Gwinty
Gwinty
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I can understand Decisive Strike and Borrow Time. Both are kinda needed when you do not want to get tunneled or safe a camped teammate. Not problem here. If people abuse them: Wait for Borrow Time, slug against Decisive Strike. A downed survivor can not do generators and if you chase another one you got 3 people occupied.
Dead Hard is an issue because there are little to no other perks that are used here. It gets boring pretty fast to bait a Dead Hard every time, have them use it for distance or wait for a window. At least the hit validation is better now so that you just get a missed attack with no scream or blood most times.
Overcentralization is boring period for me...
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2771884#Comment_2771884
I run into bully squads alot tbh but that could just be my own crap luck lol. But I agree SoloQ needs love and help but so many Killers need a QoL or a straight up Buff to keep up with the growing list of shiny toys of Survivors
Damn that bad...
Especially Killers like...well, Clown, Twins and Nemesis could use some love. People are still a bit icky about Nemesis and that he lacks that feel of an unstoppable force (which I understand) and thus nerfing one of the few "feel good" add-ons on that Killer is a pretty bad signal.
Also Clow nerf...yes, Pinky Finger, yes that is fine. But seriously the other things?
I get their argument that they have to bring the add-ons in line if they have such a big impact. A Killer should be good on their own and not add-on dependent. However then they should nerf the add-on and baseline buff the Killer and not just gut the add-on.
Boil Over itself offers some "issues", sure. I think it is okay and like that I get to see a perk other than Dead Hard, Iron Will, Decisive Strike, UnbreakaBill/Prove thyself/Borrow Time/Cycle of Healing for a bit.
Still: Survivor now get to enjoy a "new" perk while Nemesis players are asking themself how to live on without Marvins...
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@Pulsar said:
He does come, but let's be real, the only reason to play Pinhead is for his voicelines.
...nah, I am a big fan of Hellraiser and the voicelines are just the cherry on top for me. I also like his gameplay, the chains, the animation and the chasing theme.
I know most people dislike his power but I quit enjoy it. Must be a pretty strange personal taste I have but for me, this Pinhead is fine.
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@foxsansbox said:
This game is incredibly reactionary:
- Once a killer experiences the misery of DS, they start to assume you have it - Modest slugging
- Once a killer experiences the misery of DH (AND THE 7 HIT VALIDATIONS IN A ROW I GOT. THANKS), they start to assume you have it and ride your ass before swinging
- Once a killer experiences BT bodyblock squads, they start to assume it's coming and will go out of their way to make unhooking an exercise in madness - Obligatory Bubba complainers feel free to chime in here
- Once a killer experiences the misery of the DS, DH, BT, Unbreakable squad the killer loses their mind and tries to send a survivor to meet their maker as soon as possible every game
- Then you get the threat of COH, and now we see that extreme tunneling start to crawl up the MMR ladder to where most high level players are doing it too - And if they're not already doing it, wait until they hear that Boon gong sound in the distance and watch their personality change instantaneously
- Now we have Boil Over, and yes, you can all downplay it, but the perk is strong. Strong enough that Killers are going to treat it exactly like they treat the previous five perks. They are going to -assume- you have it and play accordingly
You know what my play accordingly is? Starstruck/Agitation Nurse. I turn into a totem-snuffing, survivor slugging, 1 blink 1 kill monster. Frothing at the mouth as I carve down survivors so panicked by expose that gen pressure collapses 30 seconds into the game.
Business has been good. Too good.
But the DC's are getting to be too much, even for someone like me who relishes the salt. Hell, I usually dance in it while begging the survivors for more in post-game chat.
Obviously, I'm leaving some things out here. I'm leaving out how Killer adaptations like the above are fairly responsible for the 5 Gen rush, the horrendous map offerings that have become the staple of higher MMR, and several other survivor tactics that I'm not looking to downplay or complain about, or even bring attention to. There is a myriad of bullshit in this game.
And yes, I run survivor the exact same way. My one filler perk is Detective's Hunch. I've stopped every NOED of every game I've been in since I slotted it, whether it was in play or not.
The point of this longwinded thread is simple. This isn't fun. With the exception of DH, depending on how you play you can go through an entire game without ever seeing the above perks kick in and provide value. But killers will assume you have them and play accordingly anyway, because the second chance perks are instant game changers. If only a few of them get value you've most likely lost, and most killers will tell you that even if they resisted the invisible perk arms race at first, once they see the EGC hostage holding T-Bag danceathons all bets are off for future games.
But that's how this game is currently designed, strategies designed to counter perks that might not even be present in the current match. An early survivor out, a few critical killer misplays. I can't tell you how many times my stubbornness blinking after a single survivor with more experience than me lead to a 4E. But at least that was a learning experience. I promise you I will never play a divide and conquer strat ever again, COH is that much of a threat to what used to be my favorite strategy.
The casualty of this is everything that isn't meta (Read as - Extreme value second chance perks). I can't tell you how many survivors I put into the dirt in seconds only to find out they were rocking a meme build and just trying to have fun. They never got the chance to use those perks either, because I wasn't going to let them for fear that I was going to have to deal with the second chance menagerie of bullshit.
I don't think there's a solution here. I say remove them all, including Killer ones (NWO, NoED, whatever others ones I can't recall because all I do is slap cheeks with Nurse so my perks don't really matter).
And for all of you who are going to jump in and suggest we play chill, or fool around, this thread isn't for you. People are allowed to want to play this game competitively, and they are allowed to hope for a meta that isn't built around second chances.
I'm just tired of the invisible perk arms race.
Edited for clarity and succinctness and my ######### typing skills.
Okay, first of all thank you for clarifying that this thread is not for me. And this it not sarcasm, this is honest.
I will however ask you one question: What kind of meta do you want?
I get that you dislike second chance perks. However every time a new "strong" perk is implemented (Cycle of Healing, Boil Over, Shadowstep, Mettle of Men...) there are also complains even if those perks change the things you face. In order to overthrow the meta a new "most effective tactic available" has to be introduced after all.
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I faced it and had little problems with it. Sure, steering gets a bit difficult sometimes but so far I have little to no issues. Still got my hook. The only time I had a problem was when I faced two friends who were both using Boil Over with Breakout. That took me by surprise the first time. Later I just had to slug them to get my hook but then again: Starstruck solved that issue...
@NemeanXIII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2771836#Comment_2771836
Oh no I totally agree, Ive had alot of trouble today with these bully squad's.They force us to change the our killer meta for weaker perks to use while they give the survivors stronger perks and most of them only want to troll you with these perks not play the game as intended.
The survivors are also taking a "weaker" perk to get this effect. Boil Over is still not the same level as Dead Hard, Iron Will or Deceisive Strike...
Bully squads are an issue with or without this perk. They now just have another angle and require even more slugging. Not that I mind as long as I play Oni or Hillbilly I have to slug either way, Cannibal also does not mind a bit more slugging along the way.
@VikingDragonXii said:
Here is the thing, we will start seeing more slugging Killers along with Camping and Tunneling Killers.....and if the bully squads are using Boon Exo along with Boil Over we will see Camping Sluggers......the Devs are incentiving the "toxic" behavior from Killers but don't care how abusive Perks are on both Killer and Survivor. They say Booms are working as intended but most agree the basic mechanics of them need a lot of tweeking, CoH still has the stacking bonus with Medkits and the Nerf only made heals take a few seconds longer. They don't care how SWFs have a major advantage over SoloQ and Killers but only to address the possible changes to SoloQ HUDs to have basic information on what's going on.
We all can see how broken the game is and how unintentionally biased the Devs are, because I personally don't think they are biased on purpose, but major changes do need to be done or thier cash cow of a game will die
I will never understand why survivors consider slugging toxic as long as the Killer does not let them bleed out without even trying to hook them when they could. Slugging is an important part of the game for some Killers (Oni, Hillbilly, Bubba), to counter some perks (Deceisive Strike) and to gain momentum. It has a defined risk of you loosing the person, UnbreakaBill happening or Exponential finally getting some value...honestly a fine mechanic: Risk, reward and counterplay.
