Gwinty
Gwinty
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Nurse. I think Nurse is unbalanced, when you combine her with perks who afflict the exposed status effect.
Most other "unbalanced" things come down to context: Eruption is unbalanced for SoloQ player, Tombstone piece is unbalanced for anybody who never saw the Myers, camping is unbalanced when Bubba does it, Eary of Crows is unbalanced for Trapper, Garden of Joys mainbuilding is unbalanced for and M1 Killer...
I think the term is used quiet broadly. However there are things that are too strong/too weak and as such nerfing and buffing is always a thing for a game that constantly evolves and adds new content. That is the nature of the game and nothing to rage about, however we should point out things we perceive as such to maybe get the devs attention or check or bias.
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I do not think this would be a good idea. A cooldown on the Boon perk would be more appropriate.
And let us be fair: Most Boons do not even see play. The only one bothering us is Cycle of Healing. Or when was the last time that you saw a "Boon: Dark Theory"?
Personally I would buff and nerf Boons at the same time: Give them a cooldown but change the radius of certain Boons. Shadowstep and Cycle can stay, Exponential and Dark Theory should get an increase.
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Slinger is not that bad. He is just not in a good spot right now.
For me he feels fine and I enjoy a round of Slinger every now and then. However I never play him "to win", I more or less play him for some stupid builds that bring me joy: Trail of Torments or Insidious for gen-camping, Rancor/Nemesis/Leathal for Rancor-Roulette and so on.
A friend of mine who played him before his changes says he feels awful now without his quickscope. As I did not have him back than and can not compare I do not know if that is true.
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@C3Tooth said:
Selfcare nerf
Botany nerf
Pharmacy nerf
Sloppy render Solidarity, Resurgence, Reactive healing useless
BP being too easy to earn
Item/addon are much cheaper
There is no reason for survivor not to bring at least a Brown Medkit / Toolbox every match.
Item/addon on survivor is unbalance due to the existence between 0 item team vs 4 Ranger/charge/syringe addon team.
Not to mention that survivors just have 2 good items to start with: Healing and repair speed. Flashlights are mostly a meme and not that useful when you go by pure effectiveness. Keys and maps are useless and as such survivors are pushed towards medkids.
However...Botany was not nerfed, for me that was a buff...I am still milking that perk hard after the increase of healing speed on others to counter sloppy butcher and pick up people from the ground. The 50% increase is quit good.
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284289#Comment_3284289
Correct! Thats why i think the game should be balanced purely around actual hooks. Not kills, not hook states, just hooks.
The problem is that I as a Killer have little influence over the hooks once I put somebody on it. I can not unhook the survivor myself and if the other 3 put gens before friends or mess up I am stuck with a single hook even if I play fair.
Also if survivors all take the same character and skin I have much trouble to play fair. There is no way for me to tell who has been hooked twice and who has been hooked once.
And finally: If a single survivors hides all match and never takes my heat, I am stuck with hooking his three friends and then only score a single hook on them in the end.
Killers are quit limited in managing hooks...
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I think my favourite szenario for this is the following:
I hook survivor A and leave because BBQ showed me the next target, I am a happy little Bubba. On my way to the people on my BBQ I encounter survivor B who wanted to go for the rescue asap. As such I adjust my course and chase B, down B and hook B. Then BBQ triggers again and shows me two people running for the still hooked survivor A...
You can guess how this plays out...
Now by the "survivor rulebook" I was a bad, bad camping tryhard noob Killer who has 0 skill.
Survivors however sometimes just make camping or intercepting the rescue so much more attractive. Even while not tunneling or camping I will make an optimal play. Just think about the usual szenario where a single person is on the hook and the gates are open...
Now, I dislike hardcore facecamping at 5 generators as much as everybody. This is no skill, however there are enough situations where camping is the correct play and not bad. Same with tunneling: We all know the cheeky bastards who try to bodyblock with Borrow Time and then complain (or even DC) when you chase them.
However...is there even an issue?
Tryhard Killers who play facecamp simulator at 5 generators or tunnel will go up the ladder until they face top survivors who punish them and make fun of them. Chill Killers who get their 2:2 will be further down and face chill survivors and bad Killers who only get 1 will face bad survivors who use Self-care...seems like a good system.
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The problem is that there is little to no other way to get value out of condemn.
And if I want a teleporting Killer I can just take Freddy.
As such I am all in for a nerf to the slug+condemn strat when they buff her regular condemn as well as her TVs a bit. I mean, come on: If I turn off a TV it is 60 seconds, but if Onryo teleports it is 100? That just seems wrong...
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I am quit happy with the last few chapters.
Dredge and Mastermind, as well as their survivors and the perks were good. I especially enjoy Dredge with his mobility and as an opponent, while Wesker is just iconic and cool to have.
The sound design, the music, the animation are all dope. Even Onryo was well done from that point and is just a bit on the weaker side as a Killer.
Tombs are fine, the events this year are fun to play and reward tons of cosmetics and the free Rift for this tomb is nice as well (Artists skin is pretty neat).
The Knight is actually a great concept and was very ambicious. Maybe a bit rushed in the execution and he should have been on the PTB for longer and receive more fixes but bugs are supposed to happen when you create such a Killer.
Also notice how the issues are with coding and not with the other departments?
As such I think that there is quit some love put into these things. Most of them feel good and people are always complaining about the bad things, while neglecting the good stuff.
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Hopefully they will buff the patrol setting and area control and nerf the "drop guard at the loop, lol"-playstyle. Knights area denial and patrols are quit nice, especially with the banner mechanic and I like them.
I think the best idea for that would be longer patrol times (with a callback option), faster creation of long paths and something to prevent his "tapping the power", like buffer.
His concept overall is cool and very ambicious.
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For me this is not true.
Chasing is fun, sure, but hiding and evading is also fun an quit interactive. Nothing like moving carefully around the map, probably 5m from the Killer without getting caught. That get me going.
The problem comes when the Killer has little to no interaction with you or you have no way to react to it. Survivors want to do something other than holding M1 at a generator, be that chasing, hiding or disarming the Killers power in a meaningful way.
I for one enjoy Dredge as an opponent. You have quit some options when facing him and it is fun. Running into his Remnant when he tries to bamboozle a teammate to make him end up on the wrong side of the loop? Best feeling.
Knight would have been such a cool concept for this: Create patrols around generators, Guard pressure survivors off them and distract them and you as a Killer have to macro the entire map while chasing as M1 Claymore Guy. Survivors could choose to trigger the guard and get the banner, the Knight could set up trapping situations via patrols and plan ahead (especially with Tinkerer or Trail of Torments). Would have been fun. However his power right now is quit boring: Drop the guard in the loop, lol.
Long story short: It is interaction that is fun. However fun is subjective and people enjoy different interactions (not just looping).
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@Sel said:
I can't say I care much about her being abandoned as she has - primarily because the obnoxious things on twitter have really turned me against the whole cause. - But I do think it's sad to see them neglect and misuse things relating to the lore they've been building alongside the game. Haddie is one of those things, at this point I think it's impossible to fix without a complete overhaul of the character we got vs what we read about. I'm sure they will add a skin to appease the Twitter folk eventually though, don't give up too much hope..
Also, fun fact.. I remember long ago now I used to hate that Feng didn't get many cosmetics compared to Nea and Meg, who were getting them almost every cosmetic cycle, and now look at her. Never say never, even if it looks unlikely.
What happened at twitter regarding Haddie?
Sorry, I live under a rock when it comes things on that platform...
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I do not like it because it adds very little to the chase with a Killer.
I do understand why some players are using it however I think it is boring to use and I do not use it myself. The problem with stacking regression is that it is too much of the same type of perk.
Also most regression perks punish solo-q player. Eruption and PainRes/Deadmans are notorious to be less effective against people on comps. Just let go of the generator at the right moment and you only get a bit of regression, fail to do so and you eat incapacitation or a locked generator on top of it.
However stacking regression allows for the skill floor of Killers to get lower. You need less skill during chases, with your power and regarding mind-games when you can just stack them. This makes Killers more accessible.
The problem is that there is little reward to let go of this crutch. Most other perks can not keep up with the simple solution of using just another regression perk. Think about it: You run Eruption, Pain Res, Deadmans and No way out. What perk is supposed to give you that much value, even if you are good enough to only use Eruption?
As such yes, I dislike stacked regression. I have always disliked it starting with Ruin/Pop as a combination. I think there should be an incentive to leave it at one or two regression perks.
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The issue is that survivors will always complain about either
a) a Killers anti-loop power (just hold shift+w aka "chase with M1 is the only thing fun, this is too oppressive")
b) a Killers mobility (aka "hit and run is boring")
c) a Killers zoning potential (aka "three gening is boring")
A reverse version of this is true for Killers by the way.
However you see a clear bias here: Those players who do not complain will not voice their opinions. Look at this forum and compare the number of "I like play against xyz" (not ironically) with "xyz is boring/op".
People who just enjoy a thing will rarely speak up in any way. They have no reason too.
I currently play a lot of survivor. Just because my schedule aligns with theirs. However I usually play a bit more Killers. I mostly get chilled matches because I play like that unless you try hard you will rarely get tryhards as opponents (unless you play peak time at a weekend), MMR does that pretty well.
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I like the look of the new map. It reminds me a lot of Caelid from Elden Ring a region I love and hate at the same time for its cool aesthetics and enemies. The place is literally hell but pretty cool. It also brings back memories from Diablo (part 1) for me for some reason.
Aside from the abundance of pallets the Shattered Square is pretty neat: Many cool details, some interesting tiles and a "bright yet frightening" aesthetic.
Just that the current number of pallets is pretty frustrating when you play an M1 killer. Especially when you have 3 boring short loops with no mind-game potential back to back.
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Honestly I hate nothing more than this...
Like, you leave them on the hook for one second too much for their liking and they DC or kill themself. All the while I was just doing a generator and waited for the Killer to start another chase so that I can unhook them safely or apply Reassurance if needed.
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Demogorgon or Dredge come to mind. Both have a mixed bag: Map presence, chasing power and information. However Oni and Mastermind are also close, interesting chase power with enough skill and depth to make them interesting. Weskers vaulting ability and instant pick-up are just so good to make loops interesting...
Personally I would nominate Demogorgon. Simple yet effective.
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The problem is that this would be boring.
I do not want to play only on maps similar sizes and with less rng. For me the option to get bigger or smaller maps as well as the RNG option adds some spice to the game.
When I played League of Legends the fact that you only had one map with one objective was a chore for me. I switched to Heroes of the Storm because of this where you can play different maps with different objectives.
The problem is that the maps do not add to the same depth to the game or shake up the Killers in the same way. A good thing about Heroes was that you had "map tier lists" where certain picks were much more valuable on certain maps while others lost their power.
Nothing however would be more atrocious than finding the same tiles on all maps. I like the fact that RPD and Haddonfield now offer different tiles from say Auto Heaven. I wish they would add more of these "map specific" tiles.
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@Little_Kitten said:
If main Wraith could answer this question:
why are almost all of you using NOED on this killer? ... 🤔
I do not get it but I can tell you why I use NoeD: When I play Death Slinger survivors loose respect during the endgame and think they can just tbag at the gate. I hate it when my teammates do that as a survivor and as such when I play Killer I take NoeD to abuse that.
Over the time I shifted to Rancor to play "Rancor Roulette" however. With "Nemesis" this makes for a very funny experience when a survivor stuns me and then gets pulled out of the gate.
On other occasions I use this with "Endgame Freddy": NoeD, No way out, Remember Me, Bloodwarden. I play fair, stack my No Way out full, stack my Remember me and then go wild during the endgame.
Maybe it is the same for those Wraiths?
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Smash Hit + Parental Guidance...I love it.
Honestly that Ghostface is a joke. Pallets should not be that much of an issue to him when he plays stealthy.
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Wraith is just a good basic Killer.
He has a bit of everything and he is free: Good add-ons, nice mobility, stealth and even a bit of a chasing power. Also you can combine him with perks very easy: Safe the Best for Last, Jolt, Sloppy, A Nurses Calling...
Also Wraith can make many archive quests easy: Breaking pallets / walls with his add-ons, hitting out of stealth with his add-ons, chase survivors, close hatch...you name it.
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I have no problems with that. Just another reason to play Lightborn and laugh at survivors when they try to blind me or to use Starstruck and enjoy the salt when you chain your downs because somebody wanted to flashy safe...Killers will adapt and with locker blinds removed I have no issue. You have to be aware of your surroundings.
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I am honestly confused what some people want from a new Killer.
If the Killer has a chasing oriented power they dislike it because "you can just hold shift+w" and if the Killer has a zoning oriented power they hate it because "no looping = no fun" / "boring".
While I agree that the "tapping the power" style of the Knight is not a good way, I enjoy his zoning style and to outsmart the patrols. Then again stealthy gameplay is also fun for me and hiding from the Killer to wast its time and outsmarting them makes my day.
Saying that looping is the only "fun" part of the game is just too short sighted.
I get that people have subjective feeling but just saying "this style of Killer is no fun" is ignoring the fact that you have more than just looping in this game.
From the other perspective: Buffing the patrols and nerfing the "tap power to trap loop" style would be great. I like the idea of a Killer commanding his minions to establish map control as it is very ambitious. BHVR goes into a good direction here.
I hope they encourage this more.
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I was a fun event and I think they nailed it.
The side objective was interesting and doable for both sides, the aesthetics were good and the side effect (speed boost) was also quit fun to use. Also the event tome gave some nice bonus fragments and good skins.
BHVR nailed it here. Good event, 10/10 would deposite energy again.
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For Killers: Whispers.
I need information on my Killer and if I had to take only one info-perk it would still be Whispers. Nothing can hide you from it and with a bit of practice you are able to work out locations quit well.
For Survivor: Kindred (SoloQ), Botany Knowledge (Duo or more)
Kindred is a given. More information and coordination is very important.
Botany Knowledge is one of my favorite perks because the fast healing is useful in 29/30 times (the other is Plague). You heal much faster when patching up others and you can also pick up faster. Most times I get some good value out of this perk. Patching up other players also helps to motivate them as I noticed that people kill themself more often when you want to do just generators. As such Botany increased my escape rate quit a lot...
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I honestly do not think it is pay to win.
Play to win is a concept that is very much a given in any game. I played free only for the most time and only bought perks from the shrine and I was doing fine.
The best survivor perks are on the free survivors: Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Borrow Time and UnbreakaBill. Also there are now many "free" perks that are pretty good too: Kindred, Spine Chill and We`ll make it.
Sure it takes some grind, but especially after the latest changes this was reduced by a ton. Shards are coming with every level up and through events too. As such you are able to fill your purse quit quickly by playing and waiting for a good shrine or to buy a new survivor.
The "best" survivor perks are also on free survivors right now: Off the Record comes with Zarina, Deliverance comes with Adam, Lithe comes with Ming and Boon: Cycle of Healing comes with Michaela. Looking back I would probably buy Michaela first to add Cycle to my arsenal for a perfectly fine build: Sprint Burst, Cycle of Healing, Kindred and Borrow Time.
For Killers it hits a bit different. There are some strong perks locked on licensed Killers (Call of Brine, Deadlock and more). However the strongest Killer is for free (Nurse), the best beginner Killer also (Wraith) and another dope Killer with Huntress is also included.
On perks you can get some descent from the free perks: Hex: No one escapes Death, Jolt, Sloppy Butcher and Whispers. If you level the base Killers there are also the three Hillbilly perks for you (Tinkerer, Enduring, Lightborn), you can get A Nurse's Call for free and Brutal Strengh is very good at the beginning too.
You would not be able to build that strong of a Killer build early thou. However for Wraith Jolt, A Nurses, Sloppy Butcher and Whispers is quit okay.
Also there are many events when the Shrine rotates more and offers good perks on regular bases. You can save for those events and then spend you shards when they count.
For me DbD hits a good balance of free content and pay content.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Killers got basekit (to an extent):
- Brutal Strength
- STBFL
- An additional 50 seconds
- and mini PGTW.
Oh they also got a 60% kill rate!
Just because one side receives a change doesn't mean the other needs and equal and opposite one, if that were the case the game balance would never change.
This.
I play mostly Killer and I do not see a reason to get another buff. All that this does is to prevent a tactic that I do not use that often or that I can circumvent with relative ease.
First in line for another baseline buff are SoloQ survivors. They need some form of information. Maybe via a mechanic that at least shows them when somebody is in chase like we have it with the Obsession so that they can make more educated decisions.
Killer as a role is in a fine position after the last patch and only certain Killers (Onryo, Trapper, Pig...) could use a bit of tweaking.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237506#Comment_3237506
CoH is very time consuming. I do use it now, but only because they nerfed SC. If I was able to trade deleting CoH for getting old version of SC, I would do that 100%. People don't realize all the risks involved (and there are MANY) with CoH and the fact that it is very unreliable. The only thing why killers don't like the perk is, that sometimes it can help teammates. Other times it's huge time sync + risk of moving on a map injured and sole reason why your team failed to survive.
OTR useless against real camping tunnelers because BT hit disables it. On the other hand DS is now useless - so we are in a worse situation then before.
BT basekit - yes. This one is one of real huge helps that we got. Same for reinsurance - which would not be so sorely needed if gen times didn't go to 90s (making camping hook much more rewarding).
Overall I see something done for survivor is always compensated with something horrible (OTR for DS, phramacy and calm spirit on it's own, reinsurence for 90s gens) and then some clear nerfs (0.5s DH with those inconsistent killer timing = hard usage, stun recovery (this one is my #1 nerf that hit me the most), quicker pallet breaks, shorter after hit run time (so dead zones are deadlier), repeating missing pallets on maps (e.g. temple of purgation stonehanges can now contain 0 pallets), new TERRIBLE loops being introduced (like trash window and trash pallets and several pillars is supposed to help me extend the chase? Any M1 killer can get me there within at most 10s).
And then we have map reworks. So we take strong survivor map and butcher it (headonfield and RPD) but we keep midwitch & shelter woods exactly as they were.
Sorry but the evidence is overwhelming. I am really curious when will the devs decide it's time to nerf survivor running speed because 39% (instead of 50%) is way too much.
Your evidence is quit selective and strongly depends on the time frame.
I just looked through all of the patch notes once more to get a better picture here. Killers and survivor had almost the same number of changes. We can now argue back and forth about how useful or helpful change xy was and will come to no end. On some we can agree with ease that they should be reversed (Decisive Strike back to 5 seconds, no problem).
I for one welcome the change to Dead Hard. That perk was stupid and Dead Hard for distance was so easy that even I was able to use it. Right now the perk got stronger once you learn how to handle it (speed boost) and weaker when you just spam it. I guess we need to agree to disagree on this point. I was also always more of a Sprint Burst player because the extra distance was always more useful for me.
Some of the things you say however are clearly bugs. Like the change of spawning no pallets is an issue with the game counting wrong. This is not intended and should be fixed soon (I hope).
The map reworks of the strongest survivor maps shows a bit of bias in my opinion. RPD is still very survivor sided. It has many safe pallets and strong windows, the exit gates are very far from each other and many hiding spots for survivors exist. The only thing ruining this for survivors is the chance to spawn 2 generators in the main room (an atrocity that should just be deleted).
Haddonfield is still a very strong map when you know how to use the buildings. The windows here are very good and the tall bushes allow for hiding. Some loops can be used without a pallet for a long time. The weak point of the map is a the middle where survivors are in the open, however with the ability to hide within a building or reach one even with the shorter speedboost I think Haddonfield is balanced right now. It has strong and weak points for both sides.
Midwich and Shelter Woods are killer sided. However you took effort not to mention Garden of Joy, Badham, Red Forest, Cowshed (THE reworked Cowshed) and Aery of Crows. Aery and Garden are especially relevant because they are some of the newer maps and they are quit survivor sided.
Garden of Joy offer many very strong windows and generous generators for survivors. The main building is very good and can be used almost to an infinite without even using the pallet. Exit gates are fare from each other and generators rarely create a three gen.
Aery of Crows offers a big and bright map where you can see the Killer from far away. The main building is strong and offers good windows on the bottom, a strong pallet on top and even a good window on top. There are plenty of safe loops and the generators are very spread out. This map also is quit survivor sided.
For me the evidence points towards the view that both sides get their cookies. Right now it would be the survivors time go get another one which is why I point towards survivor buffs aimed at SoloQ.
You are however painting this a bit to grime. I think a big part of the issue is communication which is where changes should be made. Many of my survivor games are not lost because of bad perks or bad maps but because of bad coordination (2 people running for Cenobites box etc.) or because survivors make stupid moves (grouping up against Legion, setting up Cycle of Healing against Plague etc.) or because they are just bad (letting me die on the first hook with Kindred + Open Handed against a Doctor that was clearly chasing on the other side of the map).
@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237506#Comment_3237506
Wow.. that went right over your head, didnt it? Lol
Please elaborate, this short statement had little to no meaning for me like this.
What is your point?
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Overall his suggestions where fine but some of the buffs where over the top. Most times however he labeled them as such and their were a separate section to the other changes.
The trapper changes where quit good (more grass please!), the nerfs to Spirits add-ons or Nurse are also fine and especialy the Blight add-on changes would be very much good.
The suggestion for add-on changes were pretty sensible as there are problems with add-ons on certain Killers in one way or the other (Tombstone Piece vs Pyramide Heads whole range) with a very glaring issue when add-ons just do nothing because they are bugged.
I disliked some of his buff suggestions thou as they were a bit too much. However I agree with the statement that Oni, Plague, Wraith and Legion are fine Killers right now and that BHVR is doing a far better job on Killer balance than they did in the past.
Otz should however make a video about the problem with maps. He refers to this a lot and thus he should make the point and tell us what he means by "bad map design". Not that it does not exists, but the sentence is so vague that everybody has a different opinion on that matter and can mean different things. Many of his takes depend on what fixes to maps he would like to see.
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Just do bones or abuse it. Survivors fly to boons like moths to a flame and your job as a Killer is to abuse it. This is why you can decide to kick it or leave it...
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
CoH is the only Boon that is consistently good.
Shadow Step is okay, but situational.
And Exponential and Dark Theory are laughably bad.
Hey, do not talk in such a way to my boys Jonah an Yoichi ever again xp
No, to be fair. Dark Theory is only good for the achievement and Exboonential is highly situational. However I go some cool plays off with that boon when Killers where to slug happy as it is the only tool to pick up somebody that is being slugged by a camping Killer near a hook...
Bet that Bubba was eating his desk after that game...
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235347#Comment_3235347
Cant wait till windows, pallets, and hook states are removed and survivor speed is decreased
I do not know how my suggestions lead to this conclusion or how anything BHVR did made you think that.
They did plenty for survivors during the last updates. Boon: Cycle of Healing is "better Selfcare", Off the Record is a good anti-tunneling perk, baseline borrow time is great when you do not try to bodyblock with it (and even better when stacked with real BT), Reassurance is great to detere camping, various regression perks got nerfed...
Sure they did things for Killers as well, as they have to take care of both sides. But acting like they only care about Killers and want to grind survivors into the dust just ignores all positive changes for survivors they did.
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I do not know why people complain so much about this system.
You maybe should compare it to other games while asking the question how matchmaking for a smaller game like DbD is even possible. We are not playing chess here where you can have anything between 50 to 20.000 elo and millions of players around the world, we a playing a medium sized survival game with little to no competitive implications.
The first goal is thus to make matches for players so that they can play. The second goal is to make balanced matches. As soon as the second goal interferes with the first the experience becomes miserable for all (remember something like more than 20 minute ques for top-killers with a single main).
For me personal this works: I rather take some unbalanced matches than no matches at all. I want to come home, do some housework, make dinner and then sit down with a beer and play DbD with my friends. Waiting a long time for a perfectly balanced match would ruin this. I do not want to wait for all eternity to get a game, I want my games and do weird stuff with funky builds.
Sure this works better when facing a Killer on my level and I prefer that. MMR does the job for me and I get a mixed bag: Blights who run over me and Masterminds who do not know anything about their power.
I think the majority of players are more like me and less competitive. Thus you need to tailor the MMR system to them to keep them enjoying your game. BHVR did that with MMR and it works.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237270#Comment_3237270
I've done it as Doctor.
You pretend to be a clone and wait for them to hop on a gen, then go for a grab. Since Doctor has both a big Terror Radius and an excuse for a lookalike to just be standing around, people generally don't expect it.
Well, that and who the heck runs Insidious besides camping Bubbas?
Trolling Cannibals like me.
You chase. You hook them in the basement. You flicker Insidious to their face and then leave to let your Monsterous Shrine do the work while having fun with another player. It is really funny.
Also during a chase as Cannibal it is quit interesting. People panic quit a lot and you can use your Insidious to wait around the corner, they run into you, you chainsaw them and scare the living ######### out of a survivor.
@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237270#Comment_3237270
I've done it as Doctor.
You pretend to be a clone and wait for them to hop on a gen, then go for a grab. Since Doctor has both a big Terror Radius and an excuse for a lookalike to just be standing around, people generally don't expect it.
Well, that and who the heck runs Insidious besides camping Bubbas?
This is such a genius idea...
Sorry, but I just have to copy this and try it for myself while hoping I never play against you doing that.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235944#Comment_3235944
Her being able to go thru walls is her main chasing power and basic identity. If you remove it, you get wesker without slowdown from infection, with fatigue mechanics and much lower mobility. And on top of it you want to also nerf range+recharge...
From my perspective all that is required for nurse to be ok again is increase recharge time for her blinks. The idea is, that missing both of her blinks (so missing twice) should be more punishing then just 6s time waste. Also this would allow for survivors to gain some more distance - so nurse does not have to hit survivors from like ~6m for next try. Also stun timer should not go in paralel with fatigue time. Right now missing m1 is more punishing then getting stunned which is quite stupid.
I do not get why people want to nerf her into the ground. Nurse overall is a concept I like to face, I only think her attack should be a special attack. Everything else is fine for me.
Personally I think that Nurse synergy with perks like No one escapes Death and especially Starstruck is too good and makes her too easy. This is because normally you need two hits to down a survivor, have to land two blinks. Reducing this to 1 means that even I can get downs and kills as a Nurse (and I am pretty bad).
However the suggestion to make her second Blink a special attack is better than mine. This still allows good Nurses (not me) to use Starstruck and other perks while gatekeeping "bad Nurses" out.
Nurse is supposed to be the best Killer for those who invest time and skill to master her. I do not want to change that and nerf her into the ground. However right now Nurse hinders certain perks to be implemented (Awakened Awareness was the most recent perk to hit the wall...) and that should be addressed.
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DbD is a game that lives by two things for me: Friends and breaks.
Sometimes I play Killer and get bored. Then I take a break, paint something, play some chess or do some seasonal things like swimming. Or I take a break by...
...playing survivor with friends. This rarely gets dull for me, because I like hanging out with them and we talk about stuff, do some archives and just play a bit.
I do not think that DbD is a game I could play non-stop every day for very long. Which is why I take plenty of breaks or switch my roles. I think many people do it this way: They play some, then loose interest and play something different, then return for an event, then leave again, then return for a cool new Killer and so on...
@Bartlaus said:
It's just a guess, but I think a lot of the really good players are taking a break or have quit.
I remember times when I played with or against survivors who were far better than me. And I remember times when killers tried to mindgame me and didnt hardcore camp/ tunnel at 5 gens. But that is long time ago.
The kill stats from september confirm me. If even killers like Sadako have a high kill rate in high MMR, then something is wrong. And no, she is not strong.
I miss the times when I could hold my own against a prenerf omega blink nurse in the Solo Q because I had smart mates :(
Is it the screwed up MMR or am I just unlucky? What is your opinion?
The Killrate is not wrong even at high MMR. If you want DbD to be balanced as a 50:50 in reality you need to aim for an above 50% winrate. This includes Sadako and Trapper. It was necessary to "rise the floor" to allow people a chance when playing M1 Killers.
To keep the game fresh you need people to play all of the Killers. They offer the difference in gameplay to keep people more invested. And to do that you need Killers like Onryo, Trapper, Hag and Ghostface to have a chance to "win" the game.
Well the game is incredibly repetitive after facing all of the 28 killer enough times. Maps don't make that much of a difference gameplay wise and there are only so many good perk combinations and them too don't change the gameplay all too much.
It gets dull after facing 28 of them enough times. Now imagine facing only 20, 10 or 5 of them...it quickens this process.
Now, where are your smart teammates...
Well, maybe they are on a break right now and you just have a bad timing. Maybe your MMR is a bit down right now and you play more "lord of the potatoes" (welcome to my MMR, I am one of those potatoes Xp). And right now there is an event and a new archive: People will play that and play suboptimal to do their challenges, they want fancy stuff.
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"Fun to face" and "fun to play" are subjective things.
As an example I like playing Myers and there are people who enjoy playing Twins. Same for "facing a Killer", I like playing against Cannibal, I hate playing against Huntress. This is a feeling and not something you can objectively put down.
This all comes down to a very simple statement: People like to win.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235207#Comment_3235207
What's unreasonable is how y'all are talking about killer in general. Not everybody plays Nurse and Blight. It's easy to get at least a kill before endgame? I think not. What's Freddy gonna do? Or Pig or Clown or Sadako? These killers don't have anything. People can easily pre-drop pallets and have all the gens done before someone's out. It's on me in a way, because I picked a bad killer, but that needs to change, no? As soon as a survivor is on hook and there's at least 2 others alive, it's a free escape without instadowns. They just bait getting hit, the game never gives you the grab, and then everyone conga lines each other. Y'all can keep pretending that that's not what happens all you want. Go ahead and side with the guy who says, "You need 3 healthy people hook bombing to get someone out in endgame."
This sounds stupid, but I think I grinded my "bad Killers" down enough to still play them.
I get matches where I am helpless but those are only the most atrocious maps. Most other times my time as Ghostface, Myers or Sadako is fine. However I see a big difference between these games and my Oni games, where I take it more serious.
However I still think that "hook grabs" are pretty much a dumb mechanic on healthy survivors. I know what you mean by conga line and how it would put a Killer at disadvantage here. However I would take this because it would put a dent in hooking and the "defending the hook" moments are usually more exciting for me: The scenario where I defend the hook against the "swarming" survivors.
To hinder camping I think removing the grab would be fine. This is only a small nerf to Killer that I can live with.
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@Babadook83 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235306#Comment_3235306
it is sad, but not unsurprising. they're milking out the community for the last few years this game has. the latest flashlight change is just another example of how to make survivor less and less fun. they don't add new exciting gameplay, they only take away gameplay. it's the sad truth
I do not see it that way. I play mostly duo-que with a friend of mine and our games are fine.
We mostly play fun or thematic build, we go for archives and we still get a pretty good escape rate or at least a very close game. Our main problem are camping and hook suicides/DCs.
Camping is a problem but hard to address. So far my main issue here is the "hook grab" which is straight up dumb and allows too many Killers to just camp for free. I have little issue with camping if it makes sense for the Killer: Endgame, a hooked survivor in a three-gen or teammate introduced camping. However dumb face-camping is mostly bound to Cannibal and the "hook grab". Hence I want the grab removed.
Tunneling is not an issue for us after base Borrow Time, real Borrow Time, Off the Record, Decisive Strike, Sprint Burst and Med-Kits. Right now Off the Record is enough to give a tunneling Killer hell if we want, because the silence while injured is very useful.
I get that you want "exciting gameplay" for the survivor side. However there is a problem: Once you add a side-objective somebody is complaining. Boons led to Killers complaining like hell, when in reality it was only Cycle of Healing that was out of line while all other Boons are too weak, and Killers with secondary objectives are "too complicated for soloQ" and lead to whining here.
Maybe we see this a bit different but for me each Killer is interesting new gameplay. Learning how to outplay Wesker is fun for me and it always puts a smile on my face, when I know the Weskers power better than he does. This is why it pains me when I only see certain Killers. I want a mixed back to keep the game fresh and interesting. Every Killer with <1,5% pickrate is bad news for me.
SoloQ is the biggest issue and here are adjustments needed. As you can see with me and my friend, duos, trios and full SWFs have little problems. We do not need further "buffs", but we would like "better teammates". This includes a bit more information for them AND less suicides and/or DCs.
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I do not see the problem.
I played Onryo and Dredge yesterday and survivors had 0 issues with blinding me. Even when I played Mastermind with Lightborn they were landing those flashlights plenty...
Well, maybe I did not see it because of the lightburns...
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If you are not good at looping try some training wheels: Windows of Opportunity is a fine perk to help you localize windows and pallets, Sprint Burst helps you to get to a loop in the first place and many more.
Do not be afraid to throw pallets sometimes, but do not go for the stun. This gets more true if you are dead on hook. Your team can deal with less pallets but it can not deal with only 3 people remaining. Only safe the really strong pallets for somebody else if you feel like it, you can safely throw some filler pallets during a chase.
Overall your issue sounds more like a general problem with M1 killers and looping. Only practice will help you here.
The other way would be to play a more stealthy game: Take "Fixated", take "Off the Record", maybe "Boon: Shadowstep" or even "Spine Chill". Take dark clothing (no, you do not need Claudette, other survivors can be quit stealthy too) and go for hiding when the Killer comes for you.
The goal is to wast time for your team. You can do this by looping but also by hiding. An important skill is to know when to do which of these (for normal players like us at least). If the Killer wasts 30 seconds searching for you and another 10 to chase you, you did a good job.
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@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233982#Comment_3233982
That is interesting, any kill rate above 50% average BY DEFINITION means that MMR is not working to create fun balanced matches.
That seems like a jumped conclusion for me. Why should 50% be the optimal kill-rate?
It should be slightly higher to imply a balanced game, because you have to add a margin. If one survivor gets killed early on the game is very likely to end in a 4k or 3k+hatch. A 4k and even a 3people escape is more likely than a 2:2 which would be the perfect outcome of every match because of the momentum a single kill creates even in a balanced game.
This one kill early can happen due to bad matchmaking (wider MMR range after a while of searching), people playing as a stack (good players with their newby friend) or other unfortunate events like suicide on hook or archive/achievement challenges. As such the margin has to stay and now we could argue about how big it is supposed to be...
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233955#Comment_3233955
Then explain to me why you BHVR (knowing this) still went ahead and made GENERAL BASEKIT BUFFS because you didn't like the kill rate stats you showed before? They didn't show the full story either but you still took them to do basekit changes.
You even made a post after some time saying "we happy about the basekit changes because the Killrate went up".
Make sense bhvr.
You made a wrong conclusion here.
You assumed that BHVR changed the things they did based on those numbers. However concurrence does not mean correlation. If you would have read the developer updates you would have had a better understanding of those things. Not to say that these statistics did not have any impact of course.
Some things are also about "internal balance" of a Killers set or the Killer role as a whole: You do not want a certain Killer to only ever pick 2 of its add-ons, you do not want all Killers to use the same perks. Same for the survivor side by the way.
Killer buffs and changes are also not always about their performance. They are also about their feeling and flair. Take Ghostface as an example: His add-ons did not get that much stronger, however now they feel much better. Or Plague, when they changed some of her interactions, something that did not outright buff her but made her more enjoyable to play.
Just an idea here: Maybe the devs did buff some baseline things for Killer so that there is no longer a 100% Killer incentive all of the time? Or maybe they did it so that in a future patch they can buff soloQ without loosing to many Killer players?
I am all in for a buff to soloQ right now and some nerfs to Killers where they belong. A nerf to Blights add-ons, the removal of hook-grabs on healthy survivors, a buff to maps (pls add brown and yellow maps...and make them do something xp), maybe even a bigger hast on the baseline BT (7%-10%) and a bit more information for survivors (seeing if somebody beside the obsession is chased as an example...).
And important question you should ask is also: What is the goal? BHVR stated that they aim for 55-60% winrate if I remember correctly. As such the numbers are actually fine.
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@Regulus47 said:
She's actually a pretty strong killer if you learn her. Don't listen to all the whiners who need to excuse why they can't 4K with her by slandering her power, she's pretty much got everything in the book. Stealth, mobility, slowdown, can kill survivors without hooking, even some limited chase!
I have to admit, I was one of those whiners.
Still I played her and loved her. She has the right feeling which is the most important part in a Killer.
The main issue with her is that you rarely see the effects of your slowdown, stealth or chasing power. You do not see how much you condemned somebody and you have no idea when you are invisible to a survivor, when you are flickering and what those damn "longer flickering" and "different flickering" add-ons do.
This led to a weird scenario for me: I win my matches but I have no idea how and when it was my power or how I could improve here.
Maybe she does not need a buff, but a slight hint when and how much you are flickering would be nice.
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Seriously you just ignore it. If you get hit by an Eruption then so be it. The Killer still has to invest time to erupt your generator and sometimes gets no value out of the perk at all when the only marked generator is finished before the down happens.
Applying Eruption takes time and then you have to chase somebody and get two hits. A Killer who erupts multiple generators usually has invested significant amount of time for this. Also if you go for an Eruption kick you give the survivor a pretty big headstart most of the time.
@Phasmamain said:
That’s the neat part you don’t
Damn, you were faster...
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In my personal experience Dead Hard usage went down a lot. You get some people who have it but most survivors now use something different like Lithe, Sprint Burst or Balance Landing. Dead Hard came pretty much in line with those perks and this is fine.
However now Dead Hard take much more skill. You can not just Dead Hard for distance or something like that you have to bait and play a game with the Killer. It is now interactive and I enjoy facing it and using it.
@Pulsar said:
Y E S
The Dead Hard nerf has genuinely been one of the most well-designed changes that BHVR has ever done. The perk is still good after it's changes but it's actually fair and takes skill to use.
This. I have no problem with skillful Dead Hard usage. Most times I can blame myself for swinging at a window or at a survivor that turned 180 and ran into my direction. They tricked me and this is a good thing: Interactive gameplay.
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Happened to me too. I was playing Sadako and the survivors where totally confused by me disappearing "into the sky" which was part of a slightly buggy animation. Then one survivor was openly throwing on his cheat-engine, bodyblocking me in a "hooked" animation while flying across the map to annoy me.
I reported those survivors. Nothing happened to me. It seems that the support is quit on track here and does not take this lightly.
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Dredge is fine where it is.
The thing has map mobility, stealth and good add-ons. He is interesting to play and offers tons of different options to approach survivors if the map RNG is on your side a little bit.
Killers with map mobility will always be in a good spot, no matter what you do to them. Applying pressure to survivors to not let them work on generators is the most important skill after all. Improving here is great and if you have a Killer like Dredge who can make use of this skill, then you have a good Killer.
I still do not think that he is a "top tier" Killer. However he is not weak and I would not say that he needs buffs or nerfs.
People also tend to forget the most important thing about a Killer: The overall feeling. Is the Killer fun to play, do you feel like xyz when you play it?
Myers is a weaker Killer, sure. However when I play him I get a good feeling, I am a stalky Boogyman that maybe could kill you right now (Tombstone Piece) and you have to respect me. I have an iconic chase music, I have thematic add-ons and my knife, I feel fine playing him.
Nightmare and Twins are the opposite. They are strong but the gameplay just feels boring and uninspired (or clunky). I do not feel like a "god" in my Dreamworld and I do not feel like I control two bodies when playing twins, more like I release my pet dog to hunt somebody and then I need to pick up the leftovers...
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351237/i-tunnel-in-more-then-80-of-my-matches
"If u are playing survivor and don't want to get tunneld DON'T take a bt hit."
This is why I wanted baseline DS instead of baseline BT.
But, what is your problem with this?
if a survivor bodyblocks with BT then they sign up for another chase. I do not see a problem here. Baseline DS would create more issues: The person would bodyblock, go down and the Killer could not do anything but slug it out. After a BT hit the Killer has at least a decision and you can use the BT hit to get to a safe loop if you want.
Seems good for me.
@Config said:
Hi, I'm a killer main with 2700 hours in the game, i consider myself really good at playing killer, and mediocre at survivor, when I play survivor I fell that being camped is unfun, and tunneld at 4-5 gens to me seems super unfair, but when I'm playing killer it seems unlogical to not tunnel, most of the times when the guy gets unhooked he tries to take a protection hit, and I mean it happens in 90% of my matches, i don't mind chasing the guy who took the hit, his 1 hit down and even if he has DS it's not that impactful. If u are playing survivor and don't want to get tunneld DON'T take a bt hit. It's literally better for the killer to chase u again. In comp people often run even for the people to discourage tunell, i would have someone dead faster by chasing you, it's just not fun (as killer or survivor) to chase or being chased the same survivor twice. Often times it's not because I want to tunnel someone I fell forced. And if there's 3-2 gens left and no one is dead I would definitely tunnel someone out. Either to get pressure by body blocks or to get into a 3v1 with is A LOT better for me.
In my opinion killers should be rewarded for not tunneling, instead of punishing tunneling. If u make so hooking multiple people makes the game slower in some way it would discourage tunelling tremendously. Tunell is often times not malicious it's literally the best option.
My changes: survivor how suffer from the endurance status effect get their collision disabled (this DOES NOT affect dead hard) for the duration of the endurance. Upon vaulting a window/pallet they gain their collision back for 3 seconds (so no one couldn't abuse window tech). If the killer hook a different survivor the killer gain some kind of buff, that could be gens slower, faster cooldowns, anything that could encourage a healthier gameplay.
Why is tunneling a problem thou when you have "Off the Record" (+ Sprint Burst)?
We all know that "Iron Will" was one of the strongest perks in the game prior to its nerf. Off the Record gives the survivor 80 seconds of Endurance status.
If you have Sprint Burst and Off the Record you basically just enter another regular chase, however now with Iron Will on your side. Once unhooked you can sprint to a different tile, there you can loop the Killer normally, maybe eat another hit. Endurance kicks in and you can use the speed buff to escape once again.
This plays like a normal chase. You have a lead via Sprint Burst and a second health stat via Off the Record.
I think Survivors also should get back to using Borrow Time if they hate tunneling: Borrow Time gives you 15 seconds of Endurance and Hast (7%). This is a huge boon to get away from the Killer. If you want changes we could argue to increase the hast to 10% to get away with more ease.
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A huge thank you to BHVR for posting these numbers by the way. I like that they give us these information and even provide more when asked for it like with @McDoobz. I am a huge nerd for statistics and discussion these numbers with my friends makes my day right now.
Also these inspire many players to use the "weaker" Killers and get a feel for them, maybe reversing their opinion about certain kits and how to play them.
I always used to tell survivor to adapt to a certain Killer by changing the way they approach the power. Survivors (myself included) are guilty of bad plays and trying the same approach to different Killers more often than not. However the same is true for Killer players who try to play Onryo like they play Wraith (I am guilty of that too).
I think the most prominent thing these statistics show us are:
- Secondary objectives are very important for Killers to be successful. Onryo, Cenobite, Plague and also Mastermind all have those and they perform quit well.
- Map mobility is king. Even with a weaker chase power (Freddy, Onryo and Dredge) are able to hold their own. They are not screwed by big map and can apply pressure. This is a good thing: It rewards good Killers who know how to split their attention and pressure generators, thus leading to more chases and more fun overall.
- The usual suspects are still very good. Huntress, Blight and Nurse have solid pickrates alongside good winrates. This implies that they are just as we though: Very good Killers.
BHVR stated that they aim for a ~60% kill-rate (please correct me if I am wrong). It seems that they have reached their goal. Killers are in a good spot right now, so they can confidently go on and buff soloQ a bit now (by the way remove hook grabs on healthy survivors please...).
Going by the numbers I think that adjustments to some Killer would still be fine. However lifting the floor for survivors would probably be the better approach to tone down some of those numbers if desired. The best way to archive this is by buffing the weakest survivors: SoloQ players.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
Without the usage rates, the numbers are out of context. Sadako for example may have a very low usage rate but the few people who do use her, over-perform. Same thing with Freddy (speaking as a former Freddy main). The character is generally garbage, but you can still get results if you really want to fight through the struggle lol. - not worth it hence why I'm a Wesker main now.
Just take a look at Twins...those two Twin players must put in some damn good work there...
This reminds me of looking at the statistics from magic, warhammer or something like that where you would think "oh hey, that army/deck is pretty balanced at 55% winrate" only to then realize that those 55% were only so low because they included all the mirror matches of an fraction was played by everybody and their uncle...
I just imagine around ten Sadako players with around 1000-5000 hours into the game finishing most of their matches with a 4k while playing only 5-10 games a day fueling this statistic...
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Marking Wesker as a worse Demoboy is downplaying his infection by a mile. Wesker who can hit his ability often will have a pretty descent slowdown on their side without using any perks. Also the vaulting ability is very strong when used correctly. There is a good skill ceiling to him.
Plague does not have any mobility. However I would argue that the Killers at the top level are those who most certainly benefit from a uncoordinated team. Dredge who gets the first hit and triggers a quick Nightfall, Plague who feeds of a bad cleanse to snowball, Oni who gets first blood and transforms it into two downs or Cenobite who gets a chainhunt because nobody did the box. All those things are the result of to little communication. And this lack of communication makes those Killers so strong.
The other side are good Killer players. People who have more than a thousand hours into the game can benefit from good mobility and a bit of stealth with ease. They know when and where they need to be, which lets them play Killers like Freddy or Sadako to a big success.
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I am so confused by this statistic.
But then again BHVR already told us not to just look at those killrates and assume things. I guess that still holds true...
And now to throw all of that out of the window, here are my assumptions:
- The top killers are those who punish uncoordinated teams. Plague, Cenobite and Oni all do that. A single hit can let a good Oni snowball the entire game, a single chain-hunt can end the game for Cenobite and cleansing at the wrong time fuels Plague.
- Plague is high because she counters healing, a very strong mechanic. Medkits mean nothing for her.
- For top players on the Killer side mobility is a huge asset. Thus Dredge, Onryou, Nurse and Blight are up there.
- Mastermind is new so the numbers are inflated until survivors get the hang on him. Also his iridecent add-on that lets everybody start infected is pretty much too strong right now.
The overall killrate seems to have settled at ~60%. This is what BHVR was aiming for.
However I would like to see how many of those games were 4ks/3ks and how many were 2k/1k. After all an early kill almost guarantees you a 3/4k as a killer while most of my survivor matches result in 2-3 escapes when we make it to 2-1 generators without anybody getting killed...