if you're playing a cracked Nurse, but for the vast majority of the killer cast no.
Doing these changes alone won't stop tunneling, but these changes are needed to make not tunneling consistently viable, and to allow the space for an anti-tunnel system/mechanic to be introduced.
Preferably both happen at the same time, not tunneling becomes viable and anti-tunnel gets introduced.
Killers get kills when they've earned it, survivors get Escape when they've earned it I feel like both are within reach for the average player.
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@Spectralfx said:
Currently,
Map design favors survivors way too hard to let most killer have a realistic chance at winning via 12 hooks stages and dedication to chases.
Survivors can complain all they want about 3 gens, slugging, camping and insta-down...
It's not goig anywhere.
The more those strats gets nerfed, the more aggressive killers will be in applying said strategies... its a feedback loop.
They need to rollback all the "freebies" they gave survivors, then and only then... would killer feel like it's worth playing in a more relaxed way.
I disagree, it'll make those strategies easier the whole point of those "freebies" was to attempt to stop killers from abusing those strategies.
You can't stop people from playing certain ways unless it's against the rules or less rewarding.
The worst part is both sides have people who are always waiting for the next Nerf.
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@Green_Sliche said:
So it appears there's this idea that killers should not tryhard and aim for victory too much, be it tunneling, camping, proxy camping, slugging or whatever else killer can do because it's not fun for survivors. Meanwhile it's ok to go full elite special ops with best items and most reliable perk loadout, repair gens as soon as possible, even if that means there will be 0 interaction with killer and 0 altruism points earned.
I think MrPenguin pretty much described what I wanted to say so I'll just sum it up with this - you can't take something out without giving something of equal value in exchange. So unless there's a suggestion about how to reward killer for going for different survivors ( like make basekit Grim Embrace and make it work twice ) then this talk is nothing but DS defending and will lead to nowhere new.
Killers have their ability, add-ons and 4 different perks of their choosing, there are also gen regressing perks you can choose from, Aura reading perks and add-ons, there are also perks that expose survivors so that there a one hit instead of two And Killers know exactly where all of the gens are because it's highlighted in Red for you.
Gen rushing is only a problem when you're going against a 4 man SWF not a 4 man team of randoms, since a SWF can communicate and agree to bring in certain perks to help the team, you can't really do that with randoms they're less likely to coordinate perks like that especially with the one minute timer you have before the game starts.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446860#Comment_3446860
Well you can't have your cake and eat it too. Survivors need to understand that they are wanting the game to take longer so their objective will take longer. 90 seconds isn't enough time with how many hooks a killer would currently need.
If you don't want to slow down survivors you need to speed up killers.
So the number of hooks survivors have available would need to go down or the amount of gen time they have to do would need to go up.
You can also introduce more objectives for the survivor.
You need to do something to equal an entire survivor being left alive instead of taken out early.
With that we can also address tunneling in some way. Both should happen at the same time, making non tunneling more viable and adding in an anti-tunnel system.
Correctly need? You don't need a 3K or 4K every single game, I'm not saying you shouldn't strive for that but understand that can't have your cake and eat it too goes both ways, especially considering I never said that I assume to "Correctly" win every game as Survivor nor should anyone else.
More objectives for survivors is what I was saying before, but again that doesn't mean it's going to stop tunneling you're assuming that's a playstyle that can be stopped with more time given to Killers it's not you can't stop people from playing certain ways unless it's against the rules or less rewarding.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446824#Comment_3446824
Its not about whether I agree or not, its the devs game and they decide what's the win condition.
Having it changed, sure, but that's not the discussion that was taking place. I think the game would be better with a different win condition like hooks, but that means gen speeds need to be balanced around whatever hook count gets decided as a "win".
Sorry, I wasn't saying survivor speeds should go down because a chase is taking too long. They should go down if we want tunneling to cease, so that its reasonable for the killer to win. I don't think its reasonable to only be able to win because the survivors greatly messed up or you outclass them so much that it doesn't matter that they were playing tryhard by focusing gens and you weren't.
It is about tunneling. As is, killer speeds and survivor speeds are only kept somewhat in check because of focusing on both sides. If you take only one side out, the balance gets skewed heavily. So, in order to facilitate the speed at which killers complete their objective without tunneling, gen speeds would also need to go down.
Whether by community sentiment or an actual systematic change.
There are killers who don't tunnel, I don't see why survivors can't do the same with their objective and slow it down to facilitate those players more.
Again, if its abuse to focus your objective than that needs to be true for both sides. Its not a problem with survivors doing gens and escaping, its how they do it.
I don't care which as long as its consistent for both sides.
That's fair, though if you only consider a 3K as a win you're setting yourself up to be disappointed from time to time that goes both ways.
I'd actually prefer if killer wins could be based off hooks not kills, I also agree that gen's should be balanced around that if only that could be the case.
Except gen's already take 90 seconds, gen rushing is only a problem (for some) cuz there's nothing else survivors have to do to escape, since that's the main goal for survivors, if there were other things survivors had to do in order to be allowed to escape Killers would have more time.
Adjusting speed to make things like gen's, healing and movement would only stall out the game in a way some people don't want.
This being said this doesn't mean any of it is going to stop tunneling, that's why I lean heavily on it being considered abuse it should be reportable, or less rewarding. (In my opinion)
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446805#Comment_3446805
It's 3K and 3E (escapes) because that's what the devs defined as a win when they introduced MMR as stated in their dev stream at the time and as datamined from the game itself.
For the killer to win they need 3 kills. It doesn't matter how or how many hooks, all the game cares about is "did they die or not?". For survivor its a little different. The team as a whole wins with 3 escapes, however the individual survivor only wins if they escape.
Hatch counts as neutral, its neither a kill or an escape and just voids out the survivor from consideration essentially.
The system could be better, but that's the current one.
Killers shouldn't complain about survivors playing efficiently if they are also playing efficiently.
Not tunneling and not focusing one gen does not mean waiting until the other side catches up. It's just doing thing in a way that allows for the other side to be on equal playing ground if they are also not focusing down their objective.
So in your example, the other survivors should theoretically be spreading out their gen progress doing totems and w.e. but the killer can still lose if they get outplayed.
It's the same way that sometimes a killer can win by spreading hooks if the survivor team does poorly enough or if the killer just really outclasses them.
If anything the survivors slowing down should help with the looping complaints as killers would have more time to actually deal with how strong maps are for survivors.
If you're going to say its fine because survivors want "as many out" as possible, then you need to be ok with killers doing the same to get as many kills as possible. Otherwise it's hypocrisy.
Its the same as survivors spawning in and completing a gen right away and focusing gens all game.
In the current system its not abuse, its been okayed by the devs as something non-reportable. If it was abuse, it would be reportable.
If you personally don't like it then that's understandable, but that's not the same as it being abuse and that it shouldn't be allowed.
Do you always agree with everything the devs say or do about this game? Personally there are updates I don't agree with (but of course it's not the end of the world) which is why I play killer now not survivor.
In my opinion each individual player makes up what is considered a win if that's a 1K, 2K, 3K or 4K for you that's fine you don't have to agree with what the developers say about what's considered a win for either side. Just don't expect to win every single game.
I agree the system is weird.
Map reworks are a completely different discussion, but I will agree there are some maps that I don't like when I play killer. (But still a different can of worms)
Survivors speed shouldn't have to slow down because you're spending too much time in one chase, that being said this discussion isn't about speed it's about tunneling.
Again I never said I have a problem with Killers getting kills it's how they're getting them, of course the devs are going to approve tunneling it's a optional play style you don't have to play that way you want to, when most killers tunnel at the start of the game and so on that should be considered abusing a playstyle.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446793#Comment_3446793
Same on the survivor side with gens. Its optional if they focus down gens or not.
They can do totems, chest, or help their teammates by healing or taking hits. They can do gens partially then find a fresh one. They don't need to just run around doing nothing.
@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446789#Comment_3446789
Not blocking the hook, "body blocking" as in getting in the killers way in an attempt to make them hit you to give your teammate time. Like body blocking with BT, you're taking the hit for your teammate.
Sure that's why I said max. In the game survivors are preaching for, a killer would not have "won" until around 10 hooks, since that's a 3k and a 3k is a win. That's just 2 off from 12.
Tunneling a survivor is not disabling them from playing the game, they're still playing. They're doing chases, they're looping, they're dropping pallets ect. They are playing the game.
Killers whole point is to get survivors out the game. If that's not what you want you shouldn't be playing DBD.
Yeah you are defending double standards.
Tunneling is not an objective, neither is focusing gens. You don't need to focus 1 survivor to eventually get a kill the same way you don't need to focus 1 gen to eventually get 1 done.
Gens are the objective, not focusing gens.
Kills are the objective, not focusing (tunneling) kills.
Saying survivors can focus gens but killers can't focus their objective is a double standard. So to reword your phrase to not defend double standards:
Focusing down kills is not the objective, neither is focusing gens.
Gens are the objective, and so are kills.
Killers shouldn't focus down kills, and survivors shouldn't focus down gens.
or
Survivors can focus down gens, so killers can focus down kills.
Gotcha I was confused so in that case run Starstruck, or agitation or iron grasp I believe it's what it's called?
3k every game? and why 3k?
When I did play Survivor I didn't need to get a 3 out to consider that a win, I mean sure be nice if I could get my randoms out and all.
Well ok you can see it that way, that Survivor gets god tier at looping why do killers get to complain about gen rushing if they're focusing down one Survivor who happens to be good at looping? What is the rest of the team / randoms supposed to do while you're focusing down one survivor?
Stand around and wait their turn? No they're going to do gen's because they want to open the exit gates and get an as many survivors out.
I don't have a problem with the Killers objective to get kills I have a problem with them abusing a certain play style by using it every single match at the start of the game.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446784#Comment_3446784
I don't think getting put into your appropriate skill bracket is a "punishment". You might not be in your comfort zone but that's the point, your games should be more balanced not comfortable and easy.
If the MMR is working well at least (which its not).
However yeah if you're going to play the most efficient way then you shouldn't be complaining about the other team doing the same. Similarly if survivors are going to focus down gens they shouldn't be complaining about killers focusing down kills.
Tunneling is an optional play style Killers don't need to they want to.
Survivors need to do gen's if they don't then they're just running around until 3 Survivors die and one might get the hatch.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446575#Comment_3446575
Once a gen is done the killer has a mark that can't be undone.
time on a gen = time in chase. The time this take can be extended by either side.
Survivors have plenty of second chance and chase extending perks they can use just like killer regression. Base kit killers have kicks and survivors have looping, pallets, windows, and can heal if they escape chase. Plus survivors can also prevent a hook via body blocking, going to a hook dead zone, as well as perks like Sabo, Boil Over, and ect.
Getting a hook = completing a gen. This can't be undone by either side.
The survivors also only have to get 5 + gates as opposed to the killers max of 12.
If not being able to go 0% to 100% would be ridiculous, than killers should be allowed to tunnel and get their kill complete.
You're still defending double standards, thus preventing actual solutions from being discussed.
The two objectives are perfectly comparable if you actually understand how they relate to each other.
Also a gen is only 90 secs if you don't hit any great skill checks or have anything to speed it up. Most players can hit at least a few greats per gen, even if not intentionally.
I thought the devs did a patch where survivors couldn't directly block the hook?
12 hooks total, three hooks per Survivor, Killers Don't Need all 12 hooks unless they are a tryhard who needs a 4Ks every game.
(Just like tryhard survivors need an escape every single game but that's beside the point)
Tunneling a player at the start of a game is disabling them from actually playing the game why would anyone want to play Survivor at that point when killer is clearly the best role considering they get to be in the match for its entirety where survivors are only in it until they are eliminated or escape.
And I'm not defending double standards tunneling is not an objective doing gen's is.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445917#Comment_3445917
So when killer does and should switch it's target after unhook, why survivors don't switch their generators after doing like 25 or 50% of the progress? Just so you know 1 hook is 33.3% of objective progress regarding one particular target and there are 4 of them in the game. So who is progressing faster - survivors who sit on gens or killer in terms of percentage by playing ''fairly''?
Considering gens take 90 seconds each, not being able to complete them from 0% to 100% would be a ridiculous mechanic, Killers have plenty of gen regression perks they could use to give them more time (like Hex Ruin for one). Also it's a part of the killers job to scare survivors off the gens.
After you hook for Survivor that Survivor is marked with a hook for the whole rest of the game you hook them again they have a second hook and third hook they're out of the game, sure a Survivor can get a gen to 50% and then leave after being scared off or whatever but the killer can kick the generator or use a different gen regressing perk to lower the progress of that gen no matter the progress is, therefore the two objectives are not comparable.
@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445917#Comment_3445917
Tunneling it's just one option of contributing to the survivors objective as in they have other options like after working on a gen for a bit they can go after another gen instead of going after the one that just got worked on.
Both sides either can or can't do their objective optimally, not just one side. Otherwise you're upholding double standards.
If killers are "abusing" focusing kills to 100% so are survivors with focusing gens to 100%.
Killers main objective is to get kills, so if you want them to stop their kills partway survivors need to do the same with their objective.
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@MerleDixon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422146#Comment_3422146
Because being able to tell your teammates where the killer is and give callouts takes away a ton of the killers strength. It would be less of an issue if survivors didn't have strong perks as is
Just cuz survivors have Perks doesn't mean they always get value out of them, have you tried using CoH against a M2 plague?
Or Distortion against a killer who has no Aura perks or add-ons? Or Deliverance but you get hooked first.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445873#Comment_3445873
Why tunneling is an unsportsmanlike playstyle when it directly contributes to killer's objective which is to kill all survivors? I don't see anyone saying that genrush is unsportsmanlike playstyle even though it is the main objective of survivors. So it's ok for survivors to try to win asap but not ok for a killer?
Tunneling it's just one option of contributing to The Killers objective as in they have other options like after hooking a Survivor they can go after someone else instead of going after the one who just got unhooked.
I can't remember if it was this thread or a different one but I did say that I would be on the Killer's side about this if they weren't abusing the tunneling option every single game.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445271#Comment_3445271
Genrushing is also an optional play style for survivors, as of late survivors are abusing that option massively.
They can entertain killers by triggering multiple chases, getting downed, rescue each other and so on. Instead, they just get glued to nearest generator and hope someone else does the distraction or killer doesn't find them and does waste more time.
Considering every chase can be extended to 1 minute or more, survivors can heal each other for endless amount of time and bleedout timer is very generous, there's no reason for survivors to try to end the match as quickly as possible.
Does it all sound right for you? Because that's how your statement does sound to me at least about how killers could play.
Those two play styles are not comparable because doing the main objective is different than specifically targeting one person out of the game
Tunneling is an unsportsmanlike playstyle that disables a player to actually play the game.
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@roundpitt said:
Using this absurd logic, why aren’t survivors punished for completing gens all the way from 0% to 100% without giving the killer a chance to hook them?
Tunneling is an optional play style that killers have, as of late killers are abusing that option.
If survivors didn't do gens then they're just running around waiting to get hooked, what would be the point of playing Survivor?
Considering gens take 90 seconds each, not being able to complete them from 0% to 100% would be a ridiculous mechanic, Killers have plenty of gen regression perks they could use to give them more time.
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443950#Comment_3443950
You act like every random Survivor works like a team that's not the case, when I played Survivor most of my randoms did nothing to "carry me" or my mistakes
Not because they were bad at the game but because killers add pressure to do the objective faster by tunneling a Survivor out of the game right off the bat.
@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444267#Comment_3444267
Have you ever considered the fact that maybe your team mates were actually weak and couldn't loop killer long enough? Or maybe they didn't do the objectives efficiently?
You should not put a blame on killer if your team mates perform poor for whatever reason.
Actually you failed to acknowledge that I did say my teammates would do the objective it's just the killer added extra pressure by tunneling a Survivor out of the game right at the start it's hard to get five gens done with only 3 survivors that's probably why the game starts with 4 survivors
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444267#Comment_3444267
Have you ever considered the fact that maybe your team mates were actually weak and couldn't loop killer long enough? Or maybe they didn't do the objectives efficiently?
You should not put a blame on killer if your team mates perform poor for whatever reason.
Right cuz every game I've played this year as Survivor most of my randoms were just weak, it's always just a skill issue.
I've had this game since 2020 and my games have never been this bad before.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443677#Comment_3443677
Do killers complain that survivors are doing their objectives in general? No. Killers complain that they keep getting their tools taken away from them so it becomes more difficult to compete against survivors.
Nobody wants easy game. People want a fair game where mistakes aren't that punishing and there's always comeback potential for both sides. The problem here is killer is alone and needs to use all options available where survivors are 4 and they all share the same objective and can play lax at times. If one survivor does mess up somewhere, 3 others can carry the game but if killer does mess up, no help is coming. Killers do tunnel because it's a form of pressure that often works and time-wise is the most effective way to keep up with gen progression rate that currently exists ( 1 or 2 gens per 1 hook ).
You act like every random Survivor works like a team that's not the case, when I played Survivor most of my randoms did nothing to "carry me" or my mistakes
Not because they were bad at the game but because killers add pressure to do the objective faster by tunneling a Survivor out of the game right off the bat.
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@Steakdabait said:
turns out playing something fresh and new will always been more fun than playing an 8 year old game that you already have 1000s of hours in
Dbd was released in 2016
Fair.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443708#Comment_3443708
I was talking about comparing the two games to Fortnite.
@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443566#Comment_3443566
Really this post is to everyone who said TCM is fun because it's new, look at how Fortnite is doing.
For the record I never compared dead by daylight to fortnite.
@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443686#Comment_3443686
All I was trying to say is just cuz the game is new doesn't mean it won't stand the test of time doesn't mean it will either.
This is the point I was trying to make in my original post.
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Dead by daylight didn't start off with all of these amazing characters, maps Etc it took the devs time to come up with these ideas and then make them and put them in the game.
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@Lost_Boy said:
It will probably suffer the same fate as Evil Dead. That game was really fun in the beginning and then it got rather boring doing the same old thing over and over. TCM looks kinda fun, but I don't think it has the longevity of a game like DBD.
DBD is unique because there's such a huge variety of maps, perks & playable characters. I pretty much main killer and I feel like every match is unique in one way or another.
Problem with games like TCM is they're pretty limited on how much they can add content wise.
"TCM is limited content wise"
The same could be said about dead by daylight in the early days.
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@CorvusCorax86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/377541/been-playing-the-game-for-5-years
Is it 5 years without a break?
Can I get more info? Total number of hours played / achievement you got (maybe all maybe not) / are you a surv or killer main / your fav killer etc.
I'm interested.
No, not because I will last for this long. I already stopped for a year and I'm planning to do that once more when the last challenge page opens and I complete it.
Playing one game for 5 years almost daily is actually impressive that just proved that this game was very fun to the original poster.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443682#Comment_3443682
You're comparing apples to oranges now.
TTCM & DBD are not comparable to Fortnite.
Also, Fortnite has the backing of a very large corporation that has ties with other large companies through licenses. Their devs also switch up the game mechanics very often. There isn't much that the devs for Dbd, nor (especially)TTCM can do when it comes to vary the game play and keep it interesting for the long term.
I wish them the best, and maybe they're be a long lasting niche, but they won't make a dent in Dbd.
You realize you're in a thread that's comparing one game to another right?
Dbd has done a lot that made it fun, new and interesting, TCM is also capable of doing the same in its own way, we just have to wait and see what happens with both games.
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@The_Horde said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442984#Comment_3442984
Hey, I'm not the grief police, you can grieve whatever you want. It's just weird to share your opinion and then say you're not interested in other's opinions. If you're that miserable take a break. Playing something daily for 5 years is enough to make anyone miserable regardless of the game. Games are fun, and if you have burnout from a game then a break is definitely warranted.
What game are you playing? Dbd has had some serious balancing issues throughout 2023, playing killer is so incredibly boring because of how ez it is to get a 4k.
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@HugTheHag said:
Do a string of friendly games. Be active enough to not be reported as plain afk-ing, but don't kill anyone.
That should bring you back to an mmr you can have fun at.
Whenever there's a recent nerf to one side or the other (in this case, nerf to regression + HUD I would guess), mmr has to reevaluate where you belong under those new circonstances. It's normal that you would have a time needed to adapt.
If your objective is just to have fun and not to win, you will for sure eventually find a spot in mmr where you can.
I've been playing very relaxed for a while, giving hatch and sometimes having full on friendly games (which I happen to enjoy), and my mmr is staying at a level where games are very manageable for me if I give a little effort, generally as Legion, Hag, Ghostface and sometimes Nemesis.
I do the same
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443682#Comment_3443682
Not every game reaches Fortnite level. Fun fact, Fortnite's original game mode failed and was taken over by the Battle Royale mode that was only added, because it was the trend at the time.
It's likely TCM will kill DBD, although TCM itself could carve out it's own niche and live on. It's impossible to know at this point, because the game is new.
All I was trying to say is just cuz the game is new doesn't mean it won't stand the test of time doesn't mean it will either.
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@Huge_Bush said:
Lol. It’s only fun now because it’s new and different. Once the “scariness” wears off it will die. There’s not much the Victims can do, unlike Dbd where you at least have the chase with optional stealth.
Not bashing TTCM at all though, it’s just not going to make much of, if any, a dent in Dbd. It’ll be a nice side game for when you’ve gotten tunneled/bullied one too many times and need a break.
Really this post is to everyone who said TCM is fun because it's new, look at how Fortnite is doing.