If the devs are biased it is because they want to make SoloQ more fun. And let us be fair: For the most of us it is hell. I only play survivor when I can play with at least one friend and even when we play as 3 the one soloQ survivor can shot us in the foot easily without even wanting it.
I thing the bias is deserved for this.
Bully squads are quit rare (unless you play at the weekend it seems) compared to 2-1-1, 2-2 or 3-1 lobbies. Balancing perks around them would leave probably 90% of the players in the dust...
The problem is that survivors get some shiny new toys while Killers got...well, I guess Gearhead and Deadmans are a thing...and a bunch of nerfs to Clown, Nemesis and Twins...sure the reasoning for those nerfs may be up for debate, but the image we get is: Survivor gets new toys, Killer gets nerfed. This is bad communication, not even bad intent...
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Your misconception comes from the fact that you think "killing" is the main job of the "Killers". This is indeed a bit false advertising here unless you read the fine print: The kill comes at the end. The trial is there to inflict suffering upon people and feed the entity.
Pinhead is not here to "kill" people. He is here to make them suffer. You can even argue that he is holding back so that the survivors suffer more. Hanging people on a meathook, driving chains into them over and over and giving them a slimmer of hope only to then kill them just to start it all over again...this is the reason pinhead is here. The "sacrifice" to the entity is not the kill but the suffering along the way.
However suffering that feeds the entity need hope to balance it. This is why pallets and windows exist and this is why sometimes survivors need to escape. If they do not they get empty and dull too fast and can no longer feed the entity.
So much for the lore...
Now for the gameplay: Pinhead is perfectly fine. His chainhunt is a great tool to slowdown survivors, his own chains are pretty strong if the RNG does not gut you and they even block Dead Hard. His theme is rocking, his animations are on point and with his voicelines I am getting quit a good feeling.
I can not understand your issue, I enjoy my Pinhead.
You want the Killer to become a NPC just the other way around like some survivor mains do. Nether thought this was possible by the way...
@Phasmamain said:
Why though? A licensed killer should be a fun homage to their home series. Sure pinhead might be a bit weak but he’s still a great representation of the character.
On the other hand a killer like nemesis is decently strong but absolutely terrible in terms of representing the character which is why a lot of people don’t like him
This hits it...a fun homage to Hellraiser is all I want from Pinhead. That I got and I love it.
The fact that you have to use Sprit Fury / Enduring to get a better Nemesis feeling is just insulting as the fact that he can not hit you over cars and lacks that "unstoppable force" feeling.
And let us not talk about how Freddy right now is lacking just as Pig...
Honestly the way, I like how Myers plays. I always get the feeling when I bring him and I also get the feeling of approaching doom when I face him. As weak as he is, he somehow gets it across for me.
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@Gigante said:
Why is the game still the way it is? 200 million pallets at every turn, how is that fair to any killer? Why the hell did Behaviour come to the conclusion that it would be fair to both sides?
This map is ridiculous and depressing to try to loop, because the survivor just drops the pallet and runs half a meter and he already finds 10 more pallets to loop.
I wanted a logical reason why Behavior left it that way because it doesn't make any sense to have this absurd amount of pallets on a map.
The problem is not the number of pallets. If every pallet would be like the one at the desk on RPD (the tiny square desk with the typewriter) this would be no issue at all. That every pallet is safe and can not be played but must be kicked is an issue...but that has already been said.
The game also has few other obstacles which makes it difficult for survivors without anything to work with. I like those pallets at the holes by the way, they are a different design to the usual by adding verticality to the usual loop.
The way to fix this mess of pallet city would be to add more playable pallets and not just "more" pallets...or some other mechanic that allows play around it...
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Nothing at first. I would like to see these things addressed as separate problems and not to be mixed.
SoloQ survivors are always a bit weak and feel bad. That should not be the case and if they can remove that feeling maybe my soloQ mates play better and I can coordinate better with them. I usually play with a friend and while we two can do some fancy stuff we often have issues with soloQ players having problems.
Kindred, Better Together and other stuff helps but it is not the same.
If Killers fall off an have problems that should be addressed later. I guess that some Killers will show little to no problems: Blight, Nurse and Spirit are already pretty good. Pyramide Head and Artist are also fine and do not need changes. It would be mostly trapping Killers (Hag and Trapper) and stealthy Killers (Pig, Ghostface and Myers) who should get buffed.
@BenihimeWrath said:
I would say probably the best and most universally equal option is to add 2.5% instant damage to the kick, and increase base gen regression to equal Ruin (so the only difference between the hex and normal play is that the hex does it automatically.)
This would primarily achieve a few things:
- Force survivors to go even in the time investment for killers to use the 'kick' animation
- Cause 'gen tapping' to not ALWAYS BE the right choice by adding the opportunity cost of possibly getting that instant extra bit of gen regression
- Allow more fluid back and forth on gens, making games last longer if played well without necessarily just jacking up the gen completion time in raw numbers.
- Add an opportunity cost to Ruin in which you'll be unable to use the 2.5% instant regression, for the privilege of starting regression automatically. This passively buffs all other hexes and gen regression by reducing the 'peak' of what either should be.
And honestly I like those. I think Ruin should get tuned down a bit and base regression should go up. Same for kicks to the generator who should get their value back. Right now unless you have Pop, Dragons Grip or something like this the kick does nothing. I would even be fine with a slight nerf to Pop for this to account for the change.
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Just wait for the nerf to hit the servers and then let us talk about this again. I am willing to give a reduced healing-speed a run even thou I do not think that this is the main problem. Honestly a safety-zone where two survivors can heal each other like this is fine. The problem comes from the strong self-healing that can be stacked with other perks.
If survivors coordinate themself to heal that is fine. The boons "lighthouse" aspect makes it strong here and that is also fine. Survivors on coms could already do this but soloQ benefits greatly from this effect for their heals and I like it as a side effect. SoloSurvivors are always too uncoordinated and giving them this is pretty good.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2765566#Comment_2765566
You're joking right?
Don't pretend like you don't know what I'm talking about. Every Bubba I face is a facecamper tthat abuses his special ability to insta down everyone.
And his special ability lasts way too long. This is a fact. He swings about 10 times with that thing and insta closes gaps. And if you try to use corners to mess it up, guess what, he's not like Billy. Bubba can actually turn too. It's too strong.
Please, you complain about Cannibal being OP...
Have you ever tried playing him and I mean, playing him as in "chase survivors"? He can be pretty demanding to hit and good survivors will give you a run for you money. If you try to run loops tight, enjoy your tantrum. If you do not, enjoy the survivor running you for a while. Playing against a Cannibal that goes chasing is challenging but rewarding as with every Tantrum you trigger on him you quit some distance.
You are right that Cannibal that camps is bad. However you suggest a nerf to his baseline ability which is quit fine.
Most complains about him being able to down multiple survivors have to do with camping. This issue needs to be solved on its own. Other complains about his multi-down are from greedy people who sit on the generator without Sprint Burst when Cannibal walks up to them reving his chainsaw. This was bad gameplay and should be punished.
His ability does not last too long. This is not a fact it is your personal perception. He does not close gaps instantly, he slows down when he revs that chainsaw...
Long story short: Camping Bubba = Camping problem, not Bubba problem. Trying to run Bubba as you run a Wraith = Bad gameplay, punishable by getting chainsawed. AoE insta-down = punishment for greedy survivor, learn to split up (good tactic anyway to apply maximum pressure on the Killer).
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I do not think that one should be given out as a compensation for the other. They address different problems and should be evaluated on their own.
A different version of Borrow Time would be a good option. Maybe a Borrow Time that removes collision from the survivor so that he can escape for sure and does not abuse it for Borrow Time bodyblock-plays. The goal here is clearly to remove camping and that goal I support.
I feel different about Corrupt Intervention however. While this is a good idea to slow down the early game this can quit easy push Killers like Hag over the edge, not to mention it would benefit Nurse, Blight and Spirit just as much and those Killers do not need help. If we introduce a basekit mechanic to slow down the early game we should think about Killer specific abilities or a Killer specific stat.
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@hiken said:
the rest who did all gens are the skilled ones and will go up :(
An why do you want to go up?
Not to mention: The other players did nothing wrong, hammering generators while you run is the way to go. There is no reason for them to go down.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762551#Comment_2762551
I... what? When did I ever say you shouldn't be doing gens if someone is getting tunneled for 5 gens? Thats exactly what you should be doing. That doesn't make it skillful though, just not-braindead. The entire argument that I (and most people) have is that the game's metrics of skill do not, in fact, account for skill, especially with his outlook. They assume skill must have been involved because the outcome is favorable.
Right, you did not.
Just as I did not say that "survivors who managed to hold M1 for ~5 minutes and then run out the exit gate unopposed are clearly much more skilled.". Just because I say A is false does not mean I say B is right. You never said that I should leave generators. This was just for showing the hole in the argument.
Now I do not care how many people make an argument. Just because 100 people say 1+1=3 does not make it true.
The problem we have comes form the assumption that it should be a "skill based" matchmaking. I suggest a rebrand "kill based" matchmaking would be much better. True it does not measure skill as much as we want. But what results does it archive?
As said: The camping Bubba will face the sweaty 4 person SWF. The chilled Clown who plays for hooks will go up against chilled 2-2 lobbies and it is fair because both sides have the same premise of putting "fun" over "winning".
Skill should not matter here because clearly the Clown shows off more skill than out friendly Cannibal. However would you want their positions changed?
People say they want to put opponents of equal skill against each other. However that would only result in a fair match if both sides do not hold back and bring their absolute best. 4 person SWF with full mambo-jumbo against meta-nurse with no holds barren and we can put the opponents together by measuring skill.
Not so for out clowny friend. Even if he is tons more skilled his self set boundary when playing against an equally skilled opponent will have him crushed before he can even whip his knife a single time.
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@buzzaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762590#Comment_2762590
You want skilled players to against equally skilled players. Someone who consistently 2-hooks everyone is a good player and should be placed against other good players. The end result alone is not a good reflection of that. Especially in asymmetrical game where both sides have different objectives. With the current system an AFK player gets the same MMR rating after the game as someone who 2-hooks everyone and is 4 hooks away from a perfect game. You have to at least include some form of how well a player has been doing in a match. Im not saying kills shouldnt matter, but hooks should matter equally.
Why do you assume that I want this?
You can be a skilled player going up with no perks against a medium good Killer (me) with perks and our match could be fair because of this. If you talk about a "fair" match you have the problem that you make an assumption what is "fair".
You leave out equipment and self set boundaries.
Getting 8 hooks without tunneling is such a boundary. Same if you refuse to use certain Killers or certain perks. Hell, even survivors set boundaries and do not use Stiptics or Syringes that often even thou this would massively improve their performance.
I would agree if hook were counted if you kill the survivor in that trial. Like "bonus points" if you manage this. A perfect game 8 hooks built into a 12 hooks/4 kills could give more reward her.
However coming back to my assumption: Isn't it a self set boundary to get 12 hooks?
And to illustrated: Should I as a Killer who gets 0 kills but 4 hook while using no perks get more points than a full meta Killer with 8 hooks? After all my boundary made it more difficult to archive even half of what the other Killer did...
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@Astral88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762441#Comment_2762441
The radius got already nerfed. So why nerfing it again, just cause you've a problem with it? That just makes no sense. I'm absolutely not a fan of selfish ppl. You want to take something relevant from players, just cause you cannot deal with it. The perk as it's own is fine as it is rn. There's a lot of unfair things on killer side which has to be fixed too, if you gonna face it from that side. There's a lot of awesome killers who just shreds other SWF teams while they use CoH. This sour tears are so annoying...
First of all you assume I am selfish. While you are correct, you made that assumption on the wrong premise. This is just a quick ad personam and already shows where you are going: Accusations without any prove given.
My purposed change to Cycle of Healing was to change it down to 16m. I have, time and time again argued that Boon: Exponential should go up to 32 meters. This is part of my agenda to make Boon radii and Exhaustion perks more variable with their values to adjust them better. Also note that I never called for a decrease of the healing value.
You also assume that I can not deal with this based on no reason at all. Sorry, but you never saw me playing and I certainly did not say that I can not deal with a Cycle of Healing. However "being able to deal with something" and something being to strong are two different points.
Survivors can deal with Hex: No one escapes Death. It is too strong non the less.
Next bring up "but what about Killers unfair things". This is not the topic. We are talking about Cycle of Healing. Do not try "us vs them" with me.
Sour tears where only shed about the amount of fallacies in your comment.
Try better next time.
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@Labrac said:
I don't understand nerfing a killer now because of "high MMR". By that logic Pig should have been massively buffed a long time ago but in theory they are satisfied with her to the point they think an addon pass to her is enough, meanwhile Blight gets a buff every other patch.
And that is the neat part: The statement is that they just nerf for the higher level. How bold of you to assume that they would buff for the high level as well!
@SunsetSherbet said:
Yes I am confused why they are nerfing Twins because "high mmr they are too strong" when previously they said they aren't going to balance for high MMR. So now, they are, but they're gonna nerf killers that dare get kills at high MMR? lol
This sounds a bit like a double standard at first. However there is a single component lacking: Killers are easier tuned than survivors. With the Killer you have just one character, one player and one set of powers. There is no interaction between 2 Killers.
Meanwhile survivors differ very much. If you nerf say, SWF, you impact lobbies of 2-1-1, 3-1, 1-1-1-1 as well and the nerf hits the last lobby the hardest. If you change anything that offers cooperation the results become very muddy very quick while with Killers you can just play around with number and have a clear "cause and effect" view. Nerf add-on x by y%, see how the win rate changes...
For survivors "nerfing add-on x by y%" would result in at least 4 different results who can overlap. This issue with communication being there to make body-blocking (Mettle of Men) and other stuff strong is huge. A clear "cause and effect" can only be archived for SoloQ survivors in my opinion.
So they change Killers because this is easier.
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@buzzaman said:
Patrick, the leading game designer, has openly said that if you get 9 hooks as killer, your MMR shouldnt be adjusted at all because you didnt kill anybody. Because in BHVR's mind Kills=Skill=MMR. This not only shows they have no idea what a skilled player in their own video game actually is, its also shows they have no concept of what MMR is.
If you play a match as killer and get 9 hooks you did great. Full stop. Yes you might not have killed anyone, but that exactly where an MMR is supposed to do the adjustment. MMR looks past the game result which can be inaccurate for actual skill, and determines how you got to this result to adjusts your rating accordingly. This is the prime example why this CAN be a great thing. The facecamping bubba who 2ks is apparently more skillful than the huntress with 9 hooks.
This would also be a great addition for game health. If people knew going for chases and hooks gets you further in MMR, less people would camp or tunnel , cause they dont need to. The fact that the devs dont understand this simple concept amazes me.
Quick math: 4 survivors, 3 hook stats, die on 3. state.
How did you not kill anybody if you get 9 hooks?
But aside from that. Would you be happy if we just call it "Kill Based Matchmaking"?
You also assume that I want to increase my MMR. That is not the case at all. I also do not want the facecamping Bubba go against even worse survivors than me. If I can not deal with him, how are they supposed to handle this?
With the current system facecamping Bubbas as well as sweaty SWF squads go up the ladder and chilled players go down. With various shades of grey of course. Bubba will meet his equal and the chilled players who play for hooks as well...
So...where is the problem?
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762504#Comment_2762504
You're completely missing the point of the critique. If being able to run the killer for 5 gens and then getting one hooked by being facecamped while the other three leave isn't skillful according to SBMM... you are also saying the survivors who managed to hold M1 for ~5 minutes and then run out the exit gate unopposed are clearly much more skilled.
Its literally an ends justifying the means argument and a really bad one at that. Take the word skill out of the equation if you're not even going to attempt to adhere to it.
Okay, let me do the same thing to you, you did to me with this post...just to show the fallacy of one of your statements...
So you are also saying that while you are looping the Killer I should not hold M1 and slam that sweet generator? Okay, noted. Next match I will do fancy stuff like cleansing dulls, opening chests and try to tank a hit even thou I am pretty ######### at looping. If that is what is more appreciated...
What I am saying thou is that holding M1 on a generator is the right thing. Leaving you to die when you get facecamped by Bubba is the right thing and leaving the match when the Killer has NoeD and I can not find it on any totem I saw during the match is also the right thing.
Sometimes altruism is going to get you killed and egoism is the right call.
I never said that "team performance" should not get included in your MMR result. This is a team effort after all and the system should be improved in this point.
But tell me: Do you really want that number to go up so that you face more face-camping Bubbas with NoeD, Nurses with Infectious Fright/Ruin/Pop/Scourge, tunneling Blights with Alchemist Ring and other sweaty stuff like that?
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I am fine with the Q&A.
Nothing to exciting and nothing I did not anticipate.
Addressing cheaters is not possible and they explained the arms race character pretty well, not making fixed time tables is good and it seems that they have learned a harsh lesson here and announcing that things are "on the radar" is good enough.
People complain about the Hockey analogy...well, that was a given. Anything where people feel like "their skill" does not get a reward makes them feel bad. I will continue to ask people who talk about players just "warming the bench" if we should just exclude reserve players from receiving the rewards and the cup at the end of season if their team won...
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@Kill_Yr_Idol83 said:
You've got to be kidding me.
A significant percentage of your player base quit playing this past fall (myself included) due to boon totems and SBMM and all the devs could say was that they don't see a problem with either issue?!?!?!
SIMPLY LOOKING AT DATA IS NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU THE ANSWERS TO PLAYER'S COMPLAINTS.
The devs REALLY give the impression that they don't play their own game when it's player base has been complaining nonstop for months just how awful these mechanics have been implemented.
There is no counterplay with boon totems. That fact alone shows us how imbalanced they are. If a survivor can cleanse a Hex totem within the first 30 seconds of a match, a survivor's precious Boon totem should not be able to be relit an infinite amount of times as there needs to be limitations as well. Nerfing CoH to 75% is not going to change anything. Like not one bit.
And SBMM. How many players is it going to take to get through to the devs that basing this system around kills and escapes is NOT AN ACCURATE DEPICTION OF ONES SKILL AND THE MAJORITY US HATE IT SO MUCH WE'RE QUITTING PLAYING THE GAME OR DROPPING KILLER INDEFINITELY AND ANYONE THATS PLAYED ANY OTHER GAME WITH MMR, KNOWS THIS IS BULLS-IT. Period. End of story. To say otherwise makes us wonder why in the world is (I promised myself I wouldn't say their name) still lead game designer for BHVR?!?!
In closing, catering to the new playerbase (to rely on them to get addicted and buy up cosmetics) instead of taking into account your OG, diehard playerbase and how much we're telling you these things are killing your game, is an awful model for your company. We, the players, understand adding new features such as the ones mentioned in this post, take A LOT of work, time, resources and money BUT if it's not working, it's not working. Swallow your pride and find another way because it's becoming clear that Dead By Daylight, a game we all love, is dying and its community is getting more toxic by the minute because of it.
I was hoping this Q&A would give promise to me picking DbD back up since quitting last fall after 4+ years, 5000+ hours and countless hundreds of dollars on DLCs and cosmetics but alas, this answered nothing promising.
R.I.P.
Gauge your hatred...embrace your rage...
Anyway...they are nerfing "Boon: Cycle of Healing". This is the problematic Boon and 90% of the people complaining talk about this. Or have you ever heard somebody complaining about "Boon: Exponential" and how broken it is? With a valid concern and not "I could not slug 4 people while bells where chiming in my ear"?
I saw more survivors complaining about me bringing that perk than Killer players having a problem with it...
As for "SBMM". Just rename that thing into "KBMM".
People have a problem with their "skill" getting measured in something like this. Okay. Lets make it like with League of Legends: Your MMR is based on kills and escapes. Your skill gets measured in another metric and you can get a cool cosmetic for your Killer if you get S+ games x times. This metric then takes hooks into account...
Not relying on kills would make camping Bubbas derank, giving them even more new or bad survivors to camp and tunnel where people can deal with this even less. Chilled players get lower MMR than tryhards...I see no problem with this.
Why put a fair playing Legion who gets 10 hooks and 2 kills against a sweaty 4 people SWF who will bully him when you can let him play against other chill players...
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Soo....the short solution was to just increase the BP you get which is just a numerical tweak while looking for another long term solution...okay...
@Astrian : You hope it would take "years" to reach back to the point where we are now. However maybe this is a tainted view because we play the game for a while. When I started I was overwhelmed with the number of perks that were appearing and now I have quit a few (leaving out some on purpose).
If we talk about simple solutions: Why bother fixing the system. If you want to reduce the grind by 66% just increase the BP proportional. Even more simple because it only requires a numerical change without touching the Bloodweb at all.
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Why do you think he is wrong?
Just making fun about this quote does nothing and people who get fed up with it are mostly not bothering to talk about the point.
Let me illustrate this: Think about a Killer running "Hex: No one escapes Death", "Bloodwarden", "No Way Out" and "Coupe de'Grace". This Killer looses 5 generators and then Killers everybody on their second hook and you on your first.
Now, where you skillful to run the Killer for 5 generators? Maybe. Did you just play into his strategy all along? Yes.
Or to take a less extreme example: You finish all generators. The Killer is Bubba. He has NoeD. You ran him for 5 generators, your teammate was a potato that hide in a locker where Bubba grabt her.The gates are open. You now have to make the decision: Rescue your teammate or just leave.
If you die trying to be super altruistic, was you decision a good one? Should you maybe get punished for bad decisions even in the very end?
@Smuk said:
It is like the hockey.
If killer has a lot of shots (hooks) it doesnt mean that he is skilled. Only goals (kills count).
On the other side, if you as a survivor sit and warm a bench, and your team opens you exit gates and you manage to go out. You are equally skilled as them, just more as a observing ninja
If the goal is to escape...
What is more skillful? Run the Killer and get downed or let another survivor take the heat and just smash that generator M1 and stealth away?
I am not good at looping. I can stealth and I have a good coordination on the map. I can evade a Killer pretty good and outplay them with "Fixated" to no end.
What you call "warming the bench" is also not entirely true. If we stay with sports: You players in the reserve also get the cup if their team wins. Why? Because if the reserve plays well when their times has come they have an impact.
Or would you say that the reserve players should be excluded from the rewards for winning a season if they had little time to shine?
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762438#Comment_2762438
That's basically what happens. Someone's going to drop until they have an easy time of it, then bob back up to the limits of the sweatfest, then get knocked back down.
Good players that aren't using meta (and aren't absurdly good) are going to drop down until they're playing people they outmatch in every interaction, but could lose a game just because perks are that strong. It's still a case of one side being in a game they're actually losing the whole time.
Why do you think they are losing the whole time?
If I can only archive a "high MMR" with a Killers by using NoeD, Ruin and other fun stuff. Maybe I am just not that good at playing Killer and those perks are what kept me in the "high MMR". Now without that stuff I go down and face survivors who are at my level without my training wheels.
Sounds fair to me.
If survivors use strong perks to go up the MMR-ladder then...where is the problem? They escape more often if they use the meta and face Killers who can deal with that. Would be pretty unfair to let the Dead Hard-gamer face off against a baby Hillbilly all the time just because he only gets away with Dead Hard...
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Dying on your first hook should only happen if I get you last and never met you all game while killing all of your teammates. I sometimes do this to people who taunt me ingame thou...kill all their friends.
But overall, yes: SoloQ is a bit sad and mostly comes from a lack of communication.
If I think about the Cenobite we see the problem: Nobody feels responsible to get that cube. If there is just one survivor taking care of that thing I struggle and the match gets funny. However if I have my 4 soloQ potatoes who refuse to go for the box or even worse, run to the box while I chase them, the match goes downhill in seconds.
I can watch survivors "teams" shattering when I hook the one person who took care of the cube all time. Usually resulting in another "I kill all of your friends"-scenario where I let the cube-doer escape...
SoloQ is going to get some coordination buffs soon hopefully. This is no fun for me either unless there is a good loop or stealth player that challenges me in the 1v1 scenario.
However I only thing that buffs should be aimed at soloQ players. Maybe in the form of more luck for their first hook escape or something at first, but a more significant buff to their survival as long as they play without friends...
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They still took the wrong way to fix this...
They should have just changed the radius of CoH down to 16m. This would have made it so that Killers find the Boon and the healing survivor with more ease as well as fix the issue of multi-level maps.
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@Laluzi said:
I fail to see how 8-hooking the survivor team at 5 gens and then deciding to mercy them because they're obviously babies, or looping the killer for 6 minutes and then dying to a facecamp while your teammates mill around scared, or getting 1 hook all game but copping 3 kills with NOED due to altruism, or playing well and then intentionally getting yourself killed in endgame collapse in order to get another teammate out the gate, show accurate renditions of skill with the kill/escape method.
Most of the cases where kills accurately reflect skill, the hook count/survival time/match time/things done in the match also follows up on that data. Yeah, if I kill everyone on first hook 1 minute and a half in, I clearly outskilled the other team, but you don't need to only look at 4 kills to know that. You can supplement that data with the speed of my chases. The amount of hooks I got versus the amount of time I spent chasing was super high. Meanwhile, let's say I have a game where 4 survivors escape and I got 6 hooks. If the game lasted 5 minutes, then I didn't really have enough time to catch survivors and my time-per-hook ratio's still looking pretty fair. If the game lasted 15 minutes, then I didn't perform well and I should lose more MMR than I would in the first scenario. Same as if I play survivor and die in three minutes after going down 10 seconds into each of my chases, versus if I die after having several 1-2 minute chases. Survivor in particular needs to look at match proficiency more closely because living or dying is so dependent on your teammates' performance, not just yours; it's very easy to end up in unwinnable situations through no fault of your own.
Meanwhile, I would argue that yes, the 3-hook 3-kill Bubba is much less skilled than the Nurse who gets 2 kills and 9 hooks. Partly because Bubba is way easier to play effectively than Nurse, but mainly because he's using a cheesy strategy that takes extremely little effort or know-how and the Nurse is essentially hard-moding herself by hooking evenly. Certainly the Nurse has won more chases (and avoided more potential saves, if applicable) than the Bubba has.
SBMM currently enforces that people should play cutthroat as hell (camp, tunnel, let your teammates die to save yourself), and that that's what equates to being good at the game. That's not a good thing for player enjoyment.
The question is: Do you want a system where that Bubba faces less skilled survivors?
The strange thing about MMR and it being based on kills and escapes is that it punishes certain playstyles. Camping Bubbas will go up the ladder especially if they use NoeD until they face more competent survivors who laugh at them and tbag at the exit gate because Bubby never got his down to camp somebody.
The Nurse who hinders herself by going for hooks will only get such opponents when she can archive the same results even with her limitations. Should this Nurse go against the mythical SWF bully squad or should she get more chilled opponents?
Same for survivors. Do you really want that urban evading, locker hiding weak-link of your team to go against even easier Killers who can not punish this? Or do you want that person to face the Bubba?
For me MMR works out because of those scenarios pretty well. Sweaty players get more sweaty opponents, chill player and people who do not use meta perks go against more chilled or less skilled opponents.
The fallacy is that they call it "skill based". It is not skill based at all. But it does not need to be to archive this result.
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762155#Comment_2762155
Problem is the other way round: people who play well, but don't get the specific limited win condition being checked for drop down in MMR.
Which means new players get stomped by people who aren't just relying on a specific tactic that can be worked around (like spamming a move in a fighting game that has a tricky but consistent counter), but people who vastly outclass them in all regards, they just weren't playing for the "right" goal in higher brackets.
Honestly I do not see how they get "stomped". If 4k lobby after lobby your points will go up again and you will be stomping less and less. You will need to goof around a lot to drop your MMR to get to stomping grounds again...
Now where is the problem?
If I play, say, Ghostface without perks and derank until I hit the potato bottom of the survivor base who just started the game. Do I really stomp them when they escape as 3 people on 9 hooks? Or did they have a close match and escape while having fun facing a Killer with no regression and finally getting something done...
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Gideon is a very...interesting map.
Playing Oni here against cocky survivors can be fun as and example. They still take their first hit and drop blood all over the place. I can absorb downstairs blood upstairs and with my power I shred pallets...dashing can be pretty impossible thou especially on the low loops.
Playing Ghostface is a 50/50. Downstairs i am pretty good. Sneaking up is easy, stalking (unless Spine Chill calls) is doable and so I can get downs. Upstairs I am a M1 knife man with sometimes no terror radius.
I like this map. Good looking, has the feeling and overall pretty interesting with its holes and loops. The safe pallets are needed for survivors however to not go down to quickly and I think they should just make them more playable overall. More points like the low fences on HaddonFun where you can hit a survivor over the fence would help...
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@gendoss said:
If SBMM really is based on skill like the devs say it is then making it visible to see your skill improve is not toxic. Almost every game ever that has a system in place that ranks your skill doesn't hide it. It's visible so you can see your skill improve, how much skill you actually have, and to see if the system is actually functioning or not.
If SBMM is inherently toxic why do they rank your skill and have fair matchmaking in the first place? It makes no sense.
Well I think this is mostly because they think that people will get into elitist things like "your opinion does not matter, your only have X MMR". Being at lower MMR for whatever reason can be pretty bad. I have experienced it at MOBAS and there people straightup bash you sometimes when you get into their lobby and are of a lower rank.
If we already have a problem with "toxicity" as some people claim then this should not get added to the game. It would only increase it especially if you could see other peoples MMR.
Now the question is: How do you evaluate your skill?
Lets come back to MOBAS. As you know League for an example gives you grades for your champion based on your performance. You get rewards for yourself (and your random teammates I think...) if you hit an S (with S being the highest).
While the evaluation of skill is pretty good for certain champions it lacks for other champions. Getting an S on a weaker champ or on a supporting character was much harder (at least during my day) than on a DPS or brawly champion. Support characters were even more likely to get their S when they choose to opt out their supportive role and just focus on damage...
However this "skill evaluation" had no impact on your standing and your ranking up. You could get an S and a shake of hand for this (loot) but your team could still choose to surrender 1v4 after one bad fight thus letting you loose. Points for your rank were gained and lost because of this.
This approach was interesting non the less because they seperated "Skill" from "Wins". For rank only the "win" mattered but you still had your "S Rating" to show off your skill. This rating could also give you cosmetics like taunts...pretty sweet if you were able to get one.
Maybe SBMM should have the same: Wins for "rank" and you take your points after the match for "skill". Seperating the S in SBMM and admiting a WBMM, win based match making...
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761581#Comment_2761581
I am not saying he should stay like what he is. But he is not on weakside. He is stronger than so much killers. Ofcourse Pinhead needs some love too. But there is so much killers weaker than him and unplayable. But what i would change about Pinhead for start?
- He will not break him own chains anymore.
- Survivors can not break chains so fast anymore. So Pinhead will not get punish because of used him power perfectly.
This would make him solid B or maybe higher i don't know. I would watch after changes. But anyway, we all know BHVR will look stats and then they will nerf him for high kill stats.
To be honest...I play Pinhead a lot. Like...a lot. He was a gift from a dear friend who knew about my obsession with Hellraiser.
Yes, he is weak in the chase and yes, he destroys SoloQ survivors. However mostly because they just refuse to go after the box. He also destroys new and low-rank survivors who refuse to go after the box even more because they do even more stupid things like "solving the box right next to Pinhead".
However for me he does not need a buff. Not that I would not take one.
Not breaking your own chains would be pretty sweet already. However I would not say that chains should take longer to break per se. Long range chains: Yes, perfect to reward my long range curved chain. Short range, no, I do not need this.
@TheOptimiser said:
Lol at Twins pick rate, nothing else to be said... The 4 Twins mains can be proud of mastering the rarest killer in the game... The Twins would actually be better if they have better add-ons, it's one of the most interesting killers in the entire game but the current state of them is atrocious...
Mastering them AND making them a beast at high MMR!
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The problem is that if you are a very skilled player in any team sport and your team does not perform well then another team will offer you to change to them. Usually skilled players get more money and teams from higher level will lure them, bringing together players with similar skill. This way an enviroment is formed where all individuals are at an equal skill level and then winning is all that matters.
DbD does not offer this because there is no "pre-selection". An equivalent would be if the system would look at your emblems and decide to offer you an higher MMR. If you take it you will get to the "better team" and here only win/loss matters.
However in professional sports the individual performance is also closely monitored. DbD would not do this as the equivalent would be that at high MMR the system would check your emblems and then tell you: "Sorry sweety, your emblems are so bad and while the team is winning you are playing like crap and we could play much better without you. Therefor we send you back to a lower MMR."
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Thank you very much for your hard work. I could not watch the Q&A due to work and was hoping for a summary.
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Ghostface on any Autoheaven map. They are so open you can not stalk for good. Even Ormont is better with the main building. Still you suffer...
Hillbilly on HaddonFun or a McMillain map. Those trees kill something inside of me with these branches and bouncing off a hedge with a chainsaw is just miserable...I rather play Billy on RPD than bumping into a hedge...
@ThiccBudhha said:
Am I the only one that actually likes the Game? Surprised to hear so many people treat it like Badham. Anyways, my least favorite is probably Legion on Badham because I just had a horrific experience there. Lol. It might change tomorrow if I get that map again.
Nah, I like it too. But I am no good for this as I also like RPD...
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't play Oni much, is he that really weak now?
I remember pre-MMR... he was praised to be one of the best. My main killer is Leatherface so yeah, huge difference
I do not think so. I still have tons of fun playing Oni and get my kill without playing very sweaty. However I have to slug 9/10 games to make something out of my power. Infectious Fright and BBQ are a must to snowball...
Oni is still very rewarding. One single mistake can turn the game around even with 5 generators finished. Survivors seem to have forgotten quit some of his counterplay and get cocky all the time. Oni is brutal in punishing those mistakes and exposing the weak link for blood is the way to go...
Just my personal opinion, nothing to make a definitive rating...
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Try to spray more. Plague as quit a lot of "ammo" so you can shake your head from left to right quickly to cover more space and get more hits. Especially while you are using her red vomit this can get you more hits. Also sometimes aim higher, her vomit flys in an arc.
Finally: Aim ahead. Sometimes lack and travel time in combination can get you if you aim right at the survivor. Be generous with the stuff...you have a lot to give...
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Yes, some voicelines would be nice. Not too many and some with strange conditions like "Doctor downing a survivor in T3 madness". Could work out quit nice.
Bonus points if the Killer speak in their natural language perhaps with accent.
Maybe even some voicelines of sale. I would pay for some, just like I would pay for different Mori animations.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758253#Comment_2758253
from my experience, it took me about 5 days to be average at him when he first came out which is around 15 games. Nurse, Deathslinger and Trickster are way harder mechanically intensive killers that need pinpoint precision on their abilities
Blight is 115% m/s killer that by default has normal m1 game unlike say nurse that moves at 96 m/s. Few tips if your struggling with Blight would be:
-Start by only using 2 dash tokens until your consistent at landing his blighted rush, Don't go for over ambitious dashes at start
-Attack with Blight rush early, Don't use his lunge as if your playing against dead hard.
-Don't use his power at loops at the start, Use his power between loops. After blight breaks pallets, Blight's movement speed is so fast that he often hits survivors before they make it to next pallet. His greatest strength is his ability to counter chaining tiles together and undermine survivor's sprint burst after a health state loss.
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Once you've learned his basics. Advance tips
-Start using 3, than 4, than 5 dashes more regularly in chases. Try to predict survivor's movement as you bounce.
-Learn hug tech, Recommend watching Otzdarva blight 50 killstreak. It shows various use cases for using blight's ability at loops, Hug tech is what separates mediocre blights from the best blights. Using blight's ability at loops is essential to mastering blight as it drastically lowers his chase time.
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In the end, Blight is all about timing. Once you know when and where to use his ability, Blight becomes more like playing musical instrument. He does not very much mechanic execution, Its bounce, bounce, hit. Flicking his camera angle into blighted rush(a lunge that slides along walls) is about as mechanical as he gets.
With Oni, Oni needs to understand tile strength in the game. Your m1 game is crucial important at Oni, more so than any other killer in the game. By the nature of his m2 being an instant down, Oni's power heavily excels in deadzones and having strong m1 game ensures you remove powerful resources from the map quickly to empower your power to clean up afterwards.
As previous post on thread, Oni has a lot of macro management in regards to survivors. Every m1 hit is 40% of your ability, so two m1 hits is 80% of your ability. You need to memorize the paths you walk as Oni as you create blood orb trails around the map in which you need remember so that you can fill remainder of his power gauge. Finding survivors quickly through process of eliminating is very important skill for Oni because he needs keep the momentum flowing. Every second your not in a chase as him is time that survivors can utilize to heal and finish remaining generators.
Getting to his power in timely efficient is only half the battle. Using his ability effectively is just as important. He has 45 second window in his ability. When Oni is his demon form, Survivors that are injured no longer drop blood orbs meaning that the longer Oni is in his ability, the more detrimental it is for him to get his next demon form. Demon form dash has 2.5 second start-up as opposed to blight's 0.5 second on hitting collision and unlike blight, Oni's looking/viewing angle while dashing is far more restricted. Experienced survivors can dead angle Oni's kambo making it far more difficulty to down them while Oni's demon strike requires surgical precision to curve properly around corners during fast speeds without hitting solid objects. Using demon form is race against time to do most damage as possible in shortest time span. This often results in slugging which forces Oni to manage risk vs reward in term of getting hook states vs disrupting survivor team.
As you can see, Oni is very deep and complex character to learn in order to optimize his kit. At the end of the day, why bother learning the complex hulk that is Oni when you can just press blight's ability every 15 seconds and move at ultra-fast speeds with similar levels of chase potential.
So my advice. Learn blight. Do not bother with Oni.
But Oni is just more fun for me. Blight does not have that buff body and lacks in the "bonk"-department when he downs somebody. Sure, bonus points for the fancy cane but then again, where is Blights fearsome roar and his red glow while rushing? Overall Oni wins.
Now to be a bit serious. Your analysis is quit right. I can not speak for the Blight part, I trust you here, but on the Oni part you are mostly right. Oni can not be played without a descent M1 game. I made the mistake of giving Oni to a friend who never played Killer before and he got mangled because he could not even unlock Onis power...
I would like to add that you have to walk a fine line. You do not want to down your first survivor that quickly, you want to get your power. Even if that means to "wast" the chase. You have to make the survivor believe that you are "bad" and eat some pallets until you have your power. Then comes decision making: Leaving the injured survivor can be the right play, let them drop more blood and down somebody on a generator.
Slugging, snowballing, using Infectious Fright for information if you can make it...faking where you are dashing, flicking...Oni has it all.
Also yes, Onis Demon Strike without dashing is quit the thing. Your camera turns very high and you have to look down, while also messuring the lunge that comes with the strike. While this can get you a down, this can also get you spinned very easy. However there are not that many survivor that deal well with Oni. Most play against him so rarely that they lost much of their skill facing them...his rarity makes it easier...funny...
Blight is by the way no doubt stronger.
Still Oni is a very fun Killer to play and I would not discourage people who have a good M1 game to pick him up. Also he is a fun Killer to face because you can outplay his power and you can have enjoyable chases with him.
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@lauraa said:
Had a ttv lobby so I decided to put on my Sunday Best. I had a feeling I'd get out gamered with Iron Will so I took preventative measures and slapped on Dried Cherry Blossom even though I suck with that addon.
Sure enough, a Claudette tries to make cheeky Iron Will plays. She was a good looper but she relied too much on her perk to carry her which is the reason she died.
I watch the stream and Claud was L I V I D the whole match. The Feng streamer was all like " This Spirits a decent looper! I sure wish I knew how to play against Spirit!" but Mr. Iron Will is just going on and on saying "addons. Addons. ADDONS. SHES RUNNING THE ADDONS" and said "This Spirit is cringeworthy at best"
I feel like this kind of a double standard here. I dont fault anybody for running IW, but why is it ok to have a crucial part of my kit invalidated, but when I choose to do the same thing, I am Hitler Reborn?
You weren't meant to spend the whole game injured with Dead Hard ready to go, but that exists so I just have to deal with it.
The only reason I feel compelled to use this addon is specifically for Iron Will. If people didnt run IW, I would never consider this addon. Spirits kit was designed around audio tracking, so all this addon does is force you to loop me normally. And plenty of people do just fine looping me with no Iron Will.
I'm not saying Survivor Bad, I'm just tired of constant double standards.
This addon does tremendously change how Spirit functions, but why do people obsess over this addon and say its busted, broken and shouldn't exist when the other side can just flip the script on you and do the same thing?
If knowing where people in Phase is is such a huge deal, then let's remove all Survivor audio and visual cues in Phase so all survivors are equal and perks are irrelevant during the phase.
People rather blame add-ons then their lackluster gameplay where they get carried by perks.
You have the same with Killers who run Pop goes the Weasl and Hex: Ruin and cry, when their hex gets booned and survivors use Repressed Alliance against the Pop.
Once you strip them off their little helpers the players are confronted with their own terrible mistakes and they would rather die than to admit that they have been outplayed. As such they make up excuses after excuses...
Don't let this get you. Enjoy their tears as this shows you that you did well. A good survivor can outplay you even with Cherry Blossom on after all. If you want to be a bit mean you can write: "Stop relying on that perk." and leave.
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I am not sure but...I think this here is the best option:
@ShinobuSK said:
Because they found out that there are still 5 people playing them and need to fix that
They have a problem with Twins in that they are not fun to play as or to play against. Most people dislike them for one reason or the other. Killerwise Twins are clunky and you can grab yourself a coffee after downing a survivor with Viktor, then clean the kitchen after the second down and play a game of chess or two and then come back for your switch between Charlotte and Viktor. Survivor wise you are on the ground and can hold M1 to recover while waiting for Charlotte to slowly walk across the map on Red Forest to pick you and your teammate up. If you do not have Boon: Exponential or more common UnbreakaBill it is now you turn to find something while waiting for the pick up...
While their design is pretty cool, the fact that these tons of delays exist make them hell for the game. Now until they fix them, they nerf them into the ground so that people play less against them, get hit less and never get to see the flaws...
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758207#Comment_2758207
alternatively, it can use the largest boon to encourage synergy and picking perks other than DH DS BT and 1 boon
Depends on your goal as a developer I guess.
You could use this technique on purpose to encourage a weaker Boon as a "medium" for a stronger effect. As the survivor would surrender two perk slots and the thingy can still get snuffed this is indeed a thing you could consider.
Still an argument to add different radii.
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I do not like farming that much. I rather play a chilled round where the Killer does their best and does not camp or tunnel. Most times they yield a much better BP result either way.
The only time I do not mind is when I have a quest that sucks. Then I take the farming to finish that quest.
As a Killer it is the same: I dislike farming. I slap one the cake and then go into the match. As long as survivors do not play the 4-minutes-game and just run away the results are quit good for me.
To cut it short: I dislike farming. Normal games without camping, tunneling and without finishing the game to quickly are much better.
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Yes, I take fewer regression perks.
Taking those lead to me having a simple issue: Sometimes the perk would carry me and not my skill with the Killer. Survivors on "low MMR" are not able to work their way around "Hex: Ruin" as an example. This lead to me facing tougher opponents until I hit a brick wall where my skill as a Killer was just not enough and perks where no longer able to carry me.
Once I noticed this I discarded most regression perks. I then played normally and lost quit a few matches until everything was adjusted. Now I think I slowly work my way up while polishing my Skill with certain Killers and I am having a blast.
As a survivor I notice an increase in Ruin/Undying/Pop/Tinkerer on Killers. Also NoeD appeared more often. However I never cared about going "full mambo" as a survivor anyway (Dead Hard/Decisive Strik/Iron Will/Cycle of Healing or Borrow Time). And as such this only has increase the knowledge about countering those perks (read: Gwinty now knows more totem spawns).
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@DatFastBoi said:
Now don’t get me wrong, I know Dead By Daylight is an asymmetrical horror game and that the fact that FoV in this game is restrained to 87 (weird number) is due to balancing, that said:
Most killer mains I interact with do want a FoV slider, or even just a Shadowborn buff to make the game look and FEEL better during long gaming sessions. A FoV slider would be preferable that said, since some people like the current 87 degree FoV, or don’t want to mess with their muscle memory.
Having to run a perk just to give you some basic QoL like FoV is kind of a bad design choice considering most games nowadays have options for it, even on console (Titanfall, Apex, etc…)
The game’s balance at the moment and the SBMM system doesn’t really allow you to run perks that give you QoL adjustments, and most people that want to try these perks out, just stick with their 4 slowdown perks.
Motion sickness plays an important role as to why I wanted to start a discussion. I actually do suffer from motion sickness and I feel kind of forced to run shadowborn, because not using it will make me feel sick after 3/4 games. And having to grind to be able to get the chance for it to appear in the bloodweb 3 times so I can play killers I’ve bought with my own money is taking me so much time, so I can only assume what some other members of the community are going through with this game’s infamous grind.
What’s your opinion on a possible FoV slider feature ? Do use shadowborn when playing as a killer ? And why or why not ?
I use "Monitor & Abuse" on certain Killers and the sliding FoV gives me a bit of a headache at times. I have no problem with motion sickness or other issues but it just gets me depending on my day to day condition.
Now I know certain Killers can get much out of a slight increase in FoV. Myers and Ghostface being the most obvious but I also know quit a few Blight, Oni and Hillbilly players who use Shadowborn to get an advantage during a chase. A friend of mine said that Shadowborn on Blight is like a drug for him, once he started to use it there was no taking it off.
Overall I am very much for a feature that enables more players to play this game. If this can be implemented without "buffing" certain Killers I would like it. Maybe something like a FoV slider and a rework of the FoV aspect of Monitor and Shadowborn would be in order.
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@jesterkind said:
While this isn't a terrible idea, I think the reason that isn't the way it is right now is because it'd be kind of unintuitive and difficult to gauge from the survivor side where a specific effect is active if you're bringing more than one boon totem perk at the same time.
That's not to say this is unworkable, I just think the UI would also have to be tweaked, either to show a series of borders in the overlay or just have more of a specific icon for which boon is affecting you at any given moment.
This could be solved by only taking the lowered radius into consideration, discouraging "rainbow-boons" and the resulting problems from happening in the first place. Depending on what Boons might appear in the future stacking effects could very much become an issue.
However Icons would also be workable: Think about how the games shows you "We'll make it" as an icon.
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@cutiekiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2757966#Comment_2757966
it's the least useful boon so OKAY even tho boons are really strong, honestly why not? if you get all 4 once and you can still get all 4 again why not having 2 uses?
Boons with different radii would add to the game. They in themself are not a problem in my opinion depending on their power. Cycle of Healing is too strong, sure. But I can think about many other "abilities" those Boons could offer that would be just "cool". Think about a Boon with 36 meters radius that shows you the aura of other survivors in the area...or a Boon with a 16 meter radius revealing the aura of the killer...
They very much depend on their radius for their power...
And Grim Embrace: High risk, high reward. If you can get to the second activation you have not killed a single survivor all game thus playing very "survivor friendly" and risking quit a lot of gen-speed and progress.
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@Sluzzy said:
I say too effective but you could also say they are overpowered, hence killers are overpowered.
Before someone comes at me that “Sluzzy, a 4 man SWF can counter those or good survivors can deal with it”. My answer: If it takes a perfect 4 man SWF to overcome something, there is a huge balancing problem.
One player should never, by default, simply win against an average team because builtin killer tactics are free and too strong. The devs might say it is a strategy, well I have an answer there too, it is an unskillful strategy that is too strong. The survivor side does not have a default unskillful strategy that gives a huge advantage. Survivors are expected to become and get a PHD from looping school before they can keep killers away for longer than 10 seconds. Casuals can’t deal with it and it drives away players. Stealth is almost non-existent so being seen by killers seem to be how everyone plays.
Now, I’m not about limiting killers. I believe strongly in big agency where players can play how they want as I feel that is contributed to DBD’s tremendous success but I feel like these killers strategies are simply too effective. When the game first came out, survivors were so much stronger so these killer strategies were warranted strong. But now that survivors are greatly nerfed over time, killers need adjustments. I am constantly facing killers winning because they camp or tunnel someone out of the match and the survivors are not compensated. Then in many matches the survivors give up because of an unwinnable way to win. The hatch and EGC mechanic are very unfair now.
Make the hook timer a little slower if the killer is camping. Make decisive strike cause the killer to lose the sense of sound so he can’t hear which direction the survivor is going after a strike. No scratch marks for 10 seconds after a successful strike. If the killer is stabbed, he could lose some of his senses for a little while. There is so much that can be done to deter camping and tunneling.
The Entity needs to help in these dire situations. If all four are slugged unnecessarily, why not give one a helping hand, especially at 5 gens still remaining. Is the Entity not feeding on hope or is that simply a lie? I am so tired of going into survivor matches and seeing steam roll and after steam roll. And these killers find it fun or would not want a challenge?
Decisive Strike was overnerfed and needs a buff now. It’s never been buffed, only nerfed. If it is actually labeled as an anti-tunnel perk, then it should be one. It’s not one. Meta killers ignore it and down them instantly again. It’s almost like a survivor with 3 perks and a tiny 5 second stun that the killer don’t even mind.
Not every game is a 4 man perfect SWF that can deal with these powerful killer tactics, there needs to be something done to help 96% of the games where it is overpowered. But done in a way that doesn’t make the perfect SWFs any stronger.
Wow, this is pretty decent.
First of all there should be a balanced 50/50 chance of outcome for any match that is played. However that should not come from "camping" as a "valid tactic" but rather be a base design around the more fun parts of the game: Chasing, hit-and-run, cool use of powers and so on.
The problem is that camping and tunneling is a low risk, high reward option. Same as when survivors pre-drop and hold shift+w. These options are boring because you rarely see their risk and thus write them down as unfair and yes, they are not good. Neither "shift+w" nor camping the first person to death adds to the game.
I also agree that the Entity feeds on despair and no longer wants to play with the hopeless. She is a malicious things and wants to torture the survivors. As such I never had a problem with "second chance" perks for survivors. I only have a problem when they abuse a "second chance perk" for something else (body-blocking with BT, often while complaining about tunneling when they then get slugged for this).
Decisive Strike was not overnerfed per se. The problem back than was that the game was unable to detect when a survivor was no longer tunneled and survivor were still able to use this perk for offensive purposes (abusing second chance perks, remember) like unhooking or finishing a generator in the Killers face. The question here is: How is it tunneling when you can run to an unhook?
I am fine with your idea for Decisive Strike. Let the Killer hit a fatigue like Legion or Nurse when you blow them with that shard of glass, I am also fine with no scratches, however keep the blood. There should be a difference between DS and Lucky Break. I would even go so fare to remove the time limit if we keep the limitation (no unhooking) and add another mechanic: Once another survivor is hooked your DS deactivates like when the time ran out.
For pure camping we need a different option and a more dual aproache: Punish Killers who camp while at the same time reward Killers who go hunting with somebody on the hook. This is the reason I like "BBQ & Chilly" as well a "Hex: Devour Hope" as both encourage this. Just slowing the hook timer would not do this justice as the person on the hook is still getting the short end of the stick.
Also you are right: The game can not be balanced around 4 people playing SWF on discord. There are too many greys like 2-1-1, 3-1, 2-2 lobbies. Most time I encounter 2-1-1, 3-1 lobbies and thus balancing around the rare 4 stack is just...unwise.
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@Pizzasauce said:
Everytime a killer gives me the hatch, if they're on the same platform as me, I message them and say thank you. Not once have I ever heard back. Which is FINE. I'm not saying thank you for the validation. What I'm wondering though is, am I doing something I shouldn't? Should I just take the hatch and be done with it? I don't know. What do you guys think?
I would not reply but I would smile about it.
To be honest I rarely response to strangers in online games. Most times this ends badly for me.
I also do not expect to get a "thank you" for giving hatch. Most people on console are not able to write and most people online just move on. I write "gg wp" or comment some actions when they were very good and then I move on.
So, for my part: Keep it up. It lights my mood. But do not expect me to write back.
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Well, it may sounds dumb but...
The counter is just to not slug. I do not know how Killers do this in my survivor games but almost every times I use Boon: Eponential or Unbreakable they never slug me or a teammate. I was playing against an Oni the other day and not even he slugged!
Unbreakable is fine for me. It is mostly in the nature of the survivor perks to be "hidden" until it is too late for you: Dead Hard, Deceisive Strike, Unbreakable, Lithe, Deception, Deliverance...only a few perks have tells: Object of Obsession, Second Wind and No Mither...
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@BirdSpirit said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2757962#Comment_2757962
I literally said the gen should not progress.
No, you literally said that "The gen will not progress since you are no longer on it." which lead me to understand that the gen would no longer progress because it is no longer getting repaired. As a gen still can get progress while you are not on it, this would not solve the issue for me.
If this was a misunderstanding, I think we are fine.
However a "skillcheck2go" is still a pretty wonky idea when you think about it...you are repairing something stationary, some problems occurs and you quickly need to do something or the thing will explode. You chose just to leave and solve the problem on the way, no explosion happens...this sound wonky...
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Slinger would need something to give him either information or pressure. Sadly non of those things happened and now he just feels clunky and unfun to play as. And this is a problem: People would have less of an issue with the Killer if he was weak but fun to play.
Look at Twins and you see where this leads: Twins are a "strong" Killer. They can get downs, they can snowball and much more. However they are just so clunky that nobody has fun with them...
Now for Slinger you need some kind of "feel good" compensation. As an example would be that the Old Boy gets more range then longer he holds ADS.
However sooner or later you have to address his lack of map presence...he is now a 110% Killer who lacks mobility and has no other way to apply pressure...sad...
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This happens very rarely and to tell the truth they do not even need to be SWF. Good survivors will take hits for they mates either way and use Cycle of Healing to heal. Sometimes the best coordinated teams are not even SWF but rather 2 x 2 lobbies where the people are just, you know, good at what they are doing